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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-20

---Logopened Tue Oct 20 00:00:02 2009
---Daychanged Tue Oct 20 2009
00:00<George>Can't update a GRF at bananas - "Unexpected error while uploading."
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01:57<Rhamphoryncus>Any tricks to get trucks to spread between stations? I've currently got a 3x3, but they prefer to build a giant backlog for 1
01:57<Rhamphoryncus>Particularly bad if they're all unloading and the front vehicle is loading
01:59<Rhamphoryncus>and they always refuse to pass each other..
02:08<boekabart>screenshot to 'explain' ?
02:09<Forked>|_|_|_| <- three truck stops. They only use one of them (if I understood the question correct)
02:09<Forked>Rhamphoryncus: maybe seperate load and unload with waypoint?
02:10<Rhamphoryncus>I don't seem to have waypoints for trucks
02:11<Forked>hm, I haven't played in some months.. you might be right there
02:11<Rhamphoryncus>I actually have a 3x3 block, supposedly to handle the load. Occasionally they'll use the 2nd or 3rd, but they vastly prefer the 1st
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02:17<Rhamphoryncus>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3275
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02:59<Rhamphoryncus>heh another station managed to deadlock itself. 4 goods trucks all waiting to load, with grain, livestock, and steel waiting behind them
02:59<boekabart>Rhamphoryncus: could it be that the 3x3 f's it up?
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03:00<boekabart>and eh, have you heard of Shared Orders?
03:00<boekabart>multiple vehicles can share the same order, saves you a LOT of work
03:06<Rhamphoryncus>most of those are shared
03:07<Rhamphoryncus>Might be an orientation thing. I've turned it all and they're not doing it
03:20<Rhamphoryncus>Not really my bug, but it'd be nice if they had a penalty for waiting behind someone who's loading something different from you
03:21<planetmaker>[08:10] <Rhamphoryncus> I don't seem to have waypoints for trucks <-- you do: just another, separate station with "go via" orders in the vehicles' orders
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03:35<Rhamphoryncus>ahh
03:36<dihedral>hey ho pm
03:36<Forked>can also have seperate stations for loading and unloading
03:39<boekabart>indeed: penalty is no deadlock-proof
03:39<boekabart>it might just make it improbable
03:39<boekabart>but also very inpredictable
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03:52<Rhamphoryncus>Forked: pretty hard to do. It'd be easier to have entirely separate road networks to the same station
03:54<Rhamphoryncus>boekabart: depends. If you have as many queues as load types, long enough in each queue for all the vehicles of that type, and it consistently picks the right queue, I don't see a problem
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04:03<planetmaker>hey ho, dih :-)
04:04<dihedral>hehe - rv's? use go via dtrs
04:04<dihedral>:-)
04:05<dihedral>then you can force a queue
04:20<welshdragon>can somebody throw Nekomaster a dictionary?
04:21<welshdragon>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45568&start=0 < custom doesn't need an E in it
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04:27<boekabart>welshdragon: and that's not all that can be said about him
04:27<welshdragon>:)
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04:27<Terkhen>good morning
04:29<dihedral>welshdragon, you complain about his spelling??
04:29<dihedral>c'mon
04:29<dihedral>you have so many international people there
04:29<dihedral>look at alains posts :-P
04:29<welshdragon>well yes
04:29<dihedral>and consider again if the e in custom is such an issue :-P
04:30<welshdragon>Alain's is appaling!
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04:32<boekabart>i was more referring to his .. inability to follow a frikkin tutorial...
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04:46<dihedral>boekabart, that matches close to 80% of tt-forum users (if not more!)
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06:49<@Rubidium>so Sacro got his package a few days too early?
06:52<boekabart>Rubidium: sorry , third time: did you get my remark about the MakeWater() fn name? (that it should be called MakeSea(), just like the Is-fn is called IsSea()
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06:53<@Rubidium>not really
06:53<boekabart>it should not really or you didn't really get it :)
06:54<boekabart>(get as in: receive)
06:54<@Rubidium>didn't get it; I saw it but forgot about it again
06:54<boekabart>(or get as in: understand)
06:55<boekabart>ok then. So the idea is that you have IsCanal IsSea and IsRiver, but MakeCanal, MakeRiver and MakeWater
06:55<boekabart>(where MakeWater doesn't do smth generic, just makes the tile Sea)
06:58<Sacro>Rubidium: package?
