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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-20

---Logopened Sun Sep 20 00:00:50 2009
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02:42<DaleStan>andythenorth (Pounce message): 0, most likely.
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03:53<DJNekkid>are there any excel experts here by any chance?
03:53<DJNekkid>i want to do a calculation, but i want the awnser to have zero digits behind the comma...
03:54<DJNekkid>i.e. 50/3 = 16,67 ... i want it to round up to 17
03:54<planetmaker>DJNekkid: either use round() or trunc() or ceil()
03:55<planetmaker>or format the output to only show 0 digits
03:55<DJNekkid>not possible to format...
03:55<planetmaker>if you want round then use round
03:55<Tefad>this isn't rocket science
03:55<planetmaker>still you'll have to tell openoffice / excel to not display the float parts of your number
03:56<andythenorth>when *does* the rocket science start?
03:56<planetmaker>at t-30
03:56<andythenorth>anyone want to draw the / \ angles on my new boat?
03:56<Tefad>format the column...
03:56<andythenorth>thought not.
03:56<andythenorth>I'd better get on with it then
03:56<Tefad>le sigh.
03:56<planetmaker>[09:55] <DJNekkid> not possible to format... <-- why not?
03:57<DJNekkid>planetmaker: something like: =$AJ$10&$B14&AT$11&($O14*0,75)
03:57<DJNekkid>=$AJ$10 & $B14 & AT$11 & ($O14*0,75) (to put it more readable)
03:57<planetmaker>DJNekkid: and? what stops you telling it to display the output formatted?
03:57<planetmaker>hm... & is a string operation?
03:58<DJNekkid>aye :)
03:58<planetmaker>then use numbers
03:58<planetmaker>and you need to be way more verbose in your problem description in order for others to make sense of it IMO
03:58<planetmaker>a) you use OpenOffice, not excel. That makes a difference
03:59<planetmaker>b) rounding strings is kinda impossible
03:59<DJNekkid>i am at openoffice...
03:59<DJNekkid>they are, hence, why i asked if there are some kind of operator that can round it for me
04:00<planetmaker>depends strongly on what your thing is you want to operate on
04:00<DJNekkid>for example 50/3:0 where the 0 means 0 comma-spaces
04:00<DJNekkid>it = the calculation
04:00<planetmaker>give me the sheet and I'll look
04:00<planetmaker>it = calculation means it's not a string but a number
04:00<DJNekkid>cell AT14
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04:01<planetmaker>we don't know your sheet. so cell numbers don't help :-)
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04:01<DJNekkid>uploaded to 2cc files
04:01<DJNekkid>but we can continue this on the devzone chat..?
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04:25<Terkhen>good morning
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06:08<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17582 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Move TownActions and _town_action_costs[] to a header file to allow sharing.
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06:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17583 /trunk/src/video/allegro_v.h: -Change: make SDL's video driver more likely to be loaded than Allegro's video driver; SDL seems to perform better.
06:21<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17584 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Codechange: split the NewGRF StringID mapping in a 'global' part and a part that's for NewGRF strings
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06:22<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17585 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix [FS#3214]: also do the StringID conversion for StringIDs that are pushed on the (NewGRF string) stack
06:25<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17586 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Adding documentation, and replacing some numbers with constants in the town authority window.
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06:40<Luukland>Hi everybody, I am having a small problem
06:41<Luukland>I just created a scenario but I cant seem to change max loan
06:41<Luukland>Once I change it, and save the scenario, and I load it again, it is were it was, no change :S
06:41<Luukland>Does maybe someone know how I can manually change it in some way?
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06:44<Luukland>Maybe some developer can help me here?
06:45<Alberth>a quick experiment confirmed what you already found out.
06:45<Luukland>lolz :p
06:46<Luukland>maybe I must use an older version of OpenTTD :P
06:46<Luukland>Let me see :p
06:46<Alberth>the value from the main menu when you start designing a new scenario seems to be used.
06:47<Alberth>you cannot load newer files in older versions usually
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06:49<Luukland>you are correct
06:49<Luukland>But that means I have wasted my time creating a scenario at wrong difficulty?!
06:50<Alberth>I would rather call it 'an unexpected difficulty level', but yes.
06:50<Luukland>Is there any way to copy the landscape or something?
06:51<Luukland>I have spend an hour or 2 :p
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06:52<Luukland>Mr. Belugas or Rubidium, should I create a bug task for this?
06:52<Alberth>I wouldn't know any way to rescue the scenario
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06:53<Luukland>Blergh, its maybe possible to open the scenario by hand or something :S
06:53<Alberth>hmm, my version allows clicking at the other buttons in the difficulty settings
06:54<Alberth>(at the top)
06:54<Luukland>will it also save?
06:54<Luukland>Or will it stay the same after saving and reloading
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06:56<Alberth>hmm, no, you are right.
06:56<Alberth>Looks like a bug
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06:57<Luukland>Damnit, all this time wasted, * biep *
06:57<Alberth>I guess one should be able to change this setting, and probably other settings too in the scenario editor. I don't know why that does not work.
