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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-04

---Logopened Fri Sep 04 00:00:36 2009
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03:36<Terkhen>good morning
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05:08<@Rubidium>morning TrueBrain :)
05:08<TrueBrain>where?
05:08<TrueBrain>where?
05:09<@Rubidium>somewhere near a keyboard
05:09<TrueBrain>ieuw
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05:18<planetmaker>good morning
05:18<planetmaker>Rubidium, yesterday I meant this method to get the MacOS version number: http://the-banana-peel.saltybanana.com/2007/11/programmatically-determine-mac-os-x.html
05:19<planetmaker>it works only, if compiled with cocoa. But every mac system supported should have that.
05:19<@Rubidium>also dedicated servers?
05:19<@Rubidium>AFAIK those aren't compiled with cocoa
05:19<planetmaker>Honestly, I have no idea.
05:20<planetmaker>But it should be a pretty fail-save way to get the version.
05:20<planetmaker>with that we then have three options :-)
05:20<@Rubidium>but why 10.4.9 for tiger and 10.5 for leopard?
05:20<@Rubidium>why not 10.5.0 or so?
05:20<@Rubidium>and how does it play with 10.4.11?
05:21<planetmaker>I haven't tested extensively, but it reported the correct one on my machine. It's an XML file basically which is read. But my impress wa
05:21<planetmaker>s that it would work correctly then on others, too
05:22<planetmaker> /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemVersion.plist <-- one could then try to read that directly, if desired.
05:22<TrueBrain>10.5.6 reports correctly
05:22<planetmaker>but that'd be a hack.
05:22<TrueBrain>10.6.0 not so much, that reports 10.6
05:22<planetmaker>he
05:23<TrueBrain>but that might be because of the .0 :p
05:23<TrueBrain>haven't installed 10.6.1 yet
05:23<@Rubidium>hmm, yet... 1) it is no API, so it can only fail at run time; 2) where is it documented? If it ain't documented it something unofficial, which might be troublesome for further versions
05:23<planetmaker>it's documented. somewhere in the cocoa stuff
05:23<@Rubidium>planetmaker: then show me that documentation
05:25<planetmaker>http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/sw_vers.1.html
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05:25<planetmaker>eh...
05:29<@Rubidium>oh lovely... people are telling how to manually modify that file
05:30<planetmaker>:-D
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05:36<@Rubidium>anyhow, I'll probably end up writing a generic unix crash handler/logger and whoever becomes the OSX maintainer can then override that
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05:37<@Rubidium>and he (or she?) can then be blamed for all failures related with it :)
05:37<@Rubidium>anyhow, dedicated servers don't do cocoa
05:38<TrueBrain>use libxml2 to read the file :)
05:39<@Rubidium>nah, just use readline to ask for the version
05:39<TrueBrain>just use the patch planetmaker had, sounds sufficient enough to me
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05:57<TrueBrain>lol, VMWare is so broken in SCSI passthrough ......
05:57<TrueBrain>my external HD just self-powered-down, while vmware is trying to access the drive or what ever
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06:30<TrueBrain>vmware-workstation at least does boot from the external
06:34<TrueBrain>but something now damaged my installs ... grr :p
06:34<TrueBrain>plists are damaged :'(
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06:37<TrueBrain>having no idea which plist, will not help :p
06:44<TrueBrain>and not having VT-x is NOT HELPING :p
06:44<@orudge>hmm, tt-forums has only used 28GB of IPv6 bandwidth since we started IPv6 on the forums
06:44<@orudge>compared to 939GB of IPv4 bandwidth
06:45<Noldo>interesting
06:46<TrueBrain>hmm .. I have nothing installed which tells me what is IPv4 and IPv6 :p
06:46<TrueBrain>I can only see that yesterday 4.2% of the IPs are IPv6 which hit the http
06:46<TrueBrain>and that it consumes 2% of the bandwidth (of http)
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06:47<TrueBrain>poor results, orudge :(
06:47<@orudge>mmh
06:48<kingpin>hello is there any one that can help me i whant to host a game on a sever where there is no sound drive the new versien off ttd needs the sound drive why???
06:48<kingpin>version
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06:49<TrueBrain>and that is the word you correct, lol :)
06:49<kingpin>aha
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07:15<planetmaker>Rubidium, what is then wrong with the version detection I gave you initially on FS? It seems established and it works fine...
07:15<planetmaker>but it's good to know that cocoa cannot be used on servers. Thanks for that :-)
07:18<Ammler>he, again fun to read some lines back here...
07:20<planetmaker>but I'll try the pure gestalt way next week (hopefully)
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07:35<@Rubidium>planetmaker: for one it looked overly complex, secondly why a different way for < 10.3 (according to the API it's also supported in 10.3). Finally we don't support < 10.3.9; it likely won't even start due to dynamic link errors (so the crash handler is never ran)
07:37<planetmaker>uhm... it treats versions < 10.4 differently.
