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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-18

---Logopened Fri Dec 18 00:00:09 2009
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01:29<@Rubidium>terinjokes: as I said, missing includes... I reckon you didn't take a look at my ld64.patch
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02:25<Terkhen>good morning
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03:42<@peter1138>mm
03:42<@peter1138>possibly need more variety on huge maps
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03:45<Noldo>hm?
03:48<@peter1138>hmm, 2048x2048 on smooth works quite well
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04:28<terinjokes>TrueBrain: you wouldn't happen to know if SetFile is availible on Linux?
04:29<TrueBrain>I indeed wouldn't happen to know
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04:30<terinjokes>is any of that useful? what I'm building crashes with "/Developer/Tools/SetFile -t APPL wxrc" (seems to be the lasn step
04:31<TrueBrain>I have no idea
04:32<terinjokes>looks like there's a replacment in http://kobesearch.cpan.org/htdocs/MacOSX-File/MacOSX/File/Info.pm.html
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04:55<TrueBrain>terinjokes: most tools can be replaced (if needed), most are not that needed after all. The one that seems not replacable is 'hdiutil' or what was it called, which is used to make .dmg files (compressed ones)
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06:14<edeca>What am I doing wrong, all the vehicles seem to favour that one platform! http://imagebin.org/75968
06:14<edeca>I am using a recent nightly
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06:19<fjb>Move both outer loading places one tile closer to the station entry so that the distance from the entry to the loading places is equally long. That may help.
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06:21*roboboy wonders if openttd would compile under msvc++ 6
06:21<roboboy>it should I would have thought
06:21<@peter1138>isn't that the ancient version? i don't think it does
06:21<@peter1138>the newer free versions work though
06:22<roboboy>it was the last non dotnet version of VS
06:22<edeca>fjb: OK
06:23<Yexo>edeca: are you playing with 0.7 or with a nighty?
06:23<edeca>Yexo: Last night's nightly
06:23<edeca>I was playing with a ~4 day old nightly
06:23<edeca>Just upgraded
06:23<Yexo>strange
06:23<Yexo>I thought that was fixed
06:24<edeca>They just go to the nearest platform, no matter what happens
06:24<edeca>I just created a one way circuit round that and it still happens
06:26<@peter1138>roboboy, it won't compile then, you need the newer versions, preferably the newest
06:26<@peter1138>they're free, so...
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06:40<Gremnon>probably a silly questions, but is there any way to force an MSVC build to handle crashes the same way a GCC one does?
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06:54<TrueBrain>Gremnon: you question is a bit ambigious. It might help if you explain what you expect from a crash
06:57<Gremnon>I mean that GCC builds handle crashes differently to an MSVC one, AFAIK
06:57<Gremnon>Since I have only experience in dealing with the GCC crash dumps and so on, I wanted to see if MSVC could be made to do the same
06:57<Gremnon>so it wouldn't need the PDB or debug builds that CargoDist sometimes needs
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>very unlikely
06:58<Gremnon>that's a bit of a pest
06:59<TrueBrain>MSVC crash dumps are in fact more verbose, but no, they are not compatible, and you can't make them compatible (for the obvious reason)
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07:00<Gremnon>alright, so without having access to MSVC, is there any way to use those dumps?
07:00<Gremnon>I haven't looked yet, but I have my doubts about MSVC working via wine, which is the only way I could ATm
07:01<TrueBrain>I doubt that is possible
07:01*Gremnon goes looking on Amazon for a new copy of Windows
07:01<Gremnon>I'm going to need one, it seems... everything seems to need it...
07:02<TrueBrain>or just don't use MSVC
07:02<TrueBrain>I don't :p
07:02<Gremnon>well, i'm trying to debug my pack, and petert raised the valid point that he compiles with it, which leaves me with crash logs I can't use
07:02<Gremnon>unless he's willing to take on debugging too...
07:04<Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992&p=841344#p841344 petert said here he compiles with gcc, not with msvc
07:04<Gremnon>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=841344#p841344 would seem to disagree
07:04*peter1138 ponders posting a patch that formats your harddrive...
07:05<@peter1138>petert will post a build
07:05<Yexo>Gremnon: you notice that is exactly the link I posted? read again, ".. with GCC and not MSVC..."
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07:05<Gremnon>bah, I haven't had a cup of tea yet, I misread it
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07:06<Gremnon>wait, I thought GCC did generate the crash.dmp?
07:06<Gremnon>it always has for me, but if that's just Linux...
07:06<Yexo>dunno, haven't used linux on my desktop for quite a while
07:07<planetmaker>when defining the additional shore sprites in the extra newgrf of OpenGFX, using the 10 sprites version... I wonder why they don't get used... (trunk r18527, OpenGFX r281 with a diff as found at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/688 )
07:07<Gremnon>I think it's time I went and stuck OpenTTD on this freshly installed Debian build to find out...
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07:08<Alberth>Gremnon: I have ~/.openttd/crash.{log,sav,png} files
07:09<Alberth>Gremnon: and I have core dumps enabled
07:09<Alberth>for gdb
07:11<Gremnon>hmm... this is very odd... is it just gcc on win that doesn't dump then
07:17<TrueBrain>core dumps are made by the kernel, not by gcc
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07:18<Gremnon>right, so by that logic, would I be right in assuming that to get a dump at all from any win32 build, it'd have to be an MSVC one, and I'd need the PDB of the matching build
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07:18<TrueBrain>yes
07:19<Gremnon>Why does windows have to be such a pain...
07:19*Gremnon wonders if it's possible to run linux OpenTTD via Cygwin/MinGW
07:19<Gremnon>it'd certainly help in some areas
07:19<TrueBrain>a pain? just because it is different then you are used to? I find that an overstatement
07:20<TrueBrain>Windows just approaches crashes differently
07:20<Gremnon>I used to be used to Windows, and I used to think Linux was a pain, now it's the other way around
07:20<TrueBrain>so it is not the OS, just your perspective on the OS
07:21<Gremnon>alright, so I'm a bit biased against Windows, I now find that when I have to use it, I wonder how on earth I managed to put up with it before
07:21<Gremnon>at least I'm not a Linux fanatic
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>you are starting to sound like one ;)
07:28<Gremnon>ah, no, a fanatic is someone is who insists that his OS is the best et all. I like Linux, I find it's easier, but I try not to keep going on about it
07:28<Gremnon>I also don't try to convert anyone to using it
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07:37<fjb>Linux can't be the best OS because FreeBSD is. *hides*
07:42<Noldo>hihi :)
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07:58<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i need a quick git cheatsheet...