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06:58<Sacro>welshdragon: alain's *are* appaling
06:58<@Rubidium>Sacro: your Windows 7 installation CD
06:58<Sacro>no, MSDNAA
06:59<@Rubidium>as per http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49303983,00.htm
06:59<Sacro>no no, i'm a CS student, MSDNAA access
06:59<Sacro>had it for months just never got around to it
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07:00<Sacro>nice having it for free
07:00<Sacro>as well as VS, OneNote
07:00<Sacro>shame we don't get office :(
07:00<@Rubidium>students ought not to use office but VCS+latex!
07:01<boekabart>aren't most students eligible to purchase office for like 10 euros through most universities?
07:01<boekabart>Rubidium: I'm trying to tell my (student) wife that, but she refuses....
07:02<Sacro>VCS?
07:02<Sacro>I use Lyx and TexLive
07:02<TrueBrain>VCS === Version Control System
07:02<boekabart>or a type of atari
07:03<boekabart>or maybe Rb was referring to Visual C-Sharp?
07:03<TrueBrain>hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
07:03<Sacro>I do use Visual C#
07:03<Sacro>love it
07:03<Sacro>and i use mercurial
07:04<@Rubidium>first of all, I'd never call it C-Sharp, but C-Hash
07:04<boekabart>Rubidium: that's because you're not a musician
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07:04<@Rubidium>no, because it's a hash of crap
07:04*boekabart feels a flamewar coming!!!
07:05<TrueBrain>a ware requires someone saying it isn't a hash of crap
07:05<TrueBrain>ware = war
07:05<@Rubidium>let me tell you that the last time I used it I've used some APIs that aren't quite .NET-ish
07:05<boekabart>Sacro just did that
07:05<TrueBrain>he just said he likes a hash of crap
07:05<Sacro>wha?
07:05<Sacro>it's sharp not hash
07:05<@Rubidium>boekabart: no, Sacro said he loved it
07:06<@Rubidium>you can still love something that is crap, e.g. DSB
07:06<TrueBrain>you love DSB?
07:06<boekabart>Rubidium said you COULD
07:06<boekabart>not that he does (did)
07:06<TrueBrain>so I am asking if he does :)
07:06<boekabart>but one doesn't speak ill of the dead
07:06<TrueBrain>well, DSB Beheer isn't dead (yet) :p
07:07<@Rubidium>the soap is so much better than ATWT, GTST, ONM, TBATB, ...
07:07<TrueBrain>TBATB?
07:07<boekabart>the bold...
07:07<TrueBrain>beauty
07:07<boekabart>Rubidium: you know them all?
07:07<TrueBrain>ah :)
07:08<@Rubidium>boekabart: know is maybe a bit 'too much', but ... sometimes there're commercials on discovery (and I don't have commercial free discovery science anymore)
07:09<boekabart>pf, I haven't had cable in 2 years, haven't missed it a day
07:09<boekabart>... good thing Sesame Street and Tele Tubbies are on FTA dvb-t ;)
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08:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17816 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
08:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Codechange: move the CargoList invalidation-after-saveload to the function that
08:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: handles the CargoPackets instead of spreading it around over the saveload files.
08:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: Also add some code to validate whether the caches are valid; to be removed later
08:21<CIA-9>OpenTTD: when no problems turn up
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08:21<andythenorth>hello
08:21<andythenorth>my eyes are bleeding
08:21<boekabart>good for you!
08:22<andythenorth>would anyone like to go in my FIRS thread and talk to Neko?
08:22<boekabart>url?
08:22<boekabart>(lazy me)
08:22<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&start=1020
08:22<boekabart>You mean ForumId|26|ThreadId|41607 ?
