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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-14

---Logopened Mon Sep 14 00:00:26 2009
---Daychanged Mon Sep 14 2009
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00:23<planetmaker>DaleStan: just read it.
00:23<planetmaker>I didn't install the "keep dates within those bounds" workaround yet.
00:23<planetmaker>to the repo
00:25<planetmaker>DaleStan: I'll try to work out in more detail and locate what the problem is. But it might take a bit of time as I'm mostly away from any ttd-related things the next 4 weeks.
00:40<DaleStan>planetmaker: I still have no clue. I even deleted all my data files, just in case something strange was living in there. But if my Holmesian deduction (Eliminate the impossible, and whatever remains, ...) is correct, @@LINT OFF should fix the problem.
00:40<planetmaker>DaleStan: I switched to the new MacOS. Might be related. I'll give it a shot on my old system
00:41<DaleStan>Not that I think that's anything resembling "Good Idea", but it'll get the code into a state where GRFCodec will accept it.
00:41<planetmaker>the local makefile, though, has only an if for my mingw
00:41<planetmaker>@@LINT OFF in the NFO file?
00:42<planetmaker>I shall test.
00:43<DaleStan>Yep. Or -l- (lowercase L) on the command line.
00:44<planetmaker>seems to work.
00:44<planetmaker>yes. without I get the error again.
00:48<DaleStan>Well, I'm pretty sure I know where it's failing then. NFORenum converts every property flagged as a date into a date while checking action 0s.
00:49<planetmaker>yes, I'd assume so.
00:49<DaleStan>It's *supposed* to be guarded so out-of-range dates are shifted into range before being converted, but that apparently isn't working for you.
00:50<planetmaker>I honestly need to check that with my 10.4 install. The boost version used there is the same, but the compiler a different one (and some other system intricacies surey, too)
00:50<planetmaker>*surely
00:51<planetmaker>as this system (partly) calls itself 64 bit as opposed to 32 bit in the 10.4 macos version
00:56<planetmaker>brb. reboot for testing
01:16<planetmaker>DaleStan: beats me. on macos 10.4 I don't get that error. Seems that the boost routine somehow fails on 10.6
01:16<DaleStan>Same boost version?
01:16<planetmaker>yes
01:16<planetmaker>the one on my new HD is a verbatim copy of that dir
01:22<DaleStan>http://paste.openttd.org/216855 should tell us which sprite is causing the crash.
01:24<DaleStan>... Actually, there needs to be an (...) after the catch.
01:25<DaleStan>http://paste.openttd.org/216856 is the corrected patch.
01:33<planetmaker>hm, the patch does not apply for me...
01:34<planetmaker>Died reading sprite 189make: [sprites/2cctrainset.nfo] Error 1 (ignored)
01:34<planetmaker>the context was slightly different... I added it there manually
01:35<planetmaker>http://paste.openttd.org/216857
01:37<@Rubidium>why are there so many people telling incorrect stuff on the forum?
01:38<planetmaker>best case: trying to be helpful, but honest mistake :-)
01:39<planetmaker>worst case: getting a know-all profile without basis
01:39<planetmaker>DaleStan: http://paste.openttd.org/216858 <-- the nfo which nforenum gets fed
01:46<DaleStan>OK. Then try this: http://paste.openttd.org/216859 . With any luck, it'll work (no output) on 10.4, not (crash) on 10.6, and I can blame the boost library.
01:47<DaleStan>... OHSH... Nevermind. I know what's wrong.
01:52<DaleStan>Or, I have a guess: Signedness fun. Please try http://paste.openttd.org/216860.
01:54<planetmaker>yes, that fixes it.
01:54<planetmaker>:-)
01:55<planetmaker>I didn't test yet (again) on 10.4. But it was working there before.
01:57<DaleStan>Well, now I know what's wrong. Now I just get to figure out the correct way to make it right.
01:57<planetmaker>:-)
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02:00<DaleStan>Rubidium: What year does OpenTTD stop updating the date?
02:01<planetmaker>500000 or so
02:01<planetmaker>no 5.000.000
02:02<DaleStan>Ah. Good. Before 32 bit signed overflow of the day count.