06:57<Luukland>... Angrt ...
06:57<Luukland>Well time to create a flyspray task >_<
06:57<Alberth>If it is not supposed to be done, then the easy/medium/hard buttons should also be disabled.
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06:58<Luukland>But is should be changable :S
06:59<Luukland>That whas the whole idea of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
06:59<Luukland>You could start each scenario with different settings :)
06:59<Alberth>Luckily, we don't do TTD here :)
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07:02<Luukland>Well, I bet you agree that the idea of TTD and scenarios seems more logic than nowadays at OTTD
07:02<Luukland>Anyways I created the flyspray
07:03<Luukland>They probably will close it anyways, but I have a small piece of hope :P
07:03<Alberth>ok, thank you
07:05<CraKinShOt>flyspray is where you submit patches as well right?
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07:10<Luukland>anyways Alberth, thx for corfirming my problem :) I hope they will fix it somehow...
07:11<Luukland>Cya :)
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09:20<Alberth>haha, OTVI is making a bus route across the water
09:25<planetmaker>they're already planning for the unification of RV and ships: amphibian vehicles :-P
09:27*planetmaker wonders whether a unified "has power on" via a general terrain descr. might be sensible
09:27<planetmaker>then the HEQS vehicles could have power on all clear terrain
09:28<Alberth>never tried those, currently experimenting with ships
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>problem is not just the power, but also the movement patterns
09:33<planetmaker>but still, clear terrain could be treated as a kind of road type
09:33<planetmaker>each tile as a 4-way junction
09:34<planetmaker>I guess it would mean that HEQS would need to at least 10-fold its prices ;-)
09:34<Terkhen>then you have a problem with trees... unless HEQS vehicles just destroy them as they move
09:35<planetmaker>Terkhen: those tiles are not clear :-)
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09:35<planetmaker>as also a piece of acre wouldn't be - as I understand it.
09:35<planetmaker>just plain grass tiles
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09:42<Terkhen>but trees will grow at these tiles
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09:50<Alberth>build a saw-mill nearby :p
09:52<planetmaker>Terkhen: yes, they can grow. But so can roads be demolished
09:53<planetmaker>The advantage of those tiles is their free "road" character, the disadvantage is that it might change ;-)
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10:10<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i think a "trails" roadtype would make more sense
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10:12<andythenorth>I do believe such a thing (trails) was started started :)
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10:14<Terkhen>planetmaker: then you can plant trees around a vehicle to trap it
10:14<planetmaker>Terkhen: sure I can.
10:14<planetmaker>As I can bulldoze road
10:15<planetmaker>But surely some sort of "trails" type is way easier as it is feasable with way less changes
10:16<Terkhen>not if the roads are company owned
10:18<planetmaker>then I build a cheap vehicle and stop it to block the road
10:19<planetmaker>yeah, I know. Unfinished... :S
10:19<Terkhen>mmm... true :P
10:20<planetmaker>I guess it boils down to: whoever wants to sabotage that one can.
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10:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm... funny, at the current rate, the "coal peak" [i.e. the point where production can't be increased anymore] is in russia in 500 years, but in china in 50 years
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause>[comparison: "oil peak" is already passed in some states like the US and UK, and worldwide oil peak is expected to be in around 40 years]
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>[does not mean that oil is run out then, just that no further ressources can be accessed, so production will drop and price will increase]
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10:37<Ammler>Something like pioner vehicle, where it drives and no road, it builds a trails, trails do again disapear after some time, if unused.
10:40<andythenorth>that's really the intended destiny of bulldozers in HEQS....if the game ever gets anything like that feature
10:43<Ammler>plain tiles are quite easy and you can tranfer it to trails in e.g. 2 days, trees needs another 2, only very slow wood bridges, no tunnels.
10:44<andythenorth>is someone actually patching for this, or are we dreaming out loud :)
10:44<Ammler>but might be to far away from TTD, too much another game type.
10:45<Ammler>I mean, you "could" extend it to roads and rails...
10:46<Ammler>You do only plan the lines and it needs some time until it is built...
10:46<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17587 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Town authority window uses pure nested widgets.
10:46<andythenorth>set out route markers, same as bouys for ships
10:46<andythenorth>snow poles for example...
10:46<Ammler>frozen lakes :-)
10:47<andythenorth>ice roads...
