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#openttd IRC Logs for 2009-12-23

---Logopened Wed Dec 23 00:00:15 2009
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01:14<rhaeder>Error: Failed to find a music set. Please acquire a music set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt.
01:14<rhaeder>It always worked without music :(
01:15<rhaeder>I cannot disable this
01:15<rhaeder>morning all ;)
01:28<@Rubidium>how did you compile/install that?
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01:50<rhaeder>hi. sorry, was writing a shell script for ease download of nightlies :)
01:51<rhaeder>./configure --with-zlib --with-png --with-freetype --with-fontconfig --with-iconv --with-makedepend --enable-debug=3 --prefix-dir=/opt/
01:51<rhaeder>or are these --with-foo not required to set?
01:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18609 /trunk/ -Fix (r18608): installing of obm files didn't quite happen
01:53<@Rubidium>I'd leave out with-makedepend because makedepend is known to bork on OpenTTD
01:53<@Rubidium>you must keep --with-iconv (if you really want to use it), because that's not automatically selected
01:54<@Rubidium>and the other --withs should be automatically detected
01:54<rhaeder>./configure --enable-debug=3 --prefix-dir=/opt/ should be enougth for max debug build to /opt/
01:54<@Rubidium>if you did use make install with r18608 then music would probably be broken
01:54<rhaeder>in /opt/ I have write permission (gave myself) so I don't need $ su -c "make install" ;)
01:55<@Rubidium>rhaeder: yes, as long as you don't need iconv (which I've only seen needed by gentoo and OSX)
01:55<rhaeder>what is that for? translation?
01:56<@Rubidium>file name conversion from different... uhm... ways of encoding special characters
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01:58<rhaeder>ah, I recall :)
01:58<rhaeder>like UTF-8<->ISO<->WINDOWS-1252 for example
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02:00<rhaeder>works again :D
02:04<rhaeder>downloader is finished:
02:15<rhaeder>ok, see you later
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03:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18610 /trunk/src/music.cpp: -Codechange: don't consider a music set at all for 'best' set when it's missing files
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04:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18611 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r18608): uppercase-to-lowercase conversion when opening a file wasn't applied when finding the full path of a file
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05:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18612 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3407]: Buy vehicle window did not properly disable panel drawing while shaded.
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06:22<orava>hi. my server is saying "Client #86 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_freq to a higher value!" where I can increase this? can't find it in openttd.cfg
06:24<Alberth>perhaps in the console?
06:24<orava>isint there any file where I can do it?
06:25<orava>oh, yeah, ofccourse : )
06:25<Alberth>no idea
06:25<orava>so how I can see which value is it now and how much I must increase it?
06:26<Alberth>start with 'help'
06:27<Alberth>I never use the console, I am not even sure the variable is there, but it is about the only other place where it can be
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>it probably got renamed, but the console will know the old and the new name
06:28<orava>there is net_frame_freg and default was 1, so I increased it to 10
06:28<orava>have no idea what it mean but hopefully it helps : P
06:32<SpComb^>10 sounds a bit high
06:32<orava>it's like "joining timeout"? : P
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's like "process player commands only every X ticks" [so high values make the game less responsive]
06:33<Eddi|zuHause>only increase it in steps of 1
06:34<orava>and secondly, I want to increase max loan higher than ingame settings allow, so can I just increase it from openttd.cfg or do I have to use "diff custom's" ?
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>that's not possible
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>the same limits are enforced from the gui and the config
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>so setting higher values will be ignored
06:38<orava>oh, thought it was possible : /
06:41<orava>does those console variables reset when restart a game or are they written to file?
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06:49<SpComb^>orava: some are saved in the savegame, others are loaded from openttd.cfg
06:49<SpComb^>you can write it out with saveconfig
06:50<orava>SpComb^: ok
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07:50<planetmaker>my understanding that there's only one joint pool for stations and waypoints is correct, or?
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07:51<Eddi|zuHause>after the latest "make everything the same" spree, i presume yes
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>but you don't need to correct every single of HIS rants :p
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07:57<planetmaker>mr vapourware rants and talks w/o getting straight the facts.
