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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-07

---Logopened Mon Sep 07 00:00:36 2009
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03:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17439 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r17436): you weren't paid for cargo delivered to houses and headquarters anymore
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03:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17440 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix [FS#3179] (r17375): long scrollbars would scroll when that was not intended. They would also not properly mark the window dirty.
04:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17441 /trunk/src/waypoint_gui.cpp: -Fix (r16900): close the vehicle list of the vehicle type that visits the waypoint instead of for all vehicle types
04:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17442 /trunk/src/depot.cpp: -Fix [FS#3180]: destruction of depots didn't remove any vehicle lists related to the depot, causing windows pointing to deleted depots and (thus) crashes
04:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17443 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r17442): clear the depot tile after removing the depot in all cases instead of only for ships; makes removing road/rail depots not crash :)
04:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17444 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3173]: when building roads isn't allowed for town, then don't build the initial piece either
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04:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17445 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17318): force resort after changing sort type in the industry list window
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04:57<Terkhen>good morning
04:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17446 /trunk/src/ (53 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: rename BUILD with BUY for strings that are about building (in the future buying) vehicles.
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05:00<Eddi|zuHause>oooh... someone talking about future ;=
05:01<planetmaker> <-- welcome to that FS task :-P
05:06<@Rubidium>well, that patch horribly fails to apply :)
05:07<planetmaker>It's horribly old, I guess
05:07<planetmaker>but it can be closed now, I'd bet
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05:07<@Rubidium>I bet it can't
05:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17447 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: rename a local variable so it doesn't collide with the name of a global function
05:08<Eddi|zuHause>i thought coding style should prevent such things
05:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17448 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change [FS#2997]: buy vehicles instead of building them; makes it consistent with selling. Based on a patch by planetmaker
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05:09<planetmaker>He. I see the difference :-)
05:10<Zuu>The OpenTTD coding style is not that very extreeme with prefixes etc. to distungish members from local valiables etc. as far as I remember.
05:10<Eddi|zuHause>now update all translations as well ;)
05:11<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: yes, but functions=starts with capital letter, variable=starts with lower case letter i thought
05:11<Zuu>hmm, though it was two variables, but yea now when I read it better I see it was function vs variable.
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>and global variables must start with a _
05:12<@Rubidium>it doesn't collide yet, but it would with a future patch
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>again with the future..
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium the oracle.
05:24<Zuu>A future patch may also remove the posibilities of collisions by reducing the line count to zero. :-p
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06:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17449 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix (r17436): MSVC compile warning about comparing signed and unsigned values
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06:07<@SmatZ> I wouldn't believe mouldy bread can be so colourful
06:08<Noldo>oh you too have gotten into the fine art of mold growing
06:08<Zuu>Thanksfully I have not brough my lunch yet.. :-)
06:09<Noldo>and specimen is even nicely contained in a plastic bag, not your first project?
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06:23<Zuu>I had some fruit contained in a bag for 6 weeks, it was even a bit soil at the bottom of the bag when I opened it. :-)
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06:28<Vikthor>Are you aware that production of biological weapons is internationally banned ? :p
06:29<@Rubidium>yes, I'm aware that I'm internationally banned
06:29<Zuu>To make it clear for whoever scanns this channel, it was not by any evil purpose. I was just lazy. :-p
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06:34<Eddi|zuHause>Vikthor: the amount of chemicals produced in germany can easily be used for warfare, even though they are "civilian" products
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. pesticides and insecticides
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07:08<Yexo> (same spec as industry tile / industry): Is it possible to display a halftile foundation for the circled sprite or do I have to include foundations in the grf for that?
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07:09<@Rubidium>half tile wouldn't do the trick
07:09<@Rubidium>the runway is 'shown' over way more than half the tile
07:10<@Rubidium>and half tile slopes would imply that you can build rail on the lower part
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07:10<Yexo>Rubidium: not really, it's the circled tile, that one has only a tin part runway
07:10<Yexo>the tile where the north corner is lowered
07:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17450 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: refactor the windows crash logger so parts of it can be reused by other crash logger implementations
07:11<Yexo><@Rubidium> and half tile slopes would imply that you can build rail on the lower part <- that is a drawback, but still it looks better then a complete foundation
07:11<@Rubidium>hmm, the sprites 'bleed' into the next tile or so?
07:11<Yexo>no, that tile has no ground sprite but only a building sprite with a z-offset of 8 pixels
07:12<Yexo>and normal ground sprites are drawn below every tile, so you can have easily have snow/desert by leaving part of the sprite blank
07:14<@Rubidium>it'd probably be possible, but I reckon the NewGRF needs to give some information about that; it can't figure out on its own whether it's a half or full tile
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07:16<Yexo> this is with full foundations (other rotation, same idea)
07:18<@SmatZ>half foundation would be nice, and even nicer if the second half could be used for rail ;) but that's sure too much
07:19<@Rubidium>too much? That's probably *way* too much
07:19*Rubidium points at signals and station indices
07:20<@SmatZ>yeah, I just wanted to have some uneducated idea :-p
07:20<Yexo>there are still 8 bits free, so in theory it's possible :)
07:21<@SmatZ>no place to store owner :(
07:22<@SmatZ>so it would be need to be the same
07:22<Yexo>that restriction is already in place for 2 diagonal rails on the same tile
07:23<@Rubidium>anyhow, railtype and signals ought to be in the same place or stuff gets unnecessarily slowed down
07:23<@SmatZ>even railtype has to be the same
07:23<@SmatZ>yeah, sure it wasn't practical idea
07:24<@SmatZ>1 bit "track is here", 4 bits track type, 1 bit signal is/isn't, 1 bit signal variant... 3 bits signal type, 1 bit signal status, 1 bit track reservation...
