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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-09-29

---Logopened Tue Sep 29 00:00:13 2009
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02:39<dihedral>hello
02:42-!-Terkhen [~terkhen@150.214.220.100] has joined #openttd
02:46<Terkhen>good morning
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02:49<dihedral>hey Terkhen how's your patch pack coming along?
02:52<Terkhen>it is stopped right now, I spend all of my "OpenTTD time" with my patches and I have almost no time to play
02:54<dihedral>hehe
02:54<dihedral>i have not played in a long time either!
02:57<Terkhen>I don't think I will be playing much, I will be very busy in rl this year
03:06<dihedral>rl? whats that :-P
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03:12<Terkhen>real life, but I think the sentence wasn't correctly written anyways :P
03:14<dihedral>i know what rl stands for ^^
03:14<Terkhen>ah xD
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07:17<dihedral>@seen planetmaker
07:17<@DorpsGek>dihedral: planetmaker was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it's in the line of "first search, then post"
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>what a bad highlight...
07:18<dihedral>:-D
07:18<dihedral>sorry for that
07:18<Xaroth>:o
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07:23<crakinshot>anyone going to vis09
07:23<crakinshot>?
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07:51<stinkyfax_>where can i find MB's cargoset?
07:52<dihedral>google?
07:52<stinkyfax_>much talk about it but i can't find it anywhere
07:52<dihedral>you mean something like ECS?
07:53<stinkyfax_>"warning: If used together with MB's cargoset,"
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07:53<stinkyfax_>what MB's cargoset means?
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07:58<markk>Is Ludvig Strigeus one of the creators of OpenTTD?
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>not "one of"... "THE"
07:59<markk>ah :)
07:59<markk>nice
07:59<markk>Didn't know it was a swede who created it
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>stinkyfax_: it's a newgrf called "cargoset" created by "MB"
07:59<blathijs>markk: He did stop working on it years back, though
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>stinkyfax_: and it's heavily outdated
08:00<markk>blathijs: mkay, that's sad
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>markk: it's not sad. people like him need a new project every once in a while, before they get bored
08:01<blathijs>It's fortunate there have been enough people to take over :-)
08:01<markk>That right thoguh :)
08:05<crakinshot>I guess that's the whole point of open source, once its going it doesn't need the original creator to maintain
08:05<markk>yea (:
08:05<crakinshot>community thing
08:14<stinkyfax_>can smbody tell me the name of newgfc with many new industries like fuel, glass..
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08:25<oskari89>Stinkyfax_: ECS Vectors etc..
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08:27<+glx>stinkyfax_: it's newgrf, not newgfc
08:31<stinkyfax_>ok, thx
08:45-!-Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Quit: leaving]
08:45<stinkyfax_>which newgrf has petrol stations? coz now i have petrol but no stations :D
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08:46<+glx>TTRS3
08:46<stinkyfax_>uh?
08:46<stinkyfax_>oh, thx
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>or ECSHouses
08:50<stinkyfax_>when i activate ecs town vector all industries dissapear
08:51<Coco-Banana-Man>you have to start a new game when activating ECS
08:51<dihedral>did you at all read the Readme that comes with ECS? or the website? or the forum thread?
08:55<+glx>newgrf order matters for ECS
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08:59<Ammler>little glitch with frame_freq: http://pastebin.ca/1584242
09:00<crakinshot>god help me... trying to organise train tickets in the US
09:00<Ammler> !unpause sets min_active_clients to 1 and !auto to 2
09:00<crakinshot>royal pain in the ass, the conference changed the time of my talk
09:00<crakinshot>so now I do my talk, then run for the train station. :D
09:00<+glx>train in US??? are you crazy ? ;)
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09:01<crakinshot>well I give up worrying about it... if I miss my flight I'll book another one
09:02<crakinshot>for some reason the Vis conference people decided, "lets have it in Atlantic city"
09:03<crakinshot>of course it doesn't have an international airport, so I have to go to newark...
