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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-10

---Logopened Sat Oct 10 00:00:57 2009
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03:53<SmatZ>hello Alberth
03:54<_ln>hello SmatZlberth
03:56<SmatZ>hello _ln
04:02<Alberth>hello _ln
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04:10<Pikka>hello eccles
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05:44<andythenorth>hi hi
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06:01<andythenorth>ho ho
06:04<Pikka>ying tong yiddle I po
06:06<Pikka>tell me andy... do you set the covered/sheltered cargo class bit for grain in FIRS?
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06:06<Pikka>I'm thinking that I will in TaI, rather than add the grain exception to all vehicles in future sets
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06:07<Pikka>of course, it means people using the default industries will be able to carry grain in wagons they strictly shouldn't, but whatever!
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06:17<andythenorth>Pikka: not sure...FooBar wrote the code...let me see...
06:20<andythenorth>what doe that tell us?
06:20<Pikka>also, hmms @ random type 84
06:20<andythenorth>I currently have to exclude grain from HEQS vehicles, it's a PITA
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06:24<Pikka>\w16 ...
06:24*Pikka wonders at people using decimal escapes for bit masks
06:25<Pikka>I guess not, then.
06:26<Pikka>otoh, changing the cargo classes for grain will /break/ all older sets which explicitly exclude it... ho hum...
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>which kind of vehicle doesn't allow transporting grain?
06:52<Pikka>in reality or in ttd, eddi?
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06:53<Pikka>in reality it's not often carried in the same basic open wagons as things like coal are... it makes more sense for it to be "covered/sheltered". perhaps the best option would be for TaI to have a completely new cargo...
06:57<Rubidium>my stomach might be a vehicle that doesn't quite allow transporting grain
07:03<Pikka>the other option would be to change the default cargo classes in TTDP/OTTD, but that would require a quorum of devs and grf authors. :P
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07:03<andythenorth>Pikka: that's brave
07:04<andythenorth>we have had much 'discussion' with george about FIRS
07:04<Pikka>ecs has "Cereals", but that's not covered/sheltered either... D:
07:04<Rubidium>well... not going to happen without a newgrf version bump I fear
07:04<Rubidium>which will mean old NewGRFs would still 'misbehave' etc.
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07:05<andythenorth>apparently the current system is fine.
07:05<SK2>hi all
07:05<andythenorth>I don't understand it, and my grfs only make use of it because Zephyris wrote me a cargo table, but hey
07:05<SK2>is there some way to have all engines replaced?
07:05<Pikka>the current system /is/ fine, andy. it's just not necessarily used properly. ;)
07:05<andythenorth>I have no idea how I am going to create a truck that refits to Steel and FIRS aluminium for example.
07:06<andythenorth>I could figure it out...
07:06<Rubidium>SK2: depending on what you exactly want it's either autoreplace or autorenew
07:07<Pikka>property 16, andy. although you'd have to make sure both steel and aluminininimumum come early enough in the cargo table (ie, in the first 32 entries)
07:07<Rubidium>SK2: which you can find explanations of on our wiki
07:07<SK2>I now have Lev2 engine, and want them to be replaced with Lev4
07:07<andythenorth>aluminimimmumimum :)
07:08<+glx>SK2: autoreplace
07:08<SK2>and where is te autoreplace?
07:08<Pikka> SK2
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07:08<andythenorth>FISH gets almost *no* cargo specific sprites. Much easier :)
07:08<SK2>ok thanks
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07:11<Eddi|zuHause>seeing as the vast majority here is european, i don't see a problem with setting for "aluminium" ;)
07:11<Rubidium>just go for Al
07:11<SK2>thanks Pikka, for your link :)
07:11<SK2>they now are being replaced
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07:12<Pikka>Eddi: I'm british/australian, we say aluminium too
07:14<SmatZ>OndraZizka: good luck :-)
07:14<OndraZizka>SmatZ: Hereby I'm looking for co-programmers :)
07:14<SmatZ>hehe ;)
07:15<SmatZ>good luck with looking for co-programmers :)
07:15<OndraZizka>Thanks :) Are some devs here? I've just few technical questions
07:16<SmatZ>some, yes
07:16<Eddi|zuHause>ask the questions, they don't necessarily require a dev at all
07:16<Rubidium>I've heard Pikka is some dev :)
07:16<SpComb>hardly a clone
07:16<SpComb>perhaps an MMOified version
07:19<OndraZizka>SpComb: Yes, that's more accurate
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07:20<OndraZizka>"WebTTD - browser-based Transport Tycoon derivate" ;-)
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>but that abbreviates to "bbTTd" :p
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07:22<SpComb>so change it to 'WebTTD - A Browser-based ...' :P
07:23<SpComb>hmm, I've seen a couple isometric-2D web frontends some time
07:23<SpComb>someone on this channel wrote something that had landscape
07:24<andythenorth>yay, done some more of the stupid boats :P
07:24<SpComb>can't remember who it was... TrueBrain?
