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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-04

---Logopened Mon Jan 04 00:00:31 2010
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03:35<heller>to make a portable version just move config and save to where exe is?
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03:47<heller>in what situation do ppl use trams?
03:48<heller>they are slower and kinda bulky
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03:57<Xaroth>heller: seeing there's no real goals in TTD, I guess for looks :)
04:04-!-George3 is now known as George
04:04<George>Hi
04:05<George>a question about random action 2 and CB 17
04:05<George>2595 * 17 02 07 CF 00 8C 05 00 00 5A 12 00 00 00 00 10 10 40
04:05<George> 2596 * 17 02 07 CF 85 0C 00 FF FF 01 00 80 17 00 17 00 CF 00
04:05<George> 2597 * 39 02 07 FF 80 00 00 10 C0 00 C1 00 C2 00 C3 00 C4 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00 CF 00
04:05<George> 2598 * 7 03 07 01 F7 00 FF 00
04:05<George>Why do I get CF view?
04:07<George>line 2596 should, IMHO disallow CF view
04:07<George>But I get it in the map!
04:08<George>Does randomizing happen after CB 17?
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04:14<Terkhen>good morning
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04:42<planetmaker><heller> in what situation do ppl use trams? <-- I don't consider 80km/h and 350 people slow and bulky...
04:42<planetmaker>probably even faster. Dunno by heart
04:43<roboboy>what LA rating do I need to remove a whole tile of road?
04:43<roboboy>hm don't need the answere as the game let me build even though my rating didnt change
04:46<Xaroth>then you won't get the answer :)
04:46<Xaroth>o/ planetmaker
04:46<roboboy>it would still be interesting to know, I looked at the wiki and it confused me
04:47<Xaroth>I wouldn't know either :P
04:47<planetmaker>moin Xaroth :-)
04:47<planetmaker>roboboy, look at the source code ;-)
04:48<roboboy>I was wondering if it would be possible to change the way signs are displayed when station signs are set to be transparent as I find it annoying not being able to see who owns a sign without going to the sign list when signs are set to transparent.
04:49<planetmaker>the owner can change anyway ;-)
04:50*roboboy knows but the current owner is still useful
04:50<roboboy>and I also just prefer them being left that way
04:51-!-bartaway is now known as bartavelle
04:53<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: so you simply change the font colour like for the station signs?
04:53<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't be that difficult
04:55<roboboy>that would also work =
04:56<roboboy>either would suffice and I think changing the colour of the text would be cleaner
04:58<roboboy>should all the settings in the dificulty settings be greyed out in mp for clients?
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>most of them
04:59<roboboy>I can not change any of them but some are not gryed out
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05:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really know multiplayer
05:01<roboboy>ok
05:01<George>Eddi|zuHause: Hi, > Does randomizing happen after CB 17?
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05:02<Eddi|zuHause>George: sorry. no clue.
05:02<George>How it can be tested?
05:03<George>Or should I simply make a bugreport because of that? Of feature request?
05:05<bartavelle>hello
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05:25<George>tokai: May be you know > Does randomizing happen after CB 17?
05:27<+tokai>I don't know, sorry. :)
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05:30<@peter1138>George, the house doesn't exist during CB 17, so there will be no random data
05:30<George>Is it possible to change it?
05:32<@peter1138>hmm, they could be placed in var10
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05:33<George>You mean place it in var 10 and then apply to the house when it is build? IMHO, that's fine
05:33<@peter1138>yes
05:33<George>I made a feature request for that FS#3477
05:34<@peter1138>hehe, piggy bank
05:35<George>It was just a test :)
05:35<George>It should not appear ;)
05:35<George>CB 17 returned 00 80 for it
05:37<@peter1138>the question is, are the random bits available as normal in ttdpatch?
05:37<George>as normal?
05:39<@peter1138>the way you expected it to work to start with
05:39<@peter1138>does your code you posted work in ttdpatch :)
05:43<@peter1138>the wiki says variables are not available, so probably not
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05:53<George>I do know, never tested in TTDP
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06:02<@peter1138>if you could do a quick test case that would be grand
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06:03<@peter1138>there is a patch attached to FS#3477 to do the var10 change as well
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06:08<George>sorry, I do not compile, could you provide win32 executable?
06:10<George>Do I understand it right, that in CB 17 I should check var 10 and disable house in case of random value 0Fh, that is used for varianth CF?
