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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-08-28

---Logopened Fri Aug 28 00:00:32 2009
00:12-!-needles [~needles@CPE-124-185-2-21.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
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00:15-!-register is now known as needles
00:20*needles found openttd looking for ttd after 10 years... like a kid in a candy store ;o
00:22<R0b0t1>I got here through some obscure wikipedia/google collage of tabs.
00:22*R0b0t1 shrugs
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02:55<planetmaker>hehe.
02:55<planetmaker>I guess I ended up here also through some google-mania ;-)
02:55<planetmaker>and good morning #openttd
02:56<Noldo>morning
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03:03<Terkhen>good morning
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05:02<TrueBrain>morning
05:03<Markk>"Oh... guys? Don't stay in here all day. I had to take the batteries out of the carbon monoxide detector; it was beeping all night."
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05:10<@petern>..
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05:58<Eddi|zuHause>i'm here pretty much because my brother wanted to play multiplayer...
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06:00<Prof_Frink>I've always been here.
06:03<SpComb>who'se Prof_Frink?
06:03<SpComb>-e
06:04<Prof_Frink>I'm Spartacus.
06:05<@Rubidium>then who's Sportacus?
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07:34<TrueBrain>stupid OSX .. blegh blegh blegh
07:35<TrueBrain>always somewhere where it stops
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08:34<@Belugas>good day
08:34<@Belugas>where is my coffee? where is the coffee machine? where is the maker of the coffee beans?
08:34<@Belugas>I WANT COFFEE
08:35<Noldo>add 'MY'
08:42-!-Chris_ [~chatzilla@88-106-195-214.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
08:42-!-Chris_ is now known as AdditionalData
08:42<AdditionalData>Hi
08:45<@Rubidium>afternoon
08:48-!-Dred_furst [~Dred@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
08:51<@Belugas>so... coffee tank full? checked. Credit cards deployed? Checked. Test Scripts updated? Checked. Music available? Checked. Transaction Simulator loaded? Checked. Payment software loaded? Checked
08:51<@Belugas>will to go?
08:51<@Belugas>oooops...
08:52<@Rubidium>Home?
08:53<AdditionalData>heh
08:54<AdditionalData>I learned to greet the world in C ;)
08:54<Doorslammer>Fail
08:54<@Belugas>yup, will to go <home>
08:54<Doorslammer>Just found 3 tank engines that have done nothing
08:54<Doorslammer>For 4 game years :/
08:55<AdditionalData>a quick question, if you don't mind
08:55<planetmaker>so your diplomacy was successful?
08:55<AdditionalData>why does Visual Studio consider scanf to be unsafe?
08:55<@Belugas>one is called Thomas, the other Percy and the third is called Smurf
08:56<@Belugas>dunno, AdditionalData
08:56<AdditionalData>it recommends scanf_s
08:56<Noldo>AdditionalData: google
08:56<AdditionalData>ah
08:57<AdditionalData>found i
08:57<AdditionalData>*it
08:57<@Belugas>i guess that question would get beter answer from M$ devs ;)
08:57<AdditionalData>it seems that scanf doesn't prevent buffer overflow?
08:57<AdditionalData>so MS introduced scanf_s, the "secure" version
08:57<Noldo>if you use %s without limit
08:57<AdditionalData>hmm
08:57<AdditionalData>well i'm learning C
08:58<Doorslammer>Fat Controller called them "Really Useless B#$#%%^"
08:58<AdditionalData>so i'm trying to learn good practices
08:58<@petern>like gets() :D
08:58-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-26-71-125.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
08:58<AdditionalData>i made an app that loops until you feed it two numbers that add up to 23, then it quits
08:59<AdditionalData>and i used scanf to read the numbers
09:00<AdditionalData>IS that a Bad Thing(tm)?
09:01<@Belugas>I personally prefer to use InputQuery, and a try except on a StrToInt call
09:01<@Belugas>but...
09:01<@Belugas>that is not C ;)
09:01<AdditionalData>ha :)
09:01<AdditionalData>is OpenTTD still partially C++ or fully C++ now?
09:02<@Belugas>i'd say partially
09:02<AdditionalData>ah
09:02<Yexo>it's completely compiled as C++, but most likely some parts will still compile as C
09:02<AdditionalData>So if I learn C the C++ is going to trip me up?
09:03<planetmaker>probably.
09:03<AdditionalData>thanks, i'm, going now
09:03<AdditionalData>laters.
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09:03<planetmaker>but you might still...
09:03<planetmaker>... understand it.
09:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17297 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [part of FS#3120]: effect of pressing Ctrl was missed in a number of cases
09:05<@Belugas>fuck.. wrong merchant numbers
09:05-!-TB [91764840@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
09:06<TB>whoho, I have OSX running on my machine :)
09:06<TB>took me long enough ;)
09:06<+glx>on amd ?
09:06<TB>no, Intel
09:06<TB>and native :)
09:06<+glx>I'm still fighting with 10.5 on vmware
09:07<+glx>I hangs on blue screen with multicolor spinner
09:07<TB>will try to install a clean OSX later, but I required a working OSX first to create a bootstrap ... :p
09:07<TB>hahaha, always nice ... :s
09:07<TB>first, let me see how to compile OpenTTD here, to check how long that would take :)
09:07<+glx>hehe
09:08<TB>if I had ANY idea how ...
09:08<+glx>install macports first :)
09:08<TB>how? :p
09:08<+glx>though svn is included in leopard IIRC
09:08<+glx>so it's one less thing to compile
09:08<TB>but .. how? :)
09:08<+glx>http://www.macports.org/
09:09<+glx>oh you'll need to install xcode first :P
09:09<planetmaker>congratz, TB :-)
09:09<TB>'forbidden' :s
09:10<TB>(the dmg for macports)
09:10<TB>tnx planetmaker :)
09:10<planetmaker>which reminds me... I should get a new HD today, the new OSX and then try what you asked me :-)
09:10<planetmaker>you wanted 10.4 image, right?
09:11<TB>10.4, 10.5, 10.6 .. all if anywhere near possible :)
09:11<planetmaker>10.5 won't be possible. I don't own it. I hope to get 10.6 today.
09:11<planetmaker>and that I won't need anything near a bundle, but that it'll work for 29€.
09:11<TB>but 10.4 would be a good enough test-bed ;)
09:11<planetmaker>I care shit about the iLive and iWorks
09:11<planetmaker>(I have iWorks)
09:12<TB>doesn't have OSX by default some package manager?
09:12<planetmaker>If 10.6 is as good as 10.4, then I prefer 10.6.
09:12<planetmaker>I need to install that anyway.
09:12<TB>well, as I said, I need an install inside virtualbox
09:12<planetmaker>then I'll rip the image after a basic install and then continue to make it usable.
09:12<@Belugas>yup tyup yup.. no matter ho ready you are, things are doomed to break at the most inconvenient time...
09:12<planetmaker>he, true. Forgot that.
09:12<@Belugas>shit
09:13<planetmaker>ok.
09:13*planetmaker hands Belugas a bit glue
09:13<@Belugas>no, not you. me. at work
09:13<planetmaker>I figured ;-)
09:15<blathijs>TB: A friend of mine was having "forbidden" troubles with macports as well just now, seems somebody forgot a chmod :-)
09:16<TB>fink has subversion 1.4.4 ....
09:16<tdev>hi all
09:16<TB>blathijs: sucks .....
09:16<tdev>do you use code testing?
09:16<tdev>as in unit tests or functional tests?
09:16<TB>tdev: NoAI has a regression, but that is all
09:17<tdev>TB, thanks
09:18<TB>glx: how did you install xcode?
09:18<+glx>I got it from apple :)
09:18<Yexo>tdev: we do live testing, as in: we release a nightly every day and let users test it ;)
09:18<tdev>;)
09:18<TB>glx: hmm .. rquires an apple ADC account I guess?
