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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-14

---Logopened Mon Dec 14 00:00:05 2009
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02:34<Terkhen>good morning
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02:58<rhaeder>morning :)
03:00<_ln>yes it is
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03:24<rhaeder>again that appalling thing :( I have constructed some tracks nearby a city where I am present with "good" to "outstanding" ratings for my tram stations and now the city authority is appalling :(
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03:59<edeca>rhaeder: Heh, I get that all the time
03:59<edeca>rhaeder: Even with "permissive" in the config
03:59<edeca>rhaeder: Plant some trees and make them happy again :)
03:59<edeca>rhaeder: Or put a bus station in the town before you build rails, that way you can get back to "good" quickly
03:59*edeca wonders if it is a bug
04:00<Noldo>are you sure "some tracks" isn't "big main line with the usual terraforming"
04:00<@Rubidium>probably 'just' removing some houses
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04:01<rhaeder>ok :)
04:03<rhaeder>the trees-trick worked :D
04:03<rhaeder>"bribing" with nature ;)
04:05<weaselboy246>btw try planting alot of trees then destroy them :P
04:05<weaselboy246>then plant more trees
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04:14<edeca>weaselboy246: Don't you loose reputation by destroying them?
04:14<edeca>Noldo: Mm, teraforming
04:15<weaselboy246>yea but less than you earn by planting
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04:32<edeca>weaselboy246: Ta :)
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05:17<planetmaker>The notification e-mails about changes in flyspray issues don't have full links in them anymore:
05:17<planetmaker>More information can be found at the following URL:
05:17<planetmaker> /bugs/task/3368
05:17<@Rubidium>fucking fracking flyspray
05:18<@Rubidium>you fix one thing and break a million others
05:18<@peter1138>hmm?
05:20<planetmaker>must have happened between 7th and 9th of this month
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05:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: odd thing is that I 'only' changed the URL if it was '//' to become http://bugs.openttd.org/
05:26<@Rubidium>which is why it's very odd that it's broken now
05:28<planetmaker>mysterious are the paths of the.... bugs.
05:29<@Rubidium>seems to work again
05:29<edeca>in all their buggy mysteriousness?
05:31<planetmaker>yes, works again. Thanks Rubidium
05:32<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/bounding.png
05:32<@peter1138>^ pom te pom
05:33<@peter1138>i guess i need a varaction for ground type
05:33<@peter1138>it already needs a varaction to choose between open and closed
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05:36<Noldo>peter1138: what are you fidling with?
05:37<@peter1138>railtypes
05:37<@peter1138>and thus, level crossings
05:56<@peter1138>it'll no doubt be slower, mind you
05:56<@peter1138>but only for visible crossings
05:57<@peter1138>6 sprites on a tile instead of 1
05:57<@peter1138>plus varactions instead of a static sprite id
06:00<edeca>how "slow" is "slow"?
06:00<edeca>it runs perfectly well on my machine ;)
06:00<Noldo>different 'it'
06:01<edeca>the game, as is now.
06:01<@peter1138>i've never benchmarked it
06:04<edeca>what am i missing if i only ever get "far end" orders with stations using the nightly?
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06:18<Eddi|zuHause>you can click on them
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>to change it to "middle" or "near end"
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>and you can set an option for the default value in the advanced settings
06:19<edeca>Ah, I assumed it was based on where I clicked on the station.
06:19<edeca>But then that wouldn't work, as near/far could be either end
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06:54<planetmaker>http://xkcd.com/675/ <-- hehe. I like the one today :-) (And note the mouse-over text ;-) )
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>so when do you NOT like it? :p
06:56<weaselboy246>lol
06:56<planetmaker>:-P
06:58<weaselboy246>one before that is funny too.
06:58*peter1138 wonders what's left with railtypes
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06:58<@peter1138>oh yes, depots and tunnels
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: a varaction2 that can check the 4 neighbouring tiles?
06:59<@peter1138>for what?
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>(like the elrail-catenary code does)
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>for example: chose on which side to draw the 3rd rail
07:00<Eddi|zuHause>or more insane: smoother looking curves ;)
07:02<@peter1138>yuck :p
07:02<weaselboy246>smoother curves? as in larger than 1 tile turn? think we need more sprites for that to look decent
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, my point is that it's not some revolutionary new concept, the code already does it, so it might as well be opened to newgrf
07:03<Eddi|zuHause>and then let the grf authors figure out how to abuse it
07:03<@peter1138>not quite the same :p
07:04<weaselboy246>http://xkcd.com/667/ man... i feared that skifree monster as a child
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what a skifree monster is...
07:05<weaselboy246>SkiFree, from microsoft entertainment pack
07:06<Eddi|zuHause>and you don't have to tell us about all the other 673 comics that you read
07:06<weaselboy246>once you get too far down monster, an abominal snowman jumps out and eats you
07:06<weaselboy246>believe me, i've seen the all lol
07:06<weaselboy246>*them
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07:07<@peter1138>so has everyone
07:18<edeca>welcome to the internet :)
07:18<edeca>exits are here -> here <- and here ^
07:18<edeca>peter1138: are the railtypes something which will end up in trunk?
07:19<edeca>forgive my ignorance, i'm not sure what they do
07:20<planetmaker>they allow to define rail types as you can define trains or vehicles
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: ah, before i forget it, there should be a way to draw only the front (or only back) half of the level crossing (for adjacent level crossings to leave out the "middle")
07:20<edeca>so they aren't limited to the 4 that are in game, but by whatever newgrf authors decide?
07:21<edeca>so if you load narrowgauge.grf you get a nice new rail type?
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: they'll be limited to 16
07:21<edeca>not dreadful, why would you need more than that?
07:21*edeca whips up hornby.grf
07:22<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/sneak2.png < old
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: you get to 16 quite easily, if you factor in maximum speed/axle weight, and combinations of catenary and 3rd rail
07:22<edeca>peter1138: third rail on the lowest?
07:22<@peter1138>two new railtypes there
07:22<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: ah fair enough
07:23<@peter1138>third rail, and third rail with catenary
07:23<edeca>looking good :)
07:23<@Rubidium>looking decently old
07:23<edeca>is it likely to get into trunk soon/sometime/never?
07:23<@peter1138>Sep 2008 :D
07:23<edeca>ah.
07:23*edeca shuts up
07:24<weaselboy246>wasn't that on a grf?
07:24<@Rubidium>edeca: you know you're talking to peter 'oh, I have a patch for that' n/1138?
