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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-25

---Logopened Fri Sep 25 00:00:02 2009
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02:22<YoG_>Hi, I'm trying to compile (natively) arm version of cargodest, when the compilation process reach "routing.cpp" the memory usage jumps to 90%, the device starts to swap like crazy and nothing happens - I waited about an hour and a half, it didn't finish compiling it... can anyone point me in the right direction?
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02:55<Terkhen>good morning
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03:33<@Rubidium>YoG_: not really, it uses lots of memory on other systems too. But it kept swapping like crazy? Then at least it was doing something :)
03:33<@Rubidium>you might want to try another version of your compiler though
03:33<@Rubidium>or another version of boost
03:34<YoG_>Rubidium: :-) patiance is a virtue, I tried it again today and eventually it resumed...
03:34<YoG_>thanks
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05:32<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17633 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3233]: [NewGRF] Crash when trying to build an industry that has no industry layout defined.
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09:14<@Belugas>hey
09:14<crakinshot>lo
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09:27<welshdragon>crakinshot: how's things?
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09:30<crakinshot>not bad... someone asked for train composition in depo's so I'm having a look into it
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09:32<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid you're picking on too many projects at once
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09:33<crakinshot>hehe, yeah I also need a GRF template to add on a new sound so I can have the "chidy-chik" sound when trains move over a tile
09:34<crakinshot>well that extended signals is pretty much done. But without anything to use them, no point in cleaning it up yet.
09:35<crakinshot>and all my other ideas are ultimately coming down to having to use LR PBS. :/
09:35<crakinshot>so those will have to wait
09:35<crakinshot>I've got platform definitions, but was looking at the ordering system
09:36<crakinshot>while I'm here might as well add on depo wagon order as well I guess
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09:39<welshdragon>crakinshot: can you eventually make a build with all your patches in>
09:39<Ammler>what't LR PBS? (long reserve?)
09:41<crakinshot>yeah, basically the multi-aspect signals and realistic deceleration will need long reserve PBS
09:43<Ammler>but there are some patches with that, aren't there?
09:43<crakinshot>yeah, but its whether it'll be used in the trunk. I'm not entirely sure I like LR PBS yet, it adds on 2 signal types
09:44<Ammler>well, those 2 patches I know, fail if there are 2 trains in row of the lr line
09:47<Ammler>why don't you not continue there, instead of wait until someone will finish those patches?
09:48<crakinshot>maybe, to be honest I'm letting all the ideas sort themselves in my head
09:48<crakinshot>it'll get back to me in a few days
09:49<crakinshot>I'm probably leaning toward doing it myself and adding on reserve extentions
09:49<crakinshot>just for my signal type
09:50<crakinshot>I don't know, need to set a clear objective and choose a start which will allow doing other things
09:50<crakinshot>so its not just a hack
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10:01<crakinshot>See what I'm thinking if you have a MAS signal, which basically tries to reserve 3 segments ahead. if it can't it sets a lower warning on the signal and the train moves more slowly.
10:02<crakinshot>then on some signals you don't want them to allow longer reservations, so you'd make it SignalEx and set a flag to stop that
10:02<crakinshot>rather than have a completely different signal type
10:03<crakinshot>the ratational for using the extended signal pool item is that the usual place you want to limit long reservations is a junction home signal
10:04<crakinshot>and those are the signals you'd most likely want to use other extensions on (programmable signals)
10:04<crakinshot>so its coming together slowly
10:20<crakinshot>Then with yapf pathfinder, when it creates the general path to take, it checks to see the segment is allowed to be extended further and stores that in the cache
10:20<crakinshot>I really need to take a long look at yapf
10:21<crakinshot>an idea that comes to mind is how the cache is maintained. My understanding is it finds a path then caches it, if that path is no longer valid is ditches the path and tries to make a completely new one
10:22<crakinshot>rather than ditch it completely you try to find a new path, but once you come back to the originally cached path you stop.
10:23<crakinshot>but I don't know if this is the way its done already. hehe
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11:45<YoG_>Hi, I'd like to compile the most recent CargoDest, how do I get it? ( I used "hg clone http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/ cargodest-celestar" is that the most recent one?)
11:48<+glx>that's the most recent
11:49<+glx>and quite outdated
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11:49<KingJ>CargoDist is what you want now
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11:50<YoG_>KingJ: thanx
11:51<YoG_>I'll check CargoDist
11:51<@Belugas>isn't it CargoDust now?
