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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-13

---Logopened Sun Sep 13 00:00:52 2009
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01:38<Pikka>hmmm
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01:42<Pikka>don't suppose anyone has any ideas on making industry tiles stations, a la oil rigs?
01:42<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
01:43<Pikka>who are you calling ho?
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01:45<z-MaTRiX>its a santa claus greeting :P
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02:01<Terkhen>good morning
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02:38<@Rubidium>Pikka: got a test grf so I can test the 'no house foundation' patch?
02:38<Jonis>good morning
02:39<@Rubidium>Pikka: depends on the kind of station
02:40<Pikka>rubidium: I found it on the forums. should put it in the wiki really. :)
02:41<Pikka>hang on, I'll just upload
02:44<Pikka>I gotta head out, be back in an hour or two
02:44-!-Pikka is now known as Pikkagone
02:47<Pikkagone>oh, that grf uses cb30, btw
02:48<Jonis>Anyone who is about to start a game?
02:48<@Rubidium>Pikkagone: as long as it uses that bit to tell whether to check the callback :)
02:51<Pikkagone>00 80 30 30, Rubidium
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03:13<JnZ>??
03:14<JnZ>Hmm, why did I join the channel 2 times? :S
03:23<@Rubidium>'cause it lost network connection with the server and your client then reconnected
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03:25<JnZ>Ok
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03:49<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17518 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Document: some of the callback 'masks'
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04:12<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17519 /branches/0.7/ (8 files in 6 dirs): [0.7] -Update: some of the documentation
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04:16<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17520 /tags/0.7.3-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.3-RC1; happy 100hth day of the year!
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04:37<@Rubidium>why-o-why gets OpenTTD completely useless on each minor release of OSX?
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04:38<Prof_Frink>The apple reality distortion field interferes with the realism is the game.
04:40<@Rubidium>ah well, the 'fix' is easy: don't support 10.6 :)
04:40<Prof_Frink>Nah, that fix'll break as soon as 10.7 comes along.
04:41<Prof_Frink>Don't support OSX.
04:41<@Rubidium>10.3-10.5 PPC and 10.4-10.5 x86 :)
04:42<_ln>Prof_Frink: it's only 04:41 in Québec, you are safe.
04:42<@Rubidium>Prof_Frink: that has definitely already crossed my mind *lots* of times
04:44-!-Pikkagone is now known as Pikka
04:44<_ln>Rubidium: so, what's stopping you?
04:47<Prof_Frink>Angry mac users.
04:48<Prof_Frink>Don't worry, I'll distract them with something shiny while you escape.
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05:37<Xaroth>Rubidium: 100hth day of the year :)
05:38<frosch123>is that a hint that you cannot store the day of year in a byte?
05:39<Xaroth>in a single byte? probably not :P
05:39<Xaroth>two bytes, yes
05:40<@Rubidium>nah, more to programmers' day
05:41<@Rubidium>although if you start counting from 0 you're not 'there' yet
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05:48<@petern>100h? isn't that a bit... basic?
05:48<frosch123>it's assemblish
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05:49<fjb>Hello
05:50<frosch123>moin
05:51<@petern>that's odd, ttdpatch's code uses both "h" and "0x"
05:51<@petern>(first example of assembly i could think of, heh)
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06:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17521 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Change: don't assume that there is always 'another' industry tile after two '0x18' industry tiles
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07:26<Jonis>Hows it goin?
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08:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why is this ttartist forum suddenly so spammy?
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>i constantly get mails saying "please come back"
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08:11<frosch123>are you serious?
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08:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but there appears to be an opt out...
08:27<@Rubidium>but... the ttartists forum can't have that much content that it's spammy; based on trying to view it as a guest "which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features" where I see 0 forums
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but i apparently registered a few years ago...
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>and suddenly i get one message last weekend about my inactivity, and that "the forum improved a lot since my last login"
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>and this weekend i have one again
08:33<@Rubidium>"Welcome to FreeForums.org, By signing up and/or accessing our services you are agreeing to be bound by terms of this agreement. Please read this document carefully as it is a legally binding agreement." Now I assume that their HTTP runs as service... sounds a lot like: "by reading these terms of service you are agreeing with the terms"
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08:34<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: you're back; how did you survive?
