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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-08

---Logopened Fri Jan 08 00:00:37 2010
00:01<Forked>min_active_clients ?
00:12<roboboy>how do I change a config value using the console?
00:13<TheTrav>roboboy: I think I was looking at a page that had that like, 20 mintues ago
00:13<roboboy>found it
00:14<TheTrav>ahh good
00:14<TheTrav>do you know what min_active_clients does?
00:14<Forked>Set it to two and see if the game runs with only one player :)
00:15<roboboy>I would think 2 requires two people excluding the server if it is dedicated
00:16<roboboy>hm is 0 Off and 1 On?
00:16<roboboy>blah is 0 False and 1 True?
00:16-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm140.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd
00:17<roboboy>the console tells me that the current setting is False and that the min value is 0 and max is 1
00:17<roboboy>and if I try and set it to True it tells me True is not an integer
00:20<roboboy>all fixed
00:21<TheTrav>fun times
00:35-!-Dade [~Dade@125.67-212-47-net.sccoast.net] has joined #openttd
00:35<Dade>Hello all
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00:55*roboboy wonders if it would be worth adding the ability to run OpenTTD as a windows service
00:56<roboboy>grr old MS Setups can be a pain on modern computers
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01:26<roboboy>hm runing openTTD with -D still requires a sound set
01:27<Forked>there is a nosound set though?
01:28<roboboy>I didnt download it on install as I thought dedicated wouldnt need it
01:29<roboboy>lets see if NT Wrapper can run openTTD as a service
01:30<roboboy>or once all the bits of OpenTTD are installed
01:31-!-DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:35<roboboy>it works
01:58-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@38.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
01:59<Terkhen>good morning
02:07<Pikka>guten morgen mein herr
02:10<@Rubidium>0h... he's having his German phase again?
02:12<Pikka>is he?
02:17<@peter1138>it is the pikka monster
02:18<Pikka>jawohl
02:18<Pikka>peetar
02:18<Pikka>I wanted to play on your server
02:18<Pikka>but big map + late game = unhappy eee
02:18<@peter1138>Rubidium is using vb :(
02:18<Pikka>victoria bitter! horrible stuff.
02:19<Pikka>http://www.beerstore.com.au/beerstore/uploads/beerImages/Victoria_Bitter_Large.jpg
02:19*Pikka shrugs
02:20<@peter1138>project 1k is... ftw
02:20<@peter1138>except for being unfinished ;(
02:20<Pikka>sorry
02:21<Pikka>I'm in el japons away from my computer until the end of next month
02:21<@peter1138>apparently so
02:24<Pikka>but when I return!
02:24<Pikka>I shall start to finish beginning completion of pj1k!
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02:27<@Rubidium>peter1138: which of the at least 3 VBs? VirtualBox, Visual Basic or Vista Basic?
02:28<roboboy>Does anyone think it might be use enableing openTTD to be run as a windows service?
02:29<@Rubidium>no. There're already more than enough idle for the whole time servers
02:30<@Rubidium>e.g. http://www.openttd.org/en/server/25
02:30<@Rubidium>has been running for years without anyone playing on it
02:31<@Rubidium>with a Windows service you're likely to only make that worse
02:31<roboboy>hm yeah
02:31<roboboy>ill keep using my program that allows normal programs to be run as services
02:32<roboboy>its only a local game for myself and friends
02:35<Singaporekid>pikka is op
02:37<Pikka>oh look
02:37<Pikka>it's tavish mcgroot
02:38-!-Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
02:39<@peter1138>Rubidium, one in which "0h" is valid
02:39-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
02:42<roboboy>is reffiting in terms of grfs and capacities handled entirely by the grf
02:43<roboboy>hm my aircraft are full loading even though I didnt tell them to
02:43<roboboy>or they were
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02:47*roboboy feels there are still a few reference to road vehicles that could do with changing to Tram
02:48<roboboy>eg the red error box that comes up when trying to turn a tram around
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03:01*peter1138 ponders variable radius farms
03:02<Pikka>oh?
03:02<Pikka>give us fully customisable fields, whydoncha?
03:07<@peter1138>well
03:08<@peter1138>who knows eh
03:08<Singaporekid>daemomum
03:10<Pikka>skiddles
03:11<Pikka>have you got the eyelander yet
03:11<Singaporekid>Yes
03:11<Singaporekid>No targe though, and demoman is even more op than before now
03:12<Singaporekid>The equalizer is pretty useful though, but I wish soldiers would stop holding it out while calling for medics
03:12*Terkhen is happy burning W+M1 demomans
03:12<Pikka>I only have the equaliser
03:13<Pikka>not had too many problems with demomons
03:13<Singaporekid>direct hit is the new anti-sentry weapon, too
03:13<Pikka>I'm sure
03:14<Pikka>I played for the first time yesterday, missed out on all the new weapon spam
03:15<Pikka>nice scout nerfs too
03:16<Pikka>nerfs/adjustments
03:16<Singaporekid>There are probably charging demomans everywhere now
03:16<Singaporekid>lol sandman
03:16<Pikka>I haven't seen that many charging demomans
03:16<Pikka>and the reduction in stickies is welcome
03:16<Singaporekid>Did you see the new bots? They're pretty smart
03:16<Pikka>nop
03:17<Terkhen>can you get achievements against bots?