07:37<planetmaker>and 10.3 is still supported
07:38<@Rubidium>yeah, the first 10.3 should've been 10.4
07:38<planetmaker>and 10.4+ needs different treatment due to two-digit numbers
07:39<@Rubidium>so you implement it in two ways, where the first way only works for 10.3 and the second way works for all versions (including 10.3)
07:39<@Rubidium>sounds like making it more complex than needed
07:39<planetmaker>eh?
07:40<planetmaker>it's exactly one if case: i(condensed value) < 10.4 ? first way : way for everything 10.4+
07:41<planetmaker>if (systemVersion < 0x1040) { (10.3.x way } else { (10.4+ way) }
07:41<planetmaker>in GetMacOSVersion
07:41<@Rubidium>now *imagine* the 10.4+ way is actually the 10.3+ way
07:42<planetmaker>you say, the 10.4+ way should work for 10.3, too?
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07:42<@Rubidium>well, the API specs seem to say that
07:42<planetmaker>If so, then the if can surely be removed.
07:42<@Rubidium>gestaltSystemVersionMinor
07:42<@Rubidium>The minor system version number. For example, in 10.4.12, this would be the decimal value 4.
07:43<@Rubidium>Available in Mac OS X v10.3 and later.
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07:45<planetmaker>Well. Then it can be simplified.
07:46<planetmaker>But the difference is the treatment of GetMacOSVersionBugfix() iirc
07:46<welshdragon>but Mac's version numbering isn't 10.5.whatever
07:47<planetmaker>If you say, that all three, GetMacOSVersion<Major|Minor|Bugfix>() work for 10.3 - fine. Then everything's simple
07:47<welshdragon>it's a 4 digit number
07:47<planetmaker>welshdragon, ?
07:47<@Rubidium>I am just quoting the API
07:47<@Rubidium>I have no way to test it though
07:47<@Rubidium>but that's a bit the problem with OSX, getting patches/changes tested on all it's incompatible variants
07:47<planetmaker>As I've no way to test it, I STFW and found various places which did it the way I implemented it the diff.
07:48<welshdragon>planetmaker: the version number of OSX is 10.5.4/5/6. but there are build numbers also
07:48<+glx>I can test on 10.3.9 and 10.4.8
07:50<planetmaker>10.3.9 would be interesting to know what it does with the 10.4+ way
07:51<@Rubidium>for what it's worth: I dislike code that does stuff because "that's how I found it on the internet"; after all, the internet also says that (for some problems) you should change the version in that plist file, while other pages talk about irrepairably trashing your system when you do that (need to reinstall)
07:53<@Rubidium>and if code does strange/odd things because it doesn't conform to the specs it needs some explanation about that
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07:57<planetmaker>I know that "others do it, too" is no good argument.
08:00<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/216728 <--- glx - I haven't tested it here (as I don't have my laptop available), but that might actually compile and tell what the version detection says on 10.3
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08:00<glx>so nice, snow leopard installs an insecure flash player (and overwrites the secure one if it's present without notice)
08:01<planetmaker>:-) yup, it does.
08:01<planetmaker>17 revisions older
08:01<glx>10.6.1 will come quickly I guess
08:01<planetmaker>hehe
08:02<glx>or at least it could be available via the update system
08:04<glx>I can't compile on 10.3.9 :)
08:04<glx>10.3.9 SDK is not available on 10.3.9
08:04<planetmaker>http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/Carbon/Reference/Gestalt_Manager/Reference/reference.html#//apple_ref/c/econst/gestaltSystemVersionBugFix <-- Rubidium: the docs are inconsistent
08:04<De_Ghosty>MAC IS FAIL :o
08:04<glx>yeah I know it's silly
08:05<planetmaker>gestaltSystemVersion (...) In Mac OS X v10.4 and later, a better way to get system version information is to use the selectors gestaltSystemVersionMajor, gestaltSystemVersionMinor, and gestaltSystemVersionBugFix
08:05<planetmaker>but then, yes, they are declared to be available since 10.3
08:05<glx>they are available in 10.3 IIRC
08:06<planetmaker>then I should simplify the patch. In the faith that it works :-P
08:06<glx>anyway openttd is not compilable on 10.3.9
08:06<planetmaker>which 10.3.x is it then compatible with?
08:07<planetmaker>oh. compilable ;-)
08:07<glx>and I don't want to imagine how much time it would need to compile if it was possible
08:08<glx>(pearpc is not the fastest thing)
08:08<planetmaker>:-)
08:08<planetmaker>VMs never are
08:08<glx>10.4.8 in vmware already needs 45min for a non universal build
08:09<planetmaker>my WinXP on a VM is also way more sluggish (e.g. with grfcodec / renum) than native mac renum / grfcodec
08:09<planetmaker>or the make scripts for the newgrfs.
08:09<glx>use native then :)
08:09<planetmaker>I do. :-)
08:10<planetmaker>but it wasn't always available :-P
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08:16<planetmaker>glx, is your PearPC emulating intel or ppc?
08:16<glx>analyse it's name :)
08:16<glx>and tell me if 10.3 was available for intel :)
08:18<planetmaker>:-) right. stupid question.