08:22<andythenorth>probably
08:23<andythenorth>I just click read the words, click on the links....
08:24<boekabart>:) hm. He suggests a game that's impossible to start
08:24<boekabart>Catch22-mode
08:24<andythenorth>horrible-gridlock mode
08:25<andythenorth>He's arguing against a straw man
08:25<andythenorth>FIRS does what he thinks 'easy mode' is, only the delivered cargo is actually useful
08:25<andythenorth>Hard mode is non-existent
08:25<andythenorth>I have a soft spot for Neko, I don't want to slap him down again
08:26<andythenorth>He's so.....enthusiastic
08:31<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17817 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp water_cmd.cpp water_map.h): -Codechange: MakeWater actually made sea tiles, so rename it to MakeSea and unduplicate the code to make sea, rivers and canals.
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09:10<@Belugas>morning
09:12<boekabart>afternoon
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>winter semester...
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09:15<Forked>cows in the sky with diamonds..
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>... i was referencing a joke... "after waking up, one student asks the other: 'what time is it?' - 'thursday.' - 'i didn't need it that specific, it would have sufficed to say summer or winter semester.'"
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09:26<Chruker>now thats a thinker
09:26<boekabart>is it>
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10:00<@Rubidium>got to 'love' profiling :(
10:01<@Rubidium>especially when the results are odd
10:02<@Rubidium>okay, profiling results can be binned again
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10:12<fonsinchen>Profiling the cargo loading without lots of transfers is rather pointless IMO.
10:13<@Rubidium>why?
10:13<@Rubidium>anyhow, PS154
10:13<fonsinchen>Because most stations only have 1 packet then.
10:13<@Rubidium>append is 11% faster, moveto (including calls to Append, excluding allocs) 7% slower
10:13<fonsinchen>PS154 still isn't as extreme as the average cargodist game.
10:14<fonsinchen>which configuration compared to which?
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10:14<@Rubidium>overall sets are 15 seconds slower over ~3 minutes (7% slower)
10:15<@Rubidium>current trunk vs trunk with your patch (kinda reworked) applied
10:15<@Rubidium>fonsinchen, anyhow the question is: should trunk get 7% slower for something it does not need (yet)?
10:16<fonsinchen>did you follow the proposal of appending only to the last packet in stations?
10:16<@Rubidium>I copied your append functions verbatim
10:17<fonsinchen>That's strange. I'll have to recheck that myself.
10:17<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/cargo_stuff.diff <- basically that
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10:18<@Rubidium>I'm going to fiddle a bit seeing whether I can improve some things (at cost of compile time)
10:19<@Rubidium>I reckon the results could be better *if* gcc had working link-time-optimisation
10:19<fonsinchen>Maybe it's some interaction with the reservation lists or the sorting by next hop.
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10:22<fonsinchen>are you using x86 or amd64?
10:22<@Rubidium>amd64
10:22<fonsinchen>me too
10:23<boekabart>can I help by profiling on win32 (msvc)?
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10:27<@Rubidium>maybe I ought to test without asserts too
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10:36<@Rubidium>with sets and the lot: ~10% more appends and 10% more allocs
10:37<@Rubidium>without asserts: Append 15% faster, MoveTo 15% slower (incl. calls to Append); caused by the extra packets maybe?
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10:42<fonsinchen>I don't quite get yet why the extra packets are a speed problem. They should be a memory problem at most. But I'll have a look at it tonight.
10:44<fonsinchen>ah, I think I know it. With cargodist the number of packets is already higher because of the different destinations. There just aren't as many merging opportunities in stations.
10:44<fonsinchen>This means more packets have to be loaded to get the same amount of cargo onto a vehicle
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10:46<fonsinchen>The merging only at the end probably doesn't add much to that kind of fragmentation while it significantly increases the fragmentation in trunk.
10:46<fonsinchen>I should check that.
10:48<@Rubidium>'reverting' the station merging reduces the number of extra Append calls drastically, yet the average time spent in Append is now up 20% instead of down 15%
10:50<@Rubidium>which basically implies that not (or only with the last) is incredibly cheap
10:50<fonsinchen>How can the average time spent in Append increase if Append is the same as before and the number of calls to Append has decreased?
