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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-27

---Logopened Thu Aug 27 00:00:30 2009
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02:18<Terkhen>good morning
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05:37<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
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08:34<@Belugas>hello
08:34<tdev>hi
08:34<planetmaker>ho
08:35<@Rubidium>hu?
08:35<@Belugas>haaaaa
08:36<planetmaker>he
08:36<planetmaker>:-P
08:36<planetmaker>hö, hä, hü?
08:36<@Belugas>hehe
08:38<planetmaker>Belugas, I recently checked your music folder. I found a nice addition :-)
08:38<planetmaker>13th August or so. Nice one
08:38<@Belugas>the thin lazzy one?
08:39<@Belugas>we did had a jam session yesterday. was good fun. still need to extract what can be extracted
08:39<planetmaker>yeah, I think so. Chill-out music. But I was tired and it fit my mood when I listened
08:39<@Belugas>on peter's behalf and mine, we thank you
08:42<@Belugas>mmh... my boss thinks about sending me to work on site, in the US, for a week
08:42<@Belugas>in Cleveland
08:43<planetmaker>he... is that good or bad?
08:45<@Belugas>well... let see...
08:45<@Belugas>been separated from wife and kid for a whole week...
08:45<@Belugas>been separated from my guitars for a whole week...
08:46<@Belugas>having to work on a computer for a whole week, even in hotle room...
08:46<planetmaker>:-P
08:46<@Belugas>having to eat food (that's food???) that you have no idea who and how it was cooked...
08:46<@Belugas>sleep on a stranger's bed
08:46<@Belugas>ho.. there is suppsoed to be a pool in the hotel!
08:47<@Belugas>i guess he wold not really appreciate me carying my guit and recorder over there...
08:47<planetmaker>why not?
08:48<@Rubidium>Belugas: isn't there like a NIN museum in Cleveland?
08:49<@Belugas>huu???
08:49<@Belugas>there is?????
08:49<@Belugas>hoooooo....
08:49<@Rubidium>I don't know
08:49<@Belugas>planetmaker, because he knows i can't resist plaing when there is a guit lying around...
08:49<@Rubidium>I just 'know' (read: found out) that NIN originated in Cleveland
08:50*Belugas checks
08:53<planetmaker>he...
08:53<@Rubidium>though if there's an exposition about them I reckon it'd be in the cleveland museum of art
08:58<@Belugas>a sub section in some dark corner of the basement would be appropriate then
08:59<@Belugas>with sticky humidity and some human rotting remains or something
08:59<@Belugas>how lovely hehehe!
08:59<@Rubidium>I haven't found any proof of a NIN museum though
09:02<@Belugas>bah
09:02<@Belugas>thanks for checking :)
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09:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17292 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: use unified ToPercent() function to convert fract numbers to percents
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09:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17293 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
09:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: AITown::GetLastMonthTransported didn't work as documented at all, make it return what AITown::GetLastMonthProduction did
09:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: mark AITown::GetMaxProduction as deprecated, AITown::GetLastMonthProduction returns now the value GetMaxProduction did
09:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17294 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (7 files): -Add [NoAI]: AITown::GetLastMonthTransportedPercentage and AIIndustry::GetLastMonthTransportedPercentage
09:50<@Belugas>spammer...
09:51<@petern>Belugas,
09:51<@petern>did i mention
09:51<@petern>that i'm on holiday next week
09:51<Noldo>does that mean more coding or less coding?
09:52<@petern>as it was directed at belugas...
09:54<@Belugas>hoo... mmhh... good :D
09:55<@Belugas>got to make some cleanup on my hd, will need place ;)
09:57<@Belugas>funny.. i was thinking about that monday: "i have not seen peter going on vacation"
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10:59<Terkhen>hello
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11:00<@Belugas>hello Terkhen
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12:55<tdev>hm
12:55<tdev>do you have buildbot?
12:56<tdev>i rather mean: do you use buildbot
12:57<@Rubidium>why would we use that?
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13:04<tdev>Rubidium, thats one of the questions i would have asked ;)
13:05<planetmaker>he... a re-compile on every commit would keep the server busy
13:05<planetmaker>given the 35 minutes compile time for the CF
13:05<@Rubidium>make that 45
13:06<@Belugas>42
13:06<@petern>40 of them for os x?
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13:06<@Rubidium>2369 seconds
13:06<@Rubidium>@calc 2369/60
13:06<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 39.4833333333
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13:07<@Belugas>would it rise again?
13:08-!-lobstar is now known as lobster
13:09<@Rubidium>hmm, buildmaster won't even work nicely for OpenTTD's compile run
13:09<@Rubidium>it'd make the website incredibly slow during the first ~20 minutes of the compile
13:10<@Rubidium>because it assumes all build slaves are different machines
13:10<@Rubidium>which isn't quite the case
13:11<@Rubidium>the compile farm run could be made ~1 minute faster by shuffling the order at which stuff gets scheduled, but that's quite a lot of work for no real benefit
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13:16<kadmoz>question: is there no "unified maglev" in openttd?
13:16<+glx>not needed*
13:16<+glx>all railtypes are available
13:16<kadmoz>ah i see
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13:19<@Rubidium>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44910 <- ghehe :)
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13:20<planetmaker>lol
13:21<PeterT>haha
13:21<@Rubidium>though I think putting him on your car is stupid
13:30<Chris_Booth>what noise does a cow make when it is hit by a high speed train?