07:59<Gremnon>Eddi|zuHause - http://ktown.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-medium.png
07:59<Gremnon>useful much maybe?
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08:16<Eddi|zuHause>woah... conflicts in date_gui.cpp span practically the whole file...
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08:19<fjb>Cargodist?
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, more timetable gui
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08:29<fjb>Oh, they also use git?
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>no, they don't
08:45<fjb>Why then git? I find it counter intuitive.
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>to try it out?
08:47<fjb>Ah, you are evaluating revision control systems to find a new one for your personal use?
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>mainly i want to be familiar with it when other projects use it
08:48<Gremnon>personally, in comparison to mercurial, I find git is slow and checkouts take up too much space
08:49<blathijs>Hmm, I found git lightning fast compared to svn already :-)
08:50<Gremnon>my speed issue is that to get a single revision, it seems to insist on bringing all kinds of bits I don't want
08:50<fjb>I used find confusing. And it had some problems to keep the history of a file which was moved into another directory, last time I tried it. And it didn't work well on Windows then.
08:50<Gremnon>svn I can get a specific revision or head in a matter of moments
08:51<blathijs>Gremnon: Unless you moved around files, I just tried that and it took me a few different approaches before that worked...
08:52<Gremnon>blathijs, you mean checking out an svn revision?
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08:52<thingwath>Gremnon: --depth 0?
08:52<fjb>Most revision control systems have problems with moved or renamed files and directories.
08:53<blathijs>But I agree that git can be confusing, it doesn't have a very consistent interface. Windows support is better though, last time I tried (1.5 years back) there was a MSYS based version that even came with bash for free :-)
08:53<Gremnon>thingwath, I've not tried much like that with git, I prefer to avoid it unless necessary, which is why I apply trunk-cargodist against svn trunk instead
08:54<blathijs>Gremnon: Yeah, I want to checkout just a specific directory from an old directory, but it was moved in the latest revision. So just svn co -r rev svn://url/to/dir didn't work. I had to append @rev to the url, I found out after some time.
08:54*FauxFaux uses git command-line from windows-cmd and from Eclipse relatively painlessly.
08:54<FauxFaux>git's handling of line ending still makes no sense, though.
08:54<blathijs>FauxFaux: Like, it doesn't handle line endings right?
08:54<Gremnon>blathijs, to get a specific revision, say 18495, I use svn checkout -r 18495 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk <destination folder> and it works fine
08:55<blathijs>Gremnon: Not if trunk was renamed to foo later
08:55<FauxFaux>blathijs: The way that status can show modified files after git reset --hard, for example.
08:55<Gremnon>if it was renamed, then substituting the new name should work
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08:55<blathijs>FauxFaux: Hmm, now that you mention it, I saw that on windows sometime as well...
08:56<blathijs>Gremnon: I don't think so. At least, checkout out the new name and doing svn up -r rev didn't work
08:56<blathijs>bbl
08:56<FauxFaux>If you disable autocrlf and ensure your editors defailt to unix line endings then it's fine (windows line endings would be fine, but gitweb then looks like poo).
08:58<thingwath>how fast is svn checkout on openttd trunk?
08:59<thingwath>If I have whole openttd git repository, I can switch to different revisions in ~seconds, I doubt that svn can beat that.
08:59<Gremnon>thingwath, for me, I can get head in a few moments. I've never timed it, but it's the quickest way to get it for me
09:00<Noldo>are you really having some kind of version control war?
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09:02<Gremnon>I hope not, but FWIW I prefer SVN because of the speed I can get it, Mercurial for more advanced actions that SVN doesn't support, and GIT only if there's no other choice
09:03<Alberth>thingwath: if you pull svn over the Internet, it is not a fair comparison
09:04<thingwath>hm, ~10 seconds for openttd trunk checkout with svn
09:04<fjb>I don't see this as a war.
09:04<thingwath>that's quite good
09:05<fjb>I have chosen bazaar because it saves me a lot of disc space and worked like I expected out of the box.
09:06<Gremnon>by the same logic, that's pretty much the same reason I favour SVN
09:07<thingwath>Is there a way to have whole svn repository locally? I remember svk, but that wasn't exactly the thing I'd like to use.
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09:07<Gremnon>why would you want to, when you can call in a specific revision from the online repository in a few seconds?
09:07<thingwath>because quite often I can't :)
09:07<Gremnon>especially since you can 'update' with svn update to an older revision as well as a new one
09:09<Gremnon>looking at the output of svn -h and the man page, I don't think there is a way, except possibly by 3rd party tool, or checking them all out yourself
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09:09<Gremnon>I think in that case, git does win out over hg and svn
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09:11<fjb>The next problem is putting local changes under version control.
09:11<thingwath>Well, I use git-svn for that purpose :o) But that is really slow.
09:11<planetmaker>the fundamental difference between hg and git on the one side and svn on the other side is distributed VCS vs. centralized VCS
09:11<Gremnon>fjb, doesn't mercurial have something to handle that? I'm sure it does.
09:11<thingwath>I'd like to have something faster. To clone whole openttd svn repository with git-svn would be very painful.
09:11<planetmaker>For most parts a distributed VCS has its advantages, if you maintain many local branches of a repo.
09:11<planetmaker>as you can check out any version w/o internet access
09:12<fjb>Gremnon: The local changes problem is related to svn, not mercurial.
09:13<Gremnon>I believe there's a mercurial equivilent of git-svn, but I could be wrong
09:13<planetmaker>and if you do a bit more dev than applying an occasional patch to trunk, a VCS with the whole history locally rules
09:13<Gremnon>planetmaker, that's way I keep a manual log of everything I do, especially when it comes to multiple patches and conflicts
09:13<fjb>Yes. That is why I replaced svn for my personal use.
09:13<Gremnon>slower, but also means I can write it in a format I understand
09:14<planetmaker>fjb: same here :-) Using hg ever since
09:14<thingwath>hm, is there any reason why I woulnd't like to have whole repository locally?
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09:14<planetmaker>Gremnon: manual log... that's like throwing away a VCS while you use it.
09:14<planetmaker>thingwath: space?
09:15<Gremnon>not really, I note down the exact changes I make, and I can interpret it a lot quicker
09:15<thingwath>planetmaker: Of course. Exepct that. Even linux-2.6-stable is no more than 1.5GB, and I don't mind that. :)
09:15<Gremnon>and yes, space is a limiting factor, 200GB drives don't grow on trees
09:15<fjb>I'm always low on disc space, so I use bazaar now. And is has import and export plugins for other version control systems.