10:50<@Rubidium>whereas keeping a sorted set is relatively expensive
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10:51<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: stationmerging 'as in trunk' + vehiclemerging 'as with set' != merging 'as in trunk'
10:51<fonsinchen>So that's both Appends added up. OK
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>does it matter that much if packets in the vehicle (which are usually far less than at stations) are merged upon loading?
10:55<@Rubidium>well, AgeCargo iterates over them every so many ticks
10:55<@Rubidium>so that may be something to consider
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10:56<@Rubidium>although fonsinchen's strategy for only checking the last packet might pay off with vehicle loading
10:57<@Rubidium>could reduce (half?) the packet splits/merges
10:57<@Rubidium>but it's a memory vs cpu thing
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10:58<Eddi|zuHause>i think memory is usually less of an issue
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>so i'd favour the memory version over the cpu version
11:00<boekabart>Am I missing smth here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31576&p=826123#p826123
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11:04<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand it either
11:04<StarLionIsaac>That was my bad wording of it, and mistaking what was said
11:04<StarLionIsaac>Apologies over that, I haven't had a cuppa yet today, I'm still not working in a straight line
11:07<fonsinchen>What about using only-last Append on stations and classic Append with list on vehicles. It might be that the set was indeed detrimental all the time as I have only checked set Append on vehicles and only-last Append on stations combined.
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i can see how you "love" profiling that :p
11:11<@Rubidium>okay: only-last for only vehicles: 6% improvement overall for append and 6% improvement for MoveTo (excl. allocating); number of Append/Alloc calls are the same (I only count per 1000, so it can be a few hundred off, which is still less than 2%)
11:13<fonsinchen>Another idea: We could search the list from back to front for classic Append. This way it will find mergable packets faster if it unloads multiple equal packets in a row. Also it's better in line with the FIFO principle.
11:16<@Rubidium>both using 'only merge last': 29% improvement for Append, but 5% more calls (so in effect 25% improvement). For some reason the allocs were 20% more expensive, but only 2% more allocs. MoveTo is 16% faster without allocs, but with Append
11:16<fonsinchen>So, that's with only-last for both vehicles and stations?
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11:17<fonsinchen>so only-last has a greater effect on stations than on vehicles.
11:17<fonsinchen>I suspect only-last for stations and reverse-classic for vehicles is best if you consider AgeCargo
11:18<@Rubidium>in effect for MoveTo performance both "merge last for both" and "merge last for vehicles" are equally fast; assuming Append doesn't get called
11:18<@Rubidium>otherwise it's 3% for vehicle last merge and 5% for both last merge
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11:19<@Rubidium>ah, good point to check agecargo too
11:19<fonsinchen>I don't get it. Where did you get the 25% then?
11:20<@Rubidium>specific functions
11:20<fonsinchen>AgeCargo for same number of packets is cheaper with lists than with sets. It doesn't have to create a tmp set.
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11:22<@Rubidium>if Append gets 25% cheaper, but MoveTo gets more expensive (more packets) then overall it'll become less than 25% cheaper
11:24<fonsinchen>but reverse-classic merging in vehicles should reduce the number of packets compared to only-last merging ...
11:25<fonsinchen>at the same time of course increasing the time for Append, but each vehicle generally has fewer packets than a station.
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11:31<@Rubidium>with all last-merge AgeCargo gets 10% more expensive; as it makes up ~40% of sum(MoveTo, Append, Alloc, AgeCargo) that's quite considerable
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11:32<@Rubidium>(overall 3% slower)
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11:37<@Rubidium>heh :)
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11:38<@Rubidium>full merge in vehicles and only last merge in stations -> 8% slower AgeCargo
11:38<@Rubidium>last merge for all -> 10% slower AgeCargo
11:39<@Rubidium>for both overal a 3% slowdown
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11:42<@Rubidium>though I can imagine that when there's nothing to merge at all that last merge is quicker
11:45<@Rubidium>now... full merge for both, but searching from the back
11:45<@Rubidium>got to love reverse_iterator :)
11:46<fonsinchen>how can AgeCargo be slower if we do a full merge in vehicles?
