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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-01

---Logopened Tue Dec 01 00:00:40 2009
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01:31<SineDeviance>hi all
01:31<SineDeviance>i have a question. i have installed openttd 0.7.4 in crunchbang linux (built on ubuntu 9.04) and i have also used openttd on windows. i have noticed that the midi music doesn't sound the same as it does in windows?
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03:19<@Rubidium>SineDeviance: probably has to do with the way midi music is transformed into sound
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03:19<muep>SineDeviance: midi music doesn't sound identical on different devices
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03:21<muep>SineDeviance: the midi format includes just kind of notes, not a pre-caclulated sound signal
03:35<SineDeviance>muep, so you're saying the soundfont is different?
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03:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's what they are saying
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04:16<bartavelle>hello
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12:35<JFBelugas>hello
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13:07<Zuu>Hi, is it a policy that functions that always return an object still should return pointers instead of references to the object? As a caller to the function I can only really count on it _always_ returning an object if it returs a reference. If it is a pointer, the implementation may change without getting a notice.
13:08<Zuu>For example AIConfig::GetConfig always return a AIConfig, still it returns a pointer and not a reference.
13:09<Zuu>Would a patch be accepted that change the return type to a reference? Or shall I make my code more complicated to handle the event that the function some time in future may return null?
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13:12<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18358 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Cleanup: More usage of EPV_CYCLES_(DARK|GLITTER)_WATER.
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13:20*frosch123 has no idea. to me it looks like GetConfig is leaking, but maybe that is known
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13:23<Zuu>Hmm, I have no idea if it is known, but indeed it looks like it leaks.
13:23*Rubidium guesses it's legacy from coming from C
13:24<Zuu>Still the AI config code was not written that long ago. But I guess it follows the existing code better to not use references.
13:25<Zuu>to not return references*
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13:25<Zuu>Just saw he actually uses references in the GetConfig code. :-)
13:27<frosch123>ah, silly me. no, it does not leak
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13:28<Zuu>Why is it not leaking when it returns a pointer to a new AIConfig?
13:28<@Rubidium>because the pointer is also assigned to _settings_game.something.ai[something]
13:28<frosch123>because it is "*config = new ...", not "config = new"
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13:29<Zuu>Oh, yea. That is true.
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13:30<Zuu>Never used double pointers in that way.
13:31<frosch123>do you prefer "AIConfig *&config;" ? :p
13:32<@Rubidium>now ponder what happens when AIConfig is an variable of integer type :)
13:34<Zuu>*& becomes interesting.
13:35<frosch123>yeah, it takes you years to learn, whether "*&" or "&*" is correct :p
13:35<Zuu>Isn't *& a pointer to a reference?
13:36<@Rubidium>and &* is bit-and-ing with a dereferenced pointer
13:36<frosch123>*& is a reference of a pointer, &* is invalid
13:36<Zuu>Ok
13:37*frosch123 was talking about declarations
13:37<Zuu>I heavily use references as function arguments and returns when null is not accepted/returned, but that is just me. I'm surprised I still can stand the SDL-library :-)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18359 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt hungarian.txt traditional_chinese.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: croatian - 114 changes by UnderwaterHesus
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hungarian - 26 changes by IPG
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14:05<tomfratelli>Hey
14:05<tomfratelli>In the latest nightly, how do I found towns?
14:05<frosch123>enable it in advanced settings, then hold the mouse on the townlist icon
14:06<tomfratelli>Thank ye'
14:08<Zuu>Nice, got CluelesPlus as my human player and now I fixed in my patch so you can no longer move up AIs to the player slot. :-)
14:09<Zuu>I'm doomed to be Clueless. :-p
14:09<Zuu>Too bad the game does not run the AI in the player slot :-(
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm tired of clicking away 200 messages about "this vehicle has -xyz profit last year"
14:11<tomfratelli>I just started playing today.
14:11<tomfratelli>So yeah.
14:11<tomfratelli>The only thing I don't know how to do is build airplanes.
14:11<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: then disable it in advanced settings?
14:12<frosch123>tomfratelli: click on the hangar of an airport
14:12<tomfratelli>ok
14:12<tomfratelli>Also: Can I build islands? in the middle of the sea?
14:12<SmatZ>you can terraform inslands :-p
14:12<SmatZ>-n
14:13<tomfratelli>I have 59mill just sitting there and I want to build a private island and found a city on it
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: well, that's not the point... the point is, i can't find out which vehicles are actually unprofitable, and which vehicles are only unlucky transferrers...
14:13<tomfratelli>Do I just use the landscaping tool?
14:13<SmatZ>yes
14:13<tomfratelli>ok
14:14<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: well, what do you usually do with unprofitable vehicles anyway?
14:15<tomfratelli>Holy crap, 50k to raise one piece of land above sea level? Am I doing it wrong?
14:15<tomfratelli>One SQUARE
14:15<SmatZ>you're doing it right
14:16<tomfratelli>Aight
14:16<tomfratelli>What should I call my town on my private island?