03:17<Singaporekid>The engineers build sentry nests on kothes
03:18<Pikka>oh yeah and I got another non-hat hat.
03:18<Pikka>camera beard D:
03:19<Singaporekid>Apparently the camera beard drops very often now since it's in the misc slot
03:21<Pikka>o
03:21<Pikka>so you can wear it with a hat?
03:21<Pikka>intriguing
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03:21<Pikka>what happens if you craft four camera beards?
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03:33<Singaporekid>http://www.tf2items.com/crafting/blueprints.php
03:37<Pikka>oic
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03:49<@peter1138>pikka pikka
03:49<@peter1138>my towns shrink with tai :(
03:50<Pikka>only if they replace a high-population building with a smaller one?
03:50<Pikka>and they don't /all/ shrink... :o
03:51<Pikka>tai is supposed to keep them small and (relatively) unpredictable... :o
03:51<@peter1138>not all
03:52<@peter1138>some towns get big, then shink
03:52<@peter1138>*SRHINK
03:52<@peter1138>*SHRINK :s
03:52<@peter1138>shame they don't clean up their roads... hehe
03:53<Pikka>:P
03:53<Pikka>well
03:53<Pikka>in that case
03:54<Pikka>it's probably that they build high-population buildings in the centre
03:54<Pikka>so they don't "shrink", they just get more concentrated :P
03:54<@peter1138>nope
03:54<@peter1138>small houses
03:55<@peter1138>actually, looks like original buildings, hmm
03:55<Pikka>how rare
03:55<@peter1138>no scrabble board, anyway
03:55<@peter1138>oh no, they are tai buildings
03:55<Pikka>the highrises and parks have no scrabble board afair
03:56<@peter1138>and they are high population
03:56<@peter1138>just not many of them, so the population has decreased massively
03:57<Pikka>hmm
03:57<Pikka>if the populaton is decreasing a lot, sounds buggy
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04:06<George>Yexo_: no problem. BTW, did you discovered the problem with a howse not being drawn in FS#3495, test5w.grf (the smallest one)?
04:12<George>Yexo: I creted a new task for thet FS#3497
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04:23<Pikka>okay, time to go to dinner, latarz all
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05:11<George>Could devs say about the FS#3477? peter1138 provided the diff, so, that stops it from being included in trunk?
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05:44<Oli``>I've put sample.cat in ~/.openttd but I'm getting "Error: cannot open file 'sample.cat'". What am I doing wrong?
05:45<welshdragon>it needs to be in the /data directory
05:46<welshdragon>(before anybody else says 'red the readme')
05:47<Oli``>aaaaaah!
05:47<Oli``>thank you welshdragon
05:48<welshdragon>no problems Oli``
05:53<murr4y>the text files are pretty awesome
05:53<Oli``>What about music? I've shoved the awe, fm and gm folders in data too and I'm not hearing anything remotely jazzy
05:53<murr4y>i had the cpu problem with sdl and pulseaudio
05:53<murr4y>and just skimmed the known-bugs.txt without any expectations
05:53<murr4y>and what-do-you-know, there was the answer
05:54*Oli`` searches for the docs
05:54*Oli`` needs a doc to find the docs on ubuntu >_<
05:54<murr4y>Oli``: gm folder does *not* go in /data :)
05:54<@peter1138>to be awkward, the gm directory doesn't go in data
05:54<Oli``>How handy!
05:54<murr4y>very intuitive
05:54*roboboy thinks someone should write a patch that makes the submarines under disasters do something other than wander the map
05:54<Oli``>what about fm and awe?
05:55<Oli``>oh yeah now we're rocking!
05:56<roboboy>is there a patch around to disable select disasters?
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06:00<SpComb>are the submarines disasters?
06:00<@peter1138>only gm is used
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06:04<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so apparently it crashes on windows as well :(
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06:08<__ln>a portable crash
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>shows how good wine has got, it even ports the crashes
06:15<roboboy>the wiki classes them as disasters and they dont seem to happen when disasters are turned off
06:17<Tennel>whats the problem with the submarines?
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06:18<roboboy>they do nothing
06:19<Tennel>it's some kind of easteregg
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06:49<Eddi|zuHause>hm... that is weird...
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>apparently the file "data\buildings\PB_C_Warehouse01ConstructionSite.GR2" is damaged
06:50<Eddi|zuHause>which now explains why the missions 1 through 4 worked, there were no chinese people in there
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07:22<__ln>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8447023.stm
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/1/6/822520/-Freak-Current-Takes-Gulf-Stream-to-Greenland
07:28<Oli``>How do I convince a town to let me build an airport?
