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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-21

---Logopened Mon Dec 21 00:00:13 2009
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03:01<terinjokes>TrueBrain: building works, except I need to work out how I'm linking to libraries
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03:28<@peter1138>er, what, how should i remove the s in drwxrwsr-x?
03:28<Noldo>cvhmod g-s ?
03:29<@peter1138>oh, that works
03:29<@peter1138>i was trying chmod 0775 :d
03:41<dihedral>interesting, that should actually work too, due to the leading 0
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04:12<@peter1138>that's what i thought
04:12<@peter1138>but it doesn't
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04:16<Alberth>chmod(1) agrees with you: "... a directory’s set-user-ID and set-group-ID ... and you can set (but not clear) the bits with a numeric mode."
04:23<@peter1138>bloody stuff
04:24<@peter1138>it's not like i'm a unix noob ;(
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04:32<pavel1269>problem at windows :-) ... cygwin succesfully removed some privileges, and now i cant even run it, and only way i know to return those privileges is by cygwin ... what now? :P
04:32<planetmaker>re-install cygwin :-P
04:33<pavel1269>cant acces some filders still
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04:33<pavel1269>and making when it break, new and new folder for cygwin is ...
04:35<Alberth>peter1138: it does seem kind of strange to only change with chmod in symbolic mode, but no doubt there is a good rationale for it.
04:36<planetmaker>"has always been that way" - does that suffice? ;-)
04:36<pavel1269>lol, gonna try CHMOD-Win :-)
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04:38<Alberth>planetmaker: 'for historical reasons' is also good, never change a working system without real need :)
04:38<planetmaker>never touch a running system and never run a touchy system?
04:39<Alberth>yes, we should stop OpenTTD dev immediately
04:39<@peter1138>probably because "chmod 755" would get rid of it, or something
04:40<Alberth>but there are such weird users, wanting more and more features every year :)
04:40<planetmaker>Alberth: the only problem with hardware (or with a whole system for that matter) most often is: there's no such convenient thing as 'hg revert' or alike
04:41<Alberth>with virtual machines, you have the 'whole system' quite easily :)
04:42<Alberth>but for hardware, it is somewhat more difficult :)
04:42<planetmaker>with virtual machines virtually anything is rvertable. But... ^
04:42<pavel1269>yay, i got it to work ...
04:43*Alberth considers setting up a hg repo at /
04:43<pavel1269>btw, is here a way, i can run just chmod.exe with parameters?
04:43<planetmaker>Alberth: it might make sense. Maybe not for / but for /etc
04:43<planetmaker>That's what we did on our devzone server :-D
04:44<Alberth>I was more realistically thinking of doing that for the ~/.* config files of all apps.
04:44<planetmaker>well, but that's your personal dir, is it?
04:45<Alberth>yep, and I work at something like 3 machines, so some sharing may be beneficial
04:45<planetmaker>we did it with /etc so that changes are kinda documented... and it works moderately well. And testing is also easy: just edit and if it doesn't work, just revert.
04:46<Alberth>yeah, sounds good.
04:46<Alberth>I did something similar for a buildbot I run @ work
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04:54<@peter1138>~/.config/ is good, btw
04:54<@peter1138>keeps ~ a bit clearer
04:54<@peter1138>or would do if everything used it ;)
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05:27<Sacro>peter1138: shouldn't that be $XDG_CONFIG_DIR or something
05:27<Sacro>rather than hardcoding .config
05:27<@peter1138>well yes
05:28<Sacro>no, $XDG_CONFIG_HOME
05:29<@peter1138>and _DIRS
05:30<@peter1138>hmm, so which part of openttd's .openttd is data, and which is config? heh
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05:34<Terkhen>good morning
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06:14<SpComb^> <-- vehicle_gui.cpp:184: byte GetBestFittingSubType(Vehicle*, Vehicle*): Assertion `HasBit(e_for->info.refit_mask, v_from->cargo_type)' failed
06:19<SpComb^>in latest trunk
06:21<Alberth>a better place would be
06:21<@peter1138>a better place would be at home, with a bacon butty
06:23<SpComb^>oh look, trunk already has a setting to slow down/speed up town growth
06:23<Alberth>peter1138: definitely
06:23<SpComb^>Alberth: cba :(
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06:32<@peter1138>Mem: 2063496k total, 2045860k used
06:32<@peter1138>Swap: 1951888k total, 1950992k used
06:33<Alberth>doing a HD test :p
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11:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18583 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add WWT_SHADEBOX widget and its functions (heavily based on code by erikjanp).
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11:12<planetmaker>nice :-)
11:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18584 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Generalize MakeWidgetTree to read only one widget (recursively).
11:13*planetmaker wonders whether it is curstom to add (bigger) features only around Christmas...