07:58<planetmaker>and of course TTDP's concepts are far more advanced and thought through :-P
07:58<@peter1138>well he only posts on the german forum now doesn't he?
07:59<planetmaker>yes. There (most) people don't contradict him and he's the king
07:59<planetmaker>there he gets the awe he obviously thinks he deserves
08:01<planetmaker>mostly as there are only uwe, eddi, frosch, addi and myself (did I forget anyone?) who know a bit more about the internals.
08:01<planetmaker>well. 4mmler
08:04<planetmaker>many others still think that the miniIN is better than current nightlies :-P That speaks for itself :-P
08:05<SmatZ>for people who can't live without diagonal level crossings, miniIN is better than trunk ;)
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08:06<@peter1138>many people (in the UK) read the daily mail...
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08:48<Zuu>planetmaker: on some of the smaller non-official forums you can always find interesting opinions on how and why things work. :-)
08:48<Zuu>Hello Belugas
08:48<Zuu>At work just before Christmas?
08:49<@Belugas>you bet i am :(
08:49<Zuu>I guess you at least have a lot of space at the office. :-)
08:52<@Belugas>nope, Zuu
08:52<@Belugas>everyone is there, apart one guy
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08:52<Eddi|zuHause>you poor people...
08:53<@Belugas>peter1138. that's almost a dream machine :)
08:53<Zuu>Oh, I visited the company I'll make my thesis at yesterday and it was not a lot of people there. Especially the systems department only had a few people there. :-)
08:54<pavel1269>I think "reason" is better :-)
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08:58<@Belugas>note that i have a boss at home too. JUst that.. i dno't know which wok i like best... home work or work work...
08:59<@peter1138>music work
08:59<@Belugas>oh yeah !
09:01<@Belugas>but ooochy pricey
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09:15<@Belugas>i guess the other way around is to turn to asio digital processing...
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09:39<Ammler>if I build openttd locally, it doesn't scan /usr/share/.../data, is that intended ?
09:41<Ammler>ok, solved, forgot about local (/usr/local/...)
09:42<@peter1138>Belugas, cheaper, but less satisfaction
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09:43<@peter1138>Belugas, and you have to fuck around with a mouse instead of fiddling with knobs
09:47<@Belugas>well.. knobs.. on the floor... not too easy either ;)
09:48*Belugas has to practice a bit more knobs manipulation with feet
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>is it an undo knob? :p
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09:56<@Belugas>good joke, Eddi|zuHause, very good onoe :D
09:56<kratt>how to make crossover to main lines
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, it occasionally could come in handy with music :p
09:57<@Belugas>yeah.. i wish i had one from time to time...
09:57<kratt>i have double 2 line mainway
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>kratt: you might want to look at the ottdcoop wiki
10:01<kratt>there is too massive crossovers
10:01<kratt>i want littlebit smaller
10:01<SirSquidness>Is there any practical/easy way to get a 'slow' signal state, where if the signal ahead is red, the first signal will slow the train to n% speed?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>they also have ones for branch lines
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>SirSquidness: there are a few unfinished attempts and very old ones
10:02<SirSquidness>Eddi|zuHause: anything worth bothing with?
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10:04<Eddi|zuHause>SirSquidness: i'd try
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>there "advance signals v2" and the "slowdown hack"
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10:10<SirSquidness>I'm going to assume I have to compile advanecd_signals_v2.patch and advance_slowdown_hack.diff, which I have no idea how to do
10:11<SirSquidness>and since it's 2:10AM, I'll put it in the too hard basket and come back another day
10:11<SirSquidness>but thanks anyawy =)
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>SirSquidness: it's loosely based on this suggestion
10:15<SirSquidness>That's pretty much exactly the thing I'm thinking of
10:15<SirSquidness>except instead of having a pre signal and the signal itself, just every signal does presignalling and signalling
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>it has some flaws, like having two trains follow each other in close distance...
10:16<kratt>can somebody join my game i made and help me with my issue?
10:17<SirSquidness>true, Eddi|zuHause , but if you have a mainline with a slower train leading a faster train, that faster train is going to be stopping every few signals slowing everything behind it down again
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i have bad news:
10:17<SirSquidness>kratt: I can, depending on what version you're running
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>i know the problem, SirSquidness
10:17<SirSquidness>Eddi|zuHause: dammit, I just spent $200 on christmas crap today.
