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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-25

---Logopened Sun Oct 25 00:00:42 2009
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04:09<Forked>morning :)
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04:31<Pikka>having fun andy?
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04:35<andythenorth__>our phone line is in the sky, old, rusty
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05:03<Pikka>nice, andy :]
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05:07<Pikka> :D
05:17<andythenorth__>soon be time for a UK game again then...
05:17<andythenorth__>NARS good, but I've played it *a lot* :D
05:17<andythenorth__>still my favourite
05:17<andythenorth__>shame OzTrans is sulking about Canset though
05:17<Pikka>well, when this is done, and NARS is updated a little, you'll be able to play them /together/, moderately sensibly. :P
05:18<andythenorth__>Next stop: Australian trainset?
05:18<Pikka>but yeah, I'm just about finished all the steam locos, and all the steam-era rolling stock.
05:18<Pikka>revisit ? maybe. :P
05:19<andythenorth__>australia has a lot of things that look like f units?
05:19<Pikka>down south they did, yes
05:19<Pikka>up here, not so much, 'cause we're narrow gauge
05:19<andythenorth__>ah ok
05:20<andythenorth__>when I've done what I'm doing (if that's ever finished), I want to do North American Road Vehicle Set
05:20<andythenorth__>then when *that's* done...Australia / Commonwealth road vehicle set
05:20<andythenorth__>because it's similar trucks, just more trailers :D
05:20<Pikka>you should talk to Dan, he drew a load of north american trucks which I never quite got around to coding :]
05:21<andythenorth__>I know :) I've been making sure HEQS scales ok against them
05:21<andythenorth__>kind of tricky, cos it also has to scale against eGRVTS
05:21<Pikka>eGRVTS is a little overscale, I think
05:22<andythenorth__>HEQS is a little underscale
05:22<Pikka>our locos look mostly like this:
05:22<Pikka>we have 3'6" track and a loading gauge similar to the UK
05:22<Pikka>(and all our signalling and practice is very UK too, whereas it's more american down south)
05:23<andythenorth__>2100 looks like UK 66 without skin?
05:23<Pikka>well, it's an EMD
05:23<Pikka>but we also had EE locos which looked similar
05:24<andythenorth__>FIRS deliberately includes some 'Oz-friendly' industries.
05:24<Pikka>QR had a long-time policy of sourcing alternate loco classes from EMD and EE, just in case one or the other went broke and couldn't supply spares any more; it'd only take out half the fleet. :P
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05:25<Pikka>speed freaks are gonna hate a QR set though
05:25<Pikka>maximum speed of trains in 1900: 50mph
05:25<Pikka>maximum speed of trains in 2000: 50mph
05:25<andythenorth__>Oz Trucks: max speed 50mph?
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05:26<Pikka>road would be faster than rail... could be interesting
05:27<andythenorth__>project for 2012
05:27<andythenorth__>if I'm not utterly bored by TTD by then
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05:37<Pikka>there's so many projects which sound like a good idea, but one can't quite summon the willpower for :P
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05:39<Terkhen>good morning
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05:39<andythenorth__>Pikka: any favourite examples?
05:40<frosch123>ripping all the crap from kde-4
05:40<andythenorth__>writing a compiler for nfo for any sane language of choice (preferably Python)?
05:41<andythenorth__>speaking of which, frosch123 I think I now grok registers
05:42<frosch123>nice :)
05:42<andythenorth__>I think I'm always going to have questions about bit shifts, AND masks etc, but I think I can now use most action 2 / cb / advanced action 2
05:43<andythenorth__>I don't really understand the purpose of operator 7E, but I don't seem to need it...problem for another day
05:44<frosch123>you can use 7e for parentheses inside computations
05:44<frosch123>or for sharing subterms accross multiple computations/decisions
05:45<andythenorth__>ok I think I get it
05:46<andythenorth__>so val 2 in an advanced calculation could be the result of a varaction 2 chain
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06:02<teuntjuhh>how does that work
06:03<andythenorth__>I guess there's no value in a crash log from a patched nightly running development nfo code?
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06:14<frosch123>did f12 cause some crash?
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06:22<andythenorth__>frosch123: no, it was a different patched version (I am using f12 patch, but not when it crashed - savegame compatibility reason)
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06:45<andythenorth__>Pikka: ooh...sugar mill :)
06:45<andythenorth__>looks nice. I've got to draw one for FIRS sometime
06:46<andythenorth__>and a dragline for coal
06:46<andythenorth__>Guess there are licensing issues with the Pineapple ones [:)
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07:05<Pikka>sorry... andy, if you want to use my dragline, feel free, it's pretty crap though :P
07:06<Pikka>most of the other industries are based on TTD graphics, so you probably wouldn't want to use them.
