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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-10

---Logopened Tue Nov 10 00:00:52 2009
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00:44<DOTAAngel>anyone alive?
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01:07<Pikka>mostly eddi
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01:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i'm mostly not alive either
01:40<Yatta>what version of ottd is used in network game ? I only get version missmatchs ones.
01:41<Eddi|zuHause>typically the latest stable, which is mentioned in the topic
01:41<Yatta>Oh. I tought I had it already. Silly me.
01:53<Yatta>There's really a great job done on OTTD. Imo somewhat lacks of gamedesign tough :x. But still very great.
01:53<Eddi|zuHause>if you have something slightly more specific than "it lacks XYZ", feel free to post at the forums
01:55<Yatta>Its nothing new, and quite subjective. Also, I already posted something about that, but more in the form of 'are there patches for ...'
01:56<Yatta>because I didnt find a patch database like the nice thing there is for AI/newgrfs/scenarios ...
01:56<Eddi|zuHause>pretty much all patches are in the patches forum
01:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that one
02:02<Yatta>I've seen it, but the forum isnt the most practical to use. There's 44 pages of it and the topic title doesnt give much info, and since its a development forum, you dont know which patches are in a 'playable' state.
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02:13<@petern>Sacro, binarywriter is encoded, isn't it?
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02:27<Eddi|zuHause>great timing ;)
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03:16<Pikka>that's torn it
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03:18<nonsensical>how do I make the font size bigger in the game?
03:20<planetmaker>nonsensical, edit your openttd.cfg and search for the three fonts in there
03:20<planetmaker>replace them by something you like
03:20<nonsensical>currently they're blank
03:20<nonsensical>is there a special format for them?
03:21<nonsensical>I tried increasing the small/medium/large font size listed there
03:21<nonsensical>but nothing happened
03:21<planetmaker>did you re-start openttd?
03:21<planetmaker>and not quit it, after you saved?
03:21<planetmaker>openttd re-writes its cfg upon exit
03:21<nonsensical>I'm guessing the font sizes are ignored if there's no font listed there
03:22<nonsensical>is there a special format for font names or anything?
03:22<planetmaker>might also be. Dunno which are nice for you and your system
03:22<planetmaker>it should be names
03:22<nonsensical>xp, 1600x1200
03:23<planetmaker>try any of the font names you have
03:23<planetmaker>I haven't played around with names in some time either.
03:23<nonsensical>arial seems to work, but the size is too big for the boxes so things get cut off
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03:25<nonsensical>well I guess that sorta works, thanks
03:26<nonsensical>can't make the small size any larger than 10, it's already running together
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03:50<@Rubidium>nonsensical: in trunk most windows will scale better to larger fonts
03:52<@Rubidium>(trunk being the main 'development' branch)
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04:00<nonsensical>I might try that
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04:33<@petern>oh does that all work now?
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04:44<@petern>the game options 'boxes' don't expand
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05:08<@Rubidium>petern: not all and not all as good as some, but lots of progress has been made
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06:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18035 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16909): one could remotely crash (assert) the server on certain commands
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11:22<@Rubidium>Sacro: he didn't die, so there's no reason to change any of the protocols regarding checking (especially) switches
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11:24<Sacro>Rubidium: course not :)
11:24<Sacro>no harm, no foul
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11:29<planetmaker>good evening
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11:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18036 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r17999): Always two they are.
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12:50<Eddi|zuHause>is there such a thing as an Obitwo?
12:56<frosch123>b - a = b - (a + 1) + 1
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>they are likely to cancel eachother out
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13:07<frosch123>well, you can live with the empire :) but if you kill one, you also have to take the other
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13:10<Paul2>Sacro: !!!!!
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13:17<Paul2>that you tube link
13:18<Paul2>after this as well
13:19<Sacro>don't they have a suicide pit?
13:21<Paul2>clearly not in boston
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13:21<Paul2>also looks like she touches the third rail as well, so yeah. Lucky lady.
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13:22<Sacro>might be that someone was monitoring the cctv and discharged it
13:23<Paul2>well yeah the red squares are the image detection on the CCTV so it can do automatic stuff. Don't know quite what they have there.
13:24<Paul2>our system does things like detect 'dodgy' or suspicious acitivty and alert operators.
