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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-02

---Logopened Sat Jan 02 00:00:23 2010
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02:02<sparrL2>when using presignals, i have one entry and two exits... how can i make sure that a train going through the entry heads for the green exit instead of the red one?
02:08<Yexo>is there a valid route through the green signal?
02:11<sparr>yes
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05:21<planetmaker>Nice, nice. Only 20 tiles big bus and lorry terminal can serve without problem 340 road vehicles
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06:10<andythenorth>morning
06:10<Ammler>nooning
06:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18685 /trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt: -Update: add genders to Catalan
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06:27<Terkhen>hello
06:32<roboboy>hello
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07:16<andythenorth>the game is happy to place FIRS fishing harbours on very small bits of sea
07:16<andythenorth>I'm not so happy with that :P
07:16<andythenorth>I can use the 'magic' tiles to check how big the sea is, but then it's harder to place the harbours
07:16<andythenorth>ho hum
07:26<Alberth>sounds like a program problem rather than a newgrf problem to me
07:28-!-luk3Z [~chatzilla@adky30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
07:28<luk3Z>hello all
07:29<luk3Z>anybody here?
07:30<@Rubidium>nope
07:31<luk3Z>this is sad ;)
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07:40<luk3Z>Remko what is the chance to implement addiional graphic for grass tiiles something like that: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=60282
07:40<luk3Z>I mean in original OTTD ;)
07:41<Yexo>what additional grass tiles? if you just want replacement graphics for the normal grass the chance is 0 as it can easily be done by a newgrf
07:43<luk3Z>like this http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=60282 it was in abandoned New South Wales Rail Set it could look grat in tropical ;)
07:44<Yexo>that looks like just replacement graphics, so see above
07:44<roboboy>It was a newGRF
07:44<luk3Z>is ths grf done already by somebody ?
07:45<roboboy>I dont think it was ever released beyond the small group of testers which I was a member of untill I took a break from the game
07:46<luk3Z>when I read some posts in the main thread someone put oinfo about this grf but there is no grf to download :(
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07:47<luk3Z>I check who post name of this grf and I'll tell you , so you can tell me if this person is active or not ;)
07:47<dragonhorseboy>hey
07:47<luk3Z>hi
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07:48<roboboy>I think WhiteHand\Lachie is semi active
07:49<luk3Z>I read forum now Lachie told about something tests
07:49<luk3Z>but this is old post Apr 23, 2009
07:50<@Rubidium>the forum is full of 'look I'm making this' posts, and lot of them haven't finished what they're working on
07:51<dragonhorseboy>rubidium heh yeah like there should be a soft rule somewhere that you need to have some sprites completed first before ever posting about it :)
07:51<luk3Z>most probably for lack of time...
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07:53<roboboy>I think he lost the .lst file
07:53<roboboy>.lst is the grfmaker file
07:53<roboboy>format
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07:54<luk3Z>I saw post about lost date somewhere
07:55<luk3Z>anyway there should be some testers who may have grf which I need :)
07:56<@Rubidium>if only they made their thing GPLv2 and distributed the sources; then there would be backups all over the place
07:56<luk3Z> Sat Jan 26, 2008 Lachie: I've lost my working files, so no, no testers are needed.
07:57<[com]buster>got a crash for you guys
07:57<roboboy>I lost mine and im not alowed to distribute it anyway
07:57<luk3Z>what is the chance to create new grass tiles by OTTD developers ?
07:58<@Rubidium>given that none of them is any good with drawing: the chance is between 0 and 1
07:58<luk3Z>this tile looks like this in farm but is eye candy ;)
08:01<dragonhorseboy>hehe
08:01*dragonhorseboy had actually been sketching some quick sprites for my own landscape
08:02<luk3Z>I suggest add farm yello tile to tropical climate ;)
08:03<Yexo>luk3Z: why do you want it done by openttd developers?
08:04<Yexo>There are a lot of people at the forum that are better with graphics then most of the current developers
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08:05<luk3Z>It is suggestion to add more grass tiles for OTTD ;)
08:05<roboboy>does he think if the developers do it, it will get in sooner?
08:05<Yexo>luk3Z: all I've seen so far is replacement graphics, not additional graphics
08:06<luk3Z>ok guys it is suggestion only to make game better and not looking like in 1995 ;)
08:06<dragonhorseboy>why 1995?
08:06<dragonhorseboy>you saying there was some kind of new grass in 1995 specifcally? :P
08:06<luk3Z>ttd was released in 1995
08:06<dragonhorseboy>and ?
08:07<dragonhorseboy>are all grfs coded from 1995 as well? (especially opengfx)
08:07<Yexo>that's fine, but I still don't get what exactly you are suggesting. Are you suggesting a) to replace the tropical grass with other graphics similar to the one in the screenshot you posted or b) add a new grass type in tropic next to the existing grass?
08:07<Terkhen>I like how the game looks, if it changes, what's the point of a remake?
08:07<luk3Z>the is 1 type of tile grass in temperate and 2 in tropical after couple of years ;P
08:07<Yexo>if b), please explain why we should add a new grass type and not replace normal grass
08:07<@Rubidium>luk3Z: we are NOT going to change the original graphics *ever*. Primarily because we do not have the rights to do so! If you want different looking base graphics go to OpenGFX and see what you can get done there, if that fails... start a new base graphics set with whatever graphics you like
08:08<dragonhorseboy>terkhen I got to side with you there .. thats why there's certain aspects of original graphics that I've left alone in my grf remake
08:09<luk3Z>I thought OTTD add all those patch form forum to original OTTD and some new ideas/graphics
08:10<@Rubidium>OpenTTD is *only* the engine, it isn't the graphics nor the sounds
08:10-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-248-165.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
08:10<luk3Z>Yexo: b
08:10<SpComb>luk3Z: the '95 look is awesome!
08:10<SpComb>32bpp just looks stupid :(
08:11<luk3Z>SpComb: agree but some new tiles could be great ;)
08:11<Yexo>luk3Z: <Yexo> if b), please explain why we should add a new grass type and not replace normal grass
08:11<Zuu>luk3Z: Please go ahead and make the tiles :-)
08:12<luk3Z>Zuu: tiles are half-done in farm from TTD
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08:13<luk3Z>Yexo: in mountain grass is not green as in valley :D
08:13<Alberth>that's a bug in reality
08:13<dragonhorseboy>luk thats a reason why you should be loading snowline.grf in temperate maps anyway
08:13<luk3Z>Alberth: matrix bug ?
08:14<dragonhorseboy>take a look at any arctic maps and well there :)
08:14<Alberth>luk3Z: whoever or whatever created the world
08:15<Zuu>Alberth: How expansive is the mod operator? Is it worth a longer less readable function to reduce the usage of it?
08:16<@Rubidium>Zuu: it's division
08:16<luk3Z>dragonhorseboy: I really like green but in this game is too much green everywhere ;)
08:16<dragonhorseboy>luk then stop creating flat 2048x2048 maps with no trees? lol as if :)
08:17*roboboy likes most of (O)TTD(P) they way it is graphically
08:17<@Rubidium>luk3Z: start OpenTTD with -b 8bpp-debug as parameters
08:17<Zuu>Or build some infrastructure on it.
08:18<luk3Z>Rubidium: I don't use 32bpp
08:18<roboboy>he didnt mention 32Bpp
08:18<@Rubidium>luk3Z: what has 32bpp to do with that?
08:19<luk3Z>dragonhorseboy: I don't like flat terrain it is tooo easy
08:19<dragonhorseboy>luk and your point on green is?
08:19<luk3Z>roboboy: he wrote like suggest I using 32 :P
08:20<roboboy>no he wrote to use *bpp debug mode
08:20<dragonhorseboy>luk nope I don't even see one single line from him for that
08:20<luk3Z>Rubidium: ok wait
08:22*roboboy wonders what -b 8bpp-debug does
08:22<luk3Z>Rubidium: colorfull tiles great!
