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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-24

---Logopened Sat Oct 24 00:00:40 2009
00:04<kieran491>What are some good extension to openTTD to make the game more challenging and intresting?
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03:03<andythenorth>morning
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03:21<andythenorth>hi Pikka
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03:22<Pikka>hiya
03:29<andythenorth>Pikka: registers are mine
03:29<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=45609&p=826879#p826879
03:29<andythenorth>mwah ha hah haha etc
03:29<andythenorth>All your register belong to us
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03:39<VirginiaTrioli>well done andy :P
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03:39<andythenorth>escaping for dec not hex sorts out the signing issue
03:42<Pikka>oh? :o
03:43<Pikka>oh wait, I think I see why/what you've done. nothing to do with dec vs hex though ;)
03:43<andythenorth>clue stick?
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03:45<VirginiaTrioli>whee
03:45<andythenorth>oh
03:45<andythenorth>the text stack is upside down
03:45<andythenorth>or I am
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03:50<andythenorth>so when I print items from the text stack, it takes the highest register first?
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03:51<andythenorth>so it's like array.pop ?
03:51<planetmaker>[09:16] <kieran491> [06:04:34] What are some good extension to openTTD to make the game more challenging and intresting? <-- did you check out the online content?
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03:52<Pikka>andy: LIFO?
03:52<andythenorth>I was expecting it to be like array.shift
03:52<planetmaker>Play with an expensive train set, limit yourself to minimal terraform, maybe use PBI or ECS as industries. Or test the FIRS industry set
03:52<andythenorth>guess I'm wrong, the code it right
03:52<andythenorth>is*
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04:00<andythenorth>oh.
04:00<andythenorth>the pseudo code for industry production is on a piece of paper in the office :O
04:00<andythenorth>where I am not
04:05<Pikka>oops :)
04:07<andythenorth>nvm I am reading about signing in hex insteas
04:07<andythenorth>d*
04:10<Pikka>basically: if your value is > 1/2 the maximum size, it ends up a negative number
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04:11<Pikka>one unsigned byte goes from 0 to 255, one signed byte goes from -127 to 127
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04:11<andythenorth>simple really :)
04:11<Terkhen>good morning
04:11<Noldo>there are both + and - 0 then?
04:12<Pikka>-128 to 127
04:13<@Rubidium>well... more like 0..127,-128..-1 :)
04:13<Pikka>yes :P
04:16<Pikka>sigh
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04:16<Pikka>I'll be glad when the steam locos are done, diesels are so much easier to draw
04:16<Pikka>especially the symmetrical ones
04:17<andythenorth>try industries...big, but only one view :)
04:17*Pikka has? :P
04:17<andythenorth>:P
04:17<andythenorth>bulldozers fricking suck to draw
04:17<andythenorth>ships sucked at first, but has turned into a copy and paste love-fest
04:18<Pikka>fun :]
04:18*andythenorth is about to run out of text stack registers
04:18<Pikka>http://www.pikkarail.com/junk/jub.png
04:19<andythenorth>^^ nice pixels
04:19<Pikka>a few views to go
04:19<Pikka>then just two more steamers!
04:20<andythenorth>right I've got 6 dword side registers available on the text stack, and 8 word sized values to display
04:21<andythenorth>this will be fun
04:21<Pikka>sounds it
04:23<andythenorth>what is a bitwise AND anyway (google time)
04:24<Pikka>result = the bits that were set in both inputs :]
04:25*andythenorth thinks some kind of bit shift is needed
04:25<Pikka>if you want to read the high word of a dword? yes, shift 16 (0x10) bits.
04:26<andythenorth>I need to stuff two words into a dword register...
04:26<Pikka>hmm
04:26<andythenorth>operator 11?
04:26<Pikka>but won't it then print both as one?
04:27*Pikka doesn't know how the text stack registers work
04:27<andythenorth>seems to just use registers 100-105h
04:28<andythenorth>printing \7C (word) twice seems to pull the first word then the second word from the register
04:28<andythenorth>(I think)
04:28<Pikka>okay, if you have 0000aaaa and 0000bbbb and you want to make aaaabbbb
04:28<andythenorth>yup
04:29<Pikka>A, shift 0 AND 0000FFFF, add (operator 00) b shift 16 AND FFFF0000.
04:29<Pikka>sorry, that's the wrong way round, that will give you bbbbaaaa, but you know what I mean.
04:30<andythenorth>ta
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04:45<kannerke>hi
04:45<kannerke>I'm currently adding some statistics logging to openttd
04:45<kannerke>incmoe, expenses, etc
04:45<kannerke>*income
04:46<kannerke>I managed to save the yearly expenses of the players company to a file
04:46<kannerke>now, I'm looking to expand this with statistics of each vehicle
04:46<kannerke>is someone familiar with the Vehicle code?
04:47<kannerke>I found the Vehicle->name member is null by default (it's probably used to store a custom name)
04:47<kannerke>I just found the Vehicle->unitnumber member
04:48<Alberth>look in the vehicle details window in vehicle_gui to see how to get various costs
04:48<kannerke>I guess this is just the number that is used for listing the vehicles?
04:48<kannerke>(e.g. train 1, train 2, ship 1, ship 2, ...) ?
04:49<kannerke>do you know where the vehicle class is stored?
04:50<kannerke>'train', 'ship, ...
04:50<Tefad>you'd probably want to extend the vehicle class with whatever feature you're adding
04:51<Terkhen>the class is not stored at the Vehicle class: Train, Ship, etc are implemented as classes that inherit from Vehicle
04:51<Tefad>i'm sure there are arrays of each type, yes?
04:51<Tefad>train[0] train[1] ...
04:51<Tefad>i'm not sure where they are
04:51<kannerke>I found the 'VehiclesYearlyLoop' function
04:51<Alberth>Vehicle is at "Definition at line 73 of file vehicle_base.h." says doxygen
04:52<Tefad>where are each players vehicles stored
04:52<Tefad>separated by type
04:53<kannerke>ah, now, my test code will probably store info of eache vehicle, also from the competitors..
04:53<Tefad>so you iterate through each player and each of the type of vehicle of the player
04:54<Tefad>then each vehicle of that type...
04:54<Tefad>fun times
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04:55<Terkhen>Tefad: you use the FOR_ALL_TRAINS macro, there is an equivalent one for each vehicle type
04:56<Tefad>talk to kannerke not me
05:00<kannerke>I don't find the vehicles lists for each company
05:00<kannerke>its not in the Company struct
05:02<Terkhen>kannerke: check Vehicle->owner
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05:08<kannerke>Terkhen: thx, for the hint, I added a check for v->owner == _local_company
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05:09<kannerke>Terkhen: do you know how I can find out the type of the vehicle?
05:09<kannerke>or can I only find that on some higher level?
05:10<Terkhen>check for example the FOR_ALL_TRAINS macro
05:11<kannerke>just did it: I should probably use FOR_ALL_VEHICLES_OF_TYPE(Train, var) etc :-)
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05:24<Pikka>dinner dinner dinner dinner, batman...
05:25<@Rubidium>VehicleType
05:25<kannerke>I also has a gameplay question
05:26<kannerke>When you select for instance two bus stations and you let a bus drive between these two, the bus fill full load and unload at the same station
05:26<kannerke>is this the normal behaviour?
05:27<@Rubidium>if the station accepts the cargo and you haven't selected 'no unloading' the unloading is expected behaviour
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05:30<kannerke>so, when you want a service between two station, you must list each of them twice?
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05:31<@Rubidium>no
05:31<kannerke>ah, I found unload and take cargo
05:31<kannerke>that's probably what I need :)
05:31<kannerke>I have been some time I played the game
05:33<kannerke>that was not a good sentence -> it have been a while since I last played the game ;)
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05:38<kannerke>is the financial data to the road vehicles store in some other currency?
05:39<kannerke>new vehicles cost, construction cost etc is correct
05:39<kannerke>but for instance raod vehicle income is wrong
05:40<kannerke>the game zays 2802 £, my log file says 4294964494
05:40<@Rubidium>let me guess, it warned about some printfs?
05:41<kannerke>the same for a particular vehicle: bus 1: 1218 £, the log file says 311346
05:41<thepalm>4294964494 = FFFFF50E - perhaps negative issue?
