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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-08

---Logopened Thu Oct 08 00:00:52 2009
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01:44<Pikka>huzzah, I made OTTD asplode
01:48<Pikka>I think it may be that it objects to vehicles with no weight :o
01:49<Eddi|zuHause>a missing sanity check is clearly a bug
01:50<Pikka>yes, 0 weight was indeed the problem
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01:50*Prof_Frink checks for sanity... none found.
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02:30<andythenorth>mmm hmmm
02:33<Pikka>I see
02:34<Pikka>train lengths < 3/8 don't work in the stable...
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02:38<Pikka>oh well... makes the coding easier, even if the end result is slightly off. :)
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03:22<Terkhen>good morning
03:23<andythenorth>morning Terkhen
03:23<andythenorth>new acceleration patch :)
03:25<Terkhen>not many new features for road vehicles... and I hope that there are not new bugs either
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03:29<andythenorth>I'll compile and test soon
03:30<Terkhen>great, thanks :)
03:30<Terkhen>I'll have to make more testing soon too
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04:36<Pikka>here's a fun-time bug
04:36<Pikka>callback 36 for cargo capacity (prop 14) only works if the train vehicle is carrying its original cargo type
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04:43<Sacro>sigh, this lecture is so boring
04:43*Sacro just wants to get on and build a compiler
04:46<dihedral>if you have a computer infront of you Sacro... then nothing should stop you &&
04:46<FauxFaux>Our compiler module had no practical stuff in at all.
04:46<dihedral>if you need an editor, have a look at mozilla's bespin project ;-)
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05:56<Yexo><Pikka> callback 36 for cargo capacity (prop 14) only works if the train vehicle is carrying its original cargo type <- indeed, that's what the code tells me too
05:57<Muxy>Hi Yexo. i have fix my stuff
05:57<Yexo> /* Set cargo capacity if we've not been refitted */ <- with that comment
05:57<Yexo>Muxy: great (although I can't really remember what it was about, sorry)
05:57<TrueBrain>dihedral: "coming soon!"
05:58<TrueBrain>dihedral: sounds not that useful
05:58<Pikkaa>yexo: why? :P
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05:59<Yexo>no idea
05:59<dihedral>you can register, and use it online
05:59<TrueBrain>dihedral: read: "coming soon!" at the most important place
06:00<dihedral>odd, i can login (and could for like a year now)
06:00<dihedral>and use what they have online
06:00<TrueBrain>you can't read :(
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06:00<dihedral>the online version is 0.4.4
06:01<dihedral>i see no coming soon, that must be the text on the mozilla labs page
06:01<Pikka>yexo, fancy changing it? :P alternatively, who coded it in the first place, and why did they make it only apply to unrefitted vehicles (I think I know the answer to that already, though)?
06:01<dihedral>oh that one
06:01<dihedral>you silly!!
06:01<TrueBrain>you need glasses
06:01<TrueBrain>big time
06:01<Yexo>Pikka: that's what I'm trying to found out now
06:01<dihedral>that part is for a new feature
06:01<dihedral>you can still, inside bespin, tell it to checkout openttd :-)
06:01<TrueBrain>REALLY?! But as I said: the most important one
06:02<dihedral>that aint the most important one
06:02<TrueBrain>because I say so .. dah
06:02<Muxy>yexo: wax a link problem
06:02<TrueBrain>the dir-browser is a bit ... annoying
06:02<Yexo>ah, that one :)
06:02<dihedral>yep, that is true
06:02<TrueBrain>click on open file, enter to really open it
06:02<dihedral>however, one does not need that one feature to work on a project
06:04<Yexo>Pikka: it was changed in r9875
06:04<Yexo>@commit 9875
06:04<@DorpsGek>Yexo: Commit by peter1138 :: r9875 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2007-05-19 10:29:51 UTC)
06:04<@DorpsGek>Yexo: -Fix (r9828): Only set carriage capacity if the wagon has not been refitted.
06:05<Yexo>r9828 was the revision cb36 was first called for carriage capacity
06:06<Pikka>I guess that was to stop cb 15 being automatically overriden by cb36 setting the default... :o
06:06<Yexo>that doesn't tell me why it behaves like this
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06:07<Yexo>that is most likely the reason yes
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06:07<Pikka>how about using 36 for the refitted capacity if the bit for cb 15 is not set in property 1E?
06:08<Yexo>I'm not going to change that
06:08<Yexo>maybe frosch will
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06:10<Pikka>maybe Belugas will!