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>i believe that was TrueBrain
07:24<Pikka>hooray for stupid boats!
07:25<TrueBrain>I never wrote that; I did it for WebDUNE. The one you refer to had a very nice prototype
07:25<SpComb>well, I recall something that looked very much like TTD
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07:26<TrueBrain>wasn't me :)
07:26<TrueBrain>Well, all I did once was push via PNGs to a web screenshots of the game ... but I never published any screenshots of it :p (as it failed badly)
07:27<SpComb>I had the realtime scrolly-tiles thing, but it was just a hack
07:27<SmatZ>hmmm... directory called "P"... I wonder what it contains...
07:27<TrueBrain>I did that for Webdune ;) Ghehe :) It even had a Quad running in the map :p
07:27<SmatZ>OH GOD!
07:28*Rubidium wonders what SmatZ's rambling about
07:29<SmatZ>content of that directory was quite explicit and hardcore :-p
07:29<TrueBrain>so you found your porn back on your own disk?
07:29<TrueBrain>good for you!
07:29<SmatZ>not my disk :-p
07:29<TrueBrain>isn't that what they all say?
07:30*SmatZ is gone for few hours... this notebook needs detailed examination...
07:30<Rubidium>*too* much detail
07:31<TrueBrain>Rubidium: no, that would be when he gives the link to his webcam
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>by examination i hope you mean "dd"
07:33<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: rsync is more useful in this case
07:35<SpComb>storing porn in a TrueCrypt volume is good for society as a whole
07:36<OndraZizka>SpComb: realtime scrolly-tiles thing, that sounds interesting, do you still have it?
07:36<SmatZ>-"in a TrueCrypt volume "
07:36<OndraZizka>TrueBrain: Do you still have that prototype?
07:36<SpComb>OndraZizka: I mean, it was just tiled screenshots from OpenTTD, nothing more
07:36<OndraZizka>SpComb: Aha :)
07:37<SpComb>but there has been prior work on actually constructing the isometric tiles with javascript/HTML, I can distinctly remember at least two instances
07:40<OndraZizka>SpComb: I have coded that already,
07:40<OndraZizka>even with elevations
07:40<OndraZizka>but, I can't figure out how to tell which tile was clicked...
07:40<OndraZizka>(for that elevated model)
07:40<SpComb>well, math :)
07:41<OndraZizka>Well, not math :) rather a pixel depth-map
07:41<OndraZizka>There are buildings etc...
07:41<OndraZizka>generally, sprites.
07:43<andythenorth>hmmm....I could really use a collaborator for FISH :|
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07:43<Pikka>to do what, andy?
07:44<andythenorth>a little bit of drawing, and a little bit of coding
07:44<andythenorth>example: I've added ferries.
07:44<andythenorth>They could do with a loaded state. Buses for example
07:44<andythenorth>Which can be had from eGRVTS
07:44<andythenorth>but the ferries also refit to other cargos
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>OndraZizka: there is a calculation for which tile is clicked in the game code
07:44<andythenorth>so I need alternatives sprites with trucks
07:45<andythenorth>that's 20 minutes of drawing and 20 mins of code
07:45<andythenorth>I guess without a collaborator FISH will never have all the little tweaks that make a lovely set
07:45<Pikka>I dunno, it seems to be coming along quite nicely :)
07:46<TrueBrain>[13:36] <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Do you still have that prototype? <- I have my working prototype somewhere, but it is based on a older version of Django, so it doesn't want to boot :p Besides, because it used Python to access a 2D array, it was DEAD slow :p
07:47<OndraZizka>Eddi|zuHause: Well, that's what I wanted to ask, how it's done in OpenTTD. Are you sure it's a calculation, not a pixel map?
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure it's a calculation
07:48<OndraZizka>Eddi|zuHause: Ok, and by any chance, do you know which code does this?
07:48<OndraZizka>(svn link at best)
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>no, but there can't be that many places that do screen<->map coordinate transformations
07:49<TrueBrain>it depends on the object ... you can never press on a tile, that has no action
07:49<TrueBrain>clicking vehicles, labels, .. have effect
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: it's not about the actions, for example tile highlighting needs this transformation, too
07:50<OndraZizka>TrueBrain: Has an action, if you're e.g. in railway building mode, right?