05:42<kannerke>for he first is is possible, I guess I forgot to change %u by %d
05:42<kannerke>but for the vehicle is should be correct
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05:42<@Rubidium>money is in int64, chances are quite big that you're printing int32s
05:42<@Rubidium>which basically means the stack might get a bit mixed up causing printf to print different values
05:45<kannerke>yes, I'm running an 64bit os
05:45<kannerke>I'll check about printing values
05:47<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17850 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: remove most usage of delta on OnResize
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05:50<Pikka>ttdpatch has a "statistics" button on the company info which shows how much cargo the company has transported.. that would be pretty cool in OTTD... :P
05:52<@Rubidium>Pikka: but that isn't enough for those 'statistics' hooligans
05:52<Pikka>it'd still be pretty cool!
05:53<@Rubidium>they'd probably only be happy if you printed out *each* expense and income and said who/what caused it
05:54<@Rubidium>e.g. one deduction of running costs a year wouldn't be enough, they need to know how much is spent on personnel, new/revised parts, fuel, etc.
05:54<andythenorth>meh
05:55<andythenorth>code an option. mega-stats, but they *have* to only use maglev
05:55<andythenorth>...
05:55<andythenorth>and toylad
05:55<andythenorth>:D
05:55<andythenorth>right enough nfo, time for domestic crap
05:55<Pikka>have fun :P
05:57<kannerke>added more statistic is part of my goal
05:58<kannerke>but I'll log al data to files so external tools can make nice graphs or generate alerts
05:58<kannerke>when logging of vehicle data works fine, I'll start checking out station statistics
06:00<kannerke>I found the wrong road vehicle income issue:
06:00<kannerke>that value seems to be shifted << 8
06:00<kannerke>shifting >> 8 solved it :-)
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06:06<Alberth>afaik those are fractions
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06:08<Xaroth>heh, 3 billion income from 2 stations connected :P
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06:09<Xaroth>around 50 coal mines all at max production and there's more trains to take the cargo than there is cargo created..
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06:09<MyCatVerbs>andythenorth: I like Toyland.
06:09<MyCatVerbs>Maglev, not so much.
06:10<YoG_>Hi, I'm playing cargodist and the sound stutter somewhat, any ideas how can I improve it?
06:11<YoG_>I forgot to mention, I'm on ubuntu and I compiled the latest code
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06:32<CaptObvious>is there an easier way to upgrade rail->monorail or monorail->maglev than manually replacing all of my trains?
06:33<|Jeroen|>can't it be done with autoreplace ?
06:33<Xaroth>how do you want to fit a monorail train into a maglev depot?
06:34<|Jeroen|>brute force
06:34<andythenorth>yay, I now have the pseudo code for my industries...thanks to the magic of the internets, it's not stuck in my office :D
06:34<CaptObvious>:)
06:35<CaptObvious>I've finally realised that with long trains is better to use double locomotives
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06:36<Xaroth>I always do max 8 carriages per dual-head
06:37<CaptObvious>I'm running 24-long trains
06:37<Xaroth>so a 15 tile length station will have trains with 3 dual-heads and 24 carraiges
06:39<Xaroth>especially for heavy stuff like coals it's mandatory, else your trains take ages to get to max speed :P
06:40<Xaroth>for passengers you can probably go for 13 carriages per dual-head
06:40<CaptObvious>is this how you guys would build this station entrance? http://gallery.captobvio.us/var/albums/openttd/station.png
06:40<Xaroth>Inefficient :P
06:40<CaptObvious>how would you do it?
06:41<Xaroth>2x 45 degree corners ruin yer speed
06:41<Xaroth>lemme find an example
06:41<CaptObvious>okay
06:42<Xaroth>http://openttdcoop.org/wiki/Junctionary_-_Terminus_Stations
06:42<Xaroth>i usually go for the 2nd or the 4th
06:43<CaptObvious>bridges will slow trains down in the 4th one
06:43<|Jeroen|>i always go out the other way
06:43<CaptObvious>also, is it not better to use tunnels as they have no speed limit?
06:44<Xaroth>I prefer tunnels, yeh
06:44<Xaroth>but tunnels take up a bit more space
06:44<@Rubidium>that's definitely how I would NOT build a station entrance
06:44<Xaroth>that said, I use #2 more than #4
06:45<Xaroth>mainly because #4 is made for bigger stations, and I tend make my stations longer vs wider.
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06:48<CaptObvious>so like this? http://gallery.captobvio.us/var/albums/openttd/station2.png
06:49<Xaroth>er, yes, I would personally make a small modification to that
06:49<Xaroth>add around 4 tiles of straight before starting the crossovers
06:49<Xaroth>so you can make a line of two-way PBS with signal pointing to station in front
06:49<Xaroth>on the bottom 4 lanes add a 2nd pbs pointing the same way
06:50<Xaroth>with those added signals trains entering will prefer the top 4 lanes when possible
06:50<CaptObvious>huh?
06:50<Xaroth>which should increase the exit flow
06:50<Xaroth>lemme demonstrate, one sec
06:50<CaptObvious>okay
06:51<CaptObvious>and is it right for a PBS signal to be red if there's a train in the station?
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06:51<Xaroth>pbs always show red
06:51<Xaroth>they don't calculate whether it's ok to go until a train is approaching
06:52<YoG_>how can I change the audio buffer size for sdl?
06:52<CaptObvious>oh nice, so if I'm making a cheap and nasty exit by just doing a crossover on my main line I can use a PBS there so trains can go in both directions through the junction at the same time?
06:53<Alberth>yes, you can have several trains in the same block with pbs
06:53<CaptObvious>first time I've heard of them
06:53<CaptObvious>just started on openttd again yesterday, they weren't in last time I played
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06:54<Xaroth>http://devs.opendune.org/~xaroth/example_1.png .. i think
06:55<Xaroth>as you can see, the first train (that is now exiting) prefered the two top lanes because they have one less signal impeding his path
06:55<Xaroth>which means that at this point a train can both enter and exit
06:56<Xaroth>because the entering train will go to the bototm because he can't go top
06:56<CaptObvious>so I put 2 signals in the bottom half, one signal in the top half?
06:56<Xaroth>yeh
06:56<Alberth>even no signal will work
06:57<CaptObvious>cool, thanks :)
06:57<Xaroth>no signal will work, but it won't do penalty lanes properly
06:57<Xaroth>not that it matters a lot, it just improves flow if there's not that many trains in station
06:57<CaptObvious>so if a train is exiting from one of the top platforms and another train comes along, it'll select one of the bottom 4 platforms to use?
06:58<Xaroth>yeh
06:59<Xaroth>hah i just made an 11 million train..
06:59<CaptObvious>rofl nice
06:59<CaptObvious>how'd you manage that?
06:59<Xaroth>50 tile station :P
06:59<Alberth>inflation :)
06:59<Xaroth>and look at the date on that screenshot :P
07:00<CaptObvious>2075, yeah
07:00<Xaroth>trying to see how much income I can generate :P
07:00<@Rubidium>YoG_: try -s sdl:hz=11025
07:00<CaptObvious>I'd guess lots, but industries must be pretty sparse by then
07:01<Xaroth>nah, i'm not doing it the ordinary way
07:01<Xaroth>just a plain old brute force :P
07:01<Xaroth>got around 60-70 coal mines up on top with each >1000 producing and other end of map some power stations
07:01<CaptObvious>custom map?
07:02<Xaroth>ye
07:02<Xaroth>2048x2048
07:02<Xaroth>just to see how far i can push the limit :P
07:03<YoG_>Rubidium: Great, thanks, hz=22000 did the trick (11025 did not work - I didn't get any sound)
07:04<@Rubidium>YoG_: then you're getting screwed by a sdl-pulseaudio bug
07:04<YoG_>Rubidium: um... I'm using alsa
07:05<@Rubidium>are you really sure? not sdl -> pulseaudio-alsa -> pulseaudio -> alsa?
07:05<@Rubidium>cause that's kinda default for ubuntu
07:06<YoG_>Rubidium: I'm not sure, but when I run with SDL_AUDIO_DRIVER=pulse, I get no sound... and... it's not a deafult installation of ubuntu, I'm running it on arm machine
07:06<Xaroth>heh, 11 mil for a trainload from one end of map to the other :P
07:07<YoG_>Rubidium: how can I check which sound system is running on my machine?
07:08<@Rubidium>no clue actually
07:08<YoG_>Rubidium: anyway... I don't think I have pulse installed there... btw, what's the pulseaudio bug?
07:09<@Rubidium>that for some reason a huge amount of CPU is wasted for resampling the sound
07:09<YoG_>yeah... that sounds bad... any workaround for that?
