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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-01

---Logopened Tue Sep 01 00:00:37 2009
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01:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: no; primarily because not adding ../../ works for many other files
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04:04<TrueBrain>Yexo: have you read my request in tha tother channel?
04:04<TrueBrain>blathijs: have you read my request in tha tother channel?
04:07<TrueBrain>(yesterday around 21:00, FYI :p)
04:07<blathijs>TrueBrain: Yeah, I was silently agreeing :-)
04:07<TrueBrain>I don't do silent ;)
04:07<TrueBrain>tnx
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04:26<Terkhen>good morning
04:30<Noldo>morning
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04:39<planetmaker>good morning
04:40<Yexo>TrueBrain: yes, it's fine :)
04:40<planetmaker>Yexo, did you look at the movement of the airplanes in the title game?
04:40<planetmaker>look especially at the planes incoming from upper left
04:40<TrueBrain>Yexo: tnx
04:40<planetmaker>they have - with one of your changes to their movement now IMO an ugly movement path in the airport holding pattern
04:40<planetmaker>like bouncing at the injection point
04:42<Yexo>planetmaker: I'll be adding 3 more injections points per airport today
04:42<Yexo>so every airport will have 4 insertion points
04:42<planetmaker>:-) That's, of course, the WAY better solution.
04:42*planetmaker hugs Yexo
04:43<planetmaker>also, but you're surely aware of it, the movement on some airports could use improvement wrt unnecessary turning in some places
04:44<Yexo>I haven't checked the movement onthe airports themself too good
04:44<Yexo>so if you have a list of points that could be improved that would be great :)
04:45<planetmaker>Ok, I'll keep that in mind as an easy task without thinking :-)
04:46<planetmaker>one I know: international: when on the landing strip still, there's an unnecessary turn (1/8 too much) when turning around at the end of it.
04:46<planetmaker>another, also there: right of the hangar, when planes go to the (un)loading spot there, they turn frantically, just in order to proceed as they went before.
04:47<planetmaker>others I haven't checked or don't remember right now.
04:47<Pikka>hmmports...
04:48<Yexo>planetmaker: the one at the end of the landing strip is obvious
04:48<Yexo>but I don't see a problem before the hangar
04:48<Yexo>Pikka: I'm (very loosely) implementing http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Newgrf_Airports_Documentation this spec of you :)
04:48<planetmaker>hm... worry, I think it was international, not intercontinental, the last one
04:49<Pikka>yexo: seriously? OO;;;
04:49<planetmaker>(the one with two landing strips on the right)
04:49<Yexo>ok, I'll check that one
04:49<planetmaker>or rather: one landing, one take-off
04:49<planetmaker>but wait for the list, if you want :-)
04:50<Yexo>ok :)
04:50<Pikka>how loosely? :P if you need any test grfs, let me know.
04:51<planetmaker>Pikka, he needs decent test grfs with appropriate graphics :-)
04:51<Yexo>not all action0 variables have the same id etc.
04:51<Yexo>that can be easily changed of course
04:51<Yexo>and I'm currently working on the state machine callback
04:52<TrueBrain>Yexo: but but but but but but but ... isn't that deemed impossible?!?!?! :p :p :p
04:52<TrueBrain>hihi
04:52<Yexo>as soon as I have that working I'll post a patch on tt-forums, but before that a test airport would be very nice
04:52<Yexo>TrueBrain: hehe :)
04:52<Yexo>I already have a very basic version working, so it certainly isn't impossible
04:53<@Rubidium>always nice to see stuff taken out of context :)
04:53<TrueBrain>Rubidium: don't you just love that? :)
04:54<Pikka>hmm, okay. I'll get on my real computer in a second... I had a test grf that I was making for steven which already has some graphics in, but I don't know if you've used the same feature numbers etc. and I haven't implemented the statemachine yet...
04:55<Yexo>I've used 10 for airport tiles and 0D for airports (as feature number)
04:55<Pikka>How does this look? http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Av8ports_testing ... 'tis about as simple as an airport can get. I'll try and get it up to spec for you.
04:55<Pikka>brb
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04:58<Yexo>Pikka: looks like that can be very easily modified so I can load it as a real airport
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05:11<Eddi|zuHause>wow... i just found a set of wagons + steam engine that was missing
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05:31<Aankhen``>After copying over the TTD gm/ directory to the OpenTTD root directory, what else do I have to do to get the music working?
05:32<Pikka>Yexo: I'll switch out the feature numbers, and I'll have to work on the nodes (I don't know how the coordinate system should work...)... or would you rather just have the sources so you can do it yourself? :o
05:33<Yexo>coordinates are pixel offsets from the north tile
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05:34<Aankhen``>Okay, telling the jukebox to shuffle seems to work.
05:34<Yexo>http://pastebin.org/13892 I don't have a spec currently (other then your proposed one), but this is a remake of the small airport with an extra rotation
05:34<Pikka>hmm
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05:36<Pikka>rotation? :o
05:36<Yexo>just define an extra tile layout and you're done :)
05:37<Yexo>nodes are automatically rotated, callbacks ust use node numbers so don't need rotating at all
05:37<Pikka>right :o
05:38<Pikka>and the return "turn to heading" is automatically adjusted? :P if you're going to use that part of my spec...?
05:38<Yexo>I'm just beginning to implement the state machine callback
05:38<Pikka>it would be good to have an airport var which reports the rotation, so that the statemachine can be adjusted for alternate headings if desired.
05:39<Yexo>but indeed, that will be rotated automatically
05:39*Pikka nods
05:39<Yexo>an airport var with the rotation is no problem at all
05:39<Yexo>but there shouldn't be a need for it
05:40<Pikka>*shrugs*
05:40<Pikka>for eyecandy purposes, a creator might want the different airport rotation layouts to be slightly different. it's worth having, just so it's there if anyone wants it...
05:41<Yexo>there I agree :)
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05:42<Pikka>what are the feature bytes again? sorry...
05:42<Pikka>feel free to edit the wiki page btw, or add notes on the talk page. :}
05:43<Yexo>10 for airport tiles and 0D for airports
05:43<Pikka>rgr
05:45<Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/renum_data_airports.zip <- data files for nforenum that support my currently implemented spec
05:45<Pikka>thanks :)
05:46<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
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05:49<Pikka>hmm, it's not happy with feat.dat
05:49<Pikka>or...
05:49<Pikka>hmm
05:49<Pikka>"2v.dat contains information for fewer features than does feat.dat."
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05:50<Yexo>not sure how that happened
05:50<Yexo>is it loading the correct file?
05:51<Pikka>I just dropped everything you sent into .renum
05:51<Pikka>perhaps my renum is out of date
05:52<Yexo>that shouldn't effect this at all
05:52<Yexo>hmm, unless some version number was updated and nforenum overwrites 2v.dat with it's internal version
05:53<Pikka>eh, I downloaded the latest version and it works, so.. :)
05:54<Yexo>ok, great :)
05:54<Yexo>so I should probably update the versino of those .dat files, but I don't understand what number to update exactly
05:54<Yexo>will see about that later
06:00<Pikka>the node coordinates are ala http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/img/wiki_up//coordinates3d.png ?
06:01<Pikka>from the top corner of the tile at 0,0 of the airport?
06:01<Yexo>looks like it
06:01<Pikka>okiedokie
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06:05<Eddi|zuHause>ok... apparently i am lacking an axle now
06:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17338 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Feature(tte): Add extra entry points for all airports so planes don't make strange turns when entering the holding stack
06:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17339 /trunk/ (25 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: move thread related files to their own directory (like done for video, music, sound, etc)
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07:03<cipi97>Hi
07:04<Yexo>hello cipi97
07:04<cipi97>Can anybody answer me at a questions
07:04<Yexo>maybe
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07:04<Yexo>it depends on the questions
07:04<cipi97>Sorry for my enghlish , but i am romanian
07:04<cipi97>:D
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>that is still not a question
07:04<cipi97>How can i introduce a new company?
07:05<Yexo>a computer opponent?
07:05<cipi97>yes
07:05<Yexo>just type "start_ai" in the console
07:05<cipi97>thanks very musch :D
07:05<planetmaker>and make sure you configured to be that AI of the type you want.
07:05<Yexo>or increase the nr of competitors in the difficulty window and wait till they appear
07:06<cipi97>??
07:07<cipi97>Can me explain about "and make sure you configured to be that AI of the type you want."?
07:07<Yexo>in the main menu there is a button AI ssettings, click it and you can configure different AIs
07:08<cipi97>And how can I stop a company?
07:08<Yexo>stop_ai <company_id>
07:08<cipi97>Or delete a company?
07:08<cipi97>Thanks ;)
07:10<Yexo>Pikka: in your spec the newgrf does all state changes, right?
07:11<cipi97>What is the company ID?
07:11<Yexo>isn't it a better idea of instead making the newgrf use "1 = change the movement state to the value specified in the low byte and reiterate ", just make another return value "arrived at current state" and let openttd handle the transitions between states?
07:11<Yexo>as handling the current state also has to be done by openttd (loading, servicing, etc.)
07:12<Yexo>cipi97: 1 for your own company, 2 for the first AI, etc.
07:12<Yexo>but if you delete AI 2 the companyid of the 3rd company doesn't change
07:14<cipi97>Thanks
07:14<cipi97>It not works
07:14<cipi97>:((
07:15<cipi97> :'(
07:15<Yexo>what _exactly_ did you type? and what _exactly_ was the result you got?
07:15<cipi97>stop_ai <2>
07:15<Yexo>make that "stop_ai 2"
07:16<Yexo>the <> were just to denote it was a variable you had to fill in
07:16<cipi97>Unknown company. Company range is between 1 and 15
07:16<cipi97>aaa...
07:16<cipi97>thanks
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07:27<cipi97>HELP!
07:28<@Rubidium>ANSWER?
07:29<cipi97>I don't now to explain very good in english
07:29<cipi97>Is anybody romanian Here?
07:29<cipi97>It seems is not
07:29<Pikka><Yexo> Pikka: in your spec the newgrf does all state changes, right? <- yep. the state is stored in the airport's var 7C
07:30<Pikka>and changed via var2advanced operator 10
07:30<Yexo>what I ment was the vehicle state, ie FLYING/HANGAR?TERM1/etc.
07:30<Pikka>oh
07:30<Pikka>yeah, I just read the rest of what you wrote, and I see that :P
07:31<cipi97>I have an AI, Street Traffic, and I want to delete It from my computer. Can you help me?
07:31<Yexo>cipi97: open the ai debug panel
07:31<Yexo>it's under the red question mark
07:31<Yexo>oh, hmm, delete from your computer
07:31<Yexo>it's most likely in "My Documents/OpenTTD/content_download/ai/"
07:32<Xaroth>i should stop trying to outtype yexo on a phone....
07:32<Yexo>ust stop typing on a phone :)
07:34<Pikka>Yexo: I'd say the only problem with letting OTTD handle the movement state is that it reduces the flexibility
07:34<Xaroth>yexo: im too much of a geek for that...
07:34<Yexo>Pikka: what if the newgrf gets the question "Can we change the state to xxx on position yyy"?
07:35<Pikka>gets the question? from where?
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07:35<Yexo>sorry, let me describe it better
07:37<Yexo>your spec: vehicle goes to loading bay, arrives, callback to newgrf->result = change to state LOADING, done loading, callback -> result = change state to GOING_TO_TAKEOFF, arrived there, callback->result = change state to TAKEOFF, etc.
07:37<Pikka>yup
07:38<Yexo>my proposal: vehicle goes to loading bay (state = TERM1), openttd changes state to loading (because it's a loading bay, done loading, openttd wants to change state to GOING_TO_TAKEOFF but ask newgrf whether this is ok
07:38<Yexo>it might be only a subtle chagne, but this allows openttd to handle go-to-depot orders while the aircraft is in the airport
07:39<Yexo>and not only manual orders, but also the need for servicing etc.
07:39<Pikka>the callback can't handle that?
07:39<Yexo>maybe it can, but I think that's too much information for the callback then
07:40<Pikka>hmmm... how so?
07:41<Yexo>on the other hand, doing it completely in the newgrf allows the newgrf to define more states without the need of changing openttd code
07:41<Pikka>the advantage of using callbacks rather than a "hard-coded" system is that it allows grf creators to do things that the programmers hadn't thought of. exactly. :)
07:42<Pikka>for example, with the callback, I could model rejected take-offs, without ottd needing to know about it.
07:42<cipi97>I deleted Street Traffic
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07:42<Yexo>ok, so I'll go with your callback system :)
07:43<cipi97>But in the game i press start_ai and appears Street Traffic and ERROR. :((
07:43<Yexo>cipi97: exit the game and start it again
07:43<cipi97>Help me!
07:44<cipi97>Thanks ;)
07:44<cipi97>But I want te be the same game
07:45<Yexo>so save the game first and load it after you restarted openttd?
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07:51<cipi97>It works ;)
07:52<cipi97>And the last question: Where is my monument in the town?
07:52<planetmaker>wherever you built it.
07:52<Yexo>it's build randomly near the center, at least if you build one
07:52<planetmaker>oh, he :-P
07:53<planetmaker>believe Yexo in case of doubt, not me ;-)
07:53<Yexo>planetmaker: company HQ != statue of company owner
07:53<Yexo>not sure which one he ment
07:53<planetmaker>Yexo, I know
07:53<cipi97>I don't see the monument
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07:54<planetmaker>But as I never built statues, I wasn't aware anymore that they're places *somehwere* randomly
07:54<Yexo>cipi97: and you did build one?
07:54<cipi97>and i build it in all cities
07:54<TrueBrain>have you built it?
07:54<Yexo>then show us a screenshot of a town you build one in
07:54<cipi97>ok
07:54<planetmaker>cipi97, it's not like it's standing out much.