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>tomfratelli: have you an idea how crazily expensive that is for countries like the netherlands or japan to transform sea into land?
14:17<frosch123>and if you want to fund a town, why do you care about 50k for terraforming? :p
14:17<tomfratelli>Nope, but I prefer being a badass ruler of the world to realism
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14:18<SmatZ>hello Alberth
14:18<frosch123>reminds me, someone volunteers for reworking the cost system of water-related stuff? i.e. different base prices for clearing water, building canal, building locks, ....
14:18<Alberth>hello
14:19<tomfratelli>What costs are we looking at?
14:20<tomfratelli>Is there any more complete gfx overhauls like OpenGFX?
14:20<frosch123>"complete" :p
14:21<tomfratelli>Well, as complete as OpenGFX?
14:21<frosch123>no
14:21<frosch123>but there are a lot specialised grfs
14:22<frosch123>for landscape, for vehicles, for industries,...
14:22<tomfratelli>aight
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>some of these are "themed", like japanese, american, british, ...
14:26<JFBelugas>badass ruleof the world to realism??? what the hell does that mean???
14:27<tomfratelli>Just looked at Simutrans, is it better or worse than OpenTTD?
14:27<JFBelugas>that you want to enforce the reality that you developped in your game?
14:27<frosch123>JFBelugas: replace "to" with "over" and associate it to "prefer"
14:27<JFBelugas>that you want to enforce realism of THE world in your game?
14:28<tomfratelli>Is there an Open Source Rollecoaster Tycoon?
14:28<JFBelugas>though so... another realism freak
14:28<JFBelugas>tomfratelli, no freaking idea
14:29<frosch123>[20:34] <JFBelugas> though so... another realism freak <- no, the reverse
14:29<JFBelugas>ho... well... welcome aboard then!
14:29<tomfratelli>I like a bit of realism, but If it stops me having fun it's too much.
14:29<frosch123>JFBelugas: Eddi|zuHause was the realism-guy in the discussion
14:29<tomfratelli>I like the freedom of being able to build little cities on my own private island.
14:30<tomfratelli>Just because I can.
14:30<tomfratelli>And not worry that the council won't let me.
14:30<JFBelugas>i kind of forgiving to Eddi|zuHause, as he is not perfect but knows a lot and helps a lot
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14:31<JFBelugas>tomfratelli, that's the way to go. Consider it as a game and not as a simulator
14:32<tomfratelli>Just tried simutrans, not good at all, runs terribly on a netbook even though it looks worse than OpenTTD, not as many options.
14:33<tomfratelli>OpenTTD is so much better.
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>there are a handful of things that simutrans does better than openttd
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14:35<tomfratelli>It's probably because I tried OpenTTD first, then.
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>that, and you judge it on the first impression only :p
14:37<tomfratelli>True.
14:37<Zuu>also simutrans has quite good performance on Linux, but the performance seams not as good in Windows.
14:37<tomfratelli>Any exiting developements in the world of OpenTTD? Whats going to be in the next build?
14:38<tomfratelli>People on the streets?
14:38<tomfratelli>Cars?
14:38<Zuu>tomfratelli: Get the last nightly and try it out yourself :-)
14:38<tomfratelli>FIRST PERSON MODE?!
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>you can have cars already
14:38<tomfratelli>Got it, it's great.
14:38<Zuu>Yea, and I even mocked up an AI that builds cars in the bigger towns. :-)
14:38<tomfratelli>Founding Cities is my favourite new feature.
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>there's a "town car AI" with accompanying grf
14:38<tomfratelli>Linkies?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>in the download menu, probably.
14:39<Alberth>argh, it is snowing in the forums
14:39<Zuu>Indeed
14:39<Zuu>tomfratelli: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=42393
14:39<Zuu>But it is better to download the AI from the ingame system if it works for you.
14:40<Zuu>Just notice that TownCars != StreetTraffic
14:40<tomfratelli>Ok.
14:40<tomfratelli>It replaces buses?
14:40<Zuu>StreetTraffic is a fork of TownCars 3.
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause>if you "enable multiple vehicle grfs" in the advanced options, it should not replace anything...
14:41<tomfratelli>ok
14:41<JFBelugas>Alberth, it's snowing in here too
14:42*Zuu sits with Subsilver and has soo far not noticed any snow.
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>hm, it's not snowing in the forum for me... might be a cache issue...
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i hate the snow theme... the font colour hurts...
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: feature request: have an additional forum style that does not seasonally change, but shows the "temperate" style at all times
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14:56<tomfratelli>Feature Request: Order Genocide on towns to greatly decrease the population in that area, costs beteen 5mill and 15 mill depending on the size of the town.
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14:56<@Rubidium>FR declined; see Objectives
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14:57<tomfratelli>Objectives?
