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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-11-24

---Logopened Tue Nov 24 00:00:40 2009
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07:42<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18265 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the finance overview window big font aware
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08:12<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18266 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: Add a function to compute prices from price base and cost factor and use it consistently for vehicle purchase, running cost, and refit cost.
08:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18267 /trunk/src/ (53 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the music window big font aware
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08:16<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18268 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Make price base multipliers related to vehicles only apply to the GRF locally, if it defines engines of that type itself.
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08:28<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18269 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3326]: crash because there was no (hidden) one way widget for the tram toolbar
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08:55<fjb>Oh, nice feature.
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09:06<dihedral>that would look interesting :-) tram rails only on one side of the road ^^
09:06<dihedral>or even in the center of the road :-D
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09:09<@Belugas>good day all
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09:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18270 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: split the code for finding a road stop to stop at into a seperate function
09:20<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18271 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3315]: road vehicles wouldn't reserve a road stop in tunnels/on bridges so when they leave wormhole they're still focussed on the main road stop causing unneededly long queues
09:23<planetmaker>frosch123: do I read correctly that the base price madness kinda comes to an end? :-)
09:23<frosch123>hehe, to some extent yes.
09:24<frosch123>at least wrt. the most whining
09:24<planetmaker>nice! :-)
09:25<planetmaker>How are rail prices handled? They're still changed by all train newgrfs, I assume, yes?
09:25<frosch123>only vehicle purchase, refit and running cost has been changed
09:26<planetmaker>makes sense :-)
09:26<planetmaker>Very much appreciated! very much :-)
09:27<frosch123>you can still globally change the costs for difficulty, but not define new vehicles with the same grf
09:27<planetmaker>:-) Yes. And that's how it makes sense :-)
09:27<frosch123>monolithic grfs are intentionally broken :p
09:27<planetmaker>hehe :-)
09:28<planetmaker>modularity rulez
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09:28<dihedral>uh yeah it does
09:28<planetmaker>he, btw, frosch123: you proposed to make the construction stages for the comic houses white and grayscale.
09:28<frosch123>i posted some examples
09:28<planetmaker>Good thing is: gray scale is already provided by openttd as re-colour. No need for manual art work there :-)
09:29<planetmaker>And it works :-) This is joy
09:29<frosch123>good point
09:29<frosch123>the greyscale recolouring even works for 32bpp
09:30<planetmaker>stage 1 and 2 will need sprites, though.
09:30<planetmaker>My idea (now) is: stage1 = entirely white. Stage 2 = converted to b&w, thus that outlines are visible
09:30<frosch123>i considered the entirely white quite ugly
09:31<planetmaker>he :-)
09:31<planetmaker>what is / was your proposal?
09:31<planetmaker>assuming that re-colour to gray is the last constr. stage?
09:33<frosch123>i liked the partly coloured ones, only red and green
09:33<frosch123>3 (A) that is
09:33<dihedral>one would have to see the partially coloured ones in the surrounding of fully coloured ones (the map)
09:33<dihedral>as it would make a huge difference as opposed to the pink
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09:34<blathijs>You should have a sketchup for the first stage
09:34<blathijs>with non-straight light grey lines and the like
09:34<planetmaker>right. I missed the partial colours
09:34<blathijs>Though that's probably hard to do with so few pixels
09:35<planetmaker>hm... I could skip the sprites for construction stages altogether and go for (different) re-colourings...
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09:35<frosch123>well, 3 (A) was not really "partly coloured", but maybe you could make something like: 1) outline, 2) only colours mostly [red, green, blue], 3) two dominant colours, 4) finished
09:36<frosch123>in any case, the groundsprite is especially ugly when entirely white :p
09:36<dihedral>perhaps a sketchup of the different stages would really not be a bad idea
09:36<dihedral>just so one can see the contrast etc.
09:37<planetmaker>Well... I don't use anything else than default ground sprites so far.
09:37<planetmaker>frosch123: how did you get the white with black outline?
09:38<frosch123> <- there is some explaination
09:39<planetmaker>and that showed the result as in a few postings above that?
09:39<frosch123>yes :p
09:39<frosch123>just "[R G B] := (max(R, G, B) <= 50 ? [0 0 0] : [255 255 255]" for every pixel
09:40<planetmaker>Did you use gimp for that?