13:33<Xaroth>thud
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13:41<Chris_Booth>moof
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17295 /trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 6 changes by mtxd
13:49<OwenS>"X is now known as X - Whos idea was it to take a 'short' 22 mile walk! Oww." lol
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13:55<@petern>What?
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>exactly what i was thinking.
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>plus trying to calculate in my head what 42km is in miles...
13:56<nicfer>one question, would be possible to make a 0.7 version of opensfx?
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>no.
13:57<nicfer>I've tried renaming opensfx.cat to sample.cat but nothing
13:57<planetmaker>no
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>0.7 does not have support for loading that kind of sounds
13:57<nicfer>renaming doesn't work?
13:58<planetmaker>nope
13:58<planetmaker>different file formats
13:58<nicfer>then you should had changed the extension
13:58<planetmaker>why?
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>"i tried renaming my 720p.x264.mkv files into .vob, but my dvdplayer won't play them!"
13:59<nicfer>for preventing those kinds of troubles
13:59<nicfer>why does mp3 files have a different extension than ogg ones?
13:59<nicfer>different formats...
14:00<Timitry>For preventing those kind of troubles, there probably is a note around "Only for r1xxxx and upwards, not for the 0.7 stable releases"
14:00<planetmaker>why are all kind of versions of word and even plain text files called *.doc?
14:00<nicfer>logical, isn't it?
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>why should they? everything would be much easier if they were called .music and .video
14:01<Timitry>Good point, i think you don't even need file endings on linux-based os, do you?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>the file extension is of next to zero relevance for the decoder
14:01<Timitry>At least that's what i read somewhere someday... But i'm just a Win User ;)
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>all file information is usually in the header of the file
14:02<planetmaker>Timitry, I don't need them, yes
14:02<@petern>Timitry, allegedly. everyone keeps them, because it's convenient
14:02<Yexo>Timitry: you don't _need_ them on windows either, it just makes life a lot easier
14:02<Timitry>hehe
14:03<Timitry>Gonna watch "Once Upon A Time in Mexico" Now :)
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>the file extensions help stupid file pickers to sort and filter them, but all sane programs use the header information
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>lots of programs just use zip as their "file format", and just give them another extension...
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>(at least Open Office 1 did this, i don't know if they changed that)
14:05<@petern>well, peeking the file works individually
14:06<@petern>but it's a bit slow when scanning directories or complete file systems
14:06<blathijs>Files should just all have a content-type and content-encoding attribute, instead of trying to encode that crap into the filename...
14:10<@petern>that never caught on
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14:14<blathijs>petern: No, which is a shame...
14:14-!-PeterT is now known as the
14:17-!-the is now known as PeterT
14:19<@Belugas>that was a very clever nick change :)
14:20<blathijs>It probably made sense in another channel :-)
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14:50<OwenS>orudge: Any chance of blocking ads from evonyonline.com on tt-forums.net?
14:51<PeterT>shouldnt you ask that on #tycoon?
14:52<Xaroth>lol, that looks like travian, only worse
14:52<OwenS>PeterT: Perhaps, but that would involve joining another channel
14:52<OwenS>Xaroth: I guess you haven't seen their borderline pornographic adverts then? :P
14:53<@orudge>OwenS: any particular reason?
14:53<@orudge>what do they look like, etc?
14:53<OwenS>orudge: http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/ads?client=ca-pub-4357758776393046&format=728x90_as&output=html&h=90&w=728&lmt=0&channel=3896256095&ad_type=text_image&ea=0&color_bg=FFFFFF&color_border=FFFFFF&color_link=0000FF&color_text=000000&color_url=008000&flash=10.0.22&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tt-forums.net%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D29%26t%3D44761&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tt-forums.net%2Fviewforum.php%3Ff%3D29%26sid%
14:53<OwenS>3Deb83d8712b07084c54c5bb77f786d977&dt=1251398939121&correlator=1251398939123&frm=0&ga_vid=1566316184.1251398939&ga_sid=1251398939&ga_hid=1652318224&ga_fc=0&u_tz=60&u_his=2&u_java=0&u_h=1024&u_w=2304&u_ah=1024&u_aw=2304&u_cd=24&u_nplug=4&u_nmime=242&biw=1241&bih=861&fu=0&ifi=1&dtd=9
14:53<@orudge>erk
14:53<OwenS>Grr overly long URLs
14:53<blathijs>OwenS: Yeah, I've still not figured out if they're really a fantasy MMORPG or a dating service :-)
14:53<@orudge>ah
14:53<@orudge>is that the one with the breasts?
14:53<OwenS>Yes :p
14:54<@orudge>I've seen those all over the Internet recently
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14:54<@orudge>hmm
14:54<[wito]>apparently it's an MMORPG
14:55<[wito]>that has *nothing* to do with bodacious babes.
14:55<@orudge>not sure if I can block them as such... I think I can block particular keywords
14:55<Sacro>it's a copyright violation waiting to be sued
14:55<@orudge>however
14:55<@orudge>maybe people are actually clicking on them ;)
14:55<@orudge>and bringing in money
14:55<@orudge>"ooh, norks"
14:55<OwenS>orudge: Apparently with AdSense you can block ads for particular sites?