09:19<@Rubidium>TB: you got one!
09:19<+glx>ADC account are free anyway
09:19<TB>Rubidium: yeah .. even under my own name :p
09:21<TB>although that doesn't seem activated .... :s
09:22<tdev>RoR's new buildbot: http://188.40.228.51:8020/waterfall
09:22<tdev>working quite well :)
09:23<TB>Rubidium: you had a general account, not? As I have no clue why mines doesn't work :(
09:24<@Rubidium>hmm... your bouncer ain't connected ;)
09:24<TB>I can't access my regular files, no :p
09:26<TB>cool .. I click download, and I get the same page back
09:26<TB>it started to download on the background ... never noticed :p
09:28<TB>2.2G ? Holy crap ...
09:28<@Rubidium>tdev: why are you trying to push us to use buildbot?
09:29<@Rubidium>cause we're not going to use it as we need to do too much modifications to it for it to work without destroying the website during builds
09:29<tdev>Rubidium, i am not doing so
09:29<tdev>i just need to use it for work
09:29<tdev>and appearently my spam is not wished here
09:29<tdev>thus, kthxbye
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09:30<TB>op teentje getrapt" :) (sorry, can't translate that :p)
09:30<blathijs>Touchy?
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09:34<TB>xcode works ...
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09:35<TB>macports still doesn't ....
09:38<+glx>open the console to check what's wrong
09:38<TB>macports downloads give a "forbidden"
09:38<TB>so ... ;)
09:38<+glx>ha
09:39<+glx>ho 1.8.0 is recent :)
09:39<+glx>I have 1.7.1
09:40<TB>hehe
09:40<TB>where ... can I see an application menu or what ever?
09:40<planetmaker>usually in the Apps folder.
09:41<+glx>and indeed I can't get 1.8.0
09:41<planetmaker>But it requires to be a *.app to be there
09:41<TB>apps folder ...
09:41<planetmaker>svn or hg don't show up for me either. Like command line tools on linux don't show up anywhere either.
09:41<TB>ah, /Applications :)
09:41<planetmaker>TB like OpenTTD.app
09:41<@Belugas>mmh.. interesting... i've got a script test for a Maestro UK Chip'nPin card
09:41<planetmaker>Those you can drag there.
09:41<planetmaker>But I guess it nees a gui for that.
09:41<+glx>console and terminal are in Utilities :)
09:42<planetmaker>otherwise: the usual places /bin /usr/bin
09:42<+glx>start them and lock them in the dock :)
09:42<TB>planetmaker: I was more looking for a start menu of some kind
09:42<TB>manual finding application is a bitch .. and using spotlight is annoying
09:42<planetmaker>for what application, TB?
09:42<TB>any!
09:43<TB>I just installed nomachine, and it took long before spotlight saw it ...
09:43<planetmaker>well... you may or may not have them in the /Application folder - depends upon the app ;-)
09:43<TB>sucks
09:43<TB>3 gcc versions .. yippie! :p
09:43<planetmaker>:-)
09:44<+glx>I have only 2 :)
09:44<TB>:p :p
09:44*planetmaker has also only two.
09:44<+glx>10.4 and xcode 2.5 I guess
09:45<+glx>gcc-3.3 and gcc-4.0
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09:45<planetmaker>hm... I might have gcc-3.3, too. Haven't actually used it then.
09:45<TB>3.3, 4.0 and 4.2 :p
09:45<TB>k .. compiling OpenTTD ..
09:46<planetmaker>I'm using so far xcode 2.4 on OSX 10.4 and a self-compiled gcc 4.5 from around one, two months ago
09:46<planetmaker>the default gcc is form, thouhg 4.0
09:46<planetmaker>*though
09:47*planetmaker wonders what might be 10.6's default gcc.
09:47<+glx>I started a restauration to see if it could work, but there's no way to stop it and it's slow
09:48-!-Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-110-59.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>http://cgi.ebay.de/Modellbahn-Spur-H0-Doppelte-Gleisverbindung-DDR-8360_W0QQitemZ310164209519QQcmdZViewItem <- hm, i think this is awfully expensive for a set that is missing two pieces
09:51<TB>smallmap_gui ...
09:51<@Rubidium>TB: what's wrong with that?
09:51<+glx>that's fast TrueBrain
09:51<SmatZ>maybe someone has just those two missing pieces :-P
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09:51<TB>still dead slow ..
09:51<SmatZ>TB: what did you do to TrueBrain?!
09:51<+glx>will not take 45m
09:51<@Rubidium>TB: beat's glx' 45 minutes though
09:52<TB>it is idling till I get noMachine to work :p
09:52<@Rubidium>s/'s/s/
09:52<TB>yeah, but beating glx' time wasn't hard
09:52<TB>native vs emulated ..
09:52<TB>although I am currently running the VESA driver ... :p
09:52<TB>[SRC] Linking openttd
09:52<TB>hmm
09:52<+glx>vmware is not really emulated, but without vmware video driver a VM is dead slow
09:53<TB>real 6m48.586s
09:53<+glx>not bad
09:53<TB>glx: because it gets emulated ;) But okay :)
09:53<+glx>cpu is not emulated :)
09:53<TB>Rubidium: how long does the CF take to do 1 target?
09:53<TB>glx: video is ;)
09:53<+glx>yes and it uses a core :)
09:53<TB>hmm .. I need opensfx and opengfx
09:55<TB>where did you put those on binaries, Rubidium ?
09:56<@Rubidium>http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/ (or http://mz.openttdcoop.org/bundles/open[gs]fx/)
09:56<TB>they are not listed in index.html ... ;)
09:56<@Rubidium>TB: ~13 minutes per target
09:56<@Rubidium>TB: it's intentionally not listed in index.html
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09:57<+glx>hmm he will need 7zip :)
09:57<TB>yup .. I don't have it, neither does fink :(
09:57<@Rubidium>then use mz
09:58<TB>Rubidium: so I am faster than the CF? :s
09:58<@Rubidium>TB: how many cores?
09:58<TB>one
09:58<TB>well .. -j1
09:58<TB>(and one core)
09:58<@Rubidium>so yes, then you're quite a bit faster than the CF
09:59<+glx>TB: not universal build though ;)
10:00<TB>a single target, yes
10:00<TB>whoho, it runs!
10:00<TB>it looks ugly :p (screen-res is non-widescreen :p)
10:01<TB>hmm .. opengfx on mz is not the one in BaNaNaS :(
10:01<TB>haha, and downloading it doesn't fix it :p
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>what's this sudden interest in macos all about?
10:02<TB>OpenGFX.0.1.0_alpha6.tar vsopengfx-0.1.0-alpha6.tar
10:02<@Rubidium>TB: then the one on mz is newer
10:02<TB>Eddi|zuHause: 'sudden'?
10:02<TB>Eddi|zuHause: we have been trying for months, if not years
10:02<@Rubidium>*or* at least the md5 checksums differ
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>well, "increased activity since yesterday"
10:03<Ammler>[16:01] <TB> hmm .. opengfx on mz is not the one in BaNaNaS  <-- the bananas version is the tar in the bundle, afaik.
10:03<TB>Eddi|zuHause: yesterday? No again. But yes, I found a method that allows me to install it on my own machine, and glx found a way to install it on vmware
10:03<Ammler>we made it that way, so windows user have access to the docs, without untar tool.