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06:44<Pikka>maybe Belugas won't...
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07:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17744 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [MSU] -Change: automatically remove servers that haven't advertised for a while
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08:09<Pikka>maybe Rubidium will!
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08:12<Pikka>maybe glx will!
08:13<TrueBrain>Rubidium: why not directly remove servers that haven't been online for, say, a month?
08:13<Pikka>nothing, sorry. :)
08:27<Rubidium>maybe Pikka will
08:28<Rubidium>TrueBrain: that isn't really a priority :)
08:28<TrueBrain>Rubidium: given r17744, that is just a simple copy/paste and a few extra letters
08:28<TrueBrain>10 minutes :p
08:28<Rubidium>getting those massively duplicated ex servers out was the reason
08:28<TrueBrain>I figured as much ;)
08:28<TrueBrain>I hope it helps ..
08:28<Rubidium>TrueBrain: yes, 10 minutes I didn't have at that time
08:29<Rubidium>testing took longer than expected
08:29*TrueBrain gives Rubidium 10 minutes :)
08:29<TrueBrain>as always ...
08:30<Pikka>Rubidium: but, but...
08:34<Pikka>what has become of petern?
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09:07<@Belugas>do what Pikka?
09:07<planetmaker>some callback 15/36 stuff
09:08<planetmaker>and hello :-)
09:09<Muxy>hi, wet or dry in canada ?
09:10<+glx>or snowy ;)
09:16<@Belugas>it's cloudy, around 15 celcius
09:16<@Belugas>so far.. it's nice
09:16<@Belugas>in the office, it's another story
09:17<@Belugas>at least, coffee is freely flowing
09:18<Pikka>Belugas: <Pikka> how about using 36 for the refitted capacity if the bit for cb 15 is not set in property 1E?
09:18<Pikka>currently cb 36 for capacity only works for the unrefitted cargo :)
09:18<@Belugas>is it allowed?
09:18<@Belugas>would it break things here and there?
09:19<@Belugas>and.. oh my god... vehicles callback!
09:19<Pikka>well, it currently doesn't work for refitted vehicles because it would conflict with cb15
09:19*Belugas shivers and shakes and swallows
09:19<Pikka>:P k
09:23<Pikka>there's already a 36 for capacity, btw, it's just a question of when it applies it. :}
09:23<Pikka>it's all petern's doing, anyhow...
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09:39<fonsinchen>It's always funny to watch the discussions about those piles of ugliness nfo is made of ...
09:39<@Belugas>Pikka, honestly, i don't have a clue on that stuff
09:40<@Belugas>i can give it a look, even ask petern about it
09:40<@Belugas>mmh... is it me or even Lakie is against that stuff?
09:40<@Belugas>got to ask him
09:46<Muxy>hot patatoe ?
09:50<@Belugas>i think
09:50<Pikka>only if you're a vice-presidential candidate
09:50<@Belugas>not really... just.. i've not done much on vehicles
09:50<Pikka>otherwise it's potato
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10:02<Sacro>it's all goood
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10:44<Pikka>Yexo: where in the source is that comment? :)
10:45<Pikka>oh wait
10:45<Pikka>nm, stupid... ^^;
10:47<Pikka>yep, you posted the changelog which had it right there, sorry. :)
10:53<Pikka>hmm, I guess I could make the change myself, but I know what my chances of getting it accepted into trunk (and/or 0.7.4) are... :/
10:54<Pikka>*don't* know, even
10:56<Pikka>perhaps I should post about it in the graphics forum, see if anyone would object to the change... :)
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>what does the spec say should happen, and what happens in TTDPatch?
10:57<Pikka>the spec doesn't say that it only applies for the default cargo. it's not implemented in TTDPatch.
10:58*Belugas fears some desynchs
10:59<Pikka>why? it's no different from any other callback 36 var (and indeed no different from the current callback 36 for capacity)
11:00<@Belugas> -> /* Cache wagon override sprite group. NULL is returned if there is none */
11:00<@Belugas>one of the reasons
11:01<Pikka>eh? I'm not sure what that has to do with it... the only change I (think) I want is on line 319
11:01<Pikka>u->cargo_type == e_u->GetDefaultCargoType() && u->cargo_subtype == 0
11:01<Pikka>replaced with
11:01<Pikka>!HasBit(e->info.callback_mask, CBM_VEHICLE_REFIT_CAPACITY)
11:02<Pikka>as far as I can tell :P
11:02<@Belugas>well... two ways of knowing
11:02<@Belugas>1) dig the history of that line, and all related commits
11:02<Pikka>guess I'll have to get my compiling shoes on
11:02<@Belugas>2) create a patch, a few builds and test live
11:03<Yexo>Belugas: relevant commits are 9875 and r9828
11:04<Yexo>change Pikka described above looks ok codewise, but I don't know if it's ok as it changes the spec
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11:07<Pikka>the ttdpatch wiki doesn't go into the nuances of it.. just says that cb36 works for train capacity in ottd.