07:24<edeca>Rubidium: no, i didn't
07:24<planetmaker>hehe
07:24<edeca>but that's pretty awesome.
07:24*edeca makes peter1138 a coffee
07:26<@peter1138>hmm, i should update the metro grf
07:26<@peter1138>if i can find it
07:26<@peter1138>oh, it's there
07:26<planetmaker>there's one on bananas... but I doubt you mean it...
07:26<planetmaker>nvm
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't understand it, the regular coordinate translation is "(y << MapLogX()) + x", in tgp.cpp the translation "x + y * dim_x" is used. to me they look the same but the results i get when using the "TileAddByDiagDir" functions don't support that...
07:28<edeca>hrm, actually, i did see the metro trains (i.e. london tube trains) in the 2cc set I think
07:28<edeca>i didn't quite know how they worked or what railtype they were for
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: it's a monorail replacement, afair
07:28<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Cool. To be honest, tube trains that run above ground seem odd.
07:28<edeca>But more useful than monorail IMO
07:29<@peter1138>hmm, this it the original metro :s
07:29<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it should be the same, unless dim_x is incorrect
07:29<@peter1138>hmm
07:29<planetmaker>edeca, yes, the 2ccTrainSet is designed to be used with the metrorails newgrf - which replaces monorail by some other kind of rail
07:29<@peter1138>no it's not
07:30<@peter1138>it's the original non-overlay format
07:30<@peter1138>damn
07:30<@peter1138>but i'm sure i did it
07:30<edeca>planetmaker: Oops, I'd better load that then :)
07:30<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/sneak3.png
07:30<@peter1138>yeah, i did
07:30*peter1138 wonders where that went
07:30<planetmaker>edeca, it's just optics. But it sure looks better to have metro trains run on rails than monorail.
07:31<edeca>planetmaker: thank you
07:31<planetmaker>no worries. Though it shows that readmes are not read :-(
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>but the tile "afb (59, 43): 4.8125004 3-> abb" in the heightmap ends up as "River Tile: ad0 (16, 43) 4" in the map... :(
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>where 16 = 59-43
07:33<@Rubidium>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M2-Ouchy-train-arrive%2Btrack.jpg <- looks more like an inverted monorail :)
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>so somewhere the address translation goes wrong...
07:34<edeca>planetmaker: No, sadly they aren't. There are too many, too out of date etc. I know that means I'm a whiny little sod :)
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>and i can't find it
07:34-!-bartaway is now known as bartavelle
07:34<edeca>planetmaker: The new content management system is excellent though. If package "hints" could be given (i.e. you loaded A which recommends B) that would rock
07:34<@peter1138>Rubidium, "ouchy train" ?
07:34<bartavelle>yo
07:35<@peter1138>(is that the french tyre system?)
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that's the rubber-tyre metro?
07:35<edeca>Hi bartavelle
07:35<@Rubidium>yup
07:35<edeca>They have that in San Francisco, really weird
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07:35<@peter1138>ah, ouchy is the station name, hehe
07:35<@peter1138>must be french :)
07:36<bartavelle>sounds like it
07:36<@Rubidium>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ST_SN5000_20061102_001.jpg <- that looks even more monorail-ish
07:37<@peter1138>that tunnel is excessively large
07:37<@peter1138>hmm, and it's not a tunnel anyway
07:37<@peter1138>too much daylight on it
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07:39<rucinter>hello
07:39<rucinter>OpenTTD (latest version) is not running on MacOS 10.6 Snow Leopard?
07:39<@Rubidium>hmm, I've been even on that metro
07:40<bartavelle>ouchy turns out to be swiss
07:40<planetmaker>edeca, currently I can only declare forced dependencies. And I'm not sure whether it works for newgrf.
07:40<edeca>planetmaker: Forced are for AIs that require certain backend things?
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07:41<edeca>planetmaker: e.g. a directed graph or whatever
07:41<@Rubidium>rucinter: it's not officially supported. Some people reported that it works, others reported that it doesn't work... so the answer is: I don't know
07:41<rucinter>ok, will try it on my own
07:41<rucinter>thanks
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>bartavelle: apparently they used to have a rack railway, so the rubber tyres seem to be necessary for the increased traction
07:43<bartavelle>would make sense
07:43<planetmaker>edeca, yes. AIs can declare dependencies on libraries and stuff
07:44<edeca>planetmaker: Makes sense
07:44<planetmaker>newgrf don't need that usually.
07:44<@Rubidium>but they can
07:44<edeca>I tried FIRS at the weekend too, I quite liked it
07:44<planetmaker>:-) good to know
07:45<planetmaker>^ both
07:45<edeca>I think it was peter1138 who said he found it excessive. I thought it was easier than ECS
07:46<planetmaker>edeca, if you find problems with FIRS and things which need tweaking, please report them in the corresponding thread in the tt-forums
07:46<@peter1138>that may be true... ECS is excess too...
07:46<planetmaker>he... :-)
07:46<@peter1138>+ive
07:47<planetmaker>I thought already to maybe add a parameter to allow a FIRS light or alike
07:47<planetmaker>less different industries
07:47<@peter1138>but i get confused when i try to play toyland, so...
07:47<planetmaker>less cargo types
07:49<edeca>peter1138: I've loaded toyland once and given up..
07:49<weaselboy246>thought FIRS was going to be control with dates?
07:49<edeca>planetmaker: Does FIRS have stockpiles like some of the other industries?
07:49<edeca>weaselboy246: That could be clever. No plastic packaging until 1970 or such
07:50<Eddi|zuHause>edeca: there's plenty of discussion on that, the decision was afair to not have stockpile limits
07:50<edeca>Eddi|zuHause: Cool. I find them annoying, but that's just me :)
07:51<weaselboy246>doesn't really bother me, except for requiring coal at steel mill :P
07:52<planetmaker>yes. There won't be limits, I think
07:53<edeca>planetmaker: What about industry closure? ECS can be a bit aggressive there
07:53<Eddi|zuHause>there will be stockpiles though, so if you provide more cargo than the industry can handle, you will not get secondary goods out of that delivery
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>ah... i think i found the reason... the tgp heightmap is 1 tile larger...
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>featurette-request: when river tiles are next to void tiles, they should show as if the void tile was a water tile
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. they should be "open" towards that tile
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>so it looks like the river flows into (or out of) the map
08:10<@Rubidium>and then get bug reports that you can't place a buoy there?
