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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-08

---Logopened Tue Dec 08 00:00:50 2009
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01:20-!-Maki [~maki@82-168-82-133.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
01:21<Maki>Hello all.
01:25-!-xi23 [~xi@78.110.223.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:26<Maki>Anyone alive?
01:26<Maki>I have a question I don't know where else to go to.
01:40<Maki>I was wondering where to find more information with regards to r17338.
01:40<Maki>I've been trying to find it in the forums without much luck
01:42<Maki>With regards to r17338, I was wondering if it solved the issue I see mainly in small airports, which is that the airplanes on the ground often are allowed to move while there may be a queue of several planes in the air.
01:42<Maki>Considering I would rather first see if this is solved before bothering people on the forum with it, I'll stick around for another hour or so here.
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01:53<Forked>I have no idea, but you could always test it yourself?
01:53<Maki>test what?
01:54<Sacro>if it solved the issue I see mainly in small airports, which is that the airplanes on the ground often are allowed to move while there may be a queue of several planes in the air.
01:54<Maki>I can't do that.
01:54<Sacro>oh?
01:55<Maki>I use Kubuntu Hardy because KDE 4 isn't stable enough yet for me to want to change to it. So I'm waiting past Karmic. Kubuntu has the nasty habit of not updating packages such as OpenTTD until the next Kubuntu release. I already checked to see if I could upgrade by adding Karmic to my repositories but it seems there are some KDE 4 dependencies it won't run without. So I'm stuck running 0.6.0
01:56<Maki>Karmic, by the way, has OpenTTD 0.7.1 from the top of my head.
01:59<Maki>Aanyhow.. information about r17338 should be available online somewhere, no? I just want to know where. @_@
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02:03<Maki>Basically I just want to know if this apparent "better behavior for airplanes at airport" has to do with a change in the priority of planes in the air and ground or if the movement of airplanes on (larger) airports had been finetuned.
02:05<Maki>I just have no idea where to find more information and the one-line wiki explanation doesn't help.
02:07<Forked>One could always compile it, or use the nightly build
02:08<Maki>If one had the know-how. I can read code, but I am notoriously bad at compiling from source.
02:08<Maki>But seriously. Isn't there an online archive of these things somewhere?
02:10<Forked>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk ?
02:10<Maki>Forked: Will that include descriptions as to what r17338 means exactly? Like what got changed in what?
02:12<Forked>17338: -Feature(tte): Add extra entry points for all airports so planes don't make strange turns when entering the holding stack
02:12<Maki>You got that out of there?
02:12<Forked>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/17338/
02:13<Forked>looks like there are several airport/plane-related things in the commits right before 17338 as well
02:13<Maki>Ah
02:13-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
02:13<Forked>by yexo
02:13<Forked>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/log/?action=stop_on_copy&mode=stop_on_copy&rev=17338&stop_rev=&limit=20
02:13<Maki>Now we're getting somewhere. I didn't know of this
02:16<Yexo>did I see my name?
02:16<Forked>Yexo: yes, it's your own fault for making commits :)
02:16<Yexo>hehe
02:16<Yexo>good morning all :)
02:16<Maki>Good morning
02:17<Yexo>personally I prefer the http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg interface, but it's really the same information
02:18*Maki nods
02:18<Maki>So basically that deals with movement patterns. Not so much the priority.
02:18<Yexo>yes
02:19<Yexo>I haven't seen any requiest for changng the priority before
02:19<Maki>I'm that kind of person, no worries.
02:19<Yexo>what is it that you want changing exactly? First land all planes and move them to the hangar before any other plane is allowed to take off?
02:20<Maki>Well, yes and no. Basically I end up early in the game with several airports where there might be a 10-plane holding queue. This can be rather problematic and when you look at real airports they tend to want to make that queue smaller while still allowing airplanes on the ground to fly away again.
02:21<Maki>Small airports will tend to let one plane land, unload, go service at the hangar if needed and then take off, before allowing another plane to land.
02:21<Maki>It would be better to have one airplane land, move to the gate, then allow another to land and move to the gate. The first airplane can then move to hangar or take off, allowing another to take its place.
02:22<Maki>Considering I'm using 0.6.0 this might have already changed..
02:27<Maki>I'm not sure how the priority system works for OpenTTD, so I can't come up with an idea for how to implement this. o.o
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02:37<Terkhen>good morning
02:37<Maki>Good Tuesday!