07:28<ashb>bribe them or build lots of trees
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>Oli``: if you have noise limits enabled, make the town grow or try to build further away from the centre
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>or try a smaller airport
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07:35<Oli``>Hmm they think I'm appalling... Might have been because of the "delicate" landscaping I did to make room for the airport >_<
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>then what ashb said
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08:00<Wizzleby>Trees is probably the easier option considering how expensive a bribe is
08:01<Wizzleby>and has thus far always worked for me when my lanscaping ticked off a town
08:01<Ammler>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionB <-- should openttd support displaying parameters?
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08:05<SpComb>nuke all the trees in the LA area and replant them
08:05<Ammler>he, Action9 has broken skip rest, it does disable the whole grf
08:05<SpComb>usually nets you a mediocre-good :)
08:07<@Rubidium>Ammler: action9 before action8?
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08:16<Ammler>Rubidium: no
08:16<roboboy>whats the setting in the console for Always allow small airports?
08:16<Ammler>Rubidium: #3500
08:17<roboboy>or how do I turn it on using the console?
08:18<Ammler>hmm, I really should learn to check the ticket properities BEFORE hitting submit :-/
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08:22<Coco-Banana-Man>@roboboy: "always_small_airport = true"
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08:24<Coco-Banana-Man>hmm...
08:24<Coco-Banana-Man>what's the difference between always_small_airport and never_expire_airports?
08:26<Ammler>one might be former of the other
08:26<KenjiE20>never expire will keep them all, small just small?
08:26<roboboy>!rcon setting always_small_airport true using ap+ gives me 'always_small_airport' is an unknown setting.
08:26-!-roboboy was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
08:26<Ammler>yes, because that is the old
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08:27<roboboy>Using !rcon setting always_small_airport true using ap+ gives me 'always_small_airport' is an unknown setting.
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08:27<Coco-Banana-Man>then try never_expire_airports...
08:28<roboboy>I think I did
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08:29<roboboy>same response but replacing the new patch string in place of the previous suggestion
08:31<@Rubidium>you're not allowed to change it in network games anyway
08:33<roboboy>not even using rcon?
08:34<Eoin>not at all
08:34<roboboy>hm then ill have to wait for the comuter airport
08:34<@Rubidium>no, it's setting is exported to NewGRFs as such it may not be changed (desyncs and the like)
08:35<roboboy>ok
08:35<roboboy>thats fine
08:35<Ammler>roboboy: it takes around 30 secs to save it locally, change -> upload to server and load again
08:36<roboboy>its not my server but I have rcon acces
08:38*roboboy is sleepy
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08:48*roboboy wishes watch companies gui was fro trunk
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08:49<+glx>roboboy: blame Muxy for not deving against trunk ;)
08:49<roboboy>ok
08:53<@peter1138>heh
08:53<@Rubidium>but... then you can't play on his servers anymore!
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08:55<roboboy>Muxy can you convert Watch Companies Gui to trunk or provide a trunk version please
08:55<roboboy>I was hoping to merge it with IS2.1.1
08:55<Goulp>aha
08:56<Goulp>roboboy: how much you like it ?
08:56<roboboy>I wasnt going to join watch server GUI servers
08:56*Goulp has Muxy inside
08:57<roboboy>I connect 0.7.5 into letting me join servers with watch server gui patch applied
08:57<roboboy>I conned 0.7.5 into letting me join servers with watch server gui patch applied
08:57<roboboy>I like it alot
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09:00<Goulp>roboboy: watch server gui - in non dedicated mode, why not, but watch company gui is to be used on client side regardless of the server
09:01<Goulp>*watch company gui patch of course not server - pfff
09:03<roboboy>I realised that
09:03<roboboy>I want to merge it with trunk and IS2.1.1's patch for trunk
09:06<Goulp>ok, then i will work on it
09:07<roboboy>thanx
09:07<@Belugas>Hello
09:07<roboboy>some of the other people playing on the IS2.1.1 server sayed they think it would work well with IS2.1.1 as well
09:07<roboboy>hello
09:09<Goulp>sure it will
09:09<Goulp>until you have only one client per company.
09:10<Goulp>if you have many, it works also... but it's another story
09:10*roboboy remembers that screensaver patch that made openttd into a windows screensaver
09:12<roboboy>hehe
09:12<roboboy>IS2.1.1 would be nice with it as sometimes you are working in partnership with another company and you may wish to watch your partners company
09:13<roboboy>how can I generate a distributable package using MSVC?
09:14<@Rubidium>see Makefile.msvc
09:15<roboboy>ok
09:17<roboboy>can I get a win32 copy of make?
09:17<roboboy>does MSVC come with it?
09:17<Goulp>should be included into visual studio
09:18<roboboy>ok
09:21<roboboy>hm ill sort that out later
09:24<roboboy>lets see if this compile works
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09:33*roboboy mmight go to bed in an hour or so
09:36-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-162-115.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
09:38*roboboy shall probably go to sleep in an hour or so instead of waiting to hear anything about a release for the patch
09:41<+glx>converting the patch to trunk will take some time (window system is very different)
09:44<Goulp>glx: may be rewrite with new window system will be faster
09:45<roboboy>ok
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09:45<Chris_Booth>any one here know how to write a new AI?