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11:51<@Belugas>or are we just at CargoDost ?
11:52<Alberth>CargoD[a-z]st to be at the safe side
11:54<welshdragon>CargoD∞st
11:54<YoG_>why was cargodust been abandoned?
11:54<YoG_>lol
11:54<welshdragon>YoG_: as it was unstable
11:59<+glx>and not very clean :)
12:02<YoG_>what version of openttd I'll get by doing "git clone http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git"? (from the cargodist wiki)
12:02<TrueBrain>a yellow one!
12:02<YoG_>is the yellow one the latest?
12:03<TrueBrain>no, for that you need the purple
12:03*TrueBrain goes sit under a rock now :)
12:06*Alberth brings cookies and a drink to TrueBrain
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12:06<TrueBrain>thank you
12:06<TrueBrain>! :)
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17634 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 6 changes by Gavin
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 8 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: romanian - 49 changes by kkmic
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 51 changes by Madvin
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14:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17635 /trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the chat gui nested
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15:36<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17636 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the difficulty setting window nested
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15:43<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17637 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move the game difficulty window's window/widget description below the window class
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16:33<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:33<andythenorth>evening
16:34<Nite_Owl>Hello andythenorth
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16:38<andythenorth>anyone got a clue which version of OpenTTD for Windows I should try with Crossover Mac?
16:38<@Rubidium>win32
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16:39<andythenorth>ta
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>what does "ta" mean anyway?
16:40<andythenorth>wondered if you'd ask that.
16:40<Prof_Frink>It's short for "ta muchly"
16:40<andythenorth>just means thanks, in (northern) English
16:40<Nite_Owl>tanks
16:40<andythenorth>(British) English
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16:42<planetmaker>you'll surely loose a lot performance, andythenorth
16:42<planetmaker>and hello :-)
16:42<andythenorth>planetmaker: I need to know if it's an option
16:42<planetmaker>:-)
16:43<planetmaker>I just recall when I was (still) making the grfs using win under parallels desktop
16:43<planetmaker>not fun
16:43<YoG_>Hi, I've compiled OpenTTD with cargodist, but it seems that it doesn't work, all I get is "x passengers via any station" "x passengers to any station", do I have to switch something on?
16:43<andythenorth>planetmaker: if there's no Mac maintainer...what choices are there?
16:44<planetmaker>compile yourself on mac?
16:44<andythenorth>....one day compiling myself is going to break due to some library issue I don't understand
16:44<@Belugas>[16:40] <Nite_Owl> tanks <-- war pig
16:44<andythenorth>if current devs can't sanely maintain a mac port, I have zero chance
16:44<planetmaker>If it works now, chances are that it continues to work
16:45<planetmaker>library dependencies only change very slowly.
16:45<planetmaker>Luckily :-)
16:45<Nite_Owl>War Pig was a great song
16:45<planetmaker>andythenorth: your advantage though is: you have a mac. None of the devs has.
16:45<planetmaker>it's a huge advantage if it comes to make adjustments in order to make it work
16:45<planetmaker>*making
16:46<Nite_Owl>Ozzie before he bit the bat
16:46<@Belugas>yeah :D
16:47<@Belugas>loved to play it
16:47<@Belugas>not an easy one, but a fun one
16:47<andythenorth>planetmaker: Macs I can supply. Got loads.
16:47<planetmaker>andythenorth: then please do!
16:47<@Belugas>beer you can supply?
16:47<@Belugas>Up the IRONS!
16:47<planetmaker>andythenorth: also got an xserve?
16:47<Prof_Frink>00:1b:77:6f:ff:9c
16:48<planetmaker>e.g. a mac server 24/7?
16:48<Nite_Owl>Actually I think it was plural - War Pigs
16:48<planetmaker>where there'd be a free account?
16:48<andythenorth>Belugas: Beer I am drinking. I have 3 spare. But I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic no?
16:48<Prof_Frink>Nite_Owl: That's what the id3 says here.
16:48<andythenorth>Unless you have tanks and a wetsuit and are prepared to swim
16:48<planetmaker>andythenorth: I'd say no.