07:54<planetmaker>It's just another place with stones and a piece of art in the middle.
07:55<planetmaker>but it has the noteworthy property of indestructability.
07:56<cipi97>But i don't know how it look
07:57<Doorslammer>Gah, not again
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07:57<Doorslammer>Nightly slow to download and often fails
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07:59<@Rubidium>Doorslammer: that's likely your (ISP's) connection
07:59<TrueBrain>given the fact for the last hour we have been pushing 4 mbit/sec from the server, I guess it is a local issue ;)
07:59<@Rubidium>as it works just fine for me, okay TrueBrain will complain it's slow, but 1.8 MiB/s seems reasonable
08:00<TrueBrain>Rubidium: yesterday I downloaded a few thingies at 7.8 MiB/s, so yeah :p
08:00<Doorslammer>27 minutes remaining
08:00<Doorslammer>Good grief :/
08:01<TrueBrain>I guess you should consider using a download accelerator :)
08:02<Doorslammer>Hmmm, something to overexcite the hamsters in the compy box you say?
08:02<Doorslammer>"Spin that wheel faster!"
08:02<TrueBrain>it avoids 'retries' because of failures
08:02<TrueBrain>they allow resuming
08:05<@Rubidium>hmm, the website of Sydney is slow for me; so it likely has something to do with the NL<->AU connection
08:05<@Rubidium>and not OpenTTD's server
08:06<Doorslammer>Oh bum, not good
08:06<Doorslammer>< 20 minutes remaining
08:09<TrueBrain>Rubidium: well, define 'slow'
08:09<TrueBrain>I mean, it is a 80ms trip for the light alone
08:10<@Rubidium>it's still not finished loading some random page
08:10<TrueBrain>how .. science-like :p
08:10<Doorslammer>Failed again
08:10<TrueBrain>from PaIX to sydney is the bottleneck, I only have troubles finding the geolocation of PaIX :p
08:11<TrueBrain>Doorslammer: I say it just once again: install a download accelerator
08:11<TrueBrain>it allows resuming
08:11<TrueBrain>else: shut up about failures, as you only have yourself to blame :)
08:12<TrueBrain>lol, traffic to au is routed via US :)
08:12<TrueBrain>it leaves this country via the normal london peering to the US (washington or the like)
08:13<Doorslammer>Charming
08:13<TrueBrain>that leg is a 80ms leg
08:13<TrueBrain>there it travels to California .. another 80ms
08:13<TrueBrain>then it travels to sydney, a good 160ms
08:13<TrueBrain>then it enters a fucking slow backbone ... 60ms to reach your local ISP hub
08:14<TrueBrain>Sydney -> Melbourne -> Adelaide -> Perth
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08:15<cipi97>Enter on my server!
08:15<Doorslammer>Must be all those South Australians cutting the cables, attempting to siphon out oil
08:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17340 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp: -Fix: old loader tried to load a uint8 into a uint16
08:15<cipi97>His name is Transclub!!
08:15-!-cipi97 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I will not be commanded]
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08:15<cipi97>It is not a comand
08:16<cipi97>It is an reclam
08:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17341 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: memory leak when trying to bankrupt the local company
08:16<Doorslammer><cipi97> Enter on my server!
08:16<Doorslammer>Looks fairly commanding
08:16<cipi97>I don't know very good english
08:17<cipi97>I am romanian
08:17<TrueBrain>Doorslammer: even if I try to reroute a bit of traffic, I can't reach your country in any sane time :) So I guess you are always a bit screwed ;)
08:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17342 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix: reset bankruptcy checks when bankruptcy has been averted and don't set an unused timeout with a magic number
08:17-!-reldred [~reldred@115.131.217.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:17<Doorslammer>Thats the joys of living in a backwards continent
08:17<cipi97>Question: How can i donate moneys at another company?
08:18<TrueBrain>yup .. I just wonder why all traffic is routed via the US
08:18<Doorslammer>CIA conspiracy
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08:18<TrueBrain>cipi97: http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer <- use the search
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08:20<Ammler>TrueBrain: Rubidium, is it now possible to upload older versions to bananas? Maybe I made that post to early. http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=814642#p814642
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08:21<Ammler>+o
08:21<TrueBrain>Ammler: you can only upload newer files
08:21<TrueBrain>but there is no check what is 'newer' and 'older'
08:22<TrueBrain>just a check if it already exists
08:22<Ammler>well, if they would agree to upload the older files, would you fix the "newer" flag, after?
08:22<TrueBrain>if they have a 'newer' version then the current, that would fix itself (if that is uploaded last)
08:24<TrueBrain>why do people not verify their email ... hotmaill.com .. gmail (no TLD), ...
08:24<Ammler>so the easiest would be, they load the old files up and then a newer version as the current. But if they won't update?
08:24<TrueBrain>then you can always ask us
08:25<TrueBrain>nearly 3M downloads via BaNaNaS (since launch)
08:25<Ammler>well, it is only ISR and GRVTS
08:26<Ammler>which has incompatible versions with same ID.
08:26<Ammler>have*
08:26<Pikka>truebrain: if you're fiddling with bananananananas, can you fix NARS 2,03 to 2.03? D;
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08:26<TrueBrain>Pikka: hmm .. that might be tricky, as the files are also named as such
08:26<TrueBrain>let me check
08:26<Ammler>2.04, Pikka :-)
08:27<Pikka>yebbut :P
08:27<Pikka>it doesn't matter if not :)
08:28<TrueBrain>I can't find any entry named NARS :p
08:28<TrueBrain>ah, written out :)
08:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17343 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: it's bankruptcy, not bankrupcy, according to my Oxford Dictionary of English and Merriam-Webster.
08:29<FauxFaux><3
08:29<TrueBrain>Pikka: fixed; only the filename is 'wrong' :) (it has a _ where it could have been a . :p)
08:31<Ammler>Pikka: you could also upload the old NARS and set max version to < 0.7
08:31<Ammler>so we could remove that grf too and it wouldn't be downloaded from content service.
08:31<TrueBrain>wouldn't?
08:32<Yexo>TrueBrain: that's "wouldn't" as in "not unless someone loads an old savegame
08:32<Ammler>8b73d8c3f5922ad35ae6f292a7b735e6 44 44 03 01 z_obsolete/pb_nars/pb_nars.grf <-- this one is in our pack.
08:32<Ammler>thanks Yexo :-)
08:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17344 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_event_types.cpp ai_event_types.hpp): -Codechange: splash of coding style over ai_event_types.*
08:35<Pikka>thanks TrueBrain :)
08:35<TrueBrain>no problem at all :)
08:37<Ammler>Pikka: if you do, drop a note, so I know, I can remove it.
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08:39<Pikka>ok
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08:41<cipi97>hOW CAN i DONATE MONEY AT ANOTHER COMPANY?
08:42<FauxFaux>Step 1: Press capslock.
08:42<z-MaTRiX>paypal? bank transfer?
08:43<cipi97>No, in the game
08:43<cipi97>At multi player
08:43<Yexo>cipi97: read the answers given: <TrueBrain> cipi97: http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer <- use the search
08:45<Yexo>Pikka: any reason for the 'gap' of state machine return values?
08:45<cipi97>thnaks
08:45<cipi97>And how i can add a server ??
08:46<TrueBrain>[14:43] <Yexo> cipi97: read the answers given: <TrueBrain> cipi97: http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer <- use the search
08:46<TrueBrain>for crying out loud
08:48<cipi97>And how i can listen music in the tonomate with jazz?
08:49<TrueBrain>do we really need to hold your hand that much?
08:49<cipi97>What? I do not understand?
08:49<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: you're not learning the trick either :(
08:50<@Belugas>hello
08:50<TrueBrain>cipi97: go to http://wiki.openttd.org/
08:50<TrueBrain>USE THE SEARCH
08:50<Yexo>hello Belugas
08:50*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
08:50<@Rubidium>youpidou! :)
08:50<TrueBrain>Rubidium: better?
08:50<@Belugas>puuuurrrr puuurrrrr puuuuurrr
08:50<cipi97>Who want to enter at my server? It's name is Transclub!!
08:50*cipi97 standing
08:50<@Belugas>howdi TrueBrain :)
08:50-!-cipi97 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [this is not a channel to advertise your server]
08:51<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if you did /ignore cipi97, then yes
08:53<Pikka>yexo: you mean the jump from 3 to 8 and the lack of a B? not really, it just ended up that way.
08:54<Yexo>ok :)
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08:56<cipi97>HELP ME!!! I don't find on wiki openttd, and I want to listen music at the tonomate with jazz. How i can meke this?
08:56<Yexo>and what should the "throw the allert message specified in the low byte"-results do exactly?
08:56<Yexo>is that for newgrf debugging?
08:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17345 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#2769]: one wasn't offered to take over bankrupt companies anymore; caused by the introduction NoAI, although NewAI had the same problem too.
08:57<cipi97>HELP ME!!! I don't find on wiki openttd, and I want to listen music at the tonomate with jazz. How i can make this?
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08:58<TrueBrain>@kban cipi97 don't be so ... annoying? demanding? what would be the word
08:58<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Error: cipi97 is not in #openttd.
08:58<TrueBrain>bah!
08:58<TrueBrain>:p
08:59<Ammler>what's a tonomate?
08:59<@Belugas>annoying, i'd say
09:00<TrueBrain>Ammler: I wondered the same
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09:00<TrueBrain>@mode +q cipi97
09:00-!-mode/#openttd [+q cipi97!*@*] by DorpsGek
09:00<TrueBrain>there :)
09:00<Pikka>yexo: do you have that example nfo of the small airport? not sure on the format of property 0b
09:01<Ammler>oh, "they" fixed Konversation, not owner anymore.
09:01<Yexo>Pikka: http://pastebin.org/13915 that's just prop 0b
09:02<Yexo>max x/y doesn't really belong there
09:02<Pikka>3, 7, 1? :o
09:03<z-MaTRiX>anybody need some linux script in help developing openttd?
09:03<Yexo>per line: x, y, z, flag, direction
09:04<Pikka>oh
09:04<Pikka>direction...
09:04<TrueBrain>z-MaTRiX: that is most likely one of the silliest question I read all day :) Vague .. unclear .. silly .. weird ... it fits all ;)
09:04<Pikka>nodes have directions?
09:04<z-MaTRiX><;
09:04<z-MaTRiX>hey TrueBrain
09:04<Yexo>Pikka: yes, but I'm not sure when exactly they are used currently
09:05<Yexo>I think only for loading positions
09:05<Pikka>hmm
09:06<Pikka>actually, yeah
09:06<Yexo>http://pastebin.org/13916 <- possible flags, not sure what will actually be supported
09:06<TrueBrain>there is a banlist .. is there also a mutelist? :)
09:06<Pikka>hmm
09:06<TrueBrain>btw, openttd.org pastebin was bommed again .. 61 'hanging' apache instances ...
09:07<TrueBrain>I hate apache ..
09:07<Pikka>I would suggest that, without building, the only flag that's needed is the contact point one, since the rest is all done by the callback
09:07<TinoDidriksen>Apache just needs a nightly restart...
09:07<Pikka>*without overbuilding
09:07<z-MaTRiX>TrueBrain<< in ircd ?
09:08<Pikka>with overbuilding, the extra flags for the hangar and bays allow aircraft on the ground to be moved (and that's when the direction value might be used)
09:09<Yexo>basically I just copied the existing node scheme already used by openttd (and added the z-coordinate)
09:09<Yexo>so for now just fill in dummy values for those, we'll see later if a usefull definitino can be found or maybe they should be removed completely
09:10<Pikka>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Newgrf_Airports_Documentation#Action_0_Airports
09:10<Pikka>xx xx yy yy zz zz dd ff.. sound reasonable
09:11<Pikka>?
09:11<Yexo>fine with me :)
09:12<Pikka>hmm
09:12<Yexo>what is the "contact point" flag exactly?
09:12<Pikka>I'm not sure what the canonical name is
09:12<Pikka>a place where the aircraft arrives at the airport?
09:12<Yexo>entry point is used in openttd code
09:12<Pikka>right, entry point
09:12<Yexo>but there can be multiple entry points per airport
09:13<Yexo>1 for each direction (ne/se/sw/nw)
09:13<Yexo>so that shouldn't be a flag of a node, but rather a seperate array with node numbers
09:13<@Belugas>one for each direction? is it mandatory?
09:13<Yexo>Belugas: yes, but multiple directions can have the same entry point
09:13<@Belugas>ok
09:13<Yexo>see r17338
09:14<Pikka>there, I changed that on the page
09:14*Belugas will check
09:14<Pikka>hmm @ each direction
09:14<Pikka>I'd imagined that they'd just find the closest one, but... I guess one for each direction is doable :)
09:15<Yexo>finding the closest can lead to very ugly turns
09:15<Yexo>planes truning 180 degrees in midair is not nice
09:15<@Rubidium>ooh, J turns with a plane, that I'd like to see :)
09:16<Pikka>hmm, but why would they do that? or more to the point, why would they be more likely to do that with "find the closest" than with directional ones?
09:16<Yexo>right, that shouldn't matter indeed
09:16<Yexo>so closest is fine then :)
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17346 /branches/0.7/ (18 files in 5 dirs):
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Document: how to manually install AIs
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Memory leak when trying to bankrupt the local company, other minor improvements of bankruptcy (r17342, r17341, r17340)
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Not all non-ASCII characters were entered with escapes in the About window (r17309)
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIRail::RemoveRailTrack returned ERR_PRECONDITION_ERROR for road/rail-crossings (r17307)
09:17<Pikka>the nasty turning tends to happen as the aircraft leaves the statemachine of the previous airport...
