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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-09

---Logopened Mon Nov 09 00:00:50 2009
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02:31<Terkhen>good morning
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03:03<Pikka>good morning and custard
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04:28<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18026 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h): -Codechange: make a lookup table static that doesn't need to be 'exported'
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04:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18027 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: make some unneededly global variables static and remove some unused variables
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05:40<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18028 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: unglobalise some functions
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06:17<Lachie>g'day, could anyone tell me how I'd represent the word
06:18<Lachie>"D000" in cb23
06:18<@Rubidium>00 D0 ?
06:20<@Rubidium>hmm, probably you got to return 0
06:20<@Rubidium>because D000 is added in OpenTTD
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06:22<Lachie>so D000 has already been defined in OTTD?
06:23<Lachie>is there a list of which strings haven't been defined yet?
06:24<Lachie>more logically, which have been
06:26<Lachie>google is my friend
06:27<Lachie>actually no, it isn't
06:28<Noldo>that's sad
06:28<Lachie>indeed, I thought I'd made one for once in my life haha
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06:31<@Rubidium>Lachie: I wouldn't know; I'm not really a nfo expert
06:35<Lachie>fair enough
06:36<Lachie>I just peeked through the source code and there didn't appear to be any mention of an ID for any of the strings
06:36<Lachie>though perhaps I'm doing it wrong
06:36<Lachie>numerical ID*
06:42<Lachie>who would be a good person to ask about it?
06:42<@Rubidium>frosch or DaleStan I'd say
06:51<Lachie>actually noticing that nforenum appears to change "00 D0" to "00 FF"
06:51<@petern>when i right click in a viewport it moves by whatever the last mouse movement was
06:52<@petern>cos delta.x/y are not reset to zero after a movement event
06:52<@petern>the win32 driver explicitly resets these after the gameloop is called
06:52<@petern>but not so for sdl or other drivers
06:52<Lachie>I'll try encoding it directly from an nfo and see what pops up
06:55<Lachie>it was an issue with my makefile as opposed to a problem with the nfo it seems
07:02<Lachie>however it hasn't made the additional text show up
07:02<Lachie>I'll try some more tomorrow
07:02<Lachie>thanks for your help Rubidium
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07:10<MyCatVerbs>petern: That is a pretty nifty bug. :)
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07:20<@Rubidium>petern: so it needs to be reset at the end of gameloop instead of in the video driver?
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07:27<@petern>Rubidium, i don't know
07:27<@petern>Rubidium, the mouse fix part of the video driver uses delta.x + dx though
07:27<@petern>which suggests it shouldn't be reset
07:28<@petern>(but then scrolling wouldn't work right on win32)
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07:42<@Rubidium>I got the feeling that should be zeroed after each mouseloop, i.e. each time it's used
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08:04<@petern>mmm, so what's the cursor.x += dx bit about then?
08:04<@petern>er, delta.x
08:04<@petern>should then "delta.x = dx" work just as well?
08:06<@Rubidium>I guess so
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08:10<@Rubidium>r7157 is the 'culprit': it changed the behaviour of handling mouse stuff from once a tick to once a tick and once a mouse event
08:11<@Rubidium>as such summing isn't needed anymore since r7157
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09:44<StarLionIsaac>when did the toolbar get nested... and can we have the spaces on it back?
09:46<@petern>Rubidium, wait... that's 2 years ago... hah
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09:49<andythenorth>oh wonderful. A 'post all your suggestions here' thread in the graphics forum
09:50<@petern>StarLionIsaac, yeah, that's ugly
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09:54<@petern>there's code to make spaces
09:54<@petern>but the spacer is 0, 0
09:54<@petern>or something
09:55<@petern>definately something, i don't understand the widgets enough to know :)
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10:16<CIA-4>OpenTTD: glx * r18029 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h): -Fix (r18028): AppendPathSeparator() should stay global
10:29<StarLionIsaac>question: besides lack of graphics, what stops us having diagonal stations?