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10:01<frosch123>DaleStan: do you agree, that "Callback flags are ignored for additional building tiles." from house action 0 only applies to cb 17 ?
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10:51<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17522 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix: Scroll to selected content after sorting the list and after updating the scrollbar maximum.
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10:58<andythenorth>afternoon
10:58<andythenorth>in the palette (windows) are there two water cycles, or one?
10:59<frosch123>the water cycle contains two independent cycles
10:59<frosch123>one for "normal water" and one for the bright sparcs
10:59<andythenorth>frosch123: winner. that makes propellor wash on boats possible without additional animation in nfo
11:00<andythenorth>:D
11:00<frosch123>"whitecap" says the dictionary
11:01<frosch123>hehe, i'll wait for the grf then :p
11:05<andythenorth>ta
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11:14<Audigex>i know he's left
11:14<Audigex>but how would you get rid of the prop wash when it's stopped?
11:15<frosch123>by testing current speed
11:15<frosch123>though it will look weird when turning :p
11:19<@Rubidium>well, 4 tile long ships will look weird anyway
11:19<frosch123>true, i forgot the prop wash on land
11:30<@petern>articulated ships
11:32<frosch123>yeah, putting mail into the prop wash might keep it up with mail in aircraft shadows :p
11:35<Nickman87>I see the QueryStringBaseWindow has been updated to the NestedWidget system ;)
11:35<Nickman87>perfect
11:36<Alberth>Thank Terkhen for that
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11:38<Nickman87>I saw it in the changelog :)
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11:42<Nickman87>hmmm, does not compile in VS? :s
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11:43<Nickman87>Error 1 error C2535: 'QueryStringBaseWindow::QueryStringBaseWindow(uint16)' : member function already defined or declared d:\openttd-projects\filter signs\svn\src\querystring_gui.h 77
11:43<Nickman87>I get this error 8 times, always same line number
11:45<Nickman87>and indeed, it is defined two times here...
11:45<@Rubidium>that's probably due to custom modifications on your side
11:45<Nickman87>my bad
11:45<Nickman87>yeah, forgot that I had changed it few weeks back...
11:46<Nickman87>funny to see that I made the exact same change :D
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12:43<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17523 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17514): InvalidateWindowClasses() only does SetDirty(), which is no longer enough.
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13:18<Markk>Anyone who lives in Canada?
13:19<frosch123>no, they are all dead
13:21<Audigex>or emigrated
13:21<Audigex>something about "it's too bloody cold"
13:21<Markk>Oh my
13:21<Markk>:P
13:21<Markk>Audigex: :P
13:21<Audigex>hai
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13:23<Markk>Audigex: I live in Sweden, we have like, the same climate here
13:23<Audigex>it does get a little chilly, i'll grant
13:24<DaleStan>frosch123: Something /is/ wrong there. 1A/1B/1C all have to be called for all tiles, I'm pretty sure. I'll look harder later today.
13:24<Audigex>although i dont think they actually have all moved south
13:26<frosch123>thanks, DaleStan, i could not find any trace of the northtile-ness in ttdp
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13:33<Jonis>Hi
13:33<yorick>hi
13:33<Jonis>Hows it goin?
13:33<yorick>no idea
13:34<Jonis>Is that good or bad?
13:34<yorick>somewhere in between
13:34<Jonis>Nice
13:35<yorick>Quite
13:35<yorick>Do you need to Capitalize each line?
13:37<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17524 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting NewGRFs
13:37<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17525 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Cleanup: Remove SetWindowDirty(), it is completely covered by other functions already.
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13:38<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17526 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting the language list in the network GUI
13:39<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17527 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp: -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting smallmaps
13:39<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17528 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp fios.h misc_gui.cpp): -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting FiosItems
13:40<Jonis>Yeah, I do need that
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13:40<yorick>why?
13:42<Jonis>Dunno, started when alot of buddies started with it for some reason and then it's stuck. :S
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17529 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 81 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: greek - 207 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by SupSuper
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 55 changes by nglekhoi
13:46<_ln>gaah, finnish, not again
13:47<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17530 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting EngineIDs
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13:58<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17531 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_basestation.hpp: -Fix: wrong @file for ai_basestation.hpp
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14:16<_ln>play.com: "The phone number must correspond to the landline at the cardholder address."