10:47<andythenorth>oh no, they would be a road type
10:47<andythenorth>(or a hack of bridges)
10:47<andythenorth>winter freeze up of water would be very awesome. But completely unlikely to get coded :P
10:48<Alberth>so near november it gets frozen, and in february, is becomes water again, and all ships stop for 3 months :)
10:49<Alberth>poor ships, and their profit is so low already
10:49<andythenorth>^^ not my ships
10:49<andythenorth>I am a shipping magnate
10:49<andythenorth>very profitable
10:50<Ammler>stopped ships don't cost much, that would be already possible
10:50<Ammler>and at this time, you use the ice roads
10:50<Alberth>drive trucks on the ice :)
10:51<Ammler>you can use the farm trucks :-)
10:51<andythenorth>Conditional order jump for trucks "go to depot if the month is between March and October"
10:51<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> winter freeze up of water would be very awesome. But completely unlikely to get coded :P <- i don't think it's that unlikely. it should be fairly easy to implement
10:53<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: easy != someone will do it :)
10:56<andythenorth>going bouldering, back later. Maybe trails / ice roads / winter freeze up will be done by then :)
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10:58<Ammler>he, maybe petern has already a patch for :-P
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11:07<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see how ice roads could be done...
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11:27<Alberth>first of all, you'd need a road down to the water
11:28<Alberth>then convince the path finder it is safe to drive on water :)
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11:36<asilv> <-- railroad on ice
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11:56<fjb>I wouldn't do that wit an electric engine.
12:01<fjb>But there is less water on top of the ice.
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12:32<fjb>Hmmmm, FIRS oil platforms need engineering supplies, but AV8 helicopter can only transport surves supplies.
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12:35<Eddi|zuHause>that's a problem of AV8, i suppose
12:35<CraKinShOt>well think I'm there...
12:35<CraKinShOt>added signalex pool
12:36<CraKinShOt>done a basic saver loader
12:36<CraKinShOt>added it in as (SL_MAX_VERSION, SL_MAX_VERSION)
12:36<CraKinShOt>which I assume would be changed with whatever the version is for the trunk.
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, you should do (VERSION_YOU_FIRST_APPLIED_THE_PATCH, SL_MAX_VERSION)
12:38<CraKinShOt>any idea what the current version is?
12:38<CraKinShOt>the trunk version
12:39<+glx>savegame.cpp IIRC
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12:49<planetmaker>CraKinShOt: learn to search the code: grep -Ri "SL_MAX_VERSION" src/*
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13:03<Ammler>fjb: no ships?
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13:03<fjb>Ammler: Not enough water. :-)
13:04<fjb>I could use a train over most of the distance and then a ship. But a helicopter would be much easier.
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>well, then hack the AV8 grf to enable the cargo
13:06<Ammler>not the first grf, you would need to hack :-P
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>i did that with the dbxl_ecs.grf and PBI's "clay"
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13:10<fjb>Hm, never hacked around the cargo things in a grf. But I dont mind that much. Balancing the passenger planes with cargodist is the bigger problem right now.
13:13<CraKinShOt>planetmaker: there is a difference between guessing and knowing. All the saveloader's have fixed number versions or SL_MAX_VERSION. So I did look through
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13:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17588 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3220]: erroneous message about changing the difficulty level
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13:34<fjb>What does "Allow more realistically sized catchment area" do?
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13:35<Alberth>catchment area size of the various types of stations is different afaik, but never really bothered to find out in detail.
13:36<Alberth>if disabled, they are equal
13:36<@Rubidium>just try it in-game :)
13:37<fjb>I'm just trying. I guess my problems with passenger balancing is that the catchment area of the airports is that big.
13:38<Alberth>move it further away from the city :)
13:39<fjb>I'm playing in rough moutains, glad to find places to build them.
13:40<planetmaker>you should have sufficient money to level the entire map. All problems solved
13:40<planetmaker>Including the fun playing ;-)
13:41<fjb>Last thing would be another problem. I like to build bridges an tunnels. Flattening everything keep away the fun.
13:43<Yexo>fjb: with that setting off, catchment area is always 4
13:43<fjb>But cargodist makes it possible to build the airports further away from the towns. That is true. Even joining airports for long distant flights an for local traffic is possible.
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13:43<Yexo>with that setting on, for bus/truck stops it's 3, for train stations 4, for airports depending on airport size and for docks I have no idea
13:44<fjb>Yexo: I just found out. Thank you. That can make a difference with the large airports.
13:44<fjb>Small airports it is 4 and large airports it is 5.
13:44<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17589 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename town_acc to always_accepted
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17590 /trunk/src/lang/ (turkish.txt unfinished/vietnamese.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: turkish - 4 changes by niw3
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 78 changes by nglekhoi
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13:46<fjb>I have lots of passengers at the airports but I'm loosing money with the planes. Guess the passengers don't get away from the airports fast enough.
13:47<asilv>i want a keyboard that has A,B,C,D,E and F in numpad...
13:48<fjb>Coding the housesn grf? :-)
13:49<asilv>yeah, these "road sensitive" buildings are pain to code
13:49<asilv>but they look nice
13:49<Ammler>asilv: use escape sequences :-P
13:50<asilv>I like hex
13:50<Ammler>oh well, you don't have those in the numpad either.
13:51<fjb>The people in one town prefer to use the trams which go counter clock wise.
13:51<asilv>I mainly use escapes for "real numbers" population, years etc, hex for internal nfo stuff
13:51<asilv>like action 2 id etc
13:52<DaleStan>asilv: Autohotkey will (I believe) allow you to reassign the num-pad keys however you like.