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11:13<Zuu>Hmm, what is a shade box?
11:13<planetmaker>like reduce window to its title bar only
11:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18585 /trunk/src/ (date_type.h genworld_gui.cpp table/settings.h tile_type.h): -Codechange: replace some magic numbers by constants
11:13<planetmaker>and back
11:14<planetmaker>(I only know as I recall that patch)
11:14<planetmaker>and added the grfs to OpenGFX today ;-)
11:14<Alberth>more a matter of devs having more time around xmas probably :)
11:14<Zuu>I know the feature, after all I've implemented it in Junctioneer since many many years, though under a different name. :-)
11:15<planetmaker>he :-) I don't find "shading" a intuitive name for that feature...
11:15<planetmaker>but then... who cares? ;-)
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11:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18586 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3398]: pressing default for the starting year/snow line height edit boxes of the world generation windows didn't work.
11:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18587 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp): -Codechange: Insert a shade selection widget in the widget tree when the window starts with a title bar with a shade box.
11:18<Alberth>I don't think I will use it much :)
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11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18588 /trunk/src/ (22 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#2943]: Add shading and unshading of windows.
11:25<Alberth>now you can test :)
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11:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18589 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Add tooltip to some network windows, remove old comment.
11:35<Alberth>although the red info circle did work, the title bar just got a bit higher
11:36<Alberth>btw, the sweets factory in the form of a big cake is brilliant.
11:37<Alberth>the plastic fountains could use some more work though imo
11:39<planetmaker>well... The fountains are ok IMO - but if you have a more detailed advise... maybe it can be helped :-)
11:40<planetmaker>hm... irritating is the resize of the title bar when activating shading and de-activating it.
11:43<Alberth>perhaps a thicker and slower (pulsing) stream from each fountain? now it looks just a bit of random sputtering to me. Also, the floor underneath the fountains is too clean.
11:46<Alberth>yes, the resizing takes some getting used to. Advantage is that you need less space. I haven't yet decided the best idea there.
11:47<Alberth>The width should be preservable by a clever rx and ry value to ReInit() in SetShaded.
11:47<Alberth>but first some food :)
11:48<Alberth>you can use the scrollwheel at the caption for (un)shading.
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11:54<planetmaker>enjoy your food :-)
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12:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18590 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3397]: too strict assert was triggered
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13:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18591 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix [FS#3399]: FindScrollbar could trigger an assert if the next widget (in the widget array) was a container-ish (e.g. selection) widget
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13:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18592 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r18591): argh... save after starting the commit :(
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13:18<SpComb^>you're wasting revision numbers :o
13:19<@Rubidium>yeah... I want that party badly :)
13:20<Zuu>While reaching 1.0 is seen as totaly irrelevant, even number revision numbers are seen as an excelent excuse for a party. :-)
13:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18593 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix: GetWidget call case similar to r18591
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13:24<Alberth>reaching 1.0 takes way too long to wait for :)
13:26<planetmaker>nearly any time is a good time for a party ;-)
13:26<planetmaker>hurray for the odd revision number party ;-)
13:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: yeah, like nailing someone to a piece of wood :)
13:27<planetmaker>for the 2009th time?
13:27<@Rubidium>hmm 425 commits a month (extrapolating from previous month)
13:28<@Rubidium>@calc (3+21/31) * 425 + 18593
13:28<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 20155.9032258
13:29<@Rubidium>oh, that's wrong
13:29<@Rubidium>@calc (3+10/31) * 425 + 18593
13:29<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 20005.0967742
13:29<@Rubidium>release 0.8 at r20000?
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13:32<pavel1269>31.3 2010 will be release 0.8 - pinned :-)
13:34<@Rubidium>people who know me know that that's not going to happen
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13:44<planetmaker>Rubidium: I'd like to upload a nightly of fish to bananas...
13:44<planetmaker>so that we can test it ingame in the next(?) PS game
13:45<planetmaker>I asked andy a few day ago and it was fine with him... but obviously he never got around to uploading it
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18594 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 7 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 47 changes by junho2813
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 7 changes by Zhygometh
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14:09<kratt>i need some who can edit vehicle stats in openttd
14:09<Gremnon>you can do that by newgrf, or editing the base code for them
14:09<Gremnon>take your pick
14:11<kratt>what is easiest way
14:11<frosch123>just download the "logic train" from bananas, it will suit all your needs
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14:12<Gremnon>there is learning NFO for grfs.... but that works just as well I guess
14:12<kratt>where can i see those logic trains
14:12<kratt>and what NFO for grfs
14:12<Gremnon>Start OpenTTD, click online content download, look in list
14:13<Gremnon>and NFO is the code that makes a grf work
14:15<kratt>nope there is no logic trains or banana
14:16<kratt>how can i edit that NFO
14:16<Gremnon>Have a look at the TTDPatch wiki, it even has a tutorial on it
14:16<kratt>but it is for TTDPatch
14:16<kratt>i dont got that
14:16<Gremnon>it also applies to openttd
14:18<Zuu>kratt: search for "logic"
14:18<Ammler>I might have limited the logic train for nightlies only
14:19<Zuu>Or click the in-game content download button and search for logic.