09:41<frosch123>today i would, back then i guess i used delphi or fpc
09:41<dihedral>planetmaker, imagic ^^
09:41<dihedral>the convert command might be able to do a lot of that
09:42<planetmaker>gimp can be scripted :-P
09:42<planetmaker>frosch123: I don't understand then, how the difference between the outline and the b&w sketch you show relates to that formula
09:43<frosch123>ah, well, the outline is just some floodfill
09:43<frosch123>first b&w using rule above, then floodfill to find the outer border
09:43<planetmaker>I guess 1) is an additional rule like: =255 when not attached to border? right...
09:44<planetmaker>I'm looking for an efficient method how to obtain these results :-)
09:44<frosch123>well, 1 was created from 2
09:44<frosch123>but i fail to locate the source
09:45<planetmaker>ah, a pity :-(
09:46<frosch123>found it :) but it was slow nevertheless. i did not care about speed for 10 sprites :p
09:46<frosch123>hmm, and i did not comment it at all :p
09:48<@Belugas>same here
09:48<@Belugas>i only comment when a bug is fixed ;)
09:48<frosch123>but yes, it was just just a flood from the outside to the first edges
09:51<planetmaker>he, ok :-)
09:51<frosch123> <- hackish as hell, but worked :p (needs to be called after the B/W conversion)
09:52<planetmaker>that's delphi?
09:53<frosch123>who added a spam filter to ? :p
09:55<dihedral>ask TB ^^
09:55<planetmaker>well... let's play around a bit :-)
09:57*frosch123 starts an expedition to the kitchen
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10:53<JVassie>anyone have any idea why my FIRS .grf wont activate in the latest OTTD Nightly? (r18258). I get this error 'Fatal: EO1: Incompatible set.' Have UKRS v3.04 active, no other train sets. (FIRSversion r365)
10:53<_ln>tjenare egladil
10:54<@Rubidium>maybe firs knows it UKRS doesn't have the appropriate vehicles and disables itself?
10:55<egladil>hallå _ln
10:56<fjb>moin _ln
10:58<@Rubidium>JVassie: FIRS r366 + UKRS 3.04 together works fine for me; maybe it's some other NewGRF?
10:59<@Rubidium>basically *any* other industry related NewGRF
10:59<JVassie>got rid of iron ore and coal mine grfs and no luck
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11:00<JVassie>works now
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11:07<Markk>Just got a question. I've used the ultimate 3-way-junction for a while and worked out a 4-way version of it, but hasn't found any info on the wiki about such a junction.
11:07<Markk>Can I add that junction?
11:07<Markk>A screenshot
11:09<planetmaker>That's hardly anything new, is it?
11:09<Markk>Didn't think so, but as I said, didn't found it on the wiki
11:12<planetmaker>In any case: it's a wiki. If you find something missing and you want to add it: go for it.
11:12<Markk>Okay :)
11:13<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I don't 100% agree with that :)
11:13<planetmaker>he :-)
11:13<planetmaker>maybe add "OpenTTD related"? ;-)
11:13<@Rubidium>yeah, that makes it more agreeable
11:14<planetmaker>adding your p0rn just because you miss it there might be inappropriate :-P
11:14<@Rubidium>but especially spam, which some people find missing, shouldn't be added
11:15<Markk>But that counts for any wiki I hope
11:15<frosch123>but you should try for a smaller image :p
11:16<@Rubidium>Markk: nope, e.g.
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11:17<Markk>Rubidium: Yeah, but uncyclopedia and other language version of it are there for the humour
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11:55<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18272 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: make FindScrollbar a const function
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12:13<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18273 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp):
12:13<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Codechange: do not require widget numbers for default widgets (close, sticky,
12:13<CIA-4>OpenTTD: resize buttons and the caption), except when you want to use SetStringParameter
12:13<CIA-4>OpenTTD: for the caption ofcourse. Also remove the requirement for some of the WDF flags;
12:13<CIA-4>OpenTTD: no need to test for both the flag whether a feature is used and whether the
12:13<CIA-4>OpenTTD: feature is in action.
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12:28<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18274 /trunk/src/ (43 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: remove the unused WDF flags
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12:40<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18275 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r18266): Need to update regression due to different rounding.