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>so i need to build my own address translation routines
08:11<Terkhen>there is a similar problem with jungle tiles
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: what? no, not display the void tile, change the display of the river tile
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08:12<Terkhen>when you place jungle next to the end of the map, the border of the jungle tile appears as if the void tile was desert
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: currently, if you place a river tile near the map edge, it shows as "closed", i.e there's a small strip of land between the river and the map edge
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>it should rather display as "open"
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>as if the river continues outside the map
08:19<@peter1138>but it doesn't ;)
08:19<Noldo>:P
08:23<weaselboy246>TTD is a flat earth. there is no outside map :)
08:25<Noldo>herecy!
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08:34<Eddi|zuHause>so... the tile translation is better now, so next problem, why are they flowing uphill?
08:36<@Belugas>haaa... that is a feature i encoded myself, Eddi|zuHause : a touch of un-realism :D
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08:36<@Belugas>hello all
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08:40<rhaeder>all authorities are complaining about noise when I want to construct an international or intercontinental airport :(
08:40<rhaeder>can I somewhere reduce the noise level they complain, or is that cheating?
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's a difficulty setting
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>on permissive they complain less
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>also, larger cities complain less
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>and further away from the city center they complain less
08:41<rhaeder>ok :)
08:43<@peter1138>hm
08:45<rhaeder>already permissive :(
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>there's also a console setting that changes the effect of permissive
08:54<@Belugas>further away, the less noise..
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>blärgs
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/river1.png
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm almost there
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>(if it ever finishes uploading)
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09:05<Eddi|zuHause>they tend to sink in the tiniest of valleys, and i need to sort out the terraforming to avoid the invalid slopes
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09:11<@Belugas>damned... looking at the code for ten minutes, just to find out i was looking at the wrong library :S
09:11<@Belugas>stupid me
09:13<planetmaker>that image: your new patch, Eddi|zuHause ?
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
09:13<planetmaker>nice :-)
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09:39<@peter1138>you need a grf ;)
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i know, but as long as i don't sort out the slopes, the drawing code crashes when i load a river grf
09:41<@Rubidium>what about *if* you reach a sloped tile terraform it down so it's a slope you can work with
09:41<@Rubidium>you only need to do that with one side
09:41<@peter1138>oh, well, i don't know what you're doin
09:41<@peter1138>+g
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yeah, i have an idea how to do it
09:42<@Rubidium>although... there's at least one case were that wouldn't work :(
09:43<@Rubidium>hmm, even more
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09:43<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'll go backwards from the sink/merge
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>but not now...
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>need a pause
09:44<@Rubidium>the location where you can't terraform is the biggest problem
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09:45<Eddi|zuHause>i have an address translation crash somewhere near the map edge...
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09:46<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/river_problem.png <- that case is going to be very nasty
09:47<@Rubidium>if foundations aren't allowed, or the houses are unmovables
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>the houses are placed later
09:48<@Rubidium>oh, then it's almost trivial
09:48<@Rubidium>if terraforming down doesn't work, terraform up :)
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>but the problem is generally those zick-zack rivers, they would have to be completely flat
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>it'd be way easier to just allow the other slopes ;)
09:51<@Rubidium>that'd certainly look odd in some cases, e.g. the top left right
09:51<@Rubidium>s/right/river/
09:52<@Belugas>lol -> Check Online Content. "can u (...) plz (...) give me the download link"
09:52<@Belugas>for crying out loud!!
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09:52<@Belugas>what's wrong with kids today??? There is a shortage of brains nowaday???
09:53<@Rubidium>shortage of rights to have broadband at home
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09:57<Eddi|zuHause>what's an "U Postleitzahl"?
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10:02<@Rubidium>and undergroup postal code?
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10:11<@Belugas>:)
10:14<@peter1138>bah, i really ought to get my organ working
10:17<@Belugas>wy? it's broken?
10:17<Goulp>plug and play ?
10:19<@peter1138>oops, wrong channel
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10:53<deghosty> organ?
10:53<deghosty>like liver?
10:59<@Belugas>hehehe
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13:20<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18496 /trunk/os/windows/installer/ (4 files): -Codechange: some changes to the installer to make it more usable, easier to maintain and more up-to-date
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18497 /trunk/src/lang/ (hebrew.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt):
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hebrew - 1 changes by dnd_man
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 23 changes by Zhygometh
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13:59<frosch123>hmm, internet is quite slow today except irc :p
14:02-!-elmz [~quassel@dhcp-103-143.idi.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:03*Luukland puts chair in relax mode
14:04*Belugas puts coffee in express mode
14:04<Luukland>Ahhh, Belugas also knows how to live ^^
14:04<@Belugas>DROP IN, YOU SLUG!!! COME ON!!! DROP
14:04<frosch123>Luukland: no, he knows how to work
14:05<frosch123>sorry :)
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14:11<@Belugas>a ccokie for frosch123!
14:12<Prof_Frink>A cockie? Actually, I don't want to know.
14:12<@Rubidium>bah.. I already wanted to asked how he mixed up the c and o
14:12<@Belugas>:S
14:13*Belugas blames his guitar nails
14:13<frosch123>sounds like a female colleague saying: "sorry, i need to crawl under your desk again"
14:13<@Belugas><nails of guitarist>
14:13<@Belugas>lol
14:13<Luukland>some people must be really depressed because of the cold weather
14:13<@Rubidium>oh, could've quoted James May too
14:14<frosch123>(one colleague said that today, when she needed to fix the connectors of the computer again)
14:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18498 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_cmd.cpp vehicle_func.h vehicle_gui.cpp):
14:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2616]: cloning of vehicles could create vehicles with invalid cargo sub
14:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: types for the build year of the vehicle. Fall back to another cargo sub type
14:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: with the exact same name, otherwise fallback to cargo sub type 0.
14:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18499 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp:
14:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Fix/Change/Feature [FS#3159]: autoreplace and autorenew always reset their
14:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: cargo sub type to 0. Now find a sub cargo type with the exact same name and use
14:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: that, otherwise fallback to 0. So cargo sub types can be maintained via
14:19<CIA-4>OpenTTD: autoreplace *if* the new vehicle supports the same cargo sub type.
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14:41<Eddi|zuHause>"Fix/Change/Feature" <- wonderful ;)
14:41<@peter1138>"fixed some bugs"
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14:48<t>hello. i have found out, that opengfx is in a pretty good shape. How can i configure it so it will be system-wide default for all users on my (debian) system?