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13:34<MyCatVerbs>Sacro: thank God! Technology has finally freed us from the incredible burden of having to hire literate people!
13:36<Sacro>MyCatVerbs: it proves Muphry's Law
13:36<Sacro>it also has dangling modifiers
13:37<MyCatVerbs>Forgive me, but I am incapable of discerning whether you did that on purpose.
13:37<MyCatVerbs>"Muphry's Law".
13:37<MyCatVerbs>The 'r' is close to where it needs to be, but not quite there.
13:38<MyCatVerbs>AHAHAHAHAH. I stand corrected.
13:38<MyCatVerbs>Thank you, Sacro. :)
13:38<MyCatVerbs>(So the joke is deliberate. Of course. ^^)
13:38<Sacro>basically if you do anything criticising spelling/grammer, that will contain spelling/grammer mistakes
13:38<Sacro>check the last sentence on their first paragraph
13:39<MyCatVerbs>Yes, I can read. :P
13:39<MyCatVerbs>Sometimes I even elect to actually do so soon enough. ^^
13:40<Sacro>also the 3rd paragraph misses an 'a' in it
13:42<MyCatVerbs>Er, where? I can't see it. Please quote the offending sentence?
13:42<Sacro>extra comma there...
13:42<Sacro>With WhiteSmoke writing technology, you can create professional quality copy for your web site and marketing needs from your own texts.
13:43<Sacro>that sounds decidedly un English
13:43<MyCatVerbs>Oh! Sorry, I thought you were referring to the wikipedia article on Muphry's Law.
13:43<Sacro>oh no :)
13:43<Sacro>i'm just proofreading their website
13:43<MyCatVerbs>Yeah, it sounds suspiciously like it was translated from Chinese.
13:44<Sacro>Also, i thought it was frowned upon to start a sentence with 'With'
13:44<Sacro>used 'on to' instead of 'into'
13:44<Sacro>this is most amusing
13:45*Sacro makes note to not purchase or recommend their product
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13:45<MyCatVerbs>Forbidding the starting of sentences with the word "with" sounds unnecessarily fussy to me.
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18037 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt indonesian.txt polish.txt traditional_chinese.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: czech - 3 changes by SmatZ
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: polish - 4 changes by silver_777
13:45<Sacro>well, usually you can do s/. W/, w/
13:47<MyCatVerbs>"I like hamsters. With the aid of my trusty hamster-stabbed, it takes me almost no time at all to turn one into dinner."
13:47<MyCatVerbs>Your simplistic tranformation will not re-render the above into a single working sentence. :)
13:47<MyCatVerbs>s/hamster-stabbed/hamster-stabber/ (I promise that that was purely a typo)
13:48<MyCatVerbs>(Alas, fcuk Muphry.)
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13:49<Eddi|zuHause><_ln> <--- that title reads like "we couldn't fire him for racist remarks, so we mob him until he goes by himself...
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: afair they just took a section from his controls, so they basically degraded him
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>the "news" is a month old, after all
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14:05<_ln>did they argue his claims are false?
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14:09<frosch123>you can prove every statistical thing to be true or false to your liking
14:11<Prof_Frink>74% of statistics are made up on the spot.
14:11<Alberth>the same holds for 'scientific research' results
14:12<frosch123>80% are against global warming
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15:40<@petern> (nsfw)
15:41<Noldo>is it someone we know?
15:46<Sacro>that's orudge
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's photoshopped! you can tell by the pixels!
15:46<Sacro>it's shaved
15:46<Sacro>i can tell be the lack of hair
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: it's definitely neither gandalf nor melissa joan heart, so it must be oruge... flawless logic!
15:47<@Rubidium>yes... he hasn't denied it so it must be true!
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15:52<TrueBrain>why did I open that URL :(
15:52<blathijs>petern: Are you just pasting porn pictures here, or is there actually a good article in that russian crap?
15:53<blathijs>TrueBrain: Because NSFW isn't usually _this_ explicit? :-)
15:53<@Rubidium>well, apparantly it's okay in this channel...