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10:33<@Rubidium>code, possible newgrf breakage, ...
10:34<StarLionIsaac>why newgrf breakage? if a station-set doesn't define any graphics specifically for diagonals, then it doesn't have them, no problem I see there
10:34<@Rubidium>ghehe... people are complaining about the windows/widgets getting more consistent spacing
10:34<StarLionIsaac>unless it tries to use them when there aren't any
10:34<StarLionIsaac>because it's ugly without the spaces on the toolbar, that's why
10:34<@Rubidium>StarLionIsaac: was more thinking about trains that might be doing something special for station tiles
10:35<@Rubidium>the spaces are still there, they're a bit smaller though
10:35<StarLionIsaac>1/2 space per tile for a diagonal, I know, it'd just mean making them a bit longer... take a bit more space though
10:35<StarLionIsaac>I just got to thinking, if we have the possibility for diag airstrips in newgrf airports try 2, why not stations as well
10:35<@Rubidium>or are you using OGFX? In that case their sprites are probably bigger
10:36<StarLionIsaac>well, I was planning on starting a little project, using OGFX as a base, to make some diagonal tiles
10:36<@Rubidium>and OpenTTD scales to the sprites instead of forcing the sprites to be a specific size
10:36<StarLionIsaac>until there's support for usable diagonal stations, they might as well be non-track
10:37<StarLionIsaac>I guess if it's unlikely there'll be support for it, then non-track is all they'll be
10:37<@Rubidium> <- the spaces are still there
10:40<StarLionIsaac>in which revision? I'm using a modified r17986, and they're not there - none of the patches affect the toolbar though
10:40<StarLionIsaac>a few grfs do, but I didn't think that would affect it
10:40*StarLionIsaac needs to update his openttd game again
10:40<@Rubidium>StarLionIsaac: but are you using OGFX?
10:40<StarLionIsaac>yes, I am
10:41<@Rubidium>that doesn't have the spacing because their toolbar buttons are bigger and the nested widgets scale to those larger buttons
10:41<@Rubidium>so for OGFX the fix is getting smaller button images
10:41<StarLionIsaac>well, that explains it...
10:46<@petern>ah, i am using ogfx, so...
10:46<@petern>ogfx is buggy? shock!
10:47<@Belugas>ho... *****only***** 64 industry type... fuckhead
10:47<@petern>Rubidium, hmm, the buttons are still too large even with the originals
10:48<@petern>sometimes it's not about consistency, it's what looks right ;)
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10:49<@Rubidium>you mean that adding the fast forward and making the space smaller made it look better but making it slightly smaller again makes it look worse?
10:50<@Rubidium>it looks different from what it looked, but does that make it look worse?
10:51<@Rubidium>looks like you didn't even notice that you were using ogfx at first
10:51<@Rubidium>which is according to lots of people "worse"
10:51<StarLionIsaac>bleh, I use it that much I can't stand the old base graphics anymore myself... but I would prefer the spaces back on the toolbar again
10:51<@Rubidium>it's just that you need to get accustomed with the fact that it doesn't look like it did look
10:52<@Rubidium>StarLionIsaac: file a bug report at OGFX that their sprites are too big
10:52<@petern>pfft, game options still looks wrong with the stickie outie drop downs :p
10:57<StarLionIsaac>I'm beginning to hate the auto-image preview in nautilus
10:57<StarLionIsaac>it locks up the entire computer to preview the OGFX pcx files
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11:05<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18030 /trunk/src/ (smallmap_gui.cpp video/win32_v.cpp window.cpp): -Fix: screen jumped a bit for at least SDL and Allegro when right-click-dragging
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11:07<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18031 /trunk/src/video/ (allegro_v.cpp sdl_v.cpp win32_v.cpp): -Codechange: since basically r7157 adding up 'all' mouse movement isn't needed anymore because after each even that movement is handled and the counter is reset. As such simply assigning instead of adding works.
