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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-15

---Logopened Thu Oct 15 00:00:26 2009
---Daychanged Thu Oct 15 2009
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00:18<Rhamphoryncus>I remember thinking years ago when playing ttd that previewing a vehicle increased the reliability it ultimately had. Is that true, or is it just a myth?
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02:18<planetmaker>good morning
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02:28<Terkhen>good morning
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07:10<@DorpsGek>Muxy: luukland was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 40 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Luukland> Muxy? Goulp?
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10:34<andythenorth>Hi Pikka
10:41<andythenorth>I am working out how to implement production-boosting cargos in FIRS
10:41<andythenorth>example: coal mine
10:41<andythenorth>supplying Engineering Supplies will increase production
10:42<andythenorth>but I need some help figuring out exactly how...
10:43<@Rubidium>I'd say: Action2Industries, operator 10 and variable 7C
10:45*andythenorth ttdpatch wiki time
10:46<andythenorth>I was thinking random production change
10:47<andythenorth>Probably increasing current production by 32 units if Engineering Supplies have been delivered...
10:48<andythenorth>In this way, players who consistently deliver engineering supplies will get *very* high production values, which is fun
10:48<@Rubidium>but what's going to consume those supplies?
10:48<boekabart>not realistic probably, but fun ;)
10:49<andythenorth>'Engineering' :)
10:49<boekabart>the miners in there, of course.
10:49<andythenorth>The supplies will get 'consumed' by the production callback
10:49<andythenorth>if no supplies are delivered in a month, production will fall by 32 units...
10:49<andythenorth>down to a minimum of 32 and up to a max of about 2000
10:50<boekabart>ow that sucks - means it basically becomes a 'converting' industry like.. factory
10:50<andythenorth>But much slower than the way a factory does it
10:50<andythenorth>month 1: coal mine is at 120t. You deliver supplies
10:50<andythenorth>coal mine increases production to 152t
10:50<@Rubidium>so delivering 1 a month for every month => high production, delivering 1000 in January, nothing in the rest of the year => very low production
10:51<andythenorth>Rubidium: yes, I guess.
10:51<andythenorth>Not ideal
10:51<boekabart>yes but play for some years, all coal mines will be at 32.
10:51<andythenorth>boekabart: correct
10:51<andythenorth>also not ideal
10:51<boekabart>i'd say: engineering supplies just add a bit to production
10:51<boekabart>like... they build an elevator or dig some extra tunnels
10:52<andythenorth>original plan was just to take multiply current production by 1.5 if supplies are delivered
10:52<@Rubidium>and increase the chance of production increase
10:52<boekabart>but.. they don't need it to operate day-to-day
10:52<andythenorth>partly i am stuck on what I can implement. I'm not good enough at nfo to do it right...
10:53<andythenorth>I can't do maths in nfo
10:53<andythenorth>I have trouble with registers
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11:03<andythenorth>How much influence over production at primary industries do we want?
11:03<andythenorth>Lots, or just a bit (with some randomness)?
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11:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how little? :)
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11:14<Pikka>andy: sorry, got disconnected
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid a feedback loop like in ECS Vectors might be a little vulnerable to fluctuation
11:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I've never successfully played a game with ECS Vectors :|
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>me neither ;)
11:15<@Belugas>feedback loop
11:15<andythenorth>hello Belugas
11:15*Sacro unplugs Belugas
11:15*Belugas bongs on desktop
11:15<Pikka>andy: I got your pm, I'll see if I can knock up something commented :P
11:15<andythenorth>Belugas: does your kid have an opinion on industry production?
11:16<andythenorth>probably as useful as anyone else's
11:16<andythenorth>More I can do
11:16<@Belugas>In the midnight hours
11:16<andythenorth>2048t as default for every industry, forget the production boosting cargos?
11:16<@Belugas>she cries
11:16<@Belugas>more more more
11:16<andythenorth>and only allow maglev?
11:17<andythenorth>Pikka: thanks
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>i'd like an 18th century industrial chain that produces like 1-4t per month, that you can handle with horses
11:18<Pikka>I'm just reading it and seeing if I can understand it myself :P
11:18<@Belugas>andythenorth, seriously, it might be a good idea. jsut don't know how easy it could be to be done
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>and the industrialisation starts with the introduction of railway into a region
11:19<@Belugas>nor if it would require some changes
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>over the course of the next 100 years, the industries get more and more effective
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>can you teach industries to start out only near a railway line?
11:24<Pikka>no, you can't. near a town, yes.
11:26<@Rubidium>Pikka: you can
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11:27<Pikka>I don't know how/if the town rating variables now work in OTTD, with the possibility of >8 companies... but it /might/ be possible to check if the nearby town rates transport companies.
11:27<Pikka>you can, Rubidium?