15:53<@petern>it was art or something
15:53<TrueBrain>well, I just blacklisted URLs coming from petern, most likely a better solution ;)
15:55<blathijs>I have to admit, the initial paragraph does become somewhat like a poem when you pull it through Goolge translate
15:56<blathijs>But I don't think that was intended :-)
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16:12<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see under which jurisdiction this can be classified as "porn"
16:14<frosch123>"Maybe I have time this weekend. Then I will start to learn to draw sprites"
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>everybody must start somewhen
16:15<planetmaker>maybe maybe... maybe someone wants to help finish open[g|s]fx?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>each weekend is as good as the next one :p
16:15<planetmaker>also true :-)
16:15<@petern>hey should i do anything with railtypes
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, trash it and rewrite it from scratch ;)
16:16<planetmaker>petern, *should* is probably the wrong wording. But surely there's a number of people who'd like to see something like that :-)
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>i have the impression hardly any development has taken place recently, except nestifying widgets
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>one could also say "petern! newrailtypes!"
16:17<planetmaker>IPv6... DistantJoin... OpenSFX support...
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>those are probably nice, but not the killerfeature-kind such as YAPP
16:18<planetmaker>:-) True from a player's perspective
16:18<_ln>i agree that those photos are not "porn"
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>and every previous release had at least one such revolutionary feature
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16:20<Eddi|zuHause>current candidates are cargod*st, railtypes and newgrf airports, but neither of these are in a shape likely to be finished within the next half year
16:20<@petern>added 3387 changesets with 18493 changes to 1109 files
16:20<@petern>oh dear
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>3000 revisions?
16:21<Alberth>enough to read tonight :)
16:21<@petern>can't be right
16:21<@petern>last merge was 17296
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause>that's more like 800 revisions. where do the other 2500 changesets come from?
16:22<frosch123>so about 4 to 5 changes files per revision?
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>or does it count every file per revision?
16:22<@petern>oh, no
16:23<@petern>i keep a local trunk and a local railtype
16:23<@petern>the trunk was indeed out of date
16:23<@petern>pulling from that gives 710 changes
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>aha. so they're bogus changesets you want to sell us ;)
16:23<@petern>cheap at twice the price
16:24<@petern>ok... hg merge has fired up meld... never seen this before :s
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i understand why you came back here, but what made you leave in the first place?
16:26<@petern>why did i come back?
16:27<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, don't forget infrastructure sharing ;-)
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>because you couldn't live without us, obviously...
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i kinda have my doubts that feature will get anywhere near trunk...
16:29<planetmaker>dunno... why not?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>i mean it's more like a gut feeling, i'm not in a position to decide that ;)
16:29<_ln>do you think darkvater would approve of such feature?
16:30<planetmaker>I guess what he thinks is mostly irrelevant nowadays. Besides I have no basis to judge how he might decide
16:31<_ln>a mutiny
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of mutiny is it when the captain's long gone?
16:34<_ln>a bloodless one
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16:55<ZxBiohazardZx>can someone answer my n00bish question?
16:55<ZxBiohazardZx>how do i build a clean trunk again (if i already have a crappy patched trunk)
16:55<ZxBiohazardZx>just delete all and redownload?
16:55<ZxBiohazardZx>or is there a faster way
16:56<Hirundo>What vcs are you using?
16:57<+glx>svn revert -R .
16:57<ZxBiohazardZx>in tortoise svn?XD
16:57<ZxBiohazardZx>or do i really have to go to my mingw for that as well:P
16:57<ZxBiohazardZx>ill just remove+redownload
16:58<ZxBiohazardZx>XD thx anyway
16:58<+glx>tortoise should be able to revert all too
16:58<ZxBiohazardZx>yeah i know, just forgot the command/button
16:58<ZxBiohazardZx>does Infra_share work with latest revision?
16:59<ZxBiohazardZx>or dont you know XD
16:59<ZxBiohazardZx>lol i just tried to "update" without removing patches
17:00<ZxBiohazardZx>and the languages/english.txt is conflicted XD lol
17:00<ZxBiohazardZx>but im cool
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17:01<Hirundo>IS should *probably* work with current trunk as it has been synced only a couple of days ago
17:02<ZxBiohazardZx>ill give it a go
17:02<@petern>hurr, railtypes updated :D
17:02<@Rubidium>lets start a pool about whether it compiles or not
17:02<ZxBiohazardZx>@ Rubidium 5$ it wont
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17:04<@petern>or IS? hehe
17:04<ZxBiohazardZx>hehe ill even bet $5 on both XD
17:05<ZxBiohazardZx>cause im n00b in compiling (oh well i can still do it, with my handy guide4idiots )
17:05<ZxBiohazardZx>but what did you do with railtypes?