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07:10<@Rubidium>setting the 'output' sampling rate of OpenTTD to something else seems to help in 100% times the bug occurs, which I've only seen from people using ubuntu
07:11<YoG_>what's the default? 44000?
07:11<@Rubidium>YoG_: sounddriver = sdl:hz=22050 or so in your config file; there's already a sounddriver line in there
07:11<@Rubidium>YoG_: 44100
07:13<@Rubidium>which is kinda a defacto standard as that's the sampling rate of CDs
07:13<CaptObvious>just a quickie cos I'm late leaving for work
07:13<CaptObvious>but anyone know if the iPhone port of OpenTTD in cydia is gonna be updated to the latest version?
07:14<@Rubidium>I reckon the person developing that knows
07:14<CaptObvious>ah, it's not an openttd team thing?
07:14<@Rubidium>no
07:14<CaptObvious>fair enough
07:14<CaptObvious>right, off to work, bye all
07:14<YoG_>Rubidium: my machine doesn't like the 22050 rate (no sound) just the 22000...
07:15<@Rubidium>YoG_: that's odd
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07:17<YoG_>Rubidium: indeed... but it works so I don't complain ;-)
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07:27<TrueBrain>Rubidium: I now enabled the debug mode of the production website (which is always a bad thing, but okay)
07:27<TrueBrain>next time someone gets an upload failure of BaNaNaS, I need the exact error (in high detail, including local variables, function-tracelog, etc etc)
07:28<SpComb>and an interactive debugger? :)
07:28<@Rubidium>"yay" :)
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07:36<Luukland>3 of my servers in top 5 hmmm
07:36<Luukland>I need more servers
07:36<Luukland>Can someone provide me with a server in Spain or Italy?
07:36<Luukland>I need to have some backup servers there
07:36<@Rubidium>no you don't need more servers... there're more than enough already
07:36<TrueBrain>sure; 50 euro a month okay?
07:37<Luukland>Depends, is it in Italy or Spain?
07:37<TrueBrain>that can be arranged
07:37<Luukland>But that means... That you are just a merchant...
07:38<TrueBrain>I sell VPSes all over the world :p
07:38<Luukland>I see, can't you make "special price" for me?
07:39<TrueBrain>by the fact that you didn't even asked for the specs of a 50 euro machine, I would have to say: no :)
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07:39<Luukland>dang, will have to start my secret server takeover scenario
07:40<TrueBrain>not so secret now
07:40<Luukland>Indeed...
07:40<Luukland>Or I must kill you before you tell anyone esle...
07:41<TrueBrain>106 people to kill, of which at least 3 are not real people and 2 of them log directly on the web ... good luck ;)
07:41<Luukland>Then I must activate another secret scenario
07:41<Luukland>Which i wont tell ^^
07:41<Luukland>Muwhahaha (evil laughter)
07:41<YoG_>I didn't read anything about youre secret scenario...
07:41<YoG_>(so it's 105)
07:42<Luukland><@Rubidium> there're more than enough already <--- Well, it seems like the servers lack attraction
07:43<TrueBrain>all serveres, yes
07:43<Luukland>To you maybe, but mine are currently growing like crops in Africa
07:44<TrueBrain>sounds aweful :p
07:44<Luukland>Maybe I should have said France :P
07:44<TrueBrain>nothing grows in France
07:44<Luukland>or children in India
07:44<TrueBrain>there only things die
07:44<Luukland>I hope Belugas didn't hear that
07:45<TrueBrain>he doesnt live in France, so he wouldnt mind
07:45<Luukland>There are 201 clients, 180 IPv4 servers
07:46<Luukland>Do you happen to know what was max clients ever online?
07:46<TrueBrain>nope
07:46<Luukland>Or don't "they" keep track of those things...
07:46<Luukland>Shame
07:47<TrueBrain>yup
07:48<Luukland>Do you happen to know where I can find Ex? (the server admin)
07:48<Luukland>I need to ki.., brib..., I mean speak to him...
07:48<TrueBrain>you are not at all hostile, are you?
07:50<Luukland>no no no
07:50<Luukland>If I lose my temper maybe
07:50<TrueBrain>well, I read you wanted to kill at least 2 people in the last 10 minutes :p
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07:51<Luukland>True, maybe I am a kill
07:51<Luukland>killer *
07:51<Luukland>Or a psycopat
07:51<TrueBrain>dutch people tend to be psycopats, yes
07:51<Luukland>Or maybe I am Chizofrenic
07:51<TrueBrain>known fact
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07:53<Luukland>Stil I need to get that monopoly
07:54<Luukland>Which means I need to get Ex to work with me
07:55<TrueBrain>so I am not sure, are you Pinky or the Brain?
07:55<planetmaker>hm... what happened to src/ottdres.rc.in ?
07:56<TrueBrain>I ATE IT! I was so hungry ....
07:56*TrueBrain hugs planetmaker
07:57<Luukland>I am the Brain
07:57<planetmaker>uh... it's quite tough to chew on it, I guess.
07:57<Luukland>Fugas is Pinky
07:58<planetmaker>nvm. found it
07:59<TrueBrain>it was hidden under the rock? :)
08:01<planetmaker>yes, indeed.
08:01<planetmaker>A big boulder called windows rolled nearly over it.
08:01<TrueBrain>as it should have
08:01<planetmaker>yeah. But previously it was running around in the wild, unharmed by ./os/windows ;-)
08:01<planetmaker>now it got enslaved by that folder
08:04<TrueBrain>so as OSX user, why are you interested in that file? :)
08:05<Luukland>He wants to sabotage it!
08:05<planetmaker>TrueBrain: update of the infrastructure sharing repository
08:05<TrueBrain>:)
08:05<planetmaker>and I like to release something called IS2.0-beta4 :-)
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08:29<AC6000>thought i had the wrong channel ^^;
08:30<Noldo>why?+
08:30<AC6000>possible brain fart... :I
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08:39<Luukland>Here comes another brain
08:39<Luukland>Or Pinky
08:39<Luukland>Hmmm
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09:34<planetmaker>TrueBrain: Rubidium: may I ask you to build a new version of the infrastructure sharing repository, please?
09:34<planetmaker>I think, SmatZ will approve :-)
09:35<TrueBrain>hg://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/is2 right?
09:35<planetmaker>yes
09:36<planetmaker>you should still have also the data / login for where to transfer the resulting binaries
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09:36<planetmaker>e.g. the key is still active
09:36<TrueBrain>I started the schedule .. we will see what it does :p
09:37<planetmaker>thanks a lot :-)
09:37<TrueBrain>it is sitll (trying) to get the hg
09:37<TrueBrain>ah, there it is
09:37<planetmaker>changed a few revisions ;-)
09:37<TrueBrain>hg over http is just very slow
09:37<planetmaker>you could use hg over hg ;-)
09:38<TrueBrain>could would should
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09:38<planetmaker>but doesn't matter I guess :-)
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09:42<Ammler>does hg have it's own transfer protocol?
09:42<TrueBrain>yup
09:42<Ammler>you mean the thing with hg serve?
09:44<planetmaker>Ammler: no: hg pull ...
09:44<planetmaker>if you don't specify a http address
09:44<planetmaker>but login via ssh
09:45<Ammler>then it is hg over ssh :-)
09:45<planetmaker>:-)
09:46<TrueBrain>ssh indeed is a transfer protocol
09:46<TrueBrain>(lol)
09:46<Ammler>well, but not really hg's own
09:47<TrueBrain>lol ... that is a wrong conclusion my friend :)
09:47<TrueBrain>svn can also be done over ssh
09:47<TrueBrain>does it means it isn't using SVNs own protocol?
09:47<Ammler>of course.
09:47<Ammler>no
09:47<TrueBrain>SSH is a carrier, nothing more
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09:48<Ammler>same with http in that case, isn't?
09:49<TrueBrain>http is a protocol, even a transfer protocol
09:49<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17851 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: Use pure nested widgets for the view-vehicle window.
09:50<Ammler>nvm, we speak in different languages :-)
09:50<Alberth>test worked, we can still do svn protocol over ssh
09:50<TrueBrain>tnx Alberth ;)
09:51<Alberth>Ammler: in network land, it is normal to use one protocol in context of another.
09:51<Alberth>eg, Unix has UDP, which is used to make TCP, which is used to make HTTP, which is used for hg
09:51<TrueBrain>easiest examples are lower-level protocols: IP, TCP, Ethernet, ..