14:55<Xaroth>OwenS: I have, I find them amusing
14:55-!-Audigex [~audigex@78.148.231.188] has joined #openttd
14:55<[wito]>also, at the rate they are evolving, they'll be actual naked ladies by the end of october
14:56<tdev>lol
14:56*Sacro hugs adblock+
14:56<Audigex>haihai
14:56<tdev>i also added blocked sites to our adsense list
14:56<tdev>nvm
14:56<tdev>gn8
14:56<OwenS>They've become well known enough PopCap have ridiculed them: http://www.bruceongames.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/popcap-evony-advert.jpg
14:56-!-tdev [~tdev@p508ECEA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:56<@orudge>:D
14:57<@orudge>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=evony+adverts&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
14:57<@orudge>nice
14:57-!-`Fuco`` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd
14:57<Sacro>it's ripped its graphics from Age of Kings
14:57<Sacro>http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Evony-Plagiarism-Spot-The-Difference
14:57<@orudge>http://www.lazygamer.co.za/general-news/a-history-of-evony-ads-the-insanity-continues
14:58<@orudge>that is quite ridiculous
14:58<Sacro>orudge: stop fapping then :P
14:58<@orudge>I want to play AoE now
14:58<Sacro>or for more fun - http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=11313
14:58<Sacro>look at what you could actually win!
14:59<Sacro>admittidly the first one is actually rather nice, it gets worse though
14:59<Sacro>orudge: me too
14:59<Sacro>OpenAoE!
15:00<OwenS>"Evony, thanks for showing us what it means to take advertising on the internet to the absolute rock bottom ... then dig a sub-basement under that, and keep on digging until you reach the white-hot molten core of the Earth."
15:01<Sacro>http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu222/daisuke101_photo/IMG_4081.jpg <- oh I dunno (snsfw)
15:01<OwenS>Sacro: That relly that much more NSFW than their actual adverts?
15:02-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEa6be.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:02<blathijs>Hmm, I hadn't seem them past take 5 :-)
15:03<Sacro>I only know them through reddit
15:03<Sacro>adblock hides everything like that
15:03*Sacro considers playing Evony
15:03-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:04-!-Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0D556.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:04<OwenS>Sacro: According to review... Evony is a game for those willing to toss large quantities of cash in the direction of the same people who create that mountain of "WoW Gold" spam :p
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue wtf you people are talking about...
15:07<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Adverts which look somewhat like this: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/evony-ad-6.jpg (Probably NSFW)
15:08<Sacro>zomg boobies
15:08<OwenS>They've also started with these now: http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/atoms/24/8d/d1/50/248dd150e15ffaa25d882a634502c05c.jpg
15:08<Sacro>Why not just get over it and post a naked lady
15:09<OwenS>And this advertising for what's essentially an RTS...
15:09<Alberth>OwenS: I'd never guess that :)
15:09<@Rubidium>rail transportation system?
15:09<@Rubidium>or road transportation system?
15:10<planetmaker>real time strategy
15:10<Alberth>planetmaker: that would be off-topic :p
15:11<@Belugas>English question : is it "The Discount Request >>have<< been submitted to HO" OR "The Discount Request >>has<< been submitted to HO"
15:11<@Belugas>?
15:11<Sacro>actually
15:11<OwenS>Belugas: has
15:11<@Rubidium>has
15:11<Sacro>George's LV4 set isn't much better
15:11<Sacro>Belugas: has
15:11<@Belugas>gracias people
15:11<Sacro>requests have, reqest has
15:12<@Rubidium>unless you forgot the s after requests
15:12<Alberth>but then "The" looks a bit weird
15:13<@Rubidium>really?
15:13<@Rubidium>The cars have been stolen / The car has been stolen
15:13<@Rubidium> / Cars have been stolen
15:14<Alberth>I'd use the last one, but with "The" is not impossible, I agree
15:14<OwenS>Depends on if your refering to a specific group of discount requests or not
15:20<@Belugas>one request only, for one discount
15:20<@Belugas>wow...
15:20<@Belugas>that was alot of arguing :)
15:21<Alberth>But in the end we agreed :)
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>http://ptrace.fefe.de/ebay-terrorbedarf.jpg <- that is really great... (german, but you could get the gist of it)
15:33-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.14.207.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
15:40<Xaroth>weapon grade plutonium?
15:40<planetmaker>:-O
15:40<planetmaker>sometimes similarity search is just a fail
15:41<@Rubidium>why?
15:42<@Rubidium>isn't dry ice and (liquid) nitrogen often used by physisists?
15:42<planetmaker>sure it is.
15:42<planetmaker>but c4 explosive and weapon-grade Pu rarely :-)
15:43<planetmaker>and I still wonder what dry ice rays might be.
15:44<planetmaker>lN2 isn't far from here, just 5 doors or so.
15:44<@Rubidium>still at work? poor you!
15:44<planetmaker>well...
15:44<planetmaker>yes, I should go home
15:45<@Rubidium>or hasn't paintball stopped yet and the only 'safe place' is the 'work place'?
15:45<planetmaker>haha :-)
15:45<planetmaker>na, it's over.
15:45<planetmaker>got quite humid under the mask... kind decreasing visibility ;-)
15:46<andythenorth>Jquery for the win.
15:46<andythenorth>But time to stop work now
15:47<andythenorth>I'm sitting in a nearly-empty flat. Moving house.