08:22<Yexo>it starts openttd with the 8bpp debug blitter of course :p
08:22<roboboy>wow
08:23<roboboy>the text is hard to read
08:23<luk3Z>I had blitter = "32bpp-optimized" anyway
08:24<luk3Z>n 8bpp I only see some colour shapes :D
08:24<luk3Z>anyway it is progress to add more grass tiles ;)
08:25<Forked>you wink alot
08:27<dragonhorseboy>one of the thing I always did wondered about was why temperate forests weren't the same behaviour as the one in tropical :S
08:28<dragonhorseboy>at least I'm looking to fix that quick&easy in my grf (there's one variable flag for this .. aside to some sprites changes too)
08:28<@Rubidium>because tropical tree growth is like a thousand times faster than temperate trees
08:28<dragonhorseboy>rubidium and why should temperate have "unlimited" trees just standing there like nothing? ;)
08:29<dragonhorseboy>if someone tries to haul 200+ wood out daily without replanting it themself..well..they're going to look at a drop in output and eventually finally have no wood to load at all :)
08:29<@Rubidium>because in temperate regions of the world they usually replant trees, but in borneo and the like they don't
08:30<dragonhorseboy>Clearcut Forestry .. that kind of name would sound amusing
08:31<Alberth>Zuu: for incrementing the mod result by 1 mostly, yes
08:31<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: together with my LumberMill grf, there is a patch which adds randomly tree cutting.
08:32<Alberth>Zuu: you can easily do it in 1 line, so I don't see 'longer code' atm
08:32<Zuu>Alberth: Regarding 5 & 6 in my comment, I've resolved those quite nice now. I'm working on getting FocusNextEditWidget as tidy as possible.
08:32<dragonhorseboy>this one ammler? http://svn.openttdcoop.org/grfdev/lumbermill/
08:32<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: that is the grf
08:33<Ammler>the patch is linked on the tt-forums thread
08:33<dragonhorseboy>ammler hmm I actually like that idea .. looking more like selective cutting than outrighteous clearcutting
08:33*dragonhorseboy searches
08:33<Zuu>Alberth: Regarding the ifs in the beginning, would you prefer setting the two vars for one case, and then use a if to detect the other case and cahnge the vars - or - just create the variables and possible assign zero to them, and then use a if - else to assign the different values?
08:34<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=39564
08:34<andythenorth>meh, the tropic lumber mill behaviour drives me nuts
08:34<Alberth>Zuu: : busy reading your comment, a moment plz
08:34<andythenorth>plant trees? It's a transport game, no?
08:34*andythenorth runs away
08:34<Zuu>Alberth: Sure :-)
08:35<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: patch: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=745610
08:35*dragonhorseboy grabs andythenorth back and points out that its more than only transporting
08:35<andythenorth>yes yes.
08:35<Alberth>andythenorth: why didn't somebody implement a sustainable, environmently friendly saw mill ? :p
08:35<dragonhorseboy>eg why do you have passenger carriages on your train? thats because of laying roads for a town to grow etc and the station placed in there too and so on
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08:36<andythenorth>planting trees to feed an industry is weirdly micro-managing in a game that doesn't feature much micro managing
08:37<andythenorth>can we have a patch to plant rocks in game please
08:37<andythenorth>then I can have FIRS quarries where you have to 'plant' rocks every few months
08:37<andythenorth>:P
08:37<dragonhorseboy>andythenorth if you wanted 700+ woods then don't complain .. you need to plant the trees for your greedy finances :)
08:37<andythenorth>I should have some tea I think :)
08:38<dragonhorseboy>elsewise just don't bother.. as if
08:38<Ammler>andythenorth: you don't need to plant trees
08:38<Alberth>Zuu: ifs in the beginning, both ways are good
08:38<Ammler>they regrow self
08:38<Zuu>Alberth: Ok
08:38<Zuu>ay
08:38<Ammler>except you have a LumberMill adjacent to each other
08:40<Alberth>Zuu: ad 3: line 792 window_gui.h asserts that you get what you asked for.
08:40<Zuu>Oh, yea, your right.
08:40<Zuu>Changing the type to NWidgetBase should be okay?
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08:41<Zuu>Since the specific implementation for that type never asserts.
08:41<Zuu>And it seams to include the ->type member, which is all I need.
08:41<Alberth>yes, that should work, as 'type' is a NWidgetBase property
08:41<Alberth>s/seams/seems/ plz
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08:42<dragonhorseboy>well I'm off for a while and btw ammler thanks a lot for that lumbermill thing of yours .. I'll really have to see about making space for it in my project ^_^
08:42<dragonhorseboy>(umm I meant as in letting it work together .. not that it'll be bundled in)
08:42<Ammler>well, the more important part is done by PhilSophus
08:42<Alberth>Zuu: it never asserts since all widgets are of that base class :)
08:42<Ammler>I just made the minigrf
08:43<andythenorth>Ammler: I'm just teasing on the lumber mill btw :P
08:43<dragonhorseboy>ok..well bye till later ;)
08:43*dragonhorseboy throws a big saw at andythenorth and runs off
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08:43<andythenorth> but why not then farms that depend on the number of fields?
08:43-!-scrooch [~scrooch@76.73.16.26] has joined #openttd
08:43<Alberth>then I want to be able to move fields
08:44<scrooch>hello! :)
08:44<Alberth>hello scrooch
08:44<scrooch>sry i seemed to interrupted you
08:44<Alberth>andythenorth: and/or create new ones :)
08:44<Alberth>scrooch: that's normal in IRC :)
08:44<andythenorth>Alberth: nice point
08:45<scrooch>:) Well I was wondering. Imagine a coal+plant on one side of the map and a coal+plant on the other side of the map.
08:46<scrooch>It gives more money to transport the coal to the plant on the other side of the map
08:46<Alberth>yes
08:46<andythenorth>I think the answers going to be 'cargodist'
08:46<andythenorth>answer's \s
08:46<scrooch>but where is the limit on that? distant / earnings speaking
08:46<Alberth>scrooch: you have a problem with making more money ?
08:46<@peter1138>'cos you transported it further
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08:47<Alberth>scrooch: transport costs time, and you get paid less the longer it takes to deliver the goods
08:47<scrooch>No, I am wondering how it is possible that making more costs in transporting it further can be more beneficial to transporting "next doors" ... There seems to be no punishment for transport ineffectiveness, only reward
08:47<Alberth>scrooch: with fast enough vehicles, it pays to deliver the cargo as far as possible from the place where you got it
08:48<andythenorth>scrooch: this is the 'economy' problem in TTD
08:48<andythenorth>there are loads of forum threads about it
08:48<andythenorth>and no solution (yet)
08:48<scrooch>aahh ok, thats the term i didnt google for, economy problem :)
08:48<scrooch>will check it in the forums then, thanks
08:49<Alberth>scrooch: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=29683
08:49<andythenorth>try 'realistic economy' or realistic payment model threads in OTTD suggestions and OTTD development
08:51<andythenorth>scrooch: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=43145&hilit=realistic+payment
08:51*planetmaker likes the unrealistic games.
08:51<Alberth>scrooch: mostly, people start dragging in more and more changes, until nobody understands it any more.
08:52<planetmaker>Makes it easy to have fun building.
08:52*Alberth agrees with planetmaker
08:52<andythenorth>I have given up caring about that particular economy problem
08:52<scrooch>thanks for the links guys :) Interesting reads, unfortunately there dont seem to be easy solutions
08:53<Alberth>scrooch: if it was easy, the problem would have been solved already. We saved this one for you :)
08:53<planetmaker>not easy != impossible. But you might need good arguments and - probably worth more - the desire to write patches yourself :-)
08:53<andythenorth>I do have a little project to improve specific parts of the economy :D
08:53<andythenorth>it's newgrf, and rhymes with blurs
08:54<planetmaker>fur? ;-)
08:54<andythenorth>yes fur, we'll add a trapping industry to Arctic
08:54<andythenorth>the entire economy will have one cargo
08:54<andythenorth>that will solve all the economy problems
08:54<planetmaker>new cargo scheme ;-)
08:54<planetmaker>they trade furs with eachother
08:55<planetmaker>ice bear fur, whale fur, fish fur, salmon fur, penguin fur, seal fur... :-P
08:55<Alberth>nah, fur has a bad reputation. use fish or so instead
08:56<planetmaker>and then greenpeace comes and game over
08:56<planetmaker>hehe, yes :-)
08:56<scrooch>nice nice :)
08:56<Alberth>hmm, a 'run from greenpeace' game :)
08:56<planetmaker>produce sufficient fur as to muffle the outcries of greenpeace activists? ;-)
08:57<@peter1138>would making landscaping affect, and be restricted by, town authority rating help with 'persistent landscapers'?