08:22<@Rubidium>give me a patch and I can cross compile it if necessary
08:23<welshdragon>can i change the number of allowed companies in multiplayer?
08:24<planetmaker>Rubidium, http://paste.openttd.org/216728 should be a working small test programme
08:24<planetmaker>for testing that might make more sense as it doesn't mean to first crash OpenTTD ;-)
08:25<@Rubidium>planetmaker: that doesn't compile at all
08:25<glx>paste is not good for patches
08:25<@Rubidium>test.cpp:10: error: conflicting declaration 'int version_bugfix'
08:25<@Rubidium>test.cpp:9: error: 'version_bugfix' has a previous declaration as 'SInt32 version_bugfix'
08:25<glx>lol
08:26<glx>declared twice
08:26<planetmaker>yeah. The 2nd one should read disp_ instead of _version
08:26<planetmaker>But so the output has to be adjusted to disp_ istead of _version
08:27<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/216729
08:27<glx>hmm no missing ifs?
08:28<glx>please compile before posting ;)
08:28<planetmaker>without mac at hand
08:28<planetmaker>it's difficult. Or I'd have done it. For sure.
08:29<glx>compile in your head at least :)
08:29<planetmaker>I know that chances are 90% that I screw up w/o test :-)
08:29<@Rubidium>I've got locally something that compiles now
08:30<@Rubidium>bah... Gestalt needs cocoa
08:31<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/test <- ppc binary
08:31<glx>ok starting ppc
08:31<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/test.cpp <- the actual code
08:32<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/test-x86 < x86 binary
08:33<glx>I won't start 2 VMs at the same time :)
08:36<TrueBrain>lol
08:36<TrueBrain>pussy
08:36<planetmaker>miaoo
08:36<TrueBrain>hihi
08:36<@Rubidium>ah well, I don't install vmware (I really hate it)
08:37<TrueBrain>strange .. when I boot from my real system, plist files are in good order, when I boot via vmware, it complains ... :(
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08:39<glx>Version: 10.3.9 [1039]
08:40<planetmaker>nice.
08:40<De_Ghosty> http://www.wimp.com/innovativecommercial/
08:41<planetmaker>then that should be settled.
08:41<glx>now testing on 10.4.8 intel
08:42<planetmaker>that will work
08:42<planetmaker>but of course one never knows ;-)
08:45<@Rubidium>anyhow, I did also prove that it doesn't work without cocoa
08:45*Rubidium is gone for a while now
08:45<planetmaker>yes.
08:46<planetmaker>but otoh then it has been used before, too.
08:46<planetmaker>in exactly the same place
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08:49<glx>strange, 10.3.9 is more reactive than 10.4.8
08:53<glx>works on 10.4.8 too
08:53<glx>but someone should test the result on 10.4.11
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09:06<planetmaker>well. The code worked inside OpenTTD on my machine
09:07<planetmaker>that's the code of the patch I supplied
09:08<planetmaker>and my machine has 10.4.11 :-)
09:08<planetmaker>basically that's how it all started :-P
09:09<TrueBrain>what does the hex value give?
09:09<TrueBrain>104B?
09:10<TrueBrain>as I would have expected A39 for 10.3.9 in the first place :p
09:11<planetmaker>I don't remember.
09:11<TrueBrain>let me know tonight or something :) I am curious about those things :)
09:13<planetmaker>"The problem with gestaltSystemVersion is that it's limited in the range of versions it can support. For example, 10.4.11 is actually reported as 0x1049"
09:14<planetmaker>http://www.cocoadev.com/index.pl?DeterminingOSVersion
09:14<TrueBrain>hehe
09:14<TrueBrain>nasty :)
09:14<planetmaker>that's actually the current situation.
09:14<SmatZ>looks like MS designed this part of OSX
09:15*TrueBrain gniffels at SmatZ
09:15*SmatZ doesn't know what TrueBrain does :(
09:16<TrueBrain>maybe that is for the better
09:16<planetmaker>:-D
09:16<planetmaker>he had to ... because he knew too much? ;-)
09:17<planetmaker>(insert word of choice) ^
09:17<TrueBrain>piss?
09:17<TrueBrain>jump?
09:17<TrueBrain>sing?
09:17<planetmaker>don't be cruel :-P
09:17<TrueBrain>(and yes, that were the first 3 words that popped in my mind :p)
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09:27<LivingDeadBeat>hey?
09:28<LivingDeadBeat>is it possible to connect through sockets to an OpenTTD Server and run rcon commands on it?
09:29<TrueBrain>only if that application that connects is an OpenTTD client
09:29<glx>or acts like a client
09:29<glx>anyway it will use a client slot
09:29<LivingDeadBeat>Yeah, i've tried a few things, when i connect to my server, it says a new client has been connected, and disconnects me within a few seconds..
09:30<glx>means you didn't act like a client :)
09:30<LivingDeadBeat>yeah, but i've no idea how to act like a client.. also cant find any documenation on the internet =(
09:31<TrueBrain>that is mostly as you are not supposed to ;)
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09:31<glx>some info is on the wiki though
09:32<glx>(maybe outdated)
09:32<TrueBrain>-maybe :p
09:32<glx>but a good base to know what to look for in the source
09:32<TrueBrain>even at time of the first version, the documentation of the network protocl was outdated on the wiki :) Incode comments were plenty ;)
09:33<LivingDeadBeat>hmmm..