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11:15<@Belugas>thanks Yexo
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11:41<Pikka>uhoh :)
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11:44<Pikka>just been talking about some changes to cb36, Lakie
11:44<Lakie>... what kind of changes
11:46<frosch123>oh, cb36 and cb15, i discussed that with george some time ago
11:46<Pikka>yes frosch123
11:47<frosch123> <- i partly lost track of it though
11:48<@Belugas>Pikka, it seems that originally, it was free of constraint
11:48<@Belugas>last commit of peter1138 (9875) fixed something that broke it by adding the check
11:48<@Belugas>-Fix (r9828): Only set carriage capacity if the wagon has not been refitted.
11:49<@Belugas>so i guess looking back in irc logs will be the proper wayy to go
11:49<frosch123>i changed lots wrt. refitting and capacity around r16000
11:49<frosch123>what is the current problem?
11:50<Pikka>cb36 doesn't work if the vehicle is fitted to a different cargo, and I want it to
11:50<Pikka>perhaps we could have both checks?
11:50<Yexo>from your document: TrainsRefitted capacity: - If that fails, use callback 36 and apply capacity multipliers relative to the default cargo.<- callback 36 is ignored
11:51<frosch123> amount = e->u.rail.capacity; <- yeah CB36 is not called at all
11:52<Yexo>20 lines below that, in TrainConsistChanged CB36 is called
11:53<frosch123>yup, just looking at that one
11:53<frosch123>but it does not call cb15 there :p
11:55<Zuu>Should fixes/code changes to the core of the window system be labled "core" or "interface" at FS?
11:56<Pikka>I just want the current cb36 to work in a way that doesn't conflict with cb15 ^^;
11:56<Yexo>interface I think
11:56<Pikka>how does this look for a new line 319:
11:56<Zuu>Even if users will never see any change.
11:56<Pikka>if (e_u->CanCarryCargo() && ((u->cargo_type == e_u->GetDefaultCargoType() && u->cargo_subtype == 0) || (!HasBit(e->info.callback_mask, CBM_VEHICLE_REFIT_CAPACITY))) ) {
11:57<frosch123>Pikka: me and george want cb15 to be always called (even when not refitted) and if it fails then cb36 to be called
11:57<Yexo>Zuu: pick whatever you think best,it can always be changed later if needed
11:57<Pikka>frosch: why?
11:58<frosch123>to work for both known an unknown cargos
11:58<Zuu>I just learned that bug fixes that contain patches probably should be labled as "bug" since SmartZ changed a patch task to bug that contained a bug fix.
11:58<Pikka>makes no sense...
11:58<Lakie>unknown cargos?
11:58<frosch123>and to work sane if default cargo is "first refittable"
11:58<frosch123>Lakie: not part of translation table
11:59<frosch123>known cargos use cb15, and default cargos use cb36 with some multipliers
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11:59<Pikka>why not just use callback 36 in that case? what can you do with a callback 15 that's called on build that you can't do with callback 36?
12:00<frosch123>cb15 returns the exact capacity, cb36 returns some value that is multiplied depending on passenger, mail, goods or other cargo
12:00<Pikka>cb36 returns an exact capacity
12:00<frosch123>not for all vehicles
12:01<frosch123>see my documentation :)
12:01<Pikka>well... it should :P
12:02<frosch123>no, property14 does not either
12:03<frosch123>you want a 350 passenger plane refittable to 350 tons coal?