09:03<crakinshot>could have gone to philidelphia I guess, but didn't realise that
09:04<dihedral>@monologue
09:04<dihedral>ah. not installed, what a shame
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm bored and phlegmatic, not a great combination
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09:20<@Belugas>hello
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>¡holá!
09:32-!-Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>weird... i lost a file, it is not where it used to be and i don't remember moving it
09:37<@Belugas>[09:07] <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm bored and phlegmatic, not a great combination <--- i join you in that state of mind...
09:40<De_Ghosty>hey are you running nix or window under sandbox anyone?
09:43*Belugas runs windows only
09:44*Belugas 's son uses a sandbox, but he doubts you'd be interested
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09:50<De_Ghosty>i wanna software raid :o
09:50<De_Ghosty>and window is not good at it
09:50<De_Ghosty>i wanna see if i can raid in vmware and then boot window on top
09:50<@Belugas>raid? or RAD?
09:50<De_Ghosty>raid
09:56<@Belugas>Rapid Application Integrated Development?
09:57<De_Ghosty>redundant arry of inexpensive disks
09:57<Spoons>I'd much rather have a RAED.
09:59-!-LadyHawk [LadyHawk@78-105-102-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:59<Fast2>De_Ghosty: What do you mean with "nix"?
09:59<De_Ghosty>any flavor of linux
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11:07<dihedral>would sdl be a feasable solution to the mac port?
11:07<dihedral>odamex uses it (without x11)
11:07<crakinshot>XD
11:08<dihedral>what's so funny about that?
11:08<crakinshot>I think Rubidium had a long conversation with someone on how SDL would cause so many problems
11:08<crakinshot>a few days ago
11:08<dihedral>i know the mac port for odamex uses sdl, cause i just spoke to the mac maintainer there
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: afaik you can configure to use sdl, so try it.
11:09<dihedral>k
11:09<dihedral>i will
11:09<crakinshot>maybe its in the irc log, but if i remember correctly, it originally used SDL but then had to switch because of problems
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>but a) the experience says it's very slow, and b) sdl is also not ported to 10.6 yet
11:10<@Rubidium>I've got 1 thing to say about SDL: read the fracking thread
11:10<@Rubidium>okay, actually 2 things:
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>a propos fracking... i wanted to check for galactica...
11:11<@Rubidium>13:17 <@DorpsGek> dihedral: <snip> was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <<snip>> <snip>: it's in the line of "first search, then post"
11:11<TrueBrain>dihedral: it does mean you need to instlal SDL :p Last time you tried, you gave up on that step :)
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>you people need to stop changing colours...
11:12<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I agree
11:12<crakinshot>what colours?
11:12<TrueBrain>those pretty ones
11:12<TrueBrain>pink, yellow, green
11:13<crakinshot>hmm, well I'm in mibbit; nothing showing
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>like TrueBrain used to be blue, but now he is brown
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>i blame Microsoft ;)
11:13<@Rubidium>ooh.. he must have had a nice and sunny vacation then
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11:13<TrueBrain>better?
11:13<dihedral>lol
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, very ;)
11:13<TrueBrain>(and still, it connects to USA servers :( )
11:14<TrueBrain>and TrueBrain_ was to blame :p
11:14<dihedral>TrueBrain, odamex works fine on my mac
11:14<TrueBrain>dihedral: I am just stating past experiences you had with SDL :P
11:14<dihedral>:-)
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11:17-!-Guest127 is now known as planetmaker
11:17<dihedral>well, i just walked in to #odamex to ask if their mac guy could possibly be interested in doing our mac port for some time
11:17<dihedral>and that was the info i got out of it
11:17<dihedral>that's all
11:17<TrueBrain>so install SDL :p
11:18<TrueBrain>I have another project for you to try too ;)
11:18<dihedral>pffft
11:18<dihedral>:-P
11:18<@Rubidium>anyhow, how does changing to SDL solve all problems, like 10.6 compatability?