10:18<kratt>sirsquidness game name is UDU Battlegrounds
10:18<kratt>and you should see it
10:19<SirSquidness>is the snapshot from two or three nights ago backwards compatible with 0.74?
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>SirSquidness: not multiplayer-compatible
10:19<SirSquidness>didn't think so
10:19<SirSquidness>I can't help then
10:19<SirSquidness>well, not as suited to help than other
10:20<SirSquidness>oh wait.. I have the zip of 0.74. I can help after all.
10:20<kratt>i thought you had 0.7.4 and the nighty both
10:22<SirSquidness>kratt: I'm in
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10:49<pavel1269>Q: why does trains reverse even with wait_oneway_signal = 255, i must also set to 255 wait_for_pbs_path?
10:50<Ammler>yep, disable all
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10:56<kratt>join UDU Battlegrounds
11:00<AC6000> :P
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11:03<pavel1269>nice :-)
11:03<planetmaker>those folks who use OpenGFX might want to consider updating to 0.2.1 :-)
11:07<Zuu>pm: sure
11:08<@peter1138>did you fix the text ;)
11:08<planetmaker>this time I think I did :-)
11:09<planetmaker>I updated my release procedures... and they should be less error-prone now
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11:12<@peter1138>"OpenGFX 0.2.1"
11:13<planetmaker>:-) Uff
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12:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18613 /trunk/src/crashlog.cpp: -Codechange: add the music set to the crashlog too
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12:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r18614 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#3412](r18602): too many signs were drawn, causing slowdowns
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13:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18615 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: conditional orders were seen as 'valid' and as such aircraft with only conditional orders did not crash
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18616 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3413]: crash when the current order is a conditional order when a plane is checking whether it needs servicing
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18617 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 21 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 6 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
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14:19<planetmaker>damn. there have been untranslated strings :-(
14:20<planetmaker>and there have been many changes by an anonymous croation native speaker :-P
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14:45<@Belugas>his nsame is space
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14:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18618 /branches/0.7/ (7 files in 5 dirs): [0.7] -Update: documentation for 0.7.5
15:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18619 /tags/0.7.5/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.5
15:06<kratt>what is a traction or something like hat
15:06<kratt>for train
15:08<@Belugas>wooof wooof
15:08<SpComb^>crash when removing a waypoint, although perhaps its just r18495
15:09<kratt>and what are those new signals
15:09<kratt><-> and its red
15:09<PeterT>Wiki done:
15:10<@Rubidium>18495 or 18495M?
15:11<SpComb^>more specifically, segfault when viewing what used to be the waypoint :P
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15:16<PeterT>Warning when compiling 0.7.5:
15:22<SmatZ>PeterT: known, not our fault
15:22<PeterT>Whos fault?
15:22<SmatZ>gcc's fault
15:22<SmatZ>and not the only one :-p
15:22<PeterT>Is there something other than GCC on Linux Ubuntu?
15:23<SmatZ>and several other compilers :-p
15:23<@Rubidium>just read the code it warns on
15:24<SmatZ>llvm-c, tcc, tendra, watcom...
15:25<PeterT>SmatZ: What do you use?
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15:28<SmatZ>PeterT: mostly gcc 4.3, but sometimes I test compilation with gcc 4.5 and icc 11
15:29<PeterT>When do binaries get on the site after a stable release?
15:30<+glx>same delay as nightlies (once CF triggered)
15:30<PeterT>That will be tommorow, no?
15:31<@Rubidium>~5 minutes after the OSX compile has finished
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15:34<PeterT> <-- Hm, so there will be an 0.10?
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15:44<planetmaker>There'll be a 0.A
15:45<planetmaker>A € |N
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15:56<SpComb^>now I have a waypoint I can't remove until I patch in the crash-fix :(
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16:31<Zuu>planetmaker: 0.A will probably cause problem with the regex schemas in OpenTTDAU.
16:32<Zuu>Though, it would not be impossible to support such versions when it is time for that.