11:16<@petern>i assume my change in 18001 could apply to other video drivers as well, but i don't have any ability to test them
11:16<Ammler>[16:40] <Rubidium> so for OGFX the fix is getting smaller button images <-- isn't there just no spacer image?
11:16<@petern>Ammler, the spacer is there, it's not an image
11:16<@petern>the ogfx button sprites are just too large
11:17<@petern>(you'd assume they'd use images the same size...)
11:18<@Rubidium>well, it proves that their "chinese wall" for seperating specification and actual implementation failed *and* that they didn't copy the original sprites
11:19<@Rubidium>Ammler: <- proves there is a spacer widget
11:20<@Rubidium>Ammler: and you'll see the spacers in the sceneditor
11:21<Ammler>if I compere the toolsets, the icons have smae size, just ogfx has no spacer
11:22<@Rubidium>one of the sprites has to be slightly bigger
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11:27<Ammler>indeed, the bigger icons are there
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11:28<Ammler>so you removed the support for individual sprite size?
11:29<welshdragon>damn 9 ca trains using a 4 tile platform :(
11:30<Ammler>0.7.3 has spaces
11:30<Ammler>(in ogfx)
11:31<@petern>Ammler, it's nestedwidgetorized
11:31<@petern>therefore the button size comes from the image
11:31<Ammler>so ogfx needs this spacer image?
11:32<Ammler>well, how to fix it?
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11:34<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r18032 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Codechange: add one const
11:35<frosch123>static const int ONE = 1;
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>but the SIX*NINE thing doesn't work properly that way...
11:42<@petern>Rubidium, the ogfx sprites are 20x20 afaics
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12:11<@Rubidium>hmm... why does IMGBTN_2 have more spacing?
12:14<@Rubidium>guess that's because the primary users of IMGBTN_2 were using such odd spacing or so
12:21<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18033 /trunk/src/ (toolbar_gui.cpp widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make the padding for IMGBTN_2 the same as for IMGBTN; the image doesn't move, so the extra space at the right and bottom aren't needed
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12:47<@Belugas>installing .net 3.5 ... ouch
12:48<Sacro>sp1 is out for that
12:48<@Belugas>only installed 1.1
12:48<@Belugas>or was not installed...
12:49<@Belugas>236 meg of stuuf to work on
12:49<@Belugas>meanwhile... NEON NIGHTS!
12:49<@Belugas>Black Sabbath, of course :)
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13:41<ptr_>so, uhm
13:41<ptr_>what's the status of AI during multiplay?
13:41<frosch123>since 0.7
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13:42<ptr_>I downloadad AdmiralAI, but they're not doing anything :/
13:43<StarLionIsaac>check the AI debug and find out what it's up to
13:44<+glx>only server can run AI
13:44<ptr_>I'm running it on my dedicated server
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18034 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu
13:47<planetmaker>ptr_, downloading an AI is not sufficient in order to activate it.
13:48<ptr_>it shows up as a company
13:48<ptr_>but it seems pretty passive
13:48<planetmaker>well. Is it admiralAI or the dummy AI?
13:48<ptr_>it's admiral ai
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13:52<ptr_>oh, it's built a train station
13:52<ptr_>but... nothing more, heh
13:53<planetmaker>you ptr_ , patience you must learn.
13:53<ptr_>a lot of stations actually
13:53<ptr_>haha. I see
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14:07<ptr_>the AI is really slow.
14:08<StarLionIsaac>that reminds me. Does the AI build speed setting chosen in Difficulty Settings affect NoAI's? It never seems to
14:08<@Rubidium>yes it does
14:08<@Rubidium>unless AIs choose to sleep a month between 'commands'
14:10<ptr_>which setting is that?
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14:13<ptr_>difficulty.competitor_speed I guess?