08:57<@peter1138>*effect
08:58<Alberth>in the tropical climate that becomes 'hide nuclear industry from the inspectors'
08:58<planetmaker>lol
08:58<planetmaker>peter1138: it would certainly add another interesting difficulty option. But I don't think it's a solution to too much terraforming
08:59<planetmaker>especially as there are lot of tiles which have not authority attached to them
09:00<planetmaker>The better solution to that end would be a maximum terraform size per click&drag or so. Or a fixed amount per month and company or player
09:00<Alberth>I was thinking to allow landscaping only for non-bare ground tiles, ie allow only 1 tile leveling, then wait until it is grown again.
09:00<planetmaker>Alberth: that'd be a pain even more ;-)
09:00<planetmaker>Try to build a tunnel then in a plain
09:00<andythenorth>is terraforming a huge issue on mp games? I only play single player
09:01<planetmaker>andythenorth: depends. Can be, if you don't like much TF
09:01<planetmaker>in principle a player could gain quickly a bit money and then level the entire map.
09:02<planetmaker>But I have seen it twice(?) in two years or so.
09:02<andythenorth>I liked the idea of having some dirt 'in hand'
09:02<andythenorth>so you have x tonnes of dirt
09:02<Ammler>well, mostly be joining a abandon rich company
09:02<@peter1138>OpenConstructionTycoon
09:02<andythenorth>lowering land gives you more dirt in hand, raising land costs dirt...
09:03<andythenorth>dirt in hand can't go negative
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09:03<Alberth>so I level a mountain first
09:03<andythenorth>then you fill in the sea :)
09:03<@peter1138>wouldn't work cos you can do that
09:04<@peter1138>my solution so far is to play alone ;p
09:04<andythenorth>just make it fricking expensive with a newgrf...?
09:04<Zuu>Or not at all... :-p
09:04<andythenorth>like Pikka's
09:04<Alberth>andythenorth: that just delays the problem until later in the game
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09:05<andythenorth>so it's an imponderable?
09:05<Ammler>I liked the proposal, when you lower somewhere, you need to rise somewhere else :-)
09:05<Alberth>maybe if 'dirt in the hand' must stay below some value. It increases with each change, and slowly decreases to 0 over time
09:06<andythenorth>Alberth: surely root cause of the problem is...the game gives you too much money?
09:06<zar>doesn't the town authority care?
09:06<Alberth>andythenorth: that's easily solved: payment = 0 :p
09:06<Neon>Can I change the maximum size of stations on a dedicated server during the game?
09:06<andythenorth>Alberth: again, newgrf :)
09:07<Ammler>Neon: rcon set station_spread
09:07<Alberth>andythenorth: yeah, those newgrf take over the entire game, we should stop that :p
09:07<andythenorth>newgrf = 0?
09:07<Alberth>rolf
09:07<Alberth>s/rofl/
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09:07<andythenorth>I like the dirt-in-hand idea, with a cap as suggested by Alberth
09:08<andythenorth>this would just make terraforming very tedious
09:08<andythenorth>lower 10 tiles, hit the cap, raise 10 tiles, lower 10, raise 10 etc
09:08<roboboy>I user definable cap?
09:08<Alberth>except when done occasionally which is what you want
09:08<zar>and it would lead to _more_ terraforming by the players that actually play the game
09:08<roboboy>*A
09:08<zar>instead of trying to ruin it for others
09:09<Ammler>andythenorth: when do you need to tf more than 10 tiles at once?
09:09<Ammler>only for sabotage
09:09<zar>or making a long railway in bumpy terrain
09:09<Coco-Banana-Man>[15:04:35] <andythenorth> just make it fricking expensive with a newgrf...? <--- I usually play with base costs mod because I don't really like much terraforming in single player :)
09:10<Ammler>or removing drag&drop tf
09:10<Alberth>andythenorth: I'd make lowering also increase dirt in hand
09:10<@peter1138>zar, no, TA doesn't care about landscaping
09:10<Ammler>or how is that called
09:10<zar>peter1138: wouldn't that be a pretty natural limiter for it?
09:11<@peter1138>it might, at least around towns
09:11<andythenorth>it wouldn't at sea for example
09:12<andythenorth>Ammler: in case it wasn't clear, terraforming being tedious is a *good* thing :)
09:12<Ammler>if tf one tile needs one click, it is solved, imo :-)
09:12<zar>sometimes you need to terraform larger areas for legimate reasons
09:13<zar>making it harder is a bad idea IMO
09:13<Coco-Banana-Man>[15:03:16] <andythenorth> lowering land gives you more dirt in hand, raising land costs dirt... <--- would you need a half 'dirt' to build slopes then? :)
09:13<Ammler>zar: as a rcon option
09:13<zar>you could kick the terraformers with rcon too ;)
09:14<andythenorth>Coco-Banana-Man: a unit of dirt is 1/4 of a tile?
09:14<zar>solves the problem
09:14<Ammler>zar: then it is mostly already too late
09:15<Alberth>zar: whether TF of a larger area is legitimate depends on your playing style
09:15<Alberth>Ammler: 1 click for each tile tf may work too, indeed
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09:16<andythenorth>On a small map, I like the idea that you have to find somewhere to put / get more dirt
09:16<andythenorth>On a large map, non issue
09:16<zar>i just despise the idea of making play harder for everyone just to weed out a few idiots.
09:16<Ammler>Alberth: or per tick/day
09:16<Coco-Banana-Man>andythenorth: But wouldn't that mean you'd need 4 units of dirt to build a little hill (raising land once) on an entirely flat map then?
09:16<zar>it's not right if everybody suffers from the idiocy of few.
09:17<andythenorth>Coco-Banana-Man: yes
09:17<Alberth>Ammler: nice idea
09:17<Ammler>as the tile/click might be patchable by a clinet
09:18<Ammler>hehe, then appears a redbox: "you already reached your terraforming quota, try in 4 days again" ;-)
09:19<roboboy>lol
09:19<Coco-Banana-Man>andythenorth: I like that idea with dirt :)
09:19<roboboy>actualy lunb
09:19<roboboy>blah
09:19<roboboy>lub
09:19<Coco-Banana-Man>But I would make it a bit different
09:19<Alberth>Ammler: we could make it progressively longer :)
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09:20<Coco-Banana-Man>Say, you're playing with base costs mod and terraforming costs around 60k$
09:20<Ammler>hmm, actually, that is serious, I shouldn't use smilies
09:20<Alberth>ie the solution to cracking a passwd by trying all words from the dictionary
09:20<Ammler>Coco-Banana-Man: costs is no option imo
09:21<Coco-Banana-Man>If you've got enough dirt to raise the mountain, I'd drop a half of the costs (so it costs ~30k$) only
09:21<Ammler>it is too expensive at start and too cheap in a further game
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09:22<Coco-Banana-Man>If you haven't got enough dirt, you've got to pay the full price...
09:22<Ammler>is there another method to sabotage a MP game than bad terraforming?
09:22<Coco-Banana-Man>I don't think it's too expensive in the start
09:23<roboboy>yeah for ships raise land and build railway tracks on the raised land
09:23<roboboy>and rvs blow em up with trains
09:23<Coco-Banana-Man>But you have to think more about your lining
09:24<Ammler>oh well, that needs a lot effort, so that should be possible, shouldn't?
09:24<welshdragon>the only thing you can't do is kill trains and aircraft
09:24<roboboy>im not sure if the old train sabotage method is still useable
09:24<Coco-Banana-Man>But I agree that it becomes too cheap later...
09:24<Ammler>you mean connecting on a station head of foreing company?
09:25<Ammler>that isn't possible since I know
09:25<roboboy>yeah
09:25<Ammler>< 0.4.8
09:25<welshdragon>it'd be good if terraforming was more expensive as time progressed
09:25<Coco-Banana-Man>Just build buffers on the end of your stations, then it certainly won't be possible :P
09:26<andythenorth>welshdragon: newgrf :)
09:26<welshdragon>so in 1950 it costs £200 to raise/lower the land
09:26<Ammler>andythenorth: you can't change Action0 values per time
09:26<welshdragon>and in 2050 it costs £2 million ;)
09:26<Coco-Banana-Man>200 pounds? How cheap would it be in 1850 then? :P
09:27<welshdragon>hmm
09:27<welshdragon>same
09:27<welshdragon>:P
09:28<roboboy>ou can also block stations entirely is they dont have buffers or a building at the end
09:28<Ammler>roboboy: as said, since around 0.4.8, not possible in openttd
09:28<roboboy>hm
09:29<roboboy>not blowing up though?
