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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-04

---Logopened Wed Nov 04 00:00:48 2009
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06:56<Luukland>Can someone maybe give me an answer: Can coders be able to activate particular vehicles from a set?
06:57<Luukland>Or does the packet that the server receives from a client contain too vage information?
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07:47<dihedral>Luukland, the server has the state and distributes and schedules doCommands
07:47<dihedral>the state includes which grf for example is to be loaded
07:48<dihedral>however, it cannot en/disable a specific vehicle in the grf (at least not on the client side)
07:48<Luukland>if packet client buy vehicle
07:48<Luukland>(Dunno the exact name)
07:49<Luukland>the server can ignore it, once it containes specific build information
07:49<Luukland>or can execute it
07:49<Luukland>but thats why I need to know if specific vehicle ID gets broadcasted
07:52<dihedral>what are you trying to do?
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07:53<@Rubidium>cause bug reports like "I'm trying to build train X and it doesn't work in multiplayer, but it does work in singleplayer"
07:54<Luukland>dihedral I am not announcing such things here, cos some people like Rubidium can't handle it very well
07:55<Luukland>may I query you?
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07:55<dihedral>Luukland, if you want to muck around with the code, and don't feel like Rubidium may here it, take it to /dev/null and don't report bugs
07:56<@Rubidium>it's more that I can't fix bug reports that I can't reproduce / are caused by custom modification I don't have the code of
07:56<dihedral>people who then report bugs are annoying!
07:57<Luukland>dihedral I am not going to much with the code :P
07:57<Luukland>I have other team members who can do that way better then me
07:58<Goulp>actually vehicles are a(de)ctivated with the game date
07:58<dihedral>then ask them to come here and talk, because you yourself are asking questions which you should not be relaying for your 'team members' if you dont understand what is going on
07:58<Luukland>ok I will get one
07:58*Luukland gets a team member :p
07:58<Goulp>he is asking if there is another way of (de)activating vehicles
07:59<dihedral>how good that he knows crap of what is going on behind the scenes ^^
07:59<Luukland>Goulp = Team member :)
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08:00<Goulp>as said : vehicle are activated with the game date, is there another way from server side to do it ?
08:01<dihedral>you make a custom server and then just have poor Luukland report them as bugs
08:01<dihedral>and then he does not understand when Rubidium turns them down
08:01<dihedral>and then both of them are annoyed
08:02<Goulp>does it made such bugs reports ? (need to check)
08:02<dihedral>and then you say devs are crap, because you hear back from Luukland what bad, naughty Rubidium did to his report
08:02<blathijs>Goulp: You've still not answered the actual question. What are you trying to do and why?
08:02<Luukland>dihedral, there seems to be a misunderstanding here, I have never uploaded any bug reports?
08:02<dihedral>blathijs, disable vehicle id's from being build by using another method (server side) other than game date
08:02<dihedral>Luukland, but others would
08:03<dihedral>people who play on your server perhaps....
08:03<Goulp>we would like to (de)activate vehicle with another parameter than game date and this from server side
08:03<Luukland>would, or have?
08:03<dihedral>oh - sorry - i forgot to ask: do you have people who play on your server?
08:03<Luukland>:) Plenty
08:03<dihedral>Goulp, disable the feature in question, i.e. max_ships = 0
08:03<Luukland>You speak like as if you are getting bug reports from us :S
08:03<dihedral>uh - no ships can be built
08:03<Goulp>no, particular vehicle from the set
08:04<dihedral>Luukland, you = you yourself, one of your members, or anybody enountering an issue after playing on your modified server
08:04<Luukland>yes, but you said: they would; but they dont now?
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08:05<Goulp>there is no bugs on luukland server, only some feature can be disabled, but in this case player has a message
08:05*Luukland agrees
08:06<Luukland>can you give me a link to an uploaded bug dihedral on which you are referring to?
08:06<Luukland>Where Luukland's costum server is in?
08:07<@Rubidium>you mean that when you reject a command (without kicking the client for misbehaviour) you can show a custom error message at the user side without the network command to show such a message?