11:18<TrueBrain>"After an eighteen month wait, Odamex has an official Mac OS X package once again! "
11:18<TrueBrain>promising :)
11:20<@Rubidium>as for what it's worth SDL doesn't compile/work on 10.6 yet (at least the stable doesn't seem to) given the number of fixes they already have done and the number of still open bugs
11:23<dihedral>10.6 aint supported by openttd either
11:23<dihedral>i was just thinking it might be worth the shot
11:23<dihedral>at least i tried getting info
11:23<TrueBrain>dihedral: now install SDL :) Please please please :)
11:23<TrueBrain>(well, unless you have 10.6 of course :p)
11:23<@Rubidium>and read the thread
11:24<@Rubidium>then tell us how to provide cross compiled binaries with SDL
11:24<@Rubidium>s/us/the victim who has to change the compile farm (that isn't me)/
11:24<TrueBrain>so that makes me :p
11:24<TrueBrain>does Odamex work on linux .. hm ..
11:24<dihedral>Rubidium, i was just trying to find anything that could possibly be of help
11:24<dihedral>that is all
11:25<dihedral>TrueBrain, afaik - yes
11:25<TrueBrain>no binaries, so it made me wonder
11:25<@Rubidium>reproposing the same idea over and over again does not help
11:25<planetmaker>moin
11:26<dihedral>it was at least pointing into a direction where it seemingly works
11:26<planetmaker>SDL will need some serious patches in order to work. At least from what I could establish
11:26<dihedral>planetmaker, grab a copy of odamex
11:26<planetmaker>I don't even know what that is :-D
11:26<dihedral>doom2
11:26<TrueBrain>brr, their code has some serious warnings :(
11:27<TrueBrain>(most 64bit related)
11:27<TrueBrain>but also: a || b && c
11:27<TrueBrain>and it takes an OpenTTD amount of time to compile :) :) :)
11:28<crakinshot>Thankfully pretty quick on my rig.
11:29<TrueBrain>dihedral: it indeed compiles (ignoring the nasty warnings :p)
11:29<TrueBrain>I think, I guess, I assume, it requires the Doom / Doom2 WAD files
11:29<TrueBrain>not that the README talks bout it for any system not Windows
11:30<TrueBrain>the README also talks about 0.3 while I donwloaded 0.4.3 ... hihi :)
11:30<dihedral>hehe
11:30<TrueBrain>$ file odamex.wad
11:30<dihedral>yes, you need the one wad file
11:30<TrueBrain>odamex.wad: doom patch PWAD data containing 195 lumps
11:30<TrueBrain>cool :)
11:34<TrueBrain>dihedral: nice project :) Too bad of the weird name :p
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12:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this is weird... i was just zapping through channels, and i landed on this channel called "2M Monde" but i can't identify the language they are speaking
12:20<Eddi|zuHause>the people in the movie look southeast asian, but the language doesn't. and it appears badly dubbed ;)
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12:22<Eddi|zuHause>judging from the writings on the advertisements, the movie might be korean
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12:27<Eddi|zuHause>aha... the channel appears to be maroccan
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>the language is possibly arabic
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13:11<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: 2M is indeed maroccan
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17664 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: esperanto - 1 changes by raskolnik
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changes by kkmic
13:49<@Belugas>heheh
13:49<@Belugas>USED TO BE DEFINED is not the same as USED, TO BE DEFINED
13:49<@Belugas>even if the later does not make snes
13:49<@Belugas>sens
13:50<SmatZ>:-)
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14:24<fjb>Why should something undefined not be in a used condition?
14:29<frosch123>lots of stuff is being used without being properly defined
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>makes up for 95% of the cultural misunderstanding ;)
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>swapoff is an awfully slow process
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15:18<_ln>ḧéĺĺó
15:19<Alberth>hello, are you sure that is an English word?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>hey... i love when small black objects drop on my dark carpet during the night
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15:38<fjb>Only drop them at day time.
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16:00<Coldfusionstorm_>"polite entrance"
16:00<Coldfusionstorm_>now
16:00<Coldfusionstorm_>how do i load in a save named 1943.sav in a dedicated server
16:00<Coldfusionstorm_>i cant load it
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>with the -g option?