09:29<Ammler>dunno, if it was ever possible
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09:33<Coco-Banana-Man>Is SpComb around?
09:34<Neon>Ammler: Thanks btw ^^ Is there a list of all changable settings during the game?
09:35<Coco-Banana-Man>or anyone else who can tell me what the "Moving average Unit" and "Moving Average Length" are for?
09:35<Coco-Banana-Man>+switches
09:36<Ammler>Neon: wiki, just try, it will tell you, if not working...
09:36<Ammler>or openttd.cfg
09:37<Neon>Ammler: But not all settings are changable if the game is already running are they? Oo
09:37<SpComb>Coco-Banana-Man: those are from cargodist
09:37<Ammler>Neon: yes, but they will tell you
09:37<Neon>ok
09:38<SpComb>Coco-Banana-Man: dunno exactly, but they're related to how quickly the linkgraph figures react to changes
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09:40<Ammler>Neon: it needs around 20 secs to change such a "forbidden" setting
09:40<Coco-Banana-Man>hm, ok, thank you
09:40<Ammler>just save it locally, change it and load it on the server again
09:41<Ammler>on coop, we use a patch do that automatically, i.e. for magic_bulldozer
09:41<Ammler>to*
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09:44<Neon>Ammler: Sounds really nice :D
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09:45<dragonhorseboy>back
09:46<Ammler>let me check, if the patch is public...
09:47<Ammler>SmatZ: ^
09:48<planetmaker>I don't think
09:51<planetmaker>btw... what reason is there that articulated RV don't overtake? I'm sure there is a good one, I just don't find it.
09:53<frosch123>current overtaking code checks next two tiles for straight track, no junction, no other vehicles and such, and then assumes there is enough room. all those stuff cannot deal with longer vehicles
09:53<frosch123>s/room/space/ maybe
09:55<frosch123>of course the current code does not work very well for fast vehicles either :p
09:58<Coco-Banana-Man>great, my NARS diesel locomotives can load limestone now :D
09:58<dragonhorseboy>frosch...heh how fast? :)
09:58<Coco-Banana-Man>(but that's still better than having no limestone at all...)
09:58<dragonhorseboy>coco...limestone powered diesel? LOL :p
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09:58<dragonhorseboy>sorry just had to play with your wordings
09:58<Coco-Banana-Man>[15:57:43] <dragonhorseboy> coco...limestone powered diesel? LOL :p <--- nah, driver needs more money and sells it on his own :D
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09:58<dragonhorseboy>limestone ... ECS construction right?
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09:58<Coco-Banana-Man>yeah
09:58<dragonhorseboy>ok
09:59<dragonhorseboy>for a sec I thought you were talking about a diesel locomotive running on limestone till I realized what "can load" really meant ;)
09:59<Coco-Banana-Man>as I said - having limestone is better than having a unusable regearing cargo...
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10:03<Coco-Banana-Man>But I'm just wondering that I haven't had that idea earlier...
10:03<dragonhorseboy>what idea?
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10:03<Coco-Banana-Man>to load NARS before ECS so I can have limestone instead that (regearing) cargo
10:03<Neon>Can I call the infaltion off?
10:03<Neon>inflation*
10:03-!-lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
10:03<dragonhorseboy>neon its right in the Advanced Settings or .. exactly what are you asking?
10:03-!-Ciprian [~ciprianc9@92.84.36.12] has joined #openttd
10:04<Neon>The game is already running and the setting aused the money to lose worth, but now I wonder if I can increase the money's worth again and call the inflation off. I already set inflation to false so it won't go on anymore.
10:04<Ciprian>HI
10:04<Neon>caused*
10:05<Coco-Banana-Man>yes, you should be able to turn it off in-game
10:05<Coco-Banana-Man>ah, ok, you did already ^^
10:06<Neon>I wnat to have a deflation now you know?
10:06<Neon>want*
10:06<dragonhorseboy>:)
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10:07<dragonhorseboy>hmm had to look up limestone on wiki for myself...interesting for rail transport
10:08<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=844888#p844888 <-- Alberth, if you have you hilly-route trains in one group, I think it is possible to treat them separately already now :-)
10:08<planetmaker>So... I think groups and the concept of advanced replacement need not be mixed
10:11<Alberth>in the sense that they already are :)
10:11<Alberth>thanks for the correction
10:11<planetmaker>well. But you do replacements in a selected group.
10:11<planetmaker>:-)
10:12<planetmaker>despite that there was once a nice thread on advanced groups in the forums with a good concept by Brianetta IIRC. But... LOTS of work
10:12<Alberth>with 2 windows, it may get a bit complicated to understand what you are doing though
10:12<andythenorth>signed bytes...is FF -1 or 0?
10:13<Alberth>-1
10:13<Alberth>~n + 1 :)
10:14<Alberth>planetmaker: I never read about advanced groups yet, perhaps in the future :)
10:14<@peter1138>n - 256 :)
10:14<Alberth>I was thinking that :)
10:15<andythenorth>shame grfcodec can't deal with negative escapes
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10:17*Alberth mumbles something about an open source project accepting patches
10:17<Neon>Well, is it possible to reset all prices to default?
10:17<planetmaker>hahaha @ Alberth
10:17<planetmaker>I found that posting pretty amusing...
10:17-!-PeterT [~PeterT@65.96.203.35] has joined #openttd
10:17<Alberth>Neon: no afaik
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10:17<dragonhorseboy>heh
10:18<planetmaker>reset_economy maybe?
10:21<planetmaker>or was that a non-trunk patch?
10:22<Alberth>there is reset_company, but that does something else most likely :)
10:23<Ammler>just hit apply in newgrf window
10:25<scrooch>hey guys this beginner has another 2 questions about this picture: http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8678/32986962.png
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10:25<dragonhorseboy>scrooch what kind of picture is it? its taking a LONG time to even load a quarter at all
10:26<Ammler>scrooch: use ctrl-(or alt-)printscreen
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10:26<Ammler>hmm
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10:26<dragonhorseboy>hey fjb
10:26<scrooch>hey guys, two other beginners questions here in this picture :) http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8678/32986962.png
10:27<scrooch>i dont understand the explanations on how the signals work
10:27<dragonhorseboy>scrooch quit spamming if you can't stay for an answer? :p
10:27<dragonhorseboy>ah heh
10:27<scrooch>sry the connection was lost :-/ what did i miss?
10:27<AFDerrick>I have a question. Has anyone played Ex's City Mania? How do you setup a storehouse to hold water/food/goods/etc?
10:27<dragonhorseboy>scrooch next time take a proper screenshot (its in ottd's toolbar) .. that kind of big screenshot isn't forum-friendly anyway ...
10:28<dragonhorseboy>and scrooch you're doing it wrong ..
10:28<scrooch>right, thanks for pointing out the s-c button in ttd :)
10:28<dragonhorseboy>scrooch .. you're doing it completely wrong there anyway ;)
10:29<scrooch>i'd like to have a red sign before the crossing in front of the stations for entering trains when both slots are full, but not when one is still available
10:29-!-Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:29<dragonhorseboy>1. the white boarded signal is supposed to be a normal one-way signal ... and replace the two normal 2-way signals in front of platforms with that very white-boarded signal ...
10:29<dragonhorseboy>and lastly remove that piece of track connecting the two lines together in front of depot .. unless you want mess up with the signals
10:30<dragonhorseboy>because if one train is waiting at the entry signal .. no trains inside the station can even leave in that sense
10:30<Ammler>uwe's signal guide might be worth to read for you
10:30<scrooch>aii yeah, forget the several signals you see - they were just the final experiment... I only understand the 'block signals' so far :(
10:30<dragonhorseboy>ammler.. uwe?
10:31<Ammler>dragonhorseboy: the best guide about signals from TTD
10:31<Ammler>for*
10:32<dragonhorseboy>hmm there's too many uwe's online .. got a link?