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>t: i believe the default one is chosen by alphabetical order
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>of the .obg file
14:50<t>hmhm obg?
14:50<frosch123>t: do you wonder about the path to put ogfx into for global access, or about setting it as default?
14:50<t>both
14:51<t>i want to have free software installation which works for users
14:51<t>(without having to play with config)
14:51<frosch123>put them in e.g. /usr/local/share/games/openttd/data
14:51<t>... i would like to place it on my live cd :)
14:51<frosch123>maybe it also works without "local", but that is the one i use
14:52<t>ic, i am using /usr/share/games/openttd/data
14:52<frosch123>and ottd will use it if there is no other one anyway
14:52<t>i will try, ty
14:52-!-elmz [~elmz@34.84-48-63.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:54<t>woah, works :)
14:54<t>thanks!
14:54<t>do you think you would like to have downloadable live cd with latest openttd?
14:54<t>:)
14:55<frosch123>the problem with a cd is, that you cannot save your games. can you also offer a live-usb-stick? :p
14:56<frosch123>with no window manager and ottd as login shell or so
14:56<t>ca be live usb, yes
14:56<t>can*
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14:57<t>i will try doing it, will contact you later when i will have something :)
14:58<frosch123>well, actually, personally i do not need such a thing :)
14:58<t>it might inspire people to improve (finish) opengfx set and maybe to do something about sounds and music :)
14:58<frosch123>opensfx is finished as well
14:58<t>? never used it, i will have to look
14:58<frosch123>and music has always been stupid anyway
14:58<t>no, the music is the best of its kind
14:58<frosch123>note, opensfx needs nightly, 0.7.x is not sufficient
14:59<t>i was playing ttd too much just because of the music
15:00<t>but well, not weeks without pause lol that would make the music a repeating torture
15:00<t>opensfx is not in online content downloadable from client?
15:02<t> -> evil, needs to improve
15:02<frosch123>it is, but not for 0.7.x
15:02<t>aha... ok
15:03<frosch123>0.7 is more than 8 months old crap :p
15:04<t>:)
15:04<t>works for me hehe
15:05<t>(0.7.3)
15:05<t>so why not 0,8 release?
15:06<frosch123>he, you do not know ottd's release cycle :p
15:07<frosch123>play alpha if you want to
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>what? release cycle? i thought that was an aprils fools joke...
15:10<frosch123>yeah, only fools believe in fixed cycles
15:11<t>my cycle is not fixed :)
15:11<t>i can ride it
15:11<t>and btw fool = customer ? :)
15:14<t>customers are not fools. they only have different value systems, priorities and experiences...
15:14<frosch123>fools can appear in different colours :)
15:14<@Belugas>always... a fool is always a customer
15:14<t>hehehe
15:14<@Belugas>a customer is always a fool
15:14<t>fool -> customer works
15:14<t>customer ! -> fool is imho wrong :)
15:15<andythenorth>is he who works for a fool a bigger fool?
15:15-!-TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:15<andythenorth>who fools the fools?
15:16<frosch123>last week fools were identified by appending numbers to their nickname
15:16<andythenorth>meanwhile.....ta da (fanfare):
15:16<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=46297&p=840265#p840265
15:16<andythenorth>kinda like a MB style thing
15:17<@peter1138>...
15:17<frosch123>why is that not in off-topic?
15:17<andythenorth>he :P
15:17<andythenorth>forthcoming newgrf set
15:17<andythenorth>(or vapourware, depending on if I lose interest)
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what a Rolf Harris is...
15:18<andythenorth>well there won't be one in the set
15:18<@peter1138>ROLF'S CARTOON CLUB, ROLF'S CARTOON CLUB, YOU CAN JOIN TODAY!
15:18<andythenorth>Pikka would get it...
15:19<@peter1138>rolf's more of a british phenomenon
15:20<andythenorth>I saw Rolf live
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15:24<t>hmm opensfx really needs 0,8 it seems
15:24*t is going to try compiling latest
15:25*Sacro reports it
15:27<t>omg i am reported to homeland enslavement office now
15:27-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
15:28*welshdragon reports Sacro
15:28<welshdragon>for indecent exposure
15:28<t>lol
15:28<t>quiet reporting is better than false frienship, right? :)
15:29-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:29<welshdragon>hello Brianetta
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15:44<t>wow i can hear those new sounds :)
15:44<t>they are good
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15:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18500 /branches/0.7/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
15:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
15:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: - Fix: Read after free in case no network connection could be made with the content server (r18493)
15:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIOrder::SkipToOrder did not properly resolve ORDER_CURRENT (r18471)
15:50<CIA-4>OpenTTD: [0.7] -Prepare for 0.7.5-RC1
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15:56<welshdragon>0.7.5 to have OGFX and OSFX?
15:57<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18501 /tags/0.7.5-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.5-RC1
15:58*welshdragon pokes Rubidium
15:59<planetmaker>:-O Another 0.7 release approaching
15:59<planetmaker>welshdragon: not OpenSFX
15:59<welshdragon>:(
15:59<frosch123>stupid tiki cannot create tables with cells spanning multiple columns (except last column)
15:59<planetmaker>it's a trunk feature and will only be in 0.8.x
16:00<frosch123>how shall i fix the newgrf specs then?
16:00<planetmaker>which page, frosch123 ?
16:00<@Rubidium>*Action*Houses*
16:00<frosch123>act 7/9 about \7[gG][gG]?
16:00-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
16:00<frosch123>ok, s/fix/improve/
16:01<frosch123>lol, Rubidium, that is cheating :)
16:02<planetmaker>:-P
16:02<frosch123>(it does not even matter that it is a ancient tiki 1.9.2, even current 4.0 cannot deal with that)
16:03<frosch123>i could insert the table as preformatted text :p
16:05<planetmaker>he :-S
16:07<t>after some playing, todays svn version crashed on me..
16:07<t> Signal: Aborted (6) Message: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 99 of /home/t/src/g/openttd/trunk/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp
16:12<@Rubidium>odd
16:13<@Rubidium>it works fine for me
16:14<@Rubidium>unless... you're missing compat_0.7.nut
16:14<@Rubidium>hmm, even then it doesn't fail that horribly
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16:16<@Rubidium>t: what OS?
16:16*peter1138 grumbles
16:17<@Rubidium>and what language?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>czech, i presume
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16:21<@Rubidium>aha... that explains it
16:25<planetmaker>extra crash for our czech friends?