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03:13<planetmaker>moin
03:14<Maki>Happy Tuesday, planetmaker
03:39<@Rubidium>evening planetmaker
03:39<planetmaker>:-)
03:40<planetmaker>Rubidium: you should fix your URL quote in the forums
03:41<@Rubidium>stupid forum not allowing [] in urls :(
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04:01<@Rubidium>ah bugger... no "Happy Tuesday" for me... and I wanted to say that I was on Christmas Island and that is was Wednesday
04:01<@Rubidium>(or almost wednesday at least)
04:11<planetmaker>hehe
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04:27<TrueBrain>[08:16] <Yexo> did I see my name? <- ghehe, now I don't see my name, but
04:27<TrueBrain>now I do
04:27<TrueBrain>tricky thing ... :p
04:29-!-bartaway is now known as bartavelle
04:29<bartavelle>hello
04:38<@peter1138>http://www.thestar.com/business/article/735096--geist-record-industry-faces-liability-over-infringement
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05:00<@Rubidium>oh look, that are numbers that are interesting :)
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05:25<Forked>interesting case
05:27<bartavelle>http://boardingarea.com/blogs/viewfromthewing/2009/12/06/the-tsa-puts-their-sensitive-security-screening-procedures-online-for-all-to-see-oops/
05:27<bartavelle>ooooops
05:27<bartavelle>bad window
05:27<bartavelle>might be interesting to you anyway :/
05:28<@Rubidium>the tsa is stupid anyway
05:29<@Rubidium>e.g. what's the most common explosive-ish?
05:29<bartavelle>alcohol or gas ?
05:30*Forked overloads a fully charged laptop battery
05:31<@Rubidium>getting explosion grade alcohol might be tricky, and I didn't think of gas.. but getting that in a plane is quite tricky
05:32<@Rubidium>but Forked is right... laptop batteries are quite hazardous
05:32<@peter1138>yeah but a bottle of water might be dangerous too
05:32<bartavelle>yup
05:33<@Rubidium>although the most dangerous, health wise, is that you can't smoke in aircraft anymore
05:35<@Rubidium>which meant that they do now recirculate more of the air instead of having to presurise outside air (resulting in less fuel usage)
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05:40<SmatZ>hehe
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07:24<@peter1138>hmm, is there a linux filesystem that will do compression?
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07:25<Noldo_>peter1138: apparently no
07:27<@Rubidium>ext4!
07:27<Noldo_>well, there seem to be some on top of fuse
07:27<bartavelle>there are read only filesystems
07:27<blathijs>squashfs!
07:28<bartavelle>also cramfs
07:29<bartavelle>if btrfs works it should do it, as it is supposed to have all the features you need
07:30<bartavelle>or you could finally use actual OSes :p
07:30<blathijs>Woah, can you tell _all_ the features peter1138 needs just from that one line? :-)
07:30<bartavelle>btrfs has them all :)
07:30<blathijs>Hehe
07:30<bartavelle>it is supposed to be the linux zfs
07:30<blathijs>bartavelle: What's an actual OS in your opinion? Solaris? :-)
07:31<bartavelle>just trolling :)
07:31<bartavelle>but zfs seems to be the best FS
07:31<blathijs>bartavelle: Too bad, I was hoping for a nice flamewar :-p
07:31<bartavelle>and solaris has really cool features that will never appear in linux
07:31<bartavelle>like it is actually made for people who work
07:32<blathijs>That's a bit of a meta-feature :-p
07:33<bartavelle>one great feature of solaris is that when you use the "top" function, you do not notice that it is top who is taking all the CPU
07:33<blathijs>Eh? Is that a feature?
07:34<bartavelle>my phrase is poorly worded
07:34<bartavelle>hum
07:34<bartavelle>with a busy linux server, top always come on top of the cpu usage, because it is a ressource hog
07:34<@peter1138>oh, yeah, i need read/write :)
07:34<bartavelle>peter1138, solaris or windows offer this feature :p
07:36<blathijs>bartavelle: I think hiding a process that _is_ taking CPU is really not a solution. Making top not eat CPU would (though I have not seen this particular problem on my linux systems, IIRC)
07:36<bartavelle>thay's the point
07:36<bartavelle>it is not hiding it
07:36<bartavelle>solaris top is not a ressource hog
07:37<bartavelle>because their OS is (arguably) designed for people with real server workload
07:37<bartavelle>this was however a troll attempt
07:37<bartavelle>not to be taken too seriously (but it is true)
07:37<@peter1138>blathijs, reminds of the people who complain that pulseaudio takes a lot of cpu... and that mixing should be done in kernel because it takes less
07:39<@Rubidium>the only problem I have with top is that it occasionally says that xmms is using 9999% CPU, which is kinda hard with only 2 cores
07:39<Eddi|zuHause>temporary overclocking!