09:18<Yexo>indeed, maybe the statemachine can be given information on the next location so it can turn the plane nicely before letting it go
09:19<Pikka>yep :)
09:19<Pikka>that's what I was thinking :)
09:21<Pikka>and/or aircraft not attached to a statemachine could be limited in how often they're allowed to turn... hmmm
09:23<Pikka>hmmm
09:23<Pikka>actually
09:23<Yexo>I've updated http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Newgrf_Airports_Documentation#Action_0_Airports to reflect the current status
09:23<Pikka>now I look at it
09:23<Pikka>per-direction /might/ be better than "closest"
09:24<Pikka>closest could lead to a lot of 90 degree turns in angle cases
09:25<Pikka>hmm
09:26<Pikka>I'm not sure those two new properties are necessary, but I guess they can't hurt.
09:27<Yexo>a callback for that (can a plane land on this airport) is better, but this is simpler for now
09:27<Pikka>well
09:27<Pikka>"can a plane land at this airport" can already be done within the existing statemachine callback ;)
09:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17347 /branches/0.7/src/ (elrail.cpp rail_cmd.cpp): [0.7] -Fix (r17346): backport r16350 too as it fixes stuff a bug introduced by r16349, which was needed for the fix of r17307.
09:28<Yexo>return value F?
09:28<Yexo>or how can it be done with the current callback?
09:28*Belugas resumes his certification with Toronto guy. MasterCard, now, all day
09:28<@Belugas>you hou
09:29<Pikka>probably return value D, then F
09:30<Yexo>but what would var 10/11 contain in that case?
09:30<Yexo>ie how can the newgrf check "this is only a test, the aircraft doesn't enter right now"?
09:30<Pikka>eh?
09:31<Pikka>var 10 contains the id of the node, that's not altered by the callback
09:31<Yexo>you can't give an aircraft an order to go to a heliport, because it can't land there
09:31<Pikka>oh
09:31<Yexo>but that means that at the time you give the order a check "can aircraft land at airport" has to be done
09:31<Yexo>at that time no node / plan is known
09:32<Yexo>and if it is possible, the callback shouldn't set blocks as reserved because the aircraft isn't there yet
09:32<Pikka>well, I guess the heliport property could be used for that, but I'm really trying to abstract it
09:32<Pikka>and eliminate the concept of 'heliport' vs 'airport' at all...
09:32<Yexo>that's what I currently use that property for, but that's why I thought about a seperate callback for this
09:33<Pikka>rather than disallowing giving the order, I've preferred giving a warning when the aircraft tries to land somewhere it can't
09:33<Pikka>and simply making the aircraft skip to the next order
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09:34<Yexo>for AIs to work with new airports they need to have this kind of information, if possible even before the airport is build
09:34<Pikka>ahh... yes...
09:34<Yexo>so even if giving the order is allowed, the information still needs to be available
09:36<Pikka>maybe we just need an "ai safe" flag for airports... it's far from ideal, but it'd stop 'em building outlandish things they can't use properly
09:37<Yexo>the problem with that is that a newgrf decides that all AIs can handle such an airport
09:37<Pikka>and all aircraft and airports will still have the large/small flag to fall back on...
09:38<Yexo>which isn't available to AIs currently
09:39<Yexo>but all of this can easily be changed later, first I'm going to implement the callback
09:39<Pikka>*nods*
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09:57<Yexo>Pikka: as long as the callback returns 2 it should be called again every tick, right?
10:02<Pikka>umm
10:03<Yexo>and "throw the alert message..." should that open the error box with a custom message?
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10:04<Pikka>not necessarily every tick...
10:04<Pikka>and... a pop-up message. like "train x is lost"
10:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17348 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt misc_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Fix: don't mix 'sort by' strings used for buttons and dropdowns
10:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17349 /trunk/src/lang/ (50 files in 2 dirs): -Update (r17348): apply changes to other lang files
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10:14<TrueBrain>@mode -q cipi97
10:14-!-mode/#openttd [-q cipi97!*@*] by DorpsGek
10:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: glx * r17350 /trunk/src/ (network/core/os_abstraction.h sdl.cpp): -Fix (r17336): broken compilation with mingw
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10:29<Pikka>later all! I'll try and get that grf finished soon, yexo.
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11:18<_ln>http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/bfs-faq.txt
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12:09<Dreamxtreme>hmm
12:09<Dreamxtreme>how do i edit the dependencies
12:09<Dreamxtreme>on bananas
12:10<Yexo>go to "Manager", click "Edit", select new dependencies, click "Edit"
12:12<TrueBrain>LOL! I just gave someone via a PM his 'last' friendly warning .. his reply: "I get PMs like this on every forum I visit..." ....
12:12<Dreamxtreme>KIK
12:12<Dreamxtreme>LOL
12:12<Yexo>lol :)
12:12<Dreamxtreme>even
12:12<+glx>TrueBrain: that's a nice someone ;)
12:13<Yexo>was it reddog maybe?
12:13<Dreamxtreme>i cant select any
12:13<TrueBrain>Yexo: good guess ;)
12:14<Dreamxtreme>dependencies
12:14<Doorslammer>lol
12:14<Dreamxtreme>nor do i see edit
12:14<TrueBrain>oh, I see another moderator just picked up that report too ;)
12:14<Yexo>first click on "Manager"
12:14<Yexo>then you see a list of things you uploaded
12:14<Dreamxtreme>yes do that
12:15<Dreamxtreme>done
12:15<Yexo>there is "Update", "Edit", etc. for every thing you've uploaded
12:15*planetmaker wonders who reddog might have been. Probably I'm lucky that I don't recall :-)
12:15<Yexo>made several annoying posts on the forum in the last few days
12:15<TrueBrain>he is just a few days here :p
12:16<Dreamxtreme>yes i clicked edit on my 0.4
12:16<Yexo>now you should see a box "Dependencies", and an "Edit" button at the bottom of the window
12:17<Dreamxtreme>nope
12:17<Dreamxtreme>no edit
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12:18<Yexo>maybe TrueBrain can help you
12:18<Doorslammer>Any fine examples of the exemplary whingeing on forum?
12:18<Doorslammer>I must have missed those
12:18<Yexo>Doorslammer: http://www.tt-forums.net/search.php?author_id=31682&sr=posts
12:18<Doorslammer>Cheers
12:19<Doorslammer>Preparing to be entertained
12:19<Doorslammer>Oh, THAT guy
12:19<planetmaker>uh-oh-uh. I guess I saw some of those.
12:19<planetmaker>They were caught by my internal spam filter, though ;-)
12:19<planetmaker>see-ignore-see-ignore ;-)
12:20<Dreamxtreme>lol
12:20<Dreamxtreme>ok yexo thanks
12:20<Doorslammer>Thats got to be a troll
12:20<Dreamxtreme>TrueBrain: ! ?
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12:21<Dreamxtreme>is Bananas fully Firefox compatible ? lol
12:21<Doorslammer>His post on Generic Cars must be trollworthy material
12:21<Yexo>Dreamxtreme: yes
12:21<TrueBrain>Dreamxtreme: what 'type' are you uploading?
12:21<Dreamxtreme>scenerio
12:21<Dreamxtreme>well updating
12:21<TrueBrain>a scenario can't depends on anything
12:21<Dreamxtreme>o
12:22<TrueBrain>-s
12:22<planetmaker>he :-)
12:22<Yexo>shouldn't a scenario depend on all used newgrfs?
12:22<planetmaker>^
12:22<TrueBrain>Yexo: nobody ever made a scenario which depended on a newgrf
12:22<planetmaker>TrueBrain, that's, of course, wrong
12:22<TrueBrain>I personally don't think that is the idea of a scenario, but okay
12:22<Yexo>TrueBrain: I doubt that, basically every scenario that includes newgrfs depend on them
12:22<TrueBrain>wouldn't OpenTTD just download them if available?
12:23<Yexo>probably yes :)
12:23<TrueBrain>so then I don't see any problem
12:23<Yexo>me neither
12:23<planetmaker>Though I am still not convinced that it is a good way, to have them hard-coded even with MD5 in a scenario.
12:23<planetmaker>But yes
12:23<planetmaker>But download, if available. Nice :-)
12:23<Yexo>planetmaker: so what would be better?
12:23<planetmaker>But having them as dependency, thus downloaded at the same time as the scenario, would be better
12:24<planetmaker>Yexo, something which is not possible would be better:
12:24<Dreamxtreme>so i cant stick newgrf in my scenario then
12:24<planetmaker>a list of newgrfs where the latest version would be used when started as game
12:24<Yexo>Dreamxtreme: you can do so without problems
12:24<Yexo>ah yes :)
12:24<planetmaker>Dreamxtreme, you can. But it makes sense to only use newgrfs which are readily available.
12:25<Dreamxtreme>yes i only have
12:25<planetmaker>And - honestly - vehicle newgrfs and station newgrfs are not really needed and can be added by the player.
12:25<planetmaker>But adding them as designer might be intended and advantagous in some places, too.
12:25<planetmaker>Just depends :-)
12:25<Dreamxtreme>UK Roadset 1.1a
12:26<TrueBrain>planetmaker: what if you have a newgrf which is not on BaNaNaS?
12:26<planetmaker>on bananas?
12:26<Dreamxtreme>UK Houses beta 0.2
12:26-!-Zephyris [~Zephyris@cpc2-oxfd14-0-0-cust861.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
12:26<planetmaker>TrueBrain, screwed. And same behaviour as now.
12:26<Dreamxtreme>Generic Cars 0.2
12:26-!-Zahl [~Zahl@e180224168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
12:26<planetmaker>No download. And you could still play it, if you get it manually.
12:26<Dreamxtreme>yes there all on bananas
12:26<planetmaker>It's just a usability improvement :-)
12:26<planetmaker>s/screwed/bad luck
12:27<planetmaker>TrueBrain, I'd categorize "download necessary newgrfs of a scenario" as a "very low" priority feature request :-)
12:27<TrueBrain>Rubidium: what do you say?
12:28<TrueBrain>planetmaker: well, adding the dep-tree is a matter of 1 table-entry-change
12:28<planetmaker>:-)
12:32-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
12:32<planetmaker>TrueBrain, but many "just a matter of 1 <whatever>" things start to eat time like no good, too, if stacked :-)
12:32<planetmaker>but you know that probably at least as well as myself :-P
12:33<Dreamxtreme>so then
12:34-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.161.12] has joined #openttd
12:34<Dreamxtreme>its they doesnt depend on newgrfs then
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12:36<Dreamxtreme>shall i put something in the infos anyway ?
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12:36<Dreamxtreme>it will come up with a error i think
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12:43<planetmaker>Dreamxtreme, an info which mentions them, certainly doesn't hurt :-)
12:44<Dreamxtreme>yes :D
12:44<Dreamxtreme>well i might as well add some more places to the map at the same time for the 0.5 update
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12:49<_ln>is it wrong to say Natalie Portman is an actor?
12:49<Dreamxtreme>someone name me some places to add in the UK for my map
12:50<Doorslammer>London is quite useful
12:50<_ln>Hull
12:50<Doorslammer>Birmingham
12:50<Dreamxtreme>added added added in 0.1 lol
12:50<Dreamxtreme>most big places are already added
12:51<Dreamxtreme>hmm
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12:52<Prof_Frink>Dreamxtreme: Princetown
12:52<Dreamxtreme>ooo
12:52<Dreamxtreme>good 1
12:52<Dreamxtreme>:D
12:53<Dreamxtreme>ive neglected devon and cornwall a bit
12:53<Prof_Frink>Hathersage. Ambleside. Betws-y-Coed.
12:53<Dreamxtreme>Hathersage ftw!
12:53<Dreamxtreme>went to
12:53<Dreamxtreme>Edale on thursday to
12:54<planetmaker>Inverness
12:54<planetmaker>Invercargil
12:54<planetmaker>and - of course - Loch Ness :-P
12:54*Prof_Frink is going to Hathersage in a couple of weeks
12:56<Dreamxtreme>nope
12:56<Dreamxtreme>no scotland planetmaker
12:56<Dreamxtreme>hightmap didnt have it
12:56<Doorslammer>Hes neglected Scotland
12:56<Doorslammer>Therefore is evil
12:56<Dreamxtreme>its too big to fit in
12:56<Dreamxtreme>lol
12:56<planetmaker>so not UK :-)
12:56<_ln>is there an englishman here to answer my earlier question?
12:57<Prof_Frink>_ln: Depends if she's had a sex change.
12:57<Dreamxtreme>no
12:57<Dreamxtreme>England & Wales
12:58-!-KritiK_ [~Maxim@78-106-153-3.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
12:58<_ln>Prof_Frink: yeah, i hope not. but what about: is it wrong to say Natalie Portman and Bruce Willis are actors?
12:59<Dreamxtreme>ok
12:59<Dreamxtreme>adding Hathersage now
13:00<+glx>_ln: the second version is correct
13:02<_ln>glx: that's what i assume too, and my actual point is whether the rules are exactly the same as with pronouns in Romance languages.
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13:05<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: don't care? (had a nicer dinner though)
13:05<_ln>i.e. one male in a group of females means that masculine pronouns are used about the group.
13:07<Doorslammer>^ It also means he's one lucky bloke
13:08<_ln>sure
13:09<Doorslammer>If he plays his cards right, he's in there
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13:10<_ln>And if not, he can still play OTTD.
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13:23<planetmaker>Is there a preferred way to write a file in OpenTTD? I'm looking for a way to write properly a crash.log
13:23<planetmaker>The win32 implementation uses some windows specific stuff in order to do that.
13:23<planetmaker>But I guess a simple fprintf to a file will also do under windows...
13:23<planetmaker>any thoughts on that?
13:24-!-Tefad [~tefad@c-98-249-11-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
13:24<planetmaker>I tried to locate the actual fileio for the settings file... but not sure I've located it properly...