14:57<@Rubidium>http://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives
14:58<tomfratelli>Goddommot
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14:58<tomfratelli>Because 6 year olds play Transport Simulation games.
14:58<thingwath>and by the way, that feature is already there, only it's not called genocide, but "magic bulldozer" in the cheat menu :) (what an euphemism)
14:58<tomfratelli>Magic...Bulldozer?
14:59<tomfratelli>Tell me more.
15:00<Chrill>It's a cheat in the game
15:00<Chrill>to remove industries and other undestroyables
15:01<Chrill>you can simply bulldoze everything and anything
15:01<thingwath>or to destroy whole cities at once, when you don't like their names, for example
15:01<Chrill>yeah
15:01<Chrill>.. :P
15:01<Chrill>or you just change the name...?
15:02<thingwath>also a solution, of course
15:02<tomfratelli>Thats awesome.
15:02<Chrill>destroying the town wont remove the town name, thingwath :P
15:02<tomfratelli>Feature Request: Be able to upgrade the HQ (I'm tired of having a shack for HQ)
15:02<Chrill>...
15:02<Chrill>say what?
15:03<Chrill>I hope you know HQs have been upgraded automatically as your company grows since Original Transport Tycoon
15:03<thingwath>well, after razing whole city to ground, you can rename it properly, and rebuild, as a new megapolis, with properly designed streets, and so on
15:03<Zuu>An operator= would you place it at the bottom of the public part or just after the destructor?
15:04<tomfratelli>Aight.
15:04<Zuu>I see operators are not used a lot in OpenTTD, no operator= and a few others.
15:04<tomfratelli>When I delete my lorry loading and bus stations, The name doesn't delete and just goes grey.
15:04<SmatZ>they make code hard to read
15:04<Chrill>tomfratelli, it goes away after a delay
15:05<tomfratelli>ok
15:05<Chrill>for example, if you're redoing the station
15:05<Zuu>Sure, that is why I call the operator explicitly in my code that uses it.
15:05<Chrill>and you first delete it
15:05<Chrill>it cant just go boom disappear
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>tomfratelli: i think it takes one month to go away
15:05<Zuu>Do you have a name convention eg. Assign that is used instead?
15:05<tomfratelli>Feature Request: People on the street.
15:05<Zuu>Oh, well I'm ready to publish the patch, so I just go for one solution and then you can judge if it is a total disaster or not. :-p
15:07<Chrill>tomfratelli: never will happen
15:07<tomfratelli>Why not, can't it just be an AI with buses replaced with people?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't say never...
15:07<Chrill>well, buses dont walk the side of the roads
15:07<Chrill>then again, they could
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>with roadtypes, there could be the possibility of animation frames
15:08<Chrill>using buses as pedestrians with graphics misaligned on purpose is a BAD idea
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>so you could simulate various stages of crowded roads
15:08<Chrill>cus they will queue road vehicles up
15:08<tomfratelli>Feature Request: Be able to control the cars with the arrow keys.
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>tomfratelli: this is not sim city.
15:08<Chrill>tomfratelli: Okay, Locomotion had that, but why'd you ever want to?
15:08<Chrill>If you want to drive vehicles, get a game where.. you drive vehicles
15:09<tomfratelli>Feature Request: OpenSimCity
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15:12<tomfratelli>Feature Request: Hand Drawn grafixxxx
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>feature request: /ignore feature requests
15:12<tomfratelli>kk m8
15:12<SmatZ>Feature Request denied: make it yourself
15:13<Chrill>somethign tells me most graphics are drawn by someone using their hand..
15:13<tomfratelli>Feature Request: FUCKING SANTA FUCKING REPLACEMENT FOR THE FUCKING BUS FUCKING SLEIGH FUCK
15:13<Chrill>Feature request: +b tomfratelli
15:13<tomfratelli>:cool:
15:14<SmatZ>@ban tomfratelli 600
15:14<SmatZ>...
15:14<Zuu>SmatZ: I've posted the patch on tt-forums, forum 33. IF you want to read it. (no obligation). I'm off to dormitory cleeling for a while. :-)
15:14<tomfratelli>ffff-
15:14<Zuu>cleaning*
15:14-!-mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by DorpsGek
15:14<tomfratelli>What patch, Zuu?
15:14-!-mode/#openttd [+b tomfratelli!*@*] by SmatZ
15:14-!-tomfratelli was kicked from #openttd by SmatZ [User terminated!]
15:14<Zuu>tomfratelli: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46085
15:14<LordAzamath>Feature request: Be happy!
15:14<@SmatZ>:)
15:14<Zuu>hehe, now he can't reed my answer :-)
15:15-!-mode/#openttd [-b tomfratelli!*@*] by SmatZ
15:15<Zuu>Too bad :-p
15:15<JFBelugas>whhooo... SmatZ's power been revealed!
15:15<JFBelugas>WAY TO GO !