08:07<dihedral>Goulp, EVERY server has a bug
08:08<dihedral>Rubidium, i've missed such a feature for ages ... i mean, custom error / kik / ban messages ^^
08:08<Goulp>dijedral, yeah i know. it's not perfect
08:12<@Rubidium>Luukland: people not having reported bugs doesn't mean there aren't bugs and it doesn't mean that no bugs will be reported in the future
08:13<Luukland>Of course, but I feel offended when someone says: [14:01] <dihedral> you make a custom server and then just have poor Luukland report them as bugs
08:13<Luukland>when there are no bugs
08:13<dihedral>then feel offended
08:13<dihedral>i dont give a <beep>
08:14<Goulp>Rubidium: That's it. When a feature is locked, there is chat message sent to the client who enque the command
08:15<Goulp>like terraform disabled, then a clear message is sent : terraforming is disable for this game
08:15<@Rubidium>and how are you going to handle e.g. autoreplace
08:16<@Rubidium>never had those people that like consistency complain that you should just disable the terraforming buttons if it's not allowed?
08:17<Goulp>autoreplace could be hanlded if vehicle are disabled from server and notified to clients
08:19<Goulp>if the terraform button can be disabled from server without patching client, it could be good, yes
08:20<@Rubidium>but why do you want to disable vehicles?
08:20<Luukland>The question that makes all other questions unneeded and useless
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08:20<Goulp>because we would like to reduce some basic features at the begining
08:20<@Rubidium>and why can't you use NewGRF for that? Makes it more consistent on the client side and means less modifications on the server's side
08:21<Goulp>yeap, if it can be done with newgrf, then we will think about ot
08:21<dihedral>Goulp, set max_planes to 0 for the first game years
08:23<Goulp>dihedral: because we dont want to disable ALL planes for all players.
08:27<Ammler>goulp, maybe use something like the basecost.grf, it is "hidden" on bananas
08:27<@Rubidium>ah well, just mess around as much as you want. Don't expect my support/blessings though
08:28<@Rubidium>and don't expect nice explanations why we don't handle bug reports if they're caused by one of your servers
08:28<Luukland>did you got ANY, even 1 bug report when Kurt's servers were running?
08:29<Goulp>well better lock vehicleid and also autoreplace...
08:29<Luukland>about Kurt's server it was
08:30<Luukland>well Rubidium? Did you got 1 or more bug reports during the period Kurts server was running, about kurts patched server?
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08:38<@Rubidium>as I said: past results aren't a measure for how well your stuff is going to fare
08:41<dihedral>Luukland, future preautions must not only be based on past experience
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09:34<Xaroth>hello Belugas
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09:55<blathijs>Now those are some parting words!
09:55<blathijs>Or, word.
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10:04<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17968 /extra/website/general/utils/ [Website] -Fix: ignore index.html/index.xml in the download page. They are only visible if you don't allow/have javascript in your browser.
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10:49<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17969 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use the toolbar switch button lowered state as a way to tell which of the configurations it's showing
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10:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17970 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Codechange: some coding style / improvement of constant usage
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11:16<Zuu>:-( why is the forums so lonely. I want new content to read and comment every time I go in there. :-p
11:16<Zuu>Maybe it is time to not visit it so often. :-p
11:17<@Rubidium>that's because the moderators are working too hard to get the spam out?
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11:19<Zuu>Maybe. Lets get back to cooding instead..
11:19<@Rubidium>or drawing!
11:20<Zuu>Me or you?
11:20<@Rubidium>fixing bugs would be welcome too
11:21*Belugas is doing just that, right now
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11:45<George3>547F2 [80][352*x] Vehicle array
11:45<George3>1A W The X location
11:45<George3>1C W The Y location
11:45<George3>1E B The Z location (altitude)
11:45<George3>26 W XY index of the vehicle's locationWhat is the right way to get Vehicle's loction incide a tile (16x16)
11:45<SmatZ>@seen z-matrix
11:45<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: z-matrix was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 2 days, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <z-MaTRiX> hi:)
11:45-!-George3 is now known as George
11:48<@Rubidium>the low nibble of the first two?