14:19<Ammler>as it is a bit cheating ;-)
14:19<Gremnon>So's running a road AI, not using roads yourselves, interconnecting all towns, and then starting 3 street traffic AIs to bog down the road AI
14:19<Gremnon>they seem to have a bit of trouble turning a profit then
14:20<pavel1269>are they even trying to have profit?
14:20<Gremnon>well, they try to, and often beat me after a few years
14:20<Gremnon>so I kill them off with the street traffic instead
14:20<Zuu>pavel1269: Why wouldn't the AIs try to get profit?
14:21<Ammler>kratt: source: and tar:
14:21<Zuu>As far as I know it it is only TownCars and StreetTraffic that does not aim for profit.
14:21<Zuu>And the regression AI if you count it.
14:21<Gremnon>Well, they're meant for eyecandy really... and getting in the way of actual trying to make profit road AIs
14:22<Zuu>Of course a road using company will have problem if the roads are clogged up.
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14:23<Gremnon>exactly why I run three when any road AI does better than me
14:23<Gremnon>petty and nasty, but that's the way I am
14:23<pavel1269>Zuu: at those AIs was my question exactly aimed
14:23<Zuu>pavel1269: Okay, then the answer is no. :-)
14:24<Zuu>TownCars is probably a bit more economical as it does not replace its vehicles.
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14:28<kratt>i cant see that logic train
14:28<kratt>i added it to newgrf
14:28<kratt>but nothing
14:29<Ammler>kratt: it looks like the toyland maglev and is called Something Gator
14:29<kratt>ok i see it now
14:30<kratt>did you make that yourself right now?
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14:30<Gremnon>... it's been there for a while, I'm sure
14:31<Ammler>if "right now" is around some months, yes
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14:34<kratt>can i edit it? or create a new one?
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14:39<Ammler>kratt: yes, it is GPL :-)
14:40<kratt>thanks ill try that
14:40<Ammler>easiest might be to replace the properities with Action6
14:40<Ammler>my source shows that with the speed.
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14:47<kratt>what is action6?
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14:47<planetmaker>kratt: newgrf is a format used by both, TTDP and OpenTTD
14:48-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
14:48<planetmaker>both support nearly all things equally, some are different but documented in the TTDP newgrf wiki
14:48<pavel1269>kratt: search at ttdp wiki
14:48<planetmaker>If you look at the authors you'll find the usual openttd devs are regular editors there, too
14:48*Gremnon wonders if people even remember how to look at TTDP/OTTD wikis anymore
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14:49<planetmaker> <-- it's my common referrer
14:49<planetmaker>hm.. Alberth is faster
14:49<planetmaker>and I nearly skipped the 's' in faster :-P
14:49<Alberth>but has less comment :)
14:49<kratt>thing is im looking this page already
14:50<kratt>and i extracted ammlers logic train
14:50<pavel1269>so dont ask that much questions, which are answered there?
14:50<planetmaker>you might rather than de-compile it... check out the source. That's far better readable
14:50<planetmaker>it's an open source newgrf.
14:51<kratt>i mean de-compiled okay
14:51<kratt>i got .tar
14:51<kratt>now i got .grf
14:51<Alberth>grfcodec can decompile a .grf
14:51<kratt>decompiled, now .nfo and .pcx
14:51<Ammler>why not using the source file, isn't that easier to read?
14:52<Alberth>it's not in the tar
14:52<kratt>you mean that Trac page u sent?
14:52<planetmaker>kratt: yes, sure.
14:52<planetmaker>or that link I gave.
14:53<kratt>okay im looking the source and decompiled
14:53<planetmaker>I mean... if you can afford to skip all comments, you can use the de-compiled version. Sure.
14:53<Ammler>today, I would make a Makefile :-)
14:54<kratt>lets say i want to change name and make speed 500mph
14:54<planetmaker>my example newgrf needs updating to my latest "standards"
14:54<kratt>i need to know how 500 is in hex?
14:55<Gremnon>I'm sure if you pass the right parameter to the grf in the newgrf window, it changes the speed to 500 for you
14:55<Gremnon>isn't that how it's meant to work?
14:55<Alberth>find how the name of a vehicle is encoded in the newgrf
14:55<Alberth>0x200 - 0xC = 0x1F4
14:56<Alberth>assuming the speed is encoded as m/h
14:57<Gremnon>... just how exactly does it work? you put in some number, it does something to it, and from that calculates the train's top speed?