15:16<JFBelugas>Did not saw that' had a kitkat break
15:16<@SmatZ>:)
15:17-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.168.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:17<@Rubidium>SmatZ: /ignore is so much easier; doesn't require any authentication whatsoever
15:18<@SmatZ>Rubidium: yeah, but then other people have to listed (read: read) his language
15:18<@SmatZ>+ if (this->selected_slot > _settings_newgame.difficulty.max_no_competitors)
15:18<@SmatZ>Zuu: missing { } :)
15:20<Chris_Booth>feature request (anyone who says that with a swear word in they should be banned for life)
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>strategical question: in UpdateLevelCrossing it has a check "/* train on crossing || train approaching crossing || reserved */" <-- you think it's possible to reduce that to only "reserved", and instead convert the other two to ensure they have a reservation?
15:21<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause: couldnt you just make if a train is within a cretain distance the crossing closes?
15:21<@Rubidium>guess it is, although I'm not sure what happens with e.g. crashes of trains
15:21<Chris_Booth>as i it is done in real life?
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: no
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: that is not the point
15:22<Chris_Booth>ooh ok
15:22<@SmatZ>train approaching crossing =/=> reserved
15:22<@SmatZ>train on crossing =/=> reserved
15:22<Chris_Booth>i just though if you had a set number like 7 tiles away and the gates close
15:23<@SmatZ>there are some corner cases when train is on crossing without reserved track
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: yes, the question is, if it can be achieved that it will become a "==>"
15:23<@SmatZ>(generally, on any track tile)
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: like how?
15:23<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: with a lot of computing power
15:23<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: two trains at one tile, leave with one
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>oh, yes
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>i see
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>but that's a problem one might ignore
15:24<@SmatZ>it would be too easy to kill opponent's cars
15:24<@SmatZ>maybe even not intentionally
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, it already IS too easy to kill opponents cars ;)
15:25<Chris_Booth>make it so that trains cant crash into buses
15:25<Chris_Booth>as with boats / planes
15:26<@Rubidium>yeah, just remove all crashing :)
15:27<@Rubidium>and let them run whereever they want
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: well my aim was, to store two flags in the map: that the crossing is "forced" closed, and that the crossing is "weak" closed. so it can be easily calculated on changing the "forced" closed state, one could traverse the adjacent crossings and "weak" close them, or open them, if no crossing is "force" closed
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>so i thought i'd use the "reserved" flag as the "forced" flag, and the "barred" flag as "weak" flag
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>so it wouldn't need more map space
15:29<@SmatZ>Zuu: I just wanted to suggest you to use "those arrow buttons from newgrf GUI" but it seems, it's only present in the "better newgrf gui patch"
15:29<@SmatZ>Zuu: could you open a FS task please?
15:32<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "forced" and "weak"
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: when closing adjacent crossings simultaneously, you have to remember somehow, how many of the crossings are actually occupied
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>you can only open them, if none of them is occupied anymore
15:33<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause: wouldnt it be eaiser to close both crossings at once?
15:33-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.114.41.6.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: the problem is not closing them, but opening them
15:33<Chris_Booth>so then you can get the issue of this ever?
15:33<andythenorth>evening
15:34<Chris_Booth>well then close and open them both at once
15:34<@SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: so you are talking about the case when you have several crossings in one PBS block
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>rather: deciding programmatically, when to open them
15:34<fjb>Moin andythenorth
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: no, i mean crossings on parallel tracks
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>adjacent following the road bit
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: currently, especially with PBS, those are a death trap
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: so the idea is closing them all at once, so vehicles won't pile up in the middle of the crossing
15:35<@SmatZ>ah
15:35<_ln>today i saw the perfect screen for playing OpenTTD at an electronics store... a Panasonic 103-inch plasma tv, fullhd.
15:36<Xaroth>it won't work
15:36<Xaroth>TV screens aren't made for games
15:36<Chris_Booth>_ln: how is that perfect?
15:36<Chris_Booth>its still only 1080p
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: no, TV screens are ugly, they have too little resolution
15:36<Chris_Booth>103 inch 1080 is the same as a 24 inch PC screen
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you just have 6 times larger pixels...
15:36<Xaroth>try 17 inch
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>or 8 times
15:37<@Rubidium>so... no need for the 'extrazoom' 32bpp crap
15:37<_ln>that's almost like saying 2 inch is as good as 8.
15:38<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: But you have to prevent the road vehicles from entering the crossing while still allowing the vehicles on the crossing to leave it (and still using the parallel crossing on that way).
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: the size doesn't matter :p
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: second step...
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15:38<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: or third...
15:38<Chris_Booth>Xaroth: you have a 17 inch screen that is 1900 x 1080?
15:38<Xaroth>no, but which part of 103 inch did you miss?
15:39<Chris_Booth>the 71 inches
15:40<Chris_Booth>as i use my 32 inch pc screen for most things
15:40*Eddi|zuHause just has a hard time imagining, extrapolating from his screen, where he'd put 15 more screens of that size...