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>didn't ottdlib do something like this?
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>or one of the python thingies was at least trying to
09:34<glx>ottdlib only retriev server info IIRC
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09:41<TrueBrain>#22 0x00000000 in ?? () <- can never be a good thing ...
09:42<TrueBrain>I LOVE stack corruption, and I am SO GOOD in causing them :)
09:44<@Belugas>hello
09:44*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
09:45*Belugas hugs TrueBrain to the point of popping eyes
09:45<TrueBrain>ieuw
09:46<@Belugas>:)
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>and i love amarok crashing
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>and they still have not managed a system where you can save the settings without quitting
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i _never ever_ quit amarok regularly
09:50*Prof_Frink corrupts TrueBrain's stack
09:50<Eddi|zuHause># fuck you
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09:50<TrueBrain>Prof_Frink: are you willing to pay that price?
09:50-!-Tefad [~tefad@c-98-249-11-38.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:50<Eddi|zuHause># fuck you very very much
09:51-!-thisismynick [~chatzilla@77.51.93.3] has joined #openttd
09:51<Prof_Frink>Depends. Is it more or less than £2.60?
09:51-!-Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [anti-virus program active .. eleminating stack corrupting application .. done]
09:51<Eddi|zuHause># fuck you, fuck you, fuck you
09:52<Eddi|zuHause># fuck yooooooouuuuuuuu
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09:53<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: please be polite
09:53<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: find a girl :P
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>hey, that's the song ;)
09:53<welshdragon>or a guy
09:53<welshdragon>(depends if you swing that way or not xD )
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09:54<Prof_Frink>That's not very nice.
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09:54<TrueBrain>you corrupted my stack, I can't be held responsible for my actions!
09:54<TrueBrain>I can't even remember what I did .. did I do something? :)
09:55*TrueBrain hugs Prof_Frink
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09:57*Prof_Frink gives TrueBrain a cookie
09:57*welshdragon gives Prof_Frink a badger
09:58<TrueBrain>Thank you!!!!
09:58*Prof_Frink looks around for a bottle opener
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: http://stuff.twoday.net/
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10:02<Prof_Frink>Genie arse.
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>(heading says "1000 ways to open a beer")
10:04<planetmaker>nice, the Wahl-o-mat is online now in Germany :-)
10:04<Prof_Frink>I worked that out.
10:04<planetmaker>and it confirmed what I suspected I should vote for anyway ;-)
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>"none of the above" :p
10:06<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, it offers the choice of all parties which can be elected.
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10:46<glx>Eddi|zuHause: 991 failed
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>?
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>ah, beer opening method
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10:47<glx>yes
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the beer was bad
10:48<SmatZ>look like fakes
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
10:49<SmatZ>using bread to open beer? like, wtf?
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10:50<Eddi|zuHause>the "bottle opener" one is great ;(
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>;)
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>036
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10:53<glx>yeah using the normal side was too easy
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11:00<Eddi|zuHause>(related: http://nothingforungood.com/2008/05/09/germans-have-macgyver-like-abilities-in-opening-beer-bottles/)
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11:06<glx>hehe I used the lighter method :)
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11:38<planetmaker>hehe, those methods are nice :-)
11:39<planetmaker>SmatZ: and certainly they aren't fake :-)
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11:49<Nickman87>hi Alberth, I updated my patch again ;)
11:49<Alberth>I noticed, will have a look at it tonight.
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12:19<Nickman87>I noticed some of the GUI code changed :). Some more abstraction trough functions instead of just assigning variables directly
12:20<Nickman87>more robust design this way ;)
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm, so i have two identical engines, one engine derails always at the same place, and the other does not...
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12:52<Alberth>Nickman87: easier to make code consistent that way.
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17412 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 50 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: estonian - 23 changes by KSiimson
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 7 changes by mtxd
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 46 changes by SupSuper
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:47<Chruker>How come that sometimes road vehicles overtake others while other times they just sit behind it waiting for it to run again?
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13:49<@Belugas>depends of the union they signed in
13:50<@Belugas>they=the drivers...
13:51<Yexo>Chruker: most notable articulated road vehicles can't overtake
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13:52<@Belugas>i think it depends if (joke apart) there was a vehicle coming the other way when they wanted to overcome the slow one
13:53<@Belugas>not 100% sure
13:53<@Belugas>it's somewhere on the sources, for sure.
13:53<@Belugas>it's not a random decision
13:54<Chruker>I thought I typed it, but I mean when a vehicle breaks down sometime the other vehicles overtake it and other times they just sit they and wait.
13:55<@Belugas>i think it depends if (joke apart) there was a vehicle coming the other way when they wanted to overcome the slow one
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13:59<Chruker>Yeah
14:00<Chruker>However even on oneway roads they some time dont overtake.