09:15*Gremnon wishes they did
09:15<planetmaker>thingwath: yes. And then do that with 20...30 checkouts
09:15<planetmaker>on a laptop
09:15<thingwath>For a single repository? I don't need that, with git.
09:16<thingwath>Just branches, which are cheap.
09:16<planetmaker>well, yes :-)
09:16<Gremnon>space is why I like svn - my current local modified copy has never been more than 125MB after compiling
09:16<planetmaker>that's the one thing where git has a bit of an advantage over hg still, I think. Though hg is getting to better handling of those, too
09:17<edeca>Gremnon: WinDBG will load crash dumps but I doubt that runs in WINE either
09:17<Gremnon>edeca, will have a look at it. I'm going to have a look at getting Wine to play nice with MSVC later too.
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09:18<fjb>Has git a kind of shared repository when the branches live in the same directory tree?
09:18<thingwath>That's quite basic feature of git. :)
09:19<edeca>Gremnon: WinDBG is more likely to run than MSVC I'd guess :)
09:19<Gremnon>edeca, we'll see, I've got to get Wine itself to behave on a fresh Debian install yet
09:19<fjb>That saves a lot of duplicated space and the reason for me not to use mercurial.
09:19<planetmaker>fjb: yes, that's IMO the whole point of git
09:20<edeca>Gremnon: Are you using a nightly/updated wine or the one from the repository?
09:20<planetmaker>but I haven't yet used it extensively myself
09:20<fjb>Bazaar uses shared repositories too.
09:20<Gremnon>edeca, neither at the moment, but I always aim to go for the nightlies. I keep getting 404 not found on the Lenny repositories it suggests
09:20<fjb>I didn't know git also has that feature.
09:20<planetmaker>hg can, too. No problem to maintain zillions of heads
09:21<planetmaker>but... dunno. I prefer separate repos :-)
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09:21<edeca>Gremnon: Eh I use the ubuntu ppa ones, unsure if they'd work on debian but I don't see why not :)
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09:21<Gremnon>edeca, If all else fails, then I'll just compile it from source, it wouldn't be the first app I've had to so far
09:22<edeca>So does anybody know why I'm experiencing a bug with road vehicles always picking the nearest road stop?
09:22<edeca>I thought it had been fixed in the recent nightlies :(
09:22<Gremnon>It has, to my knowledge
09:22<edeca>I can reproduce :(
09:23<Gremnon>btw, for anyone using windows and mingw, could they possibly have a look at this: http://visual-mingw.sourceforge.net/ if it works for OpenTTD, I think it could be useful
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09:27<+glx>Gremnon: it's far from being finished
09:27<planetmaker>edeca: did you then produce a decent bug report at flyspray?
09:28<planetmaker>with best both, a savegame which (will) show(s) it and steps on how to reproduce?
09:28<edeca>planetmaker: Sure, I can bug it if you like
09:28<Alberth>thingwath: just in case you don't know, you can pull git and hg mirrors of the svn openttd repo
09:28<edeca>planetmaker: I have a screenshot and can find a savegame
09:29<Alberth>edeca: thanks :)
09:29<planetmaker>edeca: it's not "I like it". It's the way you most easily bring it to the attention of who can fix it. And it won't get forgotten till it's fixed
09:29<blathijs>thingwath: Yeah, the git mirror is useful for offline hacking (I've used both that and svk before)
09:30*planetmaker ponders also making a bug report about shore sprite substitutions in base set extra grfs.
09:30<+glx>Gremnon: and IIRC it can only edit code and compile
09:31<Gremnon>glx, I don't have Windows available to have a look, and I only saw it in passing. Maybe when it's a bit further along it could be useful?
09:31<Ammler>planetmaker: wait for frosch ;-)
09:31<planetmaker>^ my plan :-P
09:31<thingwath>Alberth: Yep, it's very useful, much much better than having to use git-svn myself. :)
09:32<@Belugas>good day
09:35<Terkhen>hello Belugas
09:35<edeca>"Account acitvated (Step 3/3)" typo on http://account.openttd.org/en/signup/step3
09:39<edeca>How do I attach a savegame if it is >8mb and wont compress any further?
09:41<@Belugas>set up an ftp server on your machine?
09:42<edeca>Oh, I could link to it from my server
09:42<edeca>Good idea, I'm an idiot :)
09:42<Alberth>make a smaller example
09:42<@Belugas>naaa...
09:43<+michi_cc>Gremnon: SVN is actually very space-ineffective. Size of a fresh SVN checkout and git clone: http://paste.openttd.org/220635
09:43<Alberth>edeca: your problem should be reproducable right at the beginning of the game
09:43<edeca>Alberth: Good point, I'll make a smaller one
09:43<Alberth>michi_cc: svn makes a copy of every source file, so divide by 2 for a comparison
09:44<+michi_cc>Gremnon: 8MB more gets you complete history and no network dependency for doing any real work. (Note: if you do heavy development on the git repo, a regular git gc will keep size down)
09:45<+michi_cc>Alberth: are these files optional to work with SVN? They aren't as far as I know which means that they do count
09:45<Alberth>fair point
09:46<Gremnon>I think the space effectiveness depends on how you use it really, I seldom have enough to make it worth the extra that GIY would provide, for the slower checkout time I experience
09:47<edeca>Alberth: Nope, I just started a new game and I can't reproduct :)
09:47<+michi_cc>oh, and: 88M openttd_hg
09:47<Alberth>weird
09:48<edeca>Alberth: Oh well, I should change how I'm doing it anyway as I shouldn't have trucks waiting to unload waiting for those that depend on output
09:49<+michi_cc>Gremnon: are you sure you mean checkout? Beacuse http://paste.openttd.org/220637 and that's with cygwin which is known to be slow.
