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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-10-28

---Logopened Wed Oct 28 00:00:46 2009
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03:30<Terkhen>good morning
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03:35<dihedral>morning
03:35<boekabart>idem dito
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04:46<Xaroth>morning dihedral
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06:44<pva>hi all
06:44<pva>can anyone give me directions for the openttd code? I'd like to get involved...
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06:47<@Rubidium>depends on what you want; the question is, to me at least, ambiguous. Either you want a link to the source code or you want to know where "something" is handling in the source code
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07:41<dihedral>he seems very interested :-P
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08:02<bartavelle>hello
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08:05<pva>sorry, I had lunch :)
08:07<pva>my intention is to understand the architecture: I am really impressed by the performance and stability
08:08<pva>Actually my first idea was to add 'cases' to strings. But then I found that it is already available (but not used though).
08:09<planetmaker>it is used, pva
08:09<pva>So now I just want to understand the main picture.
08:09<planetmaker>just not in the English language
08:09<pva>not for russian... :(
08:09<planetmaker>if it's not needed there...
08:10<planetmaker>it's a task for translators to handle that properly
08:10<pva>:)))))))))))
08:10<pva>yes, I agree
08:10<pva>but believe me, cases are needed in russian
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08:10<planetmaker>Well. But maybe not for the translation of OpenTTD.
08:11<planetmaker>Most languages need them. But some don't need them for translating the strings in OpenTTD
08:11<pva>I just see that russian translation sometimes... not acceptable.
08:11<planetmaker>then become a translator.
08:11<planetmaker>and make it better
08:11<pva>Good idea, I'll givi it a try.
08:12<planetmaker>It's a very easy thing to do. Just register as translator. You'll be accepted within 24h usually and then just go to translator.openttd.org and change the strings which need them
08:12<pva>But anyway, I'd like to explore the project.
08:12<planetmaker>nice and easy web interface for it
08:12<planetmaker>Then get the code and have a look
08:13<pva>ok
08:13<planetmaker>Also the doxygen documentation might help you.
08:13<planetmaker>it's all online, too
08:13<pva>Yes, it is very nice. I saw it
08:14<planetmaker>but you'll have a hard time, if you go and ask "please walk me through OpenTTD's code (structure)".
08:14<pva>I just wonder if any general overview is available or not.
08:14<planetmaker>That's a task which cannot be done.
08:14<pva>no-no, it is not necessary :)
08:14<pva>I just wanted to find an overview
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08:15<planetmaker>well... what does constitute an "overview" in your eyes?
08:15<pva>the closest thing I found is the description of namespaces
08:15<planetmaker>the source files all have well-chosen names
08:16<planetmaker>I also assume, you know tt-forums.net ?
08:16<pva>ok, I just need the edge to start. So again, the first thing I wanted to change was Format(), but it is already featured enough...
08:16<planetmaker>There's quite an active development sub-forum for OpenTTD where a lot of people publish their source patches
08:17<pva>Yes, I have sources and so on.
08:17<planetmaker>From those discussions you might also get an impression on how it works
08:17<pva>Ah, ok. Thanks for the hint
08:17<pva>I didn't dig through forum...
08:19<pva>Ok, one more question: is OpenTTD development independent on TTDPatch dev?
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>fairly independent
08:20<planetmaker>quite. It's different programmes
08:20<planetmaker>They share a common newgrf format for extensions
08:21<dihedral>and do not ask which one is better :-P
08:21<planetmaker>^ indeed. Never.
08:21<pva>OpenTTD is.
08:21<planetmaker>no
08:21<pva>:) I didn't ask
08:21<planetmaker>Don't state which one is better either ;-)
08:21<planetmaker>the results will be ugly
08:21<planetmaker>They're different :-)
08:22<pva>I wouldn't get involved into the holy war :)
08:22<pva>I didn't play TTDPatch, so I have nothing to say and to compare with.
08:23<pva>I am interested in OpenTTD, because... it is open
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08:26<Ammler>TTDPatch is open too
08:28<pva>Is it available for MacOS X?
08:28<planetmaker>TTDP: no. OpenTTD: yes
08:28<pva>ok, thank you
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08:29<planetmaker>You can earn merits by fixing all OSX-related bugs.