11:47<fonsinchen>is that full merge with set? Then it's clear
11:48<@Rubidium>no merging at station -> more small (different source) packets at the station -> packets of more sources loaded into the vehicle
11:48<@Rubidium>s/no/last/
11:50<@Rubidium>with reverse_iterator: ~5% improvement overall; 10% improvement of MoveTo/Append
11:51<@Rubidium>no difference, besides random variation on AgeCargo
11:52<fonsinchen>Of course not, the result is the same ...
11:55<fonsinchen>is that reverse merging for both or only for stations?
11:55<fonsinchen>ah, you already said. Sorry
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12:09<@Rubidium>ouch
12:10<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/test.sav <- relatively small savegame with lots of transfers
12:12<@Rubidium>vehicle set + station last merge: 5 times slower age cargo (400%), 42% slower Append, 20% slower MoveTo (incl. Append)
12:12<@Rubidium>vs
12:13<fonsinchen>That's indeed very strange. I'm just trying to reproduce that 2.5 vs 4 seconds thing I reported in the thread.
12:13<@Rubidium>reverse iterator: 10% faster Append, 5% faster MoveTo (incl. Append)
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12:21<Eddi|zuHause>so... reverse iterator is faster because ...?
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>it is more likely that the last packet is the one being joined to?
12:21<@Rubidium>yes
12:21<fonsinchen>it's likely that several similar packets are generated/unloaded in a row
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>how about using move-to-front instead?
12:22<@Rubidium>basically if it gets loaded in a vehicle a packet gets split over all vehicles, later those vehicles are unloaded in (usually) the same order they were loaded
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. if a packet is being joined to, move that to the front of the list, so if it is being joined again, it'll be the first one to be checked?
12:23<@Rubidium>that makes it (way) less fifo
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm, yeah, i see how that might be an issue
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12:28<@Rubidium>Stoffe: could you please acquire a more stable internet connection?
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12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17818 /trunk/src/cargopacket.cpp:
12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Codechange: iterate the cargo list from the back when trying to merge packets.
12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: Chances are higher that the last packet (in the FIFO-ish queue) is mergeable
12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: with the to be added package. If a train gets loaded packets get split up and
12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: put into the different carriages, at unload they are unloaded in the same order
12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: so the last in the FIFO-ish queue is likely the packet it can merge with.
12:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: This results in a 5-10% performance improvement of CargoList's Append/MoveTo without performance degradation of AgeCargo.
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12:49<Sacro>anyone here have any knowledge of Silicon Graphics Indys?
12:50<Sacro>Irixy goodness
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13:00<fonsinchen>so, some results with cargodist: 30 days of PSG 154 wall clock:
13:00<fonsinchen>vehicle: set, station: only-last - 2:45
13:00<fonsinchen>vehicle: reverse, station: only-last - 2:50
13:01<fonsinchen>vehicle: set, station: reverse - 2:45
13:01<fonsinchen>vehicle: reverse, station: reverse - 2:47
13:02<fonsinchen>Mind that reverse means reverse on the subset of packets with the same next hop.
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13:05<@Rubidium>so it's heavily cargodist related
13:05<@Rubidium>could you try with -vnull:ticks=10000 ?
13:05<@Rubidium>and -s null -m null
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13:05<fonsinchen>let's see ...
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13:20<fonsinchen>@calc 10000 / 74
13:20<@DorpsGek>fonsinchen: 135.135135135
13:20<fonsinchen>bah, this will take more than 10 minutes for each run
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13:24<Eddi|zuHause>where do you get the 74 from?
13:25<fonsinchen>74 ticks are a game day
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>and what relevance does that have?