09:49<Alberth>edeca: yeah, that seems sane :)
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09:50<Gremnon>michi_cc, by checkout, I mean that if I get a computer which has only just had GIT installed, and has never checked out CargoDist, the two commands the CargoDist wiki page says to use will take about an hour to complete for me
09:50<+michi_cc>Gremnon: a git clone on the other is slower, but you have to do that mostly only once, and a fetch/pull to update is fast if done regularly (i.e. the remote repo hasn't got too many changes)
09:50<Gremnon>the thing is, i don't *need* all the revisions - just the one I'm working on currently, and unmodified trunk's head
09:50<Gremnon>those are the only two checkouts I use
09:51<edeca>Alberth: It seems to be with articulated vehicles. 1 articulated vehicle takes up the same space as 2 smaller ones, perhaps the game thinks there is an empty "slot" at the station so all vehicles head for it
09:51*edeca guesses randomly
09:51<+michi_cc>Gremnon: okay, but cargodist is accessed by an http-url, right? A clone of git://git.openttd.org/openttd/trunk will probably be much faster. git over HTTP is definitely slow, that is a drawback compared to svn
09:52<Gremnon>I've never tried a git checkout of openttd itself, I've preferred svn because, as said, it takes very little time to get a single revision
09:54<Alberth>edeca: first priority in a FS bug is to explain/show how to reproduce the problem exactly. You can add guesses if you like, but say it is a guess rather than a fact.
09:54<+michi_cc>yes, but cloning needs to be done only once. a regualr fetch/pull/checkout/whatever to get the new trunk changes will likely be as fast as svn
09:54<edeca>Alberth: I'm just uploading the example then I'll bug
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>you still discussing git?
09:54<Gremnon>the space for each additional revision still adds up though, and space is something I have to economise on
09:55<planetmaker>get a new HD :-P
09:55<Gremnon>with just two folders, my working copy and trunk@head, that's very little space taken up, overall, compared to having an entire git clone@HEAD sat there
09:55<Gremnon>planetmaker, on a laptop that has no means of connecting one?
09:55*edeca buys Gremnon an Etch-A-Sketch
09:56<planetmaker>Gremnon: on a laptop you can also replace the HD
09:56<planetmaker>I actually quite like that I did with my last system upgrade
09:56<+michi_cc>it does add up, but not that fast. being very short on space is one of the reasons to manually run git gc regularly
09:56<+glx>a laptop without usb ?
09:56<Gremnon>planetmaker, problem then is that it'll have to come with an OS preinstalled, because if it's blank, I can't do anything with it
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09:56<Gremnon>glx, no, the only USB port no longer works, that's all
09:56<Gremnon>and it has no CD/DVD drive, stupidly
09:57<thingwath>231M /home/thingie/stuff/openttd/
09:57<thingwath>that isn't much, I think
09:57<edeca>Network boot! :)
09:57<thingwath>and you can boot over the network
09:57<thingwath>:)
09:57<Gremnon>michi_cc, well, I'll try it if/when I ever get my laptop working again
09:57<Gremnon>sigh
09:57<Gremnon>can't network boot
09:57<planetmaker>Gremnon: even that could be don on another computer then.
09:57<Gremnon>laptop doesn't support it
09:57<Gremnon>already tried
09:57<thingwath>then have someone install the system on that disc for you :)
09:57<Gremnon>planetmaker, if you can find what I'd need to do it for a laptop HD compatible with a Dell Latitude C400, then I could
09:58<Gremnon>as it is, I lack any means of connecting it to your standard tower PC
09:58<planetmaker>Gremnon: any usual 2.5" disc will do, I guess
09:58<edeca>Gremnon: I think you need a new laptop.. ;)
09:58<Gremnon>planetmaker, nope, it doesn't use that. LinuxQuestions already helped find that out
09:58<Gremnon>edeca, certainly, but I lack the funding to get it
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10:03*Gremnon ponders moving to Gentoo because he seems to be compiling almost everything lately
10:07<edeca>Gremnon: I used to use gentoo all the time
10:08<Gremnon>the main reason I'm considering it again is because the Debian repositories seem to be missing a LOT of packages I use a lot
10:08<Gremnon>so I have to compile them, and I'm practically compiling everything now, it seems
10:08<thingwath>debian repositories missing packages?
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10:08<edeca>What sort of packages?
10:08<Gremnon>not exactly missing as such, but the packages I use aren't there
10:08<Gremnon>packages like Subcommander
10:08<edeca>I find with universe/multiverse on Ubuntu most stuff is there
10:09<Gremnon>that's Ubuntu though, not Debian, and there's even more packages that ubuntu has that Debian doesn't
10:09<edeca>Alberth: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3384
10:09<+michi_cc>and some pointless git cheating: http://paste.openttd.org/220640 (cheating: nobody in his right mind would do such a repack every single day and thusly always have a larger repo (still, full history smaller than signle checkout))
10:09<Gremnon>even with free non-free and contrib enabled
10:09<edeca>Gremnon: Many of them are straight from Debian though
10:09<thingwath>You can package it yourself, if it's just a few packages.
10:10<Ammler>michi_cc: run hg up null
10:10<Gremnon>thingwath, I still have to compile it first, as Subcommander has no Debian precompiled
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10:10<edeca>Gremnon: I use checkinstall for that, you still have to ./configure
10:10<Gremnon>edeca, I know, but if by that logic, they should be in the Debian repositories - and they're not
10:10*edeca uses Ubuntu for desktops and Debian for servers
10:10<edeca>And Windows 7 at home to please the wife
10:11<Gremnon>edeca, actually, ./configure, make, make install, since I'm not packaging and distributing them
10:11<edeca>Gremnon: ./configure && checkinstall = easy package for you to remove later :)
10:11<Gremnon>that works too, but make uninstall also removes it too
10:12<edeca>Only if the author thought to include that, but yes true
10:12<Gremnon>I'm just a bit peeved that so many packages I'm used to on previous distros, even non-deb-based ones, aren't in Debian
10:12<+michi_cc>Ammler: that git repo is still with the working checkout, I didn't cheat that much ;)
10:12<Gremnon>I seem to be using far too much space on the -dev packages
10:12<Ammler>:-)
10:12<+michi_cc>Ammler: 33M .git :)
10:13<thingwath>Gremnon: clean deb packages could be built elsewhere and you'd save that much precious space :)
10:13<blathijs>Gremnon: I guess you use a very particular category of packages then, since in my experience Debian has one of the largest repositories of all distros...
10:13<Gremnon>thingwath, I don't have any deb-based system except this one at the moment
10:14<Ammler>well, you don't use hg because of the disk usage, but is is very easy for svn users.
10:14<Gremnon>blathijs, I don't dispute that, there are packages in Debian's repos that I've never seen before, but I still think there's too many missing
10:14-!-weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd
10:14<Gremnon>and Debian's habit of rejecting things like Firefox on what seem to me to be technicalities doesn't help any either
10:15<blathijs>Gremnon: They are called principles, not technicalities :-)
10:15<blathijs>Gremnon: And the software is there allright, it's just the name :-)
10:15<ChoHag>Gremnon: They're doing you a favour.