13:53<frosch123>but there are only 5 useless keys on the numpad
13:54<DaleStan>I count 7. I know enter can be captured, and I'm pretty sure numlock can too. (Caps lock can.)
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13:55<DaleStan>Of course, Autohotkey does only work on Windows.
13:55*frosch123 considered enter and . useful
13:55<DaleStan>How many times do you use . in NFO?
13:56<asilv>my numpad has "," instead of "."
13:56<DaleStan>Though having * available would also be nice.
13:57<frosch123>then " " is more useful
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14:03<Eddi|zuHause>i never really used the numpad
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>except for 8-direction-movement (e.g. in civ)
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14:05<frosch123>it is useful if you want to type lots of numbers using one hand :p
14:05<andythenorth>fjb: re FIRS oil
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, sure..... but i guess i don't have the need to type lots of numbers ;)
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>but afair also TT supported 8-direction movement
14:10<fjb>andythenorth: I would prefer a heliopter. Else I would have to dig a very long channel.
14:11<andythenorth>:) ok
14:11<andythenorth>well you could request cargo support for AV8? Or offer to extend it to support FIRS?
14:12<andythenorth>Most planes refit to most things in most planesets, so I'm surprised it doesn't already refit to what you ened
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14:13<fjb>The planes refit to almost everything I expected. They refit to survey supplies, but not the other supply types.
14:13<fjb>And I better don't touch the grf without more knowledge abou nfo conding.
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14:32<frosch123>andythenorth: <- does that solve your start/stop problem?
14:34<andythenorth>maybe :) Just reading the code, I have no idea, but I could compile from that, right?
14:34<frosch123>i hope so :)
14:38<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r17591 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add [NoAI] [FS#3212]: AIAirport::IsAirportInformationAvailable. Also update several preconditions so it's now possible to get information on airports types that can no longer be build (small airport after 1960)
14:40<frosch123>sounds like some line-break problem
14:41<_ln>eh, a lot of Blu-rays at have "Format: PAL" in their description.
14:41<frosch123>which do you want? #13, #13#10 or #10 ?
14:41<frosch123>(CR, CR+LF, LF)
14:44<andythenorth>frosch123: let's try CR+LF for good luck
14:44<Ammler>frosch123: mac :-)
14:45<frosch123>andythenorth: ok, then reload :)
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14:46<frosch123>though you could also patch manually as it's only one line :p
14:46<frosch123>(as long as you do not complain about the same problem when the ship breaks down :p)
14:46<planetmaker>usually it shouldn't matter for compile anyway, should it?
14:46<+glx>patch requires LF IIRC
14:47<planetmaker>hm... sometimes when I patch with patches from the forum, it patches, but issues many warnings about CR+LF line endings
14:47<planetmaker>but it doesn't matter really
14:47<+glx>yes it can "understand" CRLF (and warn) but I think CR is a no go
14:48<planetmaker>that's \r ?
14:48<planetmaker>no one uses it :-)
14:48<+glx>standard mac eol
14:48<planetmaker>but deprecated since the emergence of OSX or so
14:49<planetmaker>OS9 might have had it still
14:49<frosch123>CR is also standard ttd/newgrf eol :p
14:49<+glx>OSX deprecates too much (especially in their API)
14:49<planetmaker>they quite a volatile API, yes...
14:51<planetmaker>but using the unix \n was IMO a good idea
14:52<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17592 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp industry_cmd.cpp station_base.h tile_cmd.h): -Fix [FS#3212](r17436): force all cargo being accepted when industry tiles accept it but industry itself doesn't
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>does that mean sold cargo does not bounce back into the station when its stockpile is exhausted?
14:55<planetmaker>what does it mean, SmatZ ? :-)
14:55<@SmatZ>many industries are accepting passangers
14:55<@SmatZ>but don't have them in "Requires" list
14:56<planetmaker>ah, well. is there not a difference between "require" and "accept"?
14:56<@SmatZ>none :)
14:56<@SmatZ>it's just called "Requires" in the GUI
14:57<@SmatZ>cargo accepted by industry tiles affect station's acceptance
14:57<planetmaker>hm... but a factory or steel mill won't magically produce steel just because you dump loads of people there who wanted to actually go to a spa resort?
14:57<@SmatZ>cargo accepted by industry... can be very different
14:57<@SmatZ>it usually isn't, but can be in principle
14:58<@SmatZ>station accepts pax
14:58<@SmatZ>but industry doesn't have any "message" about pax being delivered
14:58<@SmatZ>they just go into black hole
14:58<planetmaker>ah... acceptance by tile doesn't mean the industry...
14:58<planetmaker>so it's for that sake just a tile which accepts.
14:58<@SmatZ>yeah :)
14:58<@SmatZ>the problem is that pax are accepted by station
14:58<planetmaker>but doesn't do anything with it :-) Thanks for explaining.