02:03<planetmaker>src/date_type.h:#define MAX_YEAR 5000000
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03:25<@Rubidium>yes, it stops before the int32 overflow so one can (in theory at least) add BC dates
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04:41<dihedral>is it possible for me, on a linux system, to watch a file and if the file is deleted or created, run some code??
04:41<dihedral>i need to watch /dev/ttyUSB0
04:42<Noldo>if [ -f /usr/local/bin/irssi ];then
04:42<Noldo>works on bash and tests if the file exists
04:42<Noldo>and is a file
04:42<Noldo>there is propably one for devices too
04:42<dihedral>WATCH
04:42<dihedral>like a 'callback'
04:42<dihedral>monitor that file
04:42<dihedral>not just test a file once
04:43<dihedral>but constantly
04:43<Noldo>udev handles things happening when devices are connected and stuff
04:44<Noldo>I think it does the device file creating too
04:44<dihedral>ok, thank you
04:47<Noldo>hmm there is also something called File Alteration Monitor, but udev is propably better for device related things
04:50<@SmatZ>fam, gamin
04:50<@SmatZ>also some kernel *notify
04:50<@SmatZ>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnotify
04:50<@SmatZ>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify
04:51<z-MaTRiX>;>
04:51<@SmatZ>but those are library functions
04:51<@SmatZ>hello z-MaTRiX
04:51<z-MaTRiX>hi ;>
04:52<@SmatZ>hmm but as the name says, the file has to exist (it's bound to inode number)
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05:04<Terkhen>good morning
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05:38<dihedral>good morning Terkhen
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06:18<@petern>SmatZ, you can watch a directory, i think
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06:25<@SmatZ>petern: good idea
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06:36<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=817719#p817719 <- lol?
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06:39<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=817721#p817721 <- lol?
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06:45<PeterT>dihedral: http://www.tt-forums.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=16798 <-- lol
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08:23<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17534 /trunk/src/ (25 files): -Codechange: unify the naming of callback masks/flags
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09:13<@Belugas>[06:46] * Quits: PeterT (~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Quit: I'm off) <--- indeed, way off
09:14<@Belugas>hello, by the way
09:18<dihedral>hello belugas :-)
09:21<Xaroth>o/
09:21<Xaroth>oooOOoo only 2500 more revisions to go
09:27<Vikthor>Xaroth: r20034? What's so special about that?
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09:31<Xaroth>Vikthor: r20000 ?
09:31<dihedral>Vikthor, arn't you a clever little boy!!
09:31<Xaroth><3 dihedral
09:33*Belugas sends out a calculator to Xaroth
09:33<@Belugas>way to go sir ;)
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09:38<dihedral>dont you just enjoy having nitpickers around??
09:38<dihedral>esp. when it's so obvious what some one is saying!!
09:39<@petern>r20034yeah
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09:39<@petern>r20034 is r1000111000 in binary, it's clear now
09:40<@petern>wait
09:40<@petern>r20034 is r1000111000 in ... ternary?, it's clear now
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09:41<@Belugas>lol
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10:24<muxy>Hi yorick
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10:39<yorick>Hi muxy
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11:23*Belugas stomac is announcing lunch hour 40 minutes in advance
11:23<@Belugas>that is bad sign
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11:31<muxy>i'm back
11:31<yorick>welcome back
11:32<muxy>thx. have you seen my comment on flyspray about master server ?
11:32<yorick>yes
11:32<yorick>good idea, you go make it
11:33<muxy>why not...
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11:53<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17535 /trunk/src/ (crashlog.cpp saveload/saveload.cpp saveload/saveload.h): -Fix: compiling without networking failed; also unhackify the crash logger a bit.
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17536 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: english_US - 4 changes by agenthh
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hungarian - 3 changes by alyr
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: russian - 64 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 23 changes by nglekhoi
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13:52*Belugas wants to go home!