07:39<bartavelle>cloud computing is now !
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>so... how can i hijack the seti@home network to do my video processing? :p
07:41*fjb sees a lot of noncomputing clouds at the sky.
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: just that you are incapable of seeing the computation doesn't mean there's no computing going on
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>after all, they could be busy trying to calculate The Question
07:44<TrueBrain>[13:37] <bartavelle> not to be taken too seriously (but it is true) <- best quote ever
07:44<@Rubidium>the 'real' question is whether the computer for that calculation would scale Moore-ian
07:44<bartavelle>;)
07:44<TrueBrain>(it wasn't a compliment)
07:44<bartavelle>well this is what happens when trolling
07:44<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I already know the answer ;)
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: exactly ;)
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07:46<@Rubidium>because then those 7.5 million years would be more like 50 years
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: or they already considered that in their estimate...
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08:05<@peter1138>hmm, so there's possibly a fuse solution...
08:08<Noldo_>so it seems
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08:36<blathijs>peter1138: Yeah, because everyone knows the kernel runs in kernel^Wturbo mode!!
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09:07<@Belugas>yello
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... does PBI not change arctic gold mine/bank? or is there a special arctic PBI that i must load?
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09:12<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to successfully have hacked alpinew.grf to skip the industry part, but how do i make the houses accept food?
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09:25<@peter1138>hmm, depots and tunnels
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09:29<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Force them by law.
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>station-like depots and bendy tunnels!
09:30<@Belugas>bendy stinky
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>ieh!
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10:18<@Belugas>+ return begin <= check && check <= end; <-- for me, this is so strange to read...
10:20<@peter1138>:D
10:20<Noldo_>why check needs to before both?
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10:21<@Belugas>it's not that, Noldo_... it's the begin end stuff... Pascal keywords in C syntax
10:22*Belugas goes o_O
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10:53<Katje>can anyone explain how water towers work ?
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>they need to be built on top of a house
10:56<@peter1138>obviously
10:56<@Belugas>exactly like the banks
10:57<@Belugas>in fact, they have quite a lot in common...
11:00<planetmaker>Nekomaster is such an idiot
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>how did you get to this sudden conclusion?
11:02<planetmaker>Let's rather say: he recently strongly emphasised that impression yet another time
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11:07<fjb>You can always learn something by reading the wiki: http://wiki.openttd.org/Airline_Route_Management_Case_Study_A
11:07<@Belugas>i need to repeat something i said before : he is NOT representative of the Canadian population
11:07<@Belugas>at all!
11:07<@Belugas>(taking 'bout neko)
11:08<fjb>Nobody is useless. He can always serve as a bad example.
11:08<planetmaker>hehe
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11:51<Wheatbix>{just a random question would there be able to get some way to build subways or something} (Like stations built in tunnels)
11:53<@Rubidium>as in eventually or as in now?
11:53<Wheatbix>eventualy (i dont think there is anyway now)
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11:54<@Rubidium>then the answer is possibly
11:54<Wheatbix>sry i am fairly new to the whole open TTD thing (i am a long time fan of TTD though and love what yous are doing here)
11:54-!-bartavelle is now known as bartaway
11:55<Wheatbix>that would be great if there could be subways (ishall look foward to hopefully seeing it oneday)
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12:05<fjb>Using just a "." is easier than using "{" and "}" etc..
12:05<fjb>At least it is way easier to read.
12:09<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18430 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (chars.nfo chars.pcx openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: some missing latin-ish characters from the OpenGFX set so we get less people complain about the OS chosing an unreadable font
12:09<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18431 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Add: some missing latin-ish characters from the OpenGFX set so we get less people complain about the OS chosing an unreadable font
12:10<@peter1138>heh
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12:36<Eddi|zuHause>why does the second not reference the first? [as in "forward port: r18430" or something]
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12:58<Chrill>people here speak German, yes?