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16:42<Tulitomaatti>i tried searching around but failed to find it; how can i increase the tolerance for clients not responding (due a slow, wireless connection)? (I get the client getting dropped by the server because it did not respond for 4 game days)
16:43<Tulitomaatti>-> is there some openttd.cfg variable i missed or can this be set from the server console?
16:45<@Rubidium>4 game days = 10 seconds, which basically means the client is lagging at least 10 seconds
16:46<@Rubidium>and those 4 game days are hardcoded in the source
16:46<Tulitomaatti>ouch :<
16:47<Tulitomaatti>i guess i just have to wait for a christmas eve some year when i get 3G coverance to this area
16:47<@Rubidium>and if the game lags 4 game days it means that if you click to build something on a client it takes 10 seconds before it is actually build
16:47<@Rubidium>which I reckon means it's not playable anymore
16:48<Zuu>3G is still quite long latence times compared to wired internet.
16:48<Tulitomaatti>but way faster than gprs or edge. ircing is still tolerable but i guess the latency jumps when ottd starts syncing in and out
16:49<Zuu>well, speed is probably not the main problem as soon as the boot strap is over and you have joined a game.
16:52<Tulitomaatti>might be. the best i've got is that i have time to build 1 station or so before it drops the client
16:55<Zuu>As far as I know the speed improvement in 3G is basically that you have more symbols per time unit. Eg. you can transmitt more bits per symbol, but each symbol take the same time to transmitt. Of course in a long package that means that the end of the package will reach the reciever faster, but it doesn't affect the latence times really.
16:56<Zuu>Another improvement in 3G is that it can handle handovers without disconnecting the transmission/call etc. in the handover process. So if you play on the train etc. then you would benefit from that.
16:56<Zuu>(handover = connect to another base station)
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16:58<@Rubidium>oh, that reminds me: the 100 Mbps connection to the moon can't be used to play OpenTTD
16:59<@Rubidium> (oh, sorry... 100 MBps)
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16:59<Tulitomaatti>poor astronauts
16:59<SmatZ>there goes the hope of Earth-Mars multiplayer :(
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17:06<Tulitomaatti>they'll invent something.
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17:07<Tulitomaatti>light speed communication could be tolerable in an earth-mars civilization game :_D or other turn-based things.
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17:10<@Belugas>night all
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17:10<@Belugas>time to dream about some new toys...
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17:21<DaleStan>peter1138, Belugas, Rubidium: Did any of you authorize Geo.'s recent edits to the TTDPatch wiki, or have any of you seen anything about them on the forums? (Daylength-related NewGRF changes) I'm kinda curious which developer has promised him that. Or, possibly, if he put it there because he wants it and he thinks that will get "someone" to implement his wishes.
17:21<DaleStan>I'm rather tempted to revert them with a comment to the effect of "No TTDPatch or OpenTTD developer is working or has ever worked on this." but I *really* don't want to do that and then be proven wrong.
17:23<@peter1138>not me
17:24<@peter1138>seems a bloody stupid place to put it anyway
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17:25<@peter1138>ah, and var 26
17:25<@Rubidium>george wants support for $random daylength implementation and seems to be happy with a variable that has absolutely no defined meaning
17:25<@Rubidium>he wanted to reserve some number so 'all' patches could give their $random value there
17:26<@Rubidium>ofcourse that's going to cause a mess, but apparantly he doesn't quite care
17:27<@Rubidium>and lots of people pitched in and gave their comments on it not being future proof
17:29<@Rubidium>anyhow, there is no OpenTTD developer with the intention to add the variable to OpenTTD's NewGRF code
17:34<Terkhen>good night
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17:41<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18620 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: possible deadlock with SDL and changing the resolution in-game
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18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18621 /trunk/os/windows/installer/install.nsi: -Fix: [Windows] obm files didn't get deleted by the installer; update download size of OpenSFX.
18:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18622 /trunk/ (14 files in 10 dirs): -Merge: release changes
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18:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18623 /tags/1.0.0-beta1/ (6 files in 5 dirs): -Release: 1.0.0-beta1; Merry Christmas! Many thans to everyone who has made this possible.