14:17<FauxFaux>Good luck with that.
14:17<_ln>are they serious?
14:17<FauxFaux>Some credit card companies claim to check it, but I've never had a problem (I don't have a landline).
14:17<FauxFaux>I'm not sure what I told play.com my number was.
14:17<Audigex>what if they dont have a landline?
14:18<Audigex>i know plenty of people who have a contract mobile and don't bother with a landline
14:18<Audigex>especially now, in the days of mobile broadband
14:18<FauxFaux>Banks in being 20 years behind shocker.
14:19<FauxFaux>I can't guess my play e-mail address, and I doubt they'd tell me my 'phone number anyway.
14:19*yorick finally got NDS compiler to work, and my microSD adapter is now broken :(
14:20-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-191.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>Audigex: especially with the "home"-type tarifs, where you get charged landline prices while you are near your home adress
14:22<_ln>I don't have a landline, and I've had a credit card for years.
14:23<Audigex>eddit - exactly
14:23<Audigex>i dont have a landline at uni
14:23<Audigex>my net comes through the uni network
14:23<Audigex>and skype is cheaper
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14:30<Audigex>Doorslammer
14:31<Audigex>your arse -> brforum
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14:54<andythenorth>oops
15:01<PeterT>@seen yorick
15:01<@DorpsGek>PeterT: yorick was last seen in #openttd 41 minutes and 44 seconds ago: * yorick finally got NDS compiler to work, and my microSD adapter is now broken :(
15:02<yorick>PeterT: WHAT IS IT
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>do not wake the beast!!
15:02<Eddi|zuHause># Wir gehen auf die Löwenjagd
15:03<Eddi|zuHause># Wir haben keine Angst
15:03<Eddi|zuHause># Wir haben ein gutes Gewehr dabei
15:03<Eddi|zuHause># Und ein scharfes Schwert. Hah!
15:03<Prof_Frink>Ich habe mein kopf gegessen.
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>"i ate my head"?
15:04<yorick>quite
15:05-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>"the lionhunt" is an interactive children's song
15:06<Prof_Frink>About the only german phrase I can remember. Apart from replacing "ate" with "forgot".
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. the joy of mixing up syllables ;)
15:07<Audigex>meine luftkissenfahrtzeug ist voll von aahlen
15:07<Audigex>thats the only german phrase i can remember
15:07<yorick>hast du dein kopf vergessen?
15:07<Audigex>and i think i mis-spelt it atrociously :-)
15:07<Audigex>have you forgotten your head?
15:07<Audigex>maybe
15:07-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db00273.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann]
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>Audigex: not hopelessly ;)
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, "forgetting your head" is an actual german phrase, it has a meaning ;)
15:08<Prof_Frink>Audigex: Is it bad that I can work out what it says, despite not knowing any of the critical words?
15:09<yorick>Prof_Frink: yes
15:09<yorick>I'd say it is
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: means you are on the f^Hbrink of losing your head :p
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15:16<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17532 /trunk/src/ (61 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Rename several Invalidate functions to SetDirty for more consistency and distinguishability.
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15:31<Hexan>is it posseble in openttd to rotate a airport before i build it?
15:32<PeterT>no
15:33<planetmaker>or not yet :-P
15:34<PeterT>no
15:35<+glx>not yet is the correct answer
15:36<SpComb>vectors and a rotation matrix!
15:36<SpComb>seamless rotation
15:36<+glx>it's more a need sprites problem ;)
15:37<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=810643#p810643 <- HAHA, i like that
15:41-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:41<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:41<yorick>Hello Nite_Owl
15:42<dihedral>hoohoo
15:43<Nite_Owl>Hello yorick and dihedral
15:44<Zuu>Hi dihedral
15:44<Zuu>comming back to #openttd
15:44<Zuu>or just checking out whats going on?
15:44<dihedral>what do you mean 'coming back'
15:45<yorick>oohoo
15:45<Zuu>have not seen you for long time.
15:45<dihedral>ah :-)
15:45<dihedral>well
15:45*yorick has not been here for a long time :-(
15:45<dihedral>i was on holiday for 3 weeks, had a busy last week, and a full weekend
15:45<Zuu>You might have been logged in and joined on #openttd but remained silent :p
15:45<dihedral>yes :-)
15:46<dihedral>that's the bouncer ^^
15:46<Zuu>Ah, hope your holiday was nice
15:47<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=817569#p817569
15:47<dihedral>holiday was awesome
15:47<dihedral>tiring but very good
15:47<dihedral>how about yourself?