09:45<Chris_Booth>as i want to make my own
09:45<Chris_Booth>and hi to all
09:46<Goulp>roboboy: and i still work hour here
09:47<roboboy>ok
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09:48<Terkhen>Chris_Booth: http://wiki.openttd.org/NoAI_Forum_FAQ
09:48<Chris_Booth>thanks i found that page now
09:49<Chris_Booth>i should have looked in the wiki first thanks Terkhen
09:49*roboboy waits for OpenTTD to compile
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10:21<Coco-Banana-Man>hmm.. NoCAB is strange...
10:21-!-a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd
10:23<Coco-Banana-Man>It has built 5 bus/truck stops in a town with ~800 inhabitants and 5 depots...
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10:34<@peter1138>hmm, i need to go out to my shed
10:34<@peter1138>but i'll ruin the pristine snow ;(
10:36<Timmaexx>I ste NoCab only to use Ships, and it was fine then i opened 12 other nocab companies and OpenTTD lagged ultimate
10:36<Timmaexx>set
10:37<Timmaexx>I know thats silly ;)
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10:40<Coco-Banana-Man>There really needs to be some way to remove outdated links in CargoDist :(
10:45<@Rubidium>peter1138: what about those techniques the army/navy uses to enter/restock ships, i.e. shooting a wire across
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11:09<Bluelight>Does anyone got a good server config file?
11:11<Ammler>Bluelight: what's about default?
11:11<Bluelight>I don't understand.. :p
11:11<Bluelight>Default?
11:12<Goulp>Bluelight: what's a good config ?
11:12<Bluelight>It's the file "openttd.cfg", right?
11:12<Goulp>yes, but what's Good ?
11:13<Ammler>it depense what kind of gameplay you expect
11:13<Bluelight>Well with a welcome message and some commands to bankrupt idle companies and stuff..
11:13<Goulp>welcome message is done by using scripts
11:14<Bluelight>Luukland servers use good config I think.. Like restarting every 6 hours and stuff..
11:14<Bluelight>Scripts? Ok
11:14<Goulp>restarting every 6 hours is made by patch
11:14<Ammler>visit your own server and talk with the players
11:14<Bluelight>Can someone explain scripts to me then?
11:14<Ammler>then you might see, what's good, what's bad
11:14<Goulp>and all time program is externaly stored
11:15<Goulp>script uses console comands
11:15<Ammler>Bluelight: check subdir scripts
11:15<Goulp>*server console commands
11:15<Bluelight>So it's not good for a n00b to do?
11:15<Goulp>its good for a n00b to learn
11:16<Ammler>Bluelight: much more important than the config is mods/admins to be around.
11:16<Goulp>and wiki reading is a good learning
11:17<Goulp>and curiosity is alos requiered
11:17<Bluelight>Hmm.. Ok
11:17<@Rubidium>wiki *writing* is even better for learning
11:17<Bluelight>I'm always curious.. :)
11:17<Goulp>rubidium: Source code reading also
11:17<Bluelight>He he, yeah..
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11:18<Bluelight>Advanced stuff.. I still don't understand what headers do..
11:18<Bluelight>iostream.h
11:18<Goulp>iostream.h useless
11:18<Sacro>#include <iostream>
11:18<Bluelight>He he..
11:18<Goulp>for learing how works OpenTTD
11:18<Sacro>cout < "nooob" < endl;
11:18<Bluelight>He he..
11:19<Tennel><<
11:19<Tennel>cout << "noob" << endl;
11:19<@Rubidium>Sacro: that'll definitely cause compile warnings
11:19<Goulp>Print "Noob" : End
11:19<Xaroth>System.Diagnostics.Debug.WriteLine("noob");
11:20<Bluelight>So I have to dive into scripts.. :(
11:20<Bluelight>What is the wiki url?
11:20<Xaroth>wiki...... openttd.org?
11:20<Goulp>replace 3w by wiki
11:20<Goulp>as shown in the channel title
11:20<Xaroth>and on the public website
11:21<Goulp>on the public website: just clic
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12:49<Bluelight>How do I get companies to bankrupt after someone disconnects from the servewr?
12:50<Bluelight>Aaahhhh!! There are players on my server..
12:50<Bluelight>BRB
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12:53<@Rubidium>reset_company?
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12:54<Ammler>:-)
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13:02<De_Ghosty>can i com level your game?
13:02<De_Ghosty>come*
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13:10<Bluelight>Sure..
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13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18757 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 69 changes by EraserKing
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 11 changes by ReisRyos
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: danish - 11 changes by beruic
13:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18758 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: move Malay to the 'finished' languages
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14:07<sparr>how "broken" would you consider old saves to be if signs displayed in a different location?
14:08*FauxFaux would hope that signs were saved against an integer tile reference.
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: how about you ask a real question?
14:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18759 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [NewGRF]: don't segfault when a newgrf contains an action2 and action3 but no action0
14:16<Yexo>sparr: if signs from old savegames appear at wrong locations please open a bugreport at bugs.openttd.org
14:16<Yexo>if that's no the case, as Eddi|zuHause said ask your real question
14:18<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18760 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (rlots)[FS#3500]: Action 9 did not properly detect whether an Action 8 was encountered already.