13:25<fonsinchen>this means these are 135 days and for 30 days it took a little less than 3 minutes
13:26<fonsinchen>probably more like 12 to 15 minutes then
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13:26<Eddi|zuHause>ah, i see
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2.5*3.5
13:27<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 8.75
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (2+5/6)*3.5
13:27<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 9.91666666667
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (2+5/6)*4.5
13:28<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 12.75
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>i shouldn't calculate stuff in my head :p
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13:35*Rhamphoryncus wonders why 74 would be chosen, rather than 72 or the like
13:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17819 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace magic constant by symbolic constant
13:36<fonsinchen>both reverse:
13:36<fonsinchen>real 12m8.144s
13:36<fonsinchen>user 12m14.406s
13:36<fonsinchen>sys 0m2.020s
13:38<@Rubidium>Rhamphoryncus: 27*74 is ~2 seconds and 0x357 x 74 is ~65536 ?
13:38<@Rubidium>fonsinchen: does it take that long for you?
13:39<@Rubidium>it takes ~2.5 minutes for me
13:39<fonsinchen>ah, shit, I compiled with debug=3
13:39<@Rubidium>you've disabled assertions too?
13:39<fonsinchen>no
13:39<@Rubidium>./configure --disable-assert
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13:42<fonsinchen>@calc 0x357
13:42<@DorpsGek>fonsinchen: 855
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r17820 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt traditional_chinese.txt):
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 6 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-9>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
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14:03<fonsinchen>vehicle:set, station:only-last - 2:33
14:03<fonsinchen>vehicle:reverse, station:only-last - 2:35
14:03<fonsinchen>vehicle:set, station:reverse - 2:31
14:03<fonsinchen>vehicle:reverse, station:reverse - 2:32
14:04<fonsinchen>with disable-assert and without debug
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14:06<fonsinchen>so, for vehicles reverse is almost equally as good as set on PSG 154
14:08<fonsinchen>reverse is better than only-last and both effects are not as interdependent as thought. But maybe there is random variation at work.
14:15<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17821 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make more mathods of SmallMapWindow private
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14:38<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17822 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move 'extra viewport' code from smallmap_gui.cpp to viewport_gui.cpp
14:39<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17823 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use top of the matrix widget as offset for row calculation in autoreplace window.
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15:03<Rhamphoryncus>Rubidium: where do 27 and 0x357 come from?
15:05<frosch123>0x357 is rougly 1/74 in fixed point notation with 16 fractional bits
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15:09<Rhamphoryncus>huh?
15:10<Rhamphoryncus>floor(65535 / 74) = 0x375
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15:12<Rhamphoryncus>If that was a typo and 0x375 was meant then that'd explain that constant. That just leaves 27
15:13<Rhamphoryncus>And 74 itself
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15:15<Eddi|zuHause>i presume these numbers are completely made up on the spot, and 74 was a constant inherited from the original game...
15:17<frosch123>if you reverse that sentence you might get quite close
15:18<Rhamphoryncus>yeah, we have them now because they're inherited
15:20<@Belugas>74 sounds like ticks per day
15:20<@Belugas>or something
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15:23<Rhamphoryncus>Belugas: scroll up. It is ticks per day. My question was why that particular value was chosen for ticks per day, rather than something like 72
15:24<Alberth>No doubt CS came, saw, and concluded that 74 was the best number to represent a day.
15:24<Rhamphoryncus>74 has the prime factors 2x37. 72 has the prime factors 2x2x2x3x3
15:24<Rhamphoryncus>CS?
15:24<Rhamphoryncus>nm
15:24<Alberth>Chris Sawyer
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>maybe he chose it because it _doesn't_ have that many prime factors
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>you can go and ask him himself, i'm sure you can find contact addresses around the forum
15:31<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17824 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r4594): _date_fract runs from 0 to 73 since r2041. Variable 0x09 should not.
15:31<frosch123>thanks Rhamphoryncus :)
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15:32<Eddi|zuHause>nobody noticed in 13000 revisions :p
15:32<frosch123>@commit 4594
15:32<@DorpsGek>frosch123: Commit by peter1138 :: r4594 /trunk (newgrf_spritegroup.c newgrf_spritegroup.h) (2006-04-27 19:53:58 UTC)
15:32<@DorpsGek>frosch123: - NewGRF: introduce the basic sprite group resolver. This code isn't used yet.