15:47<Zuu>My summer was spent in Canada and that was also very nice
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15:48<dihedral>i bet
15:48<Zuu>Was out and hiked a bit in the mountains :-)
15:49<Zuu>Not as home where I today walked 20 km on flat land.
15:49<dihedral>ouch
15:49<dihedral>that would not have been a holiday for me :-D
15:49<dihedral>:-P
15:49<Zuu>Hehe :p
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15:50<Zuu>In Canada I did 22 km, but with an evalution gain of 1400 meters also :-p
15:51-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
15:51<Zuu>The end of that hike was a battle between my brain and my legs :p
15:51<dihedral>i was in swizerland last year, and did a nice hike.... starting at 1400, going up to 2700 and back down to 1600
15:51<dihedral>m
15:52<dihedral>and about 10km distance
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15:52<Zuu>That's steep.
15:52<dihedral>it was
15:52<dihedral>let me see if i can find a nice pic for you
15:52<Zuu>My toes would not be happy after going down that distance.
15:52-!-Audigex [~audigex@78.148.195.48] has joined #openttd
15:53<dihedral>that was an awesome day
15:53<dihedral>took us like 11 hours :-D
15:54<Zuu>Thats long :-)
15:54<yorick>3.6 deg at 22km :|
15:55<Zuu>The good part of my 22-km hike this summer was that we took the gondola down (for free) so we just had to get up the mountain, not down again.
15:57<dihedral>hehe - that's cheeting :-D
15:57-!-Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-191.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit []
15:58<yorick>it does make it 7.1
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16:25<Zuu>dihedral: Thats saving ones knes :-)
16:29<Prof_Frink>Zuu: I once did a circular walk of about 10k. With about 2k climb.
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16:31*Prof_Frink wants to go back to the Cuillin.
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17:21<fjb>Hello
17:22<Peter>hello
17:23<welshdragon>hmm
17:23<welshdragon>0.7.2 refuses to work on Mac OSX
17:24<Chrill>Sure you got the Mac version, not the windows version?
17:24<Chrill>also, try the 0.7.3-RC1 if you wanan
17:25<Peter>0.7.3-RC1! one step closer to 0.8.0!!!
17:25<welshdragon>yeah, i could well have fubar'd the file structure
17:25<Chrill>one day, we'll have 0.9.4
17:25<Chrill>and there'll be such a fight
17:25<Chrill>0.10 or 1.0? :P
17:25<welshdragon>oh bugger
17:26<welshdragon>i forgot about the security dilog
17:26<Peter>we only go up to x.x.4?
17:26<Chrill>no
17:26<Chrill>We might have 0.9.8 if you want
17:26<Peter>what about x.x.5?
17:26<Peter>or x.x.6
17:26<Peter>x.x.7
17:26<Peter>x.x.8
17:26<Chrill>peter
17:26<Chrill>the 3rd number is usually a minor edit to the game
17:26<Chrill>bugfixes and minor addons
17:26<Peter>yes
17:26<Chrill>the 2nd number is for the bigger edits
17:27<Chrill>like, adding PBS signals
17:28<Nite_Owl>and the first number is likely to remain 0 for the foreseeable future
17:28<@Rubidium>Chrill: don't forget to ask whether they have a supported version of OSX ;)
17:29<welshdragon>oh yes
17:29<Chrill>welshdragon is a mean hacker
17:29<Chrill>we should sue him
17:29<welshdragon>you don't support the new OS X do you?