08:29<planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2782?project=1&order=id&sort=desc
08:29<pva>Unfortunately, I am win/*nix programmer. I just like to use MacOSX
08:30<planetmaker>hä?
08:30<planetmaker>you use MacOS but programme on win/*nix? That doesn't make sense...
08:31<pva>I _did not_ program for mac os x yet
08:32<planetmaker>then start now
08:32<pva>I just mean that I have no experience with all this cocoa etc.
08:32<planetmaker>:-)
08:32<pva>:)
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08:33<planetmaker>there's a horde of people "oh, yeah, I want to help. But I don't know how to programme" Especially, if it comes to maintaining the OSX port
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08:35<pva>I know how to program for about fifteen years... I see no need of my help now: I thought that there is a problem with 'cases', but there isn't.
08:36<pva>I was impressed with TTD when it appeared and I am impressed still.
08:36<pva>So I want to understand it. That's it.
08:37<planetmaker>... whatever
08:37<pva>I am pretty sure, as soon as I understand details, I will suggest fixes/features.
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08:45<dihedral><pva> Is it available for MacOS X? <- now i like that comment
08:45<dihedral>so.... are you interested in doing some os x specific coding??
08:46<pva>not yet. I _have_ to understand the project first.
08:46<dihedral>but.... there definately is space for os x coding :-)
08:46<pva>I have already applied for translator to fix the most annoying things.
08:46<Xaroth>o/ dihedral
08:47<pva>And after this I will have a look at max os x coding :)
08:47<pva>But personally, the project is pretty stable under Leopard, why bother? :)
08:47<Xaroth>because it's not pretty and not stable under snow leopard :P
08:48<pva>:)
08:48<pva>I have no show leo yet :)
08:50<dihedral>show leo :-P
08:50<dihedral>i have not showed leo either
08:50<dihedral>how on earth is leo then ever going to know?
08:51<Xaroth>rawr
08:51<pva>:)
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09:06<marc-andre>hiho
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09:11<marc-andre>i miss brianetta's standard server...
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09:19<@Rubidium>most people do
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>i'd like to mention that "most people" didn't even know about its existence :p
09:20<@Rubidium>then why are most people that look for a 'good' server mention brianetta's server?
09:20<marc-andre>yeah
09:20<marc-andre>and everywhere is nrianetta's server THE reference for a good ottd server
09:20<marc-andre>*brianetta
09:21<marc-andre>i'll set up a replacement server for brianetta's standard...
09:22<Noldo>what is it that made it so good?
09:22<marc-andre>the way you played in it
09:22<planetmaker>admin-attention
09:22<@Rubidium>Noldo: the active moderator!
09:22<marc-andre>the newGRFs used
09:22<planetmaker>a good server needs an admin which is reachable.
09:22<marc-andre>yub yub
09:22<planetmaker>There's at most a hand full of servers which have that
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09:23<marc-andre>planetmaker: but not the same rules
09:24<marc-andre>planetmaker: nor the same conditions you played with
09:24<marc-andre>how many times did i go into a server, created a company, built a line and went off for an hour to actually work and come back just to see that my company got cleaned
09:26<LordAzamath>well if they didn't erase your companies, all servers would be full with idle companies
09:26<LordAzamath>for people who actually DONT come back
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09:28<+glx>autoclean is ok, but not after 1 hour
09:28<@Belugas>hello
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>1h == 4 years
09:31<+glx>4 years is quite short for auto clean
09:34<planetmaker>it should be like 30 hours (real-time) or so.
09:34<planetmaker>at least if the game runs longer than a day
09:34<planetmaker>at least for protected companies
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09:35<planetmaker>:-)
09:38<Splex>when i scroll the map using RMB, the movement is as really slow, much slower than my mouse cursor sensitivity.. anyone else having this problem?
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: is it the same when the game is paused?