13:24<planetmaker>at least I didn't find it in the savload files nor in the settings*
13:25<planetmaker>(or I simply missed it - quite likely :-P)
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13:30<TrueBrain>Rubidium / Yexo / planetmaker: so I have 3 don't cares and 1 person who thinks it is a good idea .. doesn't help :p
13:30<TrueBrain>so I guess we leave it unchanged for now :)
13:30<planetmaker>:-)
13:31<planetmaker>quite fair enough
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13:35<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: probably the better solution would be actually reading the scenario and determine the used NewGRFs from that; lots safer than someone manually selecting NewGRFs (especially when there are lots of versions of NewGRFs)
13:35<@Rubidium>or older versions which are (not?) shown
13:35<Ammler>and maybe warn the uploader about missing grfs.
13:36<Ammler>TrueBrain: orudge might help you there ;-)
13:36<@Rubidium>that's not something the uploader can fix :(
13:37<Ammler>but he could then think about, if he removes that grf or upload it anyway.
13:37<@Rubidium>although, one might keep a list of newgrfs around so if a missing NewGRF is added later it's automatically made a dependency of the already uploaded scenarios that use it
13:38<@Rubidium>although the same might be useful for AIs (automagically selecting the right libraries)
13:38<Yexo>for AIs it's (next to) impossible
13:39<Yexo>it's doable to make some guesses, but a complete list is actually impossible
13:39<Yexo>Ais can include libraries at runtime
13:40<Yexo>they can probably even catch the error of "Library not available" and try another version
13:40<@Rubidium>Yexo: you mean there will be (sane) AIs that at run time construct the name+version of the AI library they want to use?
13:41<Yexo>no sane Ais :)
13:43<planetmaker>next stage of AdmiralAI: test available PF lib version: 3=rudimentary, 4=ok, 5=good path finding :-)
13:43<Yexo>lol :)
13:44<Yexo>(I've included a custom version of both the road and the rail pathfinder in admiralai, so no library is loaded for that at all)
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17351 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 24 changes by yuanmin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 118 changes by SmatZ
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by Yexo
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:47<planetmaker>hehe :-) then those issues don't occur, I guess
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13:54<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I wonder if the ingame client can handle if you give a dep on a non-published (so older) grf
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm afraid i'm slowly losing my mind
13:55-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@78.51.50.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:55<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: join the club
13:55<TrueBrain>any reason you feel sharing?
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>in one moment, i have an object in my hands, and the next moment, it is nowhere to find
13:55-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9C97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
13:55<TrueBrain>hmm ... quantum mechanics at work, I say
13:55<@Belugas>welcome to the twilight zone
13:55<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: the in game client handles non-latest deps fine
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>then i have object A and look for object B, and when i have found object B, object A is gone
13:56<TrueBrain>Rubidium: k
13:56<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: that's what video surveillance at home is for.
13:56<@Rubidium>just start openttd, go to the content thingy and see the multiple aviation newgrfs
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>but it can't possibly have left my desk.
13:56<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: "kabourtjes" .. sorry, fail to translate
13:56-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:56<TrueBrain>haha
13:56<TrueBrain>kaboutertjes
13:56<TrueBrain>I can't even write
13:56*TrueBrain goes to bed
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i know what you mean
13:57<TrueBrain>I thought you would :)
13:57<Dreamxtreme>hehehe
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13:58<Dreamxtreme>right all done
13:58<Dreamxtreme>any other last min places to add to 0.5 beta England & Wales
13:59<_ln>do you have that... welsh village that has a ridiculously long name
14:00<Dreamxtreme>not sure it will fit
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: i once thought about adding beepers or gps senders to the objects i frequently misplace, but there are too many of these
14:03-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm110.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: faget]
14:04<Prof_Frink>Dreamxtreme: Just go with "Llanfair PG"
14:05<Prof_Frink>Dreamxtreme: Wimborne Minster
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>i thought the welsh town name set had it
14:07<Prof_Frink>If not... file a bug. FS#324235: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch has a silly name.
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>it will be closed with "this name only ever occures by copy-pasting, it has be decided copy-paste is an unwanted feature"
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm... anybody got a third hand for me?
14:11<FauxFaux>o/
14:12<Dreamxtreme>wimborne Minster FTW!
14:13<Dreamxtreme>how come copy and paste dont work
14:13<Dreamxtreme>hmm i'll try adding it now
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14:14<Prof_Frink>Dreamxtreme: Built it quickly, I'm heading there in a couple of minutes.
14:15<Dreamxtreme>LOL
14:15<Dreamxtreme>ok
14:15-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:15<Dreamxtreme>hmm
14:15-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:15<Dreamxtreme>i cant find Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch on google maps
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14:17<Dreamxtreme>nope
14:17<Dreamxtreme>bug
14:17<Dreamxtreme>BUG BUG!!!
14:18<Dreamxtreme>only fits Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgo
14:21<Dreamxtreme>right added Wimborne
14:22<_ln>here's a map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpwllgwyngyll
14:22<_ln>since it appears to have a short form, probably best use that until BUG BUG is fixed
14:23<Dreamxtreme>lol
14:23<Dreamxtreme>true
14:23<Dreamxtreme>but to be fair
14:23<Dreamxtreme>it really doesnt matter
14:23<Dreamxtreme>since it really has no population
14:23<TrueBrain>Dreamxtreme: this is a bug .. how? :)
14:23<TrueBrain>a limitation rareyl is a bug :)
14:24<TrueBrain>the fact your car can't drive 1000 km/h is not a bug, I say :)
14:24<_ln>Dreamxtreme: and it won't have population if you don't give them a chance
14:24<Dreamxtreme>it is a limit
14:24<Dreamxtreme>its a character limit bug
14:24<_ln>TrueBrain: it is what Scott Meyers calls The Keyhole Problem.
14:28<TrueBrain>Dreamxtreme: how is it a bug? :p
14:28<TrueBrain>a bug assumes an unwanted feature ;)
14:28<TrueBrain>so, as we all say it: it is not a bug, it is a feature!
14:28-!-Lovheim [~Lovheim@153.84-49-246.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
14:28<Lovheim>Hello
14:28<Dreamxtreme>lol
14:28<Lovheim>May I drop a fast question?
14:28<Dreamxtreme>epic fail
14:28<TrueBrain>hello Lovheim
14:29<TrueBrain>no, only slow ones
14:29<Yexo>hello Lovheim
14:29<TrueBrain>we hate fast questions
14:29<TrueBrain>:)
14:29<Lovheim>Hahhah ok, ill drop a slow one
14:29<TrueBrain>Lovheim: never ask to ask a question, just ask the question
14:29<_ln>yeah 250 km/h max.
14:29<Dreamxtreme>that sounds wrong
14:29<Lovheim>Im fairly old player of OpenTDD, but i've recently tried to experiment with all these addons and changed and such
14:30<Lovheim>Then I installed 072 yesterday, which is the current version of OTDD, then I wonder how to unstinstall AI's
14:30<Lovheim>I managed to install an AI which does not work.
14:30<TrueBrain>the game is OpenTTD / OTTD ;) Just for the record :)
14:30<TrueBrain>which OS?
14:30<Yexo>the Ais are downloaded to My Documents/OpenTTD/content_download/ai/
14:30<Lovheim>win32
14:30<Yexo>just remove the relevant tar from there
14:30<TrueBrain>then what Yexo says ;)
14:30<Lovheim>AH! I see
14:30<Lovheim>Because I found the .tar files
14:30<Yexo>and don't forget to restart the game after that
14:31<Lovheim>Ok nice! So the .tar files are the actual files
14:31<frosch123>but isn't just selecting different ones in the main menu enough?
14:31<Lovheim>Thought it worked like a %temp%
14:31<Yexo>the tar files are archives with all the AI codein it
14:31<Yexo>you can extract them and change the Ais ifyou want
14:31<Lovheim>Yeah, but I want to use the "random" system
14:31<Yexo>frosch123: yes, but not with random AIs
14:32<Lovheim>I like to get suprised if a noob company starts or a pro one
14:32<Lovheim>Hehe
14:32<Lovheim>Thanks alot guys :)
14:33<TrueBrain>you are very welcome :)
14:33<Dreamxtreme>right then
14:33<TrueBrain>I wish all users were like this .. clear question, polite form of communication ..
14:33<Dreamxtreme>fix the bug then LOL
14:33<TrueBrain>Dreamxtreme: it is not a bug!!! it is a feature!!! Sigh ... :p
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14:34<Dreamxtreme>a feature that limits characters
14:34<Dreamxtreme>really!
14:34<@Rubidium>ploink
14:34<TrueBrain>yes
14:34<Dreamxtreme>epic fail
14:34<TrueBrain>if you consider that epic fail, I tihnk you should stop using any OS :)
14:34<TrueBrain>or a computer
14:34<Dreamxtreme>it couldnt even do half of it
14:34<TrueBrain>as they are full of those 'epic fails'
14:35<Dreamxtreme>i know that
14:35<Dreamxtreme>i use windows
14:35<Dreamxtreme>anyway
14:35<Dreamxtreme>KFC back in 10
14:35<TrueBrain>well, you see, if we increase the characeter limit, all tables have to be moved to the right with one, creating a binary of twice the size. We don't want that, so we kept it with this limit.
14:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17352 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3162]: trains wouldn't show smoke if the load/unload counter wasn't 0, though there doesn't seem to be a reason to check that variable anyhow anymore
14:36<Lovheim>Oh, if I may interrupt yet again. Anyone have any good recommendation for an AI?
14:36<Lovheim>For the 0.7.2 that is.
14:36<Yexo>that really depends on what kind of AI you want
14:36<frosch123>what kind of ai, a hard competitive one, or other goals?
14:36<Yexo>do you want one that has the most profit, one that uses some transport mode?
14:37<frosch123>or one that just build some stuff to make the map look busy
14:37<Lovheim>Hm, a hard competitive one. I usually use Airplanes. So im getting so fast cash. I need an AI that focus on trains and ect but builds fast and is earning like Jessica alba would do as a hooker :D
14:37<Yexo>in that case try NoCab
14:37<Yexo>it doesn't use trains, but it makes a lot of money uses planes/trucks/busses
14:37<Yexo>oh, and ships
14:38<TrueBrain>hmmm ... Jessica Alba ... hmm ..
14:38<Lovheim>Oh oki, I have it. I'll be sure to add it!
14:38<Lovheim>Thanks! =)
14:38<Lovheim>Btw. Have you guys tried the infrastrucute sharing thing?
14:38<Yexo>there are some topics in the forum with comparisons, like this one: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=44523
14:39<Lovheim>Thanks
14:39<Yexo>I tried it some time ago, but not recently
14:39<planetmaker>Lovheim: don't be shy of AdmiralAI either
14:39<planetmaker>Lovheim: yes, I did...
14:39<Lovheim>Haha oki, ill get AdminalAI too.
14:39<Lovheim>Is it good planetmaker?
14:39<Lovheim>Is it worth it, or should I be waiting?
14:40<planetmaker>You shouldn't ask me, if you want a neutral answer
14:40<Lovheim>Haha, I want your opinion.
14:40<planetmaker>In my opinion it's quite decent
14:40<Lovheim>Not bugging and working properly?
14:40<Yexo>in money-making it can't beat NoCab, but it does support trains (but no ships)
14:40<Yexo>but then my oppinion is even more biased than planetmakers ;)
14:40<planetmaker>Lovheim: go and test it and report bugs.
14:40<planetmaker>It certainly needs play-testing
14:41<Lovheim>I wanted to try it, but didn't understand how to install it. haha
14:41<planetmaker>hehe @ Yexo
14:41<Lovheim>Sometimes I feel like a noob on waterskies ^^
14:41<@Rubidium>gheheh... don't ever expect a neutral answer
14:41<@Rubidium>although, maybe "try it yourself" is a neutral answer, but not a real answer to your question
14:41<planetmaker>Lovheim: just download the binaries into a new dir and start it
14:41<Lovheim>Oh, no special name for the dir?
14:41<Yexo>no
14:42<planetmaker> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/is2/bundles/IS2.0-beta3/
14:42<Lovheim>Oh, thats amazing. I really have to say OpenTTD team has really made a good job programming.
14:42<planetmaker>Lovheim: no need to overwrite anything
14:42<planetmaker>I have like.... 20 different OpenTTDs here
14:43<Lovheim>Hehe, which is your fav? The original?
14:43<planetmaker>Mind that you don't complain about the IS binaries to the devs.
14:43<planetmaker>Complain to me or Hirundo
14:43<Lovheim>Haha, I never complain on stuff that's free =)
14:43<planetmaker>Bug reports then, if you prefer that way :-)
14:44<planetmaker>which would actually be very welcome
14:44<@Belugas>if everyone was as wise as you...
14:44<Lovheim>Hah
14:44<Lovheim>But im really hoping that there will be a newGFX for "booths" - which will give me money everytime a competitor go trought it with a vehicle.
14:44<planetmaker>but mostly I play plain OpenTTD
14:45<planetmaker>I cannot be arsed to deal with incompatible savegames.
14:45<Lovheim>I am so damn annoyed that they fill up my nicely built roads with 200x cars. Hahaha - and I get nothing for it.
14:45<planetmaker>hahah :-)
14:45<planetmaker>then you shouldn't try nocab :-P
14:45<planetmaker>they'll use 10 times as many cars
14:45<@Rubidium>planetmaker: only 20? :)
14:45<planetmaker>Rubidium: I didn't count
14:45<planetmaker>just guestimate
14:46<planetmaker>but I don't keep a repo for every patch.
14:46<Lovheim>Hah, but thats the thing. I love it when there is alot of cars and well built roads which makes the city look alive.