11:27<@Rubidium>callback 28 -> variable 62 -> bits of 'c'
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11:28<Pikka>ah, yes
11:28<Pikka>you can, then :)
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>because the early industrialisation really depended on rail lines
11:29<andythenorth>grr I got disconnected there :|
11:30<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what about canals / water transport?
11:30<andythenorth>early industrialisation really depended on water
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>basically until the automobile started to take over, which was at least one century later
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, that's an option, too
11:31<andythenorth>but rivers aren't in the map generator :)
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>that's the next problem i was going to mention ;)
11:31<andythenorth>these are good ideas though
11:31<andythenorth>FIRS will run a long way back, possibly pr 1800
11:31<andythenorth>pre *
11:32<andythenorth>there are lots of possibilities for controlling industry position and production in nfo
11:32<andythenorth>but above all it has to be fun :)
11:32<andythenorth>I do prefer when there's a pattern to where industries locate, as in PBI for example
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, and delivering 200t+ industries with horses is not fun ;)
11:33<andythenorth>but there will be 300t boats in FISH...
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>and 18th century boats were not that heavy either
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>they often were dragged by manpower
11:35<andythenorth>24t industries would be very appropriate
11:35<andythenorth>FIRS early industries will be things like the farms, blacksmith, windmill, dairy etc
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11:36<Eddi|zuHause>when i think of early industrialisation, weavers come into mind
11:36<andythenorth>the textile mill will exist early
11:36<andythenorth>it's quite big though
11:37<andythenorth>the glass works is also an early industry
11:37<andythenorth>and the brewery...important :)
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the textile mill sounds like a good idea for the first "big" industry
11:38<andythenorth>back to primary industry question...
11:38<andythenorth>I've thought about it, and it comes down to two options
11:39<andythenorth>1. deliver engineering supplies regularly and get large production increases / decreases
11:39<Pikka>andy: pm sent
11:39<andythenorth>2. deliver engineering supplies regularly and get small production increases / decreases
11:39<andythenorth>Pikka: thanks
11:39<Eddi|zuHause> <- inspiration for river boats ;)
11:41<andythenorth>being a volga boatman looks rubbish
11:41<@Belugas>[11:32] <andythenorth> I do prefer when there's a pattern to where industries locate, as in PBI for example <--- would be easy when the regions feature is done
11:41<@Belugas>for that, it needs to really kick in...
11:41<@Belugas>i'm such a lazy bum
11:41<andythenorth>Belugas: this regions feature sounds pretty exciting :D
11:42<@Belugas>oh it is indeed
11:42<andythenorth>Pikka: woah that code's doing a lot of smart stuff
11:42<@Belugas>what's more, i had it in mind for a while, and was abosultely stunned to see that Yexo did started it!
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, there's also this famous song about the wolga boatmen
11:43<@Belugas>"don't ship the mariner"?
11:43<andythenorth>Belugas: is there any documentation for it? I looked at trac, but what are regions intended to do?
11:44<@Belugas>"the rime of the Ancien Mariner"?
11:44<@Belugas>"Childern fo the sea"?
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11:44<@Belugas>andythenorth, there is a difference between what Yexo and i plan
11:44<@Belugas>but basically, it's the same
11:45<@Belugas>define some regions on the map
11:45<@Belugas>those regions can be assigned to different porpertis
11:45<@Belugas>like (in may case) cole regions, agriculture etc
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: please tell me that you know that song...
11:45<@Belugas>in Yexo's case, (iirc) it wouldbe usefull to define type of towns etc...
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11:46<@Belugas>no youtube at work, my poor Eddi|zuHause
11:46<@Belugas>and last time you gave me one, i felt unconscious watching it ;)
11:46<andythenorth>Belugas: sounds interesting
11:47<andythenorth>could certain industries *only* be built in certain regions?
11:47<@Belugas>so many interesting ideas i want to do in Open...
11:47<@Belugas>andythenorth, that is something i want to put forward indeed
11:48<@Belugas>thus cole regions...
11:48<@Belugas>dunno how yet
11:48<@Belugas>vaporware inmy case
11:50<andythenorth>Belugas: FIRS will / might include survey camps...primary industries have to be built near a survey camp.
11:50<andythenorth>Might achieve a similar result...
11:54<@Belugas>yeah, i guess
11:56<@Belugas>i am fucking frozen at my station
11:57<@Belugas>it's roughly 15 celcius
11:57<@Belugas>we are all wearig our coats
11:57<@Belugas>coffee does not help
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11:59<Eddi|zuHause>over here they invented heating for that...
11:59<andythenorth>would it be annoying if primary industry production never increases without engineering supplies?
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it should increase, but only slightly
12:00<andythenorth>ok so supplies need to be fun, but not essential
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12:01<andythenorth>I think doubling or halving industry production is silly
12:02<andythenorth>(looking at cb29)
12:03<andythenorth>hmm..not understanding how default production values work
12:03<andythenorth>how are they randomised?