12:58<Sacro>there are real live germans in here
12:58<Sacro>from Germany
12:59<@Belugas>some can speak germans, but none do it in this channel publicly
12:59<@Belugas>apart when singing, which is not speaking...
12:59<@Rubidium>if speaking German is the same as saying German... maybe
12:59*Sacro nudges Eddi|zuHause
12:59<Chrill>well, I would need some quick assistance for a friend with her homework in German
12:59<Chrill>very basic stuff
13:00<@Belugas>that is cheating!!
13:00<Chrill>it is not
13:00*Eddi|zuHause generally does not react well on nudging
13:00<Chrill>they're told to look the translations up online
13:00*planetmaker neither
13:00<Chrill>IRC is online :D
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>so. what's the question anyway?
13:00<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: aww :( bitte?
13:00<Chrill>Well, there are a few setences I'd like to find a decent translation to
13:01<Chrill>it's about sporting and activities
13:01<Chrill>so for example "What do you do in your spare time?"
13:01<fjb>Try: http://dict.leo.org/
13:01*planetmaker is also off to the Christmas market - eating "Grünkohl und Bregenwurst" and having a few cups of hot, spiced wine and bowl
13:01<Chrill>"What are you interests?" / "Why do you like your interests?"
13:01<Hirundo>Add "Where can I find google translator?" to that list
13:01<Chrill>Google Translator is quite crap at times
13:02<fjb>Google translator is not worth a look.
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>so "Ich möchte diesen Teppich nicht kaufen" will generally get you a beer ;)
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>Chrill: so is the question now "what are the translations" or "where can i find the translations"?
13:03<frosch123>what's the point of looking up translations online?
13:03<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: But only if you are Japanese.
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13:04<frosch123>weird homework
13:04<Chrill>Eddi|zuHause, if someone would know the translations, I'd be very grateful if one could translate them for me
13:04<Chrill>I've tried Google Translator but it doesn't really cut it, now does it?
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>what does google translator say?
13:04<@Rubidium>404?
13:05<TinoDidriksen>It's fine for reading text. You can usually make out the sense of things.
13:05<Chrill>Warum mögen Sie Ihre Interessen?
13:05<Chrill>What is it you like with your interests
13:05<Chrill>gave me that
13:05<TinoDidriksen>Seems fair...
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>that's fairly accurate
13:05<Chrill>Oh, then thank you :)
13:06<TinoDidriksen>A bit odd to ask what you like about your interests in such a general fashion...
13:06<Chrill>they're stuyding German and the test they have tomorrow is all about spare time activites and hobbies and interests
13:07<TinoDidriksen>Ah, so school conversations...they're never quite right.
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>TinoDidriksen: well, that was fairly obvious ;)
13:07<Chrill>true that, tiaz
13:07<Chrill>TinoDidriksen*
13:08<Chrill>but then again, I've built all my English knowledge from scratch through school :P
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13:10<mib_440n3j>wii!
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>a person with no nick!
13:11*Eddi|zuHause is scared of these people
13:11<mib_440n3j>oh noes!
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13:12<@Rubidium>101 uses for a wee on a wii?
13:15<mib_440n3j>nope thERE are not that many
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18432 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
13:45<fjb>We are having strange guests today...
13:46<@peter1138>on noes!
13:46<@peter1138>*oh
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13:50<Prof_Frink>On nose!
13:50<Alberth>should I leave again?
13:51<@Rubidium>Alberth: yes, just before going to bed though :)
13:52<Alberth>oh, ok
13:53*fjb wasn't talking about Alberth.
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14:16<SineDeviance>hey all
14:16<Chrill>Google Translator failed to translate this for me, would anyone else possibly know the German translation? "Where does your spare time activitites take place?"
14:16<SineDeviance>i'm just curious... is there any advantage to using electric signals over semaphore?
14:17<Alberth>they look different
14:17<SineDeviance>and thats all?
14:17<Alberth>yep
14:17<SineDeviance>okeis. thanks :D
14:18<Alberth>there are probably a few additional NewGRF files with signal graphics if you get bored of the standard ones
14:18<SineDeviance>yeah i'm already using the combined north american signals
14:19<Sacro>Chrill: Wo bist dien whatever?