14:57<Ammler>Gremnon: yes, the logic train grf has setable speed by parameter
14:57<Gremnon>hmm.... must experiment with this then
14:58<Ammler>and very high acceleration ;-)
14:58<Gremnon>I think my networks are about to get unrealistically quick...
14:58<Gremnon>have to play a japanset game with it. Japanese are always coming up with better stuff than the rest of the world
14:59<Gremnon>stands to reason they'd make it, 'natch
14:59<Ammler>it isn't meant to carry cargo, just for our "logic gates" networks
14:59<Gremnon>you made it, so I intend to quietly exploit it
14:59<Gremnon>'cause I can
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15:00<Ammler>but my nfo coding skills do just know Action0, so no idea how to restrict it to no waggons and such...
15:00<Gremnon>that's alright, even if you did, I'd use this version instead
15:01<kratt>i know that 500 in hex are 1F4
15:01<Gremnon>at least until the next time I stupidly overwrite my /home partition, anyway
15:01<Ammler>kratt: don't convert self, simply use escape sequences like \w500
15:02<Ammler>(also shown in the source) ;-)
15:02<kratt>but i need to compile it then
15:03-!-phalax [~phalax@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:03<Alberth>you need to handle the 1.6 factor, it seems, by reading the source
15:04<Ammler>Alberth: if you use miles
15:04<kratt>i know
15:04<Alberth>oh. I have no intention of using miles :)
15:04<Ammler>kratt: if you just like other speed, my grf already support that, you know?
15:05<kratt>your grf has 99km/h
15:05<Gremnon>if you give it the right parameter, that'd change though
15:06<Ammler>yep, as default, but you can change that by parameter, should also be explained in the source, in the description and here in the past chat lines.
15:06<planetmaker>lool, just loool
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15:07<planetmaker>I want to drive this car. Which wires do I have to short in order to start the engine and unlock the steering-wheel lock?
15:07<planetmaker>No, I don't want to use the key laying on the co-driver's seat
15:11<kratt>i think i sucessfully changed name of the vehicle
15:11<kratt>lets try it out
15:14<kratt>do i need to pack it
15:14<Gremnon>no, just put the .grf into your data folder
15:16<kratt>ouuu yes
15:16<kratt>i did it
15:20<kratt>when using compile not encode
15:20<kratt>does it compile to .grf directly or .nfo
15:21<Gremnon>I just realised I had a question to ask ages ago, and forgot about it
15:21<Gremnon>that question is.... what's OpenTTD's status on BSD-based systems?
15:21<frosch123>someone in this channel plays with freebsd, if you mean that
15:22-!-phalax [~phalax@] has joined #openttd
15:22<Gremnon>alright, let me rephrase that
15:22<Gremnon>for someone new to BSD, but not to Linux... is there really much difference in compiling it yourself?
15:22<@Rubidium>use gmake instead of make
15:23<Gremnon>... how is that different, besides the g
15:23<@Rubidium>because just using make will cause it to fail horribly
15:23<kratt>can you see my server
15:23<kratt>UDU Battlegrounds
15:23<kratt>i want to know
15:23<Gremnon>hmm... I think I'm going to see if I figure out BSD then and try it
15:23<@Rubidium>can you see it on
15:24<kratt>oo yes its up
15:24<kratt>i have problems with 1 main line
15:25<kratt>im pretty lowbob compared to openttdcoop they makin there
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15:26<Alberth>almost everybody is, I think
15:26<Alberth>you need a group of people to set something like their game up
15:28<planetmaker>indeed. Alone it'd take me ages to get the stuff built to that scale over the whole map
15:29<planetmaker>what is built on the server in one week, it'd take me a year or so
15:29<planetmaker>but then... I nearly don't play single player.
15:30<planetmaker>only for testing purposes ;-)
15:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18595 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18277): one couldn't enter test via the keyboard in the company password window. Also replace a magic number with a enumified constant.
15:35-!-Grelouk [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
15:40<kratt>1 dude joined my game
15:40-!-Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
15:40<kratt>can i change value of the train?
15:40<kratt>or some multiplyer
15:42<PeterT>What do you guys think of my wiki page?
15:46-!-lewymati [] has quit []
15:48<Alberth>nested windows reference is not relevant imho
15:48<PeterT>I think it is
15:48<Alberth>also you didn't mention how to shade/unshade.
15:48<PeterT>it's why I put it under Development
15:49-!-batti5 [~batti5@] has joined #openttd
15:49<Alberth>answer: click at the shade button or use the mousewheel at the caption or shade box.