10:33<Ammler>http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/signal/index.php?lang=en
10:33<scrooch>ok i'll check that now, thank you Ammler and dragonhorseboy
10:33<scrooch>and my 2nd question, unrelated to signals
10:33<Alberth>38
10:33<scrooch>that station is to far away from goods
10:33<scrooch>i made a truck-station against it
10:34<scrooch>to pick up any delivered goods in the station (i set up a train to deliver goods)..... Does that work
10:34<scrooch>because i'd like to city to have goods
10:34<Coco-Banana-Man>hmm
10:35<scrooch>actually the 0% you see, is a truck waiting to pick up goods
10:35<Coco-Banana-Man>will cargoes change trains on a station that doesn't accept them (in CargoDist)?
10:35<Coco-Banana-Man>-e
10:36<scrooch>yeah, thats it Coco-Banana-Man :)
10:36<Zuu>Yep, that is part of the idea with CargoDist/Dest.
10:36<Coco-Banana-Man>ok :)
10:36<scrooch>is it possible to loop the same goods around and around with endless profits then?
10:37*Coco-Banana-Man tries building a passenger station in the middle of nowhere for them to change trains then :D
10:37<Alberth>no, you get paid only when delivering the cargo to the final destination
10:37<scrooch>alright :)
10:37<Alberth>Coco-Banana-Man: a feeder system
10:38<dragonhorseboy>don't I recall that newer versions of patch/ottd now finally lets your trains shows "profits" even although they're only transfering off loads than actually unloading it?
10:38<De_Ghosty>i think it's possible profit
10:38<Alberth>those are virtual profits
10:38<dragonhorseboy>alberth yeah that
10:39<Coco-Banana-Man>will I need transfer flag on that station then or will they do automatically?
10:39<dragonhorseboy>alberth its one thing I actually loved finally.. not having a train thats always showing up bleeding red nonstop in the train list even although its supposed to transfer off profitable cargos
10:39<Alberth>Coco-Banana-Man: 1 direction: no loading and transfer instead of unload
10:39<Ciprian>HEI
10:39<Ciprian>I have an question
10:40<dragonhorseboy>btw I do kinda wish ottd Orders menus were fixed
10:40<Ciprian>Where I can find the music pack for OPENTTD
10:40<@Rubidium>hi, I have an answer: 42
10:40<dragonhorseboy>its always a bit confusing trying to figure out why I keep getting 'transfer and take cargo' when the actual option I WANTED is not as so obvious
10:40<Ciprian>Where I can find the music pack for OPENTTD?
10:40<Ciprian>Where I can find the music pack for OPENTTD?
10:40<planetmaker>yes, we can read
10:40*dragonhorseboy whacks ciprian to stop spamming pls
10:40<Coco-Banana-Man>which music pack?
10:40<@Rubidium>Ciprian: there is no free music pack yet, you'll have to copy that from the transport tycoon CD
10:40<planetmaker>^ that's the answer
10:41<@Rubidium>or more precisely, the Windows version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe
10:41<dragonhorseboy>rubidium .. or opensfx if you have the version supported
10:41<@Rubidium>dragonhorseboy: keep dreaming...
10:41<Coco-Banana-Man>OpenSFX are sounds only, no music
10:41<Alberth>dragonhorseboy: sound effects != music
10:42<@Rubidium>I think my new years resolution is backfiring ginormously
10:42<dragonhorseboy>heh rubidium poor you
10:42<Coco-Banana-Man>[16:39:55] <Alberth> Coco-Banana-Man: 1 direction: no loading and transfer instead of unload <--- And on passenger trains where they may just change onto another line or stay on that train?
10:43<AFDerrick>Does anyone know how to setup the storehouse for tropical maps like in Ex's City Mania Server?
10:43<dragonhorseboy>storehouse? is this some industry grf?
10:44<AFDerrick>I can't find it in the grf's anywhere.
10:44<Alberth>Coco-Banana-Man: for each train you can set load and unload seperately. It is however for all cargo on the train. Cargo d*st is more advanced in that respect
10:44<AFDerrick>its for if you deliver food/water/etc to a city it will store the extra supplies it doesn't use that month.
10:44<Coco-Banana-Man>I'm talking about how CargoDist will handle that ;)
10:44<@Rubidium>AFDerrick: that sounds like some custom modifications to OpenTTD
10:45<AFDerrick>Rubidium: Aw snap, I was fearful it might be but thinking maybe there was a setting I hadn't seen somewhere. It's a very nice feature.
10:45<Alberth>Coco-Banana-Man: ok :) Afaik it is all done by the program, you don't need to set anything (but I hardly play that version, so not entirely sure)
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10:48<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18686 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix [FS#3470]: in some cases _sl.chs is used when not initialised. As _sl.chs always refers to a single table when initialised replace _sl.chs with the actual table
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10:51<scrooch>alright guys so from the openttd wiki: http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:Yapp_basicstation.png
10:51<scrooch>this is exactly what i was after
10:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18687 /trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
10:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI]: AIEngine::IsBuildable to check if you can build a certain engine.
10:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: AIEngine::IsValidEngine will now also return true when you have at least one vehicle of that type even if you can't build it anymore.
10:52<Alberth>Zuu: please test a patch before submitting. Assigning a constant is not going to work.
10:53<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18688 /trunk/src/saveload/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Cleanup: remove some unused code/constants
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10:54<Eddi|zuHause>gnarf... svn client too old for the working copy...
10:54<Alberth>yes, using different svn versions on one working copy is dangerous :)
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i tried suse 11.2, but went back to 11.0 because the fglrx driver didn't work
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10:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18689 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: move the looping over chunkhandlers code to a macro
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11:05<Zuu>Alberth: New patch with const problem fixed. Sorry about that, I shall try to remember to compile things before submitting next time.
11:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18690 /trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3469]: some keys that open windows that want to be located relatively to the toolbars/statusbar could cause a crash when in one of the end game screens
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11:15<andythenorth>oh dear, now I have to work with tile corner heights again :|
11:24<andythenorth>long shot: anyone have any nfo for providing custom foundations?
11:25<andythenorth>I can't even figure out pseudo code for it :|
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11:25<andythenorth>(the problem is detecting which of the many possible slope combinations a tile has)
11:26<andythenorth>there are 12 combinations, I need some kind of decision tree
11:26<andythenorth>I suck at this kind of thing :P
11:27<frosch123>no tree, just take the four/five slope bits and use them in one varact2
11:28<andythenorth>oh, that's nicer
11:32<scrooch>alright guys, i got the presignal thing now
11:33<scrooch>a solution to the next? http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9920/spijksmeretransport12th.png
11:33<sawtooth>it's so cold i think my internet pipes have just about frozen
11:33<scrooch>he problem is the trains cant leave because the one from the depot is blocking
11:34<scrooch>well, the signal on the other side of the depot track is blocking to be specific i think
11:34<scrooch>.. because the depotrails is connected to the rail going east
11:35<scrooch>let me make a better picture
11:36<scrooch>http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5699/spijksmeretransport10th.png
11:36<dragonhorseboy>scrooch what did I tell you about removing the depot tracks?
11:38<scrooch>i missed that ^^ lemme check
11:38<scrooch><dragonhorseboy> and lastly remove that piece of track connecting the two lines together in front of depot .. unless you want mess up with the signals
11:38<scrooch>got it hehe
11:39<dragonhorseboy>;)
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11:41<welshdragon>scrooch: move the depot 4 tiles right
11:41<andythenorth>industry tile var 60
11:41<andythenorth>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2IndustryTiles
11:42<andythenorth>makes my brain hurt
11:42<dragonhorseboy>lol I can see why that would
11:42<andythenorth>I want to use *just* the slope data from it
11:44<dragonhorseboy>andythenorth .. that would be ss bits?
11:45<dragonhorseboy>I'm going for now anyway :p
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11:46<scrooch>andythenorth: 4 to the right? so trains pick up speed or?
11:47<andythenorth>frosch123: could I beg some nfo help :D
11:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18691 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (7 files): -Change [NoAI]: cleanup some errors messages and add a few to AIWaypoint
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11:49<frosch123>andythenorth: 60 00 00 1F, var 60 param 0, shift 0, and 1f
11:49<Coco-Banana-Man>http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8948/drnercococo185102181.png <--- ok, it works like I wanted :D
11:50<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks
11:50<frosch123>http://svn.openttd.org/trunk/docs/tileh.png <- then those numbers in the varact2
11:50<andythenorth>hey that's a handy png
11:50<andythenorth>I've just drawn that on paper :)
11:50<frosch123>:p
11:50<andythenorth>can I access var 60 with 81 (as I only want a byte), or do I need to use 89
11:51<frosch123>byte is enough
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>why is that image "application/octet-stream"?