07:50<OndraZizka>So then you need to know the tile
07:50<andythenorth>oops my nfo crashed the game
07:50<Alberth>OndraZizka: simplest approach may be to follow the terrain tile by tile towards the coords of the mouse
07:50<TrueBrain>tilehighlight_* might help you with highlights
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07:51<OndraZizka>Alberth: Perhaps, but if it was not a bunch of <div>s
07:51<OndraZizka>...thus, rectangles
07:51<Alberth>2 triangles
07:52<OndraZizka>hm, that sounds promisingly
07:52<TrueBrain>for OpenTTD, most of the conversion is done in VpSelectTilesWithMethod() I believe
07:53<OndraZizka>Well I could actually ignore buildings etc, store a set of triangles upon drawing, and then compute the tile from the coords
07:53<OndraZizka>(by searching these triangles0
07:53<TrueBrain>I would suggest to put a <div> at a very high z, and record mousemovement on that (and make it transparent, of course)
07:53<TrueBrain>that makes it simple javascript to calculate placement
07:54<OndraZizka>TrueBrain: That's what I do
07:54<OndraZizka>I thing google maps and similar do that too.
07:56<OndraZizka>Well, thanks for tips, I'll try to make use of them. Bye
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08:07<Pikka>andy: I crash it all the time :P
08:11<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17751 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3253]: sometimes clicking on a for the user unfocused edit box would show the OSK (Zuu)
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08:15<Rubidium>going to hold a 'who can crash OpenTTD in the most ways' contest?
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08:19<Eddi|zuHause>the person ho can press the "crash openttd" button the fastest :p
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>recently i had this thought: "which idiot had the bright idea to put the "close dosbox" key next to the "make dosbox faster" key
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08:23<Rubidium>well... on some keyboards the close OpenTTD key is next to the give me money key
08:23<Rubidium>(on mine it isn't)
08:25<SmatZ>hello frosch123
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>which reminds me of a question i had... is there a way to get debug symbols into an otherwise-behaving-like-release build?
08:26<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: I think they are there now (with -rdynamic)
08:27<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: CFLAGS="-g -ggdb"
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08:27<frosch123>afternoon everyone :)
08:27<Alberth>good afternoon
08:31<SmatZ> now how to fix this :-x mc is too bright, bold letters are too wide...
08:32<Rubidium>I used the 'close tab' button to fix the issue ;)
08:33<SmatZ>hehe :)
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: does "shift+tab" work in konsole for you?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>i can't get mine to pass this combination on to the program
08:34<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: doesn't seem so, it should swithc to different tab?
08:34<frosch123>shift + cursor left/right ?
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08:35<frosch123>or what tabs?
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>no, i want konsole to pass it on to the program, so it can react to it
08:36<frosch123>both tab and shift+tab seems to be passed
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>it worked in kde3, but in kde4 it doesn't
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>shift+tab gets intercepted somewhere
08:36<frosch123>fine, i'm on 3 :)
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>and i can't find out where
08:37<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: just change the key-bindings for the program
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i tried that
08:38*SmatZ dislikes gnome-console because F10 is bound to something in default settings
08:38<Alberth>hmm, perhaps shift+tab is different. I set the shift+cursor left/right to switch tab in that way.
08:38<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: isn't it switching your keyboard layout or something?
08:39<SmatZ>when I press shitf+tab in mc in konsole, it does something
08:39<frosch123>it prints "Z"
08:40<SmatZ>it makes the promt to lose focus
08:40<SmatZ>and all keys stop working
08:41<SmatZ>hmm right
08:41<SmatZ>shift+F10, right switches Konsole tab
08:41<SmatZ>so it's caught by konsole
08:47<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17752 /trunk/src/ (osk_gui.cpp querystring_gui.h town_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3231]: OSK could reset town name to an already used town name for the 'Generate Town' window
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08:50<Rubidium>as you can see, they're not bothered :)
08:52<SmatZ>oh :(
08:55<frosch123>ah, if it spoils vim users, it is fine
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>did you ever notice that the majority of people involved with KDE seem to be german?
08:56<frosch123>that is only because americans, russians, chinese and indian are under-represented
08:57<Rubidium>yes, that's why everything must have a K in it; they seem to dislike Cs in Germany; e.g. Kino instead of cinema/bioscoop
08:59<Rubidium>or Kakao vs cacao
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>in german words, "c" only ever appears in combination with either "h" or "k"
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>"ck", "ch", "sch"
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>only a handful of latin- or english-derived words have standalone "c" in them
09:02<Rubidium>and only a handful; not all latin derived words (Benedikt)
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>the only worse letter is, "q", without any (known to me) exception, it always appears in the combination "qu"
09:03<andythenorth>new FISH release :) I has ferries
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: strangely, "c" is more common in german (3,06%) than in english (2,782%)
09:05<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: <- one way to solve it
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i know that text in relation to the spelling reform
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: and i even saw a similar one in english
09:08<Pikka>sweet, andy
09:08<Rubidium>frosch123: and still I'd ignore you when speaking like that on the market
09:08<Pikka>btw, perhaps you should put the date of the latest release in the topic title? :)
09:09<Rubidium>Pikka: good idea, though in the 20091010 format
09:09<frosch123>Rubidium: you stayed at home 7 days ago? :p
09:09<Rubidium>frosch123: yes
09:10<Rubidium>though I went to the market on tuesday
09:11<andythenorth>The FISH ferries aren't very high quality...I got bored of them, they need shading and anti-aliasing. But better to have them than not at all...