10:15<Gremnon>you mean the Iceweasel that's outdated? I prefer latest stable
10:15<ChoHag>Firefox is shit.
10:15<Gremnon>I don't think so
10:15<ChoHag>It will steal your children and burn down your house.
10:16<ChoHag>And eat your bandwidth.
10:16<Gremnon>I think that about Opera, but not FF
10:16<Gremnon>Opera to me is not as useful, but for maybe two features
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10:16<Gremnon>the quick-dial, and the one-click key icon which saves passwords, not that I save them
10:18<blathijs>Gremnon: The Iceweasel version you get is the same as the Firefox version you would have gotten without the licensing issues. If you think that's too old, that's another issue entirely...
10:18<Gremnon>I don't think so. Debian's Iceweasel reports as 3.0, not Firefox's 3.5.6
10:19<Gremnon>I know that because several of my addons refuse to work with Iceweasel because it reports as 3.0
10:19<Gremnon>and this is from Debian Lenny's repo
10:21<blathijs>Gremnon: This is really unrelated to the naming issue...
10:22<blathijs>Gremnon: I agree that Debian is not the fastest with its updates, but it's really a feature in a way :-)
10:22<Gremnon>sometimes you have to makea balance between passing things off as features, and actually providing the updates people want
10:22<Gremnon>which is why I've put actual branded firefox in /opt, and will continue to use actual branded firefox
10:23<Gremnon>Firefox aside though, I have to wonder why several open source projects, such as the mentioned subcommander, are missing from their repo
10:23<Alberth>edeca: thanks for the report, although I don't know how to fix it.
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10:23<Alberth>edeca: I don't even can load the save game due to missing newgrf files
10:23<Alberth>s/don't even can/cannot even/
10:23<Alberth>hmm, still not right
10:24<blathijs>Gremnon: Apparently there hasn't been a Debian maintainer interested to invest time in the package...
10:24<Gremnon>hmm... seeing as it refuses to compile on Debian, I'm inclined to agree with that...
10:24<Gremnon>now I just need something that I can use in place of it
10:26<@Rubidium>Gremnon: if you want the updates quickly, use Ubuntu and sit on the blisters of it not being stabilising for a while before going 'stable'
10:27<Gremnon>I've gone off Ubuntu and derivatives after a clean install of 9.04 saw nautilus segfault before I even did anything
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10:28<Gremnon>Fedora I used, and went off because of SELinux's over-restrictiveness, and the lack of a means to remove it, and I'm now working my way through other distros until I find one that works for me
10:28<Gremnon>Debian just happens to be the current victim of my use
10:33<@Rubidium>hmm, iceweasel isn't in debian backports?
10:33<Gremnon>I wouldn't know, backports 404s on me, as does debian unofficial
10:34<Gremnon>I've been using this (http://debgen.simplylinux.ch) to get the sources for the list, but either it's outdated, or C&P seems to be doing something wrong as they don'twork for me
10:35<Gremnon>at least, when set to location GB, and version set to Lenny
10:39<edeca>Alberth: I'll whip one up with only the road vehicles set
10:39<@Rubidium>oh, it isn't in backports... that's too bad for you
10:40<Gremnon>not really, as said, I've gone and got the stable firefox from mozilla, and put it in /opt, works no different than if it had been package-installed on ubuntu except for where it's located
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10:42<Gremnon>hmm, subcommander is in Squeeze, but not Lenny... I know Squeeze is testing, but isn't it meant to be for testing in Debian, not testing the actual software itself?
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10:43<@peter1138>..
10:43<edeca>It's a proposed addition to the next release of the distro
10:43<edeca>Hence it needs testing
10:43<edeca>Alberth: Updated so that it has a better savegame
10:44<Alberth>ok
10:44<Gremnon>by that, you mean testing it's compatibility with Debian, not just it?
10:44<edeca>Yes. It's not software testin
10:44<@peter1138>testing is the next release of debian
10:44<@peter1138>why shouldn't new programmes be in it?
10:44<edeca>It is "make sure we have the right dependencies and it runs correctly"
10:44<@peter1138>(how else would you get new programmes in?)
10:45<Gremnon>now, unless I've mis-checked the dates, Subcommander hasn't changed since Lenny was Squeeze, and has still been in there
10:45<edeca>peter1138: Magic fairies
10:45<@Rubidium>Gremnon: testing is for everything that's in unstable and didn't have more serious bugs within 10 days than the 'current' version in testing
10:45<@peter1138>Lenny was never squeeze
10:45<edeca>Gremnon: Sure, but once a distro is released not too many new packages are added
10:45<Gremnon>I think I need to be using Squeeze instead, it might solve just about every problem I've had with Debian so far
10:46<edeca>ITYM "ubuntu" :P
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10:46<Gremnon>except getting sound working
10:46<Gremnon>and no, not Ubuntu, I'm not using that. If nautilus segfaults on a fresh install, there's something very wrong
10:46<edeca>Yes, but wrong with what? :)
10:47<@peter1138>debian lenny works great for me :D
10:47<Gremnon>I like to have a working file manager, installing other ones didn't help any either
10:47<@peter1138>gnome-vfs-daemon has a habit of crashing with smb though
10:47<Gremnon>maybe I just need to find a different distro that isn't so annoying for me, or maybe I'll finally get around to trying freebsd
10:48<@peter1138>(i reported the bug but there's no fix apart from wait for squeeze for gvfs instead)
10:50-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
10:50<Gremnon>and yet everyone I ask seems to think debian lenny is perfect for me, although Mandriva has also been suggested
10:51<Gremnon>I think I might give it a shot
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10:56<edeca>Rubidium: Thanks for your comment on my bug. It only seems to happen with articulated vehicles though
10:56<CIA-4>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18528 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix (FS#3370): Platform length/count buttons not centred when NewGRF stations in use.
10:57<@Rubidium>edeca: I've tested it with articulated vehicles and it worked fine there, although I'm seeing more 'brokenness' with that savegame
10:57<@Rubidium>probably exactly the length to trigger some corner case
10:58<edeca>Rubidium: OK, I'll do as you say and build smaller entrances. But that's a brand new savegame, nothing weird :)
10:58<edeca>Thanks for your comments
10:59<@Rubidium>build a 3 tile (length) road stop and the second vehicle doesn't load... that shouldn't happen
11:00<@Rubidium>why that does happen I don't exactly know, although it might be somewhat related to your problem
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11:00<edeca>It's almost like the vehicles are heading for that station as they don't think it is occupied
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11:03<planetmaker>Rubidium: concerning FS 3383: I understand correctly that this issue works for newgrf, but cannot be fixed for basegrfs?