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12:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18692 /trunk/src/waypoint_cmd.cpp: -Fix: after a company went bankrupt it was impossible to build a new waypoint close to a deleted one until the grey sign was gone
12:13<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: because letting a remote server decide how you want to see a sequence of bytes is a bad idea?
12:16<andythenorth>frosch123: slope code works. epic win, thanks
12:16<Ciprian> hey
12:16<frosch123>:)
12:16<Ciprian> how I can transfer money to another company??
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12:17<frosch123>enable it in advanced settings, open the company window of the other company, and click the appropiate button
12:17<Ciprian>what button?
12:17<frosch123>hmm, or is it in the client list?
12:20<Zuu>Client list, right mouse button
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12:23<Ciprian>how I can transfer money to another company??
12:23<Ciprian>how I can transfer money to another company??
12:23<Yexo>is reading that hard? <Zuu> Client list, right mouse button
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12:29<Ciprian>where is client list?
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12:30<frosch123>ah well, are you actually playing multiplayer? or singleplayer?
12:30<Yexo>it's only available in multiplayer games, under the company icon I think
12:31<frosch123>in singleplayer you have to use the 'bank' to transfer money
12:31*Alberth waits for Ciprian to ask another two times
12:31*Zuu lols on an overenthuastic vim movie
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12:38<Ciprian>in singleplayer
12:38<Ciprian>and where is the 'bank'
12:38<Ciprian>frosch123
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12:40<Zuu>Ciprian: You can't transfer money in single player.
12:40<Zuu>You can cheat money to any company though.
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12:42<frosch123>Ciprian: press ctrl-alt-c, decrease your money by 10M, switch to other company, increase money by 10M and switch back
12:42<Ciprian>ahh
12:42<Ciprian>I know cheats
12:42<Ciprian>another question
12:42<Ciprian>cheats are
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12:42<Ciprian>cheats are in multiplayer?
12:42<Yexo>no
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12:51<Ciprian>how I can create an server?
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12:57<Ciprian> how I can create an server?
12:57<Ciprian> how I can create an server?
12:57<Ciprian> how I can create an server?
12:57<sawtooth>Ciprian: please stop repeating questions
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13:00<Luukland>Ciprian? OS please
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13:03<Ciprian>Microsoft Vista
13:04<Luukland>Ok
13:04<Luukland>Make another shortcut of opentt.exe
13:04<Luukland>* openttd.exe
13:05<Luukland>put it on desktop or wherever you want
13:05<Luukland>now right click -> properties
13:05<Luukland>-> target -> "C:\Chinese fish\openttd.exe" -D
13:05<Luukland>add the -D
13:06<Luukland>and run it
13:11<andythenorth>I've never created snow-versions of building sprites
13:11<andythenorth>I don't suppose there's any hidden magic?
13:11<frosch123>it's easy, just draw a white hill. you only need one sprite for all buildings :p
13:12<andythenorth>ah
13:12<andythenorth>I see
13:12<andythenorth>I was hoping for something cunning that avoids creating varaction 2 for every single tile...
13:12<andythenorth>I can see how to apply your method though
13:12<andythenorth>:P
13:12<frosch123>hehe, you are going to have a lot of fun with snowy custom foundations :p
13:12<andythenorth>I doubt it somehow :|
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13:23<andythenorth>fishing harbours: done
13:23<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=844938#p844938
13:23<andythenorth>:)
13:25<@peter1138>RELEASE!
13:25<@peter1138>;)
13:25<@peter1138>that looks fricking awesome
13:25<Alberth>andythenorth: looks great!
13:25<Yexo>ooh, very nice work andythenorth :)
13:25<andythenorth>yeah, nowhere to transport fish yet though :)
13:25<scrooch>looks good :)
13:26<Alberth>they all get eaten before they reach the shore :)
13:26<scrooch>how about some fish(nets) on the grey deck?
13:26<andythenorth>scrooch: maybe in 2011
13:26<andythenorth>we're leaving the extra detail out until all 60 industries are drawn and coded
13:26<andythenorth>;)
13:27<scrooch>ahh okay :) its good looking so far anyway :)
13:27<andythenorth>peter1138: hg checkout here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs
13:27<andythenorth>then make install...
13:29<@peter1138>later maybe
13:29<@peter1138>i am pondering a 'always make railtype available' flag
13:29<@peter1138>or perhaps 'make railtype availability dependent on railtype x'
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: in what way would that be used?
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18693 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Doc: Add some doxygen comments to smallmap code.
13:30<@peter1138>only one reason i can think of at the moment ;p
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13:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: you mean like "do not make availability depend on presence of vehicle models"?
13:31<@peter1138>yeah
13:32<@peter1138>hmm, two uses actually, although one can be done without it
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>something like combined catenary and 3rd rail, where never a vehicle would be designed to be used specifically with this type
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>so you'd say "railtype is available when both railtype X and railtype Y are available"
13:34<@peter1138>yeah
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>you could maybe make a full callback for that...
13:35<@peter1138>possibly
13:35<@peter1138>call it when a new vehicle is available
13:35<@peter1138>hmm
13:35<@peter1138>better than a flag eh?
13:35<@peter1138>although
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>anything that the newgrf authors can start to abuse ;)
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13:37<Eddi|zuHause>random thought: are the "compatible" and "powered on" flags be defined by the railtype or the vehicle?
13:38<@peter1138>railtype
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>so railtype A says: if vehicle has railtype B, it is compatible with A
13:38<@peter1138>something like that
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>ok, that sounds sensible ;)
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13:40<Eddi|zuHause>but concerning rack railway: some rack railway vehicles can run on conventional rail, but some not.
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>and they need some kind of callback, to change the tractive effort when switching between railtypes
13:41<andythenorth>sounds bonkers complicated :o
13:41<andythenorth>but fun
13:42<Ciprian>hey
13:43<Ciprian>where I can build an farm in arctic world?
13:43<Yexo>below the snowline I think
13:43<Ciprian>I try to build and I can`t
13:43<Yexo>I try to get the error you got but I can't
13:44<Yexo>s/get/guess/
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18694 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 7 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 10 changes by 2rB
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: polish - 4 changes by silver_777
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13:47<Ciprian>is there any romanian
13:47<Ciprian>?
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13:52<sawtooth>should also cover the dock in seagull droppings :)
13:53<scrooch>lol
13:53<scrooch>and some pole-axes
13:53<scrooch>with some seals
13:54<scrooch>sry i though seagull=seal ^^ *no im not romanian
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13:55<andythenorth>hmmm....how could the fishing boats be animated?
13:55<Alberth>catch a fish?
13:56<Alberth>getting lifted out of the water by the submarine?
13:56<andythenorth>sinking?
13:57<Alberth>nah, that's not a positive event
13:57<Alberth>people swimming around the boat?
13:58<andythenorth>no people in the game. them's the rules...in my view
13:58<murr4y>surrounded by sharks?
13:58<andythenorth>I like the strangely empty world...
13:58<andythenorth>like lego with no lego people
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14:01<Alberth>a bow wave?
14:02<welshdragon>hmm
14:03<welshdragon>i've noticed that ttdpatch now has Cargo Destinations in trunk
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14:09<@peter1138>has done for a while
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14:32<Mithras>Hello folks
14:33*Guest338 sighs
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14:35*LadyHawk fixed her nickserv access list
14:35<Mithras>^5
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14:40<Mithras>anyone else on the 10year arctic server?
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15:12<andythenorth>hmm...setting mini map industry colours....I could do with some kind of hex colour chart :|
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15:15<frosch123>isn't that the usual palette?
15:15<Alberth>yes (at least in the small map :) )
15:15<frosch123>oh, i guess you use dos colours by default
15:16<andythenorth>yup, it's dos. think my photoshop palette is the win version
15:17<andythenorth>hmm
15:17<frosch123>ttdviewer uses dos palette :p
15:17<andythenorth>there's got to be a way to make the mini-map industry view look better :|
15:17<andythenorth>it's my fault for coding so many industries :o
15:20<Alberth>andythenorth: that's why I made the heightmap optional in it
15:20<andythenorth>grey land would look better
15:20<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/advertise.png <- i knew i had a screenshot of the dos palette
15:21<Alberth>isn't paper-something industry grey?