14:59<@SmatZ>but aren't delivered to industry
14:59<andythenorth>frosch: compile worked. change worked. Ship graphics now work as expected. Everything works. Let's go home :)
14:59<@SmatZ>so you weren't paid for them (since r17436)
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14:59<planetmaker>ah, ok
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14:59<@SmatZ>the possible future is not to unload cargo that is not accepted
14:59<@SmatZ>(instead of unloading it and not being paid)
14:59<andythenorth>oops forgot to tab-complete. frosch123 ^^^
15:00*frosch123 also highlights on frosch and frosh :p
15:00<planetmaker>SmatZ: so... it's envisioned to kinda remove the option to bring workers to factories or steel mills?
15:00<frosch123>so, if it works, it might also work in the other cases :)
15:01<frosch123>planetmaker: it was just readded :)
15:01<@SmatZ>planetmaker: nope :) rather, with stockpiling, stop accepting cargo once stockpile is full
15:01*planetmaker fell into confusion again... :-)
15:01<@SmatZ>instead of when "station's big tick detects it's no longer accepted"
15:01<andythenorth>I'm confused :)
15:01<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r17593 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Fix (r17591): as always after a noai commit ...
15:02<planetmaker>lol @ commit message ^
15:02<andythenorth>for most cases, passengers to industries is a bad use of limited cargo slots IMO
15:02<andythenorth>but hey, newgrf makes it a matter of taste
15:03<planetmaker>hm, are those pax actually then occupying a cargo slot? those of steel mill & co?
15:03<frosch123>no, oilrigs do not process passengers into oil
15:03*planetmaker is relieved
15:03<frosch123>nor do steelmills make steel of them
15:04<planetmaker>hehe. olive oil is from olives. what is baby oil made from?
15:04<frosch123>SmatZ: you can survive a day using only a few sentences :p
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15:04<planetmaker>stille wasser sind tief? ;-)
15:05<planetmaker>"still waters run deep" should be the English translation
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15:05<andythenorth>frosch123: so is the passenger acceptance done only the tiles, not the industry (confused again...)
15:06<planetmaker>[20:58] <planetmaker> ah... acceptance by tile doesn't mean the industry...
15:06<planetmaker>[20:58] <SmatZ> yeah :)
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15:08<Terkhen>SmatZ: what's the status with the "choose town name before creation" patch? are there any required changes?
15:09<@SmatZ>Terkhen: working on it :)
15:09<@SmatZ>I am
15:09<+glx>yoda you are ?
15:09<Terkhen>okay, thanks :)
15:09<@SmatZ>I am thinking about moving that "town name stuff" to separate file
15:09<@SmatZ>but we have namegen.cpp already
15:09<@SmatZ>so it would be in two files in fact
15:09<@SmatZ>but moving it to namegen.cpp is strange too...
15:10<@SmatZ>maybe the best solution would be renaming namegen to townname.cpp
15:10<@SmatZ>or so
15:10<@SmatZ>and adding related code there
15:10<frosch123>andythenorth: <- some stuff for reading
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15:11<@SmatZ>glx: happy am I, yes :)
15:11<Terkhen>mmm... I see
15:11<Terkhen>if there is anything I can help with, tell me :)
15:12<@SmatZ>you have done the hardest GUI part ;)
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15:25<DJNekkid>when useing extended bytes ... can i use \bx* ?
15:26<frosch123>\b* iirc
15:27<frosch123>and \b*x ?
15:27<DJNekkid>oki... :)
15:27<DJNekkid>ive used \b* until now
15:27<DJNekkid>but concidering useing hex values
15:28<frosch123>yeah, i misread your question at first :)
15:29<DJNekkid>so, \b*x for hex values?
15:29<frosch123>never used it, but renum's code looks like that
15:29<DJNekkid>okidoki :)
15:36<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17594 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix: Vehicle image was not always updated when needed.
15:40<planetmaker>^ andythenorth
15:42<frosch123>hmm, aircraft have no breakdown sound effect
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15:48<andythenorth>^^ thanks for that.
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16:13<Zuu>Yexo: Thanks for your quick fix to FS#3215. Since your fix will not appear untill next nightly I have not tested it, but by reading the changeset on I understand it like IsAirportInformationAvailable will return false on airports not yet available. What happens if a user uses the cheat dialog to get back in time?
16:14<Zuu>Will IsAirportInformationAvailable return false on airports that have once been available but are now not anymore because they will be invented in the future?
16:16<Zuu>Or will the game remember which airports that have been available before (play-time wise) in the game, even if that is in the future (in-game years wise)?
16:16<Yexo>IsAirportInformationAvailable will return true for all airports (no matter if they are currently available or not)
16:16<Zuu>Oh, thats good.
16:16<Yexo>so it also works on future airports
16:18<Zuu>Good to hear.