14:46*Rubidium easily reaches that if he doesn't count the checkouts for binaries that I can't run (like OSX)
14:46<planetmaker>Just a diff and save that
14:46<@Rubidium>or the checkouts in VMs (like for MSVC)
14:47<Lovheim>Where may I post suggestions, i'll post a "Checkpoint structure" that may be built on your own road. So when competitors go trought, they pay me like a minimal charge of what they are carrying.
14:47<planetmaker>just like.... is2, newgrfgui, stationgui, clientpatches, regions, airports, h2h, 5+ testing things, wwottdgd,...
14:47<Yexo>Lovheim: on the forums, but don't expect anything to happen with that suggestion
14:48<Lovheim>Ahh thats too sad. But I'll give it a try later on, might be someone out there that feel the same way. haha
14:48<planetmaker>fontselection, 0.7.x, heightlevel, devserver's one, public server's one,
14:48<@Belugas>Lovheim, thing is, money is not a real problem after a while. so i'm not ure it would really motivate anyone
14:49<planetmaker>hm... gamecreation=river generation
14:49<@Belugas>plus, one might argue that there is no REAL waypoints for trucks
14:49<Lovheim>I understand
14:49<@Belugas>therefor, you cannot NORMALLY force your trucks away from the pay zone
14:50<Lovheim>Would be cool tho, then you could make pay zone for a big price and therefor force your competitors to not use the road if NOT necesarry
14:50<Lovheim>And in that way my cool road-network would be mainly expensive to use.
14:50<planetmaker>Lovheim: that won't even work for IS2 patch
14:51<Lovheim>I understand, im just playing with the thought. hehe :)
14:51<@Belugas>what if a competitor connects to your road in mid-point? and exit before your toll point?
14:51<planetmaker>:-)
14:51<planetmaker>I would do exactly that :-P
14:51<@Belugas>hehehe
14:51<Lovheim>Nono
14:51<planetmaker>a road around it
14:51*Belugas hugs planetmaker
14:52<Lovheim>Im thinking about just 1sqm structure
14:52<planetmaker>exactly
14:52<Lovheim>that everytime someone go trought they will pay
14:52<planetmaker>and I would build a road around your road block
14:52<planetmaker>so there's a free path and a path with a toll booth.
14:52<Lovheim>AH
14:52<Lovheim>I see
14:52<Lovheim>I never thought of that
14:52<Lovheim>Haha
14:52<_ln>Lovheim: btw, http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/
14:52<planetmaker>given a path finder certainly will put a penalty on a toll booth, cars will take the clear route
14:53<Lovheim>Yeah, I didnt think so far.
14:54<Lovheim>What's that site _1n?
14:54-!-Farden [jk3farden@lns-bzn-48f-81-56-247-196.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
14:54<planetmaker>hehe. A hint that you drop too many "'"
14:54<@Belugas>a subtle notice that maybe you made some errors on your english
14:54<@Belugas>ln is a freak sometimes
14:54<Lovheim>Oh, im sorry if he was unable to understand my English ^^
14:55<Lovheim>Im Norwegian, dont speak this much English
14:55<planetmaker>:-) The hint mainly aimed at "Im" --> "I'm"
14:56<Lovheim>echo 'Ok, i\'ll speak like this the rest of my life. Then he will have enought of them';
14:56<planetmaker>don't be put off. You don't talk leet-speak. That's ugly and not readable - especially by not by non-native speakers
14:56<Lovheim>Hah =D
14:57<Lovheim>Oki, well I have to run along. Thanks for replying guys! Been a pleasure speaking with you!
14:57<blathijs> especially by not by non-native speakers <-- You mean people who don't have leet-speak as their primary language?
14:57<@Rubidium>is he flaming people again for not writing perfect English when he himself doesn't write perfect English either?
14:58<_ln>who?
15:00-!-oskari89 [oskari89@212-149-207-211.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm A½ - Aja 35]
15:00<Lovheim>Ok, well I am going brb. Thanks everyone yet again. I will try your AI Yexo :D
15:01<_ln>clearly he cannot be talking about me, as 1) giving one url is hardly 'flaming'.
15:02-!-Farden_ [jk3farden@lns-bzn-48f-81-56-247-196.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:02*Yexo wonders how long till _ln notices
15:03-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-28-7-22.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
15:03<planetmaker>enjoy the game, Lovheim :-)
15:04<@Rubidium>Yexo: probably till he ain't on the list anymore
15:04<planetmaker>wasn't really bad this time, Rubidium :-)
15:05<planetmaker>that link was appropriate.
15:05<planetmaker>though one could have done without the hint, too. :-x
15:08-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17353 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make sure the shuffle and programme buttons in the music window are always the same size
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: does that kind of thing actually ever happen?
15:20-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-28-7-22.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17354 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the subsidy gui nested
15:30<PeterT>rubidium, what do you mean 'nested'
15:32<Xaroth>Take a look at the changes?
15:32<Xaroth>should be pretty easy to spot, no?
15:32<PeterT>hold on. let me update
15:33<Alberth>PeterT: if you trust me enough: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42222
15:33<PeterT>tt forums is ok
15:33<Alberth>yeah, but the PDF file? ;)
15:35<PeterT>why?
15:35<PeterT>are pdf files dangerous?
15:36<Yexo>are exe files dangerous?
15:37<PeterT>depends
15:37<PeterT>if you download them from openttd.org, no
15:37<Xaroth>hah
15:37<@Rubidium>Yexo: ofcourse not (if you don't execute them at least)
15:37<Xaroth>Rubidium: and are not on windows :P
15:38<PeterT>unless rubidium and yexo are out to get us (and smatz, and tb)
15:38<Yexo>Rubidium: I was trying to make PeterT think about his own question
15:38<PeterT>yexo, you mis-understood me
15:38<planetmaker>PeterT: it's a save bet, they are :-P
15:39<Yexo>PeterT: I certainly did not
15:39<PeterT>alberth asked me if i trusted him on the pdf file
15:39<PeterT>ok, im sorry what i should was: "why? am i supposed to be cautious about pdf files?"
15:39<PeterT>*should've said
15:40<Ammler>openttd.exe is a virus!
15:40<Xaroth>because pdf files can contain virus.
15:40<PeterT>really?
15:40<PeterT>wow
15:40<Ammler>at least, it affected me :-)
15:40<planetmaker>as do xls, doc, ppt files
15:41<PeterT>ha! doc files
15:41<planetmaker>and pif and exe and ... scr ... many, many
15:41<planetmaker>no shit.
15:41<PeterT>cpp?
15:41<Alberth>PeterT: if you use syntax highlighting, you execute code based on the contents of untrusted source :p
15:41<Xaroth>all office document formats have the capability to contain objects
15:41<PeterT>im off for school work
15:42<PeterT>bye all
15:42<Xaroth>those objects can contain virus, so as such, the doc does
15:42-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
15:42<Akoz>bb
15:42<Xaroth>finally.
15:42<Ammler>this blog comment spambot is quite stupid.
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>when were bots ever not stupid?
15:43<Ammler>ups, wrong channel :-)
15:43<Ammler>well, it alwys does comment the same post.
15:44<KenjiE20>Eddi; when we welcome our robotic overlords
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>conclusion: Ammler is stupid => Ammler is a bot.
15:44<Ammler>don't need to be a bot.
15:44<Alberth>ah, you want this 79KB package? ok, let me in stall this 70MB for you :p
15:44<Alberth>*install
15:46<Dreamxtreme>and i told her the last time i dont have herpes
15:47<Dreamxtreme>oops
15:47<Dreamxtreme>wrong chan
15:47<Dreamxtreme>lol
15:47-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:47<Dreamxtreme>epic fail
15:47<Dreamxtreme>much like that bug
15:47<planetmaker>indeed :-P
15:48<Dreamxtreme>LOL
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>which petition do i have to sign to get a useful ignore feature in the forums?
15:54<Dreamxtreme>lol
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>any person with >50% lines consisting of "lol" is on the best path to get there, too.
15:55-!-williham [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd
15:56<@Belugas>oh... i can kick, but i can't give you the power to...
15:56<@Belugas>can't won't
15:57<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: forum or IRC?
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>well, the ignore feature on IRC is sufficient
15:59*fjb has a build in ignore feature.
15:59<TrueBrain>Reddog really really doesn't get it .. he will receive his 3 warnings by the end of the week ...
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: sadly, i don't.
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.qdb.us/299533 (related to the topic)
16:01-!-[wito] [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:01<TrueBrain>lol :) That is funny Eddi|zuHause ;)
16:02<TrueBrain>the latest xbcd is VERY cool :)
16:02<Dreamxtreme>not like XBMC
16:02<Dreamxtreme>o ok
16:03<Dreamxtreme>lol
16:04<Dreamxtreme>right
16:04<Dreamxtreme>no more lols from me
16:04<Dreamxtreme>heh
16:05<TrueBrain>I wrote that down.
16:05<Dreamxtreme>ok
16:06-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9C97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
16:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17355 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Codechange: determine the minimum size of the subsidy gui based on (some) of the content
16:07<Dreamxtreme>now thats a fail
16:07<Dreamxtreme>although might not be of the epic kind
16:07<@Belugas>well... unless you're completely stoned or drunk, or if a lot of jokes would be layed dowm, you don't need to "lol" that much, it's... useless... is it?
16:08-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:08<Dreamxtreme>yes
16:08<TrueBrain>Belugas: one might think
16:08<Dreamxtreme>i now i lol too much
16:08<TrueBrain>Belugas: but people are CARZY you know
16:08-!-Dreamxtreme was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [[22:04] <Dreamxtreme> no more lols from me]
16:08-!-Dreamxtreme [~chatzilla@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:08<@Belugas>like... what sos it express? that you're laughing out loud. to what? who knows...
16:08<Dreamxtreme>know even
16:08<@Belugas>indeed TrueBrain ;)
16:08<Dreamxtreme>oi
16:08-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:08<Dreamxtreme>that was in context
16:08<Dreamxtreme>YOU (Dreamxtreme) have been booted from #openttd by DorpsGek ([22:04] <Dreamxtreme> no more lols from me)
16:08-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~chatzilla@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] by DorpsGek
16:08-!-Dreamxtreme was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [[22:04] <Dreamxtreme> no more lols from me]
16:09-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:09<TrueBrain>Belugas: now this is a situation on which I say: lol :)
16:09<@Belugas>yeah :D
16:09-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!~chatzilla@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] by DorpsGek
16:10<welshdragon> TrueBrain stop kicking innocent people
16:10<TrueBrain>welshdragon: innocent?
16:10-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051152006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*]
16:10<TrueBrain>he promised he wouldn't say that word! And he did! Twice!
16:10<welshdragon>he's from York
16:10<TrueBrain>and that makes it okay .. how?
16:10-!-Dreamxtreme [~chatzilla@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:10<Dreamxtreme>omg
16:11<@Belugas>they are all stoned over there, welshdragon?
16:11-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
16:11<welshdragon>Belugas: they lolololololololololololol a lot
16:11<Dreamxtreme>i cant lo'l' anymore
16:12<PeterT>they must be happy people
16:12<Dreamxtreme>clearly
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>i have a suggestion: if you feel the urge to lol, rofl instead
16:13<Dreamxtreme>true
16:13<PeterT>does any op here actually have an IRC with a kick/ban/unban GUI?
16:13*welshdragon rofl's all over Eddi|zuHause
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>if you feel that is an overreaction, put a smilie
16:13<PeterT>welshdragon: hehe
16:13<@Belugas>#EVERYBODY MUST GET STONED
16:13<@Belugas>he.. not me who said that... Bob Dylan!
16:13<welshdragon>srsly: LERN2LIGHTENUP :P
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: a) rephrase that to "an IRC with a [...] GUI", b) why does that matter?
16:14<Dreamxtreme>ok
16:14<Dreamxtreme>who stole the remote
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>i did
16:14<Dreamxtreme>:P
16:14<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause, because it matters.
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>i just misplaced it again
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>like i do with remotes all the time
16:15<TrueBrain>Kindergarten
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>including my mouse and my keyboard
16:15<Dreamxtreme>:O
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>and anything else in my room that does not have a wire
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>and wires
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>and occasionally wires which are connected to something
16:16<Dreamxtreme>ok
16:16-!-Kaas [~Stefan@88.159.121.35] has joined #openttd
16:16<Dreamxtreme>give it back then
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>no. i never give away anything that is mine.
16:16<Dreamxtreme>seriously i cant find it
16:17<Dreamxtreme>but its mine though
16:17<Dreamxtreme>:'(
16:17<Kaas>hey guys. i've got a question.. Im in a TTD game thats in year 1992, but i still dont have electric trains. planes and cars do develop though
16:17-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aeiz221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
16:17<Yexo>Kaas: did you build an electric depot?
16:17<Yexo>also, what climate are you playing?
16:17<@Belugas>which climate?
16:17<PeterT>are you in artic?
16:17<PeterT>or tropical?
16:18<Kaas>there is also a button that says: disable electic trains, but thats also unchecken
16:18<PeterT>climate please
16:18<Kaas>Desert
16:18<@Belugas>there you go
16:18<Yexo>there are no electric trains in desert
16:18<Kaas>newest train is tina turbo
16:18<@Belugas>not available
16:18<Kaas>really?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes.
16:18<Kaas>are there mono rails?