15:21<Alberth>green-ish for land seems a logical choice
15:22<andythenorth>green has some horrible contrast issues
15:22<andythenorth>when combined with other colours
15:22<Alberth>ok, you're the expert :)
15:22<andythenorth>I don't suppose the mini-map colour has any newgrf hooks?
15:23<Alberth>nope, nicely hard-coded :)
15:23<andythenorth>oh :o
15:23<frosch123>what kind of hook? for the grass colour?
15:23<Alberth>except the industry colours of course :)
15:24<andythenorth>yes the grass colour
15:25<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46586
15:25<Alberth>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp#L225 tile-type -> colour mapping
15:25<Alberth>and 15 lines down another one
15:26<Alberth>first column is colour of 4 pixels, 2nd column is transparency
15:27<andythenorth>purple is better...http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46586&p=844987#p844987
15:29<Alberth>line 319 defines the 'grass' colour 0x54 or the heightmap
15:29<frosch123>[21:26] <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46586 <- hehe, it just became different-greenish some days ago
15:30<Alberth>frosch123: optional ;)
15:30<frosch123>oh, Terkhen already wrote that :)
15:30<@Rubidium>stupid linkedin...
15:31<frosch123>what, more spam?
15:31<Terkhen>I can see all industries with the purple color! :D
15:31<Alberth>the professional network with a no-reply email address :p
15:31<@Rubidium>frosch123: not quite, but apparantly by viewing any of their webpages you have a legally binding agreement with them
15:31*Terkhen never finds iron ore mines, food processors and the like
15:31<andythenorth>oh balls. that new map makes things worse for me :P
15:32<frosch123>hehe, i looked it up in wiki and decided to not explore it further :p
15:32<@Rubidium>frosch123: well... now I've sent a kinda ranting email to them to ask to cancel that agreement
15:33<andythenorth>that new map's in a nightly...right?
15:33<Alberth>andythenorth: grey looks alien-ish to me
15:33<@Rubidium>andythenorth: yes
15:33<Alberth>andythenorth: yes
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>"he ordered on the internet a penis enhancement device..."
15:33<Alberth>andythenorth: the dark-blue is a bit too much blue :)
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>"... and they sent him a magnifying glass"
15:34<andythenorth>and I now have to build mac nightlies myself?
15:34<andythenorth>(can't find them on openttd.org)
15:35<@Rubidium>wow... after a mere 169 hours you are the FIRST to notice that mac binaries aren't built anymore
15:35<@Rubidium>congratulations
15:35<andythenorth>uhm, thanks :D
15:36<@Rubidium>but yes, you have to compile them yourself
15:37<@Rubidium>maybe petert is interested in building them for you
15:38<andythenorth>thanks...err...I'll just try building one instead
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15:39<andythenorth>mac compile failed
15:39<andythenorth>http://paste.openttd.org/220821
15:40<andythenorth>nvm, another day
15:41<@Rubidium>that looks pretty much like a patch/svn update reject
15:42<andythenorth>it's probably something I've done
15:43<andythenorth>I have trouble understanding how to revert patches, I've followed web instructions, but I'm not convinced it's reverted properly
15:43<andythenorth>I'd checkout again, but it's ~2GB :o
15:43<frosch123>andythenorth: svn status
15:43<Terkhen>you should checkout only the trunk folder
15:43<@Rubidium>2 GB for a checkout?
15:44<andythenorth>I think I checked out the whole repo...
15:44<Alberth>that could be 2GB :)
15:44<andythenorth>2.57GB on my disk
15:44<@peter1138>you just want /trunk
15:44<andythenorth>dunno why I did that, my svn skills are weak
15:45<Alberth>andythenorth: actually 2.75GB/2 since svn makes a local copy of each file
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>check out only trunk next time
15:45<Alberth>andythenorth: as frosch123 suggested, start with svn status
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15:47<Alberth>or if you want to revert everything svn revert -R . from the root of your working copy (and then 'svn status' to check)
15:48*frosch123 assumes svnup.sh is even more useless since 1.6
15:48*andythenorth follows instructions
15:50<Terkhen>what kind of colour format is this? MKCOLOUR(0x5A5A5A5A)
15:51<@peter1138>palette index * 4
15:51<Alberth>Terkhen: 4 pixels 0x5A
15:51<Alberth>Directly blitted into the video memory
15:52<andythenorth>is boost a dependency for compiling now?
15:52<@peter1138>no
15:52<Terkhen>okay, thanks
15:52<andythenorth>oh poop
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15:53<Alberth>Terkhen: MKCOLOUR() does little/big endian shuffles
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15:59*andythenorth (mac compile worked)
16:00<andythenorth>no new map though :o
16:01*andythenorth silly mistake
16:03<andythenorth>hmm..not a silly mistake
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16:06<Alberth>andythenorth: there is an additional button next to the industry enable/disable buttons
16:08<andythenorth>I see it :)
16:09<andythenorth>lovely :)
16:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18695 /extra/website/ (frontpage/feeds.py templates/footer.html): [Website] -Update: another year has passed
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16:10*andythenorth ponders what to do with mini-map colours now yellow and grey have joined the 'invisible' list :P
16:10*andythenorth suspects the answer lies in that button :)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>where do years go oce you used them?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>*once
16:12<@Rubidium>oblivion? forgetfulness?
16:12<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: they are saved forever in the svn archive
16:13<@Rubidium>oh Lethe might be a nice one :)
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>hm... when was the last time you had 10cm of snow on one day?
16:14<@Rubidium>about two weeks ago
16:14<Terkhen>never
16:15<@Rubidium>and for the fun of it... we had officially a "white christmas", but the snow was mostly gone
16:15<Terkhen>the palette index refers to the _palettes vector at table/palettes.h?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it was the same here... but it wasn't 10cm, more like 2cm before christmas
16:16<Alberth>Terkhen: I used this: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/ottd-colour-palette.gif
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: so, did you ever see snow at all? :p
16:17<Terkhen>Alberth: thanks, that's better :)
16:17<Alberth>and in my webbrowser, some of the colours are animated :)
16:17<@Rubidium>but... Madrid has like more snow that the Netherlands
16:17<@Rubidium>so apparantly you don't live in Madrid
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>madrid has kinda high altitude
16:19<Terkhen>we have 1.5 meters of snow at 30 km right now, but in Granada almost never snows
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>granada is south coast
16:20<Alberth>Terkhen: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/industry-colours.png has yellow boxes around the standard industry colours, unfortunately, my editor seems to have killed the animation.
16:21<Terkhen>Alberth: thanks :)
16:21<Alberth>red boxes are the current contour colours
16:21<andythenorth>that's might useful to me as well :)
16:22<andythenorth>mighty /s
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>you really use "mighty" that way?
16:23<andythenorth>apparently I just did
16:23<Alberth>it doesn't sound wrong to me
16:23<andythenorth>hmmm....if an industry accepts 3 random cargos from a possible 6, that's annoying, right?
16:24<Alberth>most players would tend to agree :)
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>no, not wrong, i just did never hear it used that way in english. it's used in german in the same way, though
16:25<andythenorth>I have one industry that I just keep wanting to randomise cargos for. I think it's a bad idea though
16:25<NeosaD>«Terkhen» are you from spain?
16:25<NeosaD>ups, sorry colors
16:25<Terkhen>NeosaD: yes
16:25-!-Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>i think colour codes are stripped in this channel
16:26<NeosaD>yo soy de Barcelona ^^
16:28<Terkhen>:)
16:30<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/bad.png :s
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16:30<Xaroth>huh?
16:31<@Rubidium>is that 'disused' rail?
16:31<Terkhen>I have set the background colour to one of the animated colours... I can distinguish all industries now, but I think my eyes will bleed if I use this for long
16:31<Xaroth>destruction?
16:31<dragonhorseboy>...??
16:31<@peter1138>or would be if i could draw better
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16:32<scrooch>hi
16:32*dragonhorseboy wonders what xaroth is going on about now
16:32<Xaroth>dragonhorseboy: check peter1138's link
16:33<Xaroth>it clearly states Railway Destruction
16:33<dragonhorseboy>what link?
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: how was it done in the "grass on rails" patch?
16:33-!-sparrL2 [~kvirc@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<scrooch>i'd like to make this: Roundabout with path based signals (PBS)
16:33<Xaroth>-22:30:25- [@peter1138]: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/bad.png :s
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16:33<scrooch>i have this: http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6463/spijksmeretransport18th.png
16:33<scrooch>what did i make wrong?