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12:56<Zuu>Is there a known issue with uploading to BaNaNaS?
12:56<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18276 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: [NoAI] Make AIIndustryType::GetConstructionCost() return -1, if the industry is neither buildable nor prospectable.
12:57<Zuu>I get an upload error that seams to be that file-uploads is not working on the server.
12:57<@Rubidium>Zuu: TrueBrain would like to know about that
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13:04<Zuu>Rubidium: Okay, I've PMed him with the details.
13:06<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18277 /trunk/src/ (39 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove unneeded widget indices for close, resize and sticky boxes and for window captions
13:28<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18278 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Cleanup (r1): No need to set a cost multiplier for raw-industry-construction of banks. They have never been raw industries.
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13:41<@Belugas>but there are raw sberries
13:43<frosch123>is that something between straw- and rasp-berry?
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18279 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 3 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: greek - 34 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hungarian - 3 changes by alyr
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by silver_777
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13:53<@Belugas>raspberry indeed, but the joke would nt have been possible :)
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16:14<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18280 /trunk/src/ (29 files): -Codechange: remove widget indices that are not needed for custom drawing/handling input
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16:18<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r18281 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: founding towns in-game (based on work by Belugas, TheJosh, GeekToo, Terkhen and others)
16:19<@Rubidium>now it is in trunk... we can revert it while it's still in trunk :)
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16:20<SmatZ>finally ;)
16:20<Alberth>Rubidium: now it is in trunk, now it isn't :)
16:21*Rubidium wonders when the first bug report comes!
16:21<Sacro>there's a bug for me to file?
16:21<@Belugas>ho boy... now i can die in shame...
16:21<@Rubidium>"I build a town and it's now mine!"
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16:21<SmatZ>Belugas: noo :(
16:21<Sacro>hells yes
16:22<frosch123>Belugas: hehe, smatz tried to blame a lot :p
16:23<PeterT>Will Found a Town be in 0.7.4 or in 0.8.0?
16:23<SmatZ>I hope I didn't miss anyone who came with his own custom patch
16:23<SmatZ>PeterT: in 0.8.0
16:23<frosch123>or neither :p
16:24<@Belugas>hehehe yes he did :)
16:24<@Belugas>i think most are there
16:24<@Belugas>although TheJosh should have been the first one
16:25<PeterT>Nice work Belugas, Terken
16:25<fjb>Today is feature day.
16:26<PeterT>Why do you say that?
16:26<_ln>Can I request a feature?
16:27<SmatZ>yes, _ln, you can
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16:27<_ln>It's an old idea, but was classified as interesting back then by mr C.
16:27<@Belugas>bad _ln... wishing andy to leave is not a good one :(
16:28<_ln>And it is... International flights to destinations outside the map.
16:28<PeterT>I read a topic about this once
16:28<PeterT>in the suggestions forum
16:29<@Belugas>i guess it's still in the suggestion forum ^_^
16:29<Alberth>several time probably
16:30<_ln>I didn't mean Mars.
16:31<_ln>And while you're at it, please also add international trains.
16:31<_ln>Thanks in advance.
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16:31<SmatZ>umm okay :)
16:32<PeterT>are you implying that they should add it right now?
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16:33<_ln>No, no, I'm going to bed in a few moments. So tomorrow night is very much sufficient.
16:36<_ln>I wonder what Bjarni would say about PeterT's comment...
16:36<_ln>@seen Bjarni
16:36<@DorpsGek>_ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 36 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
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17:02<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18282 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industrytype.h table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Remove IndustrySpec::raw_industry_cost_multiplier and use 8 * cost_multiplier instead.
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17:09<PeterT>SmatZ: thanks for increasing the found town price
17:11<Terkhen>for me it's too expensive :P
17:13<SmatZ>PeterT: Terkhen: it will be configurable via newgrf (soon ;)
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17:13<SmatZ>it is already, though it's bound to price of building industry
17:14<SmatZ>yes, I guess
17:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18283 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs):
17:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Feature: [NewGRF] Add new price bases for removing industries,
17:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: building/removing unmovables (new objects), building/removing
17:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rail-waypoints/buoys, interacting with town-authority, building foundations,
17:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: funding primary industries (when not prospecting) and towns.