12:03<andythenorth>do they persist, or does the random production change modify the defaults?
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'm thinking along the line of: with a steady supply of engineering supplies, you get a higher average change, and when you stop supplying, it falls back
12:04<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'm thinking the same
12:04<andythenorth>that's why I'm trying to understand how the defaults work
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12:04<Pikka>andy: there's a base number and a multiplier
12:04<andythenorth>I'm thinking like 1 in 8 chance of increase without supplies, maybe 1 in 2 with supplies
12:04<Pikka>the industries produce base^multiplier
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12:05<andythenorth>Pikka: for each instance of an industry?
12:05<andythenorth>so they are randomised on construction
12:05<andythenorth>(for base)
12:05<Pikka>the base is fixed
12:05<andythenorth>so the multiplier is what the random production change changes...
12:05<andythenorth>makes sense
12:06<andythenorth>if production < 1/4 base, industry closes?
12:06<Pikka>yeah, if the multiplier gets too low
12:07<andythenorth>Right I think I want to use cb 29 with value 0E
12:07<andythenorth>or cb 35
12:08*andythenorth needs to learn about random
12:08<Pikka>I don't know how often the "random production change" selects each industry
12:09<andythenorth>Pikka: I'll use cb 35 - the monthly
12:09<andythenorth>I want something like:
12:09<andythenorth>no supplies waiting: 1 in 8 chance of 32 unit prod increase
12:09<Pikka>I don't think cb35 existed when I started PBI... :o
12:09<andythenorth>supplies waiting: 1 in 2 chance of 32 unit prod increase
12:09<andythenorth>values subject to tweaking
12:09<Pikka>sounds fair enough
12:10<andythenorth>I can do random in python, but unfortunately python != nfo
12:10<Pikka>it's not too hard
12:12<andythenorth>looks like cb 29 has random bits
12:13<andythenorth>but I don't get how I do the equivalent of Math.floor(8 * Math.random()) to get a value in range 0 to 7
12:13<andythenorth>or am I thinking wrong about this?
12:14<Pikka>var 18 contains random bits
12:14<Pikka>so if you want to get a number from 0-7, just grab 3 bits from that var
12:15<Pikka>18 00 07 will give you the lowest 3
12:16<Pikka>(I assume cb35 has the same random bits, btw, since it says it works the same)
12:19<andythenorth>and then use the result in a varaction 2 as per usual?
12:20<andythenorth>I'd better go and write some pseudo code :)
12:20<Pikka>yep, that's right
12:22*andythenorth wonders how the bits are re-randomised...
12:22<andythenorth>thinking of doing a 1 in 8 chance of production increase, or decrease
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12:23<Pikka>I assume they're rerandomised every time the callback is called
12:23<Pikka>wouldn't be very useful in the callback otherwise
12:23<Pikka>1 in 8 increase, 1 in 8 decrease, 6 in 8 neither?
12:24<andythenorth>oh I get it
12:24<Pikka>18 00 07 02 <increase> 00 00 <decrease> 01 01 <neither>
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12:25<andythenorth>back to the pseudo code...
12:25<andythenorth>Pikka: maybe you and frosch123 should take shifts on nfo consultancy :)
12:25<Pikka>I thought we did? :P
12:26<@Rubidium>don't forget the other nfo consultant
12:26<andythenorth>Rubidium: I think there are several :)
12:26<andythenorth>all very very helpful
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12:31<Pikka>heh @ Whos
12:31<Pikka>this is the guy who wanted to hide the IP address of his server
12:32<blathijs>So he couldn't be "hacked" or something? :-)
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>"please call me, but i won't give you my phone number"
12:33<@Belugas>feels like mb...
12:33<@Belugas>no pms, just emails
12:33<@Belugas>and... where is your address???
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12:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, that was fairly easy to figure out, but that email is gone now
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12:34<blathijs>Eddi|zuHause: You should use the operator service then, since they'll just connect you without telling you the number :-p
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's called "port forwarding" ;)
12:36<blathijs>Or an open proxy :-p
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12:38<Pikka>my point is that he wanted to hide the IP address of his server, and now he's started a new thread complaining that his server doesn't work "because he's finding wrong IP adress". :)
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12:44<SpComb>yay, I referenced the OpenTTD wiki in my coursework assignment
12:44<SpComb>"The solution is modeled on the author's extensive experience building train networks in Transport Tycoon, being to some degree a limited, simplified implementation of “Path Signals” as present in newer versions of OpenTTD"
12:46<andythenorth>does 0D increase *production* by 1, or the production *multiplier* by 1?
12:46<nicfer1>hmmm, may run openttd on pandora?