16:25<@Rubidium>yes, free for them only
16:25<Luukland>cash for Dutch friend needed
16:27<planetmaker>if you've too much cash, rather give it me than waste it, Luukland
16:27<Luukland>I got too little
16:27<Luukland>this project is draining my wallet
16:28<planetmaker>OpenTTD? does'nt sound too expensive
16:28<planetmaker>(except if you count your working hours on it)
16:28<@Rubidium>it is when you're paying people to modify it
16:28<Luukland>xD
16:28<Luukland>Chinese cheap workers
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>those that remember numbers in the basement?
16:31<t>Rubidium: debian sid
16:31<t>czech, right
16:31<t>czech language is easy, maybe even easier than japanese. can i help somehow?
16:32<@Rubidium>it's not the language, it's the translation
16:33<t>hmhm if you know where is the problem, maybe i can help a bit
16:34<@Rubidium>I have the solution already, just need to figure out whether it's the best
16:34<@Rubidium>anyhow, OpenTTD (trunk) in 6 languages is going to break if there's no AI
16:35<@Rubidium>the other 47-or-so will 'just work'
16:35<t>why?
16:35<t>well, getting AI could help me?
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, generally yes, if you want to enable AI you need to download some
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16:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's what the window would tell you, if it wouldn't crash the game
16:36<@Rubidium>would work around the problem, as would setting the language to not one of czech, turkish, greek, catalan, romanian or swedish
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>did the catalans vote for their independence yet?
16:37<t>why is it not included in the game?
16:37<t>at least some
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>t: because they change very fast, so after every (old) installation, one would have to make an "online update" anyway
16:38<t>this could be nice workaround, at least for me :
16:39<@Rubidium>and which ones should we package and which ones not? Would mean that we need to do quality control on the AIs
16:39<t>i mean having some (even old) version by default
16:39<t>ah, i c
16:39<@Rubidium>t: that's the AI it's trying to load when it crashes
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>"Apple users suffer from Stockholm Syndrome" <- lmao ;)
16:41<t>we will all be suffocated by copenhagen syndrome... :(
16:42-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@2002:5ce3:510b:1:31c2:e649:e7d0:5b20] has joined #openttd
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>t: the "Stockholm Syndrome" is when obducted people solidarize with their kidnappers and start to defend their actions
16:43<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I find that a good quote
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>t: apparently a danish company made a study, and apple users use similar arguments when discussing around iphone shortcomings (lack of java/mms and restricted applications)
16:44<t>lol
16:44<t>it can be told about most proprietary systems
16:44<t>and religious cults
16:45*fjb would even have to change the net provider to use an iphone.
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16:46<_ln>Eddi|zuHause: i think that quote applies to most users of any operating system, assuming the user actively chose what OS he wants.
16:47<t>having proprietary system on communication devices is like petting bugs
16:47<_ln>actively = knowingly
16:47<t>_ln: i do not agree. in linux, there are shortcomings, but its a system under your command.
16:47<t>apple/win => you are slave to the system
16:48<_ln>t: see, you are suffering from the syndrome.
16:48<t>lol
16:48<fjb>Yes, use FreeBSd and you eare free!
16:48<t>lolz. maybe GNU Mach, never openbsd
16:48<t>just what works best and gives you freedom
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16:49<t>*bsd is not smart enough :)
16:49<t>(ooh, i see coming flames)
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16:51<_ln>t: *although* you have access to the source, in practice you are quite much limited by what your distribution has decided for you. quite improbable that the average user would start patching any program in the system, despite the source.
16:51<t>_ln: i did that many times
16:51<t>your assumption is not working
16:52<_ln>t: if you knew what to do and you have even some coding skills, you are not the average user.
16:52<t>i WAS average user before coming to linux
16:52<t>you cant be more easily in proprietary world
16:53<t>it has barriers
16:53<_ln>i know, and there is no good operating system at the moment, either free or proprietary.
16:53<t>true
16:54<t>eventually, all brainchips will be from one company (google?). That day we will have all questions answered for us.
16:55-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-211-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:58<_ln>with linux the situation with sounds is not really any better than 10 years ago, which is sad.
16:58-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-211-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:59<t>_ln: it is! its fragmented, but alsa>> oss and jackd for me works well
16:59<fjb>We are google, resistance is futile!
16:59<t>we are from google and we are here to help you.
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17:02<_ln>t: hard to avoid pulseaudio nowadays
17:03<@Rubidium>s/help/own/
17:04<Yexo>TrueBrain: I can't access the noai project site svn anymore, for exmplae svn up returns "svn: Server sent unexpected return value (502 Bad Gateway) in response to OPTIONS request for 'http://noai.openttd.org/svn/ai-admiralai/trunk'"
17:04<t>yes, pulse sucks sometimes...
17:05<t>as a musician i use jackd and i am glad i have linux :)
17:05<t>(low latency, plugable real time effects, real-time remixing, filtering)
17:06<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18502 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info_dummy.cpp: -Fix: the dummy AI would could a NOT_REACHED if the translated error message contained a quote
17:07<PeterT>0.7.5-RC1? Already?
17:07-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm A½ - Aja 35]
17:08<dihedral>PeterT: those are bug fix releases ;-)
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>why not? the later it gets, the less useful it's going to be
17:09<PeterT>What happened to Celestar? Why did he leave?
17:10<frosch123>he was annoyed about the spam in here
17:10<PeterT>Ah
17:10<PeterT>So he left?
17:10<frosch123>night
17:10<dihedral>:-P
17:10<PeterT>Night
17:10-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6fac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:10<_ln>@seen Celestar
17:10<@DorpsGek>_ln: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 33 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
17:10<_ln>33 weeks is hardly leaving
17:11<PeterT>33 weeks is ~8 months
17:11<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18503 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3370]: the length and platform buttons in the station window weren't always properly centered
17:11<_ln>not even enough for a baby
17:12<dihedral>:-P
17:12<t>for some babies, its a good date
17:14<t>do you plan adding some open music ?
17:15<@Rubidium>only if someone makes it
17:15<t>there is a lot of 'free' or Free music files. midi, oggs
17:15<_ln>Sacro already found some great open music
17:15<t>but question is, will the user want to listen? :)
17:16<_ln>but nobody cared, i guess
17:16<@Rubidium>more: will they want to listen to those 20-ish songs?