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12:03<Pikka>I want it refittable to however many units I tell it to be refittable to
12:04<frosch123>then use cb15
12:04<Pikka>rather than however many units I tell it to be refittable to * some pointless multiplier
12:05<frosch123>"Unlike regular refitted capacities, the return value is not subject to the usual division of capacities for cargoes other than passengers on trains and planes, instead the capacity is used exactly as returned by the callback." <- that is the central point of cb15, the central point of cb36 is to behave exactly like the properties
12:06<frosch123>(though currently cb 15 is not called always, and was we learned today cb 36 neither)
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12:07<Pikka>(btw, in case it's not obvious, my current problem is trying to change capacities on events other than building and refitting)
12:08<frosch123>will be a nice desyncer
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12:09<frosch123>capacity is only updated in depots and when joining game
12:09<frosch123>if the capacity changes outside, they will differ
12:09<Pikka>it's still in the depot
12:10<Pikka>on rearranging in the depot
12:10<frosch123>then it is fine
12:10<Pikka>except it doesn't work, except with the default cargo, thanks to line 319. ;)
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12:12<Yexo>hello Terkhen
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12:37<Zuu>4 focus-related patches in 2 days :-) And one more idea..
12:38<Zuu>Mostly small code changing/fixing patches though.
12:40<Zuu>Im also thinking about writing a wiki page with some information about the focus system.
12:40<Yexo>Zuu: about FS#3257, I think it's better to introduce a new function like GetWidgetOfType that returns the widget index
12:41<Yexo>or alternativly somethinglike SetFocusedWigetByType
12:41<Zuu>You mean instead of wi - this->parent->widget?
12:42<Zuu>The widget index minus start pointer method is used elsewhere I think.
12:42<Zuu>I can agree it is not really beutifull though.
12:42<Pikka>night all
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12:43<Yexo>when reading that diff it's not really obvious to me that both pointers are from the same array, and as such I don't like the code
12:44<Zuu>Actually I vaguly remember that I coded a GetWidgetIndex function that got rejected because of the pointer aremetics that you can use instead. But I'm not sure if it was really rejected or if it was just opinions thrown around.
12:45<Yexo>oh, better ask Alberth in that case
12:45<Yexo>before I advise you to rewrite your patch in a way that'll be rejected by him
12:45<Zuu>Yea, I haven't seen him around since I started to tip on the widget code lately. But I should probably get his opinion on stuff before doing to much.
12:47<Zuu>FS#3257 I just stumbled across when I was making FS#3256 and was looking for places in trunk where the introduced UnfocusFocusedWidget function could be used.
12:49<Yexo>about FS#3256: if (this->focused_widget) { <- misses != NULL
12:49<Yexo>and you could move the this->*_widget = NULL; in the if-block so it isn't set when already NULL
12:50<Zuu>hmm, yea != NULL is missing. I guess it should be there just for clearaty. Or is there a difference in execution with having != NULL also?
12:50<Yexo>no, it's just code style
12:51<Zuu>But I'll sure add it.
12:51<Yexo>and personally I'd change "if (this->nested_array != NULL) {" to "assert(this->nested_array != NULL);" and thus leave out the NOT_REACHED() at the end
12:52<Yexo>that makes it more clear what code is required for nested widgets and which code is temporary to support the old widget system (the first if-block)
12:53<Zuu>I just copied how Alberth(?) did it for SetFoculedWidget.
12:53<Zuu>So that it is concistent with that.
12:53<Yexo>I see, it's fine then
12:54<Zuu>But i'll move the = NULL part so no assignment is done if the variable is already NULL.
12:57<Zuu>Yexo: I've added an update:
12:58<Zuu>Maybe a blank line between ...SetDirty() and the NULL assignment?
12:58<Yexo>possible, not necesary
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12:59<Zuu>Ok, then I'll leave it as it is untill someone demands me to add it. ;-)
12:59<Yexo>"In trunk I don't see anywhere this function will be used" <- that however is a major reason not to include the function
13:00<Zuu>I realize that. So maybe it is better to just include it in the sign list patch for now.
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13:01<Yexo>that makes me wonder if the first part of the function (for non-nested widgets) is actually useful
13:01<Zuu>Even though, not having the function make it quite hard to figure out how to unfocus widgets as it is now.
13:01<Yexo>since new windows should only have nested widgets, and old windows don't need it (or at least don't use it currently)
13:01<Zuu>Why would it not be usefull?
13:02<Zuu>The reason why it is not used currently is that no window currently want to unfocus a widget. Or at least noone have found out how to do it.
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13:03<Yexo> that no window currently want to unfocus a widget <- _if_ that is true, then the first part is useless, because as I said, new windows should only use nested widgets
13:04<Zuu>Except for modifications to old windows.
13:05<Zuu>Though I guess a patch to an old window has low chance of getting accepted before the window gets converted.