14:19<Sacro>Wo bist i think is where is
14:20<Chrill>Wo bist dien spare time activites? :p
14:20<Sacro>oh perhaps
14:20<Sacro>Wie gehen
14:20<frosch123>Wo finden Deine/Ihre Freizeitaktivitäten statt
14:20<Sacro>:\
14:20<Sacro>not done german in 9 years
14:20<Chrill>thank you, frosch123 :)
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>Chrill: what kind of german course
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>is this, that it gives no hints about how to translate stuff?
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, to correctly translate into a foreign language you need a big active vocabulary and excellent knowledge of grammar
14:23<frosch123>yeah, lots of questions with no answer :p
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>it's one of the most difficult tasks at all
14:23<Sacro>german is evil
14:23<SineDeviance>okay i have one more question... how do i disable gridlines?
14:23<Chrill>Eddi|zuHause, the teacher has given them a test on subjects not in the book
14:23<Chrill>nor have these things been discussed in class
14:23*Sacro has a tatoo that says "The Bart, The"
14:24<Chrill>so they're more or less fucked and I'm trying to help in whatever way I can
14:24<Chrill>they're supposed to sit about and talk with each other in grammatically correct German for 30 minutes tomorrow
14:24<Chrill>and they've studied German an hour a week since August 2009
14:24<Chrill>..great teacher eh?
14:25<frosch123>but then you also need answers, right? or does only one ask, and the others have to answer?
14:25<Chrill>well, yes
14:26<Chrill>they need answers too
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, alright, we did have to make descriptions about ourselves in english after half a year of learning
14:26<Chrill>but I think Google Translator helped them on "I like to ***"
14:26<Chrill>"I like to swim/walk/run/play football"
14:26<Chrill>or whatever
14:26<frosch123>he, true :)
14:26<Chrill>she's only sending questions my way that she cannot find out herself :P
14:27-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db02f57.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann]
14:29<Sacro>Chrill: Mein Luftkissenfahrzeug ist voller Aale
14:29<Sacro>you need that phrase
14:29<Chrill>Luftkissenfahrzeug
14:29<Chrill>Air.. Pee.. Vehicle
14:29<Chrill>Airship? :D
14:29<Sacro>sort of
14:29<Chrill>also, she sends thanks to you all for the help
14:30<Sacro>Chrill: Min svävare är full med ål
14:30<Chrill>I lold
14:30<Chrill>My hovercraft is full of eels
14:30<Sacro>Yes
14:30<Sacro>learn it
14:30<Sacro>it's a useful phrase
14:30<Chrill>Vital phrase
14:30<Chrill>hey Sacro, Immah teach you some Swedish
14:31<Sacro>also Ich bin kein Mitglied dieser Konferenz, dennoch möchte ich einen Pinguin.
14:31<Chrill>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66fULfwb2X4
14:31<Chrill>here
14:31<Chrill>do it
14:31<Chrill>skip the first 20 or so seconds
14:36<Sacro>Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher.
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14:50<fjb>Chrill: http://dict.leo.org/ will really help you.
14:51<fjb>Sacro: Wenn Fliegen hinter Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen hinter Fliegen her.
14:51<Sacro>yes
14:53<fjb>Sacro: Try: Brautkleid bleibt Brautkleid und Blaukraut bleibt Blaukraut.
14:53<Sacro>I don't speak dutch
14:54<fjb>That is German. :-)
14:54<blathijs>I was about to complain about that. :-p
14:54<frosch123>what wood would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood
14:55*Sacro can offend many people at once
14:55<fjb>We know.
14:55<Sacro>like calling the norwegian girl at uni dutch/swedish/danish
14:56<fjb>We always knew you have to learn lots about girls.
14:56<Sacro>yes :(
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14:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: frosch * r18433 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Show different texts in town GUI when the town does not need food the whole year to grow.
15:06<@Belugas>yeah... too much to learn about girls. Better start learning 'bout women instead...
15:06<fjb>They will be women till Sacro learned...
15:09<SineDeviance>KenjiE20, ping
15:09<KenjiE20>o/
15:09<SineDeviance>heya
15:09<SineDeviance>long time no see
15:09<SineDeviance>oh, right
15:09-!-SineDeviance is now known as DarkED
15:09<KenjiE20>quite
15:09<DarkED>heh
15:10<DarkED>how you been?
15:11<KenjiE20>not bad
15:11<KenjiE20>you?