16:18<Dreamxtreme>wow
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>i suggest you try a newgrf
16:18<Dreamxtreme>shows you i never go on there
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes, there are monorails and maglevs [iirc]
16:19<Kaas>at what year will i get these? :)
16:19-!-andythenorth [~andy@host81-152-147-6.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:19<@Belugas>can't remember
16:20<@Belugas>the wiki knows
16:20<@Belugas>at least for regular games
16:20<PeterT>2001 for monos
16:20<@Belugas>bummer... another chick feeder :(
16:20<PeterT>202x for maglevz
16:21<Kaas>ah ok, thanks man :)
16:21<Kaas>160 km/u just isnt fast enough :D
16:21-!-frosch123 [~frosch@89.15.214.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:21<Dreamxtreme>ok
16:21<Dreamxtreme>England & Wales 0.5 ready
16:22<PeterT>Kaas, im checking the wiki actually
16:22<PeterT>:)
16:22<Kaas>dont worry
16:22-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:22<PeterT>oh sorry, 1999 for first mono
16:22<Kaas>woot
16:22<Kaas>even better :D
16:23<Kaas>its 1993 already
16:23<TrueBrain>hmm ... kaas ... /me hits the fridge
16:23<PeterT>2020 for maglevz
16:23<PeterT>(with a z!)
16:23<@Belugas>you have a sister? Called Patricia? Are you Patricia?
16:23<TrueBrain>Belugas: are you mental?
16:23<@Belugas>I want a digital autograph
16:24<TrueBrain>(just checking ;))
16:24<@Belugas>TrueBrain, mental-ly touched :)
16:24<Kaas>anyway, going to play again. thanks for the infoz
16:24<TrueBrain>Kaas: enjoy
16:24<@Belugas>and pay us a visit with her!
16:25<TrueBrain>what are you babbling about? :)
16:25<Dreamxtreme>cake
16:25<TrueBrain>http://images01.olx.com/ui/1/80/73/1437773_1.jpg <- there, a digital autograph for you :)
16:25<TrueBrain>3rd page for nudity on the terms: digital autograph .. you got to love google
16:25<@Belugas>Patricia Kaas, a french signer :D
16:25<TrueBrain>ah :)
16:25<SmatZ>mmm nudity
16:26<SmatZ>whose sign is that ?
16:26<TrueBrain>SmatZ: go call your girlfriend
16:26<SmatZ>:(
16:26<Farden>as a french, I cannot really call her a singer
16:26<Kaas>hmm
16:26<Kaas>im dutch, not french
16:26<Farden>more a howler
16:26<TrueBrain>http://www.milkmag.org/images/miscarriage_03.jpg <- NOT BOSS SAFE! 3rd page hit in google on 'digital autograph' .. wtf?!
16:26<Farden>or, something like that
16:26<@Belugas>ok.. as a canadian once belgian, i do, Farden
16:27<PeterT>truebrain: in english its "NSFW"
16:27<PeterT>Not Safe For Work
16:27<SmatZ>hmm what is "svetar"
16:27<@Belugas>i like her, in fact. not everything she does, but a few songs here and there always touch me
16:27-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Quit: Quit]
16:27<TrueBrain>PeterT: do us all a favor, and don't get smart on me
16:27<Farden>well, it's a question of taste, I think
16:28<PeterT>where are you from?
16:28<Farden>perhaps I'm to young to understand
16:28<PeterT>you dont have a country listed on your name
16:29<SmatZ>TrueBrain: bad mood? :(
16:29<TrueBrain>Farden: Belugas is very old, so :)
16:29<TrueBrain>SmatZ: no, absolutely not :)
16:29<PeterT>belugas isnt old
16:30<@Belugas>nope... he's ancient
16:30<TrueBrain>I second that :)
16:30-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd
16:30<PeterT>no, not really
16:30<PeterT>hes the wise one
16:31<@Belugas>buwhahahahaha!!!!
16:31<@Belugas>now it's the proper time:
16:31<@Belugas>LOL!
16:31<PeterT>i gotta go again
16:31<@Belugas>pee?
16:31<PeterT>football calls
16:31<PeterT>;)
16:32<PeterT>Belugas: confusing "go" with "go take a piss" ?
16:32<PeterT>goodbye all
16:32-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
16:32-!-OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-0-0-cust18.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
16:32<@Belugas>dunno abouty you but in here, if one said just "gotta go", it usually means that
16:32*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
16:33<@Belugas>not always... but still
16:33<@Belugas>puurrrr
16:33<@Belugas>puuurrrrrr
16:33<TrueBrain>I love it when Belugas makes that sound :)
16:33<@Belugas>you should hear my cat...
16:33<TrueBrain>our cat only tries to hurt you ..
16:33<TrueBrain>stupid cat
16:34<@Belugas>my cat now weights 12 pounds 4 onces. monster of love!
16:34<TrueBrain>pounds ...
16:34<TrueBrain>I hate those canadian people
16:34<TrueBrain>what is wrong with grams?
16:34<TrueBrain>SI UNITS PEOPLE! :'(
16:35<TrueBrain>hihi :)
16:35<@Rubidium>all cats hurt me, in some way or another
16:35*OwenS doesn't know what his cats weigh, and if he did, he would know in sane units :p
16:35<TrueBrain>12 pounds 4 ounces = 5 556.50653 grams <- google can be useful :)
16:35<OwenS>TrueBrain: Grams isn't an SI base unit :p
16:35<TrueBrain>kg is
16:35<TrueBrain>therefor g is
16:36<OwenS>And grams seems like an odd unit to use for an animal's weight
16:36<SmatZ>it's not base unit, only kg is
16:36<TrueBrain>base unit, yes :)
16:36<@Rubidium>less odd than light years for distance
16:36<SmatZ>hehe
16:36<@Belugas>well... that's how the vet told me she weighted ( the cat... not the vet...) so i just.. grabbed the number
16:36<TrueBrain>depends on what you are pointing at Rubidium :)
16:37<TrueBrain>Belugas: hahaha :) Not the vet? You sure? :p
16:37<TrueBrain>:p :p :p
16:37<TrueBrain>Rubidium: in fact, we use kpc for distance
16:37<OwenS>parsecs?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: nobody was asking for "SI base units", just "SI units"
16:37-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:37<TrueBrain>yup
16:37<@Belugas>far from that... she told me i should check my cat's diet but ... let say the doctor was not following her own advices :D
16:37-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
16:37<TrueBrain>ghehehehe :)
16:37<TrueBrain>clear :)
16:38<TrueBrain>what I never understood about kg in SI, 'kg' is the base, but it isn't dkg, or mkg ...
16:38<OwenS>It's an oddity dating back to the crazy french Metric comittee...
16:38<Farden>it's not crazy
16:38<TrueBrain>I hate french people
16:38<TrueBrain>(sorry glx :p)
16:38<Farden>it's logic!
16:39<OwenS>Simply they couldn't make an accurate gram :P
16:39<Farden>TrueBrain : then I hate you
16:39<Farden>(glx isn't the only french here)
16:39<TrueBrain>Farden: might be, but glx is the only one I would make the exception for :)
16:39<TrueBrain>hihi :)
16:39<Farden>you bastard...^^
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: but they could have called this big block of metal a "gram" instead of a "kilogram"
16:39<+glx>thx TrueBrain :)
16:39<TrueBrain>Farden: BOFH present
16:39<Farden>toi, tu paie rien pour attendre!
16:39<Farden>oh
16:39<Farden>BOFH <!
16:39<@Belugas>ho ben... j'l'aurais jamais devine, Farden :)
16:39<Farden><3
16:40<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: The gram was decided in some way or other already...
16:40<OwenS>As I said, crazy feench
16:40<Farden>excuse me
16:40*Farden slaps OwenS around with Windows Me
16:40<Farden>but it was necessary
16:40<SmatZ>ow
16:40<TrueBrain>if you google for 'logic' apple is the first hit
16:40<TrueBrain>that is not .. logic
16:41<Dreamxtreme>anyone fancy a England and wales OTTD MP game
16:41<Dreamxtreme>??
16:41<SmatZ>a England?
16:41<OwenS>Farden: That Windows ME evaporated upon coming into contact with my OpenSolaris box :p
16:41<Farden>opensolaris? good boy
16:41*SmatZ slaps himself with _ln
16:41<Farden>but I prefer freeBSD
16:42-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
16:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17356 /trunk/src/ (subsidy.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp): -Fix: actually implement scrolling for the subsidy list instead of 'just' showing a scroll bar.
16:42<Dreamxtreme>uk
16:42<Dreamxtreme>yuk
16:42<TrueBrain>yes, uk is yuk, you got that right :)
16:42<Dreamxtreme>it timed out uploading my map
16:42<TrueBrain>oh, am I not the niceone here today :)
16:42<Dreamxtreme>tut
16:42<OwenS>Linux, OpenSolaris, (Last booted ~4 months ago) Windows XP, I have a Unix-clone, Unix and Not-ix here... Just need to add OS X as a "Freak-ix" :p
16:43<TrueBrain>a 4 month long running Windows XP
16:43<TrueBrain>that can never be a good thing
16:43<@Rubidium>Farden: so it's almost time to use Debian :)
16:43<_ln>hi SmatZ
16:43<Lovheim>Hello again, anyone experienced the bug when trying to add newGFX that the game crashes and say "<filename>.gfx lost in cache"?
16:43<OwenS>TrueBrain: Unbooted for 4 months :P
16:43<Farden>debian?
16:43<SmatZ>hello _ln
16:43<Farden>don't talk me about that shit^^
16:43<TrueBrain>I want to bet that next time you move your mouse, it asks you to reboot before changes take affect
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: by far not your best day yet ;)
16:43<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: what would it make my best day? :)
16:43<@Rubidium>Farden: but... Debian runs with the freebsd kernel
16:43<OwenS>TrueBrain: Next time I boot it I expect it to ask me to download 1GB of updates or such
16:44<TrueBrain>OwenS: download them before you boot :p
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>i should rather not say anything now :p
16:44<SmatZ>I had windows running for over a year... on a notebook, suspended on disk :-p
16:44<Farden>yeah, they "stole" freeBSD kernel parts
16:44<Farden>like apple has done
16:44<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: so you picked up on that ? :) Damn, I now really feel like Simon :)
16:44<Farden>but, a kernel doesn't make an OS
16:44<Farden>all ports
16:44<TrueBrain>SmatZ: CHEATER! :)
16:44<SmatZ>;)
16:44<Farden>all binaries
16:44<OwenS>Farden: FreeBSD's ZFS implementation is absolutely crappy
16:44<Farden>they form the great freeBSD
16:45<Farden>ZFS?
16:45<TrueBrain>then .. when is the last time you tried compiling OpenTTD on FreeBSD?
16:45<OwenS>I mean, ffs, panics are a regular occurance...
16:45<SmatZ>I was surprised when I powered it on (it's old old pentium) and it resumed from hibernation :)
16:45<Farden>I don't know
16:45<Farden>never used it
16:45<Ammler>fjb: is using openttd there...
16:45<TrueBrain>SmatZ: would have been funny :)
16:45<OwenS>Well I have a 2TB ZFS pool so Solaris is my only practical option :p
16:45<Farden>my school uses AFS
16:46<Dreamxtreme>Description field exceeded 500 characters. EPIC FAIL
16:46<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: it compiles fine on Debian's FreeBSD
16:46<Farden>but... I don't think they know how to use it
16:46<@Rubidium>at least 0.7.2 does
16:46<OwenS>Farden: AFS? AtheOS File System?
16:46<Farden>cause it's always crashing
16:46<Farden>no
16:46<Farden>Andrew File System
16:46<Lovheim>Anyone had the error where it says the GFX is lost in cache?
16:46<TrueBrain>page 35 on search term 'logic' gives me nudity .. silly Google :p
16:47<OwenS>Basically, one has to do about 20 pages of settings changes to get ZFS working "reliably" on FreeBSD. No thanks. Solaris is easier
16:47<Farden>nudity can be full of logic^^
16:47<Farden>OwenS : if you see it that way, yeah of course
16:47<OwenS>And no other FS provides the functionality
16:47<TrueBrain>using ZFS to dismiss a whole OS .. that is a new :)
16:48<Farden>but, they're working on it
16:48<Farden>perhaps one day
16:48<Farden>ZFS and freebsd will be friends again \o
16:48<OwenS>Also, FreeBSD is still stupidly clinging to BSD make :p
16:48<Farden>well, I prefer BSD make
16:48<Farden>it's less verbose in standart mode
16:48<TrueBrain>Dreamxtreme: can I .. suggest you tune down your 'epic fail' .. it starts to become, well .. annoying. We spent all this time on creating something amazing, and all you can say is: epic fail here, epic fail there. Besides the fact you clearly 100% misunderstood the term 'epic fail', it is also very much not nice to throw around that often.
16:49<Farden>when you're using recursive makefiles
16:49<Farden>I had a project to do, which had to compile with both gmake and pmake
16:49<Farden>and, with gmake the log was about 40 lines
16:49<Farden>and pmake it was only 10
16:49<Dreamxtreme>lol i was referring to the epic fail on my part TrueBrain
16:49<TrueBrain>so gmake is clearly better :)
16:50<TrueBrain>oh oh oh oh, a lol :) So I can kick you now?
16:50<Farden>it's much easier to get errors when you don't have all those "entering directory ... leaving directory" messages
16:50<Dreamxtreme>dammt
16:50<OwenS>recursive makefiles are silly anyway. They don't play along with the -j option...
16:50<Farden>TrueBrain : more message are good, but only if there are usefull
16:50<Dreamxtreme>right
16:50*TrueBrain hugs Dreamxtreme
16:50<OwenS>Farden: I find the directorry messages useful :p
16:50<Farden>why?
16:50<Dreamxtreme>:D
16:51<OwenS>Because if your insisting on recursive makefiles, I want to be able to find the failed file...
16:51<OwenS>Rather than just file.c(24) and not knowing where file.c is
16:51<Farden>doesn't it tells you the complete path when it does an error?