10:03<TB>the naming difference is a bit silly
10:04<TB>(as that will give bugreports :p)
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>then i will wish you good luck with getting it to work ;)
10:04<TB>Eddi|zuHause: tnx :)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>http://cgi.ebay.de/HO-Piko-kurze-gerade-Schienen-85-Stueck-Set-3_W0QQitemZ130326822540QQcmdZViewItem <- ok, this could solve my distinct lack of balancer pieces ;)
10:06<TB>okay, now compiling an universal build .. we will see :)
10:06<TB>Rubidium: you said 13 minutes per target, but doesn't it do 3 targets? Or does it really take 39 minutes?
10:10<@Rubidium>TB: it takes 2369 seconds
10:12<TB>@calc 2369 / 3 / 60
10:12<@DorpsGek>TB: 13.1611111111
10:12<TB>auch
10:12<TB>k :)
10:12<TB>tnx
10:20<TB>going to install a retail OSX on my external drive ... ghehe :)
10:25<TB>17 minutes, universal build
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10:28<TB>@calc 17 * 60 / 2369
10:28<@DorpsGek>TB: 0.43056141832
10:28<TB>auch :p
10:30<+glx>with all required libs?
10:30<+glx>and optional ones?
10:30<TB>dunno
10:31<TB>not libpng
10:31<TB>not libicu
10:31<TB>the rest seems so
10:32-!-sdafsdf [LadyHawk@78-105-102-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
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10:57<@Rubidium>TB: universal cross-build takes 20 minutes on my machine (-j1)
10:57<@Rubidium>on a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9400 @ 2.53GHz
11:06<TB>I have an ...T5750
11:06<TB>dunno the speed
11:06<TB>2 GHz :p
11:06<TB>so native is faster than cross :p
11:07<@Rubidium>maybe I didn't use -O3 with the cross compiler
11:08<TB>I used ./configure
11:08<TB>no extra thingies
11:08<TB>oh, to make the compiler
11:08<TB>hehe, sorry :)
11:08<TB>okay, retail install done .. going to try it out :)
11:09<TB>'top' really consumes 4% CPU :s
11:09<TB>inefficient piece of crap
11:09<TB>k, bbl ...
11:09<@Rubidium>ciao
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11:11<Eddi|zuHause>why does the forum so frequently log me out?
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11:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17298 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3153]: reloading an AI started a new AI in the first available company slot causing other AIs to be started
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17299 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: the tooltip could get truncated under some circumstances due to its custom string height determination
11:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17300 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#3120]: mention of Ctrl modifier was missing from some tooltips
11:25<OwenS>Rubidium: Trying to get to r20000 faster? :p
11:26<@Rubidium>yeah
11:26<OwenS>lol
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11:26<OwenS>Apparently I have a lag of 2s to oftc today =/
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>hey, someone with a worse ping than me. that's rare...
11:27<OwenS>Perhaps that rTorrent is currently running at 1MB/s may be a part of it :p
11:27<OwenS>990ms, somewhat better
11:28<+glx>limit the up
11:28<OwenS>It is limited
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>limit it to something significantly less than the actual bandwidth
11:30<OwenS>Hmm... dropping it down another 5kb/s seems to have hit the sweetspot
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>and put irc packages into the prioritised queue
11:30<OwenS>I would need a QOS capable router for that :p
11:31<Aankhen``>Meh, QoS. I enabled that on my router, doesn't seem to make any difference.
11:31<OwenS>You need QoS aware apps first :p
11:32<Aankhen``>Oh? I thought it was just a matter of saying "stuff on this port is important, stuff on that port isn't". o_O
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's the easiest variant ;)
11:32<OwenS>QoS normally works (or should work :P ) by using 4 bits in the IP header as the priority
11:33<Aankhen``>I see.
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>but the default settings here prioritise only small packets (ACK) and interactive ssh traffic
11:33<Terkhen>44 strings... it seems like I have some work to do :P
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>i had to insert the irc traffic there manually
11:33<OwenS>I have a feeling I'm going to get throttled tonight...
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>and create a new queue for "unimportant" packets (i.e. torrent)
11:34<OwenS>If all routers were IP QoS capable it would be easy: Just have the torrent client set it's QoS priority to -1...
11:34<OwenS>Though that wouldn't work inbound...
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>inbound bandwidth is usually shaped by dropping ACK packets
11:35<Eddi|zuHause>any sane sender will then throttle their upload rate
11:36<OwenS>Thats a rather crappy shaping method. Advertising an artificially low window size would be better...
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, again, it's the easiest method
11:36<OwenS>But it actually increases bandwidth wastage vs saying "I only have a packets worth of buffer left in my window, please slow down your sending"
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you basically throw away packets that you received perfectly well
11:38<Xaroth>where's TrueBrain when you need him :/
11:39<OwenS>I also wish NAT routers would support SCTP since it's a lovely protocol...
11:39*Aankhen`` looks up SCTP.
11:41<Aankhen``>Sounds interesting, but mostly went over my head due to a lack of familiarity with the subject matter. Ah well.
11:41<OwenS>SCTP is basically an unreliable or reliable, ordered or unordered datagram protocol with support for multiple streams inside a connection
11:41<SpComb>hmm, unreliable?
11:41<Aankhen``>Streams?
11:41*Aankhen`` waves at SpComb.
11:41<Aankhen``>OwenS: Streams as in unrelated flows of data?
11:42<OwenS>Multiple streams means it can contain multiple "virtual sockets"
11:42<Aankhen``>Okay.
11:42<SpComb>oh look, Aankhen
11:42<Aankhen``>Where?!
11:42<OwenS>It pretty much checks every box you could want checking
11:42<Aankhen``>KILL IT WITH FIRE
11:43<SpComb>didn't even recognize the nick at first glance
11:43<Aankhen``>OwenS: Indeed it does.
11:43<OwenS>Except the "Crosses consumer NATs" box, which is a fault of said consumer NATs...
11:43<Aankhen``>SpComb: Good thing I didn't use one of my newer nicks, eh?
11:44<SpComb>hmm, wikipedia claims SCTP has unreliable transport, but I fail to find that feature in the socket API
11:44<SpComb>SCTP doesn't do multicast, though :(
11:44<OwenS>Oh sorry, it also fails to check the "Supported by Windows" box
11:44<Aankhen``>Aha.
11:44<OwenS>SpComb: Reliable tranmission and multicast are pretty much mutually exclusive...
11:45<SpComb>"Stream: A unidirectional logical channel established from one to
11:45<SpComb>"Stream: A unidirectional logical channel established from one to another associated SCTP endpoint, within which all user messages are delivered in sequence except for those submitted to the unordered delivery service"
11:45<joachim>SmatZ: did you stop working on 3d?
11:45<SpComb>I might be ready to claim that SCTP doesn't offer unreliable transport
11:47<SpComb>but it seems there exists an extension
11:47<OwenS>Unfortunately it seems my man pages don't include SCTP...
11:48<OwenS>Aah yeah IETF Working draft
11:49<@Belugas>joachim, yes, indeed. now, SmatZ only works on a plain paper sheet, in 2d!
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11:53<SpComb>OwenS: it doesn't come with the default set
11:53<SpComb>debian has libsctp1
11:53<OwenS>libsctp is a userspace implementation on top of UDP IIRC
11:54<SpComb>libsctp-dev: /usr/share/man/man7/sctp.7.gz
11:54<SpComb>no, it's the SCTP socket API extension
11:54<SpComb>*extensions
11:55<SpComb>sctp_connectx/sctp_bindx/etc (which are just get/setsockopts on linux)
11:55<OwenS>Shouldn't they be in libc? =S
11:55<SpComb>too marginal, I guess
11:55<SpComb>and the API is pretty badly designed
11:55<OwenS>Wait who am I kidding, this is glibc were talking about
11:55<OwenS>The project headed by a developer who flat out refuses to implement strlcpy/strlcat...
11:55<SpComb>it takes a `struct sockaddr` array...
11:56<SpComb>which is rather nonsensical
11:56<OwenS>What does?