07:15<andythenorth__>Pikka: so the Pineapple sugar mill produces directly? No cane cargo?
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07:22<Pikka>the cane is gathered from the fields by the 2ft tramways, and brought to the mill for processing. there's no industry one could really use as a source for the cane.
07:23<Pikka>and the 2ft tramways aren't used to transport anything else, they really are single-use industrial railways, so having them player buildable wouldn't be useful/realistic
07:24<Pikka>do the 3d fields work in OTTD, btw? I don't remember ever trying it.
07:26<@Rubidium>3d fields?
07:26<andythenorth__>3d fields?
07:28<andythenorth__>I've tried touching the screen where the fields are, but I can't feel any bumps...
07:28<Pikka>the sugar fields have height, and should hide the tile behind them
07:28<Pikka>should/do in ttdp
07:28<andythenorth__>they do in OpenTTD as well
07:28<Pikka>okay, good :)
07:28<andythenorth__>by about 8 px
07:29<andythenorth__>you know OzTrans is planning QR / NSW (?) cane trains for CanSet?
07:29<Pikka>really? weird.
07:29*andythenorth__ shrgu
07:30<andythenorth__>I'll buy them for a dollar
07:31<Pikka>is he going to draw the track for them?
07:31<andythenorth__>don't know
07:31<andythenorth__>canset has NG already, think he's just using that
07:31<andythenorth__>let me see...
07:31<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17864 /trunk/src/osk_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the OSK nested
07:32<Pikka> how fast do you reckon that is? :P
07:33<@Rubidium>~5 km/h / ~3 mph / walking speed
07:33<@Rubidium>though faster than when I would need to pull it
07:34<Pikka>'cause that's about as fast as they go :)
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07:35<frosch123>[12:29] <andythenorth__> they do in OpenTTD as well <- fields do not have BB in ottd. they will not hide houses or stuff on foundations. also railway fences will be in front of them
07:36<@Rubidium>oh, later on it's going more like 10-15 km/h
07:37<Pikka>I see
07:38<andythenorth__>1km long train at ~3mph? And they have grade crossings right?
07:38<andythenorth__>I guess people in QL try and beat the train?
07:38<Pikka>rarely, down here at least. up north, possibly.
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07:40<Pikka>QR trains on branchlines up north usually crawl up to crossings anyway because the crossings have no bells or gates, and the branchlines see only one or two trains a year :)
07:40<andythenorth__>this one is going at a fair clip:
07:41<Pikka>yeah, he's going some :o
07:41<Pikka>I like the rail/rail level crossings.. interesting :)
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07:41<andythenorth__>ah here's mine:
07:42<Pikka> :D
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07:50<andythenorth__>I like sets with NG
07:50<andythenorth__>NG for NARS?
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07:55<Pikka>I think dan was thinking about it :)
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07:57<andythenorth__>there are engines in canset already...not much drawing required
07:59<Pikka>right, if I want to get this alpha out tonight I'd better get on with it!
07:59<andythenorth__>me too...
08:00<Pikka>gonna be busy with uni work all day tomorrow...
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08:30<andythenorth__>frosch123 / Rubidium: how expensive are things like branching varaction 2s, for example, when used by the regular production cb?
08:31<frosch123>andythenorth__: don't care about single branching, care about the total number of callbacks called
08:31<andythenorth__>ok thanks
08:32<andythenorth__>ethics: code with significant redundancy and more complicated logic (hard to work with)
08:33<andythenorth__>versus code that's really easy to share between industry...(usually easier to maintain and debug)
08:33<andythenorth__>ho hum
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08:37<frosch123>andythenorth__: <- some statistics i did for ecs somewhat ago, once you use the animation_speed callback, no other callback matters :)
08:39<andythenorth__>frosch123: is there a handy 80+ var that I could use to figure out how many output cargos there are
08:39<andythenorth__>08 perhaps?
08:39<andythenorth__>or I could just hard code it
08:40<andythenorth__>nvm, I've just realised I can do it with a constant
08:41<frosch123>sure you could use var 88 and 89, but you could also organise the varact2 chains, so you know what is present
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09:00<Luukland>Server monopoly :p
09:00<Luukland>I need more servers :P
09:02<Luukland>Can someone make me an ottd server offer?
09:06<Alberth>Didn't TrueBrain give you one yesterday ?
09:06<Luukland>he didn't, because he is a merchant
09:07<Luukland>and not a server engineer
09:07<andythenorth__>frosch123: any cost to using persistent storage instead of registers? (I have more than enough persistent spare for my needs, it's useful for debug)
09:08<frosch123>there should be no difference
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09:12*Alberth wonders why TB is sys-admin at then :p
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09:13<TrueBrain>I wonder about that too ..