16:51<@Rubidium>Farden: just add '-s' to your MAKEFLAGS
16:51<OwenS>Farden: no it doesn't
16:51<Farden>ok, cause it does for me
16:51-!-Zahl [~Zahl@f051152006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
16:51<Farden>but it's probably because of a hidden flag somewhere
16:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17357 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_road.cpp: -Codechange: some compilers complain about implicit conversion from NULL to bool
16:52<TrueBrain>SmatZ: you make it sound like the compilers are to blame :p
16:52<Farden>which make the directory messages useless
16:52<SmatZ>they are! :)
16:52<TrueBrain>hehehe :)
16:52<TrueBrain>type-checking? Anyone? :p
16:52-!-bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:52<OwenS>Then again I never see those messages because I don't use recursive makefiles; because they, as I said, don't paralelize properly with -jX options - they either spawn more ccs than I wanted or spawn a make process per core. Neither is smart
16:53<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: they are; newer compilers removed valid warnings
16:54<TrueBrain>hehe
16:54-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:55<Farden>OwenS : it's more a style of structure
16:55<+glx>gcc 3.4.5 complains, gcc 4.4.0 doesn't
16:55<Farden>for big C/C++ projects, using a recursive structure is very usefull
16:55<TrueBrain>gcc 4.4.0 sucks :p
16:56<Farden>when you have dozens of files to compile
16:56<OwenS>Farden: For big C/C++ projects you shouldn't be hand writing makefiles :P
16:56<TrueBrain>Farden: I can say with proud OpenTTD uses only 2 Makefiles for the whole compile-process
16:56<TrueBrain>well, 3, but one is to call the other 2 :p
16:56<TrueBrain>OwenS: owh ... euh ...
16:56<TrueBrain>DOH! I knew we did something wrong :p
16:57<OwenS>Then again maybe I'm just too much of a CMake fan :p
16:57<[com]buster>Farden: maybe you read on "recursive make considered harmful"
16:57<Farden>OwenS : I'm talking about school projects, and at the moment, we MUST write every makefile by ourselves
16:57-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:57<Farden>so...
16:57<Farden>but later, we'll be allowed to do beautiful automated things
16:57<TrueBrain>self-written Makefiles / configure shit is better than that annoying auto* shit :(
16:57<[com]buster>TrueBrain +1
16:58<Farden>I've heard from students in the next class that autotools are worst than hell
16:58<Farden>I will soon see if it's true^^
16:58<Dreamxtreme>TrueBrain FTW!
16:58<OwenS>Autotools... ugh... Theres a reason KDE went Automake -> CMake :p
16:58<TrueBrain>I don't understand why so much projects use them ... 'easy'?
16:58<TrueBrain>:s
16:58<Dreamxtreme>TrueBrain you ever used joomla
16:59<Farden>probably because they produce good looking results?
16:59<Farden>it's nice to see the checklist of ./configure
16:59<Farden>it's looking very geek
16:59<Dreamxtreme>i like KDE
16:59<OwenS>"good looking"? CMake's results are better looking :p
16:59<[com]buster>And it's taking waaaay too much time
16:59<TrueBrain>Dreamxtreme: don't use such words in here
16:59<Dreamxtreme>but it has its floors
16:59<Dreamxtreme>:S
16:59<TrueBrain>Farden: yeah, and that is about all :p
16:59<Farden>[com]buster : I have to agree on that^^
16:59<TrueBrain>it looks cool you check for stdio.h
16:59<Dreamxtreme>ok whats your fav CMS
16:59<TrueBrain>(WTF? If you miss that file, something is VERY wrong :p)
16:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17358 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix: compilation was broken for gcc older than 3.4
17:00<Farden>^^
17:00<TrueBrain>SmatZ: does 2.95.3 work? :p :p :p
17:00<[com]buster>stdafx.h?
17:00*OwenS wonders why MS prefixed that with "std"...
17:00<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: ofcourse it does
17:00<[com]buster>that you are even *manage* to get that through gcc
17:00<Farden>there are still people using older version that 3.0?
17:01<Farden>than*
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>i tried using CMake recently to compile a KDE app
17:01<[com]buster>pre-3.0, no
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>it didn't really give useful error messages
17:01<@Rubidium>(just not on OpenTTD's code base)
17:01<@Rubidium>this is going to look so nice due to all my lagging :)
17:01<TrueBrain>Rubidium: why do I suspect that a vanilla (non-debian) gcc 2.95.3 give me ... funny errors? :)
17:01<[com]buster>But I'm stubbornly refusing to get gcc past 4.2
17:01<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho ;>
17:01<SmatZ>TrueBrain: NO!
17:01<Farden>[com]buster : gcc should ever be 4.2
17:02<Farden>for ethical reasons^^
17:02<TrueBrain>SmatZ: :'( :'( BUT I WANT TO USE GCC 2.95.3!!! I LOVE THAT COMPILER! :p
17:02<SmatZ>I think NoAI merge didn't break that
17:02<SmatZ>(there were fixes after merge to make it work(
17:02<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Huh? Never noticed it not giving nice messages
17:02<SmatZ>but later it broke again
17:02<SmatZ>I waster some time to make it working
17:02<SmatZ>then I gave up :-p
17:02<[com]buster>Right now I'm seriously looking for gcc replacements
17:02<TrueBrain>good choice :)
17:02<SmatZ>*wasted
17:02<TrueBrain>tokai should just make sure MorphOS has a 'recent' compiler :p
17:02<SmatZ>hehe
17:02<SmatZ>@seen tokai
17:02<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: tokai was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 45 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <tokai> Audigex: yes. One way to find out what it means, right? :)
17:03<TrueBrain>[com]buster: tcc? icc? llvm?
17:03<Farden>[com]buster found something good?
17:03<planetmaker>he... wasting time + giving up = good choice? strange... :-P
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17:03<TrueBrain>planetmaker: hehe :) OUT OF CONTEXT! :P
17:03<[com]buster>icc is huge, llvm is still a wip
17:03<planetmaker>hihi :-)
17:03<OwenS>[com]buster: Sun CC?
17:03<OwenS>Not open source though
17:03<TrueBrain>[com]buster: LLVM is going pretty rapid, but yes :)
17:03<TrueBrain>tcc is nice :) 64bit 'works' :)
17:03<Farden>stop with your sun things
17:03<OwenS>Theres also AMD Open64
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: i don't have the error message anymore, but it was something like "error executing <very internal sounding file> - file not found"
17:04<[com]buster>I need something I can compile myself
17:04<OwenS>Eddi|zuHause: Never got such an error =/
17:04<TrueBrain>tcc!
17:04<OwenS>[com]buster: Open64 then :p
17:04<@Rubidium>distcc! :)
17:04<OwenS>Which actually does 32-bit code... stupid Compaq name...
17:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r16492 /trunk (15 files in 5 dirs) (2009-06-01 11:49:46 UTC)
17:04<TrueBrain>OpenTTD!
17:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Remove: support for gcc2. It hasn't been able to compile OTTD for months. All attempts to do another workaround failed.
17:04<[com]buster>lol@distcc
17:04<[com]buster>I actually have that
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>i installed a bunch of packages that were hinted on the "compile this program" wiki page, that apparently fixed it
17:04<TrueBrain>SmatZ: that was a sad day! :p
17:04<SmatZ>;)
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>but i still have no idea what package was missing
17:05<OwenS>So, [com]buster, whats your issue with GCC?
17:05<TrueBrain>BLOATWARE!
17:05<TrueBrain>did I say that out loud?
17:05<[com]buster>^
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17:05<OwenS>Bloatware? And your suggesting replacing it with the itself quite large LLVM? (And I say this as an LLVM fan :P )
17:05<TrueBrain>it is amazing it took THIS LONG before any serious alternative starts to become accepted
17:05<TrueBrain>LLVM is much less bloatware
17:06<OwenS>TrueBrain: I blame the C/C++ grammar :p
17:06<TrueBrain>large != bloat by definition
17:06<[com]buster>llvm can at least target multiple arches with *one* binary
17:06-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: restart]
17:06<OwenS>Also, I blame how hard it is to optimize code :p
17:06<TrueBrain>LLVM does what it says what it does, and nothing more
17:06-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
17:06<OwenS>Whoo... only 40MB of packages left to go
17:06<TrueBrain>gcc on the other hand is one big fucking mess
17:06<[com]buster>h
17:07<+glx>autotools or how to spend more time in configure than in compile
17:07<OwenS>GCC and Binutils are from a back end perspective, I agree
17:07<[com]buster>gcc past 4.2 won't compile properly on cygwin hosts
17:07<TrueBrain>[com]buster: but seriously, if you are looking for something small, C only, try tcc
17:07<SmatZ>sys-devel/gcc-4.4.1 Total size : 59.97 MiB
17:07<OwenS>small, C only, and with an optimizer which is crap :p
17:07<SmatZ>it's not that big
17:07<Farden>[com]buster : did you tried andLinux
17:07<Farden>it looks good
17:07<SmatZ>... when one deleted precompiled headers
17:07<TrueBrain>SmatZ: indeed, size is not related to its bloat-status :)
17:08<SmatZ>TrueBrain: why is it bloated?
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17:08<OwenS>I think it became bloated about the time it grew 5 different internal representations...
17:08<TrueBrain>SmatZ: you don't agree? :p
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... these kabauter thingies must have got into my system now
17:08<SmatZ>TrueBrain: I don't see a reason why it should be bloatware :)
17:08<Dreamxtreme>well this just turned into a all out war
17:09<OwenS>Also... The GCC and Binutils devs apparently have not considered that people may want to port their compiler to target a new architecture...
17:09<[com]buster>And when it started to require odd dependencies
17:09<TrueBrain>given that 'bloatware' is a bit vague, lets define what I think is wrong with GCC: unmangable (the code is a real mess), include-tree is a mess, library-shit is a mess, dep-shit is a mess
17:09<OwenS>Still supports PDP-11...
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>the kmix magically switched from the volume keys changing the "master" slide to changing the "pcm" slide
17:09<SmatZ>well, it is
17:09<TrueBrain>then we continue to talk about targets: every target follows other rules. Gentoo did a good effort unifying them, but still you hav etrouble that for some targets things are called different
17:09<SmatZ>PDP ftw!
17:10<OwenS>GCC and Binutils have HORRENDOUS developer documentation
17:10<[com]buster>Supporting PDP-11 is teh fail
17:10<OwenS>Tell me if you can find a useful document on how to target them to a new architecture
17:10<OwenS>I searched for hours. ONE DOES NOT EXIST. FOR A COMPILER PROJECT THIS IS RIDICULOUS
17:10<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: KILL THEM! BE THE OVERLORD! :) (play Overlord 2, and you understand the reference)
17:10<[com]buster>and you need to be a geek to even ead the user manual
17:11<OwenS>[com]buster: To be fair, compilers are targetted at geeks :p
17:11<TrueBrain>SmatZ: on top of that, gcc silently assumes glibc and binutils
17:11<[com]buster>OwenS: not every software developer is
17:11<TrueBrain>gcc (a few targets at least) have hardcoded directories
17:11<TrueBrain>it can leak memory like a maniac, untracable
17:11<OwenS>TrueBrain: GCC allows you to disable use of glibc
17:11-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-28-7-22.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit []
17:11<SmatZ>TrueBrain: I am running gcc with uclibc ;) (gentoo, maybe patched)
17:11<TrueBrain>I never said it was impossible
17:12<TrueBrain>I said it silently assumes it
17:12<[com]buster>gentoo, patches guaranteed :)
17:12<OwenS>--freestanding or --with-newlib depending upon your preferences IIRC :p
17:12<TrueBrain>you need to patch it to make it to work
17:12<[com]buster>--without-headers --with-newlib ;)
17:12<TrueBrain>so yes, I consider gcc bloatware and in need of replacement
17:12<Dreamxtreme>grr
17:12<TrueBrain>(long overdue, if you ask me)
17:12<OwenS>[com]buster: The --with-newlib is, what, 2 minor, a major and 4 minor revisions out of date? :p
17:13<Dreamxtreme>why doesnt this thing upload
17:13*Dreamxtreme gives his router a kick
17:13<TrueBrain>so 6 minors?
17:13<TrueBrain>6 times 3 is also legal
17:13<OwenS>TrueBrain: Yes. I'm just pointing out the major in the middle of that :p
17:13<@Rubidium>hmm... complaining about scripts that check for stdio.h and complaining about stuff that assumes that certain things are installed...
17:13<SmatZ>18
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain> 6 times 3 is also legal <-- that sounds very awful
17:14<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: it is, and I felt ashamed I said it out loud
17:14<TrueBrain>I am happy SmatZ is so naief he didn't understand it ;)
17:14<TrueBrain>Rubidium: fair point :)
17:14-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: nog een poging]
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17:15<[com]buster>bottom line
17:15<[com]buster>GCC is built to force you into using more FSF crap
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>the fun starts if they switch glibc into (strict) GPL :)
17:16<OwenS>The only project more annoying is glibc...
17:16<TrueBrain>OwenS: on that I fully agree
17:16-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@227.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
17:16<OwenS>In no small part because of <whatshisname>...
17:16<Terkhen>hello
17:16<TrueBrain>the few replacement libs are pretty nice
17:16<TrueBrain>sadly, hard to compile your system to use them :s
17:16<TrueBrain>Terkhen: howdie
17:16<[com]buster>glibc is 5% c library, 95% crap others wanted to have
17:17<TrueBrain>you know what, lets make a new OS, which doesn't have that crap!! :p
17:17<TrueBrain>make it binary compatible with Windows, *nix, BSD (and OSX)!
17:17<@Rubidium>ah well, with gcc 4.4 they might have made a good step into distros not using it :)
17:17<SmatZ>libc would be enough
17:17<[com]buster>http://dimensionalrift.homelinux.net/combuster/mos3 <-shameless plug
17:17<planetmaker>called brainos?