09:52<TrueBrain>neither transfer .. they only carry :)
09:52<TrueBrain>I guess HTTP is a hybrid, when looking at it like that
09:52<Ammler>Alberth: so hg does also use http for ssh?
09:52<TrueBrain>it uses file:// I believe :)
09:53<Noldo>udp isn't used to make tcp
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>so, if you're going to discuss protocols, what happened to OSI layers?
09:53<Ammler>I would think it makes the bundles and then transfer those over http or directly with ssh
09:53<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: they still exist, dah :p
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09:55<Alberth>Ammler: hg needs to transfer contents, and it uses a transfer protocol to do that. SSH and HTTP are both usable for that. (and I guess HTTPS too, but I don't know whether that is done)
09:56<TrueBrain>Alberth: of course it is; that what can be done over http can be done over https ;) Check https://secure.openttd.org/hg/ ;)
09:56<Ammler>yep, so we still don't have its own hg protocol, do we?
09:57<Alberth>Noldo: technically your are right, IP is the common protocol, but UDP is a very thin layer :)
09:57<Noldo>multiplexing is a feature!
09:57<Alberth>Ammler: in URL speak, that would be 'hg://' not sure it exist.
09:58<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17852 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: Use viewport nested widget in the view-vehicle window.
09:58<Ammler>yes, and that was my inital question, as I am not aware of it iehter.
09:58<Alberth>well, it is open source, you can have a look :)
09:59<TrueBrain>and that wasn't your question ;)
09:59<TrueBrain>mercurial uses, as far as I know, raw file access to access repos
09:59<Ammler>you guys!
09:59<TrueBrain>which makes it extremely slow in some situations :(
09:59<TrueBrain>like git over http .. brrr slow :(
09:59<Ammler>well, git has its protocol
10:00<Ammler>doies openttd support that?
10:00<TrueBrain>the protocol? No
10:00<Ammler>git://git.openttd.org
10:00<Ammler>or soemthing like it...
10:02<TrueBrain>I can only suggest to try it
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10:06<Alberth>Ammler: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/WireProtocol
10:07<Alberth>it seems incomplete
10:07<Ammler>TrueBrain: well, that sounded like a yes :-)
10:07<TrueBrain>I don't deploy things partly ... I hate doing that. Well I had to for NoAI, but I still dislike that :(
10:07<TrueBrain>oh, and Redmine sucks
10:08<Ammler>hehe
10:08<TrueBrain>(for 'repositories' is needs about twice the memory it normally is using, and if it isn't avaialble, it starts serving 500 pages, never to retry again)
10:08<Ammler>I once loaded openDUNE in our redmine
10:08<Ammler>Xaroth: wasn't able to break it :-)
10:09<TrueBrain>if you have enough memory available, it is never a problem
10:10<TrueBrain>for OpenDUNE is requires 300 MiB of free RAM for certain revisions
10:10<planetmaker>@ports
10:10<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
10:10<TrueBrain>which I call an insane amount :(
10:11<Ammler>do you get the message "Redmine deraild", if that happens?
10:12<TrueBrain>no, it tells in the log that it is out of memory, and serves a 500 page
10:12<TrueBrain>I believe "Insufficient memory to serve page blabla" or something closely like it
10:12<Ammler>I had that with redmine-mysql
10:13<TrueBrain>when I created 300 MiB of 'free' memory, it started to serve that page, only to use 10 MiB or RAM more ..
10:13<TrueBrain>which to me reads something like: I AM POORLY WRITTEN SOFTWARE AND I NEED TO BE REPLACED
10:13<TrueBrain>:)
10:14<Ammler>but those memory limits are reached only in short timeframes, then it went back to ~0?
10:14<Ammler>I would need something to debug that
10:15<Ammler>never saw big mem usage for redmine.
10:15<TrueBrain>OpenDUNE! :p Create a VPS with, say, 50 MiB of RAM free after launching a single redmine thread, and enjoy
10:15<TrueBrain>as I said: it doesn't use it, it just needs it (well, maybe for bursts, but it doesn't show up anywhere)
10:15<Ammler>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opendune/repository
10:15<TrueBrain>mind the 'free memory' limitation
10:15<Ammler>if you browse around there, the memory doesn't rise
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10:16<TrueBrain>I believe I do write in a different language then the one you read :(
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10:30<TrueBrain>planetmaker: please confirm IS2 is uploaded correctly?
10:31<planetmaker>TrueBrain: looks fine. Thanks a lot!
10:31<TrueBrain>np
10:32<Noldo>IS2?
10:32<planetmaker>infrastructure sharing
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10:37<planetmaker>new binaries now available from http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/is2/IS2.0-beta4/
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10:54<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17853 /trunk/src/ (26 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove the 'delta' parameter from OnResize; it was used in ways that aren't always wanted, causing bugs and the like. Also with nested widgets most reasons for handling OnResize have gone.
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11:12<Terkhen>hello
11:12<yorick>hello
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11:19<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17854 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Merge different cases of setting widget data together in the view vehicle window.
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11:40<Xaroth>Ammler: when a piece of software requires 300+ mem assigned to it to serve a single repository, it's flawed.. heck, even websvn does it all within the bounds of a single php instance
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11:42<Ammler>Xaroth: I wasn't able to reproduce it, but maybe I am simply not able to debug that. :-)
11:42<Xaroth>you don't have to either, we switched to separete packages that in combination, work better :)
11:43<Ammler>well, we still run redmine
11:43*Xaroth shrugs
11:43<Xaroth>if it works for you, use it :)
11:43<Ammler>until now, I blamed apache and mysql if somehting failed
11:44<Xaroth>I blame redmine.
11:44<Xaroth>apache and mysql are both mature enough to not be -that- lacking.
11:45<Ammler>you didn't use apache anyway...
11:45<Xaroth>nope
11:46<Xaroth>but it's a known issue with apache as well :)
11:46<Ammler>the funny thing is, those use redmine too :-)
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11:47<Ammler>as I looked for alternative to apache, I found redmine ;-)
11:47<andythenorth>Rubidium: what are the chances of have more registers available to the text stack? Even if it was a patch, not trunk?
11:47<andythenorth>I have a use for them...
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11:49<andythenorth>grr
11:51<frosch123>andythenorth: maybe you want a patch that displays all persistant registers? :p
11:52<andythenorth>frosch123: omg, something resembling a debugger? wtf, lol etc :P
11:53<andythenorth>I can't think what the gui would look like for that
11:53<andythenorth>say 200 industries on a map, 16(?) persistent registers per industry....
11:53<frosch123>showing some registers should be possible, tracing and singlestepping action2 would be very hard
11:53<andythenorth>but my industry text window solution is *neat* dammit :P
11:54<andythenorth>only involves about 20 lines of pointless code
11:54<frosch123>lol, of course it would be shown in the industry gui and not for all industries at once :p
11:54<andythenorth>frosch123: well it would be mighty useful if such a thing were possible :)
11:54<frosch123>however, if you want to show more registers you would at first have to store multiple stuff in one register to not always have to print dwords
11:55<andythenorth>yep, that is what I haven't figured out yet.
11:55<andythenorth>Pikka gave me pseudo code this morning, but I haven't converted it to nfo
11:55<andythenorth>or at least, nfo that works anyway
11:56<andythenorth>I don't *need* it right now, it would just be handy
11:57<andythenorth>frosch123: you've seen this?
11:57<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=826899#p826899
11:59<frosch123>yes, somewhat more detailed http://paste.openttd.org/217554 puts persistant var 0 and 1 as word on the stack
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12:01<andythenorth>cool, I'll try it now
12:05<andythenorth>oh. it really is time for a new grfcodec for me :(
12:05<andythenorth>planetmaker...
12:05<andythenorth>:P
12:05*andythenorth download time
12:08<andythenorth>planetmaker: I can't find grfcodec page on the devzone?
12:08<planetmaker>andythenorth: http://www.openttd.org/download-grfcodec
12:08<planetmaker>andythenorth: http://www.openttd.org/download-nforenum
12:09<andythenorth>:D
12:09<planetmaker>^ nightlies of both
12:09<andythenorth>planetmaker: remind me, where do I put them on a mac? /bin ?
12:10<frosch123>hmm, planetmaker: how often did you quote those two links in the last 7 days?