17:15<frosch123>evil smatz, telling everything while i am a the commit message :p
17:15<CIA-4>OpenTTD: If a GRF does not set price multipliers for these new prices, but for the previously used ones, the old modifiers will be propagated to the new bases.
17:16<PeterT>hehe :)
17:16<SmatZ>good frosch123 :)
17:16<@Belugas>evil frosch123, cutting his own commit mesage ;)
17:19<Chris_Booth>evening all
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17:20<SmatZ>evening Chris_Booth
17:21<planetmaker>good evening you industrious, good folks :-)
17:21<Chris_Booth>i see PeterT is annying people in here aswell as in coop
17:21<Chris_Booth>hi planetmaker
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17:22<@Belugas>night all
17:23<Terkhen>good night Belugas
17:24<Terkhen>SmatZ: I found a small bug... when pressing Shift + Found town, the estimated cost is 0
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17:28<SmatZ>Terkhen: yeah, known :) in SE, it shows correct cost
17:28<SmatZ>it shows 0 because you don't have enough money
17:29<SmatZ>or cheat yourself money ;)
17:30<Terkhen>ok :P
17:31<SmatZ> this simplest solution doesn't work :)
17:32<planetmaker>night Belugas
17:36<frosch123>planetmaker: i hope one of you will properly test the new multipliers, e.g. the foundation one
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17:36<planetmaker>:-) Uh... more new multipliers?
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17:39<planetmaker>hm? I just came back from sport and was offline the last hours :-) It was no criticism :-)
17:40<planetmaker>It was a statement of surprise rather, that more things changed than I anticipated ;-)
17:40<frosch123>you missed at least two features :p
17:41<planetmaker>I'm just checking the logs right now :-)
17:41<planetmaker>It's nice reading :-)
17:43<planetmaker>foundations would affect rail building etc also, right?
17:43<frosch123>well, i did not distinguish building foundations under road/rail/everything-you-can-autoslope-below
17:44<Zuu>Congratz to everyone with Fund town, though that breaks my AIs a bit. :-)
17:44<frosch123>Zuu: don't worry, currently there is no AIEvent, so it won't notice :p
17:44<SmatZ>oh, right :-x
17:45<frosch123>SmatZ: more interesting, do you want to allow founding towns for ais :p
17:45<SmatZ>frosch123: I think they should be allowed to do that, not?
17:46<frosch123>i guess so :)
17:46<Zuu>frosch123: Sure, it shouldn't be much of a problem, but having AITownList include new towns that just before was not in there can cause interesting problems if one has assumed that not to happen.
17:47<planetmaker>hm... I wonder whether a town set *should* modify the "fund town". I guess it could handle the "clear house" and "clear road", maybe objects, too
17:47<planetmaker>Lovely, lovely grf parameters :-)
17:47<planetmaker>is "clear house" also grf-local?
17:48<frosch123>currently not, but it might make sense for houses and industries to add that
17:48<planetmaker>yep :-)
17:48<frosch123>but actually i am more concerned about all the stuff that depends on build_industry
17:49<planetmaker>I've not much overview about the interdependencies there. That's more than just industries?
17:49<frosch123>i.e. a industry set making industries more expensive also changes stuff for town authority, funding towns, ....
17:49<planetmaker>oh, do they? *That* does not make sense indeed
17:49<frosch123> <- the last coloumn
17:49<frosch123>but maybe we should change some of them and not care about compatiblity :p
17:50<SmatZ>TownActionRoadRebuild() doesn't create AIEvent... TownActionBuyRights() doesn't even create news item :-p
17:50<frosch123>SmatZ: sounds like a long night for you :p
17:50<SmatZ>I can't do that now :(
17:51<frosch123>hehe :)
17:51<@Rubidium>but doing it in five minutes is fine too!
17:51<planetmaker>loool :-P
17:54<planetmaker>frosch123: I'm not sure I understand that table... the comments give the base prices. There are two base price categories (constr. + running). but...
17:54<frosch123>first column is the value without inflation and with normal construction an running cost
17:54<planetmaker>... the 2nd last row (the last which isn't a comment) is then what? Influenced by what is in the comment?