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17:06<ZxBiohazardZx>kk i got clean trunk downloaded
17:06<ZxBiohazardZx>now lemmy find my patches id like to have
17:06<ZxBiohazardZx>and see how they work out on latest revision
17:09<ZxBiohazardZx>and another: improved brakedowns
17:09<ZxBiohazardZx>how can i "check" compatibilities lolz
17:09<ZxBiohazardZx>apart from backup, patch, test, and repeat thatXD
17:10<ZxBiohazardZx>zomg fail i just downloaded IS but its like complete game? not just a simple patch thingy?
17:11<ZxBiohazardZx>ah lol im blind XD downloaded wrong linky:P
17:14*Hirundo pipes IRC channel to ZxBiohazardZx's diary
17:14<ZxBiohazardZx>trying to get Infra sharing to work
17:14<ZxBiohazardZx>but im complete idiot XD
17:14<ZxBiohazardZx>i only see IS_beta3 .diff
17:14<ZxBiohazardZx>no beta 4 or 5?
17:15<Xaroth>you running windows?
17:15<Hirundo>Where are you looking?
17:15<Xaroth>o/ Belugas
17:15*Belugas runs home
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>yes im using windows
17:15<@Rubidium>night Belugas, happy running
17:15<@Belugas>thanks :)
17:15<Xaroth>ZxBiohazardZx: surely there are official builds?
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>i had the following link
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>im on this site
17:15<ZxBiohazardZx>that offers some links:P
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>that had 2 diffs
17:16*Xaroth nudges planetmaker
17:16<ZxBiohazardZx>and i also had a link to beta 5, but that wasnt a .diff file (or am i wrong there)?
17:16<Hirundo>If you read the first post *thoroughly*, you fill find the answer
17:17<Xaroth> has that link
17:17<Xaroth>( Release bundles of binaries, Doxygen and sources can be downloaded from here. )
17:17<ZxBiohazardZx> would be the site with releases
17:17<Xaroth>or better yet:
17:18<ZxBiohazardZx>but im looking for the .diff rather then a complete executable (because im trying to see if i can have some other patches as well) (yes i know that its hard to do that but anyway)
17:19<@Rubidium> ?
17:19*Xaroth ^5 Rubidium
17:20<planetmaker>ZxBiohazardZx: it might be easier to clone the repo and just try to apply any patch there...
17:22<ZxBiohazardZx>explain that, im complete idiot on thisXD
17:22<Xaroth>then you'll have fun trying to apply other patches ^^
17:22<ZxBiohazardZx>so i download IS2.0-beta5
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>the "release"
17:23<ZxBiohazardZx>bad connection lol
17:24<ZxBiohazardZx>oh well all patches i run now are: signals on tunnel/bridges and i had another one XD
17:25<ZxBiohazardZx>not important anway
17:25<ZxBiohazardZx>so planetmaker you suggest i just take a release or?
17:26<ZxBiohazardZx>didnt quite get your comment
17:26<planetmaker>I suggest you get the source repository (e.g. the whole patched OpenTTD infrastructure sharing branch) instead of "plain" trunk OpenTTD and then only applying the patch
17:27<ZxBiohazardZx>hmmz alright, 1 sec
17:27<ZxBiohazardZx>let me read that link:P
17:27<planetmaker>you'll need mercurial as opposed to subversion, though...
17:27<+glx>or a real patch tool
17:27<ZxBiohazardZx>awww why do you guys all use a different program for the same thing XD?
17:28<Xaroth>different purposes :)
17:28<ZxBiohazardZx>i have tortoise SVN and MINGW as explained on wiki
17:28<ZxBiohazardZx>but alright:P
17:28<+glx>because hg is better for this king of things
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17:29<ZxBiohazardZx>anyway ill run the walkthrough real quick:P
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17:30<ZxBiohazardZx>great 1 million download links for tortoise_hg?