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15:30<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17537 /trunk/src/ (crashlog.cpp gamelog.cpp): -Fix: don't crash while printing gamelog in crash handler if we crashed before while gamelog action was active
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15:31<frosch123>everyone should say that three times clear, loud and quick, please
15:32<@SmatZ>:-)
15:33<Prof_Frink>*that**that**that*
15:34<yorick>*that**that**that*
15:34<Doorslammer>Oh god
15:35<frosch123>looks like small children pointing at each other
15:35<Prof_Frink>He started it!
15:35<Doorslammer>Hah, story of the BRSet
15:37-!-fonsinchen [~alve@BAEd4d8.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:37<yorick>Prof_Frink started it!
15:37-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-27f8e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
15:37<Zuu>Yexo_: Are you there?
15:38<Prof_Frink>No I didn't!
15:38<Zuu>Guess not since he has an underscore in the end of his nickname.
15:39<yorick>yes you did!
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15:42<Prof_Frink>yorick: Go on then, finish the quote
15:42<yorick>?
15:43<yorick>ooh, it's 21:42
15:43<yorick>21*2 = 42
15:43<Prof_Frink>"What? You started it! "No we didn't!" "Yes you did, you invaded Poland!"
15:44<yorick>ok, Prof_Frink: you invaded Poland!
15:44<Prof_Frink>\o/
15:44<Doorslammer>Go Frink!
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15:44<@Rubidium>FT?
15:44-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-14-64-35.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
15:44<Doorslammer>Or should I say, Comrade Frinkowski
15:45<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Aye.
15:52-!-Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
15:52<Yexo>good evening
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15:53<@SmatZ>anyone here using gcc 4.5 trunk?
15:53<Yexo>Zuu: I am now :)
15:53<@SmatZ>< two weeks old
15:53<Zuu>Hi Yexo
15:54<Zuu>I was just thinking about buging you about a project page for PAXLink.
15:54<Yexo>sure, no problem
15:54<Zuu>But I saw you need a few details, so I'll pm them to you.
15:55<Yexo>only the identifier is important, is "ai-paxlink" ok?
15:55<Yexo>you can change the rest later
15:55<Zuu>yes that is good
15:55<Zuu>My username is same as usual.
15:56<Zuu>I guess the user database is not too big to scan through visually either.
15:56<Yexo>http://noai.openttd.org/projects/show/ai-paxlink there you are :)
15:56<Zuu>Thank you Yexo :)
15:56<Yexo>http://noai.openttd.org/svn/ai-paxlink <- svn, but you'll have to wait +- 20 minutes before it's created
15:56<Zuu>No I need to re-learn how to use svn/cvs again. :-p
15:56<Yexo>no link to that can be found, so you might want to add that in the description field
15:57<Zuu>Haven't used that for like 5-6 years or so. (as developer)
15:57<frosch123>[21:55] <SmatZ> < two weeks old <- but you have been coding for ottd longer than 9 months
15:57<Zuu>Yexo: ok
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15:58<@SmatZ>hehe
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16:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17538 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename STR_CONTENT_FILTER_(OSKTITLE|TOOLTIP) for more general usage.
16:24<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17539 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace a magic number.
16:25<Yexo>TrueBrain: Are the repositories sitll generated at :17? If so, why doesn't http://noai.openttd.org/svn/ai-paxlink work yet?
16:25<TrueBrain>Unable to connect to http://10.42.42.7/sys/service.wsdl : unknown element: {}html
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16:26<TrueBrain>solved
16:27<Zuu>Thanks TrueBrain
16:27<TrueBrain>my pleasure
16:27<Zuu>:-)
16:28-!-yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!]
16:28<Zuu>By the way (tell me if I should head to the docs instead of asking you) is it an import or an export I want to do? Or just a commit?
16:29<Yexo>just a commit
16:29<Yexo>or multiple commits if you want to include old versions
16:29<Zuu>Okay
16:29<Zuu>Tortise seams to not allow me to do that, but I gues if I just checkout r0 I can then commit.
16:30<Yexo>yes, you need a working directory first
16:30<Zuu>Commiting old versions might actually be a good idea.
16:30-!-Dreamxtreme was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [THIS IS Epic fail!]
16:31<welshdragon>lol?