11:56<SpComb>the sctp_bind/connectx functions
11:56<OwenS>SCTP does IP multihoming
11:56<SpComb>well, mainly because `struct sockaddr` doesn't have a defined length
11:57<SpComb>so it loops through it, and picks out sockaddr_in/sockaddr_in6's based on the sa_family field
11:57<SpComb>such that the array can contain a mixture of sockaddr_in/sockaddr_in6's, which are of different lengths...
11:58<SpComb>which is a terrifically horrible C API
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11:59<OwenS>I'll admit freaky but I've seen worse
11:59<TB>I have a vanilla Leopard running ;)
11:59<TB>well, of course there is the software EFI emulation, and a few extensions which disable .. euh .. various of thingies :)
11:59-!-asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd
12:00<TB>now updating to 10.5.8 ....
12:00<OwenS>lol
12:00<TB>fun thing: it runs on a external USB HD ... and it is quick!
12:01<Xaroth>TB!
12:01<Xaroth>read yer other window
12:01<TB>Xaroth: I can't access my normal IRC atm
12:01<Xaroth>i'll summarize
12:01<@Belugas>yer?
12:01<Xaroth>I GOTS IT
12:01<TB>NoMachine refuses to run on OSX for now :(
12:01<@Belugas>year?
12:01<TB>Xaroth: COOL! :)
12:01<Xaroth>read other window soon.
12:01<Xaroth>off to home
12:01<TB>will do
12:01<TB>enjoy :)
12:01<SpComb>OwenS: yeah, one must admit that it's an API whereby it's at least /possible/ to implement/call it correctly (if you limit it to only certain address families)
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12:21<Terkhen>Start a new game. Ctrl+Click skips map configuration <--- and I thought I knew most of the features toggled by Ctrl
12:23<Ammler>could someone help me, what those nfo warning means: http://pastebin.ca/1545968
12:24-!-DaleStan [~Dale@98.223.108.117] has joined #openttd
12:28<OwenS>SpComb: I'd say it's possible to call right either way, just somewhat bass ackward
12:30<Terkhen>where should I report typos at original (english) strings?
12:32<@Belugas>typos?
12:33<@Belugas>mmh...
12:33<@Belugas>lots?
12:33<Terkhen>only one
12:33<@Belugas>like?
12:33-!-bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
12:33<Terkhen>{BLACK}Centre main view on hangar location. Ctrl+Click opens a new viewport on hanger location
12:34<@Belugas>Centre -> Center / hanger -> hangar?
12:35<@Belugas>that's two, right?
12:35-!-Aankhen`` [~foo@122.162.167.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:35<Terkhen>mmm... I only noticed hangar -> hanger
12:35<Terkhen>I thought centre was correct
12:35*Belugas wonders if we have an original english translator...
12:36<@Belugas>well.. it FEELS wrong to me, but... not a native
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12:38<Coco-Banana-Man>afaik centre is BE and center AE?
12:38<Coco-Banana-Man>(British English/American English)
12:39<@Belugas>see? not a native ^_^
12:39<Coco-Banana-Man>same here ^^
12:39-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aeji52.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:40<Coco-Banana-Man>But that's what I've been told at school...
12:40<Terkhen>the same as color / colour? It was hard for me to stop using both randomly :P
12:40<Coco-Banana-Man>yes
12:40<Terkhen>I see
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12:47<TrueBrain>whoho, nomachine works :)
12:47<TrueBrain>OSX 10.5.8 runs too
12:47<@Rubidium>Centre is correct for Brittish English
12:47<@Belugas>roger that
12:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17301 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r17297): typo
12:49<@Belugas>damned!
12:49<@Belugas>i was about to press Enter!
12:50-!-Mesolicious [~foo@122.162.167.218] has joined #openttd
12:50<@Rubidium>sorry :)
12:50<@Belugas>how could you have known ;)
12:51<@Rubidium>telepathy?
12:54<@Belugas>if only it was invented...
12:54-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
13:04<Mesolicious>Is there any documentation on this "Autoroad" thingie?
13:04-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
13:04<Mesolicious>Hi Lakie.
13:05-!-Mesolicious is now known as Aankhen``
13:05<Lakie>Hi Aankhen``.
13:05<Aankhen``>How's it going? Long time. :-)
13:05<Lakie>Fairly slow, waiting for peeps to get back to me about what I can and cannot do. :/
13:05<Aankhen``>In what regard?
13:06<@Rubidium>documentation about "autoroad"? It's like autorail
13:06<Lakie>Uni
13:06<Aankhen``>Rubidium: Ah, thanks. First time I'm trying OpenTTD, pretty much.
13:07<Aankhen``>Lakie: Oh. That sucks.
13:07<Lakie>Yup
13:08<@Rubidium>so it's the normal road thingy, but you can drag it in all directions instead only in X or Y direction
13:10-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@196.144.99-84.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:10<Aankhen``>Rubidium: Merci.
13:16-!-Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0BC4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17302 /branches/0.7/src/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Reloading an AI started a new AI in the first available company slot causing other AIs to be started [FS#3153] (r17298)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash after upgrading base graphics set when opening the game options menu and you were using the upgraded set [FS#3147] (r17291)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Stack was not always cleared properly with tail recursion (r17284)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Calling a function that has default parameters with not enough parameters can cause a crash (r17273)
13:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Change: Mention the MD5 checksum of the original NewGRF in the "saveload failed horribly"-error message and make it more clear that the filename is of the current NewGRF [FS#3139] (r17267)
13:22<@Rubidium>Terkhenm, those other strings weren't part of what I changed today ;) Nevertheless... translation reviews are good
13:24<Terkhen>okay, thanks :)
13:26-!-nicfer1 [~Usuario@168.226.104.70] has joined #openttd
13:26<@petern>heh
13:26<@petern>and now everyone will wonder what terkhen wrote
13:26<@petern>p.s. your signature is a bit big
13:29<Terkhen>I was mistaken from reading that "version" somewhere, I did not want to spread incorrect information so I just removed it quickly
13:29<Terkhen>okay, I was thinking on changing its format anyways
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13:38<TrueBrain>bah, I can't get the video driver to work as I would like :(
13:42-!-MizardX is now known as MizardX-
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13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17303 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt german.txt spanish.txt):
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 30 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 38 changes by Roujin
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: spanish - 103 changes by Terkhen
13:47<TrueBrain>thank you WT3.0
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14:34<fjb>Hello
14:35<Alberth>hello
14:35-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1ae4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann]
14:35-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:35<TrueBrain>hello
14:36-!-Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
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14:44<planetmaker>hello
14:44<planetmaker>TrueBrain: VirtualBox doesn't recognize my MacCDs.
14:44<TrueBrain>so that wasn't just me :s
14:45<TrueBrain>how does 10.6 work planetmaker? :p
14:45<planetmaker>not yet :-) The HDD which I liked for it wasn't available.
14:46<planetmaker>so I'll have to be patient till Monday or so.
14:46<TrueBrain>but okay, you can download a boot-123 iso, which helps you booting it
14:47<planetmaker>I guess that's what you did?
14:47<TrueBrain>yup
14:47<TrueBrain>any bootloader will do btw, if you can select where it boots from
14:47<planetmaker>My guess is, if I do that, too, it won't differ from what you produce...
14:48<TrueBrain>well, the install can't succeed here
14:48<TrueBrain>beause of a few hardware related issues :p
14:48<planetmaker>ah
14:48<TrueBrain>but it is claimed that virtualbox does work ;)
14:48<planetmaker>well, it depends upon what virtualbox emulates
14:49<planetmaker>got a link for the boot-123 iso? Hm... I guess it fails then that I don't have CDs which can be written upon ;-)
14:49<planetmaker>though... images can be read.