14:00<@Belugas>it's somewhere on the sources, for sure..not 100% sure
14:00<@Belugas>it's not a random decision
14:01<@Belugas>and i don't have the sources with me and i'm not thrilled about a chase for such an info
14:02<@Belugas>sorry
14:06<PeterT>what do i need to use to start with 32b?
14:06<PeterT>graphics?
14:06<glx>-b32bpp-optimised
14:06<PeterT>thanks glx
14:06<PeterT>do i place the tar file into data?
14:07<PeterT>and will latest nightly work?
14:07<glx>of course
14:07<PeterT>ok
14:07<glx>but be sure you are not using extra zoom tars as they don't work in openttd
14:07<Chruker>I'm not saying the drivers a flipping a coin to see if they should overtake. If 2 vehicles are going along as close as they can, and the first vehicle breaks down then the 2nd one doesnt overtake. However if the 2nd one enters slightly after the 1st one have broken down, it'll overtake.
14:08<Chruker>They also wont overtake when there are more than 1 vehicle stopped.
14:10<PeterT>glx: no i am not
14:11<PeterT>if they dont work, why are they made?
14:11<Terkhen>because there's a patch that allows you to use them
14:11<PeterT>oh
14:12<PeterT>so they dont work in Normal ottd
14:13<@Belugas>[14:08] <Chruker> They also wont overtake when there are more than 1 vehicle stopped. <-- that I would find normal...
14:13<@Belugas>i wold not overtake two stopped vehicles myself...
14:13<Chruker>Me neighter on 2-way streets but on 1-way streets I would use all lanes
14:14<@Belugas>YOU CRAZY DRIVER!
14:15<Doorslammer>Its OpenTTD, not Ridge Racer :O
14:15<Yexo>Chruker: road vehicles won't overtake if there are more then 2 vehicles on a tile (the one that overtakes and the one that is overtaken)
14:16<Yexo>and neither if there are any other vehicles on the next tile
14:17<Terkhen>Alberth: how "final" is the found town window code?
14:18<@Belugas>heeek... i was on my way to pick another coffee mug jsut to realize mine was STILL 3/4 full...
14:18<@Belugas>would that mean i've got too much?
14:18<@Belugas>can such a thing ever exist???
14:20<Alberth>you must be doing too many other things than drinking coffee
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14:21<@Belugas>judging by the numbers of windows on my screens, i guess you're right, mister Alberth
14:21<Alberth>Terkhen: what 'found town' code are you refering to?
14:22<PeterT>wow, DownThemAll! is great for grfs, 32bb graphics
14:22<PeterT>its almost like they made it specifically for OpenTTD
14:22<Terkhen>the window that lets you create new towns in the scenario editor
14:23<@Belugas>PeterT, for who else would you think they made it??
14:24<PeterT>Belugas: if you didn't catch the obvious, i was talking about DownThemAll!
14:24<Alberth>Belugas: that would be a bad indication for my desktops at work, all my desktops are normally filled to the top with windows.
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14:25<@Belugas>oh.... sorry...
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14:28<@Belugas>Alberth, i don't get it.
14:28<PeterT>random crashes by windows explorer = NOT COOL!
14:28<PeterT>grr microsoft
14:28<@Belugas>Alberth: i tough you were a teacher. so how is it relevant?
14:29<Alberth>Belugas: nope, I program software usually
14:30<Alberth>Belugas: some times I do have students doing an assignment or a course who I speak with every week and reading/correcting of their reports.
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14:31<@Belugas>ho... so that what got me confused... ok :)
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14:32<Alberth>Terkhen: I got a bit worried, the code doesn't look like it's mine, yet the revision that changed the header was done by me :p Otherwise, the widget array is gone, so if the window works, I don't think it will change much until we have converted all the other windows that still have widget arrays.
14:33<Terkhen>okay, thank you :)
14:34<@Belugas>i think i know why Terkhen wonders ^_^
14:34<@Belugas>go boy, go!
14:34<Terkhen>:)
14:36<Alberth>PeterT: just getting angry doesn't hurt MS, you must make a statement. Return the OS to its manufacturer, demand your money back, run one of the free alternatives.
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14:45<@Belugas>truth hurts ^_^
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14:46<PeterT>@seen PeterT
14:46<@DorpsGek>PeterT: PeterT was last seen in #openttd 18 minutes and 7 seconds ago: <PeterT> grr microsoft
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14:56<Terkhen>Alberth: since I'll need an edit box in the found towns window for this feature, I'll need to change the QueryStringBaseWindow to make it work with nested widgets... once I get these changes working and tested, I suppose it is better that I submit them as a separate patch?
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15:01<Yexo>Terkhen: prepare for a lot of work
15:01<Alberth>Terkhen: that seems like a good idea yes, generally it is better to have more smaller patches.
15:02<PeteT>what were we talking about?
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15:02<Yexo>code
15:03<PeterT>patches?
15:03<Alberth>or you being angry with that company in redmond.