16:31<Zuu>I should have all the v1-13 tars laying around and they are also on tt-forums.
16:31<welshdragon>why kick dreamextreme Belugas?
16:31<welshdragon>i see no recent comment by him
16:31<@Belugas>'cause i can't kick him in #tycoon
16:31<Prof_Frink>I do.
16:32<@Belugas>[16:29] <Redirect_Left> Whats OpenTTD default port?
16:32<@Belugas>[16:30] <Belugas> OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
16:32<@Belugas>[16:30] <Dreamxtreme> ottd not using UPNP is epic fail
16:32<@Belugas>stupid user who knows it all
16:32<welshdragon>Belugas: he'
16:33-!-Redirect_Left [~rdl@5ad420fc.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
16:33<welshdragon>was only moaning as he can't start a server
16:33<welshdragon>lol
16:33<welshdragon>a Redirect_Left
16:33-!-Dreamxtreme [~chatzilla@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:33<Redirect_Left>Quite.
16:34<welshdragon>#TCOON INVADES #OPENTTD :O
16:34<Redirect_Left>fail spelling.
16:34<Redirect_Left>#tycoon is more win though.
16:34<welshdragon>*#TYCOON
16:35<Dreamxtreme>lol
16:35<@SmatZ>raid?
16:36<jonty-comp>that's why #openttd has more people in
16:36*Zuu is happily unaware of what is going on in #tycoon
16:36<jonty-comp>Zuu: that's definitely a good thing
16:37<@SmatZ>welcome here, gentlemen
16:38<Prof_Frink>#tywhatnow?
16:38*Dreamxtreme goes to the very lowest level of IRC
16:40<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17540 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move functionality of PlaceProc_Town() to FoundTownWindow::OnPlaceObject()
16:41<Dreamxtreme>oooooo Win
16:41<Dreamxtreme>!
16:42*Dreamxtreme looks at the source code of the nightly
16:44<Dreamxtreme>hmm Belugas ?
16:45<@Belugas>what?
16:45<andythenorth>if #tycoon style of discussion is coming in here, I'm off
16:45<andythenorth>but that may be no bad thing
16:45<Dreamxtreme>how can i support ottd ?
16:45<@Belugas>dunno. it all depends on your capacities
16:46<@Belugas>since i don't have a clue abouty those, i cannot tell
16:47<Prof_Frink>If only there was an alternative to #tycoon...
16:47<Dreamxtreme>what are you looking for
16:47<andythenorth>nfo nfo nfo nfo
16:47<Dreamxtreme>i can do most things lol
16:47<andythenorth>can you do nfo?
16:47<andythenorth>most people can't
16:48<Dreamxtreme>nfo ?
16:48<jonty-comp>I can't!
16:48<andythenorth>join an elite band!
16:48<jonty-comp>I tried, but I have no hope in hell
16:48<andythenorth>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs
16:48<jonty-comp>also, someone should port the NFO spec to the openttd wiki
16:48<jonty-comp>the ttdpatch tikiwiki thing annoys me for some reason
16:48<jonty-comp>perhaps because, well, it isn't mediawiki
16:49<andythenorth>I have a standing bet with two people that they can't write an nfo compiler that is (a) sane (b) finished (c) implements everything nfo can do
16:49<andythenorth>do I mean compiler?
16:49<Dreamxtreme>as in http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=SampleNfoFile
16:49<Dreamxtreme>?
16:50<andythenorth>all these computer words, they baffle me
16:50<andythenorth>strange computer world
16:50<Yexo>andythenorth: "nfo compiler"? so something like grfcodec?
16:50<jonty-comp>I thought grfcodec fulfils all those requirements :p
16:50<andythenorth>yes, except leaving the nfo part out completely...