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12:47<frosch123>andythenorth: the multiplier
12:47<andythenorth>that's more useful for me
12:47<andythenorth>and hello frosch123
12:48<andythenorth>you've come just at the right time :D
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: maybe this is more helpful for you than youtube: (upper one) ;)
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12:49<nicfer1>that uses a 600mhz arm processor, 256mb of ram, an powerful, opengl 2.0ES-compliant graphics card and a physical keyboard/joystick (1 digital and 2 analog nubs and four keys)
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds sufficient
12:52<nicfer1>hmmm... is 'faster' 600mhz for arm processors than 600mhz on x86 processors?
12:52<nicfer1>or is that incomparable?
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know enough about arm for that...
12:52<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, i'm sorry to disappoint you. I cannot read partitions like that. only tablatures. i know my notes, but i totally forgot what they represent on that writing
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>most likely completely incomparable
12:54<fjb>nicfer1: ARM should be faster than x86.
12:54<@Belugas>i kow my scales too.... dorian, phrygian etc... etc... but read notes... naaaa.. i was able at one point. i played violin way back then (from 6 to 12 years) then mother Rock Guitar called me and blew me away from that field
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12:54<andythenorth>lets see if I broke the game
12:59<andythenorth>cb35 won't work if not enabled in action 0 (forehead slap)
13:01<andythenorth>need to set bit values 4, 20, and 80.
13:01<andythenorth>how do I do that :O
13:01<andythenorth>I get 04 01 which is not a byte
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>you do know that 20+80=A0?
13:02<andythenorth>then + 4 = A4
13:02<andythenorth>cookie for Eddi|zuHause
13:03<@Rubidium>\b104 ?
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no, that is not what he wants ;)
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13:05<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: why not?
13:05<@Rubidium>4 + 20 + 80 = 104 and let grfcodec convert that to hex using \b<dec>
13:06-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09<frosch123>iirc there was some unfinished feature that allowed \b(4 20 80 + +)
13:09*fjb doesn't think that 80 decimal is the same as 80 hex.
13:09<frosch123>err \b(0x04 0x20 0x80 + +)
13:10<@Rubidium>hmm, that's a good point ;)
13:13<nicfer1>(14:09:22) frosch123: iirc there was some unfinished feature that allowed \b(4 20 80 + +)
13:13<nicfer1>(14:09:23) ***fjb doesn't think that 80 decimal is the same as 80 hex.
13:13<nicfer1>how comes that there's one second of difference between those messages?
13:13<nicfer1>if fjb so fast?
13:13<andythenorth>I build my code up in stages....if I've understood that pastebin code correctly, industry should reduce production pretty fast
13:13<@Rubidium>1) network lag
13:14<@Rubidium>2) he replied to someone else
13:14<frosch123>nicfer1: don't ignore rb
13:14<andythenorth>returning 08 to cb 29 decreases production by 32
13:14<@Rubidium>3) with frosch123 you need quick reflexes if you want to wish him a good night
13:14<andythenorth>only in game, it doesn't :|
13:14*fjb is fast.
13:14<nicfer1>oh I understand
13:15-!-TrainzStoffe [] has joined #openttd
13:15<nicfer1>happened to me in various IRC channels
13:15<nicfer1>must be the international connection latency
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13:17<fjb>nicfer1: The reply was to Rubidium but was also suitable to frosch123.
13:18<nicfer1>aha there's the problem
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13:22<Pikka>andy: industries only run cb29 when they're picked by the random production changer, that doesn't happen every month for every industry. also, is there an action 0 bit for cb29?
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13:23*andythenorth slaps self on forehead (again)
13:24<andythenorth>tries with cb 35
13:24<andythenorth>Pikka: yes there is an action 0 bit for cb29 and cb 35
13:25<andythenorth>yay result
13:25<andythenorth>every iron mine just closed
13:25<andythenorth>returning 08 to cb 35 is pretty brutal :)
13:26<andythenorth>could be time for a celebration tea
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13:34<MyCatVerbs>Hey Andy. I thought the iron mines always closed all by themselves in practice? :)
13:40<andythenorth>04 Do the standard random production change as if this industry was a primary one.
13:40<andythenorth>but what is the standard random production change?
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13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17776 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Codechange: [SDL] make "update the video card"-process asynchronious. Profiling
13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: with gprof etc. hasn't shown us that DrawSurfaceToScreen takes a significant
13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: amount of CPU; only using TIC/TOC it became apparant that it was a heavy
13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: CPU-cycle user or that it was waiting for something.
13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: The benefit of making this function asynchronious ranges from 2%-25% (real time)
13:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: during fast forward on dual core/hyperthreading-enabled CPUs; 8bpp improvements
13:41<Pikka>andy: it randomly doubles or halves or neithers the production, or increases/decreases by 1 in OTTD with smooth economy.