09:13<TrueBrain>or rather: I am as suprised as you are Alberth :)
09:13*Luukland grabs a stone and trows it into Ex\'s Servers
09:14<@Rubidium>can I join you with throwing rocks?
09:14<Luukland>If you try to miss my servers
09:15<frosch123>Luukland: he is 4 years older than you
09:15<Luukland>Ex or Tubidididum
09:15<Luukland>* Rubidididum
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09:34<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17865 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Codechange: Remove references to specific widgets and step-heights from BaseVehicleListWindow::DrawVehicleListItems().
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09:53<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17866 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the remaining graph windows nested
10:14<Pikka>shoop da woop
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10:30<yorick>hmm...clients with STATUS_AUTH aren't autokicked
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10:31<yorick>which allows to DoS a server just by having open connections
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10:52<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17867 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Codechange: Prepare BaseVehicleListWindow for nested widgets.
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11:08<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17868 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Vehicle list window uses nested widgets only.
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11:46<andythenorth>Repeat games might be more fun if the cargo payment rates were randomised at the start of the game...
11:46<andythenorth>..or even during it!
11:46<andythenorth>...once again, I have to start with coal...boring boring boring
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11:51<Alberth>that saves a few clicks only, ie you don't have to look at the cargo payment rates first.
11:52<Alberth>somewhere in the graphs you can find how much money you get for each cargo
11:52<andythenorth>I know but what does that have to do with randomising them? :P
11:53<andythenorth>also eGRVTS should include flocks of sheep, and herds of cattle, for the purposes of transport livestock...
11:53<Alberth>the game can randomize what it likes, but one look at the graph tells me what to start transporting, so you don't gain a lot of game play imho
11:53<andythenorth>but what you transport changes the whole game?
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>wait, you don't put 3 sheep on one horse for transporting them???
11:54<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I do today, but it would be better not to....we should tell Zephyris :D
11:54<Alberth>that's around 1900 Eddi|zuHause
11:54<andythenorth>I have just started a 1900 game...spooky
11:55<Alberth>did coal mines exist back then?
11:55<Alberth>people just chopped down the nearest tree, didn't they?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: coal became important during the beginning of industrialisation, so around 1800
11:57<Alberth>oh, I am off a century. Ah well.
11:58<andythenorth>only off by one
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12:03<yorick>client slots: 256/8579
12:03<yorick>servers: 192
12:03<yorick>companies: 743/2084... hmm, more companies than clients
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12:51*andythenorth assert
12:57<andythenorth>hmm...I've ctrl-joined truck and rail stations, and they aren't accepting cargo. Never seen that before. r17590 (patched)
12:57<andythenorth>hey ho
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13:00<andythenorth>level crossings fail to stop vehicles if no signals built on the rail line
13:01<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17869 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: don't create OnScroll() event for zero delta
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: trains only reserve paths if they encounter a path signal, if only block signals or no signals are present, they don't reserve a path, so level crossings only close on imminent approach of the train
13:04<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I found that out the hard way :)
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause>hm, why do all holidays fall on a saturday this year... the 3rd october was a saturday, the 31st october is a saturday...
13:14*SmatZ had holidays on 28th September and 28th October
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13:15<Eddi|zuHause>should i feel honoured that you celebrate my birthday that much? :p
13:16<SmatZ>very :-)
13:19<SmatZ>dihedral / planetmaker / OSX users - when OTTD starts, there is a splash image, right?
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13:20<SmatZ>it is not "fullscreen", right?
13:21<SmatZ>does one of these diffs change the behaviour?
13:22<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17870 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_gui.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp ship_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Use fontsize when drawing roadveh, ship, and aircraft details.
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13:27<SmatZ>andythenorth: could you test that please?
13:28<SmatZ>if you have trunk sources somewhere around :)
13:28<planetmaker>[18:19] <SmatZ> dihedral / planetmaker / OSX users - when OTTD starts, there is a splash image, right?
13:28<planetmaker>^ yes ,there is. It's the OpenTTD thing on black background
13:29<planetmaker>but the black covers the whole screen
13:29<SmatZ>planetmaker: is black background nice? shouldn't it be rather white or transparent?
13:29<planetmaker>I don't mind either actually. It's too short to bother me in any way.
13:29<frosch123>SmatZ: how would you do transparent?
13:29<planetmaker>like 1/4th of a second or so
13:30<SmatZ>frosch123: I don't know
13:30<frosch123>planetmaker: is it shown before ottd scans for grfs and such?
13:31<planetmaker>frosch123: it's shown before I see anything else
13:31<planetmaker>whether it scans for newgrfs before... dunno
13:31<frosch123>oh, so you do not have enough grfs installed
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>scanning for newgrfs is probably the largest task ;)
13:31<planetmaker>frosch123: how many would I need?