16:50-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:50<andythenorth>i.e. write in language that is not batshit crazy
16:51<jonty-comp>if I could write C++
16:51<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:51<jonty-comp>I would make it so you made GRFs using MXL
16:51<jonty-comp>*XML
16:51<jonty-comp>it would be so much easier, but rather difficult to plan out :o
16:51<Yexo>oh, it's a bet they can't write a random-high-level-language to nfo compiler
16:52<Yexo>jonty-comp: how exactly would writing it in XML make it easier? To be able to do everything that nfo already can, it'd easily become such a mess that it'd be worse than nfo
16:52<andythenorth>XML is a dead route, they're thinking something like python -> valid newgrf
16:52<jonty-comp>at least it would make a slight amount of sense
16:52<Yexo>^^ note that I don't think nfo is bad, it just has a steep learning curve
16:52<andythenorth>or haskell -> valid newgrf
16:53<andythenorth>or brainfuck -> valid newgrf
16:53<andythenorth>http://corky.net/dotan/log/2006/06/stupid-programming-languages.html
16:53<jonty-comp>nfo is like the assembly language of game modding
16:53<jonty-comp>everyone else uses Lua nowadays :(
16:53<Dreamxtreme>ok i think i got this
16:53<asilv>nfo was surprisingly easy to learn for me, I expected something much more difficult from other people's descriptions
16:54*Dreamxtreme has a bloody good read on http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GeneralNfoStrategy
16:54<Terkhen>I'm still trying to understand callbacks :P
16:55<asilv>mostly grf coding is just time consuming not difficult once you learn the basics
16:55<Yexo>asilv: agreed :)
16:55<jonty-comp>I gave up, I just get annoyed at it and then I can't write it anyway
16:56<jonty-comp>not that I ever particularly made the effort
16:56<Terkhen>that's true
16:56<jonty-comp>there are enough coders around
16:57<Terkhen>after some time coding the numbers start making sense
16:57<@Belugas>but not enough GOOD coders
16:57<@Belugas>and i'm all but a waste right now... so i'll run home and sleep until tomorrow
16:57<@Belugas>bye
16:57<@Belugas>don't miss me
16:57<andythenorth>bye!
16:58<Yexo>good night Belugas \
16:58<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
16:58<Terkhen>good night Belugas
16:58<andythenorth>If anyone can implement brainfuck -> valid newgrf (that's worth playing with, not just a one-trick programming pony), I'll give prizes
16:59<andythenorth>http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/
16:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17541 /trunk/src/ (core/smallvec_type.hpp lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Feature: Filtering in Add-NewGRF dialog.
17:00-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00<jonty-comp>andythenorth: lolcode -> valid newgrf!
17:00<jonty-comp>Belugas: well OK, there are already enough bad coders
17:00<jonty-comp>and I would be a bad coder
17:00<jonty-comp>well, I am already a bad coder in HTML and PHP and VBA and C#
17:01<_ln>of which HTML is not a programming language
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm sure one could extend my NDL compiler with a brainfuck parser
17:01<Xaroth>neither is PHP
17:01-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
17:01<Xaroth>nor VBA
17:01<_ln>Xaroth: do not try to confuse us.
17:02<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: but can anyone write valid brainfuck to do something useful?
17:02<Nite_Owl>Oooo frosch: Filtering to what extent
17:02-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that i don't know ;)
17:02-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-14-64-35.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
17:02<Xaroth>_ln: they are interpreted languages, not compiled programming languages
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's pretty trivial to encode hexadecimal, decimal or binary numbers in brainfuck
17:03<Nite_Owl>Oooo frosch123: Filtering to what extent <name corrected for IRC>
17:03<andythenorth>well if you think that's too easy...
17:03<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge
17:04<andythenorth>(not turing complete)
17:04<frosch123>Nite_Owl: good from bad of course
17:04<_ln>Xaroth: that's not a definition of programming language.
17:04<jonty-comp>_ln/Xaroth: I never said they were programming languages, but I certainly write code in them :P
17:05<Nite_Owl>I will check it out once the compiling is done tomorrow
17:05<andythenorth>bedtime
17:05<frosch123>slow compiler?
17:05<andythenorth>good night
17:05<jonty-comp>also
17:05<jonty-comp>VBA is compiled!
17:06<Redirect_Left>Success!
17:06*Dreamxtreme creates some new NFO's
17:06-!-tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:06<dihedral>jonty-comp, .... sure - as is PHP* (*at run time)
17:06<Nite_Owl>No, no - the daily public compiling
17:07<dihedral>daily pubic compiling?