15:47<andythenorth>tomorrow
15:47<andythenorth>With a big truck
15:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17296 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix/feature [FS#3152]: allow rail wagons to be build when only el rail engines are available
15:50<planetmaker>\o/ yay :-)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>;)
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>which set has only electric engines?
15:54<@Rubidium>$CRAPPY_SET :)
15:54<planetmaker>2cctrainset has/had (accidentially) as first an e-rail engine. and I wondered.
15:54<planetmaker>so... $CRAPPY_SET :-P
16:01<planetmaker>and I didn't know I was kinda asking for a new feature there :-)
16:02*frosch123 asks for the feature to open the cheat menu via ctrl-alt-delete
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
16:02<planetmaker>:-)
16:02*planetmaker is for that
16:03<@Rubidium>what? you haven't realised that with MSVC you can attach to the process and cheat without the application figuring out?
16:05*frosch123 likes discussion between > 4 noobs, when noone else joins
16:06<@Rubidium>oh, talking about thedailywtf German edition?
16:06<frosch123>exactly :p
16:06<frosch123>btw. dbsetxl 0.9 has higher priority than newstations 2
16:07<@Rubidium>vapourware vs vapourware, that's like comparing infinity to infinity ;)
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>i was tempted to reply to that "will there be a newstations release" with "are you aware who you are asking?" :p
16:08<+glx><@Rubidium> what? you haven't realised that with MSVC you can attach to the process and cheat without the application figuring out? <-- true and it works very well :)
16:08<@Rubidium>question is: will it be released before duke nukem forever?
16:09<planetmaker>haha :-)
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>i thought DNF is officially cancelled?
16:09<Terkhen>it was resurrected again
16:09<planetmaker>I recall that, too. But forever is forever ;-)
16:09<Terkhen>:D
16:10<PeterT>Yexo, what happens when I try to apply freeform map edges to trunk?
16:10<PeterT>:)
16:10<@Rubidium>*or* are dbsetxl 0.9 and newstations going to be released once TTDP 2.5 is done?
16:10<planetmaker>PeterT, you'll get zillions of rejects
16:10<Yexo>PeterT: that patch is already _in_ trunk, why would you try to apply it?
16:10<PeterT>thats the whole point of me asking.
16:10<Terkhen>http://platformers.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/slash000.jpg
16:10<PeterT>why rejects pm? if its changing the same code?
16:10<Yexo>then see planetmakers reply
16:11<planetmaker>Rubidium, aren't they already at 2.6alpha?
16:11<+glx>PeterT: because it will not find the old code to apply the new one
16:11<Yexo>PeterT: because most likely the code isn't exactly the same anymore as at the time that patch was written
16:11<frosch123>don't know, maybe cb149 is 2.6
16:11<PeterT>oh
16:11<PeterT>ok
16:11<PeterT>that makes sense
16:11<planetmaker>and applying a patch twice never works well.
16:11<+glx>especially on new files :)
16:12<planetmaker>:-P
16:12<@Rubidium>planetmaker: alpha is no more than nightlies
16:12<PeterT>btw, Yexo, thanks for keeping a great changelog and version numbers on Freeform map edges patch
16:12<Yexo>PeterT: I have no idea why that is of you with use, but np :)
16:12<planetmaker>Rubidium, well... are there actually ever updates to beta? I honestly don't keep track of TTDP versions.
16:12<PeterT>Oh, you will see very soon Yexo
16:13<Xaroth>PeterT is known for his completely out-of-the-blue random remarks :P
16:13<@Rubidium>planetmaker: there are
16:13<DaleStan>There are commits, but patchman hasn't released a new beta.
16:13<PeterT>lol xaroth
16:13*DaleStan wishes he would.
16:13<planetmaker>DaleStan, can't you do so?
16:13<OwenS>DaleStan: Has Patchman returned from his dissappearence yet?
16:13<DaleStan>I don't have access tp ttdpatch.net, and I'm not sure I would even if I did.
16:13<planetmaker>you and Lackie and JGR seem the only contributors...
16:14<DaleStan>He materializes occasionally.
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>what actually prevents the current "beta" from being declared "stable"?
16:14<planetmaker>what does relate website access to software release?
16:14<OwenS>I noticed his profile said he logged into the forums relatively recently... but last post was ages ago
16:14<@Rubidium>it's like our release branches, but never ever having done the actual release, just think of e.g. the 0.7 branch where the releases/rcs are betas and no release has been made
16:15<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: 3 years of bugfixes?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>it always makes me sad when people come to the (german) forum, and they installed "stable" TTDP, because everything else is virtually impossible for a newbie to find
16:16<planetmaker>yup, that's sad then indeed
16:16<+glx>stable is 2.0rev1
16:16<planetmaker>yes
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, and that is 5 years old
16:16<planetmaker>many people only download stables.
16:17<+glx>but even 2.5beta9 is highly outdated
16:17<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: going strong for 6 :(
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>and 2.0rev1 is what you get offered when going to ttdpatch.net
16:17<@Rubidium>yeah, nastily with "Apr 19 2007
16:17<@Rubidium>12:23:45 GMT"
16:18<planetmaker>he...