17:16<_ln>they can replace it with britney spears if the so choose
17:17<_ln>+y
17:17<t>ooooh
17:17<t>baby baby, your train is rolling
17:17*dihedral claps his hands for mp3 players
17:17<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r18504 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Remove [NoAI]: AIVehicle::SkipToVehicleOrder as it was a duplicate or AIOrder.SkipToOrder
17:17<@Rubidium>and how free is their free?
17:18<t>i would not listen to some 'authors', even for free
17:18<t>but original music really was great
17:18<t>i guess best would be to ask copyright owners to release it under friendly license
17:19<@peter1138>or forget about it
17:19<@Rubidium>that requires one thing... knowing who are the copyright owners
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't even know who composed the music...
17:20*peter1138 tinkles with AZR-3
17:20<t>peter1138: today i listened to the music with my son, who wants to learn it. he has 6 years, he plays piano
17:20<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: Jeff something?
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>is that a question?
17:20<_ln>John Broomhall
17:20<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Broomhall
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>t: so? you can generate the music sheets from the midi files
17:21<t>i just want to explain that the music is still nice! and even new generation will enjoy it
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>t: but that has no relation to getting the distribution rights
17:22<t>well, about those rights, maybe you need just to ask :)
17:22<_ln>t: 01:44:25 < Sacro> http://www.mutopiaproject.org/cgibin/make-table.cgi?collection=joplin&preview=1 <- free openttd musics?
17:23<Sacro>?
17:23<@Rubidium>hmm, Jazz existed in 1899?
17:24<@peter1138>ragtime
17:24<t>... bookmarking...
17:24<t>_ln interesting link
17:25<_ln>it is
17:26-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.114.154.138.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:27<t>but those are only piano :)
17:28<Sacro>_ln: i posted that ears ago
17:28<_ln>that's a matter of a minor editing of the midi file
17:28<Sacro>*years
17:28<t>minor editing? to make it as nice as the original music? :)
17:28<t>i admire the original music, i must say
17:28<_ln>Sacro: correcto. about 1.08 years ago.
17:29<Sacro>bloody hell
17:32<_ln>02:02:49 < ln> that's like the best freely distributable TTD-style music we're ever going to find, and it's in midi format.
17:32<t>i will try looking around for better :)
17:36<t>would you be open to another format (ogg) ?
17:42<@Rubidium>nope
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17:47<fjb>Hi andythenorth, have some fish?
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17:55*peter1138 mumbles at ice1712 not supporting suspend
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18:18<Terkhen>good night
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18:36<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r18505 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix [FS#3169]: improve airport movement on several airports
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18:48<PeterT>Why was the Mac OS X maintainer 'lost'?
18:48<PeterT>(As it says on the website)
18:49-!-sparrL2 [~kvirc@c-76-22-160-164.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:49<Prof_Frink>PeterT: We think he fell down the back of the sofa
18:50<PeterT>Ah, That would make him very hard to find :-p
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19:01<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18506 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3368]: no error message was created for the first fatal NewGRF error.
19:02-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has joined #openttd
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>he was a victim of the climate change
19:08-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbabe94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:08<PeterT>Aren't we all?
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>he in particular, which is why the climate summit was moved to denmark
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19:18<t>Eddi|zuHause: you know about climategate?
19:19<t>if not, google it and read! even those mails and files, they are interesting read...
19:19<@Rubidium>t: there's lies, damn lies and statistics. That's all you need to know
19:20<planetmaker>and the owners of climategate...
19:21<t>Rubidium: yes, nice quote, especially if those statistics are fixed to hide the decline :)
19:22<t>(google 'hide the decline' )
19:22<@Rubidium>but is there a decline?
19:22<@Rubidium>that's the whole thing about my quote. It's statistics, thus you don't know
19:22<t>well, every morning there is global worming... followed by global cooling in the night
19:23<t>i see global warming mostly working in gay clubs
19:23<@Rubidium>yes, and I'm vegetarian while not eating meat
19:23<planetmaker>T: especially "global"... when it comes to day and night cycles...
19:23<t>planetmaker: ok, so take winter and summer :)
19:24<t>(thats the level of lies blood and gore are pushing)
19:24<fjb>Exxon et al spent million for people who denied the global warming against all facts. Now some conspiracy theorists are doing it for free.
19:25<t>you are in the night denial crowd!
19:25<planetmaker>T: even then... summer and winter isn't global either. FAIL!
19:25<t>planetmaker: tell that to all gore :)
19:25<t>he is comparing summer to winter :)
19:25<planetmaker>obviously I've to tell you
19:25<t>ice is growing, polar bears are breeding well...
19:26<planetmaker>do they?
19:26-!-edeca [~david@lenny.lionserver.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:26<t>planetmaker: check yourself :)
19:26<planetmaker>and THEY are watching you.
19:26<@Rubidium>t: still, what's the method of showing the decline? Statistics. Statistics are by definition lies. As such both parties are lieing. Conclusion (by deduction)... there's no decline and no global warming
19:26<planetmaker>T: I did
19:26<t>planetmaker: in summer? :)
19:26<planetmaker>yes
19:27<fjb>Still they do. Still there is ice left. But it's less each year. Some glaciers are still growing, but most are rapidly shrinking.
19:27<t>Rubidium: well, but then why co2 taxes to fund global government?
19:27<t>fjb: just look how ice is growin in last years
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>of course it's not getting warmer during a cyclical decline, the worries are about the next cyclical warming when it's not getting colder during the decline phase due to man-made warming
19:28<fjb>Lokk how is shrinking. I have seen it in the alps.
19:28<@Rubidium>t: yes, and that growing ice is not good for my power consumption :(
19:28<planetmaker>T: then show me that satilite image sequence over the last two decades which show ice on average growing!
19:28<planetmaker>(images taken at the same day of the year, mind it)
19:28<@Rubidium>ooh, time to get out the julian calendar
19:29<planetmaker>he :-) better take the modified julian calender
19:29<planetmaker>easier comparison
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19:29<fjb>We already had some cases of Malaria in Souther Germany.
19:29<t>Eddi|zuHause: man-made warming? :) lol i love that phrase :)
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you giggle at the hidden gay reference... what are you? 12?
19:30*Sacro sniggers
19:30<t>Eddi|zuHause: why do you attack me?
19:30<planetmaker>:-P
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>because reason obviously doeasn't work
19:31<fjb>It is easy to belive that mankind could not change what god made. But thinking about what really happens is more difficuld. That is why people ofter prefer beliving over thinking.