16:01<PeterT>version?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>or from the console?
16:01<PeterT>he said he can't load it
16:01<PeterT>that implies that he's tried
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>afair there was a "ls" option
16:01<Yexo>just "load 1943.sav" in the query window?
16:01<Coldfusionstorm_>ive joined from client
16:01<Yexo>ah, you need to use rcon to execute commands on the server
16:02<Coldfusionstorm_>rcon pass load "1943"
16:02<Coldfusionstorm_>dosnt work
16:02<PeterT>oh,
16:02<Yexo>so something like: rcon rcon_passwd "load 1943.sav"
16:02<PeterT>no
16:02<PeterT>that never works
16:02<PeterT>find the file number using "ls"
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>Coldfusionstorm_: the whole server command must be enclosed in ""
16:02<Coldfusionstorm_>oh
16:02<Yexo>only the first word of the command is given to the server, so if you use 'rcon pass load "1943"' all the server gets is "load"
16:02<Coldfusionstorm_>i thought only the argument
16:03<PeterT>yes, it gets quite annoying
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>Coldfusionstorm_: the server command is an argument to the rcon command ;)
16:03<Coldfusionstorm_>Ah, fair use :D
16:03<Coldfusionstorm_>it almost worked now :D
16:03<PeterT>especially rcon pass "server_name ! your server"
16:04<Coldfusionstorm_>hehe ;D its private
16:04<Coldfusionstorm_>hmm
16:04<Coldfusionstorm_>still wont load it
16:04<dihedral>which folder does the save game reside in?
16:04<dihedral>relative from your config
16:05<dihedral>(assuming you know where the config file is, the game is using)
16:05<Coldfusionstorm_>oooooopsss (stupid smiley)
16:05<Coldfusionstorm_>i did know that _:D
16:05<Alberth>dihedral: save/autosave
16:06<dihedral>cd autosave
16:06<dihedral>load 1943
16:06<dihedral>cd ..
16:06<dihedral>as afaik 'load autosave/1943' does not work
16:06<Coldfusionstorm_>here goes :D
16:06<Coldfusionstorm_>no auto save
16:06<Coldfusionstorm_>its a save im moveing
16:07<dihedral>Alberth, why on earth would a file named 1943 be in autosave?
16:07<dihedral>:-P
16:07<Coldfusionstorm_>its a self save
16:07<dihedral>a self save.... i love it when people come up with new words
16:07<Alberth>earth must have saved it there :)
16:07<Coldfusionstorm_>i saved it myself
16:08<Coldfusionstorm_>processing all the bytes by myself :D
16:08<Coldfusionstorm_>XD
16:08<dihedral>put the file in the save/ subfolder next to your openttd.cfg file
16:08<Coldfusionstorm_>allready done it :D
16:08<Coldfusionstorm_>but was a wrong save xD
16:08<dihedral>pfft - you want support for that???
16:08<dihedral>you must be kidding!
16:09<dihedral>make sure that thing loads alright, else you'll start claiming that the dedicated server dies on loading a savegame
16:09<PeterT>'Search results for save - 15 results'
16:09-!-Brianetta is now known as Brianetta_laptop
16:10<dihedral>the word "Brianettop" comes to mind
16:10<Coldfusionstorm_>xD
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16:11<dihedral>Coldfusionstorm_, problem solved?
16:12-!-R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
16:14<Coldfusionstorm_>working on it :D
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16:16<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17665 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the extra viewport window nested
16:16<PeterT>more nesting!@
16:17<Xaroth>nesting be good
16:17<PeterT>nesting uses more cpu
16:18<Xaroth>I doubt the overhead is -that- significant to notice
16:18<Xaroth>compared to the pathfinder...
16:18<PeterT>yes, "1" isn't significant either
16:18<Coldfusionstorm_>hmm
16:18<Coldfusionstorm_>well
16:18<PeterT>little things will add up
16:19<Coldfusionstorm_>it dosnt load the savegames allright
16:19<PeterT>what's the problem?