07:24<@SmatZ>or so
07:24<@SmatZ>@calc 1 + 4 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 1
07:24<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 12
07:24<@SmatZ>at least :)
07:25<Yexo>so even in theory not possible
07:25<@SmatZ>actually, more likely 13
07:25<@SmatZ>yeah :(
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>how far are we away from "airport bridges"?
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>(like in Leipzig/Halle)
07:28<Yexo>airport over road?
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>or rail
07:28<Yexo>that will only be possible with tunnels
07:29<@SmatZ>interesting idea
07:30<KenjiE20>hah Heathrow would be the interesting one :P
07:30<Yexo>in theory it's possible with tunnels (so real bridges), but that would mean modifing the bridge code because airport tiles could be end tiles
07:31<Yexo>KenjiE20: give me a tile layout and movement scheme and maybe I'll code it :)
07:31<Yexo>that holds for other interesting airports too :)
07:31<KenjiE20>with a central hole for road traffic?
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the bridge heads should be airport tiles
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>Hexan: i've had that situation for real ;)
07:33<Hexan>looks nice :)
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07:45<Ammler>Yexo: do you care about compile warnings for airport branch?
07:46<Yexo>Ammler: yes, but not about all those missing 0's in some header file (at least not currently)
07:46<Ammler> /home/marcel/bin/ottd/airports.hg/src/airport_movement.h:33: warning: missing initializer for member ‘AirportMovingData::z’ <-- those?
07:47<Yexo>(unless you want to provide a patch for that, then I'm interested :P)
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07:47<Ammler> /home/marcel/bin/ottd/airports.hg/src/newgrf_airport.cpp: In function ‘uint32 AirportTileGetVariable(const ResolverObject*, byte, byte, bool*)’:
07:50<Yexo>Ammler: yes? what was the actual warning?
07:53<Ammler> <-- there is more
07:53<Ammler>(row 533)
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07:56<Yexo>Ammler: I forgot to push some changesets, so that line number is way off
07:56<Ammler>ok :-)
07:59<dasy2k1>anyone want a multiplayer where you cant get millions immidiatly by using aircraft?
08:00<dihedral>dasy2k1, most people here dont play that much
08:00<Zuu>dasy2k1: That is easy, just set maximum number of aircrafts to zero.
08:00<dihedral>and most people here would start their own server (and are capable of that) if they wanted something new
08:00<dihedral>and if you want a server, just start one, but dont ask people here to join it!
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08:01<dasy2k1>that was the firts and only plug its getting
08:03<Ammler>dasy2k1: how would you do it?
08:03<Zuu>dasy2k1: Or you create a GRF that makes airplanes dam expansive.
08:03<Ammler>Yexo: is the grf from your userspace the most current one?
08:04<Yexo>Ammler: no
08:04<Yexo>I'll upload a newer one shortly
08:04<Ammler>it is awesome, but has some glitchy movements
08:04<Yexo>I know, fixed a few
08:04<dasy2k1>i think cheap slow aircraft are better
08:04<dasy2k1>with very high running costs and low capacity
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08:06<Ammler>Yexo: rotating isn't supported yet?
08:06<Ammler>(from the gui)
08:06<Yexo>Ammler: it is, try the little buttons under the list
08:06<Yexo>but it needs to be more visible, this is just a quick hack to enable it from the gui
08:07<Ammler>they are greyed out here.
08:07<Yexo>there are no rotations for the default airports
08:08<Ammler> /home/marcel/bin/ottd/airports.hg/src/newgrf_airport.h:65: static const AirportSpec* AirportSpec::Get(byte): Assertion `airport_type < (sizeof(AirportSpec::array) / sizeof(AirportSpec::array[0]))' failed.
08:08<Ammler>don't ask, how to reproduce :P
08:08<Ammler>just tried to click those buttons :-)
08:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17451 /trunk/src/depot.cpp: -Fix (r17442): loading of TTO/TTD savegames failed
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08:10<Yexo>but you can't click those buttons, they're greyed out
08:10<@Rubidium>he probably clicked somewhere near the buttons and not on them
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>errr... in ... why is one "static const" and the other "extern const"?
08:11<Yexo>if he didn't click on the button no OnClick should be fired to the window
08:11<Yexo>at least not for that widget
08:12<@Rubidium>crash log! :)
08:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17452 /trunk/src/os/windows/crashlog_win.cpp: -Fix (r17450): emergency savegames weren't rejected by the crash logger anymore
08:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17453 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: crash logger for all Unixy OSes; should work for all, but I don't have all exotic machines so it might break compilation on the more exotic configurations
08:15<Ammler>Yexo: I can for the test airport, but that one seems not to have a statemachine or how you call that.
08:15<Ammler>but miniairport doesn't allow me.
08:16<Yexo>oh, then you have a real old version
08:16*Yexo has 4 rotations now for the mini airport
08:16<Ammler>downloaded from your userspace
08:16<Yexo>I'm currently in a fight with nforenum
08:16<Yexo>after that I'll upload a new version
08:17*planetmaker gives Yexo a few escape sequences in order to allow a safe retreat - just in case of doubt. And a few back slashes for a good forward defence.
08:18<Yexo>bah, just looking at the wrong file
08:18<Ammler>he, it is funny, sometimes, the plan go nicely to the middle of the runaway.