16:49<Nite_Owl>Either way a great song on a great album
16:49<planetmaker>oh. nvm
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'd say you're on the right side, but you people have trouble with right and not right anyway... :p
16:49<@Belugas>yup, Nite_Owl
16:49<planetmaker>haha @ Eddi
16:49<Nite_Owl>Iron Man was on that album too
16:50<andythenorth>planetmaker: why is Xserve needed? I missed that part in the thread
16:50<@Belugas>almost all the big hits
16:50<planetmaker>andythenorth: so... could you supply a dev with a (personal) mac?
16:50<andythenorth>planetmaker: yup np
16:50<planetmaker>concerning xserve: for the compile farm in order to build the nightlies
16:51<planetmaker>andythenorth: then please do supply that. Dunno whom of them would want it, though :-)
16:51<andythenorth>probably a G4 mac mini, G5 imac, G4 emac. intel is harder (we use those)
16:51<andythenorth>but there might be an intel machine spare somewhere
16:51<planetmaker>well... tests the PPC part and endian things :-)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>but PPC and endian are not the main problems
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>the main problems are 10.5 and 10.6 support
16:54<planetmaker>yes, they aren't
16:54<planetmaker>but 10.5 runs also on PPC.
16:54<planetmaker>10.6 doesn't.
16:55<planetmaker>but for the sake of simplicity 10.6 might be the choice, if given
16:56<planetmaker>if something has to be sacrificed it might rather be ppc and 10.3 support than 10.5+
16:58<andythenorth>ooh...OpenTTD Win has an installer :P
16:58<andythenorth>unexpected!
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>:)
16:59<planetmaker>he :-)
17:00<@Rubidium>andythenorth: you don't need to use the installer ;)
17:00<andythenorth>Rubidium: why not?
17:01<@Rubidium>the same reason you don't need an installer for OSX
17:02<welshdragon>Regarding OpenTTD and 10.6, until a developer can be found, recommend using VMWare Fusion, and running a WInXP VM
17:02<andythenorth>Rubidium: I think you're overlooking that I have *no* idea where to put an app for Windows (including the crazy Crossover filesystem)
17:02<andythenorth>welshdragon: means I have to pay the windows tax
17:02<andythenorth>why not get a linux vm in that case?
17:02<welshdragon>true
17:02<planetmaker>andythenorth: OpenTTD does not need installation. On any system
17:03<welshdragon>but isn't getting Linux to run on Macs generally more difficult, andythenorth?
17:03<andythenorth>with a VM?
17:03<welshdragon>I've not tried it
17:03<andythenorth>pretty trivial in my experience. Download a packaged vm from vmware, run
17:03<andythenorth>Then get utterly confused by Linux
17:04-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@51.139.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
17:04<welshdragon>as there is no description of VMWare on the ubuntu wiki
17:05<planetmaker>reason might be that it's a proprietary programme...
17:05<Prof_Frink>virtualbox?
17:06<planetmaker>is not vmware ;-)
17:06<andythenorth>welshdragon: http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/cat/508
17:07<Prof_Frink>*buntu works fine in it though.
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17:07<andythenorth>Crossover can't find sample.cat - cluestick (I'm off to the wiki, but you guys might know the answer faster)
17:08<@Rubidium>where did you put sample.cat? in the data directory?
17:08<Prof_Frink>TTD datafile.
17:08<andythenorth>Rubidium: yes, in data, that's why I'm confused
17:08<andythenorth>it's there
17:08<planetmaker>andythenorth: if it's simulating windows, it might look in c:\own files\...
17:08<planetmaker>or alike
17:08<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17638 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3235]: Crash when trying to build an industry that has no industry layout defined; yes, it's very similar to r17633 because one case was forgotten.
17:09<andythenorth>it didn't like my alias to my mac 'data' dir
17:09<andythenorth>I'm now looking at the start screen
17:09<andythenorth>(of OpenTTD)
17:10<andythenorth>newgrfs are there
17:10<andythenorth>default TTD graphics are missing - OpenGFX only
17:10<planetmaker>:-)
17:10<andythenorth>drag-resize window didn't cause any fail to happen
17:10<andythenorth>can't load a mac save game file
17:11<@Rubidium>probably a permissions issue
17:11<andythenorth>oops nvm save game issue, made with a recent nightly
17:11<andythenorth>I'm trying 0.7.2
17:11<planetmaker>:-D
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17:12<YoG_>Hi, I've compiled OpenTTD with cargodist, but it seems that it doesn't work, all I get is "x passengers via any station" "x passengers to any station", do I have to switch something on?