15:49<Alberth>why is it relevant
15:50<PeterT>Delete it if you wish
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15:51<batti5>Hi, can anybody give me a link to a ottd updater/downloader, i cant find one
15:51<Alberth>intro screen, 'online content' button
15:51<Gremnon>hmm, I'm sure last time I checked the forum's search function would at least have found a result on that
15:52<Alberth>no need to search yourself, we have PeterT now
15:52<batti5>i tryed it, it gives a 404 error
15:52<PeterT>What does?
15:53<Gremnon>y'know, it could just be me, but people seem to be getting more reliant on other people using this magic thing called 'search' rather than doing it themselves...
15:53<batti5>so does,
15:53<PeterT>Works fine for me
15:53<planetmaker>it comes and goes in waves. We have to turn ugly again, I guess. People assume we're their human google equivalent
15:54<kratt>how to compile
15:54<kratt>what file should it be
15:54<batti5>can you give me a direct link ,exe or .zip?
15:54<Gremnon>this is interesting. A search for 'OpenTTD updater' on the forums, asking for topics instead of posts, returns an EXACT match for what you're after
15:55<Gremnon>result number 3, to be even more exact
15:55<PeterT>kratt: Don't use cygwin
15:55<Prof_Frink>jonty-comp: Lies.
15:55<batti5>Internal Server Error, i get for tt-forum
15:56<Gremnon>I think you need to do something about your internet
15:56<Gremnon>it sounds broken
15:56<Gremnon>because both it and OpenTTD's site work perfect for me
15:56<batti5>but the web works fine
15:56<Gremnon>apparantly not, if it works for us, but not you
15:56<PeterT>Gremnon: Think again. I get the same 404 for attau's user page.
15:57<Gremnon>nope, no 404 here
15:57<andythenorth>are oil pipelines such a bad idea?
15:57<PeterT>But tt-forums is working
15:57<Gremnon>both work for me
15:57<Gremnon>andythenorth: It would seem to me to defeat the idea of transporting it by vehicles, which is what the game is about
15:58<kratt>PeterT what should i use then
15:58<PeterT>MSYS && MinGW
15:58<PeterT>or MSVC
16:01<kratt>i got this
16:01<kratt>how can i compile stuff like that
16:02<jonty-comp>Prof_Frink: truths
16:02<andythenorth>Gremnon: I agree
16:02<andythenorth>why is transporting oil so fricking *dull*.
16:02<andythenorth>or is it just me that finds it that way?
16:02<andythenorth>maybe it needs flashing lights and some music
16:03<Gremnon>there's always your handy media player for that
16:03<Prof_Frink>jonty-comp: TSMS is a *long* song.
16:03<Gremnon>besides, if transporting oil is dull, doesn't that make pretty much everything else the same?
16:05<andythenorth>somehow not. for whatever bizarre reason, transporting coal and iron ore is kind of fun. And I *really* like transporting wood
16:05<andythenorth>perhaps it's because of the Ren and Stimpy log song. But I doubt it
16:05-!-batti5 [~batti5@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:05<Gremnon>well, I guess you're welcome to code it, but TBH, I don't see the point in piplines. You just lay down a pipeline, and it does the rest. No further intervention required
16:06<Alberth>and if you bury the pipeline, there is even nothing to see
16:08<PeterT>And if it's not buried, it's just annoying
16:08<kratt>how the hell i compile that with grfcodec
16:08<PeterT>Open a command line
16:08<Gremnon>you could read the readme that comes with it. At least I think one comes with it
16:09<PeterT>grfcodec.exe -c <grf_name>.grf
16:10<planetmaker>of course it comes with a readme
16:10<planetmaker>and if called w/o parameter it tells you
16:10<Gremnon>eh, I usually compile it myself, and ignore it, so I don't remember these things
16:11<Gremnon>besides, on Win, if you do that, it opens a prompt then closes it again
16:12-!-__teeone is now known as teeone
16:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18596 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: Add padding to several town generation buttons and labels for nice and consistent layout.
16:12<PeterT>Sounds like kratt has all the correct files, he just wants us to push the buttons for him
16:13<Gremnon>... please don't word things that way again. Especially not with the word buttons.
16:13-!-andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:14<Alberth>sorry :)
16:14<Gremnon>I think I need to scrub my brain, or at least my eyes
16:14<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18597 /trunk/src/ (news_func.h news_gui.cpp statusbar_gui.cpp): -Fix (r17147)[FS#3395, FS#3396]: ChangeVehicleNews() did not update the news ticker.
16:15<Gremnon>Another question
16:15<Gremnon>In TTD, even ticker-ified news could be cancelled with the spacebar. Why does OTTD not do this also?