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the coop pack not enough?
13:32<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I surely have more
13:32<planetmaker>bananas has many :-)
13:32<planetmaker>and a dozen further or so
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>./openttd -d misc=2 will tell you
13:33<frosch123>planetmaker: actually the whole time from starting ottd until the main screen appears is used for scanning grfs
13:33<frosch123>nothing else todo
13:33<planetmaker>ok, I guess it scans before
13:33<frosch123>ottd 0.5.3 starts in about 0.1 s, while trunk needs some seconds on my pc, when they are not already in some cache :p
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>hm, it spends ages in "dbg: [misc] Loading blitter..."
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>(linux here)
13:35<frosch123>ah, i see, first scanning for tars, then the blitter line, and then scanning for grfs
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>it "scans for tars" a dozen times...
13:36<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause, planetmaker: -d misc=1 -d grf=1
13:36<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17871 /trunk/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp: -Fix (r11342): memset() accepts only 1-byte argument
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>ah, it loads the grfs, that's what's taking ages
13:37<frosch123>yeah, it parses every grf to find the name, grfid and md5sum
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>hm. NewShips is GRVv2 :p
13:38<planetmaker>Ok, I got 197 tars ans 326 grfs
13:38<frosch123>i.e. it has to read them all
13:38<planetmaker>and it's all done before I see anything
13:38<frosch123>so the splash is quite useless :p
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>it should be started earlier
13:39<planetmaker>oh, it should persist till scanning is done...? Hm... :-)
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [grf] [ecs_machinery_vector.b5__25_sep_2009_/ecsmachw.grf:71] Unsupported in-game variable 0x93
13:40<planetmaker>SmatZ: both patches don't compile: /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp:158: error: ‘x’ was not declared in this scope
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>is that something to ignore/worry about/report/other ?
13:42<SmatZ>planetmaker: oh :(
13:42<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: no
13:42<frosch123>i.e. "ignore"
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: "zutreffendes bitte unterstreichen" :p
13:43<planetmaker>hm... should be easy to amend, though
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13:46<SmatZ>planetmaker: when you update trunk and apply this patch, does it compile?
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm, would it be useful to have a "human readable" display of the GRF-ID? i.e. "6D620601 (mb 6 1)" or something?
13:47<planetmaker>SmatZ: it was just a missing uint x in the for loop
13:47<SmatZ>planetmaker: yeah, this adds some coding style as well :)
13:47<planetmaker>but... what should have changed? I didn't perceive any change...
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13:47<SmatZ>planetmaker: nothing should change
13:48<SmatZ>planetmaker: with splash3.diff, is the screen black or white?
13:48<SmatZ>that could change
13:50<planetmaker>actually... it first turns white, then black, then the title menu
13:50<planetmaker>nicely visible if there's a concurrent compile job slowing down everything ;-)
13:50<SmatZ>hehe :)
13:51<SmatZ>planetmaker: but there isn't any difference between splash3.diff and splash3b.diff, right?
13:51<planetmaker>SmatZ: there isn't. yes
13:52<andythenorth>time for something else...
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13:52<SmatZ>planetmaker: thank you :-)
13:52<planetmaker>as always, welcome :-)
13:52<SmatZ>planetmaker: could you please check applied to trunk compiles?
13:53<planetmaker>did it change?
13:53<planetmaker>since 18:46?
13:53<planetmaker>if not: yes, it compiles with the same result as before - and as should be expected, you coding-style nazi ;-)
13:54*planetmaker hugs SmatZ
13:55<planetmaker>btw: that was the concurrent compile job :-P
13:55<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17872 /trunk/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp:
13:55<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Codechange: apply coding style to splash.cpp
13:55<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Fix (r17871): missing variable declaration
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 288*2.25
13:55<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 648
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 304*2.25
13:57<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 684
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15:42<dihedral>SmatZ, yep there is a "splash screen"
15:43<dihedral>however, not like a splash screen jedit has for example
15:43<SmatZ>oh :)
15:43<SmatZ>I thought there is desktop visible when splash screen is shown
15:43<SmatZ>but it isn't
15:44<SmatZ>(it has the same size as OTTD window)
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15:45<dihedral>it is in the window
15:45<dihedral>and for me it takes a while till it gets there
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15:46<SmatZ>so I thought Alpha has to be == 0 so desktop is visible under the rest of window (outside the splash image)
15:46<SmatZ>but alpha has no effect
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15:49<dihedral>i get a load of dbg: [misc] Scanning for tars
15:49<dihedral>before the splash
15:50<dihedral>loads all content downloaded from bananas
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15:50<SmatZ>someone(tm) could change that
15:50<SmatZ>so splash screen is shown during tar scan
15:50<frosch123>but then it should be done for all os :)
15:51<SmatZ>unless it has to be done in that order
15:51<SmatZ>frosch123: how do you mean?