15:41<Alberth>you need a bigger house
15:41<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: new house? :P
15:42<Xaroth>KenjiE20: Dominion!
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>_ln: anyway, could be more useful for Wii-Partys and the like...
15:42<KenjiE20>26% d/l'd
15:42<Xaroth>HAH!
15:42*Xaroth at loginscreen
15:43<KenjiE20>well whoop dee do
15:43-!-phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:43<Xaroth>ooo mail icon at login screen o_O
15:44<_ln>the price tag was quite high though, so i couldn't buy the thing right away.... 64,990 euros.
15:44<Xaroth>oo, mass mark as read
15:45<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause: get a bigger desk
15:45<Chris_Booth>i have 2 screens on my desk a 19" LCD and a 32" LCD
15:45<Chris_Booth>how far would you need to sit from a 103" screen to be albe to see ti all?
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>across the road :p
15:46<andythenorth>anyone tried a recent nightly of FIRS, where farm / engineering supplies work as intended?
15:46<_ln>you can watch it through a reversed binocular so it looks smaller
15:47<Chris_Booth>andythenorth: when was the last nightly for FIRS released?
15:47<andythenorth>should be 21st Nov
15:47<@Rubidium>21-11-2009 18:18?
15:47<Chris_Booth>also andythenorth i can put it on #openttdcoop/pro for the next game if you have released to bananas
15:47<andythenorth>Rubidium: yes, that looks right
15:48<KenjiE20>^ that should be .dev C_B
15:48<Chris_Booth>KenjiE20: why? if its on bananas everyone can get it
15:48<andythenorth>Chris_Booth: I don't like to release an unfinished grf to bananas....not all players will understand it ;)
15:49<KenjiE20>If it was on BaNaNas why limit it to PZ anyway?
15:49<andythenorth>release early...release often is good but only with users who understand what that means
15:50<andythenorth>anyway, just wondering if anyone else had tried recent FIRS. I have played quite a long game...it's...interesting
15:50<Chris_Booth>KenjiE20: i said #openttdcoop/pro
15:51<Chris_Booth>not '.'
15:51<Chris_Booth>anyway i dont have enough time to play at the moment so i cant put make maps
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>why is there "UpdateLevelCrossing" and "MaybeBarCrossingWithSound"?
15:53<@SmatZ>see where are those functions used
15:53<@SmatZ>and what they do :-p
15:53<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18360 /trunk/config.lib: -Add: configure 'support' for GCC's LTO and ICC's IPO
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause>the latter is used on train reversing and "check if line ends", so possibly in these stages, the "/* train on crossing || train approaching crossing || reserved */" check could give incorrect results
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>i guess one could replace those with making a reservation instead
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>and then reusing the other function
16:02<@SmatZ>reservation insided non-pbs block? hmhm
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, afair the train reserves space underneath it anyway, regardless of pbs block
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>the question is, if this could interfer with the regular pbs reservation
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'm prototyping my idea here...
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16:06<frosch123>hmm, you cannot just reserve level crossings. reservation is also uses to test whether another train has reserved a tile
16:06<frosch123>searching for free paths stops at reserved tracks
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's what i mean...
16:07<frosch123>or do you want the roadvehicle to reserve it :p
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>in the situations i mentioned, the train itself would be either on top of the tile, or on the tile before
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>so it should not interfer with reservation of other trains
16:08<frosch123>anyway, why do you want to use the reservation bit, if there is already a "reserved" (= barred) bit
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i explained above, i need two flags
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>a "closed, because train is here" and a "closed, because adjacent is closed"
16:10<frosch123>and when you have three crossings in a row, the first is reserved, all are closed and you remove the one in the middle?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>so if a train says "i'm through here, you can open this", i need to cycle through all adjacent crossings, if neither of them says "closed, because train is here", i can open them
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: then at that point you need to update the adjacent crossings the same way
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that's a case that can be handled, but first i need to finish this prototype ;)
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16:23<Hirundo>train_cmd.cpp line ~4100: DeleteLastWagon(v); SetWindowDirty(WC_REPLACE_VEHICLE, (v->group_id << 16) | VEH_TRAIN);
16:23<Hirundo>Isn't v a dangling pointer if DeleteLastWagon(v) removes v itself?
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't v be the first vehicle?
16:26<Hirundo>first == last if there is only one
16:26<@SmatZ>could be
16:26*SmatZ tests
16:26<frosch123>looks like it
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16:28<@SmatZ>yes, it is
16:28<frosch123>only is dangerous since newest pool :)
16:29<frosch123>so only trunk
16:30<@SmatZ>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/hirundo.diff ;)
16:31<frosch123>hehe, true, the dirtiing the window does not care about vehicles
16:32<frosch123>but, actually, why is the function there and not in some predestructor?