18:16<planetmaker>Congratz to all who made it possible! And have a merry Christmas :-) and good night
18:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18624 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/download.html: [Website] -Change: mention OpenGFX/OpenSFX on the download page
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause>finally this damn discussion is over ;)
18:35<PeterT>0.1.0-beta 1!!!
18:40<SpComb^>you're joking :o
18:40<SpComb^>I hope it's got cargodist i nit!
18:41<+glx>it's a promoted nightly ;)
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18:43<PeterT>It's just a nightly that's called a release
18:43<SpComb^>well, I've wanted to ask George about the ECS-daylength things as well
18:43<SpComb^>never quite understood what the issue was
18:43<PeterT>I'm making Windows Binaries and Installers
18:43<PeterT>glx: Can I post them on Thread of Randomness?
18:44<+glx>PeterT: don't do it :)
18:44<PeterT>Got it :-)
18:44<SpComb^>so is this 1.0.0 a oh-yay-OpenFGFX-is-ready release?
18:45<@Rubidium>PeterT: please make a windows binary and installer of *each* trunk revision and post that in the thread of randomness
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18:46<PeterT>Rubidium: Hmm, you can make installers for a trunk revision?
18:46<+glx>we can, but we won't :)
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>am i right that beta1 will appear in download-testing when done?
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19:01<@peter1138>^ we didn't give it the right name ;(
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19:04<PeterT>The new installer is GREAT!
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>"Transport Tycoon (Deluxe) (name is still copyrighted)" <-- that's total nonsense
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>names cannot fall under copyright
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>they can only fall under trademark regulations
19:05-!-Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.5, 1.0.0-beta1 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only
19:07<@Rubidium>although I doubt that refering to a product by it's name is a trademark violation
19:08<SpComb^>presenting some other product under that name is
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>presenting another product in the same product class in the same country
19:14<SpComb^>mm, country I don't do about, wasn't there some international facet? :)
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>no, you have to register a trademark in each jurisdiction separately
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>which is why google had so many problems with gmail in germany
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19:21<sparr>"You can now run OpenTTD without the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files, although you can still use them if you like them more." <-- shibby
19:22<blathijs>Ah :-)
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>what language is that? :p
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19:35<@peter1138>it's not 1.0.0
19:36<PeterT>what is it, then?
19:36<@orudge>it's 1.0.0-beta1
19:37<@orudge>as it says
19:37<PeterT>Go to the damn page, please
19:37<@peter1138>OpenTTD 1.0.0
19:37<@peter1138>From OpenTTD
19:37<@peter1138>Jump to: navigation, search
19:37<@peter1138>OpenTTD 0.7.5 | OpenTTD 1.0.0 | Roadmap 1.0
19:37<@peter1138>This version was released on 2009-12-24.
19:37<@peter1138>OpenTTD's very first 1.0.0 release!
19:37<PeterT>Why did you move it?
19:38<PeterT>have you looked at:
19:38<PeterT>and all the previous releases?
19:38<PeterT>The Release Clients and betas are mentioned there
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19:54<welshdragon>ATTENTION! ATTENTION! The 2009 Unofficial TT-Forums Awards Results are in:
20:07*Dreamxtreme gives welshdragon a hard drive
20:15*welshdragon eats it
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21:15<sparr>Eddi|zuHause: english
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: not the english that i learned at school...
21:16<sparr>which is almost certainly 5-50 years out of date
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>also not the english that i ever read on the internet before...
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21:23<sparr>by now i'm sure you've searched for it on google and found more info than i am willing to retype here
21:23<sparr>where can I build banks?
21:23<sparr>I keep getting "... can only be built in towns" no matter where I try to build one
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>on top of a house
21:32-!-Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
22:09<sparr>thanks Eddi|zuHause
22:09<sparr>seems to require a house with a free space to the west
22:10<sparr>the placement cursor is a single tile, but the bank is two tiles
22:12<Eddi|zuHause>the curser is always on the top corner of the industry
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>but it cannot know the size of the industry beforehand
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>because the same industry can randomly chose between different sizes
22:15<sparr>ahh, good to know
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 24 00:00:05 2009