15:51<frosch123>hmm, never mind, i just noticed that you cannot print any text until the basegrfs are loaded
15:52<dihedral>dbg: [misc] Scanning for tars
15:52<dihedral>that is the first action after finding personal dir
15:52<frosch123>dihedral: use -d misc=1 -d grf=1
15:52<dihedral>i used -d9 :-P
15:53<frosch123>so it takes most time to print stuff to console?
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15:57<yorick>splash screen?
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16:10<dihedral>frosch123, it's more detailed at least ;-)
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16:32<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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17:17<PineappleBoy>hi, I need help
17:17<@Rubidium>me too
17:17<Alberth>hi, I need sleep
17:17<PineappleBoy>what files do I need to open OpenTTD?
17:17<@Rubidium>the ones mentioned in the readme?
17:18<PineappleBoy>but where is it
17:18<PineappleBoy>where in the readme
17:18<Alberth>section 4
17:18<CIA-9>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17873 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the advanced settings window nested
17:18<Alberth>as stated in the toc iirc
17:18<PineappleBoy>ah, thanks
17:20*frosch123 is very disappointed that noone on the forums complained about the nightly being late
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>who cares about nightlies anymore?
17:22<@Rubidium>at least 1 person who started to mention that there were no MSVC builds after two nightlies
17:22<+glx>why late ?
17:22<+glx>they are build at the same time
17:22<+glx>20:00 CET
17:23<Alberth>yes, but we shifted an hour :)
17:24<Sacro>zomg we did :o
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17:26<PineappleBoy>where do I find the .grf files
17:27<@Rubidium>glx: but... Belugas will be here an hour earlier
17:27<+glx>PineappleBoy: TTD files ?
17:28<frosch123>[22:23] <glx> 20:00 CET <- is that the same time as 2000 CEST?
17:28<PineappleBoy>I think so
17:28<PineappleBoy>from the readme.txt
17:28<Nite_Owl>U.S. does not time shift foe another week
17:28<+glx>frosch123: no, but 20:00 is still 20:00 :)
17:29<+glx>compile farm starts at 20:00 CE(S)T indeed
17:29<@Rubidium>Nite_Owl: for the parts of the U.S. that do shift
17:30<+glx>PineappleBoy: ask google for the files, we won't give links to them
17:30<frosch123>they shift on haloween?
17:30<Nite_Owl>I think only Arizona and parts of Indiana do not time shift
17:30<Alberth>frosch123: spooky..
17:30<@Rubidium>that's going to be a long night :)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>PineappleBoy: we can give you the hint to look for opengfx, though
17:31<Nite_Owl>technically it would be on November 1st
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>exception from the exception are the native territories within arizona :p
17:32<Alberth>lots of opportunities for time traveling
17:32*Rubidium always wonders how to do building jobs that work acros time zones
17:33<@Rubidium>suppliers coming too late/early etc
17:33<Sacro>any train drivers in here?
17:33<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
17:33<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 33 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>since when do contractors ever arrive on time?
17:33<Sacro>agh ><
17:33*Sacro needs to find some train drivers
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: i have a handful of trains, but they're not good for driving, really
17:34<@Rubidium>Sacro: maybe you can find some train drivers at say... a train station?
17:34<Sacro>Rubidium: yes, but not one's that i can get to stop and answer some questions
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of that april 1st article, about how train drivers oppose to the time shift, because they have to work an extra unpaid hour
17:35<Sacro>my stepmum had to work an extra hour last night
17:37<+glx>but it's compensated 6 month later
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>unless you don't work the nightshift in 6 months, or you have one less hour to do the same work in that nightshift == more stress
17:38<Nite_Owl>That always happened to me when I worked a midnight shift. I put in for the overtime when they went back and kept my mouth shut when they went ahead.
17:42<CIA-9>OpenTTD: alberth * r17874 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: vehicle details window uses pure nested widgets.
17:42<CaptObvious>you know what would rock in OpenTTD? an auto-levelling trackbuilding tool.
17:42<CaptObvious>so it carves out valleys to keep your track level
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17:44<Alberth>many users prefer to follow the terrain
17:44<Alberth>for you it may be easier to play at a level map to start with
17:44<CaptObvious>that's why it would be a separate tool
17:45<CaptObvious>I don't mind terraforming, I'd just prefer it to be a little easier
17:45<PineappleBoy>what is the 'installer'
17:45<PineappleBoy>like :
17:45<PineappleBoy>"If you are not using the installer to install OpenTTD, (or are just curious) you need to copy certain files by hand. "
17:45<PineappleBoy>for the mac one
17:46<@Rubidium>for mac there's no installer
17:46<PineappleBoy>so I need to .grf files?