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06:30<tennel>hello, i have a question about the OpenTTD logo. Stands the logo under Copyright or another license. I'm planing to print it on a t-shirt.
06:31<blathijs>I think its GPL licensed, just like the rest of the sources
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06:31<tennel>ok, thanks. Is it available as an SVG?
06:31<Ammler> the svg version is done by a wikipedia guy afaik
06:32<@Rubidium>tennel: yes, see the media directory of a trunk checkout
06:32<blathijs>tennel: I think there is an SVG in the source tarball
06:33<tennel>ty, and have a nice day
06:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18710 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Fix [FS#3478]: the wrong town is mentioned in the error when trying to make one way roads of town owned roads
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07:25<George>peter1138: test GRF provided for FS#3477
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09:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18711 /trunk/docs/landscape.html: -Doc: update landscape documentation about m1 (tile owner)
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11:38<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18712 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r5167): Spurious character spacing with free type fonts for small and large font sizes.
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12:44<planetmaker>:-D @ Yexo
12:44<planetmaker>same answer in the same minute to the same thread ;-)
12:44<Yexo>hehe :)
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12:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18713 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3476]: the join station window didn't account for scrolling, so if you did scroll the station was not joined with the selected station
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12:58<Eddi|zuHause>err... what? :p
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13:04<fjb>The station list in the window did visibly scroll, but you always got the station that was displayed at that position in the list before you started scrolling.
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13:05<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18714 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move the TileArea struct to it's own header
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13:12<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18715 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: make StationFinder a subclass of TileArea
13:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18716 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: pass a TileArea to FindStationsAroundTiles
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it's missing the "supercool-feature" commit...
13:18<@peter1138>-Feature: NewFeatures
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13:18<planetmaker>-Feature: Hidden Feature
13:19<Noldo>now that's a commit message
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>too bad it's spoiled now
13:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18717 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use TileArea in industry instead of three separate variables. Also make use of TileArea functions for determining the 'width' and 'height' of an industry.
13:27<@peter1138>well this lots smells of clean up to me ;)
13:27<@peter1138>-s
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>yeah. rubidium is on a big cleaning spree this past year ;)
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>but it usually ends with a "make feature XY actually useful, now that it is cleaned up" :)
13:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18718 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make a wrapper macro for looping TileAreas
13:30<Yexo>this smells like something I should use in newairports, thus making it more work
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13:32<@peter1138>heh
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13:34<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18719 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: don't delete the rough/rocky status of a tile when it's covered by snow, this allows rocky tiles under snow if you have a variable snowline
13:35<planetmaker>yeah! :-)
13:35<planetmaker>nice feature :-)
13:36<frosch123>it only lacks the "do not let snow line changes hurt my eyes"-feature
13:37<planetmaker>hu? say again please?
13:37<planetmaker>you mean changing snow lines hurt the eyes? :-)
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13:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18720 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: simplify looping and validation of CmdBuildCanal
13:38<planetmaker>why? Due to the way the tile loop works? with the stripe-like decay or emergance of snow?
13:38<frosch123>don't you get dizzy when looking at a screen of grass tiles which all change their snow amount at once?
13:39<planetmaker>but yes, I'm a fan of only gradual and small snow line changes. But a bit doesn't hurt :-)
13:39<planetmaker>it looks a bit ugly on a big plane of the same height.
13:39<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18721 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tilelist.cpp ai_tilelist.hpp): -Codechange: simplify adding/removing rectangles of tiles from AITileLists
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18722 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: greek - 36 changes by fumantsu
13:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18723 /trunk/src/ (terraform_cmd.cpp terraform_gui.cpp tree_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: also simplify looping over an area when building trees, desert, rocky areas or leveling land
13:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18724 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3475] (r17899): refitting a non-refittable vehicle to it's default cargotype failed, causing problems for AIs
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14:13<Lathund>I just downloed OpenTTD and ran the game direcly from the folder. However, I dont have any icon for it, where should the missing icon be?
14:15<@Rubidium>what OS?
14:15<Yexo>where did you expect an icon?
14:16<Lathund>Ubuntu
14:17<Lathund>In the GNOME panel.
14:18<@Rubidium>it should be in the media directory
14:19<Lathund>Hm, found some icons there.
14:19<Lathund>But I still get a "generic" icon in the panel?