12:10<planetmaker>frosch123: dunno. countless times
12:10<planetmaker>andythenorth: I'd put them in /usr/bin
12:10<planetmaker>or in /usr/local/bin
12:10<planetmaker>dunno if the latter is in the search path by default
12:11*frosch123 has symbolic links from /usr/local/bin to the checkout
12:11<planetmaker>frosch123: :-)
12:11*planetmaker has that, too
12:12*andythenorth wanted that too, but couldn't work it out...which is why I hadn't bothered updating
12:12<andythenorth>a problem for another day
12:15<planetmaker>andythenorth: if you download it always to the same location: sudo ln -s /usr/bin/renum /Users/<your-login>/path/to/renum
12:20<andythenorth>planetmaker: mac version of grfcodec working flawlessly
12:20<planetmaker>I know :-)
12:20<andythenorth>renum not so happy...it will be a local config issue, but I'm deep in nfo
12:20<planetmaker>what does "not so happy" mean?
12:20-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA010.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:21<planetmaker>hm... how do I tell configure to NOT use CXXFLAGS=-std=gnu++0x ?
12:21<andythenorth>planetmaker 'not so happy' means...didn't work
12:21<planetmaker>hm, strange. Mine works. But then I've built it myself
12:22<andythenorth>NFORenum v3.4.6 r2251 - Copyright 2004-2009 Dale McCoy.
12:22<andythenorth>Could not open output file "sprites/firs.nfo.new" for input "sprites/firs.nfo".
12:22<andythenorth>make: [sprites/firs.nfo] Error 6 (ignored)
12:22<planetmaker>that doesn't look like a renum error
12:23<planetmaker>well... I've seen similar somewhen...
12:23<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you don't, why would you?
12:23<planetmaker>Rubidium: what do you mean?
12:24<planetmaker>andythenorth: you certainly have write permission in the sprite dir, do you?
12:24<@Rubidium>planetmaker: you don't remove -std=gnu++0x from CXXFLAGS
12:24<andythenorth>planetmaker: I'm knee deep in text control chars :D I'll check in a bit
12:24<planetmaker>Ah. Yes, I would like to: cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-std=gnu++0x"
12:25<planetmaker>^ that's what our IS2 server tells me when I try to compile
12:25<planetmaker>gcc 4.4 on suse linux
12:25<@Rubidium>then suse broke gcc
12:25<@Rubidium>and you'll have to remove the lines that add it from configure
12:25<planetmaker>hm
12:26<@Rubidium>gcc 4.3 and higher have that command line option according to my man page
12:26<planetmaker>since when is this added to configure?
12:26<@Rubidium>a while ago
12:26<@Rubidium>use svn praise to find out when exactly
12:30<andythenorth>planetmaker: your code worked perfectly :)
12:30<andythenorth>thanks
12:31<planetmaker>andythenorth: but I didn't add much code, did I?
12:31<andythenorth>oops
12:31*planetmaker wonders :-)
12:31<andythenorth>frosch123: your code worked perfectly :)
12:31<andythenorth>although putting 3 words into 2 dword registers, then printing them with the correct control codes made my brain hurt
12:31<planetmaker>:-P
12:31-!-George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:31<frosch123>:p
12:32<andythenorth>\7B \7B \7C
12:32<andythenorth>took a bit of though
12:32<andythenorth>t
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12:36<andythenorth>actually \7C \7C \7B if anyone cares!
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12:45<andythenorth>awesome, I now have potentially double the amount of debug information
12:45<andythenorth>and a new grfcodec that understands escapes
12:45<andythenorth>is it christmas already? :)
12:47<frosch123>you can even teach it new escapes now :p (though i never tried)
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12:53<andythenorth>unexpected...hmm. Is there a persistent register 0x00
12:53<andythenorth>?
12:53-!-Guest309 [~Chris_Boo@82-32-243-15.cable.ubr11.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:53<@Rubidium>yup
12:54<andythenorth>my bad then
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13:08<andythenorth>writing nfo with some at least *some* debug is almost fun
13:08<andythenorth>less of a black box :)
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13:22<frosch123>uhm, someone knows whether planes refitted to tourists carry mail in ttdp
13:23<+glx>probably not
13:23<+glx>but I don't know :)
13:23-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.128.226] has joined #openttd
13:23<+glx>it's just a guess
13:25*frosch123 wonders whether joining #tycoon would be of any use, or whether it would just be annoying
13:26<TrueBrain>frosch123: more annoying than being here? :)
13:27<frosch123>it is never annoying when you are here. no idea why
13:27<TrueBrain>I dunno if I have to say thank you, or sorry .. :p
13:28<SmatZ>how hard it would be to make this place annoying?
13:28<TrueBrain>is yorick here? :p
13:28<SmatZ>maybe kick for asking questions
13:28*TrueBrain hugs yorick :)
13:28<SmatZ>:-)
13:28<TrueBrain>better yet, kick for answering them :p
13:28-!-kieran491 [~kieran@c114-77-12-55.brasd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd []
13:28<frosch123>@seen yorick
13:28<@DorpsGek>frosch123: yorick was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 16 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <yorick> hello
13:29<frosch123>oh, he was even here
13:29<SmatZ>:-D @ kieran491
13:29<SmatZ>it became annoying for him here :-p
13:29<SmatZ>@whois kieran491
13:29<TrueBrain>@seen kieran491
13:29<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: kieran491 was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 24 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <kieran491> What are some good extension to openTTD to make the game more challenging and intresting?
13:30<Alberth>not a man of many words
13:30<Alberth>s/words/sentences/
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13:32<andythenorth>if using the production callback, what happens if more than 65k of cargo is delivered? Does cargo waiting overflow to a negative amount?
13:32<frosch123>no, it is clamped
13:32-!-pyhfol [~w0lv3n@203-206-44-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
13:32<Alberth>andythenorth: you have a 17 bit value?
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>surplus cargo is thrown away, but still paid for
13:33<SmatZ>not paid for
13:33<SmatZ>just thrown away
13:33<SmatZ>hmm someone(tm) should finish the work
13:33<SmatZ>and let it return to unloading vehicle
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, it should be...
13:34<pyhfol>gday all
13:34<Alberth>SmatZ: nah, just extend it to 32 bit :p
13:34<SmatZ>hehe
13:34<Alberth>pyhfol: hello
13:34<TrueBrain>and a good day to you too pyhfol
13:34<SmatZ>well callback can stop accepting cargo "anytime"
13:34<pyhfol>quick question - is it possible to connect to a dedicated server from the same network as the host?
13:34<SmatZ>evening pyhfol
13:34<SmatZ>ottd can bind on multiple addresses afaik
13:35<andythenorth>I don't really care if 65k is the cap, as long as it doesn't overflow to negative :)
13:35<@Rubidium>SmatZ: trunk yes, 0.7 only via 0.0.0.0
13:35<pyhfol>sorry i should clarify
13:35<andythenorth>It's an *insane* amount of cargo anyway
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: but this is not about stopping acceptance, it is about having more input than can ever be processed
13:35<pyhfol>the dedicated is to be accessible via the net also
13:36<Alberth>andythenorth: if it overflows to negative, it happens at 32768 with 16 bit
13:36<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, internally it's both done in one function
13:36<@Rubidium>pyhfol: you're using some DSL/Cable modem/router, right?
13:36<pyhfol>roger
13:36<andythenorth>yep, wiki says ~32k for input cargo
13:36<@Rubidium>in that case enter the IP in "Add server"
13:36<pyhfol>home network, broadcasting the ded server for everyone else, but unable to play from my other pc
13:37<pyhfol>in the network config? *looks*
13:37<frosch123>andythenorth: it only says you cannot process more than 32k at once
13:37<@Rubidium>pyhfol: no, in the multiplayer window
13:37<@Rubidium>as in start OpenTTD -> Multiplayer -> Add server
13:37<andythenorth>frosch123: oh well that would be fine too
13:37<pyhfol>just the lan ip? *tries both*
13:37<@Rubidium>yes, the internal IP
13:38<andythenorth>actually it might not be fine
13:38<@Rubidium>'cause most DSL/Cable modems/routers can't/won't forward packets coming from the internal network via the external IP back to an internal IP, which is basically what happens when you 'Find servers'
13:39<Alberth>rocks are very heavy, 32k is not that much?
13:39<pyhfol>yeah i figured as much, still no joy
13:39<pyhfol>let me fiddle
13:39<andythenorth>Alberth: :P
13:39<@Rubidium>did you set a different port or so?
13:40<andythenorth>just trying to make sure I don't get myself into a confuddle with hex maths
13:40<pyhfol>Rubidium: do i need to bind the dedicated to the internal ip?