13:42<andythenorth>Pikka: ta very much
13:42<andythenorth>I think this is going to be pretty simple then
13:42<andythenorth>no supplies supplied: let the game do production changes
13:43-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:43<andythenorth>supplies supplied: random chance of production increase
13:43-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:44<Sacro>your mum is asyncronous
13:44-!-boekabart is now known as asyncronouss_son
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17777 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: basque - 7 changes by Thadah
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: danish - 8 changes by krak
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: greek - 47 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: thai - 43 changes by sf_alpha
13:45<asyncronouss_son>happy r17777 everyone!
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13:49<andythenorth>why would industry production decrease if I am controlling both the random change cb and monthly production change cb?
13:49<andythenorth>(assume I am only increasing with my code)
13:49-!-asyncronouss_son is now known as boekabart
13:50<Pikka>it wouldn't
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13:51<andythenorth>must be doing something wrong then :)
13:51<Terkhen>good evening
13:51<_ln>buenas tardes
13:51<Pikka>how are you gentlemen
13:53<andythenorth>iron ore mine: month 1 80t
13:53<andythenorth>month 2 90t
13:53<andythenorth>month 2 and a bit: 88t
13:53<andythenorth>month 3 99t
13:54<andythenorth>but I have no code for decrease, and I think I'm handling all production change cbs
13:54<andythenorth>nothing is being transported...
13:54<@Rubidium>months don't have a set number of production moments
13:54<@Rubidium>some months have 8, others 9 (or something like that)
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13:54<andythenorth>makes perfect sense
13:55<andythenorth>I need a faster 'fast forward' in game :D
13:55<Pikka>turn off "full animation", that speeds it up quite a lot
13:55<@Belugas>would make more sens to collect data on a yearly basis
13:56<@Belugas>you are running a 256*256 map
13:56<boekabart>and update to 17776, 2% - 25% difference !
13:56<@Belugas>then you'll be truely monthly
13:56<@Rubidium>use r17776+ + disable full animation + disable full detail + use sdl + use 32bpp + use a small map + use a small resolution + zoom in + scroll to a corner
13:56<andythenorth>just turning off full animation is scarily faster!
13:57<@Rubidium>oh, disable autosave
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14:04<Pikka>get out you fools!
14:04-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
14:04<Pikka>come back you fools!
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14:06<Pikka>hello Alberth
14:06<Alberth>hello Pikka :)
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14:13<andythenorth>hey it's kind of working
14:13<andythenorth>it being production boosting
14:14<MH-Nick>hey guys,
14:14<MH-Nick>first time playing multiplayer but having version mismatch problems
14:14<MH-Nick>just upgraded to 0.7.3, and trying to join a game with the same but still seeing the version mismatch,
14:14<MH-Nick>anything i'm missing?
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14:16<b_jonas>I should try openttd once
14:16<@Rubidium>in the window where you see that version mismatch error, what version of OpenTTD does it say the server is running?
14:16<MH-Nick>the same, 0.7.3
14:17<@Rubidium>how's the server called?
14:17<@Rubidium>and is the error really "version mismatch" or is it something else?
14:18<MH-Nick>an eg. one i'm looking at is !!!Luukland's Server!!! - I'm seeing the 'version mismatch' error and the Join button is shaded out
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>MH-Nick: what does your title bar say which version you have?
14:20<MH-Nick>hm, its reading its off as r14550
14:20<@Rubidium>then you're definitely not running 0.7.3 :)
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>then that's not 0.7.3
14:20<MH-Nick>ye.. :/
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14:23<Alberth>b_jonas: before you know it, you're hooked to the game ;)
14:23<b_jonas>I'm already hooked to ttd, and I'm playing ttdpatch right now
14:23<b_jonas>and I'm trying to understand how to use presignals
14:24<MH-Nick>ah ha :)
14:24<MH-Nick>reinstalled the updated and its working fine
14:24<MH-Nick>cheers guys
14:25<b_jonas>or in general how I should set up this goods transport where I want to run three trains but I can only use two tracks
14:25<fjb>Presignals become green when one exitsignal becomes green.
14:26<b_jonas>I want to know if I can use presignals in cases where the stations are large enough but I can't use enough tracks
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14:26<b_jonas>the simplest method would be to just buy the pink company that's blocking my way and then I can build a triple track
14:26<fjb>You don't need a track for each train.
14:27<b_jonas>sure I don't
14:27<Alberth>b_jonas: nah, that's too easy :)
14:27<b_jonas>I can do that without pre-signals as well
14:27<b_jonas>but I wonder if pre-signals give a better way
14:27<boekabart>shouldn't PBS signals help you enough?
14:27<b_jonas>boekabart: yeah, those would certainly help
14:27<fjb>boekabart: He is usinf TTDRatch.
14:27<b_jonas>but this is only ttdpatch
14:27<Alberth>they can make a train wait *before* the junction
14:28<andythenorth>looks like I need to learn something about variable scope in varaction 2 chains...