15:04<Terkhen>okay, I'll try to keep it as simple as possible... I have been checking the code and I know that the needed changes don't stop at the QueryStringBaseWindow related functions
15:05<PeterT>yexo, back to our conversation a couple days ago
15:05<PeterT>what kind of patches that are out now have a very good chance of making it into trunk?
15:05<Terkhen>I don't know how deep I'll have to reach, but I'll assume that it is a lot :D
15:05<Yexo>Terkhen: I spend about 2 hours trying and then gave up on the QueryStringBaseWindow
15:05<Alberth>I have not looked into it at all
15:06<Yexo>PeterT: you want the same answers again?
15:06<Yexo>bug fixes, very usefull features, but only thsoe that are cleanly coded
15:06<PeterT>i dont remember you answering me?
15:07<PeterT>are you looking at any patches specifically
15:07<Yexo>currently, no
15:07<frosch123>default answer: currently we are working on the feature to only allow ai companies to keep the number of bugs low, which are mainly caused by human players
15:08<PeterT>oh
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15:09<Terkhen>mmm... okay, I'll take it as a long project then :)
15:10<Yexo>PeterT: http://thegrebs.com/irc/openttd/2009/08/31#18:42 <- see, I did answer your (approximatly the same) question
15:10<PeterT>oh sorry yexo
15:10<PeterT>are you just trying to prove me wrong, or to prove a point?
15:11<Yexo><PeterT> i dont remember you answering me? <- answering to that, and showing you it's useless to ask the same questinos over and over again
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15:12<PeterT>does the word "thijs" mean something, or is it a last name?
15:12<Yexo>it's my first name
15:13<PeterT>oh
15:13<PeterT>well, i was referring to the developer list at the wiki
15:13<PeterT>blathijs and matthijs
15:13<PeterT>sorry for the highlight
15:14<Yexo>Matthijs and Thijs are both dutch names
15:15<PeterT>oh
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15:15<frosch123>PeterT: are you a friend of benny?
15:15<PeterT>no, was just looking at the developer list, and saw the similarity
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15:16<frosch123>just your "oh" reads like "what?"
15:16*Yexo reads it as "ok"
15:17*PeterT meant it as "ok", but didn't want to be one of those people that writes "ohk"
15:18<frosch123>what stops you from reading "what?" as "ok" ?
15:18<PeterT>what? means "what?"
15:18<PeterT>ok means "Ok"
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15:27*planetmaker has the impression to be in a modern-kind of comedy theatre
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15:28<planetmaker>:-D
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15:29<Xaroth>planetmaker: like a jojo...
15:29<Prof_Frink>Benny's got a bit of a reputation around here.
15:29<planetmaker>benny learnt.
15:29<frosch123>sure, but mind that we are only the prolog before our star shows up shortly before 1700 montreal time
15:30<planetmaker>hehe. he was just banned in coop :-P
15:30<Yexo>thanks for the airport testing planetmaker :)
15:30<planetmaker>oh, you're welcome
15:32<PeterT>thanks planetmaker
15:32<PeterT>for no reason, of course
15:32<planetmaker>?
15:33*KenjiE20 thanks pm for being pm :P
15:33<planetmaker>:-D
15:34<planetmaker>actually... that's easy for me. Being myself is not difficult :-)
15:35<Xaroth>would be more fun if it was hard for you to be you...
15:36<Ammler>maybe we should try to be pm.
15:36-!-Xaroth is now known as planetcreater
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15:36<planetcreater>... feels wrong
15:37-!-planetcreater is now known as Xaroth
15:37<planetmaker>you could try. But all of you will fail
15:37-!-Ammler is now known as moonmaker
15:37<planetmaker>:-D
15:37<@Rubidium>hmm, post mortem?
15:37<planetmaker>hm... you're in my orbit, moonmaker ?
15:37-!-KenjiE20 is now known as satellitemaker
15:38<Prof_Frink>Moonmaker? Wasn't that set in Kingsdown?
15:38*Chrill is not known as anything else than Chrill
15:38<Prof_Frink>Wait, that was Moonraker.
15:38<Chrill>a movie
15:38<Chrill>007
15:38<Chrill>xD
15:38<Chrill>close but no cigare
15:38<Chrill>-e
15:38<satellitemaker>lol
15:38<Prof_Frink>Chrill: Don't be silly. The film wasn't set in Kingsdown.
15:39<Chrill>moonraker was set in my basement
15:39<welshdragon>Prof_Frink: stop raking Chrill's moon :P
15:39<Chrill>I like mooning
15:39<satellitemaker>look what you've started now ammler :P
15:39<moonmaker>:-)
15:39<moonmaker>call me "mm"
15:40<satellitemaker>lol
15:40<Prof_Frink>Chrill: No, it really was set on the cliffs above Kingsdown, East Kent.
15:40<@Rubidium>so moonmaker > planetmaker?
15:41<Prof_Frink>Where's sunmaker?
15:41-!-Xaroth is now known as sunmaker
15:41<sunmaker>right here
15:41<moonmaker>what is first, moon or planet?
15:41<sunmaker>planet
15:41<PeterT>planet
15:41<sunmaker>sun planet moon
15:41<Prof_Frink>planet + planetoid --> planet + moon.