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>in which way did you install it?
14:25<Lathund>I didnt. I just ran the game from the folder I downloaded.
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>when i run directly from an svn-checkout i must create a symlink bin/media ../media
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14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18725 /trunk/ (17 files in 6 dirs):
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: [NoAI] AIWaypoint::WaypointType and AIWaypoint::HasWaypointType().
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: [NoAI] Constructor of AIWaypoint now takes a WaypointType to also handle buoys.
14:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Remove: [NoAI] AIBuoyList.
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15:17<PeterT>Wow, lots of revisions today
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15:23<planetmaker>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/landscape.html <-- are those docs somehow also accessible in a way to view them as html (and not as source)?
15:24<planetmaker>I know that I can open the file locally. But I'd like to link it in a way so that it can be viewed conveniently
15:25<frosch123>http://svn.openttd.org/trunk/docs/landscape.html <- that removes at least the stuff around it
15:25<frosch123>now you only need to cheat the mimetypes
15:25<frosch123>same for the .png
15:25<planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/raw-file/ed5d37886257/docs/landscape.html works... nvm then :-)
15:25<frosch123>maybe the svn property would help
15:26<planetmaker>thanks though. Oh, and thanks for the grf-checking yesterday :-)
15:26<SpComb>is the base GRF set network-client-independant?
15:26<planetmaker>yes
15:27<frosch123>even the used palette is
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15:35<rane>hey, I'm trying to use newgrf packs on a dedicated linux server (with CLI) but can't seem to figure out how, any advice?
15:36<frosch123>set up the game locally with a gui, then copy openttd.cfg and the grfs to the server
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15:37<planetmaker>copying the cfg might be a bad idea.
15:37<planetmaker>just copying newgrf and savegame suffice
15:38<planetmaker>(assuming that the server's cfg holds IP information and alike)
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15:59<rane>hmm, it's complaining that it can't find the NewGRF pack
15:59<rane>I copied the .tar file
16:00<rane>to ~/.openttd/content_download/data
16:00<rane>as it was on the windows machine
16:03<Eoin>dont stick GRFs in the content_download
16:03<rane>problem solved, changed backslash to forward slash
16:03<Eoin>they go in the main data
16:03<rane>well
16:03<Eoin>oh your on linux
16:03<Eoin>strange being that is :D
16:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18726 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
16:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3463]: with non-uniform industries the 'supplies' text when building a station could be incorrect (missing a cargo)
16:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: AITile::GetCargoProduction now returns the number of producers and not the number of tiles of producers.
16:10<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: AITileList_IndustryProducing would omit some tiles for at which a station would get cargo.
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16:26<rane>is there any newgrf train set you would recommend for casual 2-player coop playing?
16:27<Eoin>Well
16:27<PeterT>Dutch Trainset, rane
16:27<Eoin>do you like british trains? german trains?
16:27<Eoin>north american?
16:27<Eoin>or a mix of all
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16:28<rane>well, no preference in that sense, just something that looks decent and has no game-breaking effects
16:28<Eoin>well
16:28<rane>there aren't too many engines when playing with default settings
16:28<Eoin>id suggest 2CC but id probably get eaten alive
16:29<Eoin>so use UKRS :D
16:29<rane>does UKRS still have monorail/maglev etc. when playing on temperate?
16:30<Eoin>i dont think it adds engines for it
16:30<Eoin>2CC does
16:30<rane>also, I read it's not sub-arctic or sub-tropical compatible
16:30<Eoin>i think
16:30<Eoin>:D
16:38<gathers>just tried to turn on music again and found I now need bin/gm/orig_win.obm in ~/.openttd/gm/ for the music set to be found?
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16:40<gathers>but how come I don't need bin/data/orig_win.obg (or orig_win.obs) in ~/.openttd/data/
16:41<Yexo>because it's already somewhere else where openttd can find it?
16:42<gathers>shouldn't orig_win.obm be as well then?
16:43<Yexo>I don't know where you put it
16:43<Yexo>or where the installer puts those files on linux by default
16:43<gathers>haven't used the installer, compiled myself
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16:44<gathers>so they're found from that bin/data or bin/gm
16:44<rane>by the way, what does variety distribution mean in world generation options?