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of letter combination, i still have no clue how the english ended up with a standalone "q" in "Iraq"
09:12<Rubidium>andythenorth: why not high quality? They stay afloat for centuries; that's not something you can say about 'real' boats
09:12<andythenorth>Rubidium: :P
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09:17<Rubidium>hmm... the irony... German trains service the least used Dutch station
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09:18<Rubidium>if they actually stop more trains stop a day than people entering/leaving the trains
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the dutch dislike german trains, and boycott the station because of this? :p
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>the west berlin citizens did that with the east german owned S-Bahn
09:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17753 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17750): Expenses amounts were printed two pixels too low.
09:20<Rubidium> <- the station
09:21<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it might be that you'd have to buy a separate ticket for the train so you can as well buy a ticket for the bus that is a) more frequent and b) stops closer to your home
09:21<Rubidium>so it'd only be benificial if you were to go *to* Germany instead of going to any other Dutch station
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>but if you were going to germany, wouldn't you much more likely go via enschede main station?
09:25<Rubidium>if you don't live in the really eastern part of Enschede, then yes
09:32<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17754 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make ExpensesList::GetHeight() return a uint.
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09:39<Eddi|zuHause>forum request: can the NoAI subforum be moved to the place that previously was occupied by the graphics forum?
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>there is no reason why it should be a subforum of the "general" forum
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09:51<TrueBrain>I second that Eddi|zuHause
09:52<TrueBrain>but maybe you should have added a keyword like: orudge
09:53<Alberth>and/or post the request at the feedback forum :)
10:00<Pikka>woo, animated wakes!
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10:14<SK2>goods make towns grow, right?
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10:16<Eddi|zuHause>there is nothing in goods that make them grow any faster
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>growth only depends on the number of serviced stations, no matter if you deliver anything
10:19<SK2>so its better to build a number of small stations, instead of one big?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>typically a bus route through the city
10:20<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17755 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Allow for a zero-size display plane in a NWidgetStacked widget to hide its child widgets.
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10:23<SK2>Eddi|zuHause: and giving the bus route a large number of stations makes it grow faster?
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>SK2: up to 5 stations, i believe
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10:32<SK2>hmm since I build the 4 bus stations the city size dropped from 1437 to 1080
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10:34<SK2>hello tokai
10:39<Alberth>when a building gets rebuild/upgraded, it is temporary empty
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10:52<frosch123>argh! photon attack!
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>simply modulate the main deflector
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11:07<Alberth>or stay away from the window
11:07<frosch123>well, the defense line almost closed again
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11:18<CIA-4>OpenTTD: alberth * r17756 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Company finances window uses pure nested widgets.
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11:21<Eddi|zuHause>is that already the "get rid of old stuff" phase?
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11:23<Alberth>as in 'remove the Widget arrays of the company finances window', yes.
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11:25<Alberth>there are another 50+ windows to do before the Widget stuff itself can be removed.
11:26<Alberth>so depending on what you mean by 'get rid of old stuff', it can be yes or no :p
11:30<Alberth>actually, 51 windows to go
11:30<frosch123>to complete phase 2 of 7 :p
11:31<frosch123>(the fun just seems to start)
11:34<fonsinchen>What are the remaining 5 phases?
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11:35<+tokai>hello there, SK2
11:36<SK2>hi tokai
11:36<+tokai>(bit late reply, I know. ;)
11:36<frosch123>fonsinchen: "add amazing stuff 3" to "... 7"
11:37<SK2>even though my town has a lot of stations, it dropped a lot in size :(
11:37<fonsinchen>that's a very detailed plan, I must say.
11:39<SK2>what do submarines and combat aircrafts etc do, or are they just for fun?
11:40<frosch123>combat aircraft is for advertising some game
11:40<SK2>wow these are awesome ->
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm, the photon attack seems to spread around here, too
12:11<frosch123>it turned into a hail attack some minutes ago, now a lighning attack is approaching
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12:25<SK2>is there some way to automatically replace engines that hit the max age?
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>search for "autorenew"
12:26<SK2>ok thanks
12:27<SK2>me builds a statue for Eddi|zuHause
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>forgot the /
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12:28<@Belugas>? you changed nick? your now Eddi/zuHause ?
12:29*frosch123 hopes belugas is at home
12:29<SK2>Eddi|zuHause: I found it under [gui]
12:30<@Belugas>he is, frosch123
12:30<@Belugas>thanks ;)
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: no, i meant "/me"
12:30<SK2>i guess i need to restart my game now?