16:33<Xaroth>er
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16:33<Xaroth>the fact you didn't use PBS?
16:33<Alberth>Terkhen: better blink the industry?
16:33<scrooch>this is what i want http://wiki.openttd.org/images/3/34/Roundabout_pathsignals.png
16:33<Xaroth>you used pre/exit signals
16:34<Alberth>Terkhen: I was thinking not to make disabled industry disappear, but use some standard colour eg darkred
16:34<Xaroth>scrooch: oh, and look at the signals exiting the roundabout
16:34<scrooch>yeah, the wikipedia doesnt cleary mention... Xaroth I dont understand which signals to use then
16:34<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, pass
16:34<dragonhorseboy>peter...I think I actually like the brown ballast but some lightly-rottening ties would look a bit better
16:35<dragonhorseboy>scrooch .. where does it not clearly mention?
16:35<Terkhen>Alberth: that would help me, I could disable all brown industries to be able to find them
16:35<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, ah, that leaves more of the track intact
16:35<scrooch>http://wiki.openttd.org/Roundabout At the 2nd picture... The article leaves out what signals exactly to use
16:36-!-fjb [~frank@p5485BB99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:36<dragonhorseboy>scrooch did you not read? it clearly says PBS
16:36<scrooch>yes i did read that... It is that im a beginner, I took that website as reference... That article assumes you already know PBS
16:36<scrooch>... which i do not yet :)
16:37<Alberth>Terkhen: colour 37, 39, and 55
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>scrooch: then add a clearer hint to the Path Signals page
16:38<dragonhorseboy>scrooch..well if you don't even know why there's more than one signal icon in the signal construction toolbar even after clicking then .. well .. I dunno sorry
16:38<dragonhorseboy>click...hm .. I meant .. rightclick
16:39<Alberth>scrooch: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Path_Signals
16:39<scrooch>http://wiki.openttd.org/PBS ah i got it :) Thanks guys that wasnt to hard
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16:40<Alberth>but as Eddi|zuHause suggested, plz improve the wiki at points you find unclear.
16:40<scrooch>yeah well im not registered there unfortunately
16:40<Alberth>we are all too familiar with the program to notice such problems
16:40<scrooch>and i guess id have to make references everywhere
16:41<Terkhen>Alberth: thanks, I'll try to write a patch for my own use that changes these colours to something else
16:41<frosch123>night
16:41<Alberth>night
16:41<andythenorth>night
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16:41<dragonhorseboy>bye frosch
16:41<dragonhorseboy>blah :S
16:41<andythenorth>Terkhen: that can be done with newgrf....
16:41<Alberth>12 seconds, that's long :)
16:41*dragonhorseboy wonders if alberth has more life than only a single irc window ;)
16:42<Terkhen>andythenorth: I know, but using a newgrf would force all people playing with me to use strange colours
16:42<Alberth>lucky enough, you guys don't show up until it is afternoon/evening :)
16:42<dragonhorseboy>heh
16:43<andythenorth>Terkhen: that makes sense :)
16:43<Alberth>or rather, start discussing interesting topics :)
16:43<Terkhen>besides, even coding simple newgrf is still very difficult for me
16:43<andythenorth>:P
16:43<andythenorth>easy peasy
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>i presume it's not possible to do as a static newgrf?
16:44<Alberth>Terkhen: It is a valid point that should be handled by the program I think. I just don't know how atm however.
16:44<andythenorth>Terkhen: are you r-g colour blind?
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16:46<Alberth>Terkhen: src/table/build_industry.h contains the standard industry settings, eg line 1380 says 55 for the iron ore mine (colour 55)
16:47<Alberth>good night
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16:47<Terkhen>yes, but not fully... I can distinguish clear reds and green easily, I only confuse dark tones
16:47<Terkhen>thanks again, Alberth :)
16:47<Terkhen>good night
16:48<dragonhorseboy>hey welshdragon
16:48<Alberth>Terkhen: have fun with all the new industries :p
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16:48<andythenorth>Terkhen: we are trying to make FIRS map colours usable for people with r-g colour blind
16:48<Terkhen>that's good :)
16:49<Terkhen>the biggest problem is the green background... if it had another colour I would not have any problems
16:49<andythenorth>me neither
16:49<andythenorth>so a new background colour...?
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16:51<Terkhen>I only need 16 scaled colours that are not green or red at the pallete to start working in a patch
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16:53<resq>hallo, I have a question (I know its lame but anyway) Ive read on openttd wiki and on some other website about expanding towns, I did as suggested but my city didnt grow at all for 20 years
16:54<Terkhen>I also can hack the smallmap so that all browns are converted to another colours, but that's less cleaner
16:54-!-skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:54<resq>I had 2 big train stations with few connections, about 4 bus stops, I was bringing goods into city, passengers, mail and nothing for 20 years
16:55<resq>meanwhile in other city I had about 3 bus stops with 3 buses and it has grown about 4000 ppl, of course at the start it had 7000, and mine has only 2000
16:55<resq>is it normal?
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17:04<andythenorth>Terkhen: can I help with the map in anyway?
17:05<dragonhorseboy>andythenorth .. did we talk before about FIRS and re you having some more work to do on it at that time before?
17:05<andythenorth>dragonhorseboy: yes
17:05<andythenorth>do you have a question?
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17:08<dragonhorseboy>heh no just checking it was the same person
17:08<dragonhorseboy>sometimes I forget names
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17:10<dragonhorseboy>andythenorth btw I looked at the graphics page and...
17:10<dragonhorseboy>I actually want these farms NOW!!! blah :p nice modular approach
17:10<andythenorth>they're in the existing nightly builds
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17:13<dragonhorseboy>*goes look for it*
17:13<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44177
17:14<Terkhen>andythenorth: I think I can only get 16 colours with reds (same problem) and blues (sea)
17:15<andythenorth>I find the same problem
17:15<andythenorth>that's why I think making the land and sea similar hue (blue / purple) frees a colour (green)
17:16<andythenorth>and eliminates the r-g colour blind problem....
17:16<andythenorth>I have to find 64 colours :|
17:16<Terkhen>and I'm pretty sure that using colours that are not in the palette will be difficult if not impossible
17:16<Terkhen>okay, I'll try with blue
17:21<dragonhorseboy>hmm would anyone recognize this trainset? http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=113363
17:22<dragonhorseboy>looks like a set that has very early locomotives as noted by the old roof look on what appears to be a regional coach
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17:28<dragonhorseboy>andythenorth either way hmm I might try out the nightly firs grf later on too
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17:47<Terkhen>compiling...
17:50<NeosaD>^^
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17:56<Terkhen>andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46586&p=845015#p845015
17:56<Terkhen>not looking good, but it is a start
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18:44<dragonhorseboy>hmm quiet time now
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18:46<Terkhen>hmmm... I can't find any colour scheme that looks nice and don't conflicts with existing industries
18:46-!-scrooch [541e16c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
18:48<Terkhen>I'll try again tomorrow
18:48<Terkhen>good night
18:48<@Rubidium>night Terkhen
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18:50<dragonhorseboy>wow jeeze FIRS sure is something and I haven't even unpaused the game yet lol
18:52<dragonhorseboy>think I'll save it for another time
18:52<dragonhorseboy>going take quite some time to assemble something :p
18:53<dragonhorseboy>well I'm going off for a while now
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20:28<MegaDeath409>Hey what revision is the ottd1.0beta1?
20:29<+glx>it's tags/1.0.0-beta1
20:30<+glx>revision is not important
20:31<MegaDeath409>i need the revision number previous to or after it so i know which version of infrastructure sharing to get
20:31<MegaDeath409>ok a better question would be "Is r18637 before or after 1.0.0-beta1?"
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20:32<+glx>after
20:32<MegaDeath409>ok thank you :)
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21:00<dragonhorseboy>hey
21:03<NeosaD>^^
21:11<dragonhorseboy>so what doing?
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21:15<NeosaD>me?
21:15<NeosaD>I'm going crazy with mingw and wget ...
21:16<dragonhorseboy>heh ok
21:17<NeosaD>i'm folowing this ->http://wiki.openttd.org/Mingw
21:17<NeosaD>but in the part of compiling wget...
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 03 00:00:24 2010