15:41<PeterT>what is the moon going to orbit around? emtpy space?
15:42<moonmaker>PeterT: yes, until a rock splits from and become a planet.
15:42-!-planetmaker is now known as supernova
15:42<satellitemaker>:D
15:42<sunmaker>uh oh, he went supernova
15:42<PeterT>whois moonmaker?
15:42<supernova>boooom!
15:42<sunmaker>RUN AWAY!
15:43<Chrill>..this is nuts
15:43*satellitemaker emptyspace
15:43<satellitemaker>whoops
15:43<supernova>and thus all starts over...
15:43-!-satellitemaker is now known as emptyspace
15:43-!-supernova is now known as planetmaker
15:43<Prof_Frink>suprnova.org?
15:43-!-emptyspace is now known as KenjiE20
15:44-!-sunmaker is now known as Xaroth
15:44*Prof_Frink is now known as Quasar_3C273
15:44<moonmaker>:'-(
15:47<planetmaker>rebirth is qute certain, moonmaker :)
15:47<Terkhen>It seems like I also need to alter all focus related code to work with nested widgets too, I'll start with that
15:47<Terkhen>this is getting bigger and bigger :D
15:48-!-_ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd
15:48<Terkhen>no, only parts of it
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15:54<Trollkien>=quin
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16:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17413 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: assert when trying to build an invalid industry type it did
16:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17414 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_industrytype.cpp industry_cmd.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Codechange: only send/read the number of bits that can be actually useful when building industries
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>it did what?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>or was that yoda speaking? :P
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16:31<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17415 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Change: make sure aircraft don't move while turning as long as they are on the ground. This prevents a lot of unnecesary turns when leaving terminals
16:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17416 /trunk/src/ (os/windows/crashlog_win.cpp rev.cpp.in rev.h): -Codechange: move the build date/time 'determination' to rev.cpp as that's the file most likely to be regularly recompiled
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16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17417 /branches/0.7/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Incomplete check on validity of industry type when building industries (r17413)
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Guard against Squirrel stack overflows (r17403)
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] During every save a few slots on the Squirrel stack were leaked (r17402)
16:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Several AITile::* functions did not check whether their parameters were valid (r17378)
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17:24<@Belugas>bye bye
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17:47<Terkhen>@ports
17:47<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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18:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r17418 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#3144]: Signs list window uses nested widget tree (mostly by Nickman).
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18:06<Nickman87>yay, my patch is accepted :D
18:07<Nickman87>Now I can try and update the sign filter patch ;)
18:07<Alberth>I changed it a bit :)
18:07*Zuu foresees an update to his search in sign list window patch
18:07<Terkhen>great, I love that patch :P
18:07<Nickman87>ah?
18:07<TrueBrain>so it isn't Nickman87's patch after al :p
18:07<Nickman87>atleast part of it :(
18:07<Nickman87>:D
18:07<TrueBrain>:p
18:07<Zuu>Nickman87: If you want to give a go on it you are welcome :-)
18:08<Zuu>If you even get things well for inclusion I'll give you a virtual hug :-p
18:08<Nickman87>I'll try ;)
18:08*Terkhen will give hugs too
18:08<Nickman87>:D
18:09<Nickman87>That patch has a high rating it seems :D
18:09<Nickman87>many people like it :)
18:10<Zuu>On my wishlist for that patch is a drop-down list to select "any company", "copany 1", "copany 2", ...
18:10<Zuu>But I have not been coding on the patch for long time now.
18:10<TrueBrain>lazy ass
18:10<Zuu>:-p
18:10<Zuu>NoAI keeps me bussy
18:11<Zuu>Im the only one who has 3 AIs on BaNaNaS to maintain. But yea that is my fault. :-)
18:11<Terkhen>that's a good idea
18:11<TrueBrain>maybe you should consider making one good one :p
18:12<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
18:12<TrueBrain>BOFH at work :)
18:12<Alberth>good night all
18:12<TrueBrain>night Alberth
18:12<TrueBrain>sleep well
18:12<Zuu>night Alberth
18:12<Terkhen>good night Alberth
18:12<TrueBrain>dream tight
18:12<TrueBrain>don't let the bedbugs bite you
18:13<Nickman87>night ;)
18:13<Zuu>TrueBrain: Nah, my attempts to improve PAXLink gets to the point of building the management part up from scratch and almost resulting in another AI..
18:14<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
18:14<Nickman87>When I get the currect patch working OK on the current trunk, I'll try and look at that company filter to Zuu ;)
18:14<Alberth>TrueBrain: I have asked the monster under my bed to take care of that problem :)
18:14<TrueBrain>Alberth: good ;)
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18:14<Zuu>Nickman87: Nice
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18:21<Eddi|zuHause>so... who was going to implement this again? http://www.spassfieber.de/bilder/entgleister-zug.html
18:22<frosch123>you mean two tracks on one tile?
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>;)
18:23<Zuu>Now that was a new proposal :-)
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>new? we discussed that already years ago
18:25<Zuu>That would require significantly longer wagons or as frosh123 said two rails on the same tile.
18:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17419 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp:
18:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix (r-old, r16378): the index of orders loaded from old savegames was
18:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: owerwritten with an unitialized value, causing asserts. The issue has present
18:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: for a long time but only since the new pool system did it trigger a (correct)
18:25<CIA-1>OpenTTD: assert
18:26<Zuu>good night guys
18:26<TrueBrain>night Zuu
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18:42<Terkhen>good night!
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18:58<Nickman87>is it good coding style to for example call "this->vscroll.GetPosition()" once, and store the value in a variable if you need it two or more times?
19:00<Yexo>that depends, if you do the same calculations with it every time, store the result of the calculation in avariable
19:00<Yexo>if not, then whatever you prefer
19:00<Nickman87>The value is used for a check first, and then again for a calculation for example
19:01<Nickman87>we don't consider the function calls as overhead if it is just for 3, 4, 5 times?
19:01<Yexo>the function will most likely be inlined anyway, so there is no overhead
19:01<Yexo>and that depends on the complexicty of the funciton of course, but GetPosition() is jsut return internal_var;
19:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17420 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp graph_gui.cpp misc_gui.cpp newgrf.cpp): -Codechange: replace assert() by assert_compile() where possible
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19:10<Nickman87>yeah, it is indeed probably inline so it won't matter :)
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19:11<Nickman87>debug mode in VS for OTTD is slow...
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19:14<Eddi|zuHause>but the compilation is faster ;)
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19:16<Nickman87>:D
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19:33<Eddi|zuHause>neuer tag, neues disconnect
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19:36<Nickman87>Hmmm, having problem with the On Screen Keyboard widget system :(
19:36<nicfer>I've found a bug: in a game I have two oil rigs together one to the other in such way that one of them blocks the loading bay of the other
19:37<Yexo>nicfer: please open a bug report at bugs.openttd.org
19:37<Yexo>Nickman87: what is the problem?
19:38<Nickman87>I get an access voilation, but don't know what I should be missing that is causing it
19:39<Nickman87>When I click in my Text box, It should open the window, but I gat an access violation
19:39<Yexo>are you using nested widgets?
19:39<Nickman87>Yes
19:39<Nickman87>do you maybe know of an example with the nested widget system AND an edit box?
19:39<Yexo>the QueryBaseStringWindow (or something like that) class doesn't support nested widgets yet
19:40<Nickman87>ah, it doesn't completely? I tried making a different constructor
19:40<Nickman87>but I guess it is not enough...
19:40<Nickman87>so that is my problem :)
19:40<Yexo>not completely -> not at all
19:40<Yexo>Terkhen is working on that
19:40<Yexo>I gave it a try but failed
19:40<Nickman87>:D
19:41<Nickman87>any idea if it will take a long time? :)
19:41<Yexo>don't ask me, I'm not working on it
19:42<Nickman87>:D
19:42<Nickman87>I guess I'll just have to wait it out :)
19:44<Nickman87>I could give it a try myself but... sounds like alot of work?
19:45<Yexo>I've tried for 2 hours and failed, it may take someone else less time or more, no idea
19:45<Nickman87>I have no idea what would be involved in it so... :)
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19:53<nicfer>task submitted
19:53<nicfer>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3175
19:53<nicfer>anyways, the oil rig gets serviced when I send ships to the other station
19:55<nicfer>oh, and wait some years (near 2070) and you'll be unable to create more oil ships
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20:01<nicfer>and the inflation there is pretty pretty high
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20:29<PeterT>hello?
20:29<PeterT>is there a reason why passworded companies aren't passworded at the entry screen, but they are in-game?
20:30<PeterT>(IS2.0-beta3)
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21:12<nicfer>little suggestion, would be worth adding a setting for choosing amount of primary and secondary industries separately?
21:16<PeterT>when would that be used?
21:16<PeterT>nicfer
21:17<nicfer>what?
21:17<PeterT><PeterT> when would that be used?
21:18<PeterT>if you know C++ coding, write a patch for it. since your here asking, you probably dont.
21:18<PeterT>try asking tommorow when more developers are up
21:18<PeterT>OpenTTD channels run on european time
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21:35<@Belugas>unfortunately, yes, as most of the guys
21:35<@Belugas>bloody european time :(
21:36<@Belugas>nicfer, as you already know, writing a grf can do exactly that
21:36<@Belugas>you don't really need a setting for that
21:36<nicfer>oh
21:36<@Belugas>we'll just be adding a double control and then we'll battle over the grf for the control of the creations...
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21:37<@Belugas>fun time under the sun and the moon
21:37<nicfer>and for example, can a newgrf modify another newgrf's setting?
21:37<DaleStan>Sometimes.
21:38<@Belugas>if you are asking if a grf can modify a industry setting that has been already modified by another grf, that is not possible, due to the way the industries are loaded and installed in the system
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21:43<nicfer>oh, because I was using FIRS
21:45<nicfer>so, I'll have to choice, FIRS or custom number of secondary industries
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23:41<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 05 00:00:37 2009