16:18<OwenS>So in other words TTDP is in a nasty state of affairs for newbies :p
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>and of course you get flamed by forum-oldies, when you redirect them to the "better" openttd
16:19<@Rubidium>ofcourse, OpenTTD isn't a better TTDP
16:19<@Rubidium>(nor is TTDP a better OpenTTD)
16:20<OwenS>OpenTTD is better than TTDP stable though :p
16:20<@Belugas>not better. different
16:20<@Rubidium>that depends on your viewpoint
16:21-!-tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2F3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:21<@Rubidium>e.g. TTDP's bug compatability with TTD is way better than OpenTTD's, which is important for those that just want to play TTD on WinNT-ish platforms
16:21<@petern>redirect all requests for THE SUPERIOR OLD AI!!!!!! back to ttdpatch :D
16:22<OwenS>And I thought bug compatibility was a term only thrown arround w.r.t. Windows and WINE :P
16:22<@Belugas>lol
16:22<@Belugas>a cake for petern :D
16:22<@Rubidium>OwenS: no, also w.r.t. Windows and DOS
16:22<DaleStan><petern> redirect all requests for THE SUPERIOR OLD AI!!!!!! back to ttdpatch :D <-- Can do.
16:22<OwenS>Rubidium: I meant Windows and WINE as separate (though related) examples :p
16:22<@Rubidium>if you believe "program /h" is a bug
16:23<@Rubidium>'cause the first DOS didn't have directories
16:23<@Rubidium>and since then they use \ for directories
16:23-!-tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2E05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
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16:24<@Rubidium>or the special VM mode in (at least) win9x for Sim City
16:24<OwenS>I believe in the WinNT series it patches the game executable
16:24<planetmaker>hm... indeed _where_ are the nightlies, if I start on ttdpatch.net ?
16:24<frosch123>planetmaker: source code
16:25<@Rubidium>planetmaker: easy
16:25<@Rubidium>click on 'beta testing' in the news
16:25<@Rubidium>then there's a terminology and there's the link to nightly.ttdpatch.net
16:25<planetmaker>:-) both works. Thanks
16:26<planetmaker>he... TB and Mihamax provide nightlies.ttdpatch.net?
16:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: not 100% true anymore
16:26<@Rubidium>it's OpenTTD's compile farm that does
16:27<planetmaker>ah :-)
16:27<@Rubidium>and the binaries are hosted on OpenTTD's server
16:27<DaleStan>Nope. That site is NXDOMAIN.
16:27*DaleStan is being useless again.
16:27<@Rubidium>semantics :)
16:28<@Rubidium>or actually pm asking the wrong question :)
16:28<planetmaker>hm... :-)
16:28<@Rubidium>anyhow, nightly.ttdpatch.net just a front end that purely links to binaries.ttdpatch.net
16:29<@Rubidium>binaries.ttdpatch.net. 14245 IN CNAME binaries.openttd.org.
16:29<planetmaker>:-)
16:29<planetmaker>quite nicely interweaved, eh?
16:29<PeterT>Terkhan
16:29<OwenS>IN CNAME web.openttd.org. aka redundant CNAMEs :p
16:29<PeterT>did you look at your newest patch thread?
16:29<OwenS>AKA violates RFCs IIRC
16:30<@Rubidium>who cares? it seems to work for everyone
16:30-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
16:30<@Rubidium>it amazes me that ttdpatch.net is accessible over IPv6
16:31<Terkhen>PeterT: yes
16:31<OwenS>Rubidium: I would say "Really nightlies.ttdpatch.net should be in CNAME web.openttd.org" but I doubt you have access to their DNS :p
16:31-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:31<PeterT>sounds good?
16:31<planetmaker>DaleStan, but what does keep you (or any other active dev) to actually declare a version stable or beta?
16:32<Terkhen>I'll answer at the thread after I finish coding :)
16:32<PeterT>ok cool
16:32<planetmaker>then it'd be a simple asking to update the front web page instead of doing something himself for Patchman
16:32<@Rubidium>OwenS: the current situation allows us to move the binaries stuff and not our website without having to wait for patchman
16:33<OwenS>Rubidium: Yes but you're relying on client implementation details. Whether that matters or not in practice is a different matter :p
16:33<@Rubidium>or implement mirror rotation
16:34-!-frosch123 [~frosch@89.15.251.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:35<DaleStan>planetmaker: Mainly, I don't want to.
16:35<DaleStan>... ... I guess I feel like it'd be tantamount to declaring that TTDPatch is mine now, and not Patchman's, and I'm not that bold.
16:35-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:35<planetmaker>DaleStan, it would only be the step to accept the truth :-)
16:37<@Rubidium>technically the release manager doesn't need to be the supreme ruler of the project
16:37<DaleStan>Also, I feel like the 2.6 bugfixes all need to be checked and possibly backported 2.5 before declaring a stable or beta, and I haven't mustered up the energy for that.
16:38<@Rubidium>yeah, I can imagine checking 3 years worth of commits is an awful lot of (boring) work
16:38<planetmaker>he... that indeed.
16:38<planetmaker>but maybe differently. Let 2.5 be what it is... an open end.
16:39<planetmaker>But start with 2.6 stable and call nightlies 2.7 from now / then on.
16:39<@Rubidium>it's kinda why I'm now doing it weekly an keep a list of what's new for 0.8 and what is for 0.8
16:39-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-65-96-207-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
16:39<@Rubidium>3.0 ?
16:39<planetmaker>or 3.0
16:40<planetmaker>whatever :-)
16:40<planetmaker>after all, trunk has to be branched for a new stable release anyway.