17:31<ZxBiohazardZx>im so not gonna download every single file up there:S wtf
17:31<Xaroth>you are! :P
17:33<ZxBiohazardZx>@Xaroth you SURE i need all?
17:33<ZxBiohazardZx>they all seem different versions of same thing to me:S
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17:38<Xaroth>ZxBiohazardZx: it was just a guess :)
17:38<ZxBiohazardZx>my inet sucks, stupid wifi is to weak, brb
17:39<ZxBiohazardZx>i wont but ill down this tomorrow
17:39<ZxBiohazardZx>thx anyway
17:39<Xaroth>I've not looked at openttd for a while.. too busy with dune :/
17:39<ZxBiohazardZx>as in Dune I II or 2000?
17:39<Xaroth>google opendune
17:39<Xaroth>you'll find it
17:39<ZxBiohazardZx>i used to play dune2000 (dune II with way better gfx imo)
17:39<ZxBiohazardZx>but yeah good game;)
17:40<ZxBiohazardZx>and i will
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18:45<nonsensical>is there a way to rotate the map?
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18:50<Xaroth>nonsensical: no
18:50<Xaroth>I'd recommend turning around your monitor and looking at it from that angle if you want to rotate :)
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20:24<tiaz>I'm on 0.7.3 and when I load a saved game with a new AI all of them error out with:
20:25<tiaz>'Your script made an error: the index `rawin` does not exist'
20:25<tiaz>I tried redownloading the content but that didn't seem to do anything and I can't find anything in google. is this a known thing?
20:31<+glx>broken AI
20:36<tiaz>it did fine until the save/restore
20:36<tiaz>I guess I'll try starting a new one and see if it lives
20:37<+glx>maybe only saving/loading is broken in the AI, anyway it's a broken AI :)
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21:50<zil>Hi, if anyone can help me just have a couple of questions - I usually just plan biggest routes possible, but reading the site has got me a little confused -
21:50<zil>I do not understand the calulations for "late delivery" as long as you go fast, does the distance outweigh the penalty?
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>some cargo (like food) must be delivered within a given time
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>so with slow vehicles, you can make losses if you go too far
21:54<Eddi|zuHause>the faster the vehicles get, the further you can bring them
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21:58<Eddi|zuHause>the "problem" is that maximum of -88%, so if you are _really extremely late_, the price goes up again for the distance
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>quick calculation says for passengers that is 30 years ;)
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22:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure how to interpret this data correctly... my calculation says for passengers you make no money after 137 days...
22:12<SirSquidness>hrm, so all those inter-continental rail routes I've done aren't actually that profitable afterall.
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>but there are some limits in place that you don't actually make "no money"
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>so after these 137 days, it seems to grow linearily with distance
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>which might make the routes profital again
22:15<zil>it makes sense - I am playing on a 1024x1024 field and I just made a airfield from one corner to another... 1930 and fully loaded I only got 3k :(
22:16<zil>Journey took about a year! I am coming straight from TT DX to open TTD, never played before, just fancied some retro gaming and can't beleive it is still alive e.t.c.
22:16<Eddi|zuHause> <-- suggests at 300km/h you can cross the entire map at optimum income
22:16<zil>I remember doing a similar route with that fast plane you et later and getting 100+k for the same route
22:17<Eddi|zuHause>note that plane speed might be scaled 1/4, so for airplanes you need 1200km/h
22:17<Eddi|zuHause>[depending on setting]
22:17<zil>im on default
22:18<Eddi|zuHause>but again, i might be misreading the data
22:19<zil>anyway, another question that is going to sound stupid but wondering - does building on farmland affect production?
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22:19<zil>its ok, I understand briefly
22:19<Eddi|zuHause>no, farmland is only there to make clearing it annoyingly expensive, it has no effect on the farm
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22:20<zil>Thanks! I wondered that for many years! I havent played this game for 10+! I feel like a child again! :)
22:21<Eddi|zuHause>i know that feeling ,)
22:22<zil>oh well, time to play again... I remember bunking off school in order to play this on my 486 (original before delux!)... so happy
22:22<zil>thanks for your help
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23:36<Rhamphoryncus>zil: did your plane break down along the way? That severely reduces the speed
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 11 00:00:02 2009