14:49<TrueBrain>load it into virtualbox :p
14:49<TrueBrain>no need to burn
14:49<planetmaker>how big is the ISO?
14:49<TrueBrain>a few meg
14:49<planetmaker>that's fine then
14:49<TrueBrain>http://rawr.xaroth.nl/wiki/index.php/File_List
14:49<TrueBrain>doh
14:50<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/orig_boot-132.iso
14:51<Xaroth>yeh, they can't get on rawr :P
14:51<TrueBrain>sorry about that Xaroth ;)
14:51<TrueBrain>my copy/paste buffer does not always work
14:51*Xaroth shrugs
14:51<Xaroth>not like it's got sekrits on it
14:52<TrueBrain>still ;)
14:58-!-kadmoz [kadmoz@88-117-117-132.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.11/2009060313]]
15:04<planetmaker>hm... and how does that help me, TrueBrain ?
15:04<TrueBrain>planetmaker: boot from that, switch CDs (virtual of course), enter enter
15:05-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1FA6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:05<TrueBrain>then it should boot
15:05<planetmaker>hm.... ok, another try for that procedure
15:08<planetmaker>same procedure doesn't work now either. I guess I tried in all different combinations that before
15:08<TrueBrain>:'(
15:08<TrueBrain>stupid virtualbox!
15:09<+glx>still no luck for me
15:10<planetmaker>hm...
15:11<planetmaker>what kinda OS did you tell VirtualBox to install?
15:11<planetmaker>and what's the password to my first registration at sun?
15:15<Aankhen``>secure123?
15:15<@Belugas>and why is that cloud stealing the eggs of my cocoon?
15:15-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2a01:270:dd00:7701:1337:1337:1337:1337] has joined #openttd
15:15<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho :)
15:15<z-MaTRiX>bb
15:16<@Belugas>Be back?
15:16<planetmaker>http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/bild2.png <-- The only result I get (next to No boot medium when not using the iso)
15:16<@Belugas>Bursting Bubbles?
15:16<@Belugas>Bitching babyes?
15:16-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAE94ad.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
15:17<@Belugas>Beheading brachyosaurus?
15:17-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2a01:270:dd00:7701:1337:1337:1337:1337] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:27<Eddi|zuHause>the poor things...
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>no wonder they got extinct
15:27<TrueBrain>planetmaker: that is kind of wrong ... oh well ....
15:27<TrueBrain>tnx for trying anyway :)
15:28<planetmaker>TrueBrain: wrong in what way?
15:29<TrueBrain>planetmaker: it should give you another boot thingy
15:29<@Belugas>left instead of right
15:29<@Belugas>up instead of down
15:29<planetmaker>ah, hm. right
15:29<@Belugas>no...left
15:29<TrueBrain>what looks like when you hit F8 at boottime
15:29<planetmaker>that it never does :-(
15:29<TrueBrain>(in OSX :p)
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>up is down.
15:30<planetmaker>that looks way different...
15:30<planetmaker>1 = -1
15:30<TrueBrain>I can proof that!
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>in a way that i did not see it a hundred times already?
15:31<planetmaker>;-)
15:31<TrueBrain>last time I did it via gcc!
15:32<TrueBrain>well, that 1 == 2, but there is no limitatio to either number
15:33-!-PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:34<PeterT>yexo?
15:34<Yexo>hello PeterT
15:34<PeterT>could you give me the link for YChat again? i am on a different computer
15:35<Yexo>http://www.silverex.org/download/
15:35<PeterT>thanks yexo :)
15:35<Yexo>np ;)
15:35<PeterT>TrueBrain: I just got my book on C++
15:36<Yexo>PeterT: it's the first result if you google for "xchat windows"
15:36<PeterT>i thought this was ychat...
15:38<Yexo>it's the same program :p
15:38<PeterT>ok, be right back
15:38-!-PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:38<Yexo>official name is XChat, but the official windows binaries are non-free. As the code is gpl some other people compile it and offer free binaries, but the code automatically renames those versions to YChat
15:39<Alberth>that explanation is way better than I thought :)
15:39-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd
15:42<TrueBrain>you got to love 'GPL' projects :)
15:42<TrueBrain>lets do it for OpenTTD! And name the 'free' version FreeTTD! :p
15:43<@Rubidium>no, rename OpenTTD to OTTD and name the 'free' version PTTD
15:44<Yexo>quote from INSTALL.w32: "Note: This source code is meant for Linux/Unix like systems. Compiling this for Windows will produce a below-par quality product. The official XChat for Windows is not built with this unix source code."
15:45<@Rubidium>does sound like a violation of GPL
15:45<Yexo>not necesarliy, they can double-license all their code
15:47<@Rubidium>true, though then you'd likely find traces of that in the readme/COPYING of XChat
15:48<Yexo>COPYING is the gpl v2 licence
15:48<@Rubidium>does anything tell it's licensed differently?
15:48<Yexo>nope
15:48<Yexo>the windows installer doesn't ask anything about a license at all
15:49<Yexo>and the 'windows srouces' are nowhere to be found
15:49<@Rubidium>then *if* you got a XChat in a legal manner you ought to get the sources of the binary, including the makefile/build scripts used to compile it
15:49<@Rubidium>when you ask for it
15:50<@Rubidium>and not the YChat sources
15:50<Yexo>Rubidium: I can get the makefile / build scripts of YChat, but not of XChat
15:50<Yexo>and they don't have to give them to me as long as no gpl-only code is included
15:50<Yexo>as soon as I submit a patch under gpl, they can use it in their unix version but not in their windows version without making it gpl
15:51<Yexo>s/I/someone/, but I can't check that
15:52<@Rubidium>but you just said that XChat is released with only a notice that it is GPLv2
15:52<@Rubidium>so it IS GPLv2
15:53<Yexo>Rubidium: that's the source that has that notice
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15:58<@Rubidium>it's automatically buildable for Windows? That sounds like really crappy code, not sure whether I would spend any money for that
15:59<Yexo>apparantly it needs some tricks to build on windows
16:00<planetmaker>he... long time no seen: assertion upon load in clean trunk...
16:02<planetmaker>hm... nvm, I guess. Probably a FIRS incompatibility issue
16:02-!-LordAzamath [~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
16:02<planetmaker>though funnily OpenTTD tells me that the save has no newgrfs where I know it has three :-)
16:02*TrueBrain hugs LadyHawk
16:02<TrueBrain>planetmaker: hehe, sounds .. wrong? :)
16:03<@Rubidium>planetmaker: care to share the savegame?
16:03<planetmaker>yup. As is the reported OS-version
16:03<planetmaker>Rubidium: yes, I care.
16:03<planetmaker>I just try to find out what grfs in detail were loaded. As a compatible FIRS was loaded.
16:03<@Rubidium>huh? reported OS version?
16:03<@Rubidium>what's wrong with that?
16:04<planetmaker>I have 10.4.11 not 10.4.9
16:04*Rubidium wonders what part of OTTD actually does that
16:05<@Rubidium>probably the unsupported part
16:05<planetmaker>I have a screeny :-)
16:06<@Rubidium>oh... Bjarni code!
16:06<@Rubidium>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/os/macosx/macos.mm#L39 <- you're getting that
16:07<@Rubidium>presists?
16:07<TrueBrain>lol, no 64bit support? :p
16:07-!-Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit []
16:08<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: do you have an idea what the right subtypes are?
16:08<TrueBrain>no wonder he says no newgrfs .... :p
16:08<TrueBrain>a good /* tend to do that :)
16:09<TrueBrain>Rubidium: filtering on subtype only is bad
16:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: 10.4.9 for 10.4.11 is a documented OSX feature!
16:09<TrueBrain>CPU_TYPE_X86_64, CPU_TYPE_I386, ...