11:04<planetmaker>But I don't quite understand your reply there, I think
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11:08<planetmaker>The point I tried to make there is: the text for the lower default ships is beyond their sprites...
11:08<planetmaker>s/beyond/behind/
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11:13<@peter1138>arrr, http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety3.png
11:16<@peter1138>just needs rivers ;p
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>hah, no extreme cliffs anymore ;)
11:16<@peter1138>hmm?
11:16<planetmaker>pretty flat map, eh?
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: on typical TGP maps with water borders, there is usually a steep cut at the edge of the map
11:18<@peter1138>hmm
11:18<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety4.png
11:18<@peter1138>another
11:18<@peter1138>planetmaker, luck ;)
11:18<@peter1138>there are 4 curve maps
11:19<@peter1138>each corner picks one of the 4 randomly, duplicate is allowed so it's not all 4 types may appear on a map
11:20<@peter1138>then linear interpolation is used with some massaging to apply the curve maps across the map
11:20<@peter1138>this might need to be changed, though
11:20<@peter1138>on a huge map it's probably too obvious
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>i think that gets closer to what the original landscape generator did on arctic maps
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11:22<@peter1138>yup
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause>where one half of the map was above snow level and the other half was below
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>i can't figure out how to properly terraform for the rivers
11:24<weaselboy246>hmm, is it possible to get actual cliffs? like instant drop to a few levels down?
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>weaselboy246: not currently
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>weaselboy246: and not likely in the near future
11:24<weaselboy246>or does the map structure not allow that
11:24<Skiddles>variety4.png would make a fun map to play on, if not for the clump of industries at Condingville D:
11:24<weaselboy246>hmm ok
11:24<planetmaker>peter1138: is it TGP or what you posted in Zeph's land gen thread?
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>weaselboy246: let's say the map structure can be modified for it, but the visual representation and access to what's "behind" the cliff is problematic
11:25<@peter1138>Skiddles, i probably need to tweak industry properties
11:25<@peter1138>i bet i've enabled the one that allows industries close to each other
11:25<@peter1138>planetmaker, it's a progression of that
11:25<Skiddles>probably
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11:25<planetmaker>I see :-)
11:25<weaselboy246>ahh... that's true. can't rotate map if there was something on other side
11:26<Skiddles>Go host a pj1k server which resets in 1970 D:
11:26<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you seem to be there where I kinda gave up with rivers :-)
11:26<@peter1138>planetmaker, the patch i posted only applies one curve map to the whole thing
11:26<@peter1138>so it's not particularly varied
11:26<planetmaker>ah... :-) So... a new landgen ahead? :-)
11:27<@peter1138>no, it's still just a small modification of TGP
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, i placed the rivers on the TGP heightmap, where one has the opportunity to find out on flat tiles where "downwards" is
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>because of the fractional values
11:27<planetmaker>good choice, I guess. I didn't do that
11:27<@peter1138>Skiddles, yup "allow multiple" and "same type" are both on
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>but i get rivers on invalid slopes, and i can't properly fix them
11:28<planetmaker>can't you query the type of slope?
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's easy, but recursively terraforming the adjacent tiles without breaking other rivers...
11:29<Skiddles>Hmm, would be nice to have primary industries of the same type, but secondary ones just make it messy
11:29<@peter1138>*nod*
11:29<planetmaker>hm.... yes. Other rivers ;-) They're a pest
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11:30<@peter1138>set a flag to disallow destruction of rivers when terraforming
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11:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'm working on the heightmap, not on the actual map, so i'm only setting the heights
11:31<@peter1138>ah
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>i can probably brute force set the heights backwards when creating a sink...
11:34-!-Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure how the HeightMapSmoothSlopes function works
11:34<Devedse>Hello everyone, is there a way to select a part of your train track (for example a cross) and copy it to another place on the map?
11:34<@peter1138>no
11:35<weaselboy246>there was a copy paste patch awhile back. probably broken now
11:36<Devedse>ok :)
11:36<Devedse>i gues il do it manually then :P
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11:43<@peter1138>hmm, not all maps are any good
11:43<@peter1138>but then the same is true of TGP
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11:56<edeca>I think somebody was making sure the copy paste patch worked with trunk
11:56<edeca>There is a compiled version on the forums that has it in
11:56*edeca hasn't looked at the patch for a long long time
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12:04<SmatZ>good evening frosch123
12:04<frosch123>hello smatz :)
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12:12<planetmaker>moin frosch123 :-)
12:12<planetmaker>I'd like to pester you again :-P
12:12<frosch123>quak planetmaker :p
12:12<Sacro>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZcV1UuUzI <3
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12:13<frosch123>fine, if i can continue reading spon in parallel :p
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>the "former news magazine"? :p
12:13<planetmaker>I'm still messing with the shore tiles of OpenGFX... and the extra newgrf allows only 10 sprites, if the GRFID is the same as the hard coded OpenTTD grfID
12:14<planetmaker>Now I wonder: is it a requirement that the extra (new)grfs have all that GRFID, or is it something which needs fixing in OpenTTD? :-)
12:15<planetmaker>the relevant lines of code are newgrf_config.cpp:503 and newgrf.cpp:3628...3645
12:16<planetmaker>or in other words: I'm not sure wheter it's a bug or a feature ;-)
12:16<frosch123>hmm, i thought the grfid only has to start with ff to make it not show up in newgrf gui, while the rest is controlled by the obg
12:17<planetmaker>that's what I *thought*, too :-)
12:17<planetmaker>But the variable IsOpenTTDBaseGRF checks for that ID. And only then the 10 sprites are accepted
12:17<planetmaker>actually, the ID starting with FF is explicitly NOT tested for. It's masked out
12:18<frosch123>no, it isn't, the fourth byte is masked
12:18<planetmaker>oh... swapping the stuff?
12:18<planetmaker>ok... :-) that explains why my try to reverse the check fails
12:19<@peter1138>hurr
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>grf-ids are shown in little endian, i believe
12:20<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/variety5.png < commit? :p
12:20<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: seems like the TOWN_GROWTH_FREQEUNCY multiplier is working just fine now that I'm trying it again
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: good. now tell that in the daylength patch thread ;)
12:21<planetmaker>Doesn't look bad, peter1138
12:21<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: meh, I wouldn't know which one to post in, and I'm not sure I want to
12:22<@peter1138>ack, bloody customer
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>how dare he!