16:32<@SmatZ>good question :)
16:33-!-zodttd2 is now known as zodttd
16:34<frosch123>it should be at that point, where the engine counter is decreased
16:34<@SmatZ>makes sense
16:36<frosch123>and it is already done
16:37<frosch123> if (this->owner == _local_company) InvalidateAutoreplaceWindow(this->engine_type, this->group_id); <- in Vehicle::PreDestructor
16:37<@SmatZ>hehe
16:37<frosch123>though i wonder whether group_id is set for all wagons :s
16:37<@SmatZ>hmm
16:37<@SmatZ>hmmmmmmm
16:38<frosch123>which leads to my favorite function :p
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16:39<frosch123>yes, UpdateTrainGroupID is called somewhere
16:39<@SmatZ>evjoy ;)
16:39<@SmatZ>enjoy
16:39<frosch123>so, i guess we can just remove that line :p
16:39<frosch123>right?
16:40<@SmatZ>if it doesn't break anything
16:40<@SmatZ>maybe it can be removed from other vehicle types as well
16:40<@SmatZ>like, RVs
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16:40<frosch123>already grepped for the windowclass, nothing found
16:40<@SmatZ>ok :)
16:40<frosch123>i guess it was just forgotton to remove it from there too
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16:41<frosch123>who commits and takes the blame if it was needed nevertheless? :p
16:41<@SmatZ>you
16:41<@SmatZ>:-)
16:42<frosch123>ok, train_cmd is untouched in this working copy
16:42<Alberth>good night
16:43<@SmatZ>good night, Alberth
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16:46<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18361 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Remove unneeded usage of invalid pointer. Also thank Hirundo and SmatZ.
16:46<@SmatZ>;-)
16:47<frosch123>it was fun to type "unneeded usage of invalid" :p
16:47<@SmatZ>hehe
16:47-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
16:48*frosch123 wonders when Zuu is going to broil petert
16:48-!-Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
16:49<frosch123>"Zuu: it was nice to use the nested widgets" - "petert: can you backport it to 0.7" lol
16:51<andythenorth>could anyone use generic narrow gauge trainset?
16:51<andythenorth>(if I made one)
16:51<andythenorth>kind of industrial-ish
16:51<andythenorth>mix of us / europe
16:51<andythenorth>oh, australia as well
16:52<frosch123>like heqs? e.g. mining locomotives?
16:53<frosch123>even battery powered
16:53<andythenorth>maybe
16:54<frosch123>heqs on rails sounds interesting :p
16:54<fjb>Would be fun, especially in combination with railtypes. :-)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>i used the early cargo trams of the german tram set for that, but they have horribly low capacity for their size
16:55<frosch123>hehe, you mean the 8 part trams with less capacity than two trucks?
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>yes, something like that...
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17:09<Zuu>frosch123: Yea, that was a nice way to put it :-)
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17:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18362 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: remove OPF for RVs and NTP to clean up lots of code and simplify some things for the future
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>what future?
17:19<frosch123>one without rv-opf and ntp
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>... always this mysticism ;)
17:20-!-Gremnon [~Gremnon@87.112.14.85.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Goodbyeeeee]
17:20<frosch123>otoh, cleanup always refers to the past
17:20<@Rubidium>with path signals NTP was already hardcoded 'overridden' to NPF
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>so, why keep NPF?
17:22<frosch123>why remove it?
17:22<@Rubidium>less memory requirements, way to test behaviour
17:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: did you ever debug yapf?
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>no, ;)
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, i tried, but didn't understand the output ;)
17:23<frosch123>npf is like -b8bpp-simple :p
17:24<Zuu>frosch123: Unfortunately I'm not really that evil peroson that I'll broil petert that much.
17:25<frosch123>:p
17:27<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18363 /trunk/src/ (47 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: do not require advanced settings multistrings to start at 0
17:27<@SmatZ>cool 0.8 feature ;)
17:28<frosch123>yeah, the cleanups of the past lead to new features :p
17:28<@SmatZ>hehe
17:29-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fdc0a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:30<Zuu>The "broil" is ready :-)
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17:39<Coco-Banana-Man>YAY! :D
17:39-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9841.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:40*Coco-Banana-Man finally finished his Shinkansen-Line from West to East of a 1024² map :D :D
17:40<@SmatZ>:-)
17:40*Zuu high fives Coco-Banana-Man
17:40<Coco-Banana-Man>I think I spend around 5 Billions of Yen :D
17:40<Coco-Banana-Man>*spent
17:41*Zuu hopes Coco-Banana-Man did not just drag a long straight track, but actually but some love into it.
17:41<Coco-Banana-Man>what I want to say with that: BaseCostsMod ftw!!! <3
17:41*SmatZ buts love in it
17:41<Zuu>put*
17:42<Coco-Banana-Man>but now I need to build signals on it :(
17:42<Coco-Banana-Man>And find a nice place for the depot...
17:43<Zuu>Be glad that you can drag them out :-)
17:43<Zuu>I remember the old days when you had to place every signal by hand.
17:43<Coco-Banana-Man>hm, never tried that feature...