17:13<andythenorth>hmm panning the viewport isn't working as expected
17:13<andythenorth>how do you normally pan the viewport in windows?
17:13<welshdragon>YoG_: check under advanced settings
17:13<welshdragon>andythenorth: with arrow keys :P
17:14<YoG_>welshdragon: thanks, under "Link graph" passengers are set to "symmetric", is there anything else I should do?
17:14<welshdragon>YoG_: no idea
17:14<welshdragon>experiment
17:15<@Belugas>runnning fucking rght now to fucking home
17:16<@Belugas>fuck you vry much
17:16<@Belugas>bye bye
17:16<Alberth>bye Belugas
17:16<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:16<andythenorth>bye Belugas
17:16<Muxy>Goulp Kiss Belugas
17:17<@Belugas>Rock on guys!
17:17*Belugas is gone
17:17<welshdragon>moody Belugas
17:17<welshdragon>bye!
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>fuck bye?
17:17<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
17:19<andythenorth>loading a save game works on Crossover
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17:19<Yexo>good evening
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17:21<andythenorth>hmm. So Crossover looks promising. But I want original graphics back! Much as I love OpenGFX...
17:21<andythenorth>the TTD original files are in /data
17:21<planetmaker>bye Belugas, hello Yexo
17:22<Yexo>andythenorth: and the correct obg file?
17:22<Yexo>YoG_: you might have more success on the forum in the cargodist topic
17:23<andythenorth>Yexo: which obg file do I need?
17:23<Yexo>original_win / original_dos I think
17:23<planetmaker>Yexo: for the original data?
17:23<planetmaker>interesting. Never seen them :-)
17:24<YoG_>Yexo: Thanks, I'll try there, just thought I'll get a quicker answer here
17:24<Nite_Owl>opening screen selection
17:24<Yexo>mostly you get a faster answer here, but when you're using a patch it can be tricky
17:25<andythenorth>Yexo: I've never had an obg file for Mac OpenTTD...unless I've forgotten it
17:25<Yexo>andythenorth: you most certainly have, or you woudn't have the graphics
17:25<andythenorth>yup, I've forgotten it
17:25<Yexo>but it coudl be in the data directory in your installation directory?
17:25<@Rubidium>(which is quite well hidden for OSX)
17:26<andythenorth>I have lots of obg files, but they are all in my svn checkout of openttd, not in my path for the actual mac app
17:28<andythenorth>now I need openttdw.grf :|
17:28<andythenorth>also in my svn checkout :)
17:28<Yexo>and also installed somewhere
17:28<@Rubidium>that is *also* in the windows install zip
17:28<andythenorth>oh, bye bye Crossover :( it quite
17:28<andythenorth>quit
17:28<@Rubidium>and *also* in the OSX bundle you download from the website
17:29<planetmaker>try paralles :-P with a real win install
17:29<andythenorth>ok they'll be in the package then :)
17:29<andythenorth>makes sense
17:29<planetmaker>and talk Rubidium into wanting your mac ;-)
17:30<@Rubidium>sorry, but I was forbidden from using Macs ~10 years ago
17:30<andythenorth>"this is the data dir you are looking for"
17:30<andythenorth>yay, original graphics, improved start screen
17:30<planetmaker>haha @ Rubidium ;-)
17:31<andythenorth>And I've found how to mouse-scroll, ahem, it's an advanced option (embarassed)
17:31<@Rubidium>could be that (randomly-ish) OpenGFX is prefered to the original graphics in a clean install (because it finds it earlier or so)
17:31<andythenorth>Right, smells like OpenTTD, looks like OpenTTD...
17:31<andythenorth>only differences to regular mac openttd are:
17:31<andythenorth>1. x11 icon in the menu bar
17:32<andythenorth>2. crazy file system in save / load
17:32<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I'm serious :) I crashed a macbook so thoroughly that the only way to reset it was removing the battery and power connector. No other tricks to restart, like the on/off button etc worked
17:32<andythenorth>Oh, and I have no idea how I'd patch then compile for win on a mac, but that's a problem for later
17:34*Rubidium neither :)
17:36<andythenorth>not noticeably slow via Crossover
17:36<andythenorth>arrrgghhh but the mouse-scroll is inverted :(
17:36<planetmaker>Rubidium: sounds interesting ;-)
17:37<andythenorth>fixed mouse scroll :D
17:37<planetmaker>but you might do with "yours" then whatever you see fit :-P
17:39<andythenorth>Crossover looks like a solution for mac users
17:40<andythenorth>which cheers me up
17:40<@Rubidium>no, it's no solution
17:40<@Rubidium>it's a work around
17:40<andythenorth>Well I'd temporarily lost interest in my newgrf projects. seemed no point continuing. Crossover makes it worthwhile again...