11:49<George>It's in TTDpatch
11:49<George>How does it work in OTTD?
11:49<George>Bexcause of the large maps?
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>what rubidium's saying is: (1A & 0x0F, 1C & 0x0F)
11:49<@Rubidium>the same
11:50<George>thank you
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>the larger maps only affect the higher bits
11:51<George>And would it be hard to make 4x (6x) vars ?
11:52<George>It would be easier than calculate using 1A and 1C
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13:29<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17971 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt table/sprites.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the code of the toolbar more uniform; give the switch bar a tooltip and unify the naming of sprites.
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13:34<Muxy>hum nice ban list
13:35<Luukland>very impressive
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r17972 /trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin
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14:05<dihedral>can nasal understand getprop(..) ? "down" : "up";
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15:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r17973 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp:
15:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix: 'save' toolbar button didn't change when clicking it
15:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix: wrong widgets (e.g. finances and company) could be visually disabled, based on the state of the zoom in/out buttons. However, they were still clickable
15:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make the main toolbar a nested window
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16:25<SmatZ>hello HackaLittleBit
16:25<TrueBrain>SmatZ! You left! :'(
16:26<HackaLittleBit>hey SmatZ
16:26<TrueBrain>I was all scared last night!
16:26<SmatZ>TrueBrain: what happened?
16:26<TrueBrain>dunno! You left! :(
16:26<SmatZ>I think the BNC disconnected me before I went to bed
16:27<SmatZ>but I am here, alive and kicking! :-)
16:27<andythenorth>hmmm....public airports produces interesting discussions :)
16:28<HackaLittleBit>you went to bed early
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16:28<TrueBrain>SmatZ: pfew :)
16:29<_ln>you went to bed with another channel and left #openttd all alone
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16:31<Sacro>ooh i have wave invites
16:36<TrueBrain>get your board and go for it!
16:36<Luukland>do some nice tricks and score some points!
16:39<Sacro>HackaLittleBit: more signal stuff!
16:40<TrueBrain>on the waves?
16:40<TrueBrain>odd place for signals ..
16:40<Sacro>oh yes
16:40<Sacro>for boats
16:40<Sacro>and such
16:41<Zuu>aka light houses :-)
16:41<TrueBrain>you also have floating thingies which have red or green lights
16:41<TrueBrain>not light houses perse :)
16:41<Zuu>Yep, ah, those. Got one on a photo this summer.
16:42<TrueBrain>wow! That is very impressive; not many surface that time of year :p
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16:42<Zuu>From a ferry after sunset. Really nice view :-)
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16:48*Zuu is happy - found a forum post he has not yet read (but on a non-transportation forum)
16:48<TrueBrain>Zuu: start reading fed2k
16:49<TrueBrain>if I can use you as search function, that would be useful
16:49<Zuu>Or watching all the south park episodes. Found out yesterday that they have been put online by the maker, so you can legally watch all their episodes.
16:50<TrueBrain>yup; south park dudes understand Internet :)
16:50<Zuu>Though I'm a bit disapointed that they haven't included closed captions :-(
16:50<Zuu>But o well, emailed them and asked if the american version has that. :-)
16:52<Luukland>What you all cant do with spare time
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17:10*Rubidium ponders joining rick and lee
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17:14<@Belugas>and i ponder going home
17:14<SmatZ>bye bye Belugas
17:14<@Rubidium>night Belugas
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17:15<@Belugas>ho... i made a joke... if Rubidium pondered joining lee rick, he'd be making rimes :)
17:15<@Belugas>lee rick
17:15<@Belugas>yeah.. i'
17:15<@Belugas>m tired
17:15<@Belugas>night all :D
17:16<HackaLittleBit>see you belugas
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17:53<Terkhen>good night
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18:21<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:25<Prof_Frink>Both? All three.
18:28<Nite_Owl>like the me in the other channel typed - not everyone is everywhere (Prof_Frink being an exception)
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18:32<SmatZ> /amsg hello Nite_Owl
18:33<Nite_Owl>Hello SmatZ
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 05 00:00:58 2009