17:46<CaptObvious>I'm tempted to write a small app that pulls the latest .zip from the openttd site and the .grf files too and just does it for you
17:46<@Rubidium>yes, with installer too... only with the installer the installer can copy the files for you and without the installer you have to copy them yourself
17:46*Alberth suggests to read the readme
17:46<+glx>on windows they are needed too, but the installer can copy them from the TTD CD
17:47<PineappleBoy>does it come with the .zip
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17:47<CIA-9>OpenTTD: smatz * r17875 /trunk/src/music/ (allegro_m.h extmidi.h): -Change [FS#3272]: prefer extmidi over allegro midi and allegro over null driver
17:47<@Rubidium>no, those file are, as explained in the readme, not our files but from a third party (that hasn't given us permission to (re)distribute those needed files)
17:48*frosch123 wonders what reemerge made X move from alt-f7 to alt-f8 :s
17:48-!-Aitor [] has quit [Quit: Aitor]
17:48<SmatZ>frosch123: didn't happen to me :(
17:48<CaptObvious>Rubidium - I take it attempts have been made to contact the owners of the copyright on them
17:48-!-Aitor [] has joined #openttd
17:48<SmatZ>just upgrade of xorg disabled Alt+Backspace by default...
17:49<@Rubidium>CaptObvious: dozens, yet no-one knows exactly who is the copyright owner
17:49-!-Aitor [] has quit []
17:49<CaptObvious>does the company that made TTD no longer exist?
17:50<+glx>it's part of infogrames now (if I followed correctly)
17:50<@Rubidium>or atari
17:50<+glx>infogrames bought atari ;)
17:50<@Rubidium>oh, it's become even messier
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>basically, there are two candidates, candidate A says "we don't own it" and candidate B says "we can't be bothered to find out whether we own it"
17:51<PineappleBoy>so do I need to find it on my own
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>PineappleBoy: like i said, search for opengfx
17:51<@Rubidium>yes, or look at the (unfinished) OpenGFX
17:51<+glx>TTD files are easy to find too
17:51<CaptObvious>am I allowed to link them in here?
17:51<@Rubidium> <- OpenGFX
17:52<CaptObvious>even though they're on orudge's site?
17:52<+glx>orudge's site is not related to openttd
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>just because $they are doing illegal things, doesn't mean we should support that
17:53<PineappleBoy>do I download the Latest Release?
17:53<PineappleBoy>or look at it
17:54<PineappleBoy>the link
17:54<@Rubidium>I know installing OpenTTD is a bitch because you've got to search for some stuff yourself, but there's hardly anything 'we' (the OpenTTD developers that can't draw/make proper sound effects) can solve
17:54<Nite_Owl>A forum search you should do. DONOTREADME you should also read.
17:55<@Rubidium>Yoda you should impersonate
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17:56<Nite_Owl>It does come in handy at times
17:56<PineappleBoy>do I look here ?
17:57-!-MizardX [] has quit [Quit: reboot]
17:57<Eddi|zuHause> <- Linus likes Windows 7 ;)
17:58<Nite_Owl>0.1.1 - yes
17:58<SmatZ>@seen yexo
17:58<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Yexo> yes, thanks
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>you missed it by 8 minutes and 5 seconds :(
17:59<planetmaker>[22:46] <CaptObvious> I'm tempted to write a small app that pulls the latest .zip from the openttd site and the .grf files too and just does it for you <-- you should look for autostart, autottd, and autoupdate
18:00<CaptObvious>planetmaker - it already exists? sweet.
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18:04<PineappleBoy>do I get the OpenGFX @ ?
18:05<Nite_Owl>0.1.1 - yes
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18:12<Nite_Owl>feeding time - later all
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18:34<Eddi|zuHause>hey, i think i have found a way how i can build my station with one less balancer track!
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>with the side effect of making two platforms slightly longer, without making the station itself (much) longer
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>the station itself gets like 1cm longer, but the two platforms get like 8cm longer
18:44<Terkhen>good night
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18:48<_ln>how many meters of railway do you have?
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18:56<ptr_>min_active_clients doesn't seem to be working
18:57<ptr_>anyone know why?
18:58<SmatZ>server is probably paused
18:58<SmatZ>try "unpause"
18:59<SmatZ>what version are you using?
18:59-!-Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59<ptr_>I did
18:59<ptr_>but I'm not running the server as dedicated
18:59<SmatZ>trunk is better wrt autopausing
18:59<SmatZ>I think those changes weren't backported to 0.7
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19:01<ptr_>it won't find the variable if I type "min_active_clients" in the console
19:01<ptr_>but it will find "min_players", which is an alias for min_active_clients
19:03<SmatZ>it works for me
19:03<SmatZ>"set min_active_clients"
19:04<ptr_>not for me :/
19:05<SmatZ>what does it say?