17:40<@Rubidium>andythenorth: if you select French, does the font change?
17:41<andythenorth>Rubidium: no, I get an error: FreeType reported error 0x1
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17:42<andythenorth>Actually several errors. Clicking ok on the dialogs made them go away...
17:42<andythenorth>Font did change though
17:42<andythenorth>Let me try the full error
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17:43<@Rubidium>nah, probably some API that crossover still misses
17:43<andythenorth>Unable to use Arial for small font. FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
17:43<andythenorth>same for medium + large
17:43<@Rubidium>not very odd because it's something font related which Apple doesn't seem to have implemented in a manner that is easily useful for crossover/wine
17:43<andythenorth>ok
17:44<planetmaker>:-D
17:44<@Rubidium>so crossover is useless for all languages that have non-standard-gfx characters
17:45<planetmaker>that probably depends upon which language OSX is installed in.
17:45<planetmaker>like, I can only type chinese, if I actually activate the chinese input methods
17:45<planetmaker>like on any OS
17:46<planetmaker>大理石可靠扩大
17:46<planetmaker>but it works :-P - no idea what I typed, though ;-)
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17:47<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you're doing that in crossover?
17:47<planetmaker>nope.
17:47<@Rubidium>and normal OSX did autodetect a proper font?
17:48<planetmaker>Nor did I claim to do so. My point was: crossover might find it easier, if this was, though, activated in OSX.
17:48<planetmaker>And no, my OSX doesn't come up with a good font for chinese
17:48<@Rubidium>(that I already knew cause it isn't implemented)
17:48<planetmaker>but it's not principle problem to type chinese on native mac
17:49<planetmaker>I just switch the input method and type away
17:49<@Rubidium>Windows does come with a font, but in crossover/wine it apparantly doesn't really work
17:49<planetmaker>that should work natively since mac 10.3 latest
17:49-!-asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit []
17:51<planetmaker>maybe I should dig again into the fonts now I learnt a bit more about the APIs...
17:51<@Rubidium>by the way, was I even talking about input?
17:51<@Rubidium>(just trying to understand why you came up with that topic)
17:52<planetmaker>nope. But obviously for chinese characters it needs a different font than for these latin ones.
17:52<planetmaker>so there's automatically some choice made
17:54<planetmaker>so basically I agree: it's crossover failing there probably
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18:02<planetmaker>btw... couldn't some easy things where patches exist not be actually commited? Like http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3205 ?
18:04<@Rubidium>they could be, but not by me
18:04<planetmaker>so you actively want to have it decay?
18:05<@Rubidium>no, I've had it with stab-in-the-black fixes that some people report success for that then break for much more people
18:06<@Rubidium>as such I won't commit stuff I can't test/haven't tested anymore
18:07<@Rubidium>'cause I can't verify whether it makes it actually better or just accidentally fixes it for a single person
18:07<@Rubidium>if someone else wants to burn his fingers on it, that's fine by me
18:09<planetmaker>e.g. 3205 is not mac specific. It's endian specific
18:09*Rubidium just committed too much OSX related stuff over time that broke more than it actually fixes because he couldn't test it
18:10<planetmaker>blame me if it brakes
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18:10<planetmaker>*breaks
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18:23<Terkhen>good night
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18:36<Nite_Owl>feeding time - later all
18:36<@Rubidium>good luck making owl balls :)
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18:54<andythenorth>right I've defeated the css. Today was code soup: python, jQuery, css, html, tal. Time for bed
18:54<andythenorth>good night
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18:57<welshdragon>http://xkcd.com/391/ < yay
19:12<davis>xkcd<3
19:12<davis>even my gf likes xkcd.
19:12<davis>:D
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20:08<CraKinShOt>evening dudes. :D
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20:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so apparently my attention span for projects is two and a half days
20:36<FauxFaux>Envy.
20:55<Pikka>sounds about right, Eddi
20:58<CraKinShOt>all the more incentive to make sure they are small. :D
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21:01<Eddi|zuHause>why does the forum go into backup mode in the exact instance i press "submit"?
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 26 00:00:04 2009