08:19<Ammler>sometimes, they accelerate way too far left of it and correct right before takeoff
08:20*planetmaker guesses that Ammler gets paid by the number of IRC lines ;-)
08:20<planetmaker>statistics might even support that view :-P
08:20*planetmaker goes into hiding again.
08:20<Ammler>yeah, that is why I produce my spelling errors, I could write right right away :-P
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08:21<@Rubidium>no gram are miss steaks?
08:21<planetmaker>lol :-P
08:22<planetmaker>sounds like nice ones ;-)
08:23<Yexo>Ammler: grf updated
08:25<Ammler>hmm, a little glitch
08:25<Ammler>nothing to do with airports :-)
08:26<Ammler>if you click on a station, then you add a grf, the list is updated, but you aren't able to click them.
08:27<Zuu>Yexo: Seams you have got cought at the forums now. You should have hidden in #openttd.noai where all secrent development seams to take place. ;-)
08:29<Yexo>the reason I haven't posted at the forums yet is not to keep it secret, but to avoid stupid questions from users who have no idea what they are talking about
08:29<Sacro>yet you post it here
08:29<Sacro>here there's me :p
08:30<planetmaker>Sacro, there's stupid and there's stupid ;-)
08:30<planetmaker>and then there's ignorant.
08:30<Sacro>and then there's me
08:30<Zuu>And then there is forumers
08:30<Sacro>and Bjarni
08:30<Sacro>hang on...
08:30<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
08:30<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 6 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Bjarni> as long as it doesn't happen every 5th minute
08:31<planetmaker>long long time ago :-S
08:31<Sacro>in a galaxy far far away
08:32<dihedral>that sounds like Bjarni's home :-D
08:37<Ammler>yexo, grf seems perfect now.
08:38<Ammler>and not able to assert it again.
08:38<Yexo>thanks Ammler :)
08:38<Yexo>and I still haveno idea how that assert can be triggered
08:38<Ammler>currently, foundations are very glitchy
08:39<Ammler>and I need flat map for the whole airport, also if the "other half" isn't built.
08:39<Yexo>I think maybe the ground tiles should be 1 pixels bigger
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08:39<Yexo><Ammler> and I need flat map for the whole airport, also if the "other half" isn't built. <- I haven't implemented the slope callback yet
08:40<Yexo>on snow there are some very visible lines between the tiles
08:40<Ammler>Yexo: oh, this is just nfo?
08:41<planetmaker>I guess pika's sprites, OpenGFX sprites and modifications of those.
08:41<Yexo>Ammler: partly, I have to implement support for that callback first in openttd
08:41<Yexo>planetmaker: no, skidd13's sprites
08:42<@Rubidium>(i.e. the ones richk also used)
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08:42<DJGummikuh>I just found the "content" command in my openttd 0.7.2 server
08:42<planetmaker>they're not TTD sprites, but owned by skidd13? That's good :-)
08:43<Ammler>I do hide (transparent) airport hangar with industries, not stations?
08:43<DJGummikuh>now I downloaded "The World" height map with content select 266 ; content download
08:43<DJGummikuh>now how the heck do I use that heightmap and where has it been downloaded to?
08:43<Yexo>Ammler: yes, that's a bug
08:43<Yexo>I reuse the industry code for drawing, haven't generalised it so it uses the correct bit
08:43<Ammler>oh, again same assert
08:44<Ammler>I guess, it is with bigger planes.
08:44<Yexo>as far as I know there is no difference between small and big planes
08:44<Yexo>but of course that's possible, which plane did you use?
08:45<Ammler>oh, and thanks for making the grfs top of the list ;-)
08:45<Yexo>I'll change that before making a forum topic, but for now it eases testing
08:46<Ammler>Yate Haugen
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08:46<@Rubidium>DJGummikuh: you might need to restart OpenTTD before it finds them
08:46<Ammler>it has also the glitch on take off, still.
08:47<DJGummikuh>Rubidium: no I don't even know where to look for it on the system
08:47<@Rubidium>read the readme
08:47<DJGummikuh>I'm on the server with a second console and I can't find any file in any writable folder for that user
08:48<DJGummikuh>ah wait a second
08:48<DJGummikuh>ah lol... my fault :( had a typo in my search string..Wrold >.<
08:48<Yexo>Ammler: what glitch?
08:49<Yexo>ah, I see
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08:51<DJGummikuh>haha wiki article about heightmaps has a chapter "Using heightmaps" which does unfortunately not tell me how to actually use it :(
08:51<Ammler>Yexo: just silly, that the glitch is very randomly.
08:51<Yexo>I'm not sure whether it's possible to use a heighmap on a dedicated server
08:52<Yexo>you can always create a scenario out of it on your computer and use that on the server
08:54<Ammler>plane have a nice waiting action
08:57<Ammler>waiting code seems not roated right.
08:57<Yexo>it is, it's just ugly (in all directions)
08:58<Ammler>no, in the rotated airport
08:58<Ammler>it does swap all the time, while waiting.
09:00<dihedral>that in fact would make more sense :-)
09:01<dihedral>scn rotation list would be a nice idea :-P
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>the airports are unrealistic anyway. a holding pattern does not really circle around the airport
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>but rather along the extension of the runway
09:02<dihedral>holding patterns mostly circle over towns, in case the planes run out of fuel
09:04<planetmaker>yeah "Lucky that they didn't have fuel anymore when they crashed. Or it would even have given a big explosion" :-P
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>a plane is approaching the runway, is told to enter a waiting pattern. it then makes a 180° turn (typically right turn, 1 minute), flies straight for one minute, makes another 180° turn (1 minute) and flies straight towards the runway again (1 minute)
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>holding pattern lasts 4 minutes
09:05<planetmaker>you got reference for that, Eddi|zuHause ?