14:28<sparr>FauxFaux: they are
14:29-!-Yexo_ [~Yexo@38-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
14:29<sparr>FauxFaux: but the placement of the sign with respect to that tile is different at different zoom levels
14:30<sparr>and which tile a sign is related to is not obviously visible
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14:36<sparr>so I see a lot of signs that are placed such that a </>/v/^ "points" to the intended target
14:36<sparr>which seems like a very clunky solution
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14:46<Eddi|zuHause>sparr: you are speaking in riddles
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14:52<andythenorth>hi
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14:53<Yexo>hello andythenorth
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14:55<Roelmb>can anyone help me with this error i get in Visual c++ 2008 express will compiling openttd src\bridge_gui.cpp(23) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory
14:56<Yexo>yes, try compiling the whole solution instead of only the openttd project
14:56<Yexo>table/string.h is build by the langs project
14:56<Roelmb>so everything that i get from the svn
14:57<Yexo>yes
14:58<Yexo>if you open the solution you'll see 4 projects: "langs", "openttd", "strgen" and "version"
14:59<Roelmb>yea
15:01<Yexo>under "build" in the menu there is both "Build solution" and "build openttd" (or another proejct name if you selected another one
15:01<Yexo>try "Build solution"
15:01<Roelmb>nope still error
15:02<Yexo>can you try and right-click the langs project, then select build
15:02<Yexo>does that work?
15:03<Roelmb>which of the to i have langs_vs80 and langs_vs90
15:03<Yexo>just open the solution in visual studio first
15:03<Yexo>then you should see the project in the solution explorer
15:05-!-roelmb2 [~roelyves@91.181.3.36] has joined #openttd
15:06<roelmb2>got disconnected
15:06<Yexo>just open the solution in visual studio first
15:06<Yexo>then you should see the project in the solution explorer
15:06<Yexo>that where my latest messages
15:07<roelmb2>ok thnx which solution the one i made my self or the ones that are in the openttd directory
15:07<Yexo>you made a solution yourself?
15:07<Yexo>maybe it's better to start over completely
15:07<roelmb2>i think so
15:08<Yexo>just open projects/openttd_vs90.sln
15:08<roelmb2>ok now i have vs90 opened
15:08<Yexo>no .vcproj, but the .sln
15:08<roelmb2>ok
15:09<Yexo>do you see the 4 projects in the solution explorer now?
15:09<roelmb2>yea
15:10<Yexo>then try "Build"->"Build solution" now
15:10<roelmb2>now i get the music error (did i forget to install directx thingy? not that i know)
15:10<Yexo>then your directx install is not correct
15:11<Yexo>did you install openttd-useful btw?
15:11<Yexo>if not that may also be the problem
15:11<roelmb2>usefull ? the files or what
15:11-!-Roelmb [~roelyves@91.181.3.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:11<Yexo>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-useful
15:11<Yexo>you need some header files / libraries to compile openttd
15:11<Yexo>they're packed in a zip (see link above)
15:12<roelmb2>that ones i have where to find the directx so i can reinstall it
15:12<Yexo>there is a link on the openttd wiki
15:13-!-Tennel [~andreas@www.pf0hl.de] has joined #openttd
15:13<roelmb2>found it
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15:16<Tennel>hi, which irc bouncers are you using?
15:19<roelmb2>damn the file from the directx takes 15 min to download XD
15:20<Yexo>only 15? I remember having to wait over an hour for the download to finish
15:20<roelmb2>hehe i download it with wireless normally it goes at lightning speed
15:22<roelmb2>is their a way to get an newer patch to an older version without rewriting half of the code
15:22<@peter1138>hmm
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15:24<Yexo><roelmb2> is their a way to get an newer patch to an older version without rewriting half of the code <- no (and I don't understand why you'd want that)
15:25<roelmb2>because i need to get the patch to a version of cargodist but the version of cargodist is not really compatible with the patch
15:25<roelmb2>and if i change the version of cargodist all my other patches won't work anymore
15:26<Alberth>going back in time will only increase your problems in the future
15:27<roelmb2>i see so the only thing i can do is search for newer patches or rewrite the older ones
15:29<planetmaker>hehe :-)
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15:29<roelmb2>what are you laughing with XD
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15:30<planetmaker>two paths ahead of you: you make a patch pack or you quit compiling ;-)
15:30<Alberth>technically, you can backport a patch to an older version, but the effort is kind of the same as going forward, and eventually you will need to go in that direction anyway (changes tend to have a good reason of being done)
15:31<Alberth>or stop making using patches :)
15:31<planetmaker>Alberth: are you sure you change openttd with a concept and for a reason? >:-)
15:31<roelmb2>I need cargodist for my clan we like playing that but the newest version has some things that should be added
15:32<Alberth>planetmaker: with a concept yes ; for a reason, perhaps :) most changes in openttd are bugfixes though
15:33<planetmaker>he, Alberth, I even read through your oo-window concept before you even started ;-) I added the wrong smiley. ;-) or... however to mark irony
15:34<roelmb2>for example we like to use distant join stations but in cargodist it isn't implented now i tried to put it in and it became doing weird things
15:34<planetmaker>roelmb2: cargodist is not THAT old
15:34<Alberth>every version of openttd has things that should be added, including trunk
15:35<planetmaker>you should hunt for the link to the git repo and clone that
15:35<roelmb2>that i know but it has some weird things in it and also we would like to have the copy paste patch but that one is really old (the ones i found on the board)
15:36<planetmaker>uh... so you take a fossil version of cargodist in order to add c&p?