17:07-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
17:07<Nite_Owl>trunk release ??
17:07-!-Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc1-papw2-0-0-cust1013.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:08<Nite_Owl>Whatever such language you prefer
17:08<Dreamxtreme>php is nice
17:08<Nite_Owl>I am being too obtuse
17:08<dihedral>Dreamxtreme, what??
17:08-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.89.142] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:09<Nite_Owl>or obvious in not knowing the proper terminology
17:09<Dreamxtreme>its easy to pick up and learn
17:09<dihedral>that is something different
17:09<Dreamxtreme>what lang ?
17:10<_ln>Dreamxtreme: it's easy to pick up and learn wrong
17:10<Dreamxtreme>so true
17:11-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe6e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:11<dihedral>perl can be easy to learn
17:11<Dreamxtreme>firebug is the best tool for php
17:12<Xaroth>s/php/html
17:13<Dreamxtreme>yea
17:15<dihedral>vim!
17:17<Terkhen>anyone knows why UpdateNearestTownForRoadTiles needs _generating_world to be true when invalidating cached data?
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>is _generating_world true in the scenario editor?
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: most likely an optimisation because towns can't change during a game
17:19-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@252.150.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like an expensive operation anyway
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>in a simple approach, for each tile it is O(n^2) to find the nearest town, and there might be O(n^2) tiles to check, so worst case is O(n^4)
17:21-!-Audigex is now known as Audi[away]
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>where n is the length of the edge of the map
17:22<_ln>isn't there a separate notation for the worst-case and average-case and so on
17:22<Terkhen>mmm... I see
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>i know worst case is O and best case Omega, then there is Theta for when both classes are the same
17:23<Terkhen>it seems like I won't be able to just remove the limitation
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>(which is different from "average")
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: it's the simple approach, an optimisation could be O(m*n^2) where m is the number of towns
17:24<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: for each tiles it's O(M), where M = total number of towns
17:24<Yexo>hehe :)
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>it's very likely that m << n^2 ;)
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>but the original O(n^2) figure can be reduced when one assumes a fairly even distribution of towns, then it's O(k^2) where k is the largest distance between neighbouring towns
17:26<Terkhen>mmm... I remember doing some optimization in a case similar to this one, but I don't remember what exactly
17:26<@SmatZ>[23:17:00] <Terkhen> anyone knows why UpdateNearestTownForRoadTiles needs _generating_world to be true when invalidating cached data? <== so cache isn't updated after each built road tile
17:27<Terkhen>it seems like I found another prerrequisite for the found a town patch :P
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>there are more cases like this, like nearest town from station (for station names), or industries around a station (for catchment area cargos)
17:27<@SmatZ>really?
17:28<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: station name isn't generated from "nearest" town, but from "nearest" woth when station is built
17:28<Terkhen>mmm...
17:28<@SmatZ>it doesn't change when town is founded / station is moved
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: yes, but it's the same problem of finding the town in the first place
17:29<Terkhen>okay, I'll give the road building code a look :)
17:30<@SmatZ>[23:26:45] <SmatZ> [23:17:00] <Terkhen> anyone knows why UpdateNearestTownForRoadTiles needs _generating_world to be true when invalidating cached data? <== so cache isn't updated after each built road tile
17:30<@SmatZ>err forget it :-p
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17:31<@SmatZ>not sure it's correct, better verify my statement ;)
17:31<@SmatZ>it's usefule when "generating many random towns"
17:31<@SmatZ>but it's not set when building "long road"
17:31<_ln>if there's a traveling salesman who wants to visit all the cities on a map using the shortest route, is that a problem?
17:32<@SmatZ>_generating_world is there used so town generates more houses or so...
17:32<@SmatZ>some parts of town building code depend on that
17:32<@SmatZ>it doesn't have much to do with the cache
17:32<@SmatZ>in this case
17:33<Yexo>_ln: of course not, just block all routes except one
17:33<@SmatZ>_ln: my behaviour is nondeterministic
17:33<_ln>is there a newgrf with a salesman?