13:40<pyhfol>ports are set and forwarded. I can see the server listed, just cant connect, from any pc or os
13:40<@Rubidium>pyhfol: it only has one (internal) IP I reckon
13:41<pyhfol>but is it listening for internal connections?
13:41<@Rubidium>unless you have a fancy network layout and then I'm not very useful
13:41<andythenorth>So if more than 32k cargo is waiting (call that n), and I do min(n,21k), there is no chance I'll get n instead of 21k due to overflow into negative?
13:41<pyhfol>nah, just run o the mill
13:41<@Rubidium>pyhfol: that depends on the network layout you've got, but generally if you do not bind to an IP OpenTTD listens on all ports
13:42<pyhfol>hmmmmmm *fiddles*
13:42<@Rubidium>s/ports/ips/
13:43<frosch123>andythenorth: hmm, actualy the negative input might now work in ottd
13:43<frosch123>s/now/not/
13:44<frosch123>well, it works when registers are used, and they are 32bit anyway
13:45<pyhfol>back, still nothing
13:45<andythenorth>frosch123: does that affect the min(n,21k) case I gave above?
13:45<frosch123>if you use dword access, everything should be fine
13:45<frosch123>and you need the signed min of course
13:49<pyhfol>Rubidium: any other ideas?
13:51<Alberth>pyhfol: you are listening at 0.0.0.0 for openttd 0.7?
13:52<Alberth>otherwise a firewall may block lan traffic
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13:54<pyhfol>Tried on several PC's, one linux, one win firewalls on neither
13:55<pyhfol>the binded ip in the network config is 0.0.0.0
13:55<pyhfol>and yes, running 0.7.3
13:55<Alberth>ok, so that should not be the problem :)
13:55<pyhfol>:)
13:55<Alberth>you enabled both udp and tcp?
13:55<pyhfol>i was gonna cry if what rudi had said before was going to work
13:55<Alberth>otherwise I am fresh out of ideas
13:56<pyhfol>yeah, both tcp n udp forwarded
13:56<pyhfol>even tried putting the host into DMZ
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13:57<pyhfol>its clearly a networking issue that im either to stupid to figure out or too blind to see
13:57<pyhfol>meanwhile, my cousin is in the game and no doubt monopolised me now
13:57<pyhfol>:P
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13:57<Alberth>you could try localhost
13:57<SHADOW-XIII>hi guys
13:58<pyhfol>hey
13:58<SHADOW-XIII>looking for OTTD icons in SVG format (or 128/256px PNG/ICO)
13:58<pyhfol>Alb - in what regard?
13:58<Alberth>run a OpenTTD client at the server
13:58<pyhfol>yeah
13:58<pyhfol>ive been doing that
13:59<pyhfol>just a pain in the ass
13:59<pyhfol>lol
13:59<pyhfol>i rather cmd prompt to gui :P
13:59<SHADOW-XIII>anyone knows where I can download those OTTD icons: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=165631#p165631
13:59<@Rubidium>SHADOW-XIII: tried the media directory of a trunk checkout?
13:59<@Rubidium>pyhfol: got no ideas for you anymore
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14:00<SHADOW-XIII>@Rubidium: but in the trunk will be not those from morphium
14:01<Alberth>so PM him
14:01<@Rubidium>SHADOW-XIII: then I have no clue; wasn't around back then
14:01<@Rubidium>haven't even heard of that guy
14:01<@Rubidium>until now at least
14:01<SHADOW-XIII>he had 3 posts in 2004
14:01<SHADOW-XIII>but icons are awesome
14:02<TrueBrain>why do you want 'OpenTTD' icons which are not the official OpenTTD icons?
14:02<pyhfol>to be cool
14:02<pyhfol>why else
14:03<TrueBrain>silly people :)
14:03<pyhfol>lol
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14:03<andythenorth>I want to divide one constant by another in advanced varaction 2
14:04<andythenorth>I've started...
14:04<andythenorth>http://paste.openttd.org/217556
14:04<SmatZ>@seen yorick
14:04<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: yorick was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 51 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <yorick> hello
14:04<andythenorth>I need operator 06
14:04<TrueBrain>SmatZ: still the same ;)
14:05<TrueBrain>LOL! I put on the movie: 2012 Supernova .... I am already regretting it .. the intro already contains more than one flaw :p
14:06<TrueBrain>things like 'fire' explosions in space .. supernova means a BIG explosion of a 'planet' like thingy (it does not) ... this is going to be fun :)
14:07<andythenorth>result :) http://paste.openttd.org/217557
14:07<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: well... if you're going to complain... *any* sci-fi to do with space in any way is flawed (sound in a vacuum?)
14:07<TrueBrain>well, to say ANY sci-fi has sound in vacuum is a bit overgenerlized
14:07-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1CBD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:08<TrueBrain>and there are gradations of errors .. if you make a movie about a supernovea, at least make it like what it does and should do ...
14:08<@Rubidium>name me a few that don't
14:08<TrueBrain>Stargate Universe
14:08<TrueBrain>Sliders
14:09<TrueBrain>although the first is a serie (the second both a serie and a movie)
14:09<pyhfol>ahhhh Sliders
14:09<pyhfol>gold
14:09<pyhfol>pure, gold
14:10<TrueBrain>that it was ... that it was ..
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14:10<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: SGU episode 5, 33:37 Q.E.D.
14:10<SHADOW-XIV>havent seen it yet
14:10<pyhfol>Yahtzee
14:10<TrueBrain>Rubidium: they are never in space, so ...
14:11<pyhfol>I am a moron!
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>i was watching stargate earlier, it's totally stupid this episode...
14:11<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: predictable with a big P
14:11<pyhfol>for my problem earlier - i wasnt adding a port to the ip on adding server, and thus it was adding the default, but my dedicated has a custom
14:12<TrueBrain>LOL @ pyhfol
14:12<TrueBrain>a bit silly ;)
14:12<pyhfol>thanks all, in particular Rubi who made me see the obvious
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>and over the last few seasons, stargate was more and more "in space"
14:12<pyhfol>lol
14:12<pyhfol>Stargate universe? i havent watched any, is it any good?
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>too early to tell...
14:12<TrueBrain>if you like Grey's Anatomy or Defying Gravity, yes it is
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>that last episode tending on the bad side
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14:13<pyhfol>hmmm, ill not bother then
14:14<pyhfol>i thought they began to lose it after oneil left in sg1, then atlantis came along, which wasnt bad, but after that it all went to shit
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>atlantis started way earlier than o'neill leaving
14:15<pyhfol>oh yeah it did.
14:16<pyhfol>how about in between lol :P
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>atlantis was good, yes
14:16<pyhfol>its been that long since i watched em anyway
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14:16<Eddi|zuHause>so you didn't watch the atlantis finale yet?
14:16<pyhfol>only just got net back and when you live in aus theres only 2 ways to watch em
14:16<pyhfol>nah havent watched any of it for a while
14:17<pyhfol>foxtel or torrent lol
14:17<TrueBrain>try usenet
14:17<pyhfol>or usenet
14:17<pyhfol>but both torrent and usenet require internet lol, which i didnt have again till recently
14:18<pyhfol>anyone else here from aus?
14:18<TrueBrain>whoho, they got a fact right!
14:23<TrueBrain>whoho, another fact!
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>something they got wrong, their "trajectory" is completely straight ahead...
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>and like rubidium said, wait until you get to the last 10 minutes...
14:26<TrueBrain>I was talking about 2012 supernova, you got that, right? SGUs end is just too stupid to be true ...
14:27<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17855 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove or move var declarations in DrawVehicleRefitWindow().
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14:33<Eddi|zuHause>ah, no, i missed that
14:35<TrueBrain>:)
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14:35<TrueBrain>okay .. that really was once again one of the worst movies I have seen in ages :p
14:36<TrueBrain>and the annoying SHADOW-XIII returned .. with his endless joins and leaves
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14:37<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17856 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Don't get the selected cargo as a sife effect of drawing.
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, luckily it always correlates to SHADOW-XIV leaving :p
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14:51<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17857 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Fix (r10442): [NewGRF] 'subtract-in' is also signed for production callback version 0.
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14:53<pyhfol>night all
14:54<Alberth>night
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15:16<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17858 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Unindent some code.