12:30<@Belugas>i know, Eddi|zuHause, was just kidding ;)
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>SK2: no, you can set it from the advanced settings menu
12:30<SK2>ok thanks
12:31<SK2>maybe that needs to be added here: ?
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>that page is heavily outdated ;)
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12:32<frosch123>hi andy
12:32<andythenorth>ask the group mind: a vehicle ferry should be refittable to all cargoes yes?
12:33<frosch123>you mean the trucks on board?
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>hm. i'd say same as container cargo, plus passengers
12:33<frosch123>in that case likely no liquid stuff
12:34<frosch123>nor refridgerated
12:34<andythenorth>well it could be refrigerated trucks?
12:34<andythenorth>or tankers?
12:34<frosch123>afaik a truck only refridges as long as the engine is running
12:34<frosch123>and liquid stuff on a ship is always troublesome
12:35<andythenorth>hazmat :P
12:35<SK2>these autoreplace and autorenew functions are awesome
12:35<Pikka>frosch: so they leave the engine running. :P
12:35<andythenorth>frosch123: ok, no hazmat liquids. and your prize is that you get to help me work out the bit mask :)
12:35<frosch123>yeah, noone will notice when the ship engine is running
12:36<andythenorth> or we could just leave it at 'all cargoes' ;)
12:36<frosch123>andythenorth: no bit mask, use cargo classes :p
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12:36<andythenorth>prop 19?
12:36<andythenorth>that's what I meant
12:37<andythenorth>words != correct words sometimes in my brain
12:37<andythenorth>I think using classes will be a fail with FIRS. My translation table is not FIRS aware
12:37<Pikka>andy: 18 FF 00 19 00 01 should do it
12:39<Pikka>although that's no hazardous anything, rather than specifically no hazardous liquids
12:40<Pikka>you can't do just no hazardous liquids unless someone invents a refittable cargo callback :)
12:40<frosch123>9 = 1, 11 = 0,18 = 237, 19 = 5c8 maybe?
12:40<andythenorth>Pikka: I've stuck in your code...allows refit to everything?
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12:40<andythenorth>correction. everything except gear ratio
12:41<frosch123>Pikka: it is already invented, also implemented, just not committed :p
12:41<Pikka>how rare, frosch123 :P
12:42<Pikka>should be right, andy. obviously you have no hazardous cargos. :)
12:42<frosch123>yeah, you can choose between testgrfs and patches, but you never get both
12:43<andythenorth>Pikka: okey dokey
12:43<andythenorth>no nuclear waste on that ferry then
12:44<andythenorth>I need to make my brain understand the cargo system, I've been trying for more than a year with no grok
12:45<andythenorth>so hazardous is 100, and flipping that gets me 00 10
12:45<frosch123>use \wx 100
12:46<andythenorth>frosch123: I guess I am trying to understand the system so I can work it out instead of asking every time
12:46<Pikka>andy: flipping that gets you 00 01
12:47<frosch123>well, \wx 100 is easier to read than 00 01
12:47<Pikka>you swap the order of the bytes, you don't reverse the whole thing
12:47<andythenorth>0100 then flip to get 00 01
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12:47<andythenorth>wtf is the point of cargo class bit 10 (Oversized and/or overweight cargo)
12:48<andythenorth>is anyone really going to use that to enhance gameplay?
12:48<frosch123>ask mb
12:48<andythenorth>cargo classes are 10% too complicated
12:48<andythenorth>that 10% is why very few of us understand them
12:48<andythenorth>it's a very anal system
12:48*Pikka thinks they're pretty straightforward
12:49<Pikka>anyway.. back to drawing flat wagons
12:49<frosch123>andythenorth: iirc there was some excel sheet by the coop guis to compute the refit properties
12:50<andythenorth>I can see how if you were doing trains it would all be very realistic...hazmat cars would have to have some spacer wagons...
12:50<andythenorth>high-wide loads could be forced to be behind the engine etc
12:50<andythenorth>but meh
12:51<andythenorth>drawing flat wagons is the most fun form of drawing
12:51<Pikka>mebe... mebe...
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>oversized cargo needs a clear parallel track! ;)
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>(or in case of trucks: the full width of the road)
12:53<frosch123>oversized cargo is very specific if you can transport it by truck and by ship
12:53<Pikka>are there any cargos declared as oversized?
12:53*Pikka checks
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that is implementable :p
12:53<frosch123>Pikka: mb declared half of ecs cargo as oversized, then george fixed it back to grf reality
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12:54<andythenorth>I feel like some parts of the system are strongly influenced by railfans, not game designers :D
12:54<andythenorth>where was Belugas when we needed him?
12:55<Pikka>glass and vehicles, apparently
12:55<frosch123>Pikka: i doubt ecs vectors declare them like that
12:55<Pikka>it wouldn't matter if they did, I'm not aware of any vehicle sets which exclude oversized cargos from any vehicles...