14:28<b_jonas>I will try PBS in openttd certainly
14:28<@Rubidium>fjb: ttdpatch has more signal types than openttd
14:29<fjb>Rubidium: Yes, but PBS is associated with YAPP in my brain.
14:29<b_jonas>PBS would help a great deal in that I can run three or four trains on two tracks in such a way that one breaking down can't block the path for the others
14:29<b_jonas>I think I can't do that without PBS
14:29<b_jonas>I mean in a way that if one breaks down then _any_ other can still pass
14:34<b_jonas>I also want signal-less depots but ttdpatch can't give those to me either
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14:34<fjb>There should be examples in the TTDPatch wiki.
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14:35<b_jonas>there's a good example savegame with two stations with presignals
14:37<andythenorth>would there be an easy way to show the current industry production multiplier in the industry window
14:37<@Rubidium>andythenorth: depends on what you call easy
14:37<andythenorth>copy and paste :P
14:37<andythenorth>I guess I go and look in the savegame internals right?
14:38<@Rubidium>andythenorth: anyhow... callback 3a
14:38<andythenorth>there's nothing here
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14:51<b_jonas>the greatest feature I like in ttdpatch is the hotkeys for the buttons of the train and road toolbars
14:52<b_jonas>and openttd has that too
14:52-!-Muxy [] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT]
14:52*Rubidium reckons TTD has them too
14:54<SpComb>OpenTTD's Path-Signals are different (and better) than TTDPatch's PBS signals
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>even TT had these hotkeys
14:57<@Belugas>the greatest feature i like in TTD is that you can have trains and planes and trucks and ships
14:57<@Belugas>wow... that is soooo cool
14:57<_ln>not to mention, soooo realistic
14:58<@Belugas>you want a kick? you want one? please... say so!
14:59-!-_ln was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [SO!!!!!]
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14:59<_ln>Belugas: wasn't unrealistic to expect that.
15:02<@Rubidium>so... time to make some dinner? so desu
15:04<b_jonas>Rubidium: they have only 1-4
15:04<b_jonas>ttdpatch has more
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15:05<b_jonas>it has ` for dozer, 5 for dinamite, 6 for raise, 7 for lower, 8 for depot, 9 for station, 0 for signal, - for bridge, = for tunnel, \ for buy land
15:05<b_jonas>just 1 to 4 isn't enough
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15:09<TrueBrain>this is #openttd, right?
15:11<TrueBrain>fair enough ;)
15:11<@Belugas>naaaa... it's #reality_check
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like this is more off-topic than the usual talk around here :p
15:11*TrueBrain hugs Belugas
15:12<b_jonas>TrueBrain: yep
15:13<b_jonas>TrueBrain: I'm explaining why I should try openttd later
15:13<b_jonas>it has those hotkeys too
15:13<TrueBrain>yes, that is indeed the only good reason :)
15:13<TrueBrain>in the years I read many reasons .. but this one makes it to the top10 (not number 1 :p)
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15:23<TrueBrain>"AH! A BEAR!" - "AH! A BLACK PERSON!"
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>the cleveland show might get funny ;)
15:24<TrueBrain>I love the intro: "And HE gets his own show?!"
15:24<TrueBrain>"I misread a signal, it happens!"
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: did you watch the matching family guy episode yet? :p
15:25<TrueBrain>I don't really watch family guy .. only when I am really bored
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15:31<insulfrog>hi all
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15:41<_ln>ok, that was return, not backspace.
15:41<_ln>anyway, it is illegal to drink alcohol on the streets of amsterdam?
15:41-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:44<andythenorth>stupid stupid ISP
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15:47<boekabart>_ln: it might be on some, but only i case there is a local (street/area) restriction
15:48-!-davis [] has joined #openttd
15:49<andythenorth>Which is better:
15:49<andythenorth>1. industry production increases if Engineering Supplies waiting to be processed
15:49<andythenorth>2. industry production increases if Engineering Supplies delivered in last 30 days
15:50<davis>are there any "good" openttd servers asides from openttdcoop , i kind of remember "brianettas standard" with UKRS(?) but seems like it went offline a while ago // sorry for crosschatting.
15:50<_ln>boekabart: ok, thanks, i was watching some tv documentary which made the simplification that it's simply illegal.
15:51<TrueBrain>boekabart: "open dronkenschap" is still illegal ;)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: how about: you consume 1 engineering supply every 30 days?
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15:54<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it will be something like that, but the processing callback and the production change callback are pretty disconnected
15:54<andythenorth>I don't want to get into storing things in registers....
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>davis: i suggest sorting the servers for number of clients ;)
15:55<andythenorth>this is to decide the production change multiplier
15:55<andythenorth>not just the production for 1 month
15:55<davis>well it's not about clients , rather about , uhm
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>davis: should give you a pretty decent idea about "good" servers
15:55<davis>some certain level?