16:44<gathers>putting the music files (no obm) in .openttd used to work up until recenty
16:44<Yexo>rane: easiest way to find out is by trying
16:44<rane>I am
16:45<Yexo>put it to high, generate a new map, don't change any settings, then set it to none and generate a map again
16:45<Yexo>it's most visible on mountainous maps
16:47<gathers>rane, two previous answers to the same question I found in chatlog: "size of landscape features roughly speaking" and "it controls whether a hilly landscape is hilly in all places or also mountainious and flat in some"
16:47<Yexo>gathers: no idea, it works fine that way in my windows local compile
16:47<rane>gathers: high variety would be the latter, I guess?
16:48<Yexo>yes
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16:53<Eoin>hmm
16:53<Eoin>is there any way to compile for linux.. in windows
16:53<Sacro>Yes
16:53<Eoin>need linux cargodist for mate, but his linux wont compile
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16:54<@Rubidium>is fixing you mate's install easier than setting Windows up to compile for Linux? Quite likely
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16:54<Eoin>well
16:54<Eoin>welshdragon get yer arse here
16:54<@Rubidium>oh... you need to compile binaries for welshdragon?
16:54<gathers>Yexo, nevermind what I said about orig_win.obm being needed in .openttd, I just got confused because you can't change music sets when a game is running, only from the title menu
16:54<Eoin>yeh
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16:55<Yexo>oh, I didn't know that either
16:55<gathers>sorry for the noise
16:55<Yexo>no problem at all
16:55<@Rubidium>Eoin: then his install isn't broken, it's just that his hardware is broken... so you'll likely get complaints that the binary you made crashes all the time
16:56<Eoin>well
16:56<Eoin>he has a mac
16:56<Eoin>wonder if he could built it on mac
16:56<Eoin>build*
16:57<gathers>what linux are you compiling for?
16:57<Eoin>he is doing it in ubuntu 9.1
16:57<Eoin>err 9.10
16:58<Noldo>shouldn't be too hard
16:58-!-andythenorth [~andy@87.115.32.19.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
16:58<gathers>have 9.04 but I dunno if I could build something that works for 9.10
16:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18727 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3480]: some invalid gender/plural indices in strings, which could eventually cause crashes.
16:59<Eoin>well
17:00<Eoin>It should work on 9.10
17:00<Noldo>you just need a compiler and some libs
17:01<+glx>anyway he has RAM errors
17:01<@Rubidium>Noldo/Eoin: last night we have had a *very* long discussion about welshdragon's problem. It turned out that his memory is broken (so says memtest) and as a result of that gcc segfaults compiling even the most simple things
17:01<Noldo>:D
17:01<Eoin>you did? :O
17:01<Eoin>i fell asleep at 10pm lol
17:02<PeterT>oh noes, that's wayyy too early to sleep, ain't it?
17:02<Eoin>so basically he cant compile it himself
17:02<+glx>even running it may fail
17:02<Yexo>so basically he should replace his ram before he doesn anything else with his computer
17:02<Eoin>or just stick to his mac
17:03<Yexo>or that ^^
17:03<Eoin>right, time to get him to compile on his macbook :D
17:03<Eoin>my cargodist game is lonley :(
17:05<PeterT>lol, mac + developing = explosion
17:06<Eoin>ah dear
17:06<Eoin>ill be lonley on cargodist then :D
17:07<andythenorth>just compile it on the mac, it's trivial. slow, but trivial
17:07<Eoin>fucking hell
17:07<Eoin>my pc froze again
17:07<Eoin>im healing a 25 man raid on WoW :|
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17:10<__ln>http://gallery.mkkm.fi/112/helsinki/04-01-2010-raideliikenneonnettomuus/_MG_7101.jpg.php
17:10<gathers>Eoin, want to help test if my timetable separation patch works on network games, with cargodist? If you could compile it for yourself that is
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17:14<Eoin>Well
17:14<Eoin>i have compiler set up on my pc
17:14<Eoin>but it dosent seem to work :D
17:14<Noldo>__ln: you can't have that on openttd because there can be no wagons without an engine
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17:15<@peter1138>ttp://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/middle.png < almost
17:15<gathers>Eoin, perhaps some other time then :P
17:15<@peter1138>+h
17:15<Eoin>well
17:15<@peter1138>although if it had no engine it wouldn't be able to leave the depot...
17:15<Eoin>PeterT could compile it
17:16<PeterT>peter1138: Your link is missing an "h"
17:16<@peter1138>hence "+h"
17:16<Eoin>he did say +h
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17:16<Sacro>what happened to /o/ ?