17:29<Chrill>and force him to use Windows - the failproof Os
17:30<Audigex>i had a windows build that never crashed once
17:30<Audigex>but thats only because it never booted in the first place
17:30<@Rubidium>well, wouldn't call it failproof, but it's "backward compatability" record is better than OSX's
17:30<@Rubidium>s/it's/its/
17:31<Chrill>I once had Windows XP
17:31<Chrill>It crashes on a regular basis
17:31<Chrill>my screen goes black at random every now and then
17:31<Chrill>I don't like it
17:31<Audigex>thats one way mac keeps it's "more stable than windows" claim though
17:31<Audigex>don't support any legacy hardware, and there's less to conflict
17:31<Audigex>windows 7 is a nice OS imo
17:31<Audigex>haven't had a problem yet :)
17:32<@Rubidium>Audigex: and each OSX release the port is useless and needs *many* patches/changes to get it working for the 'new' version
17:33<@Rubidium>vs. the windows 95 build works on Windows Vista
17:33<@Rubidium>not as feature rich as the win32 build, but still... it works
17:35<Lakie>If you don't mind, Rubidium, how so? I know MacOS needs some tweaks, but I wouldn't have thought it'd vary hugely from version to version (otherwise you'd have old software failing as people upgrade)?
17:35<welshdragon>yeah, i find that hard to believe
17:35<@Rubidium>1) it doesn't compile on all 10.6 installs
17:36<@Rubidium>2) it is glitchy on 10.6 where is wasn't on 10.5 (wrong colours with 8bpp blitter)
17:36<@Rubidium>3) it gives (sometimes) an error about needing to calibrate the monitor
17:36<@Rubidium>that's all 'new in' 10.6
17:36<Lakie>Ouch
17:37<@Rubidium>10.5 had problems where openttd didn't start on some OSXes
17:37<@Rubidium>which later seemed to be related to the video card driver
17:37<@Rubidium>whereas it worked flawlessly in 10.4
17:37<welshdragon>sounds like a video card driver issue
17:38<Lakie>You could pin some blame on video drivers, but that does seem to make development for Mac OS ports / applications see like a lot of extra hassle
17:39<welshdragon>there are
17:39-!-Nickman_87 [~nick.defr@249.21-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39<welshdragon>quite a few apps that are not working on 10.6 at the moment
17:39<@Rubidium>luckily we have no-one who seems to know enough of OSX to get the port fixed
17:39<welshdragon>and that's one reason why i'm not upgrading
17:40<Lakie>Not even Owen?
17:40<@Rubidium>and I had it with 'stab in the black trying to solve a bug'
17:40<Lakie>Lol, that doesn't work very well.
17:40<Audigex>how many downloads does the osx port actually get?
17:40<@Rubidium>Lakie: well, lets add 'and has time' to the equation
17:40<Audigex>as compared to the windows and linux versions?
17:41<Lakie>Part of the reason we used to demand that we be able to reproduce bugs before trying to fix them with TTDPatch...
17:41-!-Nickman_87 [~nick.defr@232.20-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd
17:41<Audigex>[22:39] <Dreamxtreme> isnt openttd Upnp ?
17:42<Audigex>in #tycoon
17:42<Lakie>Probably less, but Mac OS is still pretty popular?
17:42<Audigex>yeah, but it would be interesting to see how many it does actually get
17:42<@Rubidium>Audigex: 110 average a day for OSX, ~1500 a day for Windows (140 of which 64 bits), ~140 Linux (excluding source downloads)
17:42<Audigex>fair enough
17:42-!-Nickman_87 [~nick.defr@232.20-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit []
17:42<Audigex>not low enough to discontinue then :-)
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17:43<@Rubidium>well, it's already on the path to being discontinued; 10.6 is "officially" not supported
17:43<Audigex>fair enough
17:43<Audigex>a shame
17:43<Lakie>Hmm...
17:43<Audigex>but dev's time would be better spent on working with a less antagonistic os
17:44<Audigex>trying to fix something "stab in the black" as you put it, is far less productive
17:44<welshdragon>I'm saddened to hear that
17:44<Audigex>you'd probably get several times more work done on the windows build
17:44-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@254.151.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
17:44<Lakie>Rubidium: I assume that most of the devs don't use MacOS then, or is it really hard to debug on it (or something)?
17:44<Audigex>none of the devs have macOS, I think
17:44<@Rubidium>none of the active devs run OSX
17:45<Audigex>^^
17:45<Lakie>I thought so.
17:45<@Rubidium>OSX doesn't run in any sane virtualisation platform
17:45<Lakie>:(
17:45<Audigex>and macs are expensive
17:45<@Rubidium>whereas Windows happily runs virtualised
17:45<Lakie>Which means you need a Mac for it and they are expensive.
17:45-!-Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has quit []
17:45<Lakie>Really? Vista crashed my virtual box loads of times during install.