12:56<andythenorth>setting running costs is strangely very soothing :)
12:57<Pikka>every wagon in NARS needs a running cost, up for it? :P
12:57<andythenorth>trade it for drawing boats?
12:57<Pikka>for my latest project I'm actually using a spreadsheet to calculate costs, rather than just guessing at numbers like I always have in the past. it's working well!
12:58<Pikka>you can have my puffer... it needs a lot of cleaning up though and doesn't match your style D;
12:59<andythenorth>I have a spreadsheet too...also works well!
13:00<frosch123>now you only need something which directly encodes it into nfo :p
13:00<Pikka>making up the calculations and then seeing if they produce a number that looks about right is very fun...
13:00<andythenorth>frosch123: planetmaker / DJ Nekkid are halfway to that system
13:00<andythenorth>using make...
13:01<frosch123>yeah, weird pnfo, i always wonder about the "p"
13:02<Pikka>psuedo! like psuedosprite!
13:02<SK2>Jesus loves you
13:03<andythenorth>FISH Large Ferry: 800 passengers, run cost €12,000, buy cost €185,858
13:03<andythenorth>NARS GP38 + coaches: 800 passengers, run cost €32,236, buy cost €198,274
13:03<andythenorth>(train cost is ~€17,000 if not moving)
13:03<andythenorth>about right?
13:03<andythenorth>Train is much faster...
13:04<Pikka>looks alright
13:04<andythenorth>I have a game running with FISH, I'm coining it with the coasters.
13:04<SK2>i dont think anyone will use ferry?
13:04<andythenorth>I'm also coining it with NARS though :)
13:04<Pikka>that NARS run cost will change when I get rid of HEP... but not by too much...
13:04<SK2>only the oil tankers seem to be of use
13:05<andythenorth>SK2: I'm not too worried.
13:05<andythenorth>some of you like ships, some don't
13:05<andythenorth>I like ships :D
13:05<Pikka>I'm using coal-carrying river boats in my latest test game, they're going well!
13:05<SK2>I like ships too
13:05<frosch123>SK2: are you aware, we are not talking about default vehicles
13:05<SK2>but comparing them with maglev :(
13:06<andythenorth>maglev doesn't float...
13:06<Pikka>yes it does andy
13:06<Pikka>that's the point!
13:06<SK2>bridge, or drop sand, if you have the money
13:07<andythenorth>smacked down
13:07<SK2>but it would be nice if there are better ships :)
13:07<andythenorth>SK2: there *are* better ships
13:08<Pikka>and who uses maglev, anyway? :P
13:08<SK2>in some kindo fpatch?
13:08<SK2>yeah maglev sucks they only go 543
13:09<SK2>check out the hovercraft, 112 km/h
13:10<SK2>lol Utility Vessel
13:12<SK2>ok im going to sell my maglev
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>WOAAAAAAAH, my train derailed!
13:14<SK2>just buy a new one
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13:15<SK2>or even better, buy FISH instead
13:19-!-Dred_furst [] has joined #openttd
13:19<SK2>hi Dred_furst
13:20-!-Chruker [] has joined #openttd
13:20<Dred_furst>Hey who are you
13:21<SK2>hi Chruker
13:21<SK2>what do you wish to know Dred_furst?
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>he's the guy who greets everyone who joins the channel
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>and i still have connectivity trouble in my rails...
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>anyone got spare 500€ so i can buy new ones?
13:23<andythenorth>well, seeing as maglev is the answer to everything, there's no point drawing anything else. So I'm going to the pub.
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>i hate maglev
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>which value do i need to hack for the transrapid to go on monorail instead?
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>what's easier? swap the railtype or swap the rail graphics?
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13:25<SK2>maglev hates you too
13:25<frosch123> <- i guess only prop 5
13:26<frosch123>and 19 maybe too
13:27<Pikka>eddi: which transrapid?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>the one in the dbset, mainly
13:28<Pikka>oh, okay
13:28<Pikka>just property 05 should do it
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>who invented these value ranges for prop 19?
13:30<frosch123>they match the original engines
13:30<frosch123>but that does not make them better :)
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>there were so many diesel engines?
13:32<Pikka>matchpan I guess
13:32<frosch123>well, arctic and desert and toyland have no electric iirc
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13:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i did not consider these
13:34<frosch123>but no, i guess i was very wrong with the original engines guess
13:42<SK2>how comes CIA has interests in openttd?
13:43<andythenorth>well seeing as there is nothing but crazy talk here, it's time to go
13:43<andythenorth>bye :)
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13:44<Steve^>Hi, does anyone have a stable download for the UK Renewal Set?
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17757 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt indonesian.txt ukrainian.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hungarian - 35 changes by leiric
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 49 changes by Madvin
13:45<Steve^>Pikka's site doesn't want to give me the entire file
13:45-!-Nickman_87 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:46<Pikka>how peculiar
13:46<Pikka>try bananas?