16:40<planetmaker>Maybe that branch could be made before the experimental cargo dest stuff got in... but
16:40<@Rubidium>though, it's debatable whether /trunk is releasable due to a number of unfinished projects IIRC
16:40<planetmaker>you know better how stable that is / will be.
16:41<planetmaker>well. Then one could branch and pull out the worst again ;-)
16:41<@Rubidium>ghehehe, like PBS?
16:41<planetmaker>in that stable branch
16:41<planetmaker>probably. I wasn't around then.
16:41<@Rubidium>(in OpenTTD before 0.4.5)
16:42<planetmaker>:-)
16:42<planetmaker>Let me guess: since then you're more cautious about integration into trunk ;-)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>which projects are currently unfinished? the scalable-gui-revamp?
16:43<@Rubidium>that's the primary unfinished project in OTTD's trunk
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yeah, that was about the time when development of experimental features was pushed into branches
16:43<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I was talking TTDP then.
16:43<planetmaker>yes, I believe so :-)
16:43-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-26-71-125.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]]
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16:46<@Rubidium>although there are some other unfinished cleanup/rewrites too, but those are in a state where the code is perfectly releaseable (small steps really help)
16:47-!-asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd
16:47<planetmaker>:-)
16:47<planetmaker>But the windows re-write will have to be finished before 0.8?
16:47<@Rubidium>not fully, but it should be in a releaseable state
16:49<@Rubidium>although having it fully finished is preferred
16:49<asilv>Do I understand the code in function UpdateTownRadius(in town_cmd.cpp) correctly? Large towns don't have zone 2 at all?
16:49<asilv>also hi!
16:49<@Rubidium>as massive less code changes => simpler backports
16:51<@Rubidium>asilv: yes, that's right
16:51<DaleStan>Officially, the barrier between 2.5 and 2.6 is that the 2.5's lang/ directory is frozen.
16:52<asilv>hmm, I guess I and Irwe have to change our design bit
16:52<DaleStan> ... Except that 2.5 still has untranslated strings, so I'm not sure how frozen it actually is.
16:52<asilv>thanks Rubidium
16:52<@petern>hmm
16:53<planetmaker>asilv, still not fond of the idea of a public repository?
16:53<@Rubidium>planetmaker: don't push people, that only annoys them!
16:53<planetmaker>:)
16:53<@petern>ls
16:53<@petern>er
16:53-!-Timitry [~Timitry@22-92.stw.uni-duisburg.de] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com]
16:53<asilv>planetmaker: I don't see much benefit, I will release the source when the set is released though
16:54<@petern>my hg repos appear to have disappeared :)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>what's "er" for a command? :p
16:54<@Rubidium>petern: is that the new way to write luser/loser?
16:55<@petern>...
16:56<planetmaker>asilv, more eyes to spot problems and errors is the benefit.
16:57<planetmaker>and the possibilities for others to learn
16:58*petern wonders how to publish hg stuff now
16:59<@Rubidium>ask Yexo? Don't remember anything about changes
16:59<@petern>well since the unified user system i suspect
16:59<Yexo>nothing did change the last weeks, at least I didn't notice any change
17:00<Yexo>petern: your hg repos are still available here:
17:00<Yexo>http://hg.openttd.org/
17:00<@petern>ah !
17:00<@petern>they magically appeared
17:00<@petern>lol
17:00<@petern>unfortunately i can't modify them
17:01<Yexo>can you still ssh to the server?
17:01<@petern>yes
17:01<@Rubidium>the rights seem to be the same as Yexo's
17:01<Yexo>default-push = ssh://yexo@secure.openttd.org//var/repos/hg/developers/yexo/airports/ <- that is what I use in .hg/hgrc
17:01<@petern>ls: cannot open directory /var/repos: Permission denied
17:03<@Rubidium>Yexo: can you ls in that directory?
17:03<Yexo>petern: for some reason you're not in the vcs group while I am
17:03<Yexo>Rubidium: yes
17:04<@Belugas>and me, i'm not in the work group anymore!
17:04<@Rubidium>odd, cause your groups and petern's groups are the same except for Translators-Dutch
17:04<@Belugas>let's login to the commuters group
17:04<@Belugas>bye bye
17:04<@petern>bye sir
17:04<@Rubidium>petern: please relogin and try again
17:06<Yexo><@Rubidium> odd, cause your groups and petern's groups are the same except for Translators-Dutch <- how do you request that info? id doesn't list 1003(vcs) for peter1138
17:06<@Rubidium>I did groups <username>
17:06<@Rubidium>ah, Yexo != yexo
17:06<Yexo>now that group is listed
17:07<@petern>that works
17:09<Eddi|zuHause># ey-oh eyoh
17:09<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: k3?
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>what's a k3?
17:09<Xaroth>lol
17:09<Xaroth>K2 you mean
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>K2 is a mountain
17:10<@Rubidium>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_AZVw_1gm4
17:10<Xaroth>yeh but K3 is missing 1
17:10<@petern>yikes, rhythmbox is using 100% cpu :s
17:11<OwenS>petern: Amarok ftw :p
17:12<@petern>keep your nasty kde away from me
17:12<+glx>vmware is using 50% cpu
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIKc7og6WLY
17:13<OwenS>petern: Well it never hogs my CPU :p
17:13-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:14<asilv>planetmaker: I don't like releasing unfinished stuff, anyway the first public realease is going to be soon, and like I said I will release the code too
17:14<asilv>but thank for the offer
17:14<asilv>+s
17:15<@petern>OwenS, it's gstreamer
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no, that doesn't seem like the right one...