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15:36<Alberth>planetmaker: you cannot have read my document before I started, I wrote it after writing the first patch :p
15:36<Bluelight>What is engine_renew = false
15:36<Bluelight>Company
15:36<planetmaker>cargodist repo should be up to trunk with maybe a lag of two weeks or so
15:36<roelmb2>i took the newest version of cargodist XD but after a will i took an older one to get some neccesary patches in it
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15:36<planetmaker>Alberth: ok, let's say when you still tried to convince Rubidium that your concept is a good one :-)
15:37<planetmaker>roelmb2: I doubt you did. What is "newest"? (Link)
15:37<planetmaker>roelmb2: you're also aware that you'll have to give the binaries to all your mates, right?
15:38<Yexo>Bluelight: it's to enable/disable autorenew
15:38<Bluelight>I can't close my server.. It will wreck everything for those guys playing there.. lol
15:38<planetmaker>and that they cannot play w/o them
15:38<Bluelight>What is autorenew?
15:38<Yexo>see the wiki
15:38<roelmb2>planetmaker: this is the link to the topic http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992
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15:39<Alberth>Bluelight: you have 300 vehicles, that are all beyond their lifetime, renewing them manually is boring
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15:39<roelmb2>planetmaker: yes i'm aware of that and why shouldn't i put the binaries online
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15:40<planetmaker>only make available the whole bundles.
15:40<Bluelight>ohh
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15:40<Alberth>planetmaker: any progress on the newgrf gui?
15:40<planetmaker>Alberth: unfortunately not. :S
15:40<roelmb2>planetmaker: and what then
15:40<planetmaker>git clone http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/openttd.git <-- you got that version, roelmb2 ?
15:41<roelmb2>no i got the one thats to the trunk
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15:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18761 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_house.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix [FS#3497]: Spritelayouts do not need an Action 1 if only using default sprites.
15:42<planetmaker>roelmb2: the link I gave that IS trunk
15:43<Eddi|zuHause><roelmb2> for example we like to use distant join stations but in cargodist it isn't implented now i tried to put it in and it became doing weird things <-- err... distant join has been included for months...
15:43<planetmaker>with cargodist fit in.
15:43<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I try to tell him for long now ;-)
15:43<roelmb2>it was an example XD
15:43<planetmaker>I guess he's using an antique version dating back to 1943 or so
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>wrong examples do not exactly support your point :p
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>roelmb2: and generally, if you want to port patches to cargodist, you better use the git version
15:44<roelmb2>planetmaker: and with what do i need to get the git
15:44<planetmaker>a point well made, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
15:44<planetmaker>roelmb2: yes, you do
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>roelmb2: of course you need git to get the git
15:45<roelmb2>fine i just downloaded the patch next to the link of the git
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15:52<andythenorth>for Manufacturing Supplies, cargo label MNSP or MASP?
15:53<andythenorth>or MFSP or MGSP?
15:53<FauxFaux>MFSP
15:53<andythenorth>any other votes?
15:53<roelmb2>MFSP
15:54<@Rubidium>use STUF and use it for everything. Makes it all a lot easier
15:54<FauxFaux>Shut the up fuuuuuuuuu?
15:54<andythenorth>Rubidium: nah, it'll conflict with the existing grf that does that
15:55<andythenorth>How about MATT for Matter
15:55<andythenorth>then AMAT for Anti-Matter?
15:55<andythenorth>seems to have most things covered
15:56<@Rubidium>what about " "
15:56<andythenorth>empty space?
15:56<@Rubidium>yeah
15:57<FauxFaux>Oh, haha, you meant "stuff". That totally didn't occur tome.
15:57<andythenorth>oh god the wiki formatting for the cargo labels table is terrifying :o
15:57<andythenorth>I'm actually scared to edit it
15:57<@Rubidium>or... in Haskell 'speak' "____"
15:57<@Rubidium>(don't care)
15:58<andythenorth>how is this in any way better than html: http://paste.openttd.org/220922
15:58*frosch123 would prefer it being mediawiki instead of tikiwiki
15:58<andythenorth>wiki crap
15:58*andythenorth would prefer a proper markup instead of this childish crap
15:59<frosch123>andythenorth: what do you expect from a nfo description :p
15:59<andythenorth>it's only cargo labels...
15:59<andythenorth>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=CargoTypes
16:00*andythenorth stops whining
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16:03<andythenorth>MFSP was nice, but too easily confused with FMSP when coding. I've defined it as MNSP
16:04<frosch123>MSPL :p
16:07<Alberth>SUPL
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>what about MSUP?