13:05<Yexo>if that's needed,just update the window first to nested windows
13:05<Yexo>so yes
13:06<Zuu>True, but if we would add the UnfocusFocusedWidget, it seams strange to make it only work with nested widgets just because implicitly old widget windows wont use it.
13:07<Zuu>Arguing that one should use "this->nested_focus->SetDirty(); this->nested_focus = NULL;" I could understand though.
13:08<Yexo>the old widget system will be removed as soon as all windows are converted, so why add code that won't be used and will be removed 'soon'?
13:09<Zuu>I don't have a good answer to that other than 'soon' might be not very soon.
13:11<Zuu>The best argumnet I could give is that adding a UnfocusFocusedWidget() function will make it more clear how to unfocus a widget. And then adding a function that does not work with the old widget system when it is just a matter of a few more lines seams strange to me. Especially if the idea with the function is to make things more understandable.
13:12<Zuu>This argument is not very strong I understand though.
13:14<Yexo>I understand your point
13:15<Yexo>for me it's all part of the bigger "don't add code that isn't used"
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13:15<Zuu>Okay, I'll buy that.
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13:17<Zuu>That said if the action "unfocus focused widget" would be performed, I think that should be absracted as a function so that only the Widget System should deal with how that action is performed. But I guess my only opinion is to make use of that action and have that peice of code accepted to trunk. ;-)
13:19<Yexo>opinion? Did you mean option?
13:19<Zuu>yea, it should be option.
13:19<@Belugas>or oignon?
13:23<Zuu>Belugas: You mean onion?
13:24<@Belugas>hem... onion
13:24<Zuu>... probably not then ...
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17745 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
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13:49<Sacro>So there's open source theme hospital now
13:54<Zuu>Oh, nice
13:55<Zuu>But I kind of have lost my interest of it. Even though I played it a lot when I was younger.
13:56*Zuu wonders why they on the video hires a lot of staff without building any rooms. But I guess building rooms is not implemented yet...
13:57<Zuu>Oh, now they build a room. :-)
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>hm... theme hospital... is that something like Biing?
13:58-!-Hirundo_ is now known as Hirundo
14:00<Zuu>The patients in CorsixTH at least seams to be good at standing in formations. :-)
14:02<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: looks like "Der Planer"
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14:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm, what's the magic incantation to gcc that makes "cc1plus: warnings being treated as errors" disappear?
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14:11<Yexo>-Werror ?
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14:25<Zuu>I've just created which documents a little bit on the focus system.
14:26<Zuu>I hope it fit in the OpenTTDDevBlackBook.
14:29<Zuu>How do I edit the DevDoc template so it includes a link to the page in the yellow menu box?
14:30<Zuu>Oh, it is.
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15:45<Yexo>hello Seberoth
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15:55<Zuu>Hi Seberoth
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16:42<Terkhen>good night
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17:32<andythenorth>large trucks are brutally effective on a short feeder route to a dock. Industry production goes up, I can't get the ships in fast enough :P
17:32<andythenorth>maybe I need bigger boats...
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17:41<Zuu>Oneplatform secondary stations are a bit challenging.
17:41<andythenorth>is there any chance that the rv offsets got shifted by mistake (or intention)? Both HEQS and eGRVTS are driving over the center line in certain angles...
17:42<andythenorth>.... Thought it was my mistake in the grf, but would Zephyris make the identical mistake?
17:42<Zuu>I have a secondary cargo train that I have set up the orders so that it goes to its unload station if it has some cargo on it, else it goes to a delay station where it sits around and waits a 20 days and then try again.
17:43<Zuu>So that trains with the source cargo for the industry can access the industry station.
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>why the hell do you do that?
17:43<Zuu>Because the town refuses me to expand the industry station.
17:44<Zuu>And I do not want it to run over my mainline all the time.
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>that is unfortunate planning, i'd say ;)
17:45<Zuu>Also I like setting up advanced systems :-)
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>well, but your "advanced" system is not really good on the ratings ;)
17:46<Zuu>Sure, but it gets the goods from the station without blocking the inflow to it.
17:46<Zuu>And the ratings are still 45% at the moment.
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>45% != 67%
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>(67% is about "always a train waiting")
17:48<Zuu>But if there would be a train always waiting then there will be no sources incomming to the industry..
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18:05<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>aaah... my eyes... i just saw Belugas rejecting a feature because it is NOT realistic
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19:06<@Belugas>i knew it would create a few reactions :D
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19:15<@Belugas>so... back to my son
19:15<@Belugas>bye bye
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 09 00:00:26 2009