13:47<Pikka>the website link seems to work okay here
13:47<frosch123>oh dear, i cannot even blame someone for not noticing that the powernaut helicopter is broken. i guess everyone was happy it is gone
13:47<Steve^>ohh, you can download through the game!
13:47<Steve^>Pikka, Opera stops at 20.7%, Firefox and wget stop at like 2% :(
13:47<Steve^>but the in-game installer works :)
13:48<Pikka>I just clicked the link here and it downloaded fine
13:48*Pikka shrugs
13:51<Steve^>Pikka, do you recommend any station packs to go with your trains?
13:52<Pikka>not particularly to go with mine, but between mb's newstations and the industrial station set you're pretty well covered...
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14:34<Pikka>night all
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14:35<Eddi|zuHause>newstations is definitely missing some larger station builddings
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14:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r17758 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp table/engines.h):
14:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Revert (r17208): Use assert_compile() if you cannot count.
14:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix (r7326): Powernaut Helicopter got wrong 'load amount'.
14:48<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix (r2639): Call the Evil by its name.
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15:17<Nickman87>hi Alberth, I updated the sign list filter patch:, my first real GUI change ;)
15:19-!-Luukland [] has joined #openttd
15:20<Luukland>Guys, the command rcon pass "server_name "! blabla !"" is not working
15:20<Luukland>How to sent it properly?
15:21<Luukland>with or without the "" "" :p
15:22<Luukland>Muxy? Do you maybe know?
15:23-!-KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:26<Luukland>Sigh, no-one is responding :p
15:26<Luukland>about 50 users, and no-one to help me :P
15:27<Chruker>patience, young one
15:27<Luukland>Haarrrr harrrr
15:29-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: gn8]
15:30<Luukland>Belugas, since you are developer, I am likely to get a good answer from you, are you avaiable?
15:31<Alberth>Nickman87: aside from some small code style issues, the patch looks nice. Unfortunately, I haven't done anything with key handling and filter stuff so far.
15:32<Alberth>Luukland: a common mistake is that developers know everything about the application they work on.
15:32<Luukland>I apologize, but still my problem excists
15:34<Alberth>Sorry, cannot help you, I never even entered a rcon command
15:34-!-Chris_Booth [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]]
15:34<Luukland>Maybe if I change the question a litte, how can you sent; command var command var
15:35<Luukland>I did command var "command "var""
15:35<Luukland>Which is obviously wrong
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15:35<Luukland>Ey Ey Muxy ;)
15:35<Muxy>luukland i'm here
15:35<Luukland>I need your help, I cant seem to be able to change my server name by use of rcon, since I cant sent; command var command var
15:36<Muxy>server name is changed in the cfg file.
15:36<Luukland>of course, but I would like to change it by use of rcon
15:36<Muxy>it's better because of console handling space
15:37<Luukland>Certainly ;) But I made mistake youknow ^^
15:37<Luukland>Now my server name is wrong
15:37<Muxy>or remote console is not the best way if you have space in your sever name
15:37<Luukland>I have space :p
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15:37<Nickman87>yeah, I have to check the code again for some style issues indeed Alberth :)
15:37<Muxy>the problem is you cant stop your server...
15:38<Luukland>But there is no way to sent it all the way?
15:38<Luukland>!Luukland's_Server! is the way it is now
15:39<Luukland>Since I can't use a space
15:39<Muxy>use underscore instead
15:39<Luukland>Hmm hmmm
15:40<Muxy>until you will have ssh access to your host
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15:40<Luukland>Dang :p
15:40<Luukland>Will contact server engineer again :P
15:41<Muxy>or request him a web interface like myottd
15:43<Nickman87>Alberth, is it possible to add padding inside of an edit box? Like, I want the text inside the edit box to be draw a single pixel lower
15:43<Nickman87>I think it sould look better on all the text boxes btw
15:43<Nickman87>now the text sticks to the top
15:43<Luukland>Muxy, I will do that :)
15:43<andythenorth>and I'm back
15:43<Luukland>Thx for your advice
15:43<Muxy>do what ?
15:44<andythenorth>I had a nice pizza and some carpaccio di manzo
15:44<Muxy>and me a maroille panini
15:44<andythenorth>did I miss anything? Are we still making Maglev Tycoon, or do I need to start drawing again?
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>draw a new maglev track :p
15:47-!-Muxy [] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT]
15:47<Alberth>Nickman87: the only way to change it is to change it everywhere, unless you do custom rendering.
15:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I could draw one that looks like two steel rails? And if railtypes ever ship, I could limit it to 120kmh...
15:48<Alberth>Nickman87: at the moment, I use values copied from the old widget array implementation.
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you need ships to ship railtypes :p
15:48<Alberth>Nickman87: current main concern is to get rid of the old widget arrays.