17:17<@peter1138>still there
17:17<rane>is there a way to "ping" a position in the map, like say, in warcraft3 to bring players attention on some place?
17:17<rane>I find signs a bit inconvenient to use
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>__ln: i'm not entirely able to put my finger on it, but something in that picture looks wrong...
17:17<planetmaker>scrollto x
17:17<Eoin>and wtf is with your consist? :D
17:18<@peter1138>well it's a test innit
17:18<Eoin>innit blud
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: needs a (newgrf-y) way to define that the front vehicle must be a steering wagon
17:19<Eoin>PeterT: be a darling and fix my compiler when im done on WoW :D
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17:20<PeterT>Eoin: Later, I have homework to do
17:20<PeterT>at 6:00 PM?
17:20<dragonhorseboy>hey
17:20<PeterT>12:00AM your time
17:20<Eoin>sure
17:20<Yexo>rane: use the land information tool to get the tileid, then use "scrollto tileid" to scroll to that tile
17:20<Eoin>now, to wow!
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17:26<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18728 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix: don't mark all tiles dirty in the artic tileloop
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17:48<PeterT>Alberth: Are you in here?
17:51<dragonhorseboy>probably doesn't look like it?
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18:00<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r18729 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3427]: the lock in the company gui was only drawn for your own company
18:01<Eoin>yay Yexo fixed it!
18:02<PeterT>Yexo: Thanks for that
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18:12<PeterT>andythenorth: You have some translators: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=845727#p845727
18:14<andythenorth>PeterT: thanks
18:14<PeterT>looks like some people are so obsessed with FIRS that they would take their 75 minutes to translate
18:15<Yexo>....
18:15<Yexo>ever considered howmuch time creating FIRS has cost?
18:15<PeterT>a lot
18:16<Lakie>less than openttd?
18:16<Lakie>;)
18:16<andythenorth>planetmaker: ^^ I've committed the polish language pnfo file, but I don't know how to make it available as a language?
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18:18<andythenorth>also...good night :)
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18:20<rane>are there any scenarios or something like that with path signals so that I could see live examples on how they function, I tried reading wiki but still don't get it when and how to use them
18:20<Yexo>try downloading one of the openttdcoop savegames
18:20<Yexo>they might be a bit massive but they have all kind of signalling
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18:25<rane>okay, thanks
18:34<rane>why are my UKRS trains going max. 96km/h regardless of higher speed reported in train information?
18:34<Yexo>not enough power?
18:34<PeterT>are you using coal wagons?
18:34<rane>bolster wagons refitted to wood
18:35<+glx>wagon speed limit
18:35<rane>yeah, that's it...
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19:20<PeterT>How do you get a picture of an industry to look like this: http://wiki.openttd.org/images/6/62/Lumbermill.png ?
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19:31<fjb>Load it into gimp?
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19:43<PeterT>looks nicer with an image; http://wiki.openttd.org/Sugar_Mine
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19:58<Terkhen>good night
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20:00<PeterT>Night
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20:22<dragonhorseboy>just had to ask a quick question if noone minds .. how much input and/or output can one single town building have?
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21:09<sparr>how does a train with no orders decide which way to go at a split?
21:10<PeterT>penalties?
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21:49<+glx>sparr: random
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21:58<NoFace>hello
21:58<NoFace>anyone around? I'm looking for some strategy links
21:58<NoFace>specifically to do with train length and servicing industries the "right" amount
21:59<NoFace>like whether it's better to sit a massive train in there picking up everything, or have a bunch of tiny trains constantly moving through
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22:08<PeterT>NoFace:
22:09<PeterT>NoFace: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics
22:10<PeterT>NoFace: Specifically this section: http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics#Industry_production
22:11<NoFace>thanks Peter, I only just found that page and am slowly reading through it :P
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22:12<NoFace>the station rating sections seems to imply that advertising campaigns and statues can result in greater industry output
22:12<NoFace>is that correct? or is it only for passengers?
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22:20<PeterT>NoFace: Advertising Campaigns boost the station rating
22:21<PeterT>which in-turn gives you a better chance of getting more of the product from an industry
22:21<PeterT>the statues, not sure
22:21<PeterT>I don't think so, NoFace
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 05 00:00:33 2010