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes => it's your graphics driver
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>no => your game is too big
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09:40<Splex>same paused as unpaused
09:41<Splex>i tried changing the map size and that doesn't change things
09:41<dihedral><Rubidium> then why are most people that look for a 'good' server mention brianetta's server? <- most people looking for a good server != most people :-P
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: then the next information you need to gather is your OS, the backend used, and the blitter used
09:42<@Belugas>and the Openttd version
09:42<@Belugas>LATEST DOES NOT APPLY
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09:43<dihedral>planetmaker, you sould set up a server admind by openttdcoop admins but not played in coop ^^
09:43<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, 0.7.3, Archlinux, 32bpp-anim
09:44<planetmaker>dihedral, we once had a stable 0.7.0 server (when that was current)
09:44<Splex>i tried 32bpp-optimized as well, same problem
09:44<planetmaker>was quite fun actually. But...
09:44<dihedral>planetmaker, there ONCE was a server by brian :-P
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: and if you try 8bpp?
09:44<planetmaker>haha :-)
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09:45<planetmaker>yes, once. But dunno whether I want to maintain such server, too
09:45<planetmaker>Only, if I get a proper web interface for managing it.
09:45<planetmaker>e.g. a working web config again
09:45<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, 8bpp-optimized is the same.
09:45<planetmaker>btw, dih, openttdlib seems to act a bit funny lately...
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: ATI card?
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: it's most likely your graphic card driver not providing 2D-acceleration
09:46<Splex>nvidia
09:46<dihedral>planetmaker, show me
09:46<dihedral>link?
09:47<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, the framerate is fast, also.. it wasn't a problem before in earlier versions
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09:48<Ammler>planetmaker: don't give him a link from openttdcoop.org ;-)
09:48<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, 0.7.2 works great, same settings.
09:49<Ammler>(there something else is buggy, I fear)
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: then check if it switched between sdl and allegro as backend
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>Splex: other than that, i have no idea
09:49<Ammler>oh we should still start our server called " ! ! ! "
09:51<+glx>Splex: start with -d driver1 to check what drivers are used
09:51<@Belugas>of course, this is exactly trhe kind of server i'd never connect to...
09:51<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, that is the problem.
09:52<Ammler>Belugas: check the first 10 servers :-D
09:52<Splex>I did -v sdl and all is working
09:52<Splex>strange that it changed the default like that
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if 0.7.2 even had allegro
09:52<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, I will check
09:53<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, its not an option
09:53<dihedral>Ammler: i would be able to tell if it's openttdcoop or openttdlib :-P
09:53<planetmaker>Ammler, you think it's the publicserver screwing, not openttdlib?
09:53<Ammler>it is since I moved the web to my server
09:53<planetmaker>like ps.openttdcoop.org ?
09:53<@Belugas>"There are 130 clients, 180 IPv4 servers and 2 IPv6 servers."
09:53<planetmaker>oh... well. Then it's a good idea indeed to re-do everything :-)
09:53<@Belugas>incredible... as always, more servers than clients
09:54<LordAzamath>lmao
09:54<Ammler>KenjiE20: is working on it ;-)
09:54<@Belugas>what's the use of so many servers??? Apart comforting the admins ego...
09:54<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/OpenTTDLib/latest/example2.php <- Ammler, planetmaker
09:54<planetmaker>Belugas, why apart? ;-)
09:55<Ammler>dihedral: I am aware of it's working ;-)
09:55<@Belugas>indeed :)
09:55<planetmaker>sorry dih :-) Obviously then it's my mis-conception :-)
09:55<Splex>Eddi|zuHause, thanks for the help
09:55<dihedral>well, you can still show me
09:55<planetmaker>well. ps.openttdcoop.org :-)
09:56<Ammler>such a short grflist but still obsolete grfs in there :-(
09:56<planetmaker>Ammler, I've seen worse. PSG with red marked grfs...
09:56<dihedral>planetmaker, OpenTTDLib_Page_Detail_Info()
09:56<dihedral>go back do brians server
09:57<dihedral>there was a functions.php or something in the theme
09:57<planetmaker>ah, ok
09:57<planetmaker>maybe that's it then
09:57<dihedral>at least grep for the function name
09:57<dihedral>in the wordpress folder
09:57<dihedral>i believe you are basically missing that
09:57<Ammler>yeah, everything copied
09:57<Ammler>my server is the issue, maybe fw or a missing lib or so...
09:58<dihedral>yes, it should be in the functions.php
09:58<LordAzamath>Is there any way to make OpenTTD automagically download anything from Bananas without actually having the original graphics. Like a clean install.
