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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-14

---Logopened Wed Oct 14 00:00:28 2009
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03:24<Terkhen>good morning
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04:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17773 /trunk/src/ (sound/allegro_s.cpp video/allegro_v.cpp): -Cleanup: sdl.h isn't needed for allegro
04:20<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17774 /trunk/src/ (crashlog.cpp sdl.cpp sdl.h): -Codechange: show the version of the (dynamically) linked library instead of the one we compiled against in the crash log
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04:27<boekabart>heh, allegro ! didn't notice that yet... What's the reason for adding that? DOS, or does it have advantages over SDL (on some platforms)?
04:27*boekabart checked out allegro vs SDL for a TV settopbox client application last year
04:28*boekabart now wonders whether OpenTTD could run on that settopbox...
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04:28<boekabart>Rubidium: <boekabart> heh, allegro ! didn't notice that yet... What's the reason for adding that? DOS, or does it have advantages over SDL (on some platforms)?
04:29<boekabart>(and good morning, of course)
04:30<@Rubidium>trying to make a DOS port, which fails for some reasons outside of dosbox. Allegro's MIDI is in my opinion better (resource wise at least) than timidity
04:30<boekabart>you know that there is a DOS version of TTD right ... :P
04:31<@Rubidium>really? Didn't know that!
04:32<boekabart>but say, for a linux TV settopbox application, you wouldn't advise switching from SDL to allegro for performance reasons?
04:32<@Rubidium>I haven't done any speed checking between the both
04:33<@Rubidium>allegro doesn't seem to support resizing the window to arbitrary resolutions by dragging the window, so I'm (almost) never using it
04:36<boekabart>so you say 'doesn't work outside of dosbpx
04:37<boekabart>you're impying that you have an actual DOS machine ?
04:42<Pikka>doesn't everyone?
04:43<boekabart>almost.... but most of them are somewhere high up in an attick covered in dust
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09:13<@Belugas>morning al
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>morning peggy
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12:22<@Belugas>Brantwan is such a nice fellow... I quickly have to raise high the fact that neither NekoMaster nor Brantwan are prefect representative of the vast majority of canadians...
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12:40<frosch123> <- three pages of fun
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13:29<Luukland>Muxy? Goulp?
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17775 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt danish.txt unfinished/basque.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: basque - 119 changes by Thadah
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: danish - 2 changes by krak
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
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16:08<Hungarian1986>sorry, i was looking for those newGRFs
16:08<Hungarian1986>which has names put between <----- ----->
16:08<Hungarian1986>and they aren't on GRFcrawler
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>they are from the openttdcoop grf pack
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>they do nothing
16:09<Hungarian1986>yeah but the IS2 server needs them
16:09<Hungarian1986>zuHause = at home, auf Deutsch
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>get the coop pack
16:09<Hungarian1986>is it on GRFcrawler?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>easy to find via google ;)
16:10<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: do you ever go out?
16:10<Sacro>you've been zuHause for as long as I've known you
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: yes, but my computer does not come with me...
16:11<Hungarian1986>this is disadvantage of table computer
16:11<Hungarian1986>OTTD runs on laptops too...
16:11<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: ahh
16:11<Hungarian1986>i think even on a netbook :P
16:11<Sacro>so the computer is zuHause even if you aren't!
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>basically, yes
16:11<Hungarian1986>cause if you install some Linux on it, OTTD runs under linux too
16:11<@Rubidium>TTD even runs on 15 year old computers
16:12<Hungarian1986>but it is written in C++
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>well, it should, as it is 15 years old
16:12<Hungarian1986>so i think you can't run it under DOS
16:12<_ln>you are talking about two different things
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>C++ is even older than that
16:13<_ln>and yeah, why would C++ exclude DOS
16:13<Hungarian1986>btw is 7.3 the latest coop GRF?
16:13<Prof_Frink>Hungarian1986: OpenTTD has been known to run on a subnotebook significantly less powerful than current netbooks.
16:13<Hungarian1986>i thought C is older than DOS
16:13<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: OpenTTD won't run under DOS at the moment because the APIs (mostly SDL, I think?) it's written on don't have ports to dos.
16:13<@Rubidium>OTTD should run on those (old) computer too, as long as you run win95
16:14<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: but at least one person has been looking at porting it to run on Allegro, which would let it run under DOS. :)
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>MyCatVerbs: afair there's an unfinished dos port lying around. the problem was that it didn't run under a real dos, only under dosbox
16:14<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: C++ under DOS isn't a problem. There's a port of gcc and g++ to DOS which works just fine, called djgpp. :)
16:15<MyCatVerbs>Ah, I see. Oh well.
16:15<Hungarian1986>do i look like a programmer to you dudes?