17:15<@petern>it's sample rate converter sucked
17:15<OwenS>=/ I've never had that with Amarok 2 + Phonon + GStreamer...
17:15<OwenS>Admittedly all my audio is 44.1kHz...
17:15<planetmaker>hm... imo it's got nothing to do with "releasing unfinished". But your choice
17:15<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so from who did they steal that song?
17:15<@petern>it's fine at 44.1, 48 or 96
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>if i had a decent internet connection, i could check out youtube links before posting them...
17:16<@petern>but it chokes at 88.2
17:16<@petern>which is... stupid
17:16*OwenS wonders how it would deal with 2822.4
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>petern: well, it is "optimised" for the "common" values :p
17:16<OwenS>88.2 is reasonably common :p
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17:17<@petern>yup, it's just 44.1 * 2
17:17-!-OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-0-0-cust196.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
17:17*Prof_Frink throws Ks at petern
17:17<@petern>i haven't calibrated my setup to the K-system yet
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: well, it's the right song, but not the right video... http://en.sevenload.com/videos/KN1ghGC/Die-Prinzen-Das-ist-alles-nur-geklaut
17:30<Terkhen>good night
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17:47<andythenorth>nfo...how do I use string code 01 to provide an x offset?
17:47<andythenorth>-1 * 1 04 02 7F 01 D3 "01 32 Coaster (Large)" 00
17:47<andythenorth>doesn't do what I expect
17:47<andythenorth>oh
17:48<andythenorth>-1 * 1 04 02 7F 01 D3 01 32 "Coaster (Large)" 00
17:48<andythenorth>works
17:48<andythenorth>misread the docs :{
17:48<DaleStan>Or "\01\32Coaster (Large)"
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>didn't we want to abolish x offsets?
17:51<DaleStan>Note that, for example, although "\1\32Coaster" works, "\1\FCoaster" is unlikely to be what you want. That latter encodes as 01 FC 'o' 'a' ...
17:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I find the offsets to be crazy talk. But I need to sort my ships out...
17:51<andythenorth>DaleStan: thanks
17:52<@Rubidium>can't you use callback/action2 "I don't know exactly which one, but the one used to get different graphics for the 2cc trains in the build menu"
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>i only took a short glimpse of the ships. my first impression is that they are probably too long
17:53<@Rubidium>to make the ships smaller?
17:53<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: like LV, but for ships, right?
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>making them longer than 2 tiles is asking for trouble...
17:59<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: making them shorter than 2 tiles causes player...requests :P
17:59<andythenorth>but yes the ships have some issues
17:59<andythenorth>with bridges, landscape etc
17:59<andythenorth>I'm living with it
18:00<@Rubidium>making them longer causes bug reports
18:01<andythenorth>ach well...with the coop make system it's easy to knock out the longest one
18:01<andythenorth>we'll see
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18:15<Audigex>quick question
18:15<Audigex>under the GPL
18:16<Audigex>if i modify the program, but don't distribute it, I don't have to hand out the source code do I?
18:16<OwenS>Nope
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>correct. you only ever have to give out the source code to people you gave the binary to.
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19:10<TrueBrain>[22:29] <OwenS> IN CNAME web.openttd.org. aka redundant CNAMEs :p <- don't talk bull, this is completely allowed, and not in any way redundant .. as in that case ALL CNAMEs are redundant!
19:11<@petern>it's a strange definition of 'redundant', i must say
19:11<OwenS>TrueBrain: I'll admit I made a mistake; the RFC doesn't ban CNAMEs to CNAMES but does say CNAME records that point to other CNAME records should be avoided (RFC 1034 section 5.2.2)
19:12<TrueBrain>avoided != wrong or in violation ;)
19:12<TrueBrain>but for sure it is not redundant
19:12<TrueBrain>(sorry, was skipping over the logs when I noticed that entry ;)
19:12<OwenS>I do agree with DJB when he says that DNS should have not included CNAMES but instead the DNS server should have resolved them however
19:13<TrueBrain>LOL!
19:13<TrueBrain>not really .. possible over multiple DNS zones
19:13<TrueBrain>(like in this case)
19:13<@petern>agree with DJB?
19:13<@petern>OUT
19:13<@petern>OUT OUT OUT
19:13<OwenS>He said the DNS server should have done the lookup at the origin server
19:14<TrueBrain>OwenS: lol, nice way to DDoS a DNS server
19:14<TrueBrain>no, I think that would be a terrible idea
19:14<TrueBrain>and who the fuck is DJB?
19:14<OwenS>TrueBrain: http://cr.yp.to
19:14<TrueBrain>(remember, DNS is intended for LOW bandwidth FAST lookup service)
19:14<@petern>TrueBrain, qmail...
19:14<OwenS>TrueBrain: Ok, your DNS server caches the record for it's TTL (Or half it for efficiency)
19:14<@petern>and that other thing
19:14<TrueBrain>OwenS: 'caching' by default is not the intension of a DNS server
19:15<TrueBrain>the idea is of him to fast serve things from static files
19:15<@petern>oh, daemontools
19:15<TrueBrain>so any 'resolving' or 'looking up' would be terrible
19:15<OwenS>petern: and TinyDNS
19:15<TrueBrain>petern: ah, tnx
19:15<TrueBrain>qmail .. the most unsupported tool ever .. 'it is finished'
19:15<OwenS>TrueBrain: Caching on the first request would not be particularly expensive
19:15<TrueBrain>yeah .. and therefor there are N+1 patches available :p
19:15<@petern>daemontools... because inetd doesn't work?