09:58<LordAzamath>Or do I have to get them manually :P
09:58<Ammler>afaik windows nightly installer does that
09:59<dihedral>then you are missing the openttdlib install directory
09:59<+glx>Ammler: it does, but nightlies don't use installer ;)
09:59<dihedral>http://paste.openttd.org/217613
09:59<dihedral>that's the thing you would need in functions.php
10:00<dihedral>as of line 5
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10:02<dihedral>so in / you need the folder openttdlib ONLY containing the libs
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10:09<Ammler>thanks dihedral, I will tell it to our mates :-)
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11:23*Xaroth prods Ammler
11:23<Xaroth>you broke your redmine yet? :P
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11:26<Ammler>no, I have no idea, how :-)
11:27<Xaroth>heh
11:27<Ammler>but well, the system has 1GB ram, so this might be the difference
11:27<Ammler>and i use trunk
11:27<Xaroth>yeh, but using 1gb ram on a single web app is a bit OTT :P
11:28<Ammler>we don't have vm's, everything on the same
11:28<Xaroth>still, what's the mem usage of redmine atm?
11:28<Ammler>15MB
11:28<Xaroth>o_O
11:30<Ammler>no, it is 15%
11:30<Xaroth>so, 160mb
11:33<Ammler>4 rupy processes together use that, yes.
11:34<Ammler>with top that is
11:34<Ammler>and the apache modul uses another 5%
11:35<Ammler>mysql 2%
11:36<Ammler>and around daily, the apache does restart because of either not reachable at all or "derailed"
11:37<Ammler>since I "tunned" mysql, that seems fine
11:39<Ammler>http://pastebin.ca/1646586 <-- that is my monitoring tool :-)
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11:45<Stephan>hello, anybody here?
11:46<Zuu>Yes
11:46<Zuu>There are lots of people here :-)
11:46<Stephan>but all idle :D
11:46<Stephan>anyway, does anybody know what happened to Brianetta’s standard server?
11:47<@Rubidium>yes
11:47<Zuu>It was closed because he didn't play on it himself for like a year or so.
11:47<Stephan>me neither :D
11:47<@Rubidium>some guy called Brianetta thought he didn't play enough on the server so he decided to stop it
11:47<Stephan>that’s why I wondered
11:47<Stephan>too bad.
11:47<Stephan>can you give me a hint which servers are aimed at realistic gameplay
11:47<Stephan>?
11:48<Zuu>Well, how should you be able to take responsibility for a server that you don't play on yourself.
11:48<Stephan>you know, with nice people and no jerks that build stupid networks
11:49<Goulp>what do you mean *realistic gameplay* ?
11:49<Stephan>like not aimed at plain money making or speed
11:49<@Rubidium>so, bye bye all servers with 'goal' in their name :)
11:50<Stephan>a server with people that adhere to common sense when building a network
11:50<Stephan>and not scraping through the entire landscape
11:50<@Rubidium>then ignore all servers not running your prefered version and servers without clients/companies
11:50<Stephan>:-P
11:51<Stephan>Brianetta’s server was really nice actually
11:51<Stephan>something comparable to that
11:51<@Rubidium>should leave say... maybe 10% of the servers
11:51<planetmaker>hehe :-)
11:52<Stephan>and which ones are these 10%? any ideas?
11:52<@Rubidium>sometimes ottdcoop might be somewhat for you, although they focus on performance they sometimes have a 'no terraform' rule
11:52<Stephan>ah, sounds good
11:52<planetmaker>but we usually don't feature more than one company.
11:52<Stephan>ah that means all people work together in one company
11:52<planetmaker>So... what is going to be built is a common decision
11:52<planetmaker>yes
11:53<Zuu>dihedral had a nice server, especially when it was called "fair play server".
11:53<planetmaker>that's why we call ourselves #openttd*coop*
11:53<planetmaker>also true, Zuu
11:53<Stephan>fair play… that’s the term I’m looking for, I guess
11:53<planetmaker>also fell into decay...