17:43<Coco-Banana-Man>That's how I'm usually still doing it.
17:43<Zuu>http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Signal_Construction
17:44<Zuu>Reading that can probably save you some time :-)
17:45<Zuu>I switched to OpenTTD when they implemented auto-rails and you was able to drag diagonal rails. :-)
17:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18364 /trunk/ (44 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: move the pathfinders and their related files into a separate directory
17:48<Coco-Banana-Man>hey, just having to push Ctrl and then drag is really niiiice :D
17:48<Coco-Banana-Man>thanks Zuu =D
17:48<Zuu>Your welcome :-)
17:49<Zuu>I'm glad I could save you a ton of clicks :-)
17:51<Zuu>If you havn't learned about the path signals I suggest that you read on on the signals wiki where it talks more about signals.
17:51<Zuu>Especially the path-signal section.
17:52<Coco-Banana-Man>oh, I'm very aware of Path-signals ;)
17:52<Zuu>Good
17:52<Coco-Banana-Man>I just never tried the automatically placing feature
17:52<Coco-Banana-Man>But I knew it existed
17:53<Zuu>Eh, that is weired. You gladely cilcked hundreds of times and knew there was an automatic tool?
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17:55<Coco-Banana-Man>yes - as I said, I've never tried it - and actually didn't think it would be that easy and work so well
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18:10<Luukland>Mr Rubidium?
18:11<Luukland>How come when long bridges are disabled, ppl can still build 51-tile aquaducts?
18:11<Muxy>Real time processing
18:11<Luukland>Sounds very difficult
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18:14<Eddi|zuHause>hm... what's the function to get the direction of the road bit on the crossing?
18:15<@Rubidium>check road_map.h
18:16<@Rubidium>I reckon GetCrossingRoadAxis
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>i see...
18:18<@Rubidium>they can't build an aquaduct that long (ever)
18:18<@Rubidium>(but that's me being pedantic)
18:19*Luukland goes verify it
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18:19<Luukland>Uuuhhhmm
18:19<Luukland>I do see a 55-tile aquaduct Mr Rubidium
18:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18365 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: remove duplicate table
18:20<Luukland>See for yourselve at S4
18:21<@SmatZ>hmm yes, I just built 184 tiles long one
18:21<@Rubidium>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aquaduct
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18:22<Eddi|zuHause>why is it not spelled aquaeduct anyway?
18:22<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18366 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move the OPF ship pathfinder 'magic' that was in ship_cmd.cpp to the pathfinder code itself
18:23<Luukland>Hmmmm, cos 3 aeau type letters are to be messed with?
18:23<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: you mean 'aquæduct'?
18:23<Zuu>I think dvorak had a dark plan there :-p
18:24<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: because then the English can't pronounce it right
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18:25<@Rubidium>but finally someone finds aqueducts can be of (almost) infinite length
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18:26<_ln>how much shorter than infinity?
18:26<Zuu>Rubidium: Didn't you made an evil AI test map with really long aqueducts?
18:26<@Rubidium>no, really long (slow) bridges
18:27<@Rubidium>and slow flooding
18:27<Zuu>Hmm, then it was someone else / something else
18:27<Zuu>But those maps I do remember, and the one with build on slope turned off.
18:44<@orudge>[13:44:38] <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: feature request: have an additional forum style that does not seasonally change, but shows the "temperate" style at all times <-- that's something that's been requested a few times, but would be somewhat of a faff
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure what a "faff" is
18:45<@orudge>a hassle
18:45<@orudge>or a pain
18:45<@orudge>to implement
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>but how difficult can it be to copy an existing style?
18:46<@orudge>well, not hard as such, but then it needs maintaining during the year (which OK, just involves duplicating the main one basically), plus then you'd no doubt get users wondering "why don't I have the Christmas theme?", or "why are there two identical TT themes", etc. Anyway, people get used to the winter theme, then the normal theme looks odd to them when it's taken away again ;)
18:47<Zuu>Or one just stick to subsilver :-)
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18:47<Pikka>Chrill you goon
18:48<Chrill>goon? :( Whyy?
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: no, i can never get used to the christmas theme...
18:48<Pikka>because you joined a second after I did
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>the colours hurt my eyes...
18:48<Chrill>is that so?
18:48<Chrill>I follow you, Pikka
18:48<Pikka>dundundun
18:51<Sacro>orudge: toyland theme kthx
18:51<@orudge>Sacro: that happens at Easter
18:51<@orudge>except I've forgotten for the past few years
18:51<Chrill>The Toyland theme.. ah
18:52<_ln>when's the time for the tropical theme?
18:53<@orudge>so far, there has been no such thing
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>but... global warming...
18:55<_ln>and mars?