17:17<[com]buster>(and way ahead of you)
17:18<TrueBrain>even workable images? Impressive ;)
17:18<[com]buster>its still pre-alpha
17:18-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-27-236-169.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:18<OwenS>[com]buster: PD is quite an interesting choice as not all countries have such a concept
17:19<TrueBrain>I once started an OS .. never came past the point of implementing something real :p
17:19<+glx>let's call it weirdos ;)
17:19<TrueBrain>put it under PD and CC-ZERO, and you should be fine for most countries :)
17:19<TrueBrain>glx: I really do like that :)
17:19<[com]buster>I'm currently trying to get hardware 3d working ;)
17:19-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has left #openttd []
17:19<TrueBrain>well .. I first have another project to launch ;)
17:20<OwenS>[com]buster: on an nVidia card was it not you were working?
17:20<TrueBrain>I personally like HelenOS
17:20<[com]buster>Nvidia's have nice bioses that don't need workarounds
17:20<OwenS>Hehe
17:20<[com]buster>and I only have one nv card
17:20<OwenS>"The 'pcieb' driver shares the alias 'pciexclass,060401' with the 'pcie_pci'" <-- O_o
17:20-!-tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: sounds very greek-ish ;)
17:21-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:21<OwenS>That concerns me slightly because my HTPC's mobo + graphics card combination requires a Solaris PCIE on Intel workarround...
17:21<[com]buster>hµhµ
17:22*OwenS crosses fingers it's nothing
17:22<OwenS>Because otherwise I'm going to get further acquainted with SunOS' Kernel Debugger
17:23<OwenS>(Meh, if it were Linux, I would be pulling hardware to get to the settings file. No complaints there)
17:23<Dreamxtreme>hmm
17:24<Dreamxtreme>my scenario file isnt uploading properly to the forum attachment
17:24<TrueBrain>I wish you all a very good night :)
17:24<Dreamxtreme>the uploader closes but it doesnt show in the forum
17:24<[com]buster>'night TB
17:24<OwenS>TrueBrain: Night
17:24<OwenS>Well... time to boot the HTPC into opensolaris-2
17:25<TrueBrain>OwenS: I want a HTPC which communicates with my xbox ... till now I failed to do that correctly under linux :p
17:25<TrueBrain>and I refuse to instlal windows for it :p
17:25<OwenS>Xbox360? Fleeh
17:25<OwenS>PS3 FTW :P
17:25<Eddi|zuHause><[com]buster> hµhµ <- that is very evil. my eyes always try to read "huhu" while my brain tries to read "hmhm"... now they are constantly fighting each other
17:25<TrueBrain>oh, my bed .. right
17:25<OwenS>Though both use UPNP :p
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17:26<OwenS>[com]buster: Can I just say that http://dimensionalrift.homelinux.net/combuster/mos3/snaps/mos_ia-pc_1_Startup%20Screen.PNG is quite messy? :p
17:26<[com]buster>Feel free
17:26<OwenS>"pfexec shutdown -i6 -g0" weeii
17:27<[com]buster>its one of the initial debug screens
17:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17359 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: put static before cv qualifier, some compilers complain about that
17:29-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
17:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17360 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r17329): the 'track' and 'title' texts were lost in the conversion to nested widgets
17:31<OwenS>Same Intel hardware bug workaround bug. GAH! kernel debugger workaround workaround time..
17:31<SmatZ>hehe
17:32<Dreamxtreme>o The attachment’s file size is too large, the maximum upload size is 4 MB.
17:32<SmatZ>OwenS: what are you doing?
17:33-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
17:35<+tokai>hmm.. quite a stupid bot :)
17:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17361 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17360): committed a bit too much
17:35<OwenS>SmatZ: Getting OpenSolaris to boot on Intel hardware with a PCI-E bug...
17:36-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:37<SmatZ>OwenS: I didn't know about any such bug :-x
17:39-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-27-236-169.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:43<OwenS>SmatZ: Theres apparently a need for an "rber workaround". I have no clue what that means :p
17:43-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
17:43<SmatZ>:)
17:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17362 /trunk/src/lang/afrikaans.txt: -Fix (r17360): alignment in afrikaans.txt was wrong
17:43<OwenS>Or rather is sometimes a need for it and sometimes not. And the kernel doesn't currently know when it is needed and when not. And when not it crashes :p
17:44-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-27-236-169.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:44<Kaas>is it possible to replace electric trains to monorail train with the replace trains button?
17:44<SmatZ>no
17:44<Kaas>lol
17:45<Kaas>mkay..
17:45<SmatZ>"lol" is banned today :-p
17:45<OwenS>"~Chris_Boo@client" /me wonders what OS truncates usernames at 9 characters..
17:45<SmatZ>hehe
17:45<Kaas>well, i can agree on that
17:46<Kaas>im not going to manually replace 261 trains >_>
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>i recommend you using a newgrf
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>and i believe i said that before
17:47<Kaas>which newgrf do you recommend?
17:48<Kaas>as there are like 200 different ones
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>most newgrf rail sets discourage switching from conventional rail to maglev
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, most of the times you'd be focusing on the railset of one country
17:48<@Rubidium>don't underestimate the number of NewGRFs :)
17:48<DaleStan>We recommend one set at a time. Alphabetical order, maybe?
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>so you'd use a canadian set, or an american set, or a uk set, or a german set
17:49<OwenS>Though multiple at once are now supported it tends to cause unfortunate results :p
17:49<Kaas>is there one that has the same stats for all trains, only that they all run on normal un-elecrtified tracks?
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>you can write that yourself :p
17:49<OwenS>Thats rather unrealistic :p
17:49<Kaas>the same stats as the original trains*
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>you don't actually have to know the stats
17:49<Kaas>well, that way you can play the game without having to replace 262 trains manually
17:50*OwenS expects Belugas to say something about realism :p
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>Kaas: it's just a couple of lines of NFO
17:51<Farden>gnuit
17:51<Kaas>is it? *searches config file*
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17:51<Yexo>Kaas: nfo != config file
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>NFO ain't going to be in the config file
17:51<OwenS>Kaas: NFO = NewGRF language :
17:51<OwenS>:p
17:51<Kaas>jeez, who invented that newgrf
17:52<DaleStan>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'd go for Josef Drexler
17:52<DaleStan>The GRF container was invented by the TTD team.
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>DaleStan: TTO uses a different container format?
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>i'd guess rather not
17:53<DaleStan>... Unlikely, actually. So the TTO team.
17:53<fjb>Me? What about me? Oh, OpenTTD on FreeBSD. Runs great.
17:53<DaleStan>The NFO file format and programming language were invented by Josef and Michael Blunck, and extended and/or improved upon by various members of the TTDPatch and OpenTTD teams.
17:53<Yexo>DaleStan: if I update the nforenum data files, should I only increase the second byte and leave the first one alone?
17:54<DaleStan>I'd recommend making the second match whatever is in the current source.
17:54<Kaas>is there a way to rip the original trainset?
17:55<Ammler>Kaas: yes, nfo
17:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17363 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp road_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#3163] (r16717): feed autoreplace the front of vehicles, otherwise it gets distracted and bails out
17:55<Ammler>or grfcodoc I guess
17:55<Ammler>e
17:55<Yexo>why match current source? so that if the source is updated my data gets overwritten with the new 'official' data files?
17:55<Kaas>this might be a noob question, where do i find the NFO?
17:55<DaleStan>Kaas: GRFCodec outputs it.
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>Kaas: it is not necessary, the NFO language keeps all default values, you only need to set the things you want changed
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>which is the railtype property
17:56<Kaas>:\
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>Kaas: i suggest you try to base your efforts on the "origeng.grf", after you read through the NFO tutorial
17:57<DaleStan>Yexo: True. So it depends on how persistent you want your datafiles to be. As long as the first matches and the source-code version of the second is no greater than the file-version, NFORenum will use the the on-disk version.
17:57<Yexo>ok, great
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>(you find the tutorial in the above link)
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17:58<Ammler>Kaas: you could use my logic train as example, it uses the toyland maglev and has a configurable speed
17:59<Ammler>(http://trac.openttdcoop.org/browser/grfdev/logic/makegrf)
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly certain "for all engines, set property <railtype> to <conventional>" can be expressed in one NFO pseudosprite
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18:01<Ammler>oh, that's all he want :-)
18:01<Kaas>Ammler: that looks simple to edit. Do you have a link for the original train set in NFO?
18:01<DaleStan>Eddi|zuHause: Correct. Plus, of course, sprite 0 and action 8. Total file size will be about 130-150 bytes.
18:01<Ammler>Kaas: original has no nfo, well no pseudo sprites
18:02<DaleStan>Kaas: The original train set in NFO is an empty file.
18:02<Kaas>;|
18:02<DaleStan>NFO uses the defaults when no other settings are present.
18:02<Kaas>ugh
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>i said that like three times already
18:02<DaleStan>More accurately, NFO uses the defaults unless set otherwise.
18:03<Kaas>and i still cant believe it, eddi :P
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18:04<Kaas>there are just 2 things that i want: original train set, but all trains drive on normal track.
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, and the first thing requires 0 lines of NFO, the second thing requires 1 line of NFO
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>plus the mandatory things which the tutorial tell you
18:06<Ammler>http://trac.openttdcoop.org/browser/grfdev/earlyhouses/makegrf <-- this nfo does change all original houses in one properity, so you could adapt that to trains.
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18:06*OwenS notes solaris has a "genunix" module... Genuine Unix?
18:07<OwenS>Why does one need a "genuine unix" module? or is it "general unix?" =S
18:07<Kaas>could i ask from you if you could do that for me? so i dont have to go through the tutorial for 1 line of NFO
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>OwenS: they homephone and tell you when you've got a pirated copy?
18:07<@Belugas>mmgh?
18:07<@Belugas>ho.. pfffff... running gag... look at me.. i'm a realistic clown
18:07<@Rubidium>Belugas: still not home? poor you
18:07<@Rubidium>slow Toronto guy :(
18:07<@Belugas>nope, still chained
18:08<@Belugas>ho he's gone alright...
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>Kaas: no, you won't get anything for free
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18:08<@Belugas>i'm just trying to get my head up
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>Kaas: you could, however, just replace your 200something trains
18:09<Kaas>i would, if there was a button for it.
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>we have already given you more than any other person who asked for that button
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>it's up to you to follow a few simple steps that already have been layed out for you
18:11<OwenS>w00t. /me may have mplayer + vdpau soon
18:11<Ammler>you could also enable "vehicle never expire" and continue with the trains you have.
18:12<Ammler>or start a new map with start year 2050
18:13<Kaas>k, ill figure it out. thanks for the help ;)
18:14-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@227.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:18<@Belugas>now i'm gone
18:18<@Belugas>bye bye
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18:20<@Rubidium>night Belugas
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18:22<planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/383/crashlog.diff <-- it would be nice, if someone could see whether this creates a crash.log on windows
18:26<planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/384/crashlog_winlin.diff <-- sorry, better that one :-) It's a patch for OpenTTD r17334
18:26<planetmaker>the first one won't apply on clean trunk ;-)
18:26<Dreamxtreme>i take most of you guys run the nightly
18:27<Dreamxtreme>i take it even
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18:28<Yexo>planetmaker: there is an fclose missing in CanCreateCrashLog
18:28<planetmaker>hm
18:29-!-AC6000 [~AC6000@51-103.186-72.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
18:29<planetmaker>you're right :-)
18:29<planetmaker>as usual
18:30<planetmaker>file updated
18:31<Yexo>new url?
18:31<planetmaker>nope :-)
18:31<Yexo>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/384/crashlog_winlin.diff <- gives a 404
18:31<planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/385/crashlog_winlin.diff
18:31<planetmaker>meh. it adds numbers to the files :S
18:33<Yexo>it doesn't compile, it needs crash.h as include in os/windows/win32.cpp
18:33<planetmaker>uhm.... yes.
18:33<Yexo>and os/windows/win32.cpp already has GamelogPrintCrashLogProc, so that one has to be commented out
18:34<planetmaker>yes... I could swear I did that... :S
18:37<planetmaker>http://www-public.tu-bs.de/~borstel/crashlog_winlin.diff
18:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17364 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17356): off by one when selecting a subsidy
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18:40<planetmaker>^ again updated :-)
18:40<planetmaker>and now with "permanent" link
18:43*planetmaker is off to bed and wishes a good night here to all
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18:56<OwenS>WEEEI! I GOT MPLAYER-VDPAU WORKING ON SOLARIS! :D
18:56<OwenS>Now the only problem I've got is re-encoding the HD XviD some moron created...
18:57<+glx>planetmaker: your diff will remove some all windows crash info
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19:10<AC6000>hey Lakie
19:11<Lakie>'Morning
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19:25<@Rubidium>hi Lakie
19:25<@Rubidium>night Lakie ;)
19:26<Lakie>Lol, night Rubidium
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19:34<Terkhen>good night
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21:10<z-MaTRiX>reloaded
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21:20<Dreamxtreme>revolutions
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22:38<@Belugas>resolutions
22:38<@Belugas>convolutions
22:38<@Belugas>absolutions
22:38<@Belugas>crucifictions
22:38<@Belugas>factsOrFictions
22:39<@Belugas>comeHereMyMinons
22:39<+glx>lol
22:48<@Belugas>hehe;)
22:48<@Belugas>see what certifications can do to a sane mind ;)
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22:54<+glx>night
22:55-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:444c:38d9:61b1:beea] has quit [Quit: bye]
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23:08-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:12-!-[com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
23:12-!-[alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:13-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
23:20*Akoz slaps Belugas around a bit with a large trout
23:39-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:43-!-TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
23:49-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
---Logclosed Wed Sep 02 00:00:36 2009