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15:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17859 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the fund/build/prospect industry window nested
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15:41<dihedral>hehe
15:41*dihedral just read the fs task on hp != ps
15:41<dihedral>mb suketh
15:47<andythenorth>hmm
15:48<andythenorth>some flyspray requests are kind of fun and strange
15:49-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
15:50<andythenorth>maybe I should flyspray my favourite feature request...
15:51<planetmaker>andythenorth: not much point, I think
15:51<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=42440
15:51<frosch123>"code firs for me"
15:51<frosch123>more?
15:51<andythenorth>:P
15:52<planetmaker>quoting you: - provide a patch for it ourselves
15:52<planetmaker>- or entice another dev to do so
15:52<planetmaker>if not a) or b) there's not much point IMO
15:52<planetmaker>and for b) there's no point either ;-)
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15:54<andythenorth>frosch123: I've just used \2/ and \2* without any training wheels
15:54<andythenorth>worked first time
15:54*planetmaker pats andythenorth on the shoulder
15:54<andythenorth>http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1hHd854OE_U/SnXzZc8axPI/AAAAAAAAI4U/uml0ECvaG2c/s320/No+training+wheels+(3).jpg
15:54<planetmaker>;-)
15:56<planetmaker>he... frosch123, did andy entice you to look at newgrf maths? (Looking at r17857)
15:57<frosch123>andy always points me to some bugs
15:57<planetmaker>:-)
15:59<andythenorth>'fields' and forests and such would be cool no?
15:59-!-violetblood [~fcp@79.114.62.107] has joined #openttd
15:59<frosch123>sure, but not something for a weekend, and so nothing for me
15:59<andythenorth>:)
15:59<planetmaker>he
16:00<planetmaker>a pity :-)
16:00<violetblood>hi
16:00<planetmaker>ho
16:00<andythenorth>hi hi
16:00<violetblood>I would like to buy a hamnmbunger
16:00*frosch123 waits for the "hä"
16:00<violetblood>??
16:01<planetmaker>hmnmbunger are out of stock
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>hä?
16:01<andythenorth>there is no hamnmbunger here
16:01<andythenorth>pick up hamnmbunger
16:02<andythenorth>planetmaker / anyone? so I'm coding FIRS to support insane cargo input levels
16:02<andythenorth>for you crazy coop people and other maglev-abusers
16:02<andythenorth>but just how am I going to test the code works?
16:02<planetmaker>andythenorth: apropos: care to upload an updated version / newer nightly to bananas?
16:02<andythenorth>no, they are all broken
16:03<andythenorth>:{
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>that's certainly not addressing me...
16:03<frosch123>andythenorth: you will only boost fish usage that way
16:03<planetmaker>I just thought today to give your grf a test on one of our servers
16:03<andythenorth>broken broken
16:03<planetmaker>haha @ frosch123
16:03<planetmaker>I guess that's ... a shameless plug. I like that prod. levels, though
16:03<andythenorth>just how do I drop in 65535 units of cargo? It has too arrive in between two production callbacks...
16:04<andythenorth>I really can't be bothered to set up a test for that
16:04<andythenorth>can we just code review and say 'well it looks like it will work'?
16:04<planetmaker>andythenorth: so... what can we do for you, if we have no working grf?
16:04<andythenorth>meh
16:04<andythenorth>give me a bit longer...grf will arrive
16:04<andythenorth>meanwhile, templating would be *unbelievably* useful
16:05<planetmaker>well... I'm not proficient enough with that kind of nfo code to do a thorough review
16:05<planetmaker>I just saw your screenies and went 'wow' at the production levels
16:05<planetmaker>He, templates, yes.
16:06<planetmaker>First task (for me): rename STR_TYPE_WHATEVER into STRID_TYPE_WHATEVER
16:06<violetblood>hi
16:06<planetmaker>so that STR_TYPE_WHATEVER can actually be used to define the strings themselves instead of the IDs for the strings
16:06<violetblood>anyone mind showing me some nice curve junctions?
16:06<planetmaker>violetblood: hi again. We didn't leave
16:06<StarLionIsaac>violetblood: depends what you mean by nice curve
16:06<andythenorth>planetmaker: are you ok to do that work?
16:06<andythenorth>planetmaker: >> devzone
16:06<planetmaker>andythenorth: it's boring but simple
16:07<frosch123>StarLionIsaac: this is not #tycoon
16:07<violetblood>star
16:07<violetblood>like
16:07<StarLionIsaac>eh, so I forgot to check what channel I'm on
16:07<andythenorth>omg I just used \2< *without* having to look it up first.
16:08<frosch123>it's "min", right?
16:08<frosch123>hmm, signed, right?
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16:10<planetmaker>violetblood: did you look at the wiki?
16:10<violetblood>yes
16:10<violetblood>didn't found anything helpfull for what i need
16:10<planetmaker>or maybe you care to browse our savegame archive: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PublicServer:Archive
16:11<planetmaker>or the wiki where that archive is hosted.
16:11<planetmaker>It has a few examples, too
16:12-!-nicfer1 [~usuario@190.50.36.254] has joined #openttd
16:12<nicfer1>hi
16:12<planetmaker>http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Junctionary_-_All
16:13<frosch123>"junctionary" is a nice term :)
16:14<planetmaker>:-)
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16:16<nicfer1>I'm wondering if would be possible to create an special grf type that acts like a container of other grf files
16:17-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
16:17<DaleStan>Unlikely.
16:17<DaleStan>Also, why?
16:17<frosch123>there are newgrf presets, if you want more than 60 it is your fault
16:22<nicfer1>hmmm... then, how about an icon somewhere on the start screen that changes your active grf files?
16:23<DaleStan>You mean like the one that says "NewGRF Settings"?
16:24<Rhamphoryncus>I've noticed that a lot of people seem to use very short trains. Is there a reason for this? Fitting into junctions maybe?
16:25<frosch123>they load faster, load more regulary, and so provide better service
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>the longer the train the more interference when they actually cross paths
16:26<frosch123>a train should not wait longer for full load than it needs to travel to the destination
16:26<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17860 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Refit window uses pure nested widgets.
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's a side effect of the exceptionally short signal distances, the trains should get shorter as well
16:26<Rhamphoryncus>frosch123: I thought loading would scale with the number of cars, so long as the station's long enough?
16:27<frosch123>Rhamphoryncus: ok, replace loading time, by time needed to produce the cargo
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>Rhamphoryncus: yes, but that assumes that there is a large pile available
16:27<CaptObvious>bah, there's always too much water even though it's on the lowest
16:28<Rhamphoryncus>Okay, so rather than have 2 trains with 8 cars you'd rather have 4 trains with 4 cars
16:28<frosch123>depends on distance and output
16:28<Rhamphoryncus>Because the game favours short wait times
16:28<Rhamphoryncus>Is there some ideal wait time factor?
16:29-!-thisismyname [~chatzilla@77.51.84.227] has joined #openttd
16:29<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17861 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17860): max(uint, int) does not exist.
16:29<frosch123>well, afaik what counts is the time from production until delivery
16:29<Alberth>Rhamphoryncus: of course there is, there is always an optimum
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think the loading time matters that much, but for busy main lines, there is a tradeoff between train length and line capacity
16:29<frosch123>cargo should not wait most of the time for other cargo to load
16:30<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: but then longer trains are better
16:31<Rhamphoryncus>Also acceleration time I assume. In real life a long train will get a long path allocated so it doesn't have to stop and start much. In openttd it's more erratic, and a small train can get up to speed quickly. Also, with realistic acceleration it's less affected by close turns
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: like i said, longer trains => higher chance that a train has to stop at a busy junction
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>not even speaking about acceleration of longer trains
16:32<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: no, longer trains -> less trains needed over all -> less inter-train space -> more cargo on the same amount of tracks
16:33<frosch123>a train with 4 engines and 16 wagons still needs less space than 4 trains with 1 engine and 4 wagons each
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>exactly: less inter-train space means less "gaps" for a train entering a main line, so trains are more likely to have a full stop
16:33<Rhamphoryncus>The main thing I've focused on thus far is to have the loading train be 90-95% full when the next train comes in, so there's no cargo building in the station
16:34<nicfer1>with that button I meant something faster, having to disable grfs one by one is kinda slow
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>longer trains perform better on a straight line, but worse at junctions
16:35<nicfer1>my idea is to have a button that toggles two or more grfs at once
16:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: imo that long-enough gap only suggests to use trains of equal length
16:35<frosch123>but the probabilty for a full stop is not changed
16:36<StarLionIsaac>nicfer1: why not use the presets? They store the state of an entire newgrf list
16:37<frosch123>nicfer1: of course you could also code some small patch which adds or removes the grfs of a preset to the list without replacing the whole, so you can use presets for subsets of grfs
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>the newgrf window is in desperate need for improvement
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16:37<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i am happy with it since i can filter for filename
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>like recently, i wanted to add the ECS grfs to a preset
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>and i had to open the "add" window, and reenter the filter again for every single one
16:38<StarLionIsaac>if an update was made to the newGRF GUI patch, that included the new features such as the string search, it would fix that
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>because (still) the add window closes every time you select a grf, and you can't select multiple grfs
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>it's an extremely tedious job
16:39<Rhamphoryncus>I wonder if broken down trains are less of an issue if they're short. Less likely to tie up a junction?