17:46<Lakie>Page fault errors.
17:46<Audigex>windows pc can be built for £100 second hand, enough to run openttd
17:46<welshdragon>Audigex: Snow Leopard is £25
17:46<@Rubidium>Lakie: Windows XP is *more* than enough
17:46<welshdragon>and you don't need a Mac
17:46<Lakie>You need the hardware, welshdragon...
17:46<Audigex>when I say mac, I mean the whole thing
17:46<Audigex>i couldnt buy snow leopard and run it on my machine
17:46<welshdragon>there are Hackintoshes
17:46<Lakie>Well, from what I remember you could fudge the BIOS to install it
17:46<@Rubidium>at least not legally
17:47<Audigex>which are illegal, and prone to bugs
17:47<Lakie>But then you are debugging on fudges which could lead to more bugs
17:47<Audigex>which introduces another whole area of cocking up
17:47<Audigex>how do you know what's the game, the os and just your graphics driver disagreeing with an os it wasn't made for?
17:47*Lakie ponders about driver support for normal machines, probably not too great.
17:47<@Rubidium>and running a *modified* kernel and shit isn't good for debugging stuff
17:47<Lakie>Indeed.
17:48<welshdragon>Hmm
17:48*Rubidium has to confess that osx 10.3.9 runs in pearpc, but pearpc isn't a sane virtualisation environment (way way too slow)
17:49<Audigex>if it turns out that i won the lottery last night
17:49<Lakie>I'm surprised that even some basic support hasn't appeared in virtual box.
17:49<Audigex>i'll buy a handful of mac minis
17:49<Lakie>Heh
17:49-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:49<welshdragon>Rubidium: so essentially development of stable versions of OpenTTD will stop for OSX?
17:50<welshdragon>(if everybody upgrades to 10.6)
17:51-!-bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:53<@Rubidium>Audigex: good luck finding someone (still) interested in fixing the port
17:53<Lakie>Heh, you need a Mac user who knows about programming ideally.
17:54*welshdragon now wants to be a programmer :(
17:54<@Rubidium>well, and has some hardware to test fixes
17:54<@Rubidium>e.g. don't break it for 10.3.9/10.4/10.5
17:54*welshdragon has the hardware, just lacks the OS
17:55<Lakie>Having all the OS' could be a problem though
17:55<@Rubidium>which basically requires a PPC mac too
17:55<Lakie>Thats not really going to happen though is it?
17:56<@Rubidium>Bjarni sold his PPC mac
17:56<@Rubidium>not to mention that Bjarni has no time at all
17:57-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:01<@Rubidium>and in my time with OpenTTD I've seen only a very small number of people with the adequate skill set
18:01<@Rubidium>it even amazes me that Bjarni could pull it off (okay, he sometimes took his time)
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18:02<+tokai>Got a Mac, but don't know about Mac specific programming at all — nor do I enjoy C++ ;)
18:04<Audigex>!p
18:04<@Rubidium>conclusion: lacking the adequate skill set for doing the mac port
18:04<Audigex>whoops
18:04<+tokai>Rubidium: absolutely :)
18:05<welshdragon>it would probably take me years to be able to get the knowledge needed to develop for openttd :(
18:07<+tokai>Back then when it was in C it was very easy; but now with all the C++ you must be really into the code to grasp how it works.
18:08<@Rubidium>well, the OSX API already was ObjC, so not much OO was added since we went C++
18:08<@Rubidium>and most of the C tricks still work
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18:11<+tokai>But it's still strange that no Mac OS X programmer is interested. Seems not much retro-gamers on the platform.
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18:13<welshdragon>there are
18:13<welshdragon>but i don't think the Mac OSX community knows about OSX
18:14<Audigex>mac is a relatively closed system
18:15<welshdragon>not true
18:15<Audigex>so i think that, to generalise far too much, an average mac programmer will know less about osx than the average windows programmer does about windows
18:15<welshdragon>again
18:15<welshdragon>not true
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18:28<@Rubidium>Audigex: agreed, though I even think that the average Mac user knows less about programming than the average Windows user
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18:29<Audigex>the users could go either way
18:29<Audigex>but i'd suspect your right
18:29<Audigex>IMO, as always :p
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18:54<Terkhen>hello
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18:55<Peter>Hello terkhen
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19:23<+glx>[23:48:39] Rubidium has to confess that osx 10.3.9 runs in pearpc, but pearpc isn't a sane virtualisation environment (way way too slow) <-- indeed it's faster than 10.4.8 in vmware, but I compiling on 10.3.9 is not possible, and debugging fails in pearpc
19:25<_ln>is pearpc a virtualisation environment at all? ain't it an emulator.