15:55<davis>well as in servers with players from irc
15:55<davis>servers that arn't full of people that terraform the whole map
15:56<davis>a good selection of newgrf would be a plus aswell :p
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15:57<@Rubidium>oh... I had a server without people who terraformed the whole map a while ago
15:58<davis>maybe it's not only the server , even though i love newgrf. i miss servers with thoughtful players
15:58<@Rubidium>although you'd probably run away screaming :)
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>you ran a toyland server? :p
15:59<@Rubidium>no, a 0.3.5 server
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>ah, yes, i remember ;)
16:01<Zuu>Which is then understandable that nobody came there and terafromed it to death. Nobody would go to the extent of obtaining a 0.3.5 client just to do that. :-)
16:02<@Rubidium>it probably didn't even have draggable leveling ;)
16:02<TrueBrain>Rubidium: so you suggest that we all play a few versions below the latest stable? :)
16:03<@Rubidium>if 'stable' includes the nightlies, then why not :)
16:03<@Rubidium>(at least if you want OSX clients)
16:03<Zuu>Low enough that there are not just some random people who have forgot to update their clients.
16:04-!-Muxy [] has joined #openttd
16:05<Zuu>Playing on non-nightly versions is probably also quite effective since then everyone has to compile themself. Though that is a bit tedious depending on how frequent updates are made.
16:06<davis>optional someone could setup another server and make it similear to the coop system , e.g requesting password via irc
16:06*davis shrugs
16:07*Zuu liked when he got a special URL to retreive the password. Unfortuatelly Ammler removed that one after a year or something. :-)
16:07-!-andythenorth_ [~andy@] has joined #openttd
16:07<andythenorth_>grr everytime I want to ask an nfo question I get timed out
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>so what was the question?
16:09-!-FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
16:10<Zuu>That said I don't really see a problem of having to join an IRC channel to retreive the password for a game server.
16:11<davis>Well , assuming that the "irc community" has more knowledge in/with openttd than the average public player
16:11<davis>it might raise the quality level of an "public" game
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16:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17778 /trunk/src/debug.h: -Fix: remove unneeded newline from 'TOC' debug lines.
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16:38<Pikka>davis: yeah, I miss brianetta's servers, and petern's server...
16:39<Pikka>wb andy
16:39<Brianetta>Pikka: You and Sacro are the only ones who've ever even commented, to my knowledge.
16:39<andythenorth>grr internet
16:40<andythenorth>my ADSL doesn't like the rain
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16:40<andythenorth>I've put an nfo question on the forums
16:41<Pikka>sorry Brianetta. :o fwiw scuddles was saying the same thing on steam not long ago
16:42<Pikka>andy: I do exactly that in the iron ore mine example I sent you
16:42<andythenorth>Pikka: I'm just reading that now...
16:43<Pikka>a flag to do something only once a month. if I'm reading what you want to do correctly. :)
16:43<andythenorth>sort of
16:43*Pikka reads more carefully
16:43<andythenorth>more a flag to say 'there was cargo waiting this month'
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16:44<Pikka>in that case... even easier...
16:44*Pikka wikis
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16:47<Pikka>I'd say set a flag during the production callback
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16:47<Pikka>I'd say set a flag during the production callback
16:47<Pikka>and then check/clear it in the monthly?
16:47<andythenorth_>using the grebs logs as my irc client sucks :P
16:47<andythenorth_>Pikka: yep
16:48*andythenorth_ scared of registers
16:48<@Belugas>me too...
16:48<@Belugas>sales registers that is...
16:48<Pikka>there's nothing to 'em
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16:49<Pikka>you write to them by calculating the value, then use an advanced 2 operator 10 and var 1A 00 <register #>
16:49<Pikka>and you read them just like any other action 2 variable
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16:55<Pikka>speaking of drawing, I don't suppose you have the coaster hull with no superstructure, do you? I was thinking of trying to turn it into a generic 19th century sailing ship
16:56<Pikka>it wouldn't be too hard to take it off myself, of course :)
16:57*davis =)
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16:57<Pikka>there he goes
16:57<Pikka>there he goes again
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16:57<davis>he'll be back , maybe.
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16:58<andythenorth>Pikka: I'll have a look
16:58<Sacro>Brianetta: revive the server :(
16:58<Sacro>ooh, monospace font with cyrillics
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16:59<Pikka>Brianetta: when is ready for testing, perhaps? :P
17:01<davis>what set is that , ukrs?
17:01<davis>haha , help me out then
17:01<davis>i didn't play in ages.
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17:02<Pikka>it's a set that's not been released or publically discussed yet, so it wouldn't help if you had :P
17:02<frosch123>railroad tycoon had "mogul" in america and "spinner" in uk iirc
17:02<Pikka>mogul is the general term for a 2-6-0, frosch
17:03*frosch123 knew he had no clue
17:03<davis>ah , thanks. :)
17:03<Pikka>and spinner for british 4-2-2s, particularly the midland 115 class
17:03<Pikka>NARS has a 2-6-0 Mogul too :)
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>4-2-2 sounds like a weird setup..