15:32<frosch123>actually less :p
15:33<frosch123>likely noone uses it anyway
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15:36<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:36<Alberth>hello Nite_Owl
15:36<Nite_Owl>Hello Alberth
15:37<@Belugas>Why does it matter if it's 72 or 74? it's a number anyway...
15:38<Alberth>perhaps 73 was not that bad :p
15:39<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17825 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Change: 'animate' the 'center to current position' button in SmallMapWindow when pressed
15:39<PeterT>now^
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15:47<Eddi|zuHause>maybe 73 was a bit too primey ;)
15:51<Nite_Owl>or when added together they become tenuous at best
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15:55<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17826 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: GetRoadVehLength() is only used in one file, make it static.
15:56<Nite_Owl>I am sorry - I thought this was #badpuns
15:57<Rhamphoryncus>Nite_Owl: don't worry, the worst we'll do to you is have you drawn and quartered
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15:58<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: honestly, i don't get it...
15:59<Nite_Owl>7+3=10 or is tenuous
16:00<@Rubidium>but... 07 + 03 != 010
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16:02<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17827 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Deduplicate some lines of code.
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16:03<Nite_Owl>it might loose something in translation
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16:04<Nite_Owl>it is difficult to play to an international audience
16:06-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.114.134.103.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
16:06<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17828 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Variable declaration code style, and a few comment typo-ish fixes.
16:17<@Belugas>blibleblabloblu
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16:19<TrueBrain>awh, your son learns to type? :)
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause># la le lu
16:22<Eddi|zuHause># nur der Mann im Mond schaut zu
16:23<frosch123>TrueBrain: he will shortly catch up
16:23<frosch123>:p
16:23-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>soon he'll have more commits than Belugas ;)
16:25<@Belugas>hehe
16:26<@Belugas>i hope he'll keep his sanity...
16:26<@Belugas>i still have not found mine yet...
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16:37<andythenorth>spooky quiet
16:37<Nite_Owl>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqYDRxdgnC0&NR=1
16:38<Nite_Owl>now that is spooky
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder why i heard so much about it, but never actually saw this movie
16:43<Nite_Owl>it is not a great film but that end scene is very spooky in context
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16:46<Aixx_>hey
16:46<Nite_Owl>Hello Aixx
16:47<Aixx_>can't install from .exe, when trying to launch it from zip, getting this error; http://www.upload.ee/image/233089/untitled.PNG
16:47<Aixx_>am i missing something or?
16:47-!-Aixx_ is now known as Aixx
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, obviously you are missing the files it lists there, check the readme for details
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>or you use a .cfg with incorrect settings
16:49<Aixx>checking the readme atm
16:49<Aixx>i dont think i'm using invalid cfg or something :P
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>and why does it have to be black text on dark blue background?
16:49<Alberth>Aixx: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L178
16:49<Aixx>cuz i'm on mates computer and he likes ugly win themes..
16:52<Aixx>trying to get a clue :p
16:53<Aixx>those third-party files are located in "data" ?
16:53-!-boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
16:53<boekabart>whoops!
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16:55<Alberth>yep
16:55<Aixx>and where shoult i put them?
16:55<Aixx>should*
16:55<Alberth>read section 4.2
16:57<Aixx>okay, got those. where can i get sample.cat ?
16:57<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17829 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move code used for adding vehicles and town names to minimap to separate functions
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>where you got the other files?
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17:01*Rubidium really wonders how hard reading can be
17:03-!-xi [~ondrej.st@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd
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17:04<Muxy>@seen xi
17:04<@DorpsGek>Muxy: I have not seen xi.
17:04<Muxy>@seen luukland
17:04<@DorpsGek>Muxy: luukland was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Luukland> Anyways, thx for the answer, pls next time hold the sarcasm Belugas, dont be such an ass to ppl who just ask normal questions
17:04<xi>hi
17:04<Luukland>:)
17:05-!-Luukland [~luukland@ip195-211-208-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #openttd []
17:05<@Belugas>that was nasty... i was not even the smallest sarcastic!