19:31<t>Eddi|zuHause: well :) tell me about that. i was studying computer science... that includes logic and higher math...
19:31<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I reccomend http://www.amazon.de/Fundamentalisten-diskutiert-verlieren-Anleitung-subversiven/dp/3406511244
19:31<@Rubidium>fjb: on that point... it's God's will
19:32<@Rubidium>or whatever the phrase is in English
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand these "god made it" people
19:32<@Rubidium>t: but how can you prove a decline if the data has been destroyed?
19:32-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
19:32<@Rubidium>^ that's what happens if you don't have faith in God :)
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19:32<Eddi|zuHause>global warming is clearly described in the bible
19:33<@Rubidium>yes... quickly... how many sheep do we have to put on that Ark
19:33<t>Rubidium: i am talking about last few years (decline)...
19:33<@Rubidium>t: but then again... statistics
19:33<CIA-4>OpenTTD: yexo * r18507 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Change [FS#3340]: move the 'check online content' button from the AI list window to the AI configuration window
19:34<fjb>The bible is the excuse for destroying our world. It's gods will. He said that manking stands above all.
19:34<t>btw 15 years ago my wife was on university, they tried to scare them with visions of 'global cooling'
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>it says right there: mankind didn't use its ressources respectfully, so a flood came
19:34<@Rubidium>however you want something to be explained, just draw a different line and there's your proof
19:34<t>its old 'conspiracy theory' about climate change :)
19:35<planetmaker>t: you notice? "They". They watch you. They fool you. They control you.
19:35<@Rubidium>ah well... the whole climate stuff is really minor if you compare it with the real problematic stuff
19:35<fjb>So why did Exxon have to spend billions to hide the facs of warming when the warming were lies?
19:35<t>planetmaker: speak for yourself :)
19:35<t>Rubidium: agreed
19:35<planetmaker>I don't claim that "they" did this or "they" did that
19:35<@Rubidium>fjb: what facts? They're statistics
19:36<fjb>In context of the universe the earth really is not important.
19:36-!-Guest1749 [~frank@p5485F954.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36<t>its like deaths by terrorists - compared to deaths by lighting or mistake of a doc -- or even by side effects when people take pills (correctly).
19:36<planetmaker>Yeah... one planet complains to the other: "oh, I feel so bad. I have homo sapiens". Replies the other: "Don't worry. That passes."
19:37<t>Rubidium: you can create your own statistics :) - which you can believe in.
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: "in context of world population, my food is really not important" -> "so i should stop eating food?" is the wrong conclusion
19:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: no, it's the right one... the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
19:39<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Just stop worrying. Nothing is important. Or stop eating. That makes you stop worring. Wo cares when mankind dies?
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you now planetjokemaker?
19:39<planetmaker>yup ;-P
19:39<planetmaker>mind they're usually bad and old :-P
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>i guess your kind makes jokes like this often ;)
19:42<t>if you believe that humans produce too much CO2, do me a favor and stop breathing first. :)
19:43<planetmaker>stop farting. methane is worse
19:43<PeterT>Does anyone have sys-op access to the wiki?
19:43<@Rubidium>and if you believe chopping down trees causes much less CO2 adsorbition stop breathing too ;)
19:43<PeterT>The link to the forums on the front page is borken
19:43<t>planetmaker: i agree on farts
19:43<fjb>Don't go to Mc Donalds.
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>t: the issue with "going green" is not "don't do X anymore" but "keep doing X with using fewer ressources"
19:44<Yexo>PeterT: fixed
19:44<t>yes, from now you can only breath 1/5 of the air you used...
19:44<PeterT>Thanks Yexo
19:45<PeterT>:-)
19:45<@Rubidium>t: fine, but then I'm going to discard the 80% I'm not going to use anyway first :)
19:45<t>so either stop breathing or do a genocide :)
19:46<fjb>We already tried that.
19:47<t>we were always joked about taxes on breathing - and its finally here :) (i was living uder CCCP controlled commie regime and i remember those jokes from those times)
19:49<fjb>What do we learn from that? Eastern Europ was green under the comunists.
19:49*Rubidium also ponders what's the concept of burning bio-mass
19:49<t>they call it holocaust
19:49<t>fjb: no, we were RED
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: depriving the next scentient race of their fossile fuels
19:50<t>its the same style, just another color :)
19:50*planetmaker yawns and shuffles off to bed. Good night folks
19:50-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:50<t>gn! sleep well
19:50<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: well, aren't fossil fuels bio-mass too?
19:50<t>also you are biomass
19:50<t>google robot EATR
19:50<@Rubidium>maybe it's a bit older, but still...
19:50<t>:)
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, and if we burn them now, they won't get it
19:50<fjb>So destroying the world is really freedom. Anything else is evel comunistic.
19:50<t>fjb: i didnt call for destruction
19:51<t>dont put that into my mouth
19:51<fjb>And holocaust is what we did, not them.
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: btw. i found a use for your beloved list
19:51<t>we all have part in the history
19:51<fjb>t: You do all the time in this discussion.
19:51<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: which list?
19:52<Eddi|zuHause>the one that starts with an "i" and has famous names on it :p
19:52<t>no, only when you throw in climate change... like fact, even when climategate showed its a lie...
19:52-!-ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke]
19:52<@Rubidium>ah, that one
19:52<@Rubidium>am I think what you're thinking?
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>how do we get 200 flamingos into the car?
19:53<@Rubidium>with a car crusher?
19:54<@Rubidium>or do you mean the Central Afrian Republic, because then it'd be easy
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>did you know that flamingos turn pink from the stuff they are eating?
19:54-!-PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-211-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Night, I'm off]
19:54<fjb>t: The not used date showed an even faster warmth. But it was left out of the statistics because it was unreliable. That was the "trick" the scientists used.
19:55<t>fjb: nice story, thanks now i can sleep well
19:55<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: removing the results that are the furthest from the average is a common technique in statistics
19:56<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yes I did know that
19:56<fjb>Climagate ofcourse makes up another story. But who pays them?
19:56<@Rubidium>and they're not getting pink from the shrimp, but from the blueish algae they eat
19:56<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: I know. You know. The climagate people don't.
19:56<t>And editing all results many times? and deleting emails and data after FOI request? and mobbing scientists who do not agree?
19:57<t>fjb: its admitted that those emails are real
19:57<t>read them
19:57<t>read comments in the code(!)