16:19<PeterT>would you mind making a forum topic so we can see the savegame/screenshot?
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16:28<Coldfusionstorm_>hmmm
16:28<Coldfusionstorm_>do i change the data if i rename it?
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16:34<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17666 /trunk/os/rpm/openttd.spec: -Fix [FS#3193]: RPM spec failed for SUSE (Ammler)
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause>why is my screwdriver gone every time i am looking for it?
16:39<+glx>murphy?
16:40<+glx>you'll find it when looking for something else
16:40<@Rubidium>because if you weren't looking for it you wouldn't a) notice that it is gone or b) it wouldn't be gone
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>does murphy cover interdimensional rifts?
16:40<_ln>it's screwing with you
16:41<Brianetta>Rubidium is basically stating the anthropic principle.
16:41-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42<@Rubidium>actually, it's more like Schroedinger's cat
16:42<@Rubidium>as long as you aren't looking (i.e. open the box) you don't know that it is lost (i.e. the cat is dead)
16:42<+glx>or not
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16:46<Eddi|zuHause>so... why is the cat dead every time i look?
16:46<@Rubidium>bad luck
16:47<_ln>not dead, it's resting
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>"no animals have been hurt while programming this game"
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>i also still have not found the piece that fell to the ground
16:48<@Rubidium>true, cause when I was cooking lobstar I wasn't programming :)
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16:55<Wolfie>Hey peeps.
16:57<SmatZ>google is so slowishly slow for my search terms :-/
16:57<@Rubidium>you haven't tried googling for google, have you?
16:59-!-Wolfie [~chatzilla@92.2.208.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:03<SmatZ>I did :(
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17:07<@Rubidium>see... the internet is already falling apart
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17:12<@Rubidium>will there be any internet left at this rate?
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i should stop dropping things ;)
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>if i continue at this rate, i am out of parts to reassemble by midnight
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18:25<Terkhen>good night
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18:36<fjb>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLYGPWQ0VjY :-)
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18:50<CraKinShOt>fjb: lol
18:51<fjb>Probably the next German foreign minister.
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18:57<CraKinShOt>what was he trying to talk about? the divide between east and west?
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>did he actually state yet that he wants to get foreign minister?
18:59<@Rubidium>why would the foreign minister need to talk English? They're all translated anyways
18:59<@Rubidium>it would even add extra work for those German TV stations who have to dub it
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it's probably even better to use a professional translator than to talk sub-par heavily-accented english
19:00<fjb>What else ministry should he get?
19:01<@Rubidium>the ministry of education in English
19:01<fjb>His party will get that ministry. So he will probably that minister.
19:01<fjb>Rubidium: :-)
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19:02<Eddi|zuHause>just "because it has always been like this" doesn't mean it will happen again... he can claim whatever minister he wants to be
19:03<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: We are Germans. We don't change things that have always been like this.
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>there also were times where the foreign minister was not automatically vice chancellor
19:03<@Rubidium>none of the vice 'presidents' here are foreign minister
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>cancellor != president ;)
19:04<@Rubidium>I know
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>+h
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>we have a president, too
19:04<@Rubidium>we don't actually have a president
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>but he doesn't really do much other than sign the laws
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>he doesn't even have a proper veto right
19:05<@Rubidium>oh, prime minister might be a better word
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>only if it is "obviously anti-constitutional"
19:05<fjb>He can refuse to sign a law. But that happens not often enough.
19:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: our queen has veto right, but well... that doesn't quite happen
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>well, our president actually did refuse to sign a law
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>our minister of interiour wanted to shoot down civilian planes [after 9/11]
19:08*Rubidium wonders what other countries have a vice prime minister for 'Youth and family' (or even a minister for that topic)
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>and the president had the guts to say "are you insane?!?"
19:08<CraKinShOt>tbh I wouldn't mind a little more dictatorship from the Queen... might stop wars of aggression... :/
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>CraKinShOt: might as well start them...