16:15-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
16:15<kratt>i cant do it PeterT nothing happens
16:16<PeterT>kratt: Consult the readme
16:16<PeterT>It should have been provided
16:16-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
16:16<Gremnon>and don't listen to how much it asks you to pay for the consultation
16:16<kratt>there is no readme
16:18<PeterT>you're right
16:18<PeterT>open a cmd
16:18<PeterT>and change your directory to where grfcodec.exe is
16:18<Gremnon>you're being too technical PeterT. It's like this
16:19<Gremnon>Click Start, then run
16:19<Gremnon>then type CMD
16:19<Gremnon>then use 'cd' to change to the folder grfcodec is in - for example cd C:\grfcodec
16:19<Gremnon>then finally type grfcodec, and it will explain itself for you
16:19<PeterT>no, type 'grfcodec.exe'
16:20<Gremnon>eh, minor detail
16:20<PeterT>Would it have worked without?
16:20<Gremnon>no idea
16:20<Gremnon>I think so though
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16:20<Gremnon>Windows is a bit less restrictive about things like that, IIRC
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16:21<frosch123>hmm, why is a bug present for 4 months reported twice within 8 hours
16:22<andythenorth>ok, so help me with root cause analysis....I think transporting oil is dull. Why?
16:22-!-PeterT [] has joined #openttd
16:22<andythenorth>I ask seriously I have to sort out the FIRS economy a bit
16:22<Gremnon>I don't know... is it because you have oil rigs?
16:22<@Rubidium>frosch123: random events cluster
16:23<andythenorth>is it because default oil wells have low production and close irritatingly?
16:23<andythenorth>is it the graphics?
16:23<andythenorth>is it just a boring industry chain?
16:23<Gremnon>all of those three points can be changed, you know
16:23<andythenorth>I do know :P
16:24<Gremnon>so try changing bits of them until you're no longer bored with it
16:24*frosch123 hardly transports oil when using default industries
16:24<_ln>does someone know english here? is it grammatical to say "comparing with an iterator is invalid"? (can one use an adjective like that, without a noun?)
16:24<andythenorth>ah, evidence...why not? :)
16:25<andythenorth>(that was at frosch123 no _ln !)
16:25<andythenorth>not /s
16:25<frosch123>wells stay for tens of years on the map unless i connect them, and oilrigs produce too few for ships
16:25<PeterT>does someone know english here? <-- me speeke tha english good!
16:25<andythenorth>frosch123: would a small number of high production sources of oil be more fun?
16:26<andythenorth>in rl, oil is barely transported by train or truck, almost entirely by pipe and ship
16:26<frosch123>it would allow ship usage :)
16:26<andythenorth>how about scrapping oil wells, and just having refineries produce though supplied by pipe?
16:26<andythenorth>but keeping oil rigs
16:27<Gremnon>if by newgrf, then I wouldn't mind that
16:27<Gremnon>I wouldn't use it though
16:27<andythenorth>Gremnon: all of this is in the context of the FIRS set.
16:27<frosch123>andythenorth: as you advance over time in firs, maybe you could split the usage. in the early days there is only some oil on land, which is used as production booster, later there are masses on water, which are needed in masses at refineries
16:28<andythenorth>frosch123: seems like a plan
16:29<andythenorth>some crude oil moves by rail it seems:
16:33<kratt>can GRF wizard change values of train speed, power, date
16:33<kratt>i know how to decode, encode
16:34<Gremnon>GRF wizard is just a graphic frontend to grfcodec
16:34<kratt>i want to edit that .nfo so that it will work
16:34<kratt>so it wont work
16:34<kratt>how i can make new .nfo
16:34<Gremnon>it will decode or encode .grfs for you using a graphic program
16:34<Gremnon>but you'll still have to edit the nfo yourself
16:34<kratt>so how do i edit .nfo
16:34<kratt>and what to write inside
16:34<Gremnon>I do believe you've ben refferred the TTDPatch Wiki's pages on it several times now
16:37<kratt>now i got what i wanted
16:37<kratt>1 guy saves the day after 3 hours of falling from 5th floor
16:38<andythenorth>I learnt the basics from Pikka Wiki.
16:39<andythenorth>now I have written at least a few lines of nfo
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16:39<andythenorth>so it can't be too hard
16:39<Gremnon>I learned from TTDPatch wiki
16:39<Gremnon>I still get lost easily in code, but keeping it to hand helps a lot
16:39<Gremnon>I just have to remember to run NFORenum before trying to encode again
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17:18<kratt>how to use renum
17:18<kratt>what command to use
17:18<Gremnon>same way you do grfcodec, pretty much
17:19<Gremnon>except it has to be done in the command line, there's no graphic way that I know of
17:20<kratt>can you tell me the exact line i need to write
17:20<Gremnon>'nforenum namehere.nfo'
17:20<Gremnon>that's it
17:21<Gremnon>if all else fails, ask in the nforenum thread
17:21<Zuu>didn't nforenum --help tell you?