19:05<ptr_>Current value for 'min_active_clients' is: '1'
19:05<SmatZ>how is that broken?
19:05<ptr_>it won't work :)
19:05<ptr_>it's still running when i disconnect
19:05<ptr_>I've also tried changing the value to 2
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: i'd guess about 20m, or so, probably more
19:07<SmatZ>hmm yes
19:07<SmatZ>it looks broken
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: it's about 2,90m x 2,20m, and about 3 times round, so more like 30m, and i didn't use all tracks
19:08<ptr_>I don't have to restart the server or something?
19:08<SmatZ>ptr_: try opening a bugreport :) but I am not sure this will be fixed, maybe there won't be 0.7.4 anyway...
19:08<SmatZ>it's fixed in trunk
19:09<SmatZ>I don't really remember how it was supposed to work in 0.7
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: the problematic parts are the "special" tracks, the limited amount of switches, and the limited amount of special-length balancer tracks
19:09<ptr_>SmatZ: trunk? 0.7.0?
19:10<SmatZ>ptr_: ;)
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: maybe you can count the tracks over here:
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>the tracks are to scale, one standard straight is 177mm, one curve is 22.5° with a diameter of 880mm
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>shorter tracks are 1/3 or 2/3 of a standard track
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>so 118mm, 59mm or 15°, the narrower curve diameter is 760mm
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>calculate the rest by yourself ;)
19:13<+glx>ptr_: dedicated server?
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>a switch consists of one 1/1 straight, and a 2/3 (=15°) curve and 1/3 straight
19:14<ptr_>glx: no.
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>the crossings equal two 4/3 straight
19:15<+glx>IIRC this setting id for dedicated servers only
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: the program is supposed to be able to count the tracks by itself, but since it's the demo, i don't have the real track library, so i had to simulate the pieces from flex tracks, so the statistics can't distinguish them
19:18<ptr_>maybe I should try the dedicated server then.
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19:27<ptr_>yeah, it seems to be working when I'm using the dedicated server..
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19:31<+glx>maybe we should disable this setting totally for non dedicated servers
19:33<ptr_>or maybe it should just work :)
19:33<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: cool
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19:43<Eddi|zuHause>i know what i forgot
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>changing the time of the forced disconnect
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>whatever... i'm just going to have another one an hour from now
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20:50<Tefad>what was my quitmsg?
20:50<Sacro>[Remote host closed the connection]
20:50<welshdragon>Tefad left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
20:51<Tefad>thanks. i upgraded my IRC client on the fly and oftc got lost in the changeover
20:51<Tefad>other servers didn't disconnect : D
20:51<Tefad>just curious what the msg would be
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20:54<Tefad>now back to your regularly scheduled #openttd
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21:15<DarkTakua>hi, im wondering if is the gfx set?
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21:16<+glx>opengfx yes
21:16<DarkTakua>and which one is the mac one?
21:17<+glx>gfx works on any OS
21:17<DarkTakua>yea, but which file is it?
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21:22<PeterT>it's also availible on bananas
21:23<PeterT>but I'm guessing you need opengfx because you don't the original graphics
21:26<+glx>PeterT: yes for that the game must run :)
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21:32<DarkTakua>so where do i put the folder?
21:33<PeterT>into /data
21:33<DarkTakua>whats the / for?
21:34<PeterT>installation directory
21:34<DarkTakua>u mean..
21:34<DarkTakua>then data?
21:34<PeterT>first of all, do you have vista or xp?
21:35<PeterT>oh, then I don't know
21:36<PeterT>try that ^
21:36<+glx>read the readme :)
21:36<DarkTakua>there is none
21:36<DarkTakua>in the .zip?
21:37<+glx>openttd readme
21:37<+glx>all grfs go in data
21:37<+glx>location of data is specified in readme
21:39<DarkTakua>in which section
21:44<PeterT>did you get it?
21:45<PeterT>glx: can you include this patch into trunk?
21:46<DarkTakua>not yet..
21:46<DarkTakua>do I put the folder in the data folder?
21:50<+glx>there's a readme in the zip :)
21:50<+glx>but just put the .tar inside data
21:54<DarkTakua>then thats all?
21:54<PeterT>did it load? did openttd load?
21:54<+glx>you will probably need to add an empty in data too
21:55<DarkTakua>what do u mean
21:55<DarkTakua>like a new folder called
21:55<+glx>no a file
21:57<+glx>openttd needs tr*.grf and from TTD, opengfx provides replacements for tr*.grf but not for
21:58<DarkTakua>blur to me :/
21:58<+glx>nightlies can use opensfx as replacement, but 0.7.X releases can't, so you need the original or an empty one to start the game
21:59<DarkTakua>how do I get it?