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>CraKinShOt: and you guys are talking about different queens ;)
19:09<CraKinShOt>ahh lol
19:10<fjb>Same minister of interior has plans to mix police and interior intelligence.
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, he really IS insane ;)
19:11<CraKinShOt>hmm...
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>if the FDP wants to fulfil their claims about civil rights, they have to claim the department of interiour
19:12<fjb>But they will not get it.
19:12<fjb>They will get the ministry of justice.
19:12<CraKinShOt>Germany has proplems with civil rights?
19:12<fjb>Many problems.
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>all "western" countries have problems with civil rights
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>since that day where the buildings fell...
19:13<CraKinShOt>depends on what you define as a "problem"
19:13<CraKinShOt>being too liberal can be a "problem"
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>i consider people saying "we should learn from china for internet handling" a problem...
19:14<MyCatVerbs>People are actually saying that? oO
19:14<fjb>Yes. :-(
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, they actually said that
19:14<CraKinShOt>Yeah well thats a problem
19:14<fjb>People of the party which just won the election.
19:15<CraKinShOt>But in this country you can't smack you're kids anymore and now they are like monkeys running around the streets
19:15<@Rubidium>reminds me of a quote, which I can find right now, about banning cryptography because criminals use it
19:15<MyCatVerbs>fjb: Wait, you don't go by the nick "flapjackboy" anywhere do you?
19:16<MyCatVerbs>(Offtopic, but it'd be something of a coincidence if you did.)
19:16<fjb>MyCatVerbs: No.
19:16<MyCatVerbs>Nevermind then. I'll just chalk it up to there only being finitely many permutations of three characters. ^^
19:16<@Rubidium>http://www.mail-archive.com/lilypond-devel@gnu.org/msg24488.html <- there at the bottom of the post
19:17<fjb>MyCatVerbs: Which characters?
19:17<MyCatVerbs>fjb: 'f', 'j' and 'b'. :)
19:17<MyCatVerbs>The person I'm thinking of was someone I knew a while back, who used the same nick on IRC.
19:18<fjb>France banned cryptography some years ago. But they soon discovered that foreign spies easily got all their trade secrets.
19:19<fjb>MyCatVerbs: There is a long tradition of three letter acronyms.
19:19<MyCatVerbs>Oh wow. Did they really?
19:20<fjb>It was about 10 years ago.
19:20<@Rubidium>guess you were out of free two letter acronyms :)
19:20<MyCatVerbs>Oh. I suppose that it wouldn't have caused a big public outcry at that point? Not enough cypherpunks in the world yet back then.
19:21<fjb>Rubidium: Two letters are not enough. Blame my parents. :-)
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>well, in the USA, cryptography software was illegal to "export" to other countries
19:23<fjb>Even if it got imported from another country.
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>because it was treated like weapon trading
19:23<CraKinShOt>I found it funny when I bought a java book, some years ago, that it said "not to be sold in the US", simply because it had the cryptography libraries in it.
19:24<@Rubidium>they're funny in all kinds of ways
19:24<@Rubidium>though I wonder why exporting books isn't prohibited yet? They can be used as OTPs
19:24<@Rubidium>and excel sheets with financial information and indices into that OTP
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>they only very slowly admitted that the more secret you keep cryptography algorithms, the more easily they can be cracked by "subversive elements"
19:25<fjb>But why forbid anything? Just put everybody in solitary confinement.
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>like some cell phone encryptions, which had blatantly wide open loopholes
19:25<@Rubidium>that happens for the million+ or so people on their watchlist
19:26<fjb>PGP was exported printed in a book. :-)
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the export ban was only about software, not about printed material :p
19:27<@Rubidium>giant loophole :)
19:27*Rubidium doesn't quite fancy going to the US anymore
19:28*fjb neither.