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>i think celestar said that
09:06<planetmaker>what does he know? ;-)
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, during this holding pattern, the plane does not get anywhere near the airport
09:08<planetmaker>define near in terms of a minimum speed of >100km/h
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>(what would it do there anyway? it would only interfere with starting and landing airplanes)
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09:09<planetmaker>well. There are well-defined routes in the control zones for each air port.
09:10<planetmaker>Also after take-off you'll have to go to the announced exit point and only then call the tower that you're leaving their control zone
09:10<@Rubidium>in case of near miss at least some of the paint must've been scraped of at least one of the planes
09:11<Noldo>planetmaker: depends on the clearance you get when taking off
09:11<planetmaker>Noldo, but show me any airport of more than hobby-size where it's different.
09:11<planetmaker>at least in middle Europe
09:12<planetmaker>Otherwise there'd not be much point of a control zone anyway, if the orders are "go as you like" ;-)
09:13<Noldo>it's not 'go as you like' but it can be 'straight to the route'
09:13<planetmaker>Tower needs at least know whom it needs to take care of.
09:13<planetmaker>Noldo, but routes always go via one of the exit points ;-)
09:13<planetmaker>That's part of the planning the pilots need doing prior to flight. And when they query for permission to taxi
09:14<planetmaker>to the runway.
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, a friend of mine lives in Bad Lauchstädt, which is around 40km away from the airport, and he frequently has planes circling around his house
09:15<Noldo>there are queing points like that quite often
09:15<Noldo>with defined patterns and all
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>and that is pretty much exactly the extension of the runway
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09:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17454 /trunk/ ( Makefile.msvc -Codechange: some alignment in Makefile*.in
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09:35<@Rubidium>poor Makefile.msvc
09:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r17455 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use sprite names instead of magic numbers in table/clear_land.h and change some names
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09:42<@SmatZ>oh :(
09:46<dihedral>oh? what oh?
09:47<@SmatZ>Makefile.msvc isn't Makefile*.in
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09:57<@SmatZ>what happened to the computer
09:57<@SmatZ>its LAN speed is ~100kB/s
09:57<@SmatZ>happened suddenly...
09:57<@SmatZ>hello z-MaTRiX
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>broken cable?
09:57<@Rubidium>ze rootkit?
09:58<planetmaker>ze trojan sending spam ;-)
09:58<z-MaTRiX>donthave time playing
09:58<planetmaker>I've one trojan here which I could give you, if you need a test target :-P
09:58<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: possibly... but nobody could touch that :-/
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time when i had Windows ME, it was so infected that it caused collisions constantly
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10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17456 /branches/0.7/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: When building roads is not allowed for town, then do not build the initial piece either [FS#3173] (r17444)
10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Destruction of depots did not remove any vehicle lists related to the depot, causing windows pointing to deleted depots and (thus) crashes [FS#3180] (r17442)
10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: Economy recession would never end when economy is set to Steady while in recession (r17426)
10:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: - Fix: The index of orders loaded from old savegames was owerwritten with an unitialized value (r17419)
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10:13<fjb>Is it possible to find out if a game is currentliy in the state of economy recession?
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10:18<DJGummikuh>is it possible to create a screenshot from a dedicated server's console?
10:18<+glx>did you try "screenshot" in the console?
10:20<@Rubidium>probably won't with with the null blitter
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10:26<DJGummikuh>glx: yes
10:26<DJGummikuh>I did "screenshot big"
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10:32<DJGummikuh>but it immediately comes back and produces no output (and no file)
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10:32<@Rubidium>16:20 <@Rubidium> probably won't with with the null blitter
10:32<DJGummikuh>oh overread that
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10:42<dihedral><DJGummikuh> is it possible to create a screenshot from a dedicated server's console? <- i read it as "a screenshot of the console" not "a screenshot of the map" :-P
10:43<dihedral>under windows press "prt sc" :-P
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11:33<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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12:52<Zuu>Holy, what a spark that just came when I was to turn on the monitor..
12:52<Zuu>Not a small one either.
12:54<Zuu>Didn't feel anything though.. and the monitor seams to work okay. At least I do see my IRC window. :-)
12:57<frosch123>you should fix the soldering joints
12:58<Zuu>Of my monitor?
12:59<Zuu>I think my kitchen needs a discharger to discharge people when you leave it.
13:00<Zuu>Or better have the electricity fixed.
13:00<Zuu>(I don't have my computer in the kitchen, but just came from there)
13:01<Hexan>max_no_competitors = 2 <-- what does that setting mean?
13:01<Hexan>max 2 ai players?
13:02<frosch123>no = "number"
13:03<Hexan>and competitors is ai players right?
13:03<frosch123>likely, else it would distinguish clients and companies
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13:11<Benny>Does anyone on here have the 0.1 version of Pikka's "General av8ion"?
13:11<Zuu>Do you need it for a savegame?
13:11<frosch123>it's on bananas
13:12<Zuu>frosch123: Including 0.1?
13:12<frosch123>(iirc) :p
13:12<Zuu>If it is on bananas OpenTTD will be allowed to download it even if it is not the latest in case it is needed to load a savegame.
13:12<Ammler>benny wouldn't ask then ;-)
13:13<Zuu>Or in other words if you have the hash id for it.
13:13<Benny>Bananas version id only the latest.
13:13<frosch123>Benny: load the savegame, go to newgrf window, click online content, download it, reload the savegame
13:13<Benny>No savegame involved here. Just trying to join Tyconeez server.