14:14<@Rubidium>you could increase the number of ops for AIs; mean that it's pathfinding goes a bit faster, but it won't actually build it faster (once it starts building ofcourse)
14:15<ptr_>they are going bankrupt
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14:16<@Rubidium>let me guess, few towns, few industries, mountainous, high building costs or so?
14:17<ptr_>many towns and industries actually, but they insist on spamming the map with train stations
14:17<ptr_>and it's a pretty big map
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14:20<Luukland>Good evening, I have small question :)
14:20<Luukland>could it be possible to store client ip in an usigned integer ?
14:21<Xaroth>depends, ipv6 is just 4 bytes, ipv6 is somewhat bigger..
14:21<Xaroth>er, first ipv6 = ipv4
14:21<@Rubidium>yeah, it would fit in a uint128
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14:29<ptr_>you start an ai-script by using "start_ai 'ai script name'" right?
14:34<_ln>english only:
14:34<Paul2>stupid huh?
14:34<Paul2>only in overly PC britain
14:35<Prof_Frink>PC PCs.
14:36<Sacro>love the metro
14:36<Noldo>_ln: my wife and I don't agree on the meaning of 'iltapäivä'
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15:02<Ruudjah>@seen Luukland
15:02<@DorpsGek>Ruudjah: Luukland was last seen in #openttd 41 minutes and 51 seconds ago: <Luukland> could it be possible to store client ip in an usigned integer ?
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15:59<TrueBrain>reminder to self: do not use C#
16:01<@Rubidium>looks like bad luck (1 in (2**32)**24?) or very bad entropy
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16:04<@Belugas>TrueBrain : use a Cm7, it sounds way better!
16:04<@petern>it works fine on another machine
16:04<@petern>same OS
16:05<@petern>(debian lenny)
16:05<TrueBrain>Belugas: ghehe :) Yeah, Cm7 sounds better, you are right :)
16:06<TrueBrain>C# and Linux .. now I am confused
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16:07*Rubidium wonders whether C# is actually allowed on planes
16:07<guru3_>OK... is there a particular reason why when I launch OpenTTD the colors are all messed up and there are random sqares of graphics shifting all over the place?
16:07-!-guru3_ is now known as guru3
16:07<TrueBrain>try not using the debug blitter :)
16:07<guru3>All I did was emerge it...
16:09<@Rubidium>what version did it emerge? 0.6.3?
16:09<guru3>i think
16:10<guru3>Running emerge -av openttd to find out what flags it used...
16:10<guru3>(Which will take a bit of time, this is a P1...)
16:10<@Rubidium>hmm, so no PPC, so 0.7.3 is a bit more plausible
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16:11<@Rubidium>oh, they just marked it 'stable' on x86
16:11<TrueBrain>why use Gentoo on a P1? :s
16:11<guru3>because i want the configurability
16:11<guru3>once it's setup i dont have to change anything
16:12<TrueBrain>get some host to do the compiling for you :)
16:12<guru3>ive got that setup
16:12<@petern>TrueBrain, well, i get a single exe that's cross platform ;)
16:12<@petern>so quick, let's port openttd to c#!
16:12<DOTAAngel>hi guys...any recommendation on the IDE for Squirrel programming? Eclipse or NetBeans?
16:12<TrueBrain>'cross' platform, it only fails for certain systems :p
16:12<guru3>would I maybe have more luck starting with -b 8bb-simple ?
16:13<TrueBrain>guru3: -b 8bpp-optimized, I would suggest
16:13<TrueBrain>but 8bpp-debug is silly, yes
16:13<guru3>well i dont know what it's trying to use by default
16:14<guru3>is it something that can be set in the .cfg file?
16:14<@petern>actually 8bpp-debug doesn't have random squares of grpahics
16:14<@petern>so it's something else
16:14<TrueBrain>try under 'blitter' ;)
16:14<TrueBrain>petern: depends on your definition of 'random' I guess :)
16:14<@petern>and 'square'
16:14<guru3>well when something is moving
16:14<TrueBrain>if the square is a rectangle and the randomness is very predictable, it is about right :)
16:15<guru3>more than one moves and it's distorted
16:15<guru3>things get half over layed
16:15<guru3>what blitter does it try to use by default?