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>we have a phrase over here... "Rein ins System und von innen aufmischen" [modulo dialect]
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>(along the lines of "fight the system from the inside")
19:31<@Rubidium>uhm... some systems can't be fought from the inside
19:32<@Rubidium>e.g. US border stuff
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19:32<Eddi|zuHause>plus there is this cool article on the USA Erklärt blog, "the safest place from the reach of the US President [Bush at that time] is INSIDE the US, because the President has almost no interiour power
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19:33<Eddi|zuHause>(they don't even have a secretary of interiour)
19:34<@Rubidium>just airports, school, governmental buildings and such aren't quite INSIDE the US then
19:34<fjb>Its the new office of homeland security.
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19:36<@Rubidium>the enormous insanity with all those checkpoints, metal detectors and such
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, if people carrying weapons is a daily sight, weapon detectors at sensitive places must also be...
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>that's just a logical consequence of having liberal weapon laws (which, btw. are usually local laws, not federal and often not even state laws)
19:38<@Rubidium>"The US Senate has voted to allow passengers on Amtrak trains to transport handguns"
19:39*fjb would only allow water guns.
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>amtrak is a federal institution
19:39<@Rubidium>"Americans should not have their Second Amendment rights restricted for any reason, particularly if they choose to travel on America's federally subsidised rail line," said Republican Sen. Roger Wicker, who submitted the proposal.
19:39<@Rubidium>but *why* are they forbidden in federal buildings?
19:39<fjb>Amtrak is emulation of planes on rails.
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember ever having been in a federal building
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>i only remember standing in front of the FBI building, and that was pre-9/11
19:40*Rubidium has been in some federal/state buildings
19:41<@Rubidium>post-9/11
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>i should have demanded entrance, because i am "J. Edgar" ;)
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>(i do have the ID card to prove that :p)
19:42<fjb>You may become a hoover craft by eating too many onions.
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19:49<@Rubidium>must say that (one of) the j.root servers is a quite boring machine
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what you're talking about
19:51<@Rubidium>DNS root servers
19:51-!-Guest191 [~KenjiE20@92.21.133.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:51<fjb>DNS is kind of boring.
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>so, why would a DNS root server be "interesting"? isn't DNS designed to run on minimal ressources?
19:53<@Rubidium>still, lots of requests and such
19:53-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.98.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:54<fjb>And added encryption.
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19:56*Rubidium is kind of bored now :(
19:58<fjb>Apropos civil rights, http://retroshare.sourceforge.net/ looks interesting.
19:59<@Rubidium>even the german tt forum isn't interested :(
20:00<@Rubidium>still no counter reaction on mb for blaming us to spend too much time on NoAI after 0.7.3-RC2 which had more NewGRF related fixes...
20:01-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:01*Rubidium still wonders what gets released first: a new TTDP, a new DBXL or Duke Nukem (I fear it's going to be the last one)
20:02<fjb>The German forum is almost never interesting.
20:02<fjb>I bet on Duke Nukem.
20:03<@Rubidium>nah, the noob bashing sometimes is, although most of the time the people who react on noobs don't know the correct answer either
20:03<fjb>There is work on a new German rail set. But mb claimed some of their sprites are looking like his.
20:04<@Rubidium>ofcourse they are looking like his...
20:04<fjb>Most people knowing the correct answer get bashed on the German forum.
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>their counter-claim was exactly that. there are only so many realistic-looking pixel combinations :p
20:05<@Rubidium>look... that TTD scaled 8 bits per pixel side view of a ICE-TD looks like my side view of a ICE-TD
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, it was about steam engines, which could allow for rather significant alterations
20:06<@Rubidium>like... drawing an ICE-TD that doesn't look like an ICE-TD seems kinda stupid to me
20:06<fjb>But the is mb. I guess he will fight any other German rail set.
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>well, the easiest way to torped that would be to start an east german rail set, which he claimed to not want to start ;)
20:07<fjb>But he has an east German locomotive in his set.
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>two
20:08<fjb>I tried draving a locomotive some months ago. But I could nor make it look right. So I gave up.
20:08<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Two?
20:08<fjb>Ah, yes, you are right.