16:15<MyCatVerbs>Yes, actually.
16:15<MyCatVerbs>Everyone on IRC does.
16:15<Hungarian1986>i only know a bit about Asian ladies
16:15<Hungarian1986>cause they are my favorite
16:15<Hungarian1986>i had a Chinese gf once
16:15<MyCatVerbs>It's a side effect of the fact that I'm looking at what you type via a terminal-based IRC client into which people enter teeeeeeeeeeeext.
16:16<Hungarian1986>as a Hungarian white guy it is a pretty bit achievement :)
16:16<fonsinchen>that doesn't make you look less like a programmer, don't even start it.
16:16<Hungarian1986>when i was 12 i played TT and TTD on an old 586(!!!) under DOS
16:17*Rhamphoryncus used to play on a 486/80 MHz
16:17<fonsinchen>386/33 here
16:17<Hungarian1986>586 was similar to 486 but it had 16 MByte RAM, 750 MByte HDD, 133 MHz CPU and 2 MByte VGA card :)
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>hey, i played TT on a 386/25
16:17*MyCatVerbs used to play on... huh, tell a lie, actually he hasn't played on anything older than an AMD K6. :/
16:17<Hungarian1986>so it was pre-pentium
16:17<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: nah, the CPU designs were surprisingly different. :D
16:18<Hungarian1986>the 586
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>it was hellishly slow after you bought more than a handful of trains
16:18<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: the term "586" refers exactly to the first line of Pentium CPUs. You might be a little confused? :)
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16:18*_ln didn't know a CPU could have a VGA card.
16:19<Hungarian1986>but i couldn't install newer Win on it back then, only Win95
16:19<Hungarian1986>and it had Turbo function
16:19<Rhamphoryncus>So I installed a nightly a few days ago and have been using it. I've just rebuilt from hg to provide more info for a bug report. It complains about a missing language pack. Moving into objs/ fixes that, but now it complains about missing graphics sets. How can I get it to use the already installed ones?
16:19<fonsinchen>Eddi|zuHause: yep, but soon after finding out about that I bricked the mainboard and upgraded to a _great_ 468/66, yeeeha!
16:19<Hungarian1986>what wasn't available on Pentiums
16:19<Prof_Frink>model name : Mobile Pentium MMX
16:19<Prof_Frink>cpu MHz : 166.643
16:20<MyCatVerbs>Prof_Frink: wow, nice. Is it coal-fired? :D
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: my father had a 486/60 and it played fine there. i later played it on a 486/25 laptop, and even there it was a lot faster
16:20<Hungarian1986>anyway, thx for the help
16:20<Prof_Frink>MyCatVerbs: Fanless actually
16:20<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: Hrmn? The old "turbo" button still appeared on Pentiums. :)
16:20<Hungarian1986>with finding those shitty GRFs :)
16:20<Prof_Frink>21:20:19 up 372 days, 3:34, 4 users, load average: 0.05, 0.02, 0.00
16:20<MyCatVerbs>Hungarian1986: all that does is, if you turn it off, deliberately slow the CPU down so that you can play old games which don't have proper timing delay loops. :)
16:21<Hungarian1986>yeah but Turbo lost their functionity, since it wasn't switching the CPU speed
16:21<Hungarian1986>i've seen some strange stuff back in the early 2000s
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>i threw away that 386 a couple of months ago
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16:21<Hungarian1986>when most ppl haven't got internet, and had 486, 586 or Pentium 1
16:21<Rhamphoryncus>c'mon, nostalgia's fine and all, but I have a serious question here ;)
16:22<SmatZ>[22:21:46] <Hungarian1986> when most ppl haven't got internet, <== the dark ages!
16:22<Hungarian1986>like playing old DOS-based games on PCs which had Win98 as OS
16:22<Hungarian1986>games were like light-speed :D
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16:23<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: missing language packs means that it didn't copy over the language files, possibly you compiled while having the game running
16:23<Hungarian1986>your finger hit the button for 0,0000001 sec and the object what it controlled moved like 100 kilometers :D:D:D
16:23<@Rubidium>Rhamphoryncus: MSVC? IIRC you got to copy the binary to the bin directory
16:24<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi|zuHause: didn't copy where? The readme.txt only mentions configure and make, not installation (or even if it's required)
16:24<fonsinchen>Rhamphoryncus: If it's GNU toolchain, you have to call it like bin/openttd from the main directory
16:24<Rhamphoryncus>Rubidium: linux, GCC
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: after compiling it copies the files from build/ to bin/, so if starting from build/ works, something in that step failed
16:25<Rhamphoryncus>hmm. No language pack complaint, but still the graphics set complaint
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: what is the exact error message?