11:53<planetmaker>:-(
11:53<Stephan>aww
11:53<pva>isn't it a matter of the game balance? I mean, 'fair play'
11:54<planetmaker>not really, pva. At least to my opinion
11:54<Stephan>yes, sure. but the balance can also be how you build your networks
11:54<Stephan>a well balanced network between profit making and “beauty”, so to speak
11:54<pva>I can win without any network
11:55<pva>just with planes, you know
11:55<Stephan>whatever.
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11:56<planetmaker>Stephan, that's the balance you have to decide yourself. But not the "game balance" :-)
11:56<Stephan>so there aren’t any servers comparable to Brianetta’s or dihedral’s?
11:56<pva>but it is a bug in my opinion and I usually use it to relax a little bit :)
11:56<planetmaker>pva, not on a server w/o planes ;-)
11:56<pva>haha, yeah
11:56<planetmaker>ships only server :-D
11:56<planetmaker>ships with yapf pf
11:58<pva>buses annoy, too...
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12:20<Zuu>Hmmm, any GRF artists that uses Gimp? Seams that you need a plugin to save the palette from an existing pcx file to something Gimp can use in the color selection palette. :-s
12:21<Ammler>no
12:22<Zuu>I got an idea for the fizzy drinks industry for OpenGFX.
12:22<Ammler>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/2
12:22<Zuu>Oh, nice didn't find those.
12:22<planetmaker>Zuu, do you need basically the TTD palettes for gimp? Or...?
12:23<planetmaker>he, seems you found what you looked for ;-)
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12:24<frosch123>[17:21] <Zuu> I got an idea for the fizzy drinks industry for OpenGFX. <- don't forget the special fizzy drink colour cycle :)
12:24<planetmaker>frosch123, that's action colours then :-)
12:24<Sacro>Can all UK voters please lobby their MP - http://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/ask-your-mp-to-help-protect-our-freedoms-on-the-net
12:24<Zuu>Let me come up with a base first :-)
12:24<planetmaker>so... you might want to use the full newgrf palette
12:25<planetmaker>take your time :-)
12:25<Zuu>A bit further away from my 20 secods paper draft. :-)
12:25<Zuu>seconds*
12:26<blathijs>Sacro: What's an MP?
12:26<planetmaker>member of parliament?
12:26<Zuu>Ammler: Thanks for that link. Worked good
12:26<blathijs>Ah, right
12:27<Xaroth> < Ammler> and around daily, the apache does restart because of either not reachable at all or "derailed" << in other words, the app is structurally failing and you accept it to do so :P
12:27<Ammler>no, it is quite ugly
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12:34<Sacro>blathijs: what planetmaker said
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12:59<dihedral>i have not hosted a game for a bit now
13:00<dihedral>not entirely sure i want to start it again :-P
13:03<@Belugas>please no!!! DON'T!!!!!
13:04<dihedral>well.... of course just to annoy you
13:04<@Belugas>prrrrrt
13:04*dihedral pats Belugas on the head
13:05<@Belugas>bleblebleblebleb
13:05<frosch123>dihedral: every server needs some unique property. so use 0.5.0 rc 4
13:05<dihedral>define property ^^
13:06<frosch123>"by dih" is not enough
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13:07<dihedral>0.5.0 rc4 was in fact the first version i ran as a server :-P
13:08<frosch123>:o
13:09<dihedral>perhaps i'd run one when avignon, the new autopilot, is that far ^^
13:10<Goulp>sur le pont d'avignon...
13:10<dihedral>i hear that everytime!!!
13:13<@Belugas>duh!
13:13<dihedral>176 clients, 186 IPv4 servers and 1 IPv6 servers <- just 11 players short.....
13:13<dihedral>then we'd have one player per server :-P
13:14<Zuu>Oh, cool accidently got some action colors for the fizzy drinks. Now the drinks flash :-)
13:16-!-pavel1269 [~chatzilla@r2ao16.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd
13:22<@Belugas>the flash comes from the sun reflecting on the aluminium of the drink while the user is swalloing it
13:22<@Belugas>... whatever... insatinyy
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13:23<dihedral>Belugas you are in a lovely mood today
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13:31<@Belugas>yu havent seen me yesterday...