16:09<+glx>oh I should crash openttd to see what it detects in my vmware
16:10<planetmaker>Hm... I'm fairly sure it's another occurance of "I didn't find the right grf, and used one with the same ID at random..."
16:10<@Rubidium>anyhow, the crash is *after* loading the savegame
16:10<TrueBrain>planetmaker: it just underlines the euh, what is the english ... 'badness' of the OSX port? :)
16:10<planetmaker>... which is not compatible. But yes, after the loading.
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think it's wise to keep multiple "development" versions of a grf around... it's really asking for trouble :p
16:12<TrueBrain>http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/macho/0.2/doc/html/Data-Macho.html#t%3ACPU_SUBTYPE <- now that is a list ....
16:12<TrueBrain>and who says OSX doesn't support many CPUs? :p
16:12<@Rubidium>If the values of the minor or bug fix revision are larger than 9, then gestaltSystemVersion will substitute the value 9 for them. For example, Mac OS X 10.3.15 will be returned as 0x1039, and Mac OS X 10.10.5 will return 0x1095.
16:13<TrueBrain>sounds like a useful feature :p
16:14<@Rubidium>pff... what an awful mess is macos.mm
16:15<Alberth>one dev was frustrated with the number of calls about the computer not being able to count :p
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: you should not have opened that file :p
16:16<Alberth>Rubidium goes boldly where others dare not go :p
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>where no sane human has gone before :p
16:20<@Rubidium>so... and it's not a new bug!
16:20<@Rubidium>just shoved the whole mess cleanup into the OSX port outdated bug :)
16:20<planetmaker>nope, it's not a new bug ;-)
16:21-!-tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2E05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22<TrueBrain>cool, I can boot OSX from my External HD in VirtualBox :p
16:22<@Rubidium>wut... booting OSX in vbox?
16:22<planetmaker>uploading to Flyspray. But it will take its time with all newgrf attached :-)
16:22-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
16:22<planetmaker>oh done.
16:22<planetmaker>FS3155
16:23<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, the starting-phase worked, yes
16:23<TrueBrain>which means absolutely nothing :p
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16:24<@Rubidium>planetmaker: that savegame crashes after a few days, right?
16:24<planetmaker>I guess it might have been one or two day.
16:25<planetmaker>crashing with the attached firs.grf should probably be ok. It's a very, very, very early grf of first
16:25<planetmaker>*firs
16:25<@Rubidium>can you get a backtrace?
16:25<@Rubidium>(just to compare it with the one I have)
16:25<planetmaker>I guess. Will need me to attache gdb to it, right?
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16:26<@Rubidium>yup
16:26<@Rubidium>though what's pretending to be a lumbermill?
16:27-!-Coco|away is now known as Coco-Banana-Man
16:27<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/211416
16:27<planetmaker>I've no idea what is pretending to be that. Maybe a wood
16:28<@Rubidium>hmm, can you enable debugging? Seems the same though
16:29<planetmaker>-d 9 ?
16:29<planetmaker>or how much?
16:29<@Rubidium>no, compile with debugging stuff
16:29<@Rubidium>as in ./configure --enable-debug=3
16:29<planetmaker>oh, he
16:30<TrueBrain>nope, it refuses to boot in VirtualBox, for reasons I fail to understand :)
16:30<TrueBrain>(it hangs in ACPI :p)
16:31<TrueBrain>and the lack of VT-X doesn't make this any easier :p
16:31<planetmaker>VT-X?
16:31<TrueBrain>AMD-V and VT-X
16:31<+glx>hardware virtualisation in cpu
16:31<TrueBrain>CPU extensions to make virtualization easier :)
16:31<planetmaker>ah, thx
16:32<+glx>or something like that :)
16:32<TrueBrain>and I have the only in the T5 serie which does NOT have it :(
16:32<TrueBrain>(for no real reason ... as I am sure it is in the CPU, just not enabled)
16:33<planetmaker>and all this trouble only as I wanted to see how the firs' sandpit looks with snow...
16:33<+glx>I have a X2 3800+ and no AMD-V (of course I have a socket 939 not an AM2)
16:33<planetmaker>or rather semi-transparent ground tiles
16:33<TrueBrain>glx: I thought all X2s had AMD-V? Mine 3000+ and 3200+ both do ...
16:34<+glx>only AM2 socket
16:34<TrueBrain>ah ...
16:34<TrueBrain>sucks
16:35<+glx>doens't really matter with vmware anyway (I can run 64bit VM on 32bit host)
16:35<+glx>but it's a no-go for virtual box
16:36<planetmaker>Rubidium: http://pastebin.ca/1546257
16:36<@Rubidium>planetmaker: the industries around tile 44173 are completely different with firs.grf that the others
16:36<planetmaker>doesn't look much different to me
16:36<planetmaker>(the bt)
16:37<@Rubidium>by the way r213M doesn't crash
16:37<planetmaker>I would also wonder, if :-)
16:38<planetmaker>Pixel colour is something OpenTTD shouldn't care about
16:38<@Rubidium>though firs.grf does crash
16:38<planetmaker>(at least in that way)
16:38-!-bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
16:38<planetmaker>well, as said: it's ok, if it doesn't work
16:38<@Rubidium>however, firs.grf is 100 KiB smaller than the tars
16:38<planetmaker>it's not meant to be compatible
16:39<planetmaker>(though they claim)
16:39<@Rubidium>huh? there what's the issue with that bug?
16:40<@Rubidium>both tars work fine
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16:40<planetmaker>[22:00] <planetmaker> he... long time no seen: assertion upon load in clean trunk...
16:40<planetmaker>[22:01] <planetmaker> hm... nvm, I guess. Probably a FIRS incompatibility issue
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16:40<TrueBrain>and now I am back to invalid uuid to boot from my disk ... bah
16:40<planetmaker>:-)
16:40<@Rubidium>the firs.grf which looks ancient to me does crash
16:41<planetmaker>yes. It doesn't have all industries, I guess
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16:42<TrueBrain>I guess I just ened to install the voodoo kernel and try that ..
16:43<TrueBrain>but now first a good nap, tomorrow BAZ! (boulderen aan zee, beach-bouldering) .. hmm ... now lets hope it doesn't rain as it did today :)
16:43<TrueBrain>night all!!
16:43<PeterT>good night,
16:43<@Rubidium>night TB
16:43<PeterT>i will be having fun with my new c book
16:43<PeterT>and devcplusplus
16:43<Yexo>night TrueBrain
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16:46<planetmaker>night, TrueBrain
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16:49<planetmaker>hm... I guess industries always have to define a ground tile. Transparency just is not on there.
16:55<asilv>using transparent groung sprites has intresting effects :p
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16:57<planetmaker>just noticed that, yes
17:01*Eddi|zuHause expects something between a black tile and just keeping what was drawn there previously
17:02<Yexo>just keeping what was drawn there previously <- you guessed correct :)
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17:04<asilv>it also shows some random stuff from nearby tiles
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>well. others had similar problems, like the more heightlevels thingie
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17:30*Belugas wishes good vacations to petern, as well as some good jam occasions ;)
17:30<@Belugas>as for me, i'm wishing myself a good return home...
17:31<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:31<@Belugas>you too Master Rubidium
17:31*Belugas is gone
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18:45<AC6000>ok, my friend is having issues with the OSX version of openttd with the grfs, any help?
18:45-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:45<planetmaker>dthat depends
18:45<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:45<Ammler>planetmaker: please, help :-)
18:45<planetmaker>why doesn#t your friend com here
18:45<AC6000>hey Nite_Owl
18:45*OwenS hugs connection for 1Mbyte/s speeds
18:46<Ammler>sali Nite_Owl
18:46<planetmaker>moin Nite_Owl
18:46<AC6000>he doesn't use MIRC...