16:25<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi|zuHause: no, changing dirs only got rid of the language pack part
16:25<Rhamphoryncus>Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD.
16:25<@Rubidium>Rhamphoryncus: try 'make run'
16:26<Rhamphoryncus>Rubidium: same thing
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: the graphics should go into ~/.openttd/data
16:26*Rubidium fears time skew somewhere
16:26<@Rubidium>making something not being generated properly
16:26<Hungarian1986>shit, i haven't been using IRC for ages
16:27<Hungarian1986>i used it when i had P2 Celeron 566 MHz with 15 GByte HDD and 128 MByte SD RAm... lol
16:27<Rhamphoryncus>Eddi|zuHause: that did it, thanks :)
16:27<Hungarian1986>i had KiWwi ISDN
16:27<Hungarian1986>64 k/s
16:27<Hungarian1986>it was a shit
16:27<@Rubidium>Rhamphoryncus: moving directories didn't rid you of the language pack error, it just errored earlier (not later)
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes ISDN felt faster than my current line
16:28<Rhamphoryncus>Rubidium: ah :)
16:28<Hungarian1986>slower than using dial-in on non-state owned phone infrastructure in the plains of Hungary :D
16:28<Hungarian1986>must ping something from a DOS console under Win98 :D
16:29<Hungarian1986>here KiWwl was one of the crappest internets in early 2000s
16:29<Muxy>fonsinchen: i will post the Goulp Patch for 0.7.3 in few minutes in tt-forums/dev
16:29<Hungarian1986>the rule then was that one dial to have internet connection stopped to count the price after 150 HUF
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16:29<Hungarian1986>so everyone used ping
16:30<fonsinchen>you had multiple internets back then? That must be funny ...
16:30<Hungarian1986>no i had ISDN
16:30<Hungarian1986>but ISDN was like a phone line... paying for the usage
16:31<Hungarian1986>not fixed monthly fee like DSL or CableNET
16:32<fonsinchen>Muxy, if you like I can build a debian amd64 binary from it then.
16:32<Noldo>it becomes fixed monthly fee if it's on all the time
16:32<Muxy>Yes please
16:32<Hungarian1986>do you know when will they put new developements into Trunk?
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16:32<Noldo>which ones?
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16:33<Nite_Owl>Hello all
16:33<Hungarian1986>like infrastructure sharing, traffic lights for roads, paths (dirt roads), etc. ?
16:33<Hungarian1986>oh, and signals on bridges :D
16:33<Muxy>fonsinchen, i'm testing code with a first compile
16:35<Rhamphoryncus>How about signals in tunnels, height changes in tunnels, and subway systems ;)
16:35<@Rubidium>when they are a) done, b) coding style compliant, c) done, d) is implemented in a sane and future proof manner, e) did I mention "when it's done"?, f) when a developer has the time to review it
16:36<_ln>the f) part takes 90% of the total time.
16:36<Muxy>fonsinchen, patch is ready at
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>usually the f) part invalidates a) to e), so the cycle starts again
16:43<Muxy>until the developer restart from scratch and the new code has nohting to do with a) and is more stronger and powerfull...
16:46<@Belugas>has it ever occured?
16:48<fonsinchen>what's the upload file size limit in the forum?
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16:49<Nite_Owl>2Mb I believe but I would not swear to that
16:49<@Rubidium>4MB IIRC
16:49<fonsinchen>4MB would be OK ... let's see
16:50<Muxy>may be you can send me the binary
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's usually enough to upload a binary with matching language pack
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16:53<fonsinchen>there you are
16:54<Muxy>i'm still there
16:54<fonsinchen>I mean, I have uploaded the binary to your forum topic :)
16:55<Muxy>thank you so much
16:56<Muxy>what do you think about the ehancements ?
16:57<fonsinchen>I haven't tried them.
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16:59<Muxy>fonsinchen, do you run a dedicated server then ?
16:59<@Belugas>time to run home...
16:59<@Belugas>night all
16:59<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
16:59<Muxy>bye Belugas
17:00<fonsinchen>no, but you requested the binary. Or Luukland did.
17:01<fonsinchen>And as there probably aren't many people here who can build amd64 lenny binaries I gave you a hand.
17:02<Muxy>well yes, thank you, but the patch can be build for other CPUs
17:03<fonsinchen>it can, but Luukland had a problem with his sysadmin which resulted in him needing that binary.
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17:10<Prof_Frink>Sacro: 2.01
17:10<Sacro>the game?
17:10<Sacro>or something else?
17:11<Prof_Frink>Yes, you just lost it.
17:11<_ln>an updated version of Sacro?
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17:18<andythenorth>I come, he goes :)
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17:21<fonsinchen>10.3They call me
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18:11<Terkhen>good nighr
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 15 00:00:26 2009