21:59<DarkTakua>or is it the one with the picture
21:59<+glx>just create an empty file
22:00<DarkTakua>a file or folder
22:00<DarkTakua>so create a duplicate?
22:00<Eddi|zuHause>duplicate of what?
22:01<+glx>it just have to be empty
22:01<DarkTakua>idk how to make another :l
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>go to the console, into the data directory, and type "touch"
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>that will create an empty file
22:02<+glx>yes but the console is well hidden on mac :)
22:02<DarkTakua>I just search it :P
22:02<+glx>hmm terminal not console IIRC
22:02<+glx>console just log errors
22:03<DarkTakua>hmm, where is data dictionary
22:03<DarkTakua>no in console...
22:04<+glx>it's the same
22:04<+glx>cd ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data
22:04<DarkTakua>it empty
22:05<+glx>then 'ls' to check you see the same files as in Finder
22:05<DarkTakua>what about u do it ?
22:05<+glx>type 'ls' to see the content of the folder
22:05<DarkTakua>where tho
22:06<DarkTakua>where do I type it
22:06<Sacro>data is in /Library/Application\ Support/OpenTTD
22:07<+glx>Sacro: it can be in ~/Documents/OpenTTD too
22:07<Sacro>hmm, true
22:07<DarkTakua>go in terminal?
22:07<+glx>then 'cd'
22:08<+glx>to the data dir where you put opengfx.tar
22:08<+glx>cd ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data
22:08<DarkTakua>oh ok
22:09<+glx>then ls
22:09<+glx>you should see opengfx.tar
22:09<+glx>where did you put opengfx.tar ?
22:09<DarkTakua>in the folder...
22:09<+glx>which one?
22:09<DarkTakua>let me check..
22:10<DarkTakua>maybe I put it in the wrong one.. O.O
22:10<DarkTakua>okay there
22:11<DarkTakua>dangit -.-
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22:11<+glx>now ls shows it ?
22:11<DarkTakua>type it in terminal?
22:11<DarkTakua>nothing :|
22:12<+glx>check with ls
22:12<+glx>ok now you can start openttd
22:12<DarkTakua>that was super hard just for 1 game...
22:12<DarkTakua>thanks man
22:13<+glx>of course you won't have sound :)
22:13<Sacro>feel free to whistle though
22:14<DarkTakua>how do I enable it
22:14<+glx>get original
22:14<DarkTakua>or is there...
22:14<DarkTakua>toooo much work
22:14*DarkTakua goes and plays
22:14<DarkTakua>thanks again
22:14<DarkTakua> :)
22:14<+glx>anyway original data files are not hard to find :)
22:15<+glx>google knows where
22:15<+glx>but we can't give you any link to them
22:17<+glx>else they would be in the package ;)
22:19<PeterT>google "download transport tycoon"
22:19<PeterT>yes, google is a verb
22:20<+glx>PeterT: there's no need to tell what to ask :)
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22:24<Eddi|zuHause>hm... my calculation says i have 65m of track, that doesn't look right right there...
22:25<DarkTakua>is there a way to like move left and right, up and down?
22:26<Markk>Press and hold your left mousebutton
22:26<Markk>(And move the mouse)
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22:27<DarkTakua>dont work
22:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm, 33m, that sounds more like it
22:27<DarkTakua>arrow keys better
22:27<Markk>I mean
22:27<Markk>I'm lefthanded
22:27<Eddi|zuHause>so if i consider the unused tracks, something around 40m of tracks probably
22:28<DarkTakua>and is there a way to build houses.?
22:30<DarkTakua>they just build on it's own?
22:30<Markk>Yes, if you're helping it with transports too and from the city and run a goods-line to it
22:31<Markk>Then the city will be happe and build houses o/
22:31<Markk>(Only passenger is needed though) :)
22:32<Markk>You should read the wiki tough
22:32<Markk>Many good tips and hints in there
22:32<Markk>You know the adress?
22:33<Markk>No problem :)
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23:27<DarkTakua>where do i put extra ships?
23:28<Sacro>in the water
23:28<Sacro>not on roads
23:28<Sacro>or rails
23:28<DarkTakua>what folder
23:28<Sacro>in water
23:28<Sacro>oh, data folder
23:29<Sacro>also not in a small lake
23:30<DarkTakua> do i get cars etc on roads?
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23:46<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: the most accurate calculation i can get is 34,5m of tracks built on my floor
23:57<DarkTakua>how do I get cars on the roads?
---Logclosed Mon Oct 26 00:00:46 2009