16:08<planetmaker>are you sure they're a supremum? ;-)
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's more about feeling than about being sure ;)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>technically, the cargo labels are integers, so it doesn't have to match a letter sequence at all...
16:11<Yexo>true, but as AI author I wouldn't like a cargo label with invalid characters
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>or add some more fun, make them lower case ;)
16:12<frosch123>yeah, use "Eddi"
16:12<@Belugas>ATNL
16:12<@Belugas>Andy The North Lable
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>andy always reminds me of the first doctor who episode: "why do you speak like someone from the north?" - "lots of planets have a north."
16:13<Alberth>frosch123: we already have TOUR
16:15<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: For a given value of first.
16:15<andythenorth>more importantly, why do the 'corrupt sprite' question marks make the game run dog slow / crash ?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: the first one that i have seen
16:16<Prof_Frink>First of the 'new' Who, certainly.
16:16<andythenorth>or are the question marks just an indication that I've broken the grf, and therefore the slowness is some choking nfo...
16:16<andythenorth>?
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: well, obviously.
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17:04<@peter1138>... ... ...
17:04<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/wtf.png
17:04-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:05<Aali>peter1138: whats wrong?
17:05<FauxFaux>Not enough signals.
17:05<@Rubidium>HAHA
17:05<@Rubidium>omflol
17:06<@Rubidium>epicness of epicness
17:06<sawtooth>heh, adding more track to that must be annoying. gotta remove the signals first.
17:06<FauxFaux>I totally don't get it. /o\
17:06*Rubidium wonders how many got the wtf
17:06<Aali>the no signal gap thing atleast isn't hurting the trains
17:07<FauxFaux>Both entry signals to the refinery are one way, but.. =p
17:07<Aali>the broken presignals are
17:07<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/wtf2.png
17:07<@Rubidium>disabled 90 degree turns?
17:07<@peter1138>Rubidium, it seems that, actually, nobody knows how to signal :s
17:08<rane>is there any reason to use path signals on a straight track like that?
17:08<rane>instead of block signals
17:08<Yexo>no
17:08<Aali>rane: yes, it will use slightly more CPU
17:08<frosch123>and you can reverse trains
17:08<rane>alright, might be useful here then
17:08<rane>-20°C
17:09<frosch123>(though why would you want to :p)
17:09<rane>also, path signals look cooler
17:09<@Belugas>hehehe
17:09<@Belugas>ho...
17:09<@Belugas>time to go home!
17:09<@peter1138>you guys need to learn up on signalling if you can't see anything wrong
17:09<@Belugas>bye!!
17:09<sawtooth>also easier than switching the signal type
17:09<@peter1138>Belugas, enjoy
17:09<@Belugas>will, will peter!
17:09*Belugas is gone
17:10<andythenorth>be gone
17:10<andythenorth>with you
17:10<andythenorth>good night :)
17:10<rane>I can see many weird things but I don't have enough experience to say for sure what's *wtf*
17:11<Aali>everything is wtf, really
17:11<Yexo>night Belugas
17:11<andythenorth>well one wtf is how boring it must be to place that many signals on diagonal track
17:11<Aali>not one single signal is optimally placed
17:11<Yexo>andythenorth: drag-drop signals with signal distance 1
17:11<Yexo>not boring at all
17:11<sawtooth>peter1138: and the path signals clearly are not in safe waiting places
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17:12<@peter1138>aww, they gave up and left
17:12<@peter1138>wonder how long until there's bug reports that signals don't work ;p
17:12<andythenorth>since when did signal drag and drop work on n-s track? Seems I know nothing about signals either
17:12<sawtooth>hmm...that is a nice looking font in that interface peter1138
17:13<Aali>andythenorth: ctrl-click and drag one square
17:13<sawtooth>at least better than whatever my openttd is using
17:13<Aali>boom, whole track filled
17:13<@peter1138>Liberation Sans, Bold 16
17:16<andythenorth>randomly found this while testing something else: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/kind_of_cute.png
17:17<Yexo>nice :)
17:17<Yexo>andythenorth: is that a single industry with multiple tilelayouts?
17:17<andythenorth>yes
17:18<Yexo>hmm
17:18<andythenorth>well, no
17:18<andythenorth>it's four industries
17:18<andythenorth>do you mean 'industry id' or 'instance on the map' :)
17:18<Yexo>industry id
17:18<rane>what kind of industry is that?
17:18<andythenorth>it's one industry id
17:18<Yexo>ok
17:18<andythenorth>rane: fishing harbour
17:18<andythenorth>Yexo: should it feature a dock?
17:18<Yexo>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Newgrf_Airports_Documentation#Action_0_Airports <- prop 14/15 I added yesterday
17:18<Xaroth>looks quite nice
17:19<Xaroth>what it do?