17:54<frosch123>second columns specifies the difficulty setting that changes the cost
17:55<frosch123>the third column is the grf feature that triggers the multiplier to stay grf local
17:55<frosch123>the last column is the fallback multiplier that is used, if the newgrf only sets the old muliplier, but not the new
17:55<planetmaker>GSF_END = global then
17:55<frosch123>"always global"
17:56<planetmaker>yes. That's what I meant. The others: local when it defines those vehicle types
17:57<frosch123>e.g. currently the fallback for remove_industry is remove_house, because that is the base price ttdp uses and ottd used before. but actually using build_industry might be move useful as fallback
17:58<frosch123>similiar can be said about the buoy stuff. i guess only cs knows in what way buoys are related to truck stops :p
17:58<planetmaker>hahaha :-)
17:58<planetmaker>you know... those trucks with a loooong snorkel so they can pass the channel without a bridge etc ;-)
17:59<frosch123>PR_TOWN_ACTION and PR_BUILD_TOWN are the most questionable though
17:59<planetmaker>it just needs a bit lead so they don't swim
17:59<planetmaker>they're difficulty settings... Better changed via GUI IMO
18:00<planetmaker>but yeah, having towns depend on industry... well.
18:00<frosch123>you can say that about all :p
18:00<planetmaker>noteworthy. Yes, one could ;-)
18:01<planetmaker>But There's nothing in any newgrf which depends on those. Construction costs of rail or so... maybe. But well. Maybe I should make in the comic set town action by default insanely high ;-)
18:01<frosch123>build_town depending on industries is not that bad actually, as it is also a source/destination for cargo
18:02<frosch123>town authority does not fit anywhere though :p
18:02<planetmaker>And give it mystic parameters, and for cash I'll tell the correct values to make it sane ;-)
18:02<planetmaker>he, true. Cargo...
18:02<planetmaker>Reminds me... That was something I wanted to add :-)
18:03<frosch123>so after all, i guess it will just stay like it is currently :p
18:03<planetmaker>Rubish generating houses
18:03<frosch123>if someone cares, he can set the multipliers individually
18:03<frosch123>planetmaker: rubish in comics?
18:04<planetmaker>Dunno. And some houses might generate a few tourists, too.
18:04<frosch123>you could add a saloon accepting tar and feathers
18:04<planetmaker>It was a random idea when I thought about industry set support
18:05<planetmaker>hehe :-)
18:06<planetmaker>I don't yet have a good saloon in those 37 or so houses I have. It's all temperate houses basically.
18:06<planetmaker>Though to my understanding simutran's comic set also features arctic and desert sprites.
18:10<planetmaker>Ok, then let's see that we get a test grf for the new town parameters ;-)
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18:34<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18284 /trunk/src/ (economy_type.h newgrf.cpp): -Cleanup (r18268, r18283): Replace magic value with enum.
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18:45<Terkhen>good night
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19:00<R0b0t1>Hey, sorry for the semi-stupid question... But I updated (supposedly) to the revision the openttd server is using, and then tried make in that folder
19:00<R0b0t1>however, the binary in ./bin does not get updated
19:01<@Rubidium>probably something had opened the binary which made it fail to copy the new binary there
19:01<Xaroth>make install ?
19:02<Xaroth>or make clean before normal make
19:03<@Rubidium>manually copy the binary from objs/release to bin and see if that helps
19:03<@Rubidium>by the way, how did you update what kind of version?
19:03<@Rubidium>e.g. if you tried updating from 0.7.2 to 0.7.3 with some 'svn up' that's not going to work
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19:12<thomas001>hi,do i need to supply fertalizer to food plantations to make them produce any fruit? current production without fertalizer is 8 at a normal level...
19:14<frosch123>you should at least mention the industry set you are using :p
19:17<thomas001>oh ecs agricutlure vector...sorry
19:18<frosch123>then it is likely a production booster, and you need to supply some to get reasonable output
19:18<frosch123>never player it myself though
19:19<thomas001>oh ok,thanks
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19:20<frosch123>but transporting some fruit with a good rating might also help a bit
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19:23<thomas001>food production seems to depend on the date ;)
19:23<thomas001>how annoying
19:24<frosch123>ecs has lots of parameters, maybe you can change that
19:24<thomas001>that whould be cheating ;)
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19:26<planetmaker>parameters are not cheating.
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19:27<planetmaker>They are there to make life nice for those few guys (and girls) who actually read the readme ;-)
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 25 00:00:40 2009