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13:33<dihedral>well, then at least you are improving
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13:35<@Belugas>hehehe
13:35<@Belugas>so you think :)
13:35<Goulp>one client per server, a client might be a spectator, and not a player
13:36<@Belugas>let say that if i didn't kicked anyone would not mean i'm in a gloruious goody mood :)
13:39<dihedral>Goulp: even specs are clients!!!
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: translators * r17896 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: greek - 100 changes by fumantsu
13:46<CIA-9>OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 changes by prof
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14:31<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17897 /trunk/src/ (8 files):
14:31<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3255]: CB15 and CB36 (capacity) were not always called when they should.
14:31<CIA-9>OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move capacity calculation to a single function for all vehicle types, so the behaviour can be kept consistent easier.
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14:32<muep_>hi
14:33<muep_>if I place a railway station next to an iron ore mine, should I expect iron ore to eventually get there?
14:33<@Rubidium>only if:
14:33<@Rubidium>a) at least one train tried to pick it up
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>b) not more than one other station with higher rating is surrounding the mine
14:34<@Rubidium>b) you have disabled the 'deliver cargo to station only when there is demand' option
14:35<muep_>need to check
14:35<@Rubidium>hmm, for clarity: from my options you need at least one
14:35<@Rubidium>and Eddi|zuHause's option is required in any case
14:35<muep_>thanks
14:36<muep_>I had the problem with an iron ore train waiting on the station, but getting no ore from there
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause>with some train sets, you have to make sure the wagon is actually refitted to ore
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15:26<Spucoly>Could any one tell me how to open openttd 7.3. I'v set up the .gif and .cat file like in the pre vr's. what am i doing wrong
15:26<Spucoly>Hello
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15:33<@Belugas>gif?
15:33<@Belugas>vr's?
15:33<@Belugas>open?
15:33<@Belugas>7.3?
15:33<@Belugas>ho boy...
15:34<@Belugas>and 2 minutes!!!!
15:34<@Belugas>ho booo!
15:35<Muxy>double click on the openttd.exe, and read error message if any. Windows, linux, ??
15:35<Zuu>LOL, wondered why I couldn't remove a pink special color pixel just to a few tries realize that it was not pink, but transparent. There was a pink tree behind. (toyland)
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16:16<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17898 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (4 files): -Fix: [NoAI] Improve behaviour of (AIEngine|AIEventEnginePreview)::GetCargoType() and AIEngine::CanRefitCargo() wrt. articulated vehicles.
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16:31<dihedral>why do people assume everybody is running windows? :-S
16:32<frosch123>maybe they do not know something else
16:32<frosch123>maybe they do not know about windows either, and take it as synonym for computer
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>i know people who think the computer is the bright thingie on the desk, and after years wonder what that weird useless box underneath is for
16:34<frosch123>hehe, my mother usually calls it "motor" as it does all the noise
16:36<Chruker>Mine often calls it the CPU
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16:46<@Belugas>which make her a little more savvy than the vast majority
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16:59<_ln>probably the most interesting sand-related video on the tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOhf3OvRXKg
17:02<andythenorth>evening
17:02<Zuu>good night andy
17:03<Zuu>Or was that a greeting? :-s
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17:09<CIA-9>OpenTTD: frosch * r17899 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: Deduplicate code for refitting vehicles.
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17:10<andythenorth>Zuu: greeting :)
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17:10<Ammler>Zuu: would you also like to code the sprites?
17:11<Zuu>I have been able to encode them back into a grf as you might see from the screenshot.
17:11<Zuu>Didn't make any changes to the dimensions or anything.
17:12<Zuu>But at the end it might be easier if i just give you the sprites and possible alignment changes and then you can put them into the set. Since I have no idea how I would do that. I mean do you just keep the entire pcx file or do you have some kind of compiler for that file?
17:15<Ammler>we compile the parts together
17:15<Zuu>Looking at the website I got the impression of that.
17:15<Ammler>but the nfo is still one big file :-)
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17:16<Zuu>Sure, but version control for text files is a lot better too :-)
17:16<Ammler>well, you know the address?
17:16<Ammler>if you like to provide a patch :-)
17:17<Zuu>Well, the first step is to actually have some nfo changes. (which I do not have at the moment)
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17:17<Ammler>but it is up2you, I guess, we should also be able to include it without patch ;-)
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17:17<Zuu>Not sure if I shall try to resolve the tap-issue before submitting it.