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>you do know the fundamental theorem of statistics
19:58<fjb>First look who paied whom for tellling the press what. Then come back and complain about some emails.
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>do never trust a statistics that you did not forge yourself
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>i should really start forging statistics
19:59<t>what are u trying to say? that we will never know truth?
19:59<t>are you proud of not being able to see truth?
19:59<t>thats sad
20:00<fjb>"Scientitsts" where paid to tell the press that there is no warmth. Some of them were even not real scientists.
20:00<t>fjb: its the other way around and those mails and files PROVE IT
20:00<t>they got tens of millions $$$ for lying about warming
20:00<t>and they KNEW its cooling...
20:01<fjb>And who paid them?
20:01<t>those questions are good... but you have to LOOK into the case deeper.
20:01<t>i cant do it for you :) but there are many many web pages now about it
20:02<fjb>Just answer that single question. Who would spend billions on generating a wrming hype?
20:02<t>the one who will get much more ?
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>"it's on a web page, it must be true!
20:02<fjb>Who is that?
20:02<t>Eddi|zuHause: please :)
20:02<fjb>Who will earn more than billions from a warming hype?
20:03<t>fjb: did you heard EU president talking about global governance?
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, please... it is proven that we are in a cooling phase
20:03<t>and did you see gore getting hundreds millions already from the scam?
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is that it is not cooling as much as it is supposed to
20:03<t>Eddi|zuHause: problem is that you believe to someone who is not trustworthy
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>the real (potential) catastrophe is only coming in 100 years!
20:04<lugo>http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php :)
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>nobody is trustworthy...
20:04<t>Eddi|zuHause: even you?
20:04<t>so why are u trying to tell me something :)
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, especially $random_guy_on_irc
20:05<t>i am not asking you to believe me - just read about the case
20:05<t>its not rocket science
20:05<t>its much easier
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>actually, rocket science is one of the easiest parts of science
20:06<t>well :) i know something about turbulences :) which is not that easy to compute
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20:06<Eddi|zuHause>the rocket propulsion system was developed during war times in caves...
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20:06<t>even americans needed nazi scientists to make some good rockets
20:07<@Rubidium>t: do you even have a clue how to model the weather, leave alone weather forecasts?
20:07<fjb>They needed German scientists. Too bad that many of them were Nazis at that time.
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>you are overgeneralizing
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>they needed GERMAN scientists
20:07<t>lol eQualizer :))
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>not all germans were automatically nazis
20:07<t>eh i mean Eddi|zuHause
20:07<t>but those were :)
20:08<t>those taken by project paperclip
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>and we all know that the americans actually lost the rocket race
20:08<fjb>Not all were Nazis. Some where. THe USA didn't care.
20:09<t>well especially those nazi doctors from concentration camps WERE nazis to the core
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>the russians, who "only" got the low level technicans after the americans left eastern germany, had the more successful rocket program
20:09<fjb>And we all know that Russion space technology is more reliable.
20:09<t>lol i need to take break :)
20:09<fjb>t: That Nazi doctors did not build rockets.
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>t: and actually, the USA had one of the strongest nazi movements in the "western world"
20:10<t>fjb: you know about project paperclip? :)
20:10<t>Eddi|zuHause: yes, agreed
20:10*t afks
20:10<fjb>t lost anyway by godwin.
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20:30<fjb>dbset 1.0 will be playable in subtropic climate only.
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, when it gets released in 2138
20:30<@Rubidium>haha... will it ever be released?
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>of course the world will end 100 years prior to that...
20:33<fjb>The people at Bell knew when the world would come to an end.
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>over the last 100 years, the world ended like two dozen times already...
20:35<fjb>Yes, but there can not be any other reason for making the time counter only 32 bit.
20:36-!-weaselboy246 [risugami@72-173-0-26.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd
20:36<Eddi|zuHause>it's even worse... it's 32bit signed
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>so effectively 31bit
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>and have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? ;)
20:39<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18508 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp rail_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3372]: if a rail station class had less data than capacity it would try to set a negative position
20:39<fjb>You ought to belive.
20:39<Eddi|zuHause>funny story about statistics
20:39<Eddi|zuHause>the weather forecast is 70% accurate
20:39-!-xopek [~xopknet@92.46.175.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:39<@Rubidium>but isn't the overflow in 2038, not 2138?
20:40<Eddi|zuHause>a random person on the street saying "tomorrow the weather is going to be like today" is 65% accurate
20:40<fjb>Yes, that is why the world will end 100 years before the release of dbset 1.0.
20:41<Eddi|zuHause>so all the effort for weather forecasting only increases accuracy by 5%
20:41<fjb>Kräht der Hahn auf dem Mist ändert sich das Wetter oder es bleibt wie es ist.
20:42<@Rubidium>my weather forecast for the spring is usually 100% accurate: tomorrow's weather is shit
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: well, that's a tautology
20:42<fjb>My forecast is: No snow here next summer.
20:42<@Rubidium>either it rains, or it doesn't and I get hay fever
20:42<fjb>Me too.
20:42<@Rubidium>anyway, either is shitty weather
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20:43<fjb>We should better stay at home and read conspiracy theories.
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>like the scottish people say: "if you can see the top of the hills, it's going to rain soon
20:43<fjb>:-)
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20:44<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: the cause for hay fever is not playing enough in the dirt as a child
20:45<@Rubidium>I blame my mother
20:46<Eddi|zuHause>funny thing about the human immune system. if it is underoccupied, it searches for new things to fight
20:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's like the americans, if they have no enemies who threaten to attack them, they create an "axis of evil" by themselves
20:47<@Rubidium>and it seriously annoys me
20:47<fjb>Me too.
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>while the soviets were around, everything was peachy... afterwards, it started to go down the drain
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20:49<Eddi|zuHause>i'm looking forward to the next cold war between USA and China
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20:50<Eddi|zuHause>it'll get interesting when China starts to support Iran ;)
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>or Syria ;)
20:51<fjb>USA and China can not really have a cold war. They are like conjoined twins now.
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>there are other funny scenarios
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>like political collapse of pakistan and india invading the area, then iran feeling threatened
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: the cold war doesn't need to be an economical one
20:55<fjb>But it hinders economy very much.
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: also the question is whether europe manages to get a 3rd independent superpower, or instead stays the puppy of the USA
20:56<fjb>I dislike both options.
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>currently it leans towards the latter
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