12:22<@peter1138>"is $employee there?" "no" "oh, he was going to do a sale on our site like last year, did he mention it" "OH REALLY"
12:23<@peter1138>how "convenient" that $employee is off...
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: well, all those balancing issues must be collected somewhere, or there will never be a remotely trunk-worthy patch
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12:27<edeca>orly!
12:27<Madis>yarly
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12:27<edeca>I'm still waiting for BT to phone me back 48 hours later, on something that has a max 24 hour resolution time
12:27<edeca>"sir, how about you try changing the username and password in your router to our test ones?"
12:28<edeca>"sure, but will that fix the fact that all the packets which come from the exchange have a bad CRC and the line has been retraining for 3 days?"
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12:40<SpComb^>although I kind of suspect that changes to TOWN_GROWTH_FREQEUNCY aren't perfectly linear
12:42<SpComb^>but given, there's random factor, so just comparing two games won't tell you much
12:43<@peter1138>planetmaker, patch posted :)
12:52<SpComb^>but a town pop of 2.5k in 2050 with 1x seems to be a town pop of about 1k in 2050 with 2x :/
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12:56*planetmaker goes checking forums :-)
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13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: translators * r18529 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: croatian - 45 changes by UnderwaterHesus
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: finnish - 42 changes by Tve4, jpx_
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: hungarian - 4 changes by IPG
13:45<CIA-4>OpenTTD: italian - 11 changes by lorenzodv
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14:34<@Belugas>wow... that is a big departure...
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>wtf?
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14:41<@Belugas>quite indeed
14:41<@Belugas>manque de café moi...
14:43*planetmaker donne de café à Belugas
14:44<SpComb^>but man, playing with a 4x daylength is awesome, first time ever that I've actually had a network of E62/E52 engines
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14:44<Sacro>i do love daylength
14:44<SpComb^>although this really does require smaller levels of passenger traffic in the 1920's, because you only start out with the pre-war coaches
14:45<SpComb^>it's absolutely ridiculous to have a town with 7k pop, and then you have a million trains hauling a million of those tiny tiny coaches
14:45<thingwath>Hm, I could try daylenght instead of just manually setting time back occasionaly in the cheat menu. :)
14:45<SpComb^>or rather, very challenging
14:46<planetmaker>he :-)
14:46<SpComb^>thingwath: you have to chose carefully when it comes to daylength
14:46<SpComb^>but so far, having played without industries, the #1 issue is town growth
14:47<SpComb^>and then when you combine it with cargodist, #2 is too many passengers, and #3 is disproportionally many passengers on intra-city tram lines
14:47<SpComb^>or perhaps not so disproportionate, but unmanagement
14:47<SpComb^>*unmanagement amounts of
14:48<planetmaker>unmanagable?
14:49<SpComb^>subconscious typo
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14:50<Prof_Frink>Muphry's Law.
14:50<SpComb^>you don't say
14:55<Eddi|zuHause>i really don't understand how HeightMapSmoothSlopes guarantees that there are no invalid slopes...
14:58<@Belugas>planetmaker : du. not de :D
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause>so café is not "good"?
14:59<CIA-4>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18530 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18304): Width property set on window instead of width.
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>my french teacher always taught the rule "everything that is good is female" ;)
15:00<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it's magic ;)
15:00<planetmaker>oh, he :-)
15:00<planetmaker>I never got du, de, des etc right ;-)
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>of course my teacher was female ;)
15:02<planetmaker>Belugas: but I can count the café :-P
15:02<@Belugas>Le café est très bon. Juste pas assez fort...
15:02<planetmaker>one atom, two atom,...
15:02<@Belugas>Un Café deux café trois expresso, quatre toilettes...
15:02<planetmaker>:-P
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15:03<@Belugas>un café, du café. Une tasse de café
15:04<@peter1138>"A café"
15:04<@Belugas>A BoiRE!
15:04<Muxy>Un café
15:04<Prof_Frink>"Brew".
15:04<@peter1138>McAfee
15:04<@Belugas>Beer
15:04<Muxy>
15:04<Muxy>not fee
15:04<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Your round.
15:04<@peter1138>McAfé anti-virus?
15:04<@Belugas>not today, wednesday i was
15:05<@Belugas>round -> rond -> ivre -> drunk
15:05<@Belugas>bwuauauaua!!!
15:05<Prof_Frink>You make no sense.
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: does that still exist?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>hm... -14,3°C
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>cooooold
15:06<thingwath>whoa, time to go outside, I guess :)
15:06<@peter1138>McAfee does
15:06*Prof_Frink wants snow
15:07<Prof_Frink>thingwath: Was nice out earlier.
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>i have snow
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>beautiful one
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>3cm-ish
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15:07<@Belugas>Prof_Frink : i do.... [15:04] <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Your round. -> You're round -> t'es rond -> t'es ivre -> you're drunk : [15:04] <@Belugas> not today, wednesday i was
15:07<@Belugas>pffff.... i've got to spell it out....
15:08<Prof_Frink>Belugas: You still make no sense, and it's still your round.
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: i'm still not convinced it actually makes sense ;)
15:09<thingwath>Prof_Frink: earlier? it's still early enough :) only problem is that I cannot find my hat :(
15:10<Prof_Frink>thingwath: Well, I was out earlier. Like the England cricket team.
15:11<Prof_Frink>It was even sunny when I started
15:13<thingwath>9 pm isn't that late, trams are still running. Just... where is that hat.
15:14<Prof_Frink>Trams? Trams ain't been running in *years*.
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: so that was 3 days ago? :p
15:15<Prof_Frink>Breathe, breathe in the air
15:16<thingwath>I have plenty of trams. But not the hat.
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15:17<@Belugas>i do make perfect sens!
15:17<@Belugas>you're not just wicked and twisted to understand it!
15:18<Prof_Frink>That's a reversal of normality.
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>what's normal?
15:18<Prof_Frink>I'm ususally two too many steps removed from reality for other people to understand, and it's *still* your round!
15:18<@Belugas>whatever is not realistic
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>so your two steps and his two steps make four steps...
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>with a wall inbetween
15:20<@Belugas>the count is then complete, you can resume your samba
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>or an ocean :p
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15:20<@Belugas>hem... rumba... not samba...
15:20<@Belugas>sorry
15:21<Prof_Frink>Mulpic.
15:21<thingwath>an ocean... four steps wide!
15:21<Prof_Frink>Big steps.