16:39<StarLionIsaac>well, then all you need is to add the string search to the top of the add part of the newgrf GUI, which doesn't close
16:40<nicfer1>the options/difficulty/'advanced' menus should be reorganized also
16:40<StarLionIsaac>that way, it'd still remain, the string theoretically should stay, and the list should remain filtered
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>also it would be useful if you add a grf with a grf-id that is already present, it should ask you if you want to replace it
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16:41<frosch123>hmm, the last part should be easier
16:41<nicfer1>I propose merge them in one bigger menu called 'options'
16:41<StarLionIsaac>that would be very useful, like when you need to upgrade from an old ECS grf to a new one
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16:45<frosch123>hmm, except ottd has no modal windows
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>the question that asks if you want to exit the game? or the confirmation to sell all vehicles?
16:46<frosch123>yes, but they are not modal
16:46<frosch123>hmm, they are
16:47<frosch123>how does that work :o
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16:48<_ln>könnte etwas größer sein
16:49<frosch123>this is not #tycoon
16:49<Prof_Frink>Das ist verboten.
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17:03<andythenorth_>Eddi|zuHause: I have a solution to your ECS grfs problem
17:03<andythenorth_>but it's kinda lateral...
17:03<andythenorth_>and comes in just one grf :)
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>;)
17:03<andythenorth_>question....I suppose divide by zero works about as well in nfo as other common languages?
17:03<Alberth>nicfer1: you're not the first person with that idea. You can be the first that implements it.
17:05<DaleStan>Don't do it. I know TTDPatch won't blow up (Dunno about Open), but the results are undefined (even if they are predictable). If you don't need the divide, divide by 1 instead, which is special-cased to skip the div.
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17:06<TrueBrain>http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/epic-fail-duck-ad-placement.jpg <- I just LOVE wrongly placed ads :)
17:07<Sacro>i love you <3
17:08<andythenorth_>DaleStan: thanks
17:08<Prof_Frink>Duck!
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>And Cover!
17:08<Prof_Frink>Duck duck duck.
17:08<andythenorth_>meanwhile, back at the ranch
17:08<andythenorth_>I have to refresh my newgrfs about 40 times an hour when I'm coding
17:09<andythenorth_>and I code for 10 hours a day at the weekend...
17:09<andythenorth_>lot of refreshes...I am so sick of clicking that button
17:09<andythenorth_>"Apply Changes"
17:09<andythenorth_>it's right next to "Find missing content online" as well
17:09<andythenorth_>which I hit about 1 in 4 times....grrr
17:09<TrueBrain>that is kind of stupid, that after plenty of clicks on the same buttons, you still manage to miss them :p
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>shall make the button bigger? or coloured?
17:10<_ln>TrueBrain: even the disease description itself is hilarious :)
17:10<Prof_Frink>Duck.
17:10<andythenorth_>TrueBrain: I know, I'm just dumb...
17:11<andythenorth_>but it's the duck watching me that causes me to miss
17:11<TrueBrain>well, normally people condition faster :p
17:11<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17862 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use edge positions of the matrix widget in DrawVehicleRefitWindow.
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i misclick buttons all the time...
17:12<TrueBrain>I tried that excuse when I kicked yet another person .. nobody bought it :(
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i mis"click" the left mouse button :p
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>and hit the right one instead ;)
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17:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's not very convincing if it says "oops, wrong button" in the kick message :p
17:13<TrueBrain>I guess that is the problem yes ..
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17:15<frosch123>andythenorth_: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/forandy.diff <- try that one
17:17<andythenorth_>frosch123: I think this line is redundant: case '0' | WKC_ALT: // Crash the game
17:17<andythenorth_>I already have code for that :)
17:17<frosch123>:p
17:17<frosch123>don't press F12 in an online game, you will desync :p
17:18<TrueBrain>frosch123: so add if (!_networking) in front of it :)
17:19<frosch123>TrueBrain: or rather if (_networking) *(byte *)NULL = 0;
17:20<TrueBrain>ghehe, effcieint too ;)
17:21<frosch123>or if (_networking) ShowErrorMessage(INVALID_STRING_ID, STR_STUPID_USER, 0, 0);
17:21<TrueBrain>I have been working on 16bit apps lately, they allow such actions :p
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17:21<frosch123>is that specific to 16bit?
17:21<TrueBrain>no
17:21<frosch123>:p
17:21<TrueBrain>they just don't have code-pages yet
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>how's the game going, anyway?
17:22<TrueBrain>it runs, and it runs good :)
17:23-!-boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
17:23<andythenorth_>frosch123: patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line
17:23<andythenorth_>Hunk #2 succeeded at 279 with fuzz 1.
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17:24<frosch123>do you have unix2dos?
17:24<frosch123>then try "unix2dos <the file>"
17:32<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/foreddi.diff <- can you please clean that up wrt. leakiness and maybe crashiness and then post it to fs :p
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>since when am i the cleaning up kind?
17:34<TrueBrain>you don't like the promotion?
17:34<frosch123>you are always at home, what should you do there elsewise?
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17:37<Eddi|zuHause>why's the function static if you need access to "this"?
17:39<frosch123>because it passed as function pointer to ShowQuery
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>strgen gets very noisy ;)
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>and you can't pass non-static (possibly virtual) functions as pointer?
17:40<frosch123>well, where shall ShowQuery get the "this" from?
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you're probably right...
17:42<frosch123>pascal has some function of objects with is basically a struct of this and function pointer
17:42<frosch123>but you would still need another function than ShowQuery
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17:43<Eddi|zuHause>*mental note* don't press [Esc]:wq in kate...
17:45<frosch123>vimness is a dangerous disease, be careful about it, don't leave house...
17:46<frosch123>you might start to think an editor *needs* a special command to start editing
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not in that stage yet, i guess i'm lucky
17:47<andythenorth_>frosch123: f12 :D
17:47<frosch123>:p
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>funny... konqueror crashes when i open the text file links...
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause>there's no way i know enough about c-pointer-magic to clean up memory leaks...
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>and of course i missed him...
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18:27<andythenorth_>oh.
18:28<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I miss him too
18:28<andythenorth_>the production callback insists on only looking at registers
18:28<andythenorth_>it won't use persistent registers
18:28<andythenorth_>that'll teach me the wrongs of top-down coding or whatever it's called
18:28<andythenorth_>:|
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18:29<andythenorth_>it's not exactly compatible with my magic debugger either :P
18:29<andythenorth_>but is easy to fix
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19:10<andythenorth_>good night
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19:14<Terkhen>good night
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20:13<Gorillagram>what the
20:13<Gorillagram>D:
20:13<Gorillagram>I finished... wait... shit... D:
20:13<Gorillagram>argh
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20:16<Eddi|zuHause>you should try this new invention
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>speaking in whole sentences
20:17<Gorillagram>I finished drawing a set of sprites last night
20:17<Gorillagram>but it looks like I was actually saving it on the desktop where I'd saved a copy to show someone, instead of in the correct working file
20:17<Gorillagram>and I've since deleted the file off the desktop
20:17<FauxFaux>This is why you should never delete things.
20:18-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
20:20<Gorillagram>true dat
20:24<Gorillagram>looks like it's lost, oh well. redrawing tiems
20:26<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17863 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the build vehicle window nested
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20:32<Eddi|zuHause>if you did it once, you can do it again ;)
20:33<Pikka>it's more tedious than anything else
20:34<Pikka>damn steam engines and their funny shapes... damn chris sawyer and his round squares...
20:34<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: really? Try properly dieing and then doing it again!
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>i immediately thought of walter when i said that :p
20:37<@Rubidium>that grumpy Walter?
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20:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that walter
20:45<Eddi|zuHause>he talks about suicide bombers ;)
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 25 00:00:42 2009