18:46<Yexo>hello Nite_Owl
18:46<Yexo>AC6000: as long as you don't tell us what the problem is we can't help
18:46<planetmaker>AC6000: me neither. But I use a Mac, too
18:47<Nite_Owl>Hello AC6000 & Ammler & planetmaker & Yexo
18:47<AC6000>ok, first off, is there a data folder for the OSX version?
18:47<planetmaker>yes
18:47<@Rubidium>yes, as per readme.txt
18:47<AC6000>well, it didn't appear for him...
18:47<AC6000>oh, one mo...
18:47<planetmaker>it does, once you start the game
18:47<@Rubidium>what has "he doesn't use MIRC" to do with unable to come to IRC?
18:48<@Rubidium>it's like "he doesn't use Opera" means he can't browse the internet
18:48<AC6000>he just doesn't do IRC
18:48<@Rubidium>there're enough web based IRC clients (IRC clients that work in your web browser)
18:48<TinoDidriksen>There's even ChatZilla which runs a real IRC client in the browser...
18:49-!-snorre_ [~snorre@cE52DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd
18:49<OwenS>TinoDidriksen: ChatZilla requires Mozilla :p
18:49<TinoDidriksen>...hence in the browser. But there is a stand-alone version of it.
18:50<planetmaker>TinoDidriksen: guess what use right now...
18:50-!-snorre [~snorre@c832BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:51<planetmaker>btw... look in ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data AC6000
18:51<planetmaker>and chapter 4 of the do-not-readme
18:53<MyCatVerbs>TinoDidriksen: stand-alone Chatzilla is just XULrunning with Chatzilla baked in, no?
18:53<TinoDidriksen>Yup
18:53<TinoDidriksen>But still doesn't crash if Firefox does...
18:53<MyCatVerbs>Er, XULrunner.
18:53*MyCatVerbs glares at firefox.
18:53*OwenS hugs Opera
18:54<MyCatVerbs>TinoDidriksen: yeah, I can see why that's attractive. But irssi doesn't crash when firefox does either.
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i already run an OS, why should i run a browser that pretends to be an OS on top of my OS?
18:54<TinoDidriksen>Eh, I actually use mIRC...it works, and has my scripts.
18:55-!-snorre [~snorre@c832BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd
18:56<MyCatVerbs>TinoDidriksen: I have nothing in particular against mIRC, but I really do hope for your sake that you keep up to date with the latest version.
18:56<MyCatVerbs>It has a rather alarming number of historical vulnerabilities for a program whose stated purpose is to communicate with a whole pile of people whom you don't necessarily trust.
18:57<AC6000>ah ha!
18:57<AC6000>he dumped the grfs in the wrong place :P
18:57<planetmaker>of course
18:57-!-snorre_ [~snorre@cE52DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:58<MyCatVerbs>AC6000: Not surprising. Happens to us all at least once. ^_^
18:58<planetmaker>hm... does it?
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>i never did that.
18:58<@Rubidium>lies!
18:58<AC6000>lol
18:58<MyCatVerbs>Well not necessarily with OpenTTD.
18:59<AC6000>the data has .tar files, is that the right one?
18:59<MyCatVerbs>But there're enough programs one can install for shits and giggles that one's practically guaranteed to screw something up sooner or later. ^^
19:00<MyCatVerbs>AC6000: tar files are tape archives. You're meant to unpack them. On OS X you should just be able to double click 'em. Or tar xvf foo.tar # in Terminal.app. :)
19:00<planetmaker>AC6000: depends the right for what :-)
19:00<@Rubidium>not when your package manager takes care of everything
19:00<planetmaker>MyCatVerbs: you're not meant to unpack them
19:00<@Rubidium>MyCatVerbs: uhm... not needed
19:00<@Rubidium>OpenTTD reads them perfectly fine
19:00<MyCatVerbs>planetmaker, Rubidium: Oh, OpenTTD unpacks them transparently? Whoops.
19:00<MyCatVerbs>AC6000: Don't listen to me. :D
19:00<AC6000>lol
19:01<AC6000>but all grfs go in there?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>MyCatVerbs: they are not compressed, openttd can read the files directly out of the tar
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>AC6000: no, you don't have to put the grfs into a tar, but if they are, you can leave them there
19:02<planetmaker>all grf may go there, yes
19:02<AC6000>i ment do they go into the same folder as the .tar files
19:02<Nite_Owl>they can also be in sub folders of the data folder
19:02<@Rubidium>yup
19:03<Nite_Owl>if you like to keep them organized by type
19:04<planetmaker>not the worst of ideas :-)
19:06<Nite_Owl>or by heading if you use the grf list dividers
19:07<AC6000>btw, i'll have a game up if anyone wants to join :)
19:09<Yexo>AC6000: from http://www.openttd.org/en/servers: "There are 119 clients, 152 IPv4 servers and 0 IPv6 servers."
19:10<Yexo>there are enough servers and not enough players
19:11<AC6000>lol
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19:14<@Rubidium>ooh, a server with a version number one doesn't regularly see: r17302-0.7 :)
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>cool... how does he think he will get clients?
19:15<Nite_Owl>a custom blend
19:15<@Rubidium>well, he *has* clients
19:15<OwenS>O_o
19:15<@Rubidium>well, more 'client'. Anyhow, 2 people on 1 server
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>someone wanted some kind of privacy, probably ;)
19:16<OwenS>People compiled the head of the 0.7 branch to connect to it? O_o
19:16<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Passwords are better for privacy :p
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the backports were important to him
19:16<AC6000>ok, i don't know if my server turned up. any volunteers? :P
19:17<AC6000>look for AC6000's game :P
19:18<@Rubidium>ghehe... if I wanted a private version that'd be easy; first of all I'd change the join protocol slightly. Knocks of everyone who hasn't got the binary
19:18<@Rubidium>AC6000: it's not there
19:18<AC6000>on ottd itself?
19:19<Yexo>AC6000: if it's not listed here http://www.openttd.org/en/servers it's not visible for other openttd clients
19:19<@Rubidium>no, though it isn't in the server list
19:19-!-Aankhen`` [~foo@122.162.167.218] has quit []
19:19<AC6000>:S
19:19<AC6000>well, i opened the ports....
19:19<planetmaker>on the router?
19:19<AC6000>and my friend confirmed it worked
19:19<AC6000>yes
19:20<@Rubidium>well, then you're not advertising
19:20<AC6000>yes i am
19:20<@Rubidium>and he entered the IP/DNS manually
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19:20<planetmaker>gotta sleep. Have a good night everyone.
19:21<AC6000>ummm...
19:21<@Rubidium>AC6000: last online was 2009-08-27 23:19:03
19:21<Nite_Owl>later planetmaker
19:21<@Rubidium>which is kinda not today
19:21<AC6000>O_o
19:22<AC6000>it detected it when i used hamachi!?
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19:22<@Rubidium>I don't know what you did
19:22<welshdragon>/memory block: how do i delete AI companies?
19:22<@Rubidium>but a server with AC6000 in the name did advertise itself back then
19:22<Yexo>stop_ai <company_id> in console
19:23<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> AC6000: last online was 2009-08-27 23:19:03 <-- if that is UTC, it looks like almost exactly 24h ago
19:24<welshdragon>thanks Yexo
19:24<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it is
19:24<Yexo>I should figure out how to learn nforenum some new featuers
19:24<Yexo>counting bytes manually isn't fun
19:25<@Rubidium>where would you need to count bytes?
19:25<@Rubidium>isn't -1 enough?
19:25<@Rubidium>(or 0)
19:25<AC6000>ok, the ports are correct, but i don't know where to find the IP/DNS
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>can't you use "wc" to count bytes?
19:26<Yexo>-1 only works if you feed it through nforenum first
19:26<Yexo>and nforenum crashes on my nfo
19:26<@Rubidium>ouch...