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>seven-mile-steps
15:22<thingwath>which mile? :)
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15:22<Eddi|zuHause>saxon postal mile
15:22<@Belugas>Mile Davis1
15:22<@Belugas>Mile Davis!
15:22<@Belugas>grrrr
15:22<Prof_Frink>Statute would only get you across the Straits of Dover
15:22<thingwath>hm, another mile that I don't know.
15:23<Prof_Frink>thingwath: Yorksher mile.
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursächsische_Postmeile
15:23-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@251.140.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd
15:23<@Belugas>Mile itaire
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>1 Mile = 2 "hours" = 9062,08m
15:24<@Belugas>i guess i should go back to work...
15:24<Prof_Frink>Nooooooooooooo!
15:24<Prof_Frink>Work is for the week!
15:25<thingwath>hm, that's almost excatly the distance I have to walk to get beer, and back
15:25*Eddi|zuHause should introduce Belugas to the german concept of "Freitag nach Eins"
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>[meaning: fridays at 1 o'clock everybody stops working]
15:26<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: does that work in school too? Get a 1 for a test and a free day?
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not entirely sure ;)
15:27<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: 1 o'clock? That's late for me
15:29<Prof_Frink>Quite a few Fridays this year finished on Thursday :)
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15:38<SpComb^>is there a hotkey for remove-signal?
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>r?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>s,r?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>there needs to be a hotkey for convert signal...
15:40<SpComb^>yay, r
15:40<SpComb^>it's nice for rail-building because you can just use Ctrl
15:41<SpComb^>for convert signals you can do Ctrl-click
15:41<SpComb^>although perhaps that shouldn't cycle between path signals and normal signals
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: there's a setting for that
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>block-only, path-only or both
16:00<@peter1138>hey what?
16:02<Prof_Frink>what hey?
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16:12<@peter1138>who knows
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16:22<SpComb^>wtf, I got the BR18, the local passenger coach, and the mainline mail van
16:22<SpComb^>ENOSENSE
16:25<SpComb^>ah well, I guess they come along slowly, got the mainline passenger coach now
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16:34<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18531 /trunk/src/ (roadstop.cpp roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3384] (r18404): for articulated road vehicles only the first part was accounted for, so for extremely short fronts and lots after it the spreading did not work as it should.
16:34<SpComb^>and my trains seem to have problems finding their way into depots
16:34<Rubidium>automagically?
16:35<+glx>Muxy: UTF-8 please :) (yeah I'm reading back)
16:35<+glx><planetmaker> I never got du, de, des etc right ;-) <-- easy, "du" = "de le"
16:36<CIA-4>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18532 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Codechange/Fix (r18404): don't leave the road stop between tiles, just stay on it. This prevents the rare cases where a road vehicle would stop exactly on the border where it could not load
---Logclosed Fri Dec 18 16:43:34 2009
---Logopened Fri Dec 18 16:43:43 2009
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16:43-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 119 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 112 normal]
16:43<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45815&p=841561
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16:43<@peter1138>^ hehe... "i had a patch for that"
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16:44<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: well, it was not newstation-able
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16:45<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, could be done
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16:46<Eddi|zuHause>i expect your updated patch by tomorrow, then :p
16:46<+glx><@peter1138> ^ hehe... "i had a patch for that" <-- long time you didn't say that ;)
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16:47<SpComb^>something's broken with the send-train-to-depot routing for me, it only works if the train is one or two signals away from the depot
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16:48<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: there should be a setting how many pathfinder-penalties it may accumulate
16:48<@peter1138>hmm
16:49<frosch123>only in trunk though
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure if cargodist is up to date yet
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16:59<@Belugas>select * from rdb$dependencies where rdb$depended_on_name = 'PROCESSOR_NUM'
16:59<@Belugas>select * from rdb$dependencies where rdb$field_name = 'PROCESSOR_NUM'
16:59<@Belugas>ho...
16:59<@Belugas>ooops....
16:59<@Belugas>sorry
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17:02<@Belugas>right... time to go now... loosing it
17:02<@Belugas>ciao all!
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>have a snowy weekend!
17:10<SpComb^>yeah, I'm playing with r18495 for cargodist
17:11-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejl116.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit []
17:11<SpComb^>had to dump all of my BR75's in 1927 because they aren't powerful enough to pull a full 5-tile consist of local wagons :(
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17:14<Eddi|zuHause>with realistic acceleration i never had problems pulling any passenger consist
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>except a VT 98 with an (overweight) trailer
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>a VT 98 trailer should weigh like 18t, but the passenger coach doesn't change its weight, so it's 40t
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's "apparently" fixed in 0.9... but alas...
17:16<Rubidium>you mean 0.vapourware?
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>exactly... but the last time i called it that (like two days ago), he immediately contered with a sarcastic remark...
17:19<Rubidium>sarcastic? I'd imagine it's just his normal way of writing
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17:27<frosch123>night
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17:52<thingwath>It is not that cold outside.
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18:59<dexter>hi all
19:00<dexter>how I can put opponents in multiplayer games?
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>the server must do that
19:01<dexter>in lan game
19:02<dexter>?
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19:11<@Belugas>mmh... Defying Gravity does not seems to have any kind of remotely possibility to be seen
19:11<@Belugas>but yeah, they'll put on a dvd...
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19:13<Eddi|zuHause>i think i have up to episode 13 here...
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>but i haven't seen the last 4
19:21<@Belugas>neither
19:21<@Belugas>sadly...
19:22<@Belugas>damned good show :(
19:22*Belugas is going on tv mode
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19:57<terinjokes> TrueBrain oh yes... i know that one
20:27<terinjokes>TrueBrain, Rubidium: terin@THEDESKTOP-LINUX:~/documents/Base2$ file a.out
20:28<terinjokes>a.out: Mach-O executable i386
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20:33<Eddi|zuHause>is that a "it works"?
20:34<terinjokes>Eddi|zuHause: my assumption.... need a mac to test it on
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20:46<+glx>looks like a mac intel exe
20:47<SpComb^>yay, 1921, first BR01/Rheingold service
20:47<SpComb^>*1932
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20:54<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of my old miniin game, where i was insane enough to start a daylength 32 game
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>i managed 5 years until the game became unplayably slow (with around 100 trains, mostly BR 38)
21:10<Sacro>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRYwH9suXAU
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21:16<SpComb^>I think 4x is pretty good
21:16<SpComb^>occasionally bump up to 1x
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21:27<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i'm usually doing either 4 or 8
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 19 00:00:10 2009