15:11<DarkED>im great
15:11<DarkED>i'm playing openttd again, obviously
15:12<KenjiE20>so I saw
15:12<DarkED>yeah
15:12<DarkED>about that
15:12<DarkED>i was wondering if you still play online?
15:12<DarkED>i kinda miss those games
15:12<KenjiE20>yup, not peak atm though
15:12<DarkED>what's not peak? the community
15:12<DarkED>?
15:12<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18434 /trunk/src/currency.cpp: -Change [FS#565]: use z?\197?\130 instead of zl for the Polish Zloty.
15:13<KenjiE20>as in time spent playing isn't at peak
15:13<DarkED>ah
15:13<DarkED>well yeah, i get that
15:13<DarkED>i cant play as much either
15:13<DarkED>still it gets boring playing alone
15:13<DarkED>i was thinking about running a server again
15:15-!-tokai [~tokai@p5B2B182D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:15<DarkED>huh... the ETG channel is still there
15:16<DarkED>i had no idea
15:16<KenjiE20>heh yea
15:16<DarkED>yeah dont go to ETG much anymore
15:17<KenjiE20>I noticed :P
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15:18<@Belugas>Excessively Tedious Game
15:18<DarkED>lol
15:18<@Belugas>Electronic Tempo Generator
15:18<DarkED>no enter the game
15:19<@Belugas>Evil Tempted Girl
15:19<DarkED>lol
15:19<@Belugas>Everywhere They Grind
15:19<DarkED>http://flamescape.com/blog/wp-content/2009/01/openttd_full.jpg
15:19<DarkED>if only
15:20<KenjiE20>heh, that pic's like what? 2/3 year old now :)
15:21<DarkED>january 2009
15:21<KenjiE20>still, t'be nice
15:21<KenjiE20>that's just when it was uploaded to wpress
15:22<KenjiE20>pretty cure I'd seen it previous to that
15:22<KenjiE20>sure*
15:42<frosch123>iirc it is by richk
15:43<frosch123>there is some topic about fake screenshots somewhere on the forums
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15:56<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18435 /trunk/src/roadveh_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18136): articulated road vehicles weren't properly drawn in the vehicle list/details windows
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16:15<sparr>there's no inherent reason you couldn't replace the rendering engine of openttd with something fully 3d, textured, etc. it would probably only take a few dozen hours of coding... and thousands of hours of producing models and artwork
16:17*frosch123 hopes he only forgot the quotes
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16:20<@Rubidium>so do I :)
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16:21<sparr>who forgot what quotes?
16:21<planetmaker>rofl
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16:28<+glx>sparr: feel free to code it :)
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: "one hour of coding" costs approximately 100€, and with "coding" you still get no models and textures...
16:31<planetmaker>hm... I still didn't quite understand why a static newgrf cannot decide upon sprites via an action2 depending upon the loading state.
16:31<Xaroth>sparr: define 'few dozen'
16:32<planetmaker>Problem is, if another newgrf overrides the original sprite via actionA or alike?
16:32<Xaroth>and does that include doing the 'should-do' documents like use case, functional design and the sorts
16:32<@Rubidium>not to mention
16:32<@Rubidium>a) catenary
16:32<planetmaker>But that's something I also already do, if I add a climate dependence via a 7/9 conditional inclusion
16:32<@Rubidium>b) bridges
16:32<@Rubidium>c) tunnels
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16:35<frosch123>planetmaker: the is a hell lot that is triggered by action3
16:37<planetmaker>I know I asked it before... can you give me an example which breaks? :-)
16:37<frosch123>action3 triggeres the vehicle being associated to a certain grf
16:37<planetmaker>probably a newgrf disabling it?
16:37<planetmaker>oh... ok. I disable disabling it then?
16:38<frosch123>of course it is possible to work all around that and check everywhere if a static grf is involved, but ... well .. a lot is possible
16:39<planetmaker>well, yeah. I don't want to put anything on any newgrf author. OpenGFX has to know and deal with that and all contingencies
16:39<frosch123>and then all that stuff inside the action123 chain, like randomactions, callbacks, ...