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16:19<Zuu>It will be interesting if users will se it as a bug that PAXLink will no longer remove its small airports at 1960. :-) (I have not tested, but I see no reason why not v13 (last on bananas version) would do that)
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16:21<Zuu>Indeed v13 does remove its small airports at 1960 :-)
16:24<Zuu>Hmm, v13 is quite broken in some areas, so I should probably not delay v14 to long. Not that v14 is perfect, but at least it know better than sending vehicles to depot that are already on the way to the depot. :-)
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16:27<Zuu>Am I dreaming when I think that trunk was changed so that when you load a game it will pick the last version of a given AI even if the exact version exists? If not it does not seam to work in all cases. Unless my info.nut is broken in some way.
16:28<CraKinShOt>some of the code in this is just pure awesome
16:28<Yexo>I think it should pick the exact version if available
16:28<CraKinShOt>I love the pool and saveload stuff
16:29<Zuu>Yexo: Opinion or what you think OpenTTD does?
16:29<Yexo>what I think openttd does
16:29<Yexo>what I think is best: always pick latest
16:29<Yexo>at least if it can load the data from the older version
16:29<Zuu>I remember it used to be that, but I though it was changed some time ago. But then I was just dreaming. :-)
16:30<Yexo>there were some changes, but I would have to look up what they were exactly
16:30<Terkhen>in r17954 at the helidepot, helicopters land at the tile with the building instead of landing at the helipad, is this normal?
16:31<@Rubidium>Terkhen: no, it isn't
16:31<@Rubidium>see FS#3169
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16:33<Terkhen>okay, thanks :)
16:33<Zuu>Can't you use MinVersionToLoad()? I recall it should return the min version of the savegame that the AI can load. And looping through the AIs of the same name/shortname available and picking the one with highest GetVersion() that accepts the savegame?
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16:35<Yexo>Zuu: yes, that'd indeed what should (as in, what I think is best) be implemented
16:36<Zuu>Okay, then we at least agree on that point. But I have no idea how much work that would be or how happy you are to do it. ;-)
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16:36<Yexo>it requires changes changing some internal "select ai"-functions
16:36<Yexo>not too much work, but not a 5 minute job either
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16:38<Zuu>I can file a feature request if you want to have a reminder for it. And then you can do it if/when you feel you have time for it.
16:40<MYOB>all of three years later I get a BeOS-varient with GCC4 and find that the build system doesn't like me any more ;(
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16:41<Yexo>Zuu: I think it's in my latest list in the "api request" topic, but feel free to open a fs task for it
16:42<@Rubidium>MYOB: well, I guess it hasn't been used/tested for 3 years (since the makefile rewrite)
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16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really know why, but reading "MYOB" always makes me think of beer
16:58<MYOB>s/M/B/, that'd be why...
17:00<MYOB>right, managed to get the build system to know what I'm at and stdafx fixed
17:00<MYOB>string_func hacked a bit, need to fix that properly
17:05<andythenorth>good night
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17:05<MYOB>right, my C++ (lack of) knowledge has failed me with this error
17:07<CraKinShOt>Rubidium: Had a crack at doing the extended signals thing
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17:07<CraKinShOt>will test it properly then submit for addition in trunk
17:09<CraKinShOt>altered it slight so that now if bit 15 of m2 is set to true, then all the free remaining bits of the RailWithSignals tile class make up a 15 bit index into a pool
17:09<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17595 /trunk/src/tree_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Tree build window uses pure nested widgets.
17:09<@Rubidium>MYOB: what other changes have you done? looks like it doesn't want to 'convert' int32 to int or so
17:10<MYOB>Rubidium none, just set stdafx.h to know to use SupportDefs.h for int declerations same as on BeOS
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17:11<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:11<Alberth>good bye
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17:12*Nite_Owl sniffs his armpits
17:12<Nite_Owl>Do I offend?
17:13<@Rubidium>MYOB: does help?
17:13<Nite_Owl>Hello CraKinShOt
17:13<CraKinShOt>Bad timing I think
17:15<MYOB>Rubidium it now proceeds to line 145 before a very similar error
17:15<MYOB> /boot/home/Desktop/trunk/trunk/src/ai/api/ai_company.cpp: In static member function 'static bool AICompany::SetLoanAmount(int32)':
17:15<MYOB> /boot/home/Desktop/trunk/trunk/src/ai/api/ai_company.cpp:145: error: ambiguous overload for 'operator-' in 'loan - AICompany::GetLoanAmount()()'
17:16<MYOB>same fix works there
17:16<@Rubidium>hmm, what kind of size is int on your system?
17:16<@Rubidium>doesn't seem to be int32 or int64
17:17<MYOB>I've always assumed it was int32
17:18<@Rubidium>oh... BEOS doesn't typedef signed int as int32
17:18<CraKinShOt>surely its set in the compiler?
17:18<@Rubidium>that might be the cause of (most) of your trouble
17:19<@Rubidium>so, how's int32 defined on BEOS?
17:19<@Rubidium>i.e. what typedef does it use?
17:19<MYOB>typedef long
17:19<@Rubidium>ah, there's the problem
17:22<MYOB>more errors by line 154:
17:22<@Rubidium> <- does that help in any way?