19:25<+glx>it's an emulator
19:26<+glx>and it doesn't support debugging stuff used by gdb
19:26<_ln>sad.
19:26<+glx>10.4.8 in vmware is slow for only one reason, lack of video driver for vmware (so no acceleration)
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19:27<+glx>but drive access are also slow (that's why compiling openttd requires ~45min)
19:30<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17533 /trunk/src/driver.h: -Fix: missing 'const'
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19:35<_ln>[01:14] <Audigex> mac is a relatively closed system <-- the kernel is open source, the compiler is open source, a lot of the system is open source.
19:35<+glx>have fun with the ObjC(++) parts ;)
19:36<Audigex>but they won't let you do shit with it
19:36<_ln>such as?
19:36<Audigex>although i was honest and said it was a generalisation :p
19:36<Audigex>im not the most mac-aware person on the planet
19:36<Audigex>they wont let me install it, for starters
19:37<Audigex>so by extension, i can't do anything else with it
19:37<_ln>why won't they
19:37<+glx>the API is documented, but some useful stuff is not in the API (like fonts handling)
19:38<_ln>is there a bug report that lists the things in detail that the mac port is lacking?
19:38<+glx>yes
19:39<+glx>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2782
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19:39<_ln>merci
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19:50<_ln>well, just drop the support.
19:50<_ln>it can't be that hard.
20:06<Audigex>it's very easy to drop support
20:06<Audigex>but it doesnt mean the devs actually want to
20:06<Audigex>given the choice, I think they'd have it running on my microwave
20:06<Audigex>but there are only so many hours a day
20:07<Audigex>as we all know, programmers are lazy
20:07<Audigex>i'm sure the devs would rather spend an hour working with the other builds than an hour toiling with mac
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20:20<+glx>we just need someone with a mac, some knowledge and some time :)
20:20<+glx>shouldn't be that hard ;)
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20:43<PeterT>hello
20:43<PeterT>can I make a suggestion for the next dev that comes online?
20:44<PeterT>for the console: could you add the feature to use multiple commands at once?
20:44<PeterT>such as:
20:44<PeterT>rcon <pw> "kick 123 && reset_company 4"
20:44<PeterT>something like msys
20:45<Sacro>glx: i have a mac, some knowledge and some time
20:45<+glx>Sacro: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2782 :)
20:48<Sacro>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1140 <- fuck knows if that can ever be done
20:53<PeterT>this is a neat patch: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3185
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21:10<welshdragon>hmm
21:11<welshdragon>anybody know a thing about distrubution cntres in openttd?
21:11<welshdragon>*distribution
21:11<welshdragon>i have trains that call there, but the seem to drop off/pick up the same amount of cargo - i.e. it stays on the same train
21:12<welshdragon>i have them transferring and taking cargo
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, that obviously won't work
21:15<welshdragon>hmm, yes
21:15<welshdragon>so, no sggestion?
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>plenty
21:16<welshdragon>shoot
21:16<welshdragon>(not literally)
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>1) use transfer&leave empty
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>2) use either cargodest or cargodist
21:16<welshdragon>hmm
21:17<welshdragon>2) is hard as i am playing Infrastructure Sharing patch
21:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, that is your problem :p
21:17<welshdragon>i'll do Transfer & Leave Empty :)
21:17<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: i know :D
21:21<z-MaTRiX>sálálá
21:22<Eddi|zuHause>your a is broken
21:22<Eddi|zuHause>it leaks
21:22<z-MaTRiX>:)
21:23<z-MaTRiX>no its only devil language
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>so the devil speaks spanish?
21:24<z-MaTRiX>yeah
21:25<Eddi|zuHause>what's a dead beef cafe anyway?
21:26<z-MaTRiX>good question
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22:41<Audigex>nn
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22:52<DaleStan>planetmaker: Seen this? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=816834#p816834
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 14 00:00:26 2009