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17:21<Gremnon>oh, btw Zuu - your Autoupdate site seems to be giving an error
17:21<kratt>it need cygwin
17:22<Gremnon>it just needs a command prompt
17:22<Gremnon>like the windows Cmd
17:22<kratt>it tells me cygwin.dll is missing
17:22<Gremnon>... wierd
17:22<Zuu>Gremnon: Works fine from here.
17:22<Zuu>Even after forcing reload.
17:23<Gremnon>hmm, give me a moment, I'll check again
17:23<Zuu>You did use ?
17:23<Gremnon>yep.... and oddly it's now working again
17:23<Gremnon>that's strange, it wasn't earlier... a 500 and a 404
17:23<Sacro>why would it need cygwin?
17:23<Zuu>Could be something with
17:24<kratt>i dont know
17:24<kratt>i can send pic if u want
17:24<kratt>it wants cygwin1.dll
17:24<Gremnon>kratt, have a look on the tt-forums thread for NFOrenum, and see if you can find the latest Windows one
17:24<planetmaker>and -grfcodec
17:25<planetmaker>those are nightlies and very much recommended
17:25-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
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17:26<+glx>and don't require cygwin dll
17:26<kratt>i got it
17:26<kratt>Error on sprite 1.
17:27<kratt>Error on sprite 9.
17:27<kratt>Created .renum directory in C:\Documents and Settings\Mina.
17:27<Zuu>Hmm, since they are on, would it be usefull to have grfcodec, nforenum on OpenTTDAU?
17:27<kratt>The sprite following sprite 11 could not be processed.
17:27<kratt>Error on sprite 9.
17:27<kratt>Processing complete.
17:27<kratt>what does that mean
17:27<+glx>means you have errors in your nfo
17:27<Zuu>You would have to add both install directories to PATH then.
17:27<kratt>how can i have errors
17:28<kratt>i took example from ttdwiki
17:28<Gremnon>well, if you edit the NFO, and it doesn't like it, you'll get errors
17:28<DaleStan>Copy/paste error, most likely.
17:28<Gremnon>NFORenum is designed to catch them
17:28<kratt>but i dont know what i need to edit there
17:28<Gremnon>it does help to know what to edit where first
17:29<DaleStan>It also helps to look at the error messages that are now in the NFO.
17:29<kratt>Escapes: 2+ = 71 = D= = DR 2- = 70 = D+ = DF 2< = 7= = D- = DC 2> = 7! = Du* = DM 2u< = 7< = D* = DnF 2u> = 7> = Du<< = DnC 2/ = 7G = D<< = DO 2% = 7g = D& 2u/ = 7gG = D| 2u% = 7GG = Du/ 2* = 7gg = D/ 2& = 7c = Du% 2| = 7C = D% 2^ 2sto = 2s 2rst = 2r 2+ 2ror = 2rot
17:29<kratt>pretty useful
17:29<DaleStan>That aint an error message.
17:30<kratt>i cant paste here nomore
17:30<kratt>i dont know why
17:30<Gremnon>isn't there where you can put things like, oh, the contents of the nfo now that NFOrenum has run through it
17:30<Gremnon>so we can see the whole lot?
17:31<Gremnon>I believe that's the correct link, and all
17:32<kratt>i got that .pcx ammler send me
17:32<kratt>and just renamed that logic.pcx
17:33<kratt>i looked what i edit from here
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17:37<DaleStan><kratt> <-- I suggest you start with the first line containing the word "Error". According to the documentation:
17:37<DaleStan>51: "<type> unexpected here." (Error)
17:37<DaleStan>There was no reason to expect a <type> sprite here; the immediately
17:37<DaleStan>preceeding sprite was not an Action 1/5/A/11/12.
17:37<DaleStan>Remove the sprite, or add an action 1/5/A/11/12.
17:37<DaleStan>Note that "* 1 00" is interpreted as a real sprite in action 1 blocks and
17:37<DaleStan>most action 5 blocks.
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17:39<kratt>okay what did you just say?
17:39<kratt>how to fix it
17:41<Prof_Frink>It makes no indication of how far in fron observer A is. Could be several miles down the track and step out of the way.
17:43<DaleStan>I just said you need an action 1, 5, A, 11, or 12 between sprite 0 and sprite 1. Most likely an action 1, but there are cases where that would be incorrect.
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17:47<kratt>im looking the example in wiki
17:47<kratt>there is action1 already there
17:48<DaleStan>But there isn't one in your NFO.
17:48<DaleStan>Which is where it matters.
17:48<kratt>1 SPRITES\logic.pcx 0 0 01 24 8 -3 -12
17:48<kratt>this is action1
17:48<kratt>defining the sprite
17:49<DaleStan>No, that's sprite 1.