17:17<Zuu>And in that case there will be some nfo involved.
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17:18<Ammler>you mean nfo Actions?
17:18<Zuu>No, just changing the size of the sprites.
17:18<Zuu>Rubidium just told me that is possible.
17:18<Zuu>But I guess that to big enlargements can cause blitting problems too.
17:18<Ammler>yes, it is.
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>maximum sprite size is 256, afaik
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't really know what you're talking about
17:21<frosch123>Zuu: actually you cannot cut the sprites like that without causing glitches with foundations
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17:22<Zuu>frosch123: Cutting like what?
17:22<Zuu>Like I have done on tt-forums or as I am planing to try?
17:22<frosch123>on tt-forums
17:23<Zuu>That was how they appeared in the pcx file I decoded.
17:23<frosch123>put the factory on foundations, and you should see
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17:24<frosch123>hmm, oh, maybe you are right
17:24<Zuu>Looks good on foundations here. (with the version that is on tt-forums)
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17:25<frosch123>in that case you have to make sure that 4742 and 4741 are cut between the left corner of the south tile and the right corner of the west tile
17:26<Zuu>Okay, then my overlap won't work. Even if it will be mostly transparent?
17:26<frosch123>transparency does not count
17:27<Zuu>"4742 sprites/ogfx1_base.pcx 674 21000 09 78 23 -22 -53" <-- how do I change the width of the sprite (+ 8 pixels)
17:28<frosch123>78 23 <- that are y and x dimensions
17:28<Zuu>Thanks
17:28<frosch123> -22 -53 <- that is the offset
17:28<frosch123>i.e. whether you want to enlarge to left/top/right/bottom
17:28<Zuu>In decimal or hex?
17:28<frosch123>mind that size is in y and x, and offset is in x and y
17:28<frosch123>all decimal
17:28<Zuu>Nice :-)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>that format is usually described in the 3rd line of the NFO
17:30<frosch123>of course you could also press ctrl+b and make sure that the sprites to not extend over their individual bounding boxes
17:31<Zuu>Eddi: You are right, I was too quick on locating the correct line in the file.
17:37<Zuu>Okay testing it, the 4741 sprite is drawn ontop of 4742, so extending the tap "over" that sprite does not help. But I think I'll extend it as much as possible to not make it hover in the air at least. :-)
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17:48<Zuu>Hmm, it is not deterministic which order the different parts appear?
17:50<@Rubidium>technically it is (input being 'location' of the tile loop at construction + location of the industry), visually probably not so
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>means it is deterministic, but not constant
17:53<Ammler>afaik the sprites shouldn't overlap anyway
17:53<Ammler>as that migth glitch the transparent mode
17:55<Zuu>Right now there is a small overlap of a few pixels, but I can remove that with the consequence of having a hovering tap for a few seconds.
17:55<Zuu>It looks okay in transparent mode too. But if it is out of principle I can remove it.
17:57<frosch123>Zuu: as all three sprites are drawn in bounding boxes, 4741 is always drawn in front. the other two are not defined in their order
17:59<frosch123>but it might get cropped nevertheless if it extends to far to left and right
17:59<Zuu>Yea, unless i do major work I will have a small glitch at the construction phase. The question is though if I should limit the glitch a bit by having a small overlap of the transparent parts of the sprites.
18:02<Zuu>I could include the tap already in 4738, but then that sprite will need to be moved around a bit in the pcx file, and I rather keep it simple.
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18:11<Zuu>Ammler: Unless there is an objection against the slight overlap I think the Fuzzy drinks factory can be added now. I'd better spend my time on the toy factory or something else than polishing the fuzzy drinks factory to death. That a better artist can do later on. :-)
18:13<Ammler>there is a comment in the according ticket, no idea, what that means :-) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/115#note-2
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18:25<Zuu>Ammler: Okay, I guess you have a backup-script runnig right now or something becaue the site is unaccesible. So I'll have to wait a little before reading that.
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18:44<|Terkhen|>good night
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19:02<Zuu>good night
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19:04<@Belugas>good night
19:05<SmatZ>good night, Belugas
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---Logclosed Thu Oct 29 00:00:00 2009