16:40<planetmaker>well. I don't want random stuff. I just want: if loaded, sprite 1, otherwise sprite 2
16:40<planetmaker>nothing fancy, you know :-)
16:40<planetmaker>no game mechanic changes
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16:43<planetmaker>I basically wonder: where do static grfs break - if OpenTTD produces desyncs, if only game state differences (as opposed to graphical differences) are important
16:48<frosch123>planetmaker: problem is that they influence other grfs
16:50<frosch123>currently a action3 triggeres the vehicle to be reserved for the newgrf defining the action3 (engine override manager), and it also triggers all those "global" properties to only apply locally
16:50<frosch123>then there is stuff like livery overrides, which cause other action3 to be called only in some cases, ....
16:51<frosch123>grfs reading the grfid of another vehicle
16:51<frosch123>grfs enabling/disabling callbacks, custom graphics, ....
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16:52<frosch123>you can continue infinitely. fact is, currently the rules for "static" newgrfs are quite simple, and it adds a totally new complexity to add less-simple actions
16:52<planetmaker>ok... Let's assume a grf which wants to add some callbacks to a (default) wagon. That would then fail, if I have already in my static newgrf some action3/2/1 attached to it - or rather I'd have that wagon then twice, right?
16:53<planetmaker>as it'd then make the wagon local to both?
16:53<frosch123>that already depends on the "multiple newgrf" setting
16:53<planetmaker>assuming engine pool on.
16:53<planetmaker>in above argument I made with my last two statements
16:53<frosch123>likely you would have to load the static newgrf last, and only apply the action3 if there is no other action3 present already
16:55<andythenorth>hi hi
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17:04<fjb>Moin andythenorth
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17:08<planetmaker>thanks yet another time, frosch123 :-) I guess I'll now have to sleep over it :-)
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17:09<fjb>My industry town grows a lot waste collection points (compared to the number of houses). But I would not want to live there anyway.
17:09<@Belugas>home, here we go :)
17:09<@Belugas>bighht all
17:09<Brianetta>bighht
17:10<planetmaker>nighty nigh
17:10<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:10<fjb>Night Belugas
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17:14<Terkhen>good night Belugas
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17:42<Sacro>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-A-to-4-PIN-FIREWIRE-IEEE-1394-DIGITAL-CABLE-LEAD_W0QQitemZ290369783730QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item439b6347b2#ht_1304wt_941
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>question: has anybody ever tried alpine climate with opengfx?
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>alpine grf doesn't seem to contain the actual houses, only the snowy roofs
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17:50<sparr>Eddi|zuHause: nothing about your statement alters mine...
17:51<sparr>Xaroth: 30-40 hours, maybe?
17:51<sparr>assuming a coder already familiar with the openttd graphics system, and with a tile-based 3d rendering engine
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17:52<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: so when can we expect your 3000-4000 euro?
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17:52<sparr>why would you think I want or am able to fund it?
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, "somebody" has to...
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17:52<sparr>why do they have to?
17:53<sparr>the 2d graphics are plenty for most players and devs, i would think, otherwise someone would have done it already
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: so what do you actually want?
17:54<sparr>I am not sure what you mean
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18:04<Terkhen>lol
18:04<Terkhen>good night
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18:08<@Rubidium>sparr: it's just that you came with a statement about 2 hours ago that isn't a reply to anybody and doesn't make any sense at all
18:12<Xaroth>sparr: hah, 1 workweek worth of hours? or 1 day for 5 people?
18:12<Xaroth>try a few weeks for multiple people
18:12<Xaroth>8 hours a day
18:12<Xaroth>100 quid an hour
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>i actually do want to see a 300loc patch for 3d-support ;)
18:20*SmatZ gives Eddi|zuHause a 'k'
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>lines of kode?
18:21<SmatZ>umm...
18:21<SmatZ>yes, why not :-p
18:21<@Rubidium>and only when it's written for KDE :)
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>only in kde projects ;)
18:22<SmatZ>hehe
18:25<sparr>Rubidium: I was replying to the photo-realistic fake screenshot
18:26<@Rubidium>even then a few dozen hours is quite off based on the number of people that already tried to do so and where we never heard of again
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>afair there's an opengl-blitter somewhere, but it has nothing to do with actual 3d support
18:32<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18436 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3357]: unselect an AI in the AI Settings window when it falls out of the range of active AIs
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause>usability request: when clicking on "new town" in the scenario editor, unfocus the town name edit box
18:34<PeterT>is it possible to delete a statue built in honor of the company?