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>one driven axle and 3 undriven ones...
17:05<Pikka>plenty of speed 'cause they didn't lose much to friction, no coupling rods. but rather poor TE. :)
17:05<Pikka>locomotion's 4-2-2 is a
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>i never played locomotion
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17:06<_ln>i bought locomotion as soon as it was released, and...
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17:07<Eddi|zuHause>i have a locomotion CD that my brother gave me...
17:07<andythenorth>ah ha
17:07<Pikka>I have the music from locomotion in my TTD playlist... that's about all it's good for. :P
17:07<andythenorth>Pikka: still scared of registers
17:08<andythenorth>got a branching action2 chain hack for the same result
17:08<_ln>and I wonder if they still haven't released a fixpak that would fix the flaws of UI.
17:08<andythenorth>but I think it's lame to duck the issue :P
17:08<insulfrog>I quite like locomotion becaue you have a bit more flexability in creating unique junctions and station placement
17:09<andythenorth>going to try setting the flag
17:09<_ln>locomotion certainly has some advantages and nice ideas compared to *TTD.
17:10<andythenorth>so instead of returning a result, or an action 2 id, I just write to the register?
17:10<andythenorth>crazy talk
17:10<insulfrog>one junction you can have in locomotion is the '4 level stack interchange'
17:10<Pikka>you still have to return a result...
17:11<andythenorth>oh poop
17:11<andythenorth>as we say in the north
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17:12<Pikka>the writing to the register happens as part of the adv. 2 calculating
17:13<Pikka>thanks for the link :)
17:13<andythenorth>If I branch an action 2 chain, will everyone else promise not to notice?
17:13<andythenorth>even though I should do things properly
17:14<Pikka>what's wrong with branching an action 2 chain?
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17:14<andythenorth>but it does create spaghetti code
17:15<Pikka>not really
17:16<Pikka>but maybe we're thinking of different things :P
17:16<andythenorth>I'll stick my code on the forum in a minute...if it works
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17:21<davis>"Both OpenTTD and TTDPatch are not totally standalone games—while OpenTTD does not need the Transport Tycoon Deluxe executables, it needs the game's graphics files"
17:21<davis>is that still valid , due opengfx?
17:22<@Rubidium>it is still valid for 0.7, it isn't valid for trunk anymore (with opengfx + opensfx or nosound)
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17:23<davis>ah okay
17:24<Pikka>btw andy, you need a fish link in your sig
17:26<andythenorth>"FISH is Ships"
17:27<Pikka>yeah, I got to the thread via your website. :P
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>nobody cared
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17:32<Pikka>now now...
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17:35*davis slaps Pikka around a bit with a large trout
17:35<davis>let's force Bri*anetta to re-open his server
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17:36<Pikka>you first
17:36<davis> Age before beauty.
17:37<davis>go ahead :p
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17:47<Pikka>code looks quite reasonable, andy :P
17:48<Pikka>not dissimilar to what I do with my stockpiling... the more there is waiting, the faster it gets processed :)
17:50<andythenorth>well I might stick with it because it works and it doesn't make my brain hurt
17:51<Zuu>andythenorth "FISH is Ships" <-- not "FISH n Ships"? :-)
17:51<andythenorth>ok bedtime
17:51<andythenorth>final scores: nfo 2, /me 1
17:51<andythenorth>so I lose
17:52<andythenorth>but tomorrow is another day!
17:53<Zuu>Yea, then the scores are reset again :-)
17:53<andythenorth>one day someone will do something sane, like implement a python - nfo compiler
17:53<andythenorth>and world peace
17:53<@Rubidium>but... tomorrow starts in 7 minutes if you accept my timezone :)
17:54<andythenorth>well I'd better get some sleep before tomorrow comes then.
17:54<andythenorth>good night
17:54<@Rubidium>python and sane :)
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17:55<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> one day someone will do something sane, like implement a python - nfo compiler <-- hey, i did something like that ;)
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>only i did not get to the varaction2 part
18:00<Terkhen>good night
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause>the problem with basing it on python is that python has no "case" statement, but that is the fundamental structure of a varaction2
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18:31<Sacro>where do all the cool kids play openttd now?
18:32<@Rubidium>at home?
18:32<@Rubidium>although probably... not?
18:32<Sacro>which server :(
18:32*Sacro misses Brianetta's Standard :(
18:33<Sacro>i want some UKRS action
18:35*insulfrog is creating a nice huge network :D
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19:24<insulfrog>well, time for me to goto bed, night all :)
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19:36<@Rubidium>bye Stoffe
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---Logclosed Fri Oct 16 00:00:28 2009