18:56<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18367 /trunk/ (13 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: unify the ship pathfinder 'calls'
18:56<Zuu>Yea, a cop15 theme :-)
18:57<Zuu>Actually I think the winter theme looks nicer than the temperate theme, but that is because I only look on the TTD themes, I never use them for reading posts. :-)
19:01<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18368 /trunk/src/pathfinder/ (npf/npf.cpp npf/npf_func.h opf/opf_ship.h yapf/yapf.h): -Fix: alignment of comment and 'add' some missing comments
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19:27<Eddi|zuHause>question again: with this test "train on crossing || train approaching crossing || reserved" shouldn't that be reordered to make better use of lazy evaluation? (easiest checks first)
19:28<@SmatZ>hehe, I asked myself the same ;)
19:31<SpComb>man, reading the daylength patch discussion screws with your mind
19:31*Zuu wants a daylength patch for IRL to make the days longer
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause>http://xkcd.com/320/
19:37<Chrill>yes, we'd need that
19:37<Chrill>shame school don't do 28hour days :(
19:37<Chrill>goodnight now, #openttders
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19:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm... in principle it seems to work, but i must have missed some case at the pbs reservations
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>and paxlink v4 crashes ...
19:52<Zuu>v4, that sounds old :-)
19:53<Markk>28h days would own
19:53<Markk>I'm gonna try that in januari
19:53<Markk>Have some spare time and studies at distance
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19:54<Zuu>I study at a little bit more than 50% at the moment since I had almost 150% at the beginning of the autum. :-)
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19:54<Markk>Zuu: nice
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't align well with my fixed hobby appointments, which are on monday evening
19:54<Zuu>Yea it is nice now :-)
19:55<Markk>:)
19:55<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: You have to make a 6 day week with mondays almost normal.
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19:56<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: you'll have to move it then :)
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>what part of "fixed" is unclear to you?
19:56<Markk>ah, missed that part
19:56<Markk>Sorry :)
19:57<Zuu>Anyway 28 hour days should make it, since 24 * 7 / 6 yeilds 28 hour.
19:57<Markk>That sounds a little bit lite Sheldon in the big bang theory
19:57<Zuu>So the weeks should still be the same every week so you can just allign it so that your mondays work.
19:58<Markk>Yeah, but the problem is the weekends, if you don't have any problem with skipping the "going out" on weekends, there's no problem :)
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>i already did the maths a while ago... there's no way it can sensibly fit in my weekly schedule...
19:59<Markk>Anyone here that knows any good electronicshops in Berlin btw?
19:59<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: that's to bad :/
19:59<Markk>too*
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20:15<SpComb>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=826213#p826213 <-- this doesn't seem intuative
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20:17<Eddi|zuHause>that's exactly the problem. everybody expects something different from changing the daylength
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20:23<SpComb>and pavel's patch looks pretty fragile
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20:24<SpComb>it includes all kinds of funky date/month arithmetic
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20:42<SpComb>like an O(N) DaysInCurrentMonth
20:47<SpComb>I guess I can see why this stuff tends not to get into trunk
20:48<_ln>more briefly: stuff tends not to get into trunk
20:49<SpComb>the patch doesn't even modify the value of DAY_TICKS
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20:52<Eddi|zuHause>the earlier daylength patches replaced every occurance of DAY_TICS with an appropriate DayLength()-Function
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>which tended to make them very conflict prone
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20:56<@Rubidium>really? DAY_TICKS isn't changed that often
20:59<SpComb>couldn't you just #define DAY_TICKS to something? >_<
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>no, but it is used all over the place
20:59<SpComb>the daylength patch does fix some real issues, like network chat message display duration being measured in game days
21:03<@Rubidium>also e.g. lagging of clients is in game days
21:04<@Rubidium>which isn't that bad because if the server runs slow the clients will 'naturally' get the commands 'too late', so scaling that to the actual speed of the game (instead of some external clock) is 'good'
21:05<SpComb>where is client lag measured?
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21:06<CaptObvious>Is there a place to download old nightlies?
21:06*CaptObvious needs r17888
21:07<CaptObvious>aha, copied the latest nightly download link and modified it and it worked :)
21:07<@Rubidium>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk/r17888 ?
21:08<@Rubidium>SpComb: somewhere in network_server.cpp or so I reckon
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21:12<SpComb>so what happens if you replace DAY_TICKS with `#define DAY_TICKS _settings_game.economy.day_ticks`?
21:13<SpComb>adding in some parenthesis for good measure
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21:25<SpComb>you get more income and less cargo
21:35<SpComb>well, slightly less income, I guess, since the cargo payment depends on your speed in tiles/day
21:55<SpComb>hrm, CargoPacket::days_in_transit is incremented every 184 ticks
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22:51<SpComb>can STDG_VAR's be network-safe?
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23:37<SpComb>curious, a doubling of DAY_LENGTH also causes a doubleing of industry "production last month"
23:42<SpComb>quite, it's units-per-255-ticks
23:49-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@88.130.168.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:50<SpComb>and 255*8 is roughly 28*74
---Logclosed Wed Dec 02 00:00:40 2009