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>the DB BR 232 (ex DR BR 132) and the DB BR 155 (ex DR BR 250)
20:09<fjb>And the 112.
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but that was not really a DR engine, it came out after the reunification, afaik
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>based on an east german development
20:10<fjb>It was earlier, but only one prototype.
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20:10<Eddi|zuHause>also, he is replacing the 112 by the 143
20:11<fjb>The 143 was the series which was developed from the 112 prototype.
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>the 143 is the engine most commonly in use around here
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>but there are plenty of east german engines that he does not have ;)
20:12<fjb>He opted for the the prototypes an overpowered engines in the released set. but he missed some of the most important eniges.
20:13*Rubidium wonders whether my imagination that trains run faster in east Germany than in west Germany is actually true
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>that depends on what facts you imagination is built upon
20:14<fjb>Usually thy ran slower.
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>there is no 350km/h high speed line in east germany
20:15<@Rubidium>same train from Berlin to Amsterdam (only travelled from Berlin Spandau till Hengelo though)
20:15-!-Morloth [~bram@93-125-129-221.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:15<fjb>When was that?
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>which way does that go? Magdeburg, Braunschweig, Hannover?
20:16<@Rubidium>a few weeks before the WM (WC?) in Germany
20:16<fjb>Maybe the eastern German part of the line was new.
20:16<PeterT>I have successfully patched the 'watch' cmd and Bilbo's multiplayer patchpack *celebrates*
20:17-!-Zorn [~zorn@e177237090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:18<@Rubidium>basically Stendal, Hannover, Osnabruck
20:18<@Rubidium>http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/traininfo.exe/dn/721734/401742/17048/232054/80?ld=212.144&seqnr=4&ident=72.04451144.1254269819&date=30.09.09&station_evaId=8010404&station_type=dep¤tReferrer=tp&rt=1&
20:19<@Rubidium>hmm... .exe in the URL
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20:20<fjb>Then the eastern Germen part of the track is newer than the western German part. So the trains may go faster there.
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>aha... that's further north than i thought
20:21<@Rubidium>must say that buying a ticket at the counter took ages
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>you can buy a ticket on the automat, but that is less likely to get you the optimal price ;)
20:22<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but it doesn't tell me where the Netherlands starts
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>they ran a few tests, and buying at a 3rd party travel office is likely to get you the cheapest price ;)
20:23<@Rubidium>e.g. useful information when you have a free rail travel in the NL pass
20:24<@Rubidium>so they told me I only needed a ticket till Bad Bentheim
20:26<@Rubidium>so far my train travelling in Germany
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>i can't say that i ever travelled in that direction
20:38<@Rubidium>can't blame you; most of the travellers seem to be students that go Berlin <-> Amsterdam
20:38-!-Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-93-28.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
20:39<@Rubidium>esp. monday mornings the train is full of students going on a school trip to Germany
20:39<@Rubidium>yes, I took that train a lot, but only within the NL
20:40<@Rubidium>*need* sleep :(
20:41<fjb>AOL
20:44-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I'm off]
20:45<@Rubidium>what?
20:47<fjb>Short for "me too!".
20:48<fjb>AOL users were known for spamming the usenet and mailing lists with messages only containing the words "me too".
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>I Agree.
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21:10<fjb>Oh, Marianne Faithfull got old.
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21:25<Eddi|zuHause>who was that.
21:27<Eddi|zuHause>kdm[2444]: X server for display :0 terminated unexpectedly
21:27<fjb>A British singer, started her career in the 60s. She has a remarkable voice.
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21:50<Pikka>how rare
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21:55<fjb>Eddi's error message?
21:58<Pikka>not necessarily
21:59<fjb>What else is rare?
22:00<Pikka>not much
22:00<Pikka>that's why it's rare
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>so rare things are rare
22:04<Pikka>pretty much!
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22:07<Eddi|zuHause>so, what does bring you out here at this time
22:09<Pikka>who, me? I'm frequently in here at this time...
22:37*Rubidium is also frequently in here at this time, only not awake :(
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 30 00:00:23 2009