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17:34<Terkhen>SmatZ: my current hack is to turn _generating_world to true, execute UpdateNearestTownForRoadTiles, set it to false again and then execute DoCreateTown... the town is created as before, but the houses aren't fully built from the start
17:34<Terkhen>I haven't seen any other differences
17:34<HackaLittleBit>evenin
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17:34<Zuu>Hmm, the company takeover seams to give vehicles (and possible other things too) to the wrong company. I just played as AI company number 3 in my game (using cheats) and when I answered yes to take over TownCars then Rodje got the buses instead of Chopper :-)
17:35<Zuu>And for some reason a new TownCars did not start either.
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17:35<Yexo>Zuu: you got a savegame from just before you got that question?
17:36<Zuu>Yexo: No, but I had a similar issue before when I played as AI 1 (paxlink) and the player got all the vehicles.
17:36<Zuu>So Im sure I can make a savegame for you.
17:36<Yexo>not needed if you have to create one
17:37<@SmatZ>[23:34:17] <Terkhen> SmatZ: my current hack is to turn _generating_world to true, execute UpdateNearestTownForRoadTiles, set it to false again and then execute DoCreateTown... the town is created as before, but the houses aren't fully built from the start <== interesting idea
17:38<Terkhen>it looks nice, but I still have to check that it doesn't introduce any problems
17:39<Terkhen>I found it by accident anyways
17:39<@SmatZ>hack is hack :)
17:39<@SmatZ>maybe using some "bool _leave_houses_unfinished" would be better ;)
17:40<@SmatZ>anyway, I am now merging and a bit changing your patch ;)
17:40<@SmatZ>there are some strange things, like
17:40<@SmatZ>this->RandomTownName();
17:40<@SmatZ>static void RandomTownName()
17:41<Terkhen>:)
17:41<@SmatZ>also, storing grf_id and such as static variables of FoundTownWindow
17:41<Terkhen>mmm... yes, I had to change it to static
17:41<@SmatZ>I will do some changes in that :)
17:41<Terkhen>I probably made a mess with static variables as I always do
17:41<@SmatZ>nah, it was ok
17:41<Terkhen>okay, thanks :)
17:42<@SmatZ>as more variables were static
17:42<@Rubidium>IIRC not all houses are finished; just build a town in the sceneditor and see it grow in inhabitants for a while without getting extra houses (it's like 5-10% though)
17:42<@SmatZ>guess it comes from before-oop-in-GUI times ;)
17:42<Terkhen>let me check why I had to change them to static
17:45<Zuu>Hmm, can't reproduce it in my new game and didn't save the old one..
17:45<Zuu>Though I have not tried to do things in the order as I did them in order to simplify it a bit.
17:45<Terkhen>SmatZ: I think I had to convert them to static because I had to call RandomTownName in a static function, but I don't remember which one
17:45-!-asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit []
17:46<Zuu>But I'll try re-do what i did first time.
17:47<Terkhen>Rubidium: okay, I'm going to check that... I am currently trying to implement a check that gives an error when trying to found a town when towns can't build roads and there is no roads around (to prevent towns with 0 population)
17:51<Zuu>Still I failed to reproduce it. So I'll stop for now, but if it happens again I'll try to record it.
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... has the limitation that the center tile must be a road been lifted?
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17:52<Yexo>Zuu: lots of related code looks sane, so no obvious problems there
17:52<Zuu>Okay
17:53<Zuu>In both cases when it happened it was the company above in the UI-list (drop down lists of mani menu) of companies that got the buses.
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18:01*Zuu dreams of a script that goes trough .nut files and collect all function signatures from the implementation part of a class so that he can make sure all functions are declared as static
18:02<Zuu>Unless it falls down from heven I should probably dust of my limited ruby skills and make that script.
18:03<Yexo>maybe the nail code can be of help
18:03<Yexo>if I recall correctly the parsing part was mostly done
18:04<Zuu>Okay. It only need to read the function abc::def(var, var2) line and then output a list of all functions.
18:05<Zuu>A better script would compare it against the available static declarations and either insert new static functions or inform me which are missing. But that extra part has not as high value as the first part.