13:14<frosch123>well, then click the online content in the server lobby
13:14<Ammler>0.1 _is_ on
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13:14<Ammler>Benny: which server?
13:14<Benny>Hmm.. May be a weird version that is loaded on the server then.
13:15<Benny> Stable
13:15<Zuu>Ammler: Its a 0.7.2
13:16<frosch123>for me it is a valid 0.1, and i have it from bananas
13:17<Zuu>According to it usses both general av8ion 0.1 and av8 1.5
13:18<Zuu>For me the general av8ion does not show up in the content downloading from the mulptiplayer list.
13:18<Zuu>Only the av8 and av8 extra set.
13:18<Ammler>av8ion is just a addon, with old planes, afaik.
13:18<frosch123>Zuu: maybe it is again some bug with dependencies and masking older version
13:19<Ammler>"General av8ion v0.1" <-- is there
13:19<frosch123>Ammler: maybe only if you already have it
13:20<Ammler>where is the suse packer?
13:20<Ammler>0.7.2 not available there?
13:20<Ammler>ususally it needs around 2 hours.
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13:21<Benny>Um.. wtf.. I can't download anything from Bananas it seems.. oO
13:21<Ammler>I just updated our server with banans content
13:21<Zuu>I could download some other stuff from bananas that I didn't have for that Tycoonz server
13:21<frosch123>Benny: for me it works, av8ion 0.1 shows up, even when i remove it
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13:23<Zuu>Hmm, I seams to have general av8ion 0.1 installed already.
13:23<Benny>I restarted OpenTTD and VOILA! It is all here!
13:23<PeterT>hi benny, did you figure out how to get into openttdcoop?
13:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17457 /trunk/config.lib: -Codechange: convert icc version to number so it can be compared more easily
13:23<Zuu>It is some other grfs of that server that is not on bananas and not in #/openttdcoop grfpack.
13:23<PeterT>i was wondering why you didnt know !help
13:23<Ammler>zuu, maybe the stations?
13:24<Ammler>PeterT: you talk OT here ;-)
13:24<Benny>Peter: I mixed up "/" and "!"
13:24<Zuu>Yea, the CS stations set and a few other.
13:24<Benny>I have got all of them except the "CZ towns" thingy.
13:25<Ammler>universal fonts sounds like a static grf
13:25<Ammler>dunno if that is needed for openttd, anyway.
13:26<Ammler>it should be possible to skip static grfs <-- Feature Request :-)
13:27<Benny>Found CZ towns now! :D
13:28<Ammler>frosch123: the dependencies are just something like a autodownload
13:28<Ammler>you still need to load them to the config, I assume.
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r17458 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 28 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 16 changes by Roujin, dihedral
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hebrew - 77 changes by dnd_man
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv
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14:08<PeterT>does it classify as a bug when I try to flatten the map via viewpoints, and openttd crashes? :)
14:10<Ammler>nice plane landing:
14:10<blathijs>PeterT: No, that's a feature specially to annoy you
14:10<PeterT>I thought so!
14:10<PeterT> here I come!
14:10<blathijs>PeterT: You took your time finding it, though
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14:12<@SmatZ>PeterT: do you have clean OpenTTD?
14:13<@SmatZ>I can't reproduce it
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14:21<@SmatZ>gcc : #define __GXX_EXPERIMENTAL_CXX0X__ 1
14:21<@SmatZ>icc : #define __GXX_EXPERIMENTAL_CPP0X__ 1
14:21<@SmatZ>looks like icc's gcc emulation breaks sometimes
14:22<frosch123>Ammler: <- where are you from?
14:23<Ammler>frosch123: almost Neuschweiz ;-)
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14:24<frosch123>ah, so you would try to enter it :p
14:25<Ammler>well, I would very much like to hit the balls of this Affi ;-)
14:26<Ammler>the sad part about it, there are some humans involved.
14:27<Ammler>what would such a man do with a powerful country like german?
14:28<frosch123>well, i only know the context that is writting on the page itself
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14:28<Ammler>Sorry, that doesn't belong here anyway. :'-(
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14:31<PeterT>any patchers here?
14:31<PeterT>what do you use to make the bin folder lighter?
14:32<blathijs>White spray paint, usually
14:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17459 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Change: remove unused defines from MSVC project files
14:35<blathijs>PeterT: I meant to say, lighter in what way?
14:35<PeterT>where can i get the source for r17456
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14:35<blathijs>PeterT: From svn?
14:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17460 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Feature: allow building rail stations over existing rail without signals but will upgrade normal rail to electrified rail if necessary (based on patch by laurijh)
14:36<blathijs>PeterT: svn co -r 17456 <svnurl>/trunk
14:36<PeterT>^ great patch right there ^
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14:36<PeterT>what is "co" for?
14:37<PeterT>i dont like using msys for that
14:37<PeterT>can i do the same with tortoise svn?
14:37<Terkhen>PeterT: check my answers to your posts, I told you how to make binaries lighter some days ago
14:37<PeterT>yes, you told me to take the .svn folder out, but thats only 34 kb
14:37<blathijs>Yeah sure, but I can't tell you exactly how since I don't use GUI thingies for my SVN :-)
14:38<blathijs>PeterT: You should take all .svn folders out, they're in avery subfolder as well
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14:38<blathijs>alternatively, if you don't care about versioning, you could use the svn export command
14:38<@Rubidium>tralalalal... make bundle.... tralalalalal
14:38<@Rubidium>ofcourse for MSVC users that's too hard
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14:42<PeterT>thanks blathijs
14:42<PeterT>i figured it out in tortoise
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14:45<Nite_Owl>Hello all
14:46<Terkhen>yes, make bundle and how to use it on windows was suggested in the same thread
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15:12<PeterT>Rubidium: was that the first actual 'feature' added in the 0.7 series since 0.7.0?