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>you should bitchslap DaleStan for that ;)
19:26<@Rubidium>Yexo: using x86_64?
19:26<Yexo>Rubidium: no
19:27<Yexo>but using action features 10/0D which aren't defined yet in the newgrf standard
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me that i wanted to write a compiler... but i have no sense of persistence to finish such a project...
19:28<@Rubidium>oh, that project :)
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: but why does it crash, and not simply reject it as invalid?
19:29<AC6000>btw, how do you find past servers?
19:29<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: I have no idea
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>AC6000: link earlier
19:30<Yexo>DaleStan: nforenum crashes when I use feature 10 in action 0/2/3, is that expected (feature 10 is undocumented) or should it reject and not crash instead?
19:30<planetmaker>hm... a crash should still be reported...
19:30<planetmaker>crash is always wrong
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>no program should ever crash on invalid data
19:31<@Rubidium>AC6000: with my searching skills
19:31<AC6000><_<
19:31<@Rubidium>resulting in e.g. http://www.openttd.org/en/server/13779
19:31<Ammler>openttd crashes when you set vehicle weight to 0 ;-)
19:31<planetmaker>really?
19:31<Yexo>there are more ways to crash openttd with invalid newgrfs
19:31<Ammler>just saw that when I made the logic train: http://pastebin.ca/1545968
19:32<Ammler>properity 16 0 -> crash
19:32<@Rubidium>well... there's a shitload of NewGRF stuff that can cause crashes
19:32<@Rubidium>or fracked up savegames
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19:33<Ammler>someone able to tell me, why the nfo has those warnings?
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19:33<@Rubidium>Ammler: speed isn't a dword?
19:34<Ammler>ups, just word
19:34<planetmaker>and date a dword
19:34<Ammler>that is
19:34<planetmaker>but you really should use for introduction date the descriptive \w1920-00-00
19:34<@Rubidium>uhm, dates are a word too, unless they're long dates
19:35<planetmaker>eh, yes. \w :-)
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19:36<Eddi|zuHause>what's feature 10 anyway? airports?
19:36<planetmaker>^
19:37<Ammler>planetmaker: it is long date format :-)
19:37<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: nah, rather airport tiles
19:37<Ammler>so \d1 should be fine
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>i once was wondering about how every tile (like roads, rails, etc.) could have state machines for vehicles
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>so you could have, like "drive through buildings" and stuff
19:39<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: airport tiles
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>and a road vehicle going from one tile to another will just hook into that tile's state machine
19:40<Ammler>hmm, does it need a new GRFID to change the Name?
19:40<Ammler>(on bananas)
19:40<AC6000>well, i'll be in ottd, if anyone wants to join, pm me :P
19:41<planetmaker>I guess we all could have our own server :-)
19:41<planetmaker>Ammler: how can a grf not have a grfid?
19:42<Ammler>dunno, afaik, Action8 is required
19:42<Yexo>Ammler: open a feature request for changing the name on bananas
19:42<Ammler>Yexo: so no reason?
19:43<Yexo>Ammler: I have no idea why it isn't possible
19:43<Yexo>TrueBrain or Rubidium may have an answer
19:43<Ammler>hmm, maybe because of the tarname
19:44<planetmaker>Yexo: will the newgrf be part of the airports branch?
19:44<Yexo>planetmaker: not for now
19:44<planetmaker>if not, could you e-mail / forum mail it to me, please?
19:44<AC6000>oh, is there any interference between Operateing systems on ottd?
19:45<planetmaker>there's not, AC6000
19:45<Yexo>planetmaker: no problem, but it doesn't work yet
19:45<planetmaker>he...
19:45<Yexo>that is, you can build airports (rotated and all), but there is no code yet for a state machine
19:45<planetmaker>ah, ok
19:46<planetmaker>so... planes won't know what to do and probably cannot land
19:46<Yexo>worse: openttd will crash if you try
19:46<planetmaker>:-D
19:46<Yexo>if you just want to have an idea of the code, here is the nfo: http://pastebin.org/13019
19:46<planetmaker>"And our next destination is ... armageddon ;-)"
19:47<Ammler>isn't it somehow possible to just use the other code and switch x<->y
19:47<Yexo>Ammler: I have that working, but not connected to the newgrf code
19:47<Yexo>so you can have rotated newgrf airports, but the normal airports aren't rotated
19:48<Yexo>what I currenctly need is some override original airport code
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'll just let my suggestion fly in the air... maybe the state machines for airports can be designed with that in mind, that possibly all tiles could have state machines (e.g. to let vehucles take non-straight paths through tiles, like one way roads getting different overtaking algorithm, or separating trams from busses and lorries)
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19:51<Ammler>Yexo: NoAirport :-)
19:51<Ammler>NoAir
19:52<Yexo>NoAIr, I like that:)
19:52<Yexo>how to confuse new players even more
19:52<Ammler>yes, exactly :-D
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>people are already confused by talking about YAPP signals
19:55<Ammler>do planes have sprites to land and takeoff from north-south?
19:55<Ammler>or here northwest-southeast
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19:56<Eddi|zuHause>why wouldn't they?
19:56<Ammler>because there is no need now, is there?
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>and isn't this only a newgrf issue?
19:56<Ammler>I don't use airports mostly, so I might not know it.
19:57<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: yes, the question is, does it need new sprites to support that, or is that already there.
20:02<welshdragon>hmm
20:02<welshdragon>i've found a bug, but i don't know if i t relates to IS 2 Beta 3
20:03<OwenS>Does takeoff/landing use special sprites?
20:03<welshdragon>or to trunk...
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: cool, we don't know either
20:03<Yexo>OwenS: I think so, but I'm not sure about the default sprites
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: i believe newgrfs can use varaction2 for detecting wether an aircraft is in the takeoff phase
20:04<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: i change the company colour in the new colour scheme window, but the individual vehicle (rail, road, air, sea) don't change to the global setting
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: that might be a newgrf bug
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20:05<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: but it's worked fine before...
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>or some kind of cache not being invalidated
20:05*welshdragon suspects IS2 B3
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: try to reproduce it in trunk
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>i heard about some newgrfs having problems with incorrect company colours
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>especially in vehicle chains, where the first vehicle changed, but the rest did not
20:07<welshdragon>EddizuHause it's a trunk bug too in 0.7.1 (i don't have 0.7.2
20:07<welshdragon>)
20:07<Ammler>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset/repository/changes/sprites/png/Airbus/A330/A330-300/Lufthansa.png <-- indeed, newgrfs have a lot more sprites.
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>0.7 is not trunk
20:08<welshdragon>...
20:08<welshdragon>trunk as in a nightly?
20:08<Ammler>trunk as not 0.7 branch :-)
20:09<welshdragon>ok
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>yes. a nightly that is not older than a few days will probably do
20:10<Ammler>well, but I guess, also bugs for 0.7 can be reported.
20:10<Yexo>Ammler: it looks like those planes already have NW<>SE land/takeoff sprites :)
20:10<Ammler>yexo, indeed, :-)
20:10<Yexo>also bugs for 0.7 can be reported. <- in that case use the latest stable, so 0.7.2
20:11<welshdragon>yeah, it'll have to wait
20:11<welshdragon>im on a 512kbps connection
20:11<welshdragon>(supposedly broadband)
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>thst's still better thsn mine
20:13<OwenS>Thats about what I get during peak hours. When my ISP throttles me for using too much bandwidth ;p
20:13<welshdragon>heh
20:13<OwenS>Normally I get about 8mbit/s... which I ought to ring them up about since this is a 16mb/s plan
20:13<OwenS>20mb/s even... wtf brain?
20:20<MyCatVerbs>OwenS: heehee, NARF.
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 29 00:00:33 2009