19:15<OwenS>TrueBrain: QMail is now Public Domain...
19:15<TrueBrain>OwenS: in complexity? Sure it would
19:16<TrueBrain>like you make httpds do all kind of funky shit .. wait .. they nowedays do :(
19:16<TrueBrain>OwenS: I don't care. I think it is stupid you consider your product DONE
19:16<OwenS>TrueBrain: He said this after writing his own DNS server and his own DNS resolution library. I tend to think that qualifies him to make such comment
19:16<OwenS>s
19:16<@petern>DJB's a kook
19:16<TrueBrain>OwenS: might be, but it defeats the IDEA of a DNS server .. how ever he implemented HIS implementation of that idea
19:16<+glx>TrueBrain: real 45m51.301s
19:17<TrueBrain>like saying authors of Apache have anything to say in the httpd branch based on their apache experience :p nginx, lighttpd, and cherokee proofed that ;)
19:17<TrueBrain>glx: AUCH!
19:17<+glx>and it's not an universal build
19:17<TrueBrain>OwenS: I strongly believe in simplicity of things
19:17<TrueBrain>'internal lookup' is not anywhere close to that
19:17<R0b0t1>Apache = not so great. Too much multithreading.
19:18<+glx>but I'm quite sure it's because there's no vmware video driver for tiger
19:18<TrueBrain>now a DNS server only has to accept a connection and feed data back
19:18<TrueBrain>nothing less, nothing more
19:18<OwenS>TrueBrain: He believes in the simplicity of DNS resolves rather than the simplicity of DNS servers.
19:18<TrueBrain>in DJB's 'idea', it would need to do SO FUCKING MUCH MORE :(
19:18<TrueBrain>R0b0t1: too much code.
19:18<R0b0t1>That too :d
19:18<OwenS>Apache sucks because it's ancient :p
19:18<TrueBrain>glx: possible ... I came a long way yesterday in OSX shit .. tomorrow I am going to try a local isntall, as I think I gathered enoguh shit :)
19:18<@petern>hhehe
19:18<TrueBrain>who knows that can speed up things :p
19:19<TrueBrain>OwenS: ancient != bad
19:19<@petern>incidentally, tinydns' data file is : separated
19:19<@petern>*cough* ipv6
19:19<TrueBrain>hehehe
19:19<OwenS>It's DJBDNS, woops
19:20<TrueBrain>OwenS: either way, if you base your opinion on one 'expert', you are as worse as the next guy :)
19:20<TrueBrain>read up what PowerDNS guys things of it :p
19:20<OwenS>TrueBrain: The PowerDNS guys agree with him on many points :p
19:20<TrueBrain>either way, DNS by concept is kind of bad :)
19:20<TrueBrain>'on many' being this one? :p
19:20<OwenS>Well I should point out it's a bit too late to change DNS now
19:20<Xaroth>nn all
19:20<TrueBrain>I can't imagine my life without CNAMEs ....
19:21<TrueBrain>night Xaroth
19:21<TrueBrain>AFXR for one ... I love that CNAMEs are there
19:21<Xaroth>o/ TrueBrain
19:21<TrueBrain>not some internal resolving ..... :(
19:21<TrueBrain>mailfilter MX level ... I love CNAMEs there
19:22<OwenS>But if given the opertunity... first thing I would do is get rid of it's crappy compression system which is worse than any general purpose algorithm and simultaniously more complex
19:22<TrueBrain>THAT you would get ride of in the DNS system?
19:22<TrueBrain>LOL! I think that should be the lowest priority on any list ;)
19:23<Xaroth>ugh i should actually go to bed
19:23<TrueBrain>HTTP SRV would be useful for OpenTTD at least ... :(
19:23*Xaroth puts the popcorn away
19:23<TrueBrain>Xaroth: you just said you were! HOP HOP!
19:23<TrueBrain>tomorrow is another big day :)
19:23<Xaroth>the discussion was too fun to watch
19:23<Xaroth>meh, tomorrow evo
19:24<TrueBrain>fun is the good word :)
19:24<TrueBrain>give EVO a big kiss from me
19:24<Xaroth>that would be quite.. impossible
19:24<TrueBrain>I ahven't been there in.... I can't remember when I was there last :p
19:24<Xaroth>but sure.
19:24<Xaroth>I left some info and stuffs in the other chan btw.
19:24<OwenS>I'd also like to shoot the DNSSEC people for producing a stupid unworkable system...
19:25<Xaroth>OwenS: create a new (better) system?
19:25<TrueBrain>for some reason my IRC didn't tell me :(
19:25<OwenS>Xaroth: DNS is pretty well entrenched :p
19:25<Xaroth>so?
19:25<OwenS>It also, in spite of it's cruftiness, works 99.99% of the time
19:26<TrueBrain>OwenS: tnx for the late night talk about useless stuff :) Now I will find my bed :)
19:26<TrueBrain>night all!
19:26<OwenS>night
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19:33<@petern>Xaroth, AOL keywords!
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19:51<Davelister>hello world
19:52<Davelister>!password
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20:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, sure.
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 28 00:00:32 2009