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15:14<Terkhen>PeterT: check the revision log
15:14-!-Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
15:15<Xaroth>I think Rubidium has more to do than to check something for you that you can check yourself, PeterT...
15:15<PeterT>i thought he would just know
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15:18<frosch123>there is even a wiki page about such "user stuff"
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15:25<PeterT>frosch123: where?
15:25<frosch123>hmm, on the wiki?
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15:28<frosch123>or even
15:28<Xaroth>frosch123 :)
15:28<frosch123>though you could of course just enter it into the wiki search
15:29<frosch123>in fact, you can just type the question directly into the searchfield with dozens of typos and it will still find it
15:30<frosch123>not to say, it is quite hard not to find it
15:30<Xaroth>frosch123: as Ammler posted in another chan: :)
15:31<frosch123>even more, the topmost hit for the question does not even contain "ottd", but only "openttd"
15:33<@Rubidium>why is there a tendency for getting dumber and dumber/more ignorant people in here? We ought to get a communication protocol that is too hard for dumb/ignorant people to join.
15:34<Xaroth>Rubidium: one might think that using an 'old' protocol would deter those people, but alas.
15:34<Prof_Frink>V nterr.
15:36<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: what?
15:37<Prof_Frink>Ehovqvhz: Frr! Vg jbexf!
15:39<@Rubidium>ah :) Check...
15:40*Terkhen suggests creating a detailed tutorial about how to get here and stick it in the forums, that way nobody will read it
15:40<@Rubidium>Lrf, V unir gb nterr gung hfvat n plcure yvxr ebg urycf
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16:01<PeterT>have i reported this correctly?
16:02*SmatZ wonder how can you fail in your mother tongue this way
16:02<@SmatZ>you're x your, it's x its
16:02<@SmatZ>PeterT: you don't have crash.sav?
16:03<@SmatZ>it should be in the same directory as crash.log (afaik)
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16:04<PeterT>coming right up
16:05<@SmatZ>hmm bad :(
16:05<@SmatZ>not even empty crash.sav ?
16:06<PeterT>no, not there
16:07<dihedral>if i were a crash.sav..... where would i hide
16:07<dihedral>people who end sentences with three dots are ...
16:07<@Rubidium>where openttd.cfg is ofcourse
16:07<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17461 /trunk/src/misc/blob.hpp: -Document: that a certain compiler warning when compiled without asserts in gcc 4.4+ isn't our fault but GCC's. Includes a reference to the appropriate GCC bug report
16:10<Zuu>Lord Aro is hillarious
16:10<Zuu>"can someone direct me to the site where all the binaries are stored its something like"
16:10<Zuu>OMG you just wrote the address..
16:11<KenjiE20>I thought that too
16:11<Terkhen>i was speechless when i read that post
16:11<Zuu>Too bad I responded already..
16:11<KenjiE20>I went and played some BF2 instead
16:12<Terkhen>and I went back to coding :D
16:12<Zuu>I went to tt-forums beacuse I didn't want to read my email.
16:12<KenjiE20>incidently 1974MB for a patch is a serious PITA
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16:12<Prof_Frink>dihedral: Ellipseptic?
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16:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17462 /trunk/config.lib: -Cleanup: remove unused variables
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16:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r17463 /trunk/src/os/unix/crashlog_unix.cpp: -Change (r17453): Retrigger the abort signal after writing the crashlog, so the next one can catch it again (e.g. to write a core dump).
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17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17464 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use C++0x mode when compiling with gcc >= 4.3 or icc >= 11.0
17:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17465 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Codechange: use builtin static_assert() for assert_compile() if available
17:03<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17466 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Feature: reconnect console command (based on patch of bilbo)
17:04<PeterT>thanks rubidium, you're on a roll today :)
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17:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17467 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: show the client id in join messages at the server (patch by dihedral)
17:28<PeterT>oh, only at the server?
17:29<@SmatZ>what would it be good for for clients?
17:29<@SmatZ>you can do rcon clients easily
17:30<PeterT>i guess
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17:31<PeterT>it sounds great especially for when a "Player" joins
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17:31<@SmatZ>you don't even need to rcon
17:31<@SmatZ>just "clients" as client
17:33<PeterT>can you make a feature that dis allows anybody named "Player" from joining
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17:40<PeterT>why is the rcon GUI listed under WWOTTDGD3 development roadmap, but doesnt appear on tt-forums?
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17:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r17468 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r17464): mingw compilation was broken
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17:48<planetmaker>[23:40] <PeterT> why is the rcon GUI listed under WWOTTDGD3 development roadmap, but doesnt appear on tt-forums? <-- there's a difference between patch and hack
17:48<PeterT>so, how do i get rcon gui?
17:48<PeterT>im sure theres something im missing
17:49<@Rubidium>there's also: 'idea' and 'implementation'
17:49<@Rubidium>basically meaning that if it's just an idea there isn't much use for it on the forum
17:50<planetmaker>and with that good night. I drank wayyy too much.
17:50<@Rubidium>night planetmaker
17:50<@SmatZ>good night, planetmaker ;)
17:51<PeterT>Rubidium, I thought they had made the patch, but forgot to add a link.
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17:56<@Rubidium>hmm, timestamps... how useful is that in real-world consoles?