17:19<andythenorth>supplies fish
17:19<rane>is that downloadable? I haven't seen much decent looking NewGRF so far
17:19<rane>that looks nice indeed
17:19<Yexo>I think I should find a way to have a different arrivel tile per tilelayout
17:19<Yexo>or maybe it needs a callback for it
17:20<andythenorth>rane, it's in FIRS which is in development. There is a nightly, but I don't recommend it this week, it's going through birthing pains ;)
17:20<Yexo>but that only brings me to the next problem that it'd be an airport callback and an airport callback can't access the industry information
17:20<andythenorth>unless you like contributing to newgrf development by testing
17:20<rane>does
17:20<rane>does it contain other industries besides that?
17:21<@peter1138>Yexo, parent scope?
17:21<andythenorth>rane http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607
17:21<@peter1138>(although that's probably already taken)
17:21<Yexo>peter1138: parent scope for airports is the closest town
17:21<frosch123>yeah, we need a third scope for both
17:21<frosch123>airport->industry, and industry/industrytile->airport
17:22<@peter1138>either third scope, or just add industry properties to airport varactions
17:22<@peter1138>(bit messy mind you)
17:22<frosch123>peter1138: industry variables and station variables conflict
17:22<frosch123>esp. 80+ stuiff :p
17:22<@peter1138>hmm, true, i was thinking it was new stuff for both. weird
17:23<Yexo>oh, parent scope for airports is currently the vehicle (if any)
17:23<andythenorth>Yexo: so the current method of providing a special tile in the industry layout would be deprecated?
17:23<Yexo>andythenorth: most likely yes
17:23<andythenorth>ok
17:23<Yexo>that is, "if it's up to me yes"
17:23<andythenorth>currently the 18h tile magic is a bit crap anyway
17:23<frosch123>so you found a way around needing stationtiles, or is there one hidden somewhere?
17:24<@peter1138>add more scopes, if that's possible
17:24<Yexo>I don't need station tiles
17:24<Yexo>ships don't need station tiles, just a station and a destination tile
17:24<Yexo>and the destination tile should be plain water,so that was easy to implement
17:24<Yexo>planes did need station tiles, but that was only a single assert that needed changing
17:25<frosch123>what happens if a ship is in the statemachine and you turn the entrytile into land? :p
17:25<Yexo>well currently ships can't enter the statemachine :)
17:25<Yexo>haven't implemented that part yet
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17:25<Yexo>but that's a good point
17:25<Yexo>on the other hand the entrytile is not necesarily the exit tile
17:26<Yexo>so it might be valid
17:26<frosch123>hmm, multiple entry/exit tiles are complicated, as not every entrytile might be connected to sea.
17:26<Yexo>my current idea was to limit it to a single entry tile
17:26<frosch123>and enforcing ships to only use the same tile for exit as for entering is weird
17:26<Yexo>exit tiles are defined by the statemachine, so multiple exit tiles are no problem
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17:27<Yexo>but if not all exit tiles are connected that could be a problem
17:27<frosch123>Yexo: well, not for the statemachine, but for the player :p
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17:27<sparrL>the decreasing payments for slow cargo delivery is a factor not sufficiently conveyed by the available graphs. i wish the new graphs patch was current, instead of hundreds of revisions old
17:27<Yexo>yes :)
17:28<frosch123>so, maybe the singletile thingie is good enough for a start :)
17:28<sparrL>I knew that time was a factor, but I never realised that total profit could actually go DOWN for making longer deliveries
17:28<sparrL>yay for the wiki :)
17:28<frosch123>you would also get a stationtile again if you protect it from terraforming by placing a oilrigstationtile there :p
17:29<Yexo>hehe :)
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17:29<frosch123>hmm, btw., doesn't ais need stationtiles?
17:30<Yexo>perhaps, haven't thought much about that yet
17:30<andythenorth>if you prevent ships from using the state machine....
17:31<andythenorth>....I won't have to code the bloody state machine for them :P
17:31<andythenorth>:D
17:31<Yexo>andythenorth: if you just have an arrival tile where the ships can stop and load/unload (like the existing dock) the statemachine is very easy
17:31<andythenorth>exactly...
17:31<frosch123>andythenorth: just confess yexo to use a default statemachine if none is supplied
17:31<andythenorth>anyway, I don't know enough about this aspect so I'll shutup
17:32<Yexo>andythenorth: it's be as simple as a single varaction2 (not a varaction2 chain, a single sprite)
17:33<andythenorth>ok
17:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18762 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: unduplicate sprite layout drawing between industries and houses
17:42<frosch123>hmm, some boring day i will start a poll about "unduplicate" vs. "undupify" vs. "deduplicate" :p
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17:46<asilv>only one google hit for undupify :)
17:46<asilv>but 2 more soon I guess
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17:51<frosch123>http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1141760 <- :)
17:55<frosch123>unduplication < unduplicate < deduplicate < deduplicated < unduplicated < deduplication
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18:00*frosch123 should better go to sleep
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18:05<SpComb>peter1138: stop playing online
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18:18<andythenorth>when cargo is distributed from station to neighbouring industry, could it use round-robin, not nearest neighbour?
18:28<@Rubidium>could yes, but that's more expensive to calculate
18:28<@Rubidium>because then it also happens for houses
18:28<@Rubidium>hmm, no not for houses, that's only the other way around