15:48<andythenorth>ships I have
15:48<andythenorth>roadtypes are my dream
15:49-!-Luukland [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, then you need to beat up petern to get your dream come true :)
15:49<Nickman87>Is there a list of unconverted files? Or just search for the old array structure? :D
15:50<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: where does petern live?
15:50<andythenorth>I'll be straight round there...
15:50<Alberth>it gets updated every now and then
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm, closer to you than to me, i presume ;)
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15:53<Nickman87>URL saved, when I'm in the mood I'll see if I can tackle another file ;)
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15:58<Nickman87>for the patch to possibly get submitted into trunk, should it be posted on flyspray? Or just keep updating the topic on the forum?
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16:09<Alberth>Nickman87: Both are possible, in general, patches are better preserved when submitted to fly spray. On the other hand, there are only very few users that find things in FS, I suspect.
16:09<Nickman87>A combination is possible too? :)
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16:10<Alberth>And of course the discussion at FS is limited to just technical stuff.
16:10<Alberth>yes of course it is.
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>you can put a forum link in the FS task description ;)
16:10<Nickman87>But since it is actually Zuu's patch, it's not realy up to me to push it towards trunk, unless he approves :)
16:10<Alberth>it may be better to first post at the forum and once it is stable enough, submit it.
16:11<Alberth>oh, and try to keep patches as small as possible and for a single purpose only.
16:11<Alberth>much like our commits.
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16:12<Alberth>I often build a patch queue to get some feature nicely partioned.
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16:18<SK3>did anyone read my guestion? Is it possible to generate a map and then edit it with the map editor?
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>yes. in the scemario editor, you can create a random map
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>along with random towns and random industries
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16:20<Nickman87>yeah, Zuu pointed me out to patch queue too, have to look into it :)
16:22<Alberth>basically, you need to stack several patches on top of each other, while still being able to change each of them. Doing that maually seems such a nightmare I don't even want to know.
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16:23<Alberth>the alternative is to first make the entire patch, then break it down in pieces while copying it to a new repo
16:24<frosch123>SK2: you can also rename every .sav to .scn and open it in scenario editor
16:24<Alberth>but you need a editor with diff capabilities then :p
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16:26<Alberth>bye all
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16:27<andythenorth>^^ doesn't like maths :D
16:30<andythenorth>more maths: I've drawn 9/16 of the ships I want to include in FISH v1
16:30<andythenorth>but I'm not doing the bloody smoke
16:33<frosch123>what kind of smoke?
16:34<SK2>ships with coal engine?
16:34<Lakie>From the chimies on earlier boats?
16:34<Lakie>Or possibly from diesel?
16:36<frosch123>then it is a good idea to save work on uninvented stuff
16:36<frosch123>which newgrf do not know
16:43<andythenorth>frosch123: I think the default train smoke would do very well for ship smoke :)
16:43<andythenorth>of course that would need implementing :|
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>didn't i read something about effect offset for ships in the newgrf wiki? or was that about the breakdown smoke?
16:50<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I can't see anything on action 0 for ships
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17:53<andythenorth>FISH FISH FISH...coming soon: log rafts :)
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18:05<Eddi|zuHause>how about a 14th century Hanse ship set?
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19:08<Rubidium>"You now have the subforum for 32 byte graphics, is that not enough?" <- did TB really make it that cool?
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21:50<JFBelugas>ho so quiet, isn't it?
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22:00<Eddi|zuHause>JFBelugas: it tends to do that at 4AM
22:01<JFBelugas>ho shooooo... the timer closed the light
22:05*JFBelugas is working4work@home
22:05<JFBelugas>lovely evening. again
22:14<JFBelugas>and now, all is over, and so am i
22:14<JFBelugas>night Eddi|zuHause
22:14*Sacro yawns
22:14<Sacro>could do some openttd
22:15<JFBelugas>ho... a live Ben!
22:15<Sacro>and ho
22:15<JFBelugas>bye Sacro
22:15<Sacro>a live... Belugas
22:15<Sacro>night mate
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22:21<welshdragon>Cow14: your spam is not appreciated here
22:23<Cow14>he did it so why can't i ? ^^^^^
22:23<welshdragon>as Sacro is my friend, and a retard
22:23<Cow14>oh that makes sense
22:24<welshdragon>in all seriousness, were an admin around both you and Sacro might have been given a /kick
22:24<welshdragon>or they might /kick the telltale tit...
22:25<Cow14>your on ottd coop public server?
22:25<welshdragon>i was
22:25<welshdragon>i've been busy
22:27<welshdragon>Sacro also just lost the Game
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23:55<Cow14>cya all
23:55-!-Cow14 [] has quit []
23:57<Pikka>I thought he'd never leave!
---Logclosed Sun Oct 11 00:00:58 2009