17:57<Xaroth>depends, timestamps are quite useful for logs when you're tracking down things
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, sometimes i wish my consoles were timestamped
18:01<PeterT>i asked for timestamped consoles about 4 months ago
18:01<PeterT>and yexo said it would be implemented very soon
18:01<Xaroth>soon is relative.
18:01<R0b0t1>I'm one of those ancient turtles. Soon is 25 years. :)
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>you're a Vulkanette?
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>one part galapagos turtle
18:03<Yexo><PeterT> and yexo said it would be implemented very soon <- somehow I doubt I said that
18:03<PeterT>along the lines of "we can do that"
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>at most he said something like "it should be easy to implement"
18:03<PeterT>PeterT| Great! How long?
18:04<Yexo>for me "can" != "will", and "it should be easy to implement" != "I am going to implement it"
18:04<KenjiE20>perhaps looking up the definition of 'can' would be good :)
18:05<@SmatZ>can? it's made of some metal, with meal inside
18:05<@SmatZ>or so
18:05<@SmatZ>@dict can
18:05<@SmatZ>!dict can
18:07<@SmatZ>"Child Abuse and Neglect" scary
18:08<Terkhen> <--- that's ironic
18:09<@SmatZ>"Prior to its hostile takeover," :-p
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18:13<PeterT>what the "!" between the equals sign?
18:13<PeterT>why is that there?
18:13<@SmatZ>! is not
18:13<Terkhen>can != will means: "can is not the same as will"
18:13<@SmatZ>!= is not equals
18:14<Terkhen>I can jump from a cliff, but I won't :P
18:16<PeterT>Prove it
18:16<Terkhen>I can prove it, but I won't
18:17<PeterT>prove that you can prove it
18:18<Terkhen>apply induction ;)
18:19<@Rubidium>Terkhen: maybe better push whoever you're talking to off the cliff, much better for your own health and still allows you to prove the point
18:20<Terkhen>and it's way funnier than induction
18:20<R0b0t1>If you pushed a clone of yourself off a cliff, would it be homicide, suicide, or just another obscene clone fall.
18:21<@SmatZ>certainly it would be obscene
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>R0b0t1: how different should a clone and a twin be treated?
18:25<R0b0t1>Twins are usually different.
18:25<R0b0t1>Clone would be exactly the same
18:30<Yexo>hmm, so pushing a clone of yourself off a cliff would be suicide, after all, since it's eactly the same, it'll also push you off the cliff
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18:33<Terkhen>if you clone someone you hate and push the clone off a clif, it is homicide if the original is still alive?
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>R0b0t1: i very much doubt that a clone will be the same
18:34<KenjiE20>svn for clones!
18:34<R0b0t1>Well, yeah.
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18:57<Ammler>hmm, suse is up2date again, the usual builder was absent :-)
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19:10<Terkhen>good night
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19:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17469 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change: make the AI compatability wrapper not whine about deprecation (yet), but make it clear that the wrapper is running and what (slight) changes there are w.r.t. to 0.7.
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19:43<@SmatZ>@calc 2 ** 24
19:43<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: 16777216
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20:05<Coco-Banana-Man>pf.yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty <--- was that the setting for disallowing long trains entering shorter platform?
20:05<Yexo>Coco-Banana-Man: try "list_settings start_of_setting_name" in the openttd console
20:06<Yexo>you probably want pf.yapf.rail_shorter_patform_penalty and pf.yapf.rail_shorter_patform__per_tile_penalty
20:07<Coco-Banana-Man>oh, yes ^^
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20:09<Coco-Banana-Man>what value do I need to disallow them using a too short platform?
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20:13<PeterT>the largest
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>a very high one
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20:14<Eddi|zuHause>higher than it could ever be to take a detour to the longer station
20:14<PeterT>think about want a large penalty
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>an occupied long platform has a penalty of 800 per tile
20:15<welshdragon>over 9.000? :P
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>a detour is 100 per tile
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>plus signals, reserved tiles inbetween and stuff
20:20<Coco-Banana-Man>hm, 20000 for "pf.yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty" and 2000 "pf.yapf.rail.shorter_platform_per_tile_penalty" seems to be the largest possible values?
20:21<Coco-Banana-Man>ah, 20000 to both I think
20:21<Yexo>use "set setting_name" without a value to get the current/min/max
20:23<Coco-Banana-Man>ok, thank you :)
20:23<@petern>who wrote ZeroedMemoryAllocator?
20:23<Coco-Banana-Man>I hope it works now...
20:24<@petern>i'm wondering if it's safe to use on classes that have things like std::lists, etc
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20:25<@petern>it is only used for 'simple' classes in openttd, which only contain POD members
20:27<Yexo>I'm quite sure it's safe to use, as it only modified the operator new / operator delete functions to use CallocT
20:28<PeterT>my MSYS cant seem to compile the more recent trunks
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20:28<PeterT>i tried compiling the most recent trunk/revision, and it crashes when i try to use "allow building railstations over track"
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20:29<PeterT>and when compiled, I have "OpenTTD r"
20:31<@petern>Yexo, yes, i think it is, i just wanted to double check :)
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20:38<Yexo><PeterT> my MSYS cant seem to compile the more recent trunks <- I have no problems compiling in msys/mingw
20:38<Yexo>I also wonder what you mean by 'and it crashes when i try to use "allow building railstations over track"'
20:39<Yexo>what program crashes?
20:39<PeterT>gives an error message----> ok---->another error---->crash
20:41<Yexo>what kind of error message?