17:23<MYOB>Rubidium I'm running on a BeOS clone (Haiku) and if you don't include SupportDefs and add __HAIKU__ to that !defined the entire build explodes
17:24<MYOB>it doesn't define __BEOS__ at all
17:24<@Rubidium>hmm, you probably mean their API explodes :(
17:24<MYOB>well, the majority of software around doesn't have much problem with it, considering its Firefox I'm posting those pastebin entries with...
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17:25<@Rubidium>new myob.diff
17:26<@Rubidium>uhm... saying "but some application used by many people does work" is nasty; do you know what problems someone else had porting it to haiku?
17:27<@Rubidium>if you're using types that the API for 'some' reason uses too, but you expect them to be slightly different stuff will break
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17:28<@Rubidium>or FF doesn't care about the exact number of bits in a variable
17:28<MYOB>that diff causes GetPrice in ai_bridge.cpp to break
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17:30<@Rubidium>ofcourse... that returns int...
17:30<@Rubidium>another diff
17:30<@Rubidium>(my even break my system)
17:31<@Rubidium>luckily it doesn't
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17:32<MYOB>back to line 154 in ai_company.cpp going
17:33<MYOB> /boot/home/Desktop/trunk/trunk/src/ai/api/ai_company.cpp: In static member function 'static bool AICompany::SetMinimumLoanAmount(int32)':
17:33<MYOB> /boot/home/Desktop/trunk/trunk/src/ai/api/ai_company.cpp:154: error: ambiguous overload for 'operator-' in 'AICompany::GetLoanInterval()() - over_interval'
17:33<MYOB> /boot/home/Desktop/trunk/trunk/src/ai/api/ai_company.cpp:154: note: candidates are: operator-(int64, int32) <built-in>
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17:33<@Rubidium>oh... guess it needs more wrapper crap :(
17:34<MYOB>its referencing lines 63-65 of overflowsafe_type in the error
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17:35<@Rubidium>new diff
17:36<Zuu>Ouch, evil forgotten semicolon at the end of a one-liner while-statement that was supposed to not have a body. The line after set the start_date to current date => disabling the aborting after 20 days in the loop. :-)
17:36<Zuu>The line after the loop*
17:37<Zuu>Couldn't be a more evil line that got included in the body.
17:38<@Rubidium>okay, this is getting annoying :(
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17:39<@Rubidium>can't you (re)typedef int32 ?
17:39<MYOB>I apologise for some 1992-era design decisions that we're fairly forced to keep :/
17:39<MYOB>Rubidium would cause all sorts of colliding definitions would it not?
17:40<@Rubidium>well, I'm sorry that long isn't always 32 bits
17:40<@Rubidium>and that int != long
17:41<@Rubidium>the trick to get the overflow safe type to work is fairly easy, it's just annoying to duplicate it that often
17:42<Eddi|zuHause>wait... they typedef int32 as long, and can't guarantee that long is 32 bit?
17:42<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: no, the compiler gets confused that it can't decide whether long can be cast to int or uint
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17:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that the type of int32 needs to be the same as int for OpenTTD to compile
17:44<@Rubidium>at least with gcc not figuring it's okay to use int instead of long because they're equally large
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17:45<@Rubidium>MYOB: is there some virtualbox image with haiku + development tools I can download? I tried some live cd, but that kinda failed to have the required stuff to build OpenTTD
17:46<MYOB>Rubidium the Alpha 1 CD has nearly all thats required, "setgcc gcc4" at the cli changes you to GCC4 and SDL is on
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17:46<MYOB>I'll get the link for that now
17:47<@Rubidium>hope I don't forget that tomorrow; am not in the mood (read: an awake state of mind) to perform an installation of any kind
17:47<MYOB>got it to go past there now anyway...
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18:04<MYOB>right, my brain hurts looking at this now
18:05<MYOB>I don't remember having these issues with gcc2 at all as it happens
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18:05<@Rubidium>C doesn't care about types, C++ does
18:06<MYOB>but theres various stuff thats never going to compile with gcc2
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18:10<MYOB>right, sleep time
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18:11<CraKinShOt>quick question
18:11<@Rubidium>is it time to go to bed?
18:11<@Rubidium>answer: yes it is!
18:11<CraKinShOt>all signal removals go through CmdRemoveSingleSignal?
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18:12<CraKinShOt>or if a tile is blown up, its handled seperatly?
18:12<CraKinShOt>just trying to get my head around how this is all done. :|
18:13<CraKinShOt>(took a while to follow the remove track button to it using this command)
18:13<Yexo>if a tile is blown up CmdRemoveSignalRail is called
18:14<Yexo>CmdRemoveSignalRail in turn calls CmdRemoveSignals if there are signals on the tile
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18:14<Kejhic>I noticed if RV is not able to foud way to station it will skip order, is that new feature or bug?