18:07<Zuu>My Builder class has a subset of its functions that are static and are used as static functions and then some users of the class create an instance and use that. This creates nasty bugs when a static function calls a non-static function which only shows if the static function was called from outside as a static function but not when it is called using an instance of the class. :-)
18:08-!-Audi[away] is now known as Audigex
18:08<Zuu>The error that OpenTTD spills out is "index not found functionXYZ" where functionXYZ is a non-static function called from a static function.
18:09<Zuu>I've fixed a few, but I need to make a propper fix or more bugs will be found/created. :-)
18:09<@Rubidium>Audigex, now you're back: announcing you away-ness (or lack thereof) by changing your nick or automated messages is unwanted in this channel
18:10<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r17542 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp economy.cpp):
18:10<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix: don't access variables in the company struct after it has been deleted
18:10<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Cleanup: remove some never-used code
18:10<Audigex>my bad :(
18:10<Audigex>i've always just assumed it to be common irc practice
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18:11<Zuu>Using /away might be allowed (I don't know) since most clients filter that out anyways.
18:11<Zuu>At least most clients I use, but then I only use x-chat :-p
18:11<Yexo>X-chat doesn't ignore them, the username is drawn in grey instead of in black
18:12<Zuu>Yea, but it doesn't show it in the chat log as some clients does.
18:12<Yexo>Zuu: does a simple grep do what you want? Like "grep 'function' *.nut"?
18:13<MyCatVerbs>Zuu: /away is very much allowed and recommended.
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18:14<MyCatVerbs>Away status doesn't get spammed at anyone; instead, one picks up on it when PRIVMSGing or WHOISing. Much better. ^_^
18:14<Zuu>Yexo: Yea should do or beter "grep 'function ClassName::' class_name.nut
18:14<Zuu>Just need to install Cygwin but that shouldn't harm to much to have it installed hehe
18:15<Zuu>The question when you make a new windows install / buy a new computer is not if but when you end up installing Cygwin.
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18:17<@Rubidium>but... but... I've only installed cygwin once :)
18:19<@Rubidium>(and Windows more than once)
18:19<Dreamxtreme>anyone got Win 3.1 or old windows i want to load and play on vmware
18:20<Dreamxtreme>oops wrong place lol
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18:21<Eddi|zuHause>i installed win 3.11 in DosBox once
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>needed a little tweaking for 256 colours and sound
18:22<FauxFaux>I have copies of the disks. ¬_¬
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>i have an original (OEM) CD with win 3.11
18:22<@Rubidium>it came on CD?
18:23*Rubidium remebers the 20 or so floppies for Windows 95
18:23<@Rubidium>and then the extra 8 or so for Internet Explorer
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>ooooh, yes. i had win 95 beta on disks
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>and it was sooooo unstable
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>i must have some win 3.1 disks somewhere (those were 7)
18:24<@Rubidium>back in the good old days that you could boot and start Windows (3.11) from a single floppy :)
18:25<Nite_Owl>I still have a Windows 95 CD - never saw it on disks
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>i once got so annoyed by the compressed win95 boot disk, that i used an over-formatted disk and unpacked it
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>i once installed win 95 from cd onto a computer without cd or network
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>and the .cab files on the CD were 1.7MB, so they wouldn't fit on normal disks
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>and windows refused to format to 1.7MB
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>but from old DOS days i still had this handy tool "VGACopy"
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>which could format 1.7MB floppies
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>so i had two of these floppies, and switched them around between a computer with CD drive, and the one installing windows
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>one .cab file at a time
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18:33<Zuu>Night folks
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18:44<HackaLittleBit>Eddy and don't forget the delightfull fight with IRQ, espacially with sound cards :)
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18:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17543 /trunk/src/sound/allegro_s.cpp: -Fix [FS#3200]: allegro's sound output was worse than excepted
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18:51<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - Later all
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19:20<Terkhen>good night
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19:25<HackaLittleBit>good night all
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22:00<z-MaTRiX>hi.
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23:07<Audigex>bedtime i think, night guys
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 15 00:00:57 2009