20:42<PeterT>hold on, I will copy it over to
20:42<PeterT>oh damn it
20:43<PeterT>I just compiled one without the patch and it still compiles as "OpenTTD r"
20:45<+glx>you removed some .svn dirs IIRC
20:45<PeterT>this is another
20:45<PeterT>alright, lets try one last time, newest trunkscr
20:47<@SmatZ>hmm right
20:47<@SmatZ>it crashes for me too
20:48<PeterT>it does?
20:49<PeterT>when trying to build station over tracks?
20:50<PeterT>does this command work? cd ~/trunkscr && ./configure && make --bundle
20:51<+glx>it's "make bundle"
20:52<PeterT>what does the bundle do?
20:53<+glx>prepare a package in bundle dir
20:55<+glx>.zip is created with "make bundle_zip" and placed in bundles dir
20:56<PeterT>what command gives help with make?
20:56<PeterT>ok, trunk just finished compiling
20:56<PeterT>lets see what it does
20:57<PeterT>it compiled as "OpenTTD r" again
20:58<+glx>means svn fails to get the version
21:00<PeterT>how do I fix it?
21:01<+glx>what do you get with ./ ?
21:02<PeterT>r 0 r
21:02<+glx>do you have svn installed ?
21:03<PeterT>and svn with msys
21:03<PeterT>svn: This client is too old to work with working copy 'src'. You need
21:03<PeterT>to get a newer Subversion client, or to downgrade this working copy.
21:03<PeterT>for details.
21:03<PeterT>it also says that ^, but that hasn't been a problem before
21:03<+glx>update your svn client
21:05<PeterT>but I dont use the SVN on msys.
21:05<PeterT>that's why I use tortoisesvn
21:05<PeterT>because of this error
21:05<+glx>you use it when compiling
21:06<+glx> doesn't use tortoisesvn
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21:06<PeterT>look at this screenshot for a little bit more info:
21:07<PeterT>Yexo: look at that ^^ for the crash error
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21:12<PeterT>sorry bout that
21:14<PeterT>ok, i'm off for tonight, tell me if you find the problem
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21:27<Yexo>hello Pikka
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21:33<Yexo> This is with default foundations
21:34<Yexo> This is without foundation (for the circled tile), but the ground-sprite has a z-offset of 8 pixels (and is mostly transparant)
21:34<Yexo>basically I don't like either of these solutiosn
21:35<Yexo>do you have ideas on how to solve this?
21:35<+glx>can't you use half foundations ?
21:35<Pikka>same way as for industry tiles? default foundations unless specified otherwise in the grf?
21:36<Yexo>currently I can think of the following: 1. Include the half foundations in the newgrf. 2. Add more return options for callback 0x150 (equivalent of industytile callback 30) so it can also draw halftile foundation
21:38<Yexo>and I'd like a bit more control then callback 3C offers, basically to disallow lowering the north corner of that tile, but allowing all other terraforming
21:39<Pikka>industry tiles action 0D?
21:39<Pikka>property 0D
21:39<Pikka>action 0
21:40<Yexo>that is only per edge, not per corner
21:40<Yexo>at least that's how I read the spec
21:43<Yexo>hmm, I could give property 0D for airport tiles a slightly different meaning
21:43<Yexo>bit 0 = west corner can't be lowered
21:44<Yexo>bit 1 = south corner can't be lowered, etc.
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21:45<Yexo>Pikka: what about ? Should I add information on what's currently implemented or should I create a seperate document for that?
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21:48<Pikka>oh, absolutely @ editing that one. :)
21:48<Pikka>it'll just get confusing if we have multiple spec documents. :) and it's not like the wiki doesn't keep a history of changes if you want to look back at what it used to say...
21:48<Yexo>ok, just wanted to check :)
21:49<Yexo>another feature I've implemented: before a ground tile is drawn, the 'default' grass sprite is drawn (or desert/snow/rainforest), so you can leave parts of your ground sprite empty to show the underground
21:50<Yexo>is it ok to have this always enabled or should there be a bit in some property for it?
21:52<Pikka>I guess it's okay to always have it enabled
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22:09<Yexo>Pikka: the "Allowed Aircraft callback", shouldn't that be a callback for the airport, not for an airport tile?
22:22<Pikka>different aircraft may be buildable in different hangars
22:22<Yexo>in that case maybe specify the hangar num in var10
22:22<Yexo>the main problem with having it for airport tiles is that the related object for airport tiles is an airport, not an aircraft
22:23<Yexo>changing that for a single callback is both inconsistent and a lot more work coding
22:23<Yexo>"11 (w) Noise level" <- I think a byte should be enough
22:27<Yexo>what is a suitable limit for the iteration count?
22:28<Yexo>currently it's 40, but that really is an arbitrary number
22:28<Yexo>is limiting to 15 ok? that way it'll always fit in the high nibble of var18
22:30<Pikka>yeah, should be okay :)
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22:33<Yexo>"Aircraft gain Variable 7C, and an additional property to provide information to the airport state machine. " <- is that really needed?
22:33<Yexo>if so,for what?
22:33<Pikka>the variable 7c, or the additional property?
22:33<Yexo>variable 7C
22:34<Pikka>not for the statemachine, no. I was hoping to do other things with it. :P
22:34<Yexo>ok :)
22:38<Yexo>wiki page is completely uptodate as for what's implemented and what is not yet
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22:47<Yexo> contains a now complete (including working statemachine) airport
22:47<Yexo>I'll compile a new build tomorrow or so
22:48*Yexo needs sleep
22:49<Yexo> <- source of that grf
22:51<Pikka>:o nice
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 08 00:00:36 2009