16:15<TrueBrain>depends on your OS ;) But 8bpp-optimized should be fine ;)
16:15<TrueBrain>optmized .. optimised .. tomato tomato
16:15<guru3>starting with -b 8bb-optimized
16:16<guru3>32mb of ram is so not enough -_-
16:17<TrueBrain>oeh, petern spelled it wrong! That is a first time :s Are you sure you are petern? Can we please verify this? /me hugs petern :)
16:17<TrueBrain>good night all
16:17<guru3>good night
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16:18<guru3>will it work...
16:18<guru3>suspense is killing me
16:19<guru3>the midi has started... (cool that works)
16:19<guru3>and nope it's still all messed up
16:19<guru3>there are two of the same thing side by side at the start
16:19<guru3>then it all starts to move around
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16:20<@petern>how about a screenshot? heh
16:21<guru3>i don't have a screenshot thing setup
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16:21<guru3>i will take a photo next time though
16:21<guru3>trying with the simple blitter
16:24<guru3>got the photo
16:24<guru3>(incidentally, 8bpp-simple is also messed up)
16:24<@petern>although... why bother using such an ancient machine :s
16:24<guru3>because it's transportable
16:24<guru3>weights < 1kg
16:24<guru3>toshiba libretto
16:25<@Rubidium>a mobile home is transportable too, I wouldn't want to live in one though
16:26<guru3>popping in memory card
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16:29<guru3> is how it starts and then it heads down towards
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16:29<@Rubidium>does -b 32bpp-simple help?
16:30<guru3>haven't tried that one yet
16:30<guru3>and just found out it's not 0.7.3 it's 0.7.2
16:32<guru3>oh my X seems to have crashed
16:32<guru3>(not openttd related)
16:34<guru3>or maybe not
16:34<guru3>i switched vts -_-
16:36<@Rubidium>maybe it has something to do with the colour depth
16:36<guru3>16 bit
16:37<guru3>neomagic and the kdrive useflag for xorg-server
16:37<@Rubidium>does it happen when you run it windowed?
16:37<guru3>it messes up the entire screen then
16:37<guru3>or flips the colors of everything
16:37<guru3>but only the window ends up drawn wrong
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16:38<@Rubidium> <- might be related
16:38<guru3>32bppp works!
16:39<guru3>although it's currently going in slow motion
16:39<guru3>so nothing's moved yet...
16:40*Rubidium blames SDL
16:40<guru3>nothing's moving yet... lots of swapping going on
16:40<guru3>openttd is using 25% of memory
16:41<guru3>8 mb :<
16:41<Lakie>That all?
16:41<guru3>no 32mb on the system
16:42<guru3>8mb is what openttd is using
16:42<guru3>but a train moved while i wasn't looking!
16:42<Xaroth>32mb ram!?!?
16:42<guru3>ooo i saw something move that time!
16:42<guru3>yes, 32mb ram
16:42<Xaroth>what kind of os are you running, windows 3.11?
16:42<guru3>gentoo 10.0
16:42<+glx>Xaroth: win95 runs on 8MB ;)
16:42<@Rubidium>you might want to recompile with -Os and reduce the sprite cache a bit
16:43<guru3>make.conf specifies -Os
16:43<guru3>CFLAGS="-Os -march=i586 -mmmx -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe"
16:43<guru3>would using 32bpp-optimized be better or worse?
16:43<+glx>will require 4 times more memory
16:44<guru3>Ok, 32bpp simple it is
16:44<+glx>still :)
16:44<guru3>well 8bpp doesn't work
16:44<+glx>8bpp vs 32bpp
16:44<guru3>causes a screwed up screen
16:44<guru3>(see earlier links)
16:44<+glx>then try 32bpp-optimized
16:45<@Rubidium>file a sdl bug :)
16:45<guru3>what's a good cache size for the sprites? that 4 in mb?