17:06<Muxy>hi Belugas, nobody blames you.
17:07<@Belugas>he did :(
17:07<Muxy>really ?
17:11<@Belugas>but it seems that i can be sarcastic when i am not conscious of it :S
17:11<@Belugas>baaaa...
17:11<@Belugas>does not matter
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17:21<Terkhen>good night
17:21-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@176.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
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17:25<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17830 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp depot_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Fix [FS#3276]: Some windows already need their window_number when setting up smallest size (e.g. for DParams). So assign it earlier in Window::InitializeData instead of dealing with each window separately.
17:27<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17831 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move code used for adding map indicators of the smallmap to separate functions
17:27-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c33af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:27<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17832 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make Alberth happier
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17:31<zachanima>OpenTTD: kanye * r17833 /trunk/src/video.cpp I'm gonna let you finish, but Beyonce has one of the best commits of all time
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17:41<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17833 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Depot gui should use relative widget coordinates for clicking.
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17:50<Eddi|zuHause>zachanima: i clearly missed the pun again
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17:53<zachanima>:D
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18:01<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=826220#p826220 <-- Nekomaster wants to get moderated
18:02<@Rubidium>planetmaker wants to be a moderator?
18:02<planetmaker>surely not
18:03<welshdragon>hehe
18:03<welshdragon>Post reported
18:03<welshdragon>:P
18:03<planetmaker>:-)
18:05<welshdragon>haha
18:05<welshdragon>Alain can't read
18:05<planetmaker>that's nothing new, or?
18:06<welshdragon>read the IS2 topic
18:06<welshdragon>last post by him
18:06<welshdragon>*headdesks*
18:06<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17834 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#3274] (r17808): you got paid a bit too much... ofcourse the index of the source station generally doesn't equal the location of said station.
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
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18:17<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17835 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: constify few variables
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18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17836 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h station_cmd.cpp):
18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Codechange: split the CargoPacket constructor for creating 'real' new
18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: CargoPackets and saveload. For saveload we do not need to set anything except
18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: two variables (the rest is always overwritten by the load), for new 'real' cargo
18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: also pass the source_xy; dereferencing st before calling is easier than
18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: resolving st->index back to st and then dereferencing. Also don't set
18:24<CIA-9>OpenTTD: loaded_at_xy because that is of no importance when not loaded in a vehicle.
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling these are only the most tiny drops of cargodist
18:26<@Rubidium>nope, the last few weren't
18:26<@Rubidium>or at least not in the cargoset branch
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that may be, but cargoset itself is only a small part of cargodist, or not?
18:29-!-TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd
18:29<@Rubidium>yup
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>so... facit: i have one engine completely falling apart, one engine with loose soldering contacts, three engines that don't make a full round on their own, one untested engine and two that make their round fairly reliable, unless the track contacts are acting up...
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and at least one missing engine...
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>i know that engine was there 20 years ago...
18:33<@Rubidium>so... make a quantum leap and ditch them. One big leap for Edii, but a small one for his trains :)
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>and i could use some capacitors to prevent flickering of the lighted wagons
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18:56<fonsinchen>I think I'll revert the actual "set" part of cargoset. reverse-linear searching for mergable packets in the vehicle cargo lists isn't really slower but much easier to implement and maintain.
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19:03<fonsinchen>I think I'll start merging the stuff now. Or are there more things coming, Rubidium?
19:04<@Rubidium>not really
19:04<@Rubidium>am messing with new/delete
19:04<@Rubidium>but that shouldn't bother you (I think)
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22:28<wil32>alguien habla español?
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22:29<Eddi|zuHause>no...
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i don't have a dead key ~ anywhere...
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>but apparently a dead key ˝ twice
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>not to confuse with a dead key ¨
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23:00<cow101>hello
23:00<cow101>cya
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23:34<Tefad>~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 21 00:00:42 2009