17:49<kratt>where is action1 then
17:49<kratt>im lookin there
17:49<DaleStan>Nohere. Which is the problem.
17:50<DaleStan>In the example, it's the line containing an asterisk.
17:50<Ammler>he, why do you have real sprites?
17:50<kratt>what u mean
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17:50<kratt>i use your logic.pcx
17:51<DaleStan>I have no logic.pcx.
17:51<DaleStan>Ergo it isn't mine.
17:51<Ammler>mine doesn't have real spries
17:51<kratt>so what do you have?
17:51<Eddi|zuHause2><planetmaker> for the 2009th time? <-- your calculation is off... the "nailing to a piece of wood" was the death, on christmas, the birth is celebrated, which was like 30 years earlier and the base of the year number. [besides the monk that did the calculation of jesus' birth was off by a few years as well]
17:52<DaleStan>A broken crystal ball, among other things. But that's irrelevant. As is (at this point) the contents of *your* logic.pcx. It doesn't even need to *exist* yet.
17:53<kratt>so when .pcx is made
17:54<DaleStan>Before you invoke grfcodec.
17:55<DaleStan>NFORenum doesn't care about the PCX, so it's irrelevant to any error messages that NFORenum in generating.
17:55<kratt>this is what works and is from decode
17:56<DaleStan>If that's Ammler's, then you're editing it incorrectly. ADD A BLOODY ACTION1. LIKE I ALREADY TOLD YOU.
17:57<Terkhen>good night
17:57<DaleStan>And why did you remove the action 6, 8, and D?
17:57-!-Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
17:57<kratt>i did not remove it
17:57-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:58<Ammler>or simply use my source, edit it and encode
17:59<kratt>yeh i try that that now
17:59<kratt>but can i use that \w100 thing also there
17:59<DaleStan>Well, they somehow vanished from your version, and NFORenum isn't in the habit of removing sprites, so that leaves you and the gremlins.
17:59<Ammler>please do also change the GRFID...
18:00<kratt>and btw why is your makegrf thing so weird
18:00<Ammler>kratt: we told you around 10 times, you can change the speed by parameter, no need to edit the nfo.
18:00<Gremnon>if you're trying to change the speed... I can't help but think that it's a lot simpler to find out what parameter to supply to the grf in the ingame grf list
18:00<Gremnon>eh, Ammler beat me to it
18:00<kratt>what parameter
18:00<kratt>or where i can edit that
18:00<Gremnon>you know when you open the newgrf list, there's that button at the bottom labelled 'Set Parameters'
18:01<Gremnon>that's where you do it
18:01<Ammler>@man parameter
18:01<kratt>you should say that 4 hours ago
18:01<Gremnon>.... it's in plain sight
18:01<kratt>ill try that
18:01<Gremnon>I assumed you'd noticed it already...
18:03<kratt>atleast i got smarter a bit
18:05<kratt>and how many parameters there are
18:05<Gremnon>for the logic train, 1, obviously
18:05<Gremnon>other GRF's may have more, and their readme's should be consulted then
18:08<kratt>so i write 1 200 if i want 200 speed?
18:08<kratt>1 parameter and value 200
18:09<Gremnon>I think there's some internal math involved actually, Ammler might know exactly how it works
18:09<Gremnon>experimentation is also a good way to find out
18:09<kratt>@man parameter
18:09<kratt>is that command?
18:09<Gremnon>no, I wouldn't worry about that one
18:11<kratt>i dont know the command
18:11<kratt>to set parameter 1 to 0 and parameter 2 to 3, you will type "0 3"
18:11<Gremnon>yep, that's right
18:11<kratt>so what does that mean
18:12<Gremnon>that means you put 0 3 in the box that appears when you clicked on Set Parameters
18:12<Gremnon>and then hit enter, and it's done
18:12<kratt>it worked
18:12<kratt>but it is so damn fast
18:12<kratt>even too fast
18:12<Gremnon>well, experiment to find the right speed then
18:12<Zuu>That you get when you asked for too much :-)
18:14<kratt>like speed is like 10 000 km/h
18:14<kratt>in 1 sec
18:14<kratt>like a shuttle
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18:15<Gremnon>like I said, there's some internal math involved, so you'll have to experiment to find a better speed
18:16<Zuu>Well, IRL 500 km/h is 139 m/s which is dam fast.
18:17<kratt>ahh enought
18:17<kratt>time to visit pillow
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18:18<Zuu>Indeed :-)
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think i have an idea how to do double-track with 8 more map bits (5 more for track configurations, 3 more for path reservations)
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'll see if i can write down a spec tomorrow...
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21:15<Eddi|zuHause>KTorrent: 3.3
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21:16<Eddi|zuHause>where did that come from?
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 22 00:00:14 2009