16:46<@Rubidium>the more the better, but try 1 or 2
16:46<SmatZ>the more the better
16:46<@Rubidium>it's in MiBs
16:46<guru3>i've put it to 2, now to killall openttd, wait for other processes to clear up so it stops swapping and then try again
16:49<guru3>right, here we go...
16:49<guru3>there goes the midi
16:50<guru3>and oops it overwote my .cfg changes, take 2...
16:52<SmatZ>nah, nothing :)
16:52<SmatZ>I thought 4 is minimum
16:52<SmatZ>but minimum is 1
16:52<guru3>it's going a bit faster... but not quite full speed
16:52<guru3>34% memory usage still
16:53<SmatZ>not bad
16:53<SmatZ>try switching to OPF pathfinders
16:53<guru3>it's just the menu -_-
16:53<SmatZ>NTP for trains, OPF for other
16:53<guru3>i can't move the mouse smoothely
16:53<SmatZ>maybe you will need to exit the game
16:54<guru3>which is funny cause with the 8bpp i could
16:54<SmatZ>small spritecache is killer for 32bpp blitter
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16:55<guru3>that maglev just went close to full speed!
16:55<guru3>oo damn for a minute the mouse moved
16:56<guru3>time to try quitting some stuff and see if it gets better
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17:00<guru3>it's sort of smoothe!
17:00<guru3>i could at least change the pathfinder settings
17:01<Paul2>I'm generating new maps. It's only generating factories and tourist centres :S
17:01<Paul2>this is the second one I've done
17:01<guru3>64 x 64 map and i get one island with one town
17:02<guru3>but it is perfectly smoothe
17:02<guru3>except for scrolling
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17:02<guru3>i do have a coal mine and power station though
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>try all ECS vectors on a small map :p
17:05<guru3>Citizens celebrate... Road Vehicule 1 arrives at Dretston Mines!"
17:05<guru3>Citizens celebrate... arrival at Dretston Woods!
17:05<guru3>hurrah 200 pounds!
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>you sound like you never played this game, guru3 ;)
17:06<guru3>i've never played openttd on a system with 32mb of ram before
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>TTO ran on 4MB
17:07<guru3>well ive played it on a system with 8
17:07<Paul2>this is wierd. Literally only factories. Which setting in new game controls the inustries?
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>Paul2: which industry sets do you have?
17:08<Paul2>'industry sets' ?
17:08<guru3>would running x in 8 bit color depth help at all?
17:12<guru3>well i'll be damned, it does
17:17<guru3> i think that's relavent
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>Paul2: when you say "tourist center", you have some industry sets active in newgrf settings
17:20<Paul2>I think so, I'm just learning about ECS stuff...didn't realise there was all this new stuff!
17:21<Paul2>I nomrally just play the standard stuff...I dont know what I have done to reset it all
17:22<Paul2>if I just remove all the newgrf stuff will I just play the original game?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, mostly
17:25<Paul2>ok cool
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19:01<Sacro>holy shit
19:01<Sacro>openttd is front page on reddit
19:01*Sacro UPVOTES
19:02<Sacro>they recommend getting to help with opensfx
19:04<Sacro>i concur
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19:17<FauxFaux>Unfortunately, the opensfx project is doomed, there exists no sound as annoying as the railway crossing noise in the original.
19:19<_ln>Sacro: how about hiring Michael Winslow?
19:21<Sacro>damn you fucking c#
19:21<Sacro>what part of binaryWriter.Write(bytes[0]); can you not get right
19:21<Sacro>if bytes[0] = 2
19:21<Sacro>then why the fuck are you putting 8 into my file
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19:23*Sacro is gonna cry soon
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 10 00:00:52 2009