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: the query tool will tell you
18:35<PeterT>Thanks
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>(or shift+dynamite)
18:36<SmatZ>or actually trying to do so :-p
18:36<SmatZ>(didn't Belugas want to do something with that? :)
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46196 <-- well, obviously someone tried ;)
18:37<SmatZ>:-D
18:37<PeterT>Hehe :)
18:37<PeterT>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46196&p=838790#p838790
18:37<SmatZ>now that's funny
18:37<SmatZ>PeterT asking here so he can aswer the question at tt-forums :-D
18:38<PeterT>Hehe
18:38<PeterT>KenjiE20: Wake up, you have some new material to put into your quote book.
18:39<KenjiE20>-_-
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19:08<CIA-4>OpenTTD: smatz * r18437 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix (r16557): background of disabled button in AI GUI wasn't set back to grey after AI bankrupt
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19:41<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18438 /trunk/src/core/math_func.hpp: -Codechange [FS#3337]: introduce a template for Clamp (fonsinchen) and reuse template functions in their non-template counterparts.
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>i don't suppose that has a lot to do with cargodist :p
19:58<fjb_>
19:58<fjb_>Ups
19:59-!-fjb_ is now known as fjb
19:59<@Rubidium>grr...
19:59<@Rubidium>I'd like to vote to add a new forum rule please
20:00-!-JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00<@Rubidium>I propose: 0.a. no utterly annoying people that spam all formers with borderline useful brabble and think they are great. Being such a person causes an instant ban.
20:00<@Rubidium>please... pretty please :)
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>persons starting with p?
20:09<@Rubidium>some of them at least
20:09-!-FauxFaux_ is now known as FauxFaux
20:10*fjb supports Rubidium's vote.
20:11<Chrill>ah, the famous Mr. P
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... someone gravedigged the routemarkers topic...
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>and too many topic titles contain the word "improved", it's awfully confusing ;)
20:13<Chrill>Improved Gravedigging?
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>[but it's good that we at least got away from "NewEverything"
20:15<Chrill>NewGravedigging?
20:16<Chrill>GIRS - Gravedigging Industry Replacement Set
20:16<Chrill>it's the way, nowadays
20:16<Chrill>or, even better
20:16<Chrill>GIRS Industry Replacement Set
20:16<Chrill>tis like saying Salsa sauce for a Spaniard
20:18<@Rubidium>if only Mr. P would dig his own grave...
20:18<fjb>Gravedigging industry sounds interesting. Something for an Egyption scenario.
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>the guild addon had a graveyard "industry" ;)
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's sad that i can't get guild 2 running on my system...
20:20<Chrill>simple thing
20:20<Chrill>OpenGFX is finished, yes?
20:20<Chrill>or more or less, anyway
20:20<Chrill>http://media.openttd.org/media/images/layout/frontpage-teaser-3.jpg <-- these things should be OpenGFX'd
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>Chrill: i don't really see a reason why, but definitely not before a "full" release (bundle) with OpenGFX and OpenSFX is available
20:22<Chrill>Okay
20:22<Chrill>Tis just a suggestion
20:22<Chrill>and there's a clear reason why, the same reason OpenGFX and OpenSFX have been developed
20:23<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'm not the person to decide that anyway ;)
20:23<Chrill>No, tis all down to me
20:24*fjb hands Chrill an h.
20:24<Eddi|zuHause>Chrill: no, it is different. screenshots typically fall into the "fair use" clause of various copyright jurisdiction
20:24<Chrill>Ah
20:25<Chrill>fjb, Chrillh?
20:25*fjb oh noes.
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20:26<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: "Tis" needs no 'h', only an apostrophe for the missing "I"
20:26<Eddi|zuHause>and possibly a space
20:27<fjb>Oh, it meant that.
20:27<@Rubidium>or "iTs" just a slip of the finger
20:27<Chrill>no
20:27<Chrill>tis all meant to be
20:27<Chrill>because I am odd like that
20:28*fjb is unable to properly parse that word.
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21:49<CIA-4>OpenTTD: glx * r18439 /trunk/src/sdl.cpp: -Fix (r15233): forgot to load the symbol from SDL.dll
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21:54<CIA-4>OpenTTD: glx * r18440 /trunk/src/crashlog.cpp: -Fix (r17774): don't try to get SDL version when SDL is not loaded
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22:39<PeterT>Night
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 09 00:00:51 2009