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18:15<CraKinShOt>cool, should mean I can just put in my SignalEx destruction in CmdRemoveSignals I won't have to duplicate it
18:15<Yexo>Kejhic: if it's road vehicle to rail station/airport/dock it's probably a feature, otherwise probably a bug
18:15<Yexo>I say probably because I don't remember any changes to that behavior
18:16<Kejhic>road vehicle, also did not notice (but i am not using road vehicles often)
18:16<Yexo>CraKinShOt: have you thought about tiles with 2 different signals on them?
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18:22<CraKinShOt>the SignalEx is bound to a tile with any signal
18:22<CraKinShOt>lots of check to make sure thats true
18:22<CraKinShOt>then in SignalEx there are some place-holders to specify what extra features on on the 01 and 23 signals
18:23<CraKinShOt>well no, all 4 actually
18:23<CraKinShOt>but in principle, its one SignalEx to a tile
18:25<CraKinShOt>So I just need to interject some code in the signal removal, so that if the tile changes from RailWithSignal type the SignalEx object is deleted from the pool
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18:25<CraKinShOt>and that any alteration of the signal makeup on a tile is routed to a function in signalex_func.h that handles it
18:26<CraKinShOt>that then should make is general and small to handle all cases, without major changes to the existing code
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18:34<Yexo>CraKinShOt: you don't need to use SLE_CONDVAR in saveload/signalex_sl.cpp becuase you add a new chunk
18:34<Yexo>but you should add 1 to SAVEGAME_VERSION in saveload/saveload.cpp
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18:35<CraKinShOt>right ok, fixing
18:36<Yexo>and (not sure on this one) you might need to set the bits you use to 0 in AfterLoadGame for old savegames
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18:41<CraKinShOt>so if(CheckSavegameVersion(127)) wipe used bits?
18:42<CraKinShOt>is that the way to say "Any version prior to 128?
18:42<CraKinShOt>seems logical
18:42<Yexo>I think it should be if(CheckSavegameVersion(128)), but not 100% sure
18:43<Yexo>will check that
18:43<CraKinShOt>yeah I see the condition
18:43<CraKinShOt>less than
18:44<Yexo>Upon destruction does NOT remove its ID from the tile, by default. <- what does that comment mean exactly?
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18:45<CraKinShOt>if you delete the structure, its destructor doesn't remove it from the tile
18:46<CraKinShOt>you should call the function that destroys SignalEx specially
18:46<CraKinShOt>and that then removes the bits from the tile properly
18:46<Yexo>ah, ok
18:47<Yexo>I think that should be a comment for the destructor, not for the class
18:47<CraKinShOt>I might private the constructors and destructor and friend everything that needs them
18:47<CraKinShOt>that way there will never be unexpected behavour
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18:52<Yexo>+static inline SignalEx* GetSignalExByID(SignalExID id){
18:52<Yexo> <- recently there have been some changes to using functions like: SignalEx::GetByTile instead
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18:55<CraKinShOt>oh right, static in the stuct then
18:55<CraKinShOt>no prob
18:56<CraKinShOt>*all* static inlines?
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19:02<CraKinShOt>bit wiered, the trunk version for saving is 127
19:02<CraKinShOt>but the last check in Afterload.cpp has "if (CheckSavegameVersion(128))"
19:03<+glx>yes added stuff not requiring a bump
19:03<+glx>or something like that
19:03<CraKinShOt>I see.
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19:11<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r17596 /trunk/src/ (36 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: constify some tables
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19:17<CraKinShOt>okay thats done
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19:38<Eddi|zuHause>CraKinShOt: afterload only deals with stuff that needs special attention, many savegame bumps do not need that, as they only change some variables
19:41<CraKinShOt>well I've add (and tested it). It wiped the signalex bits from an earlier test save
19:42<CraKinShOt>I've put a @todo for something to check if its actually need.
19:42<CraKinShOt>(getting late, lol)
19:53<CraKinShOt>Thanks for the input yexo, think I've covered what you suggested and uploaded. Bit late so very WIP.
19:54<CraKinShOt>I'll add on the signal removal tomorrow and I think that'll cover the basics, until something actually uses it. :P
20:01<Terkhen>good night
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20:31<nicfer>hey Zuu, I've tried to run your openttd auto updater under wine for updating windows versions of openttd (which I'll also run over wine) and it tells me an error about some XML file
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>wine commonly has XML problems, usually needs native msxml3.dll
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21:12<PeterT>could someone be so kind as to try the wiki for me? It doesn't seem to work for me
21:12<PeterT>timeout errors
21:14<TinoDidriksen>Loads for me
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21:16<PeteT>ok, it's working now
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21:17<PeterT>can i add the "reconnect" console command to the wiki page about the console?
21:17<TinoDidriksen>It's a wiki...
21:18<PeterT>what I meant was...
21:18<PeterT>it's not in stable yet
21:18<PeterT>people might get the wrong Idea
21:19<TinoDidriksen>So put a note about which revision it's in.
21:20<PeterT>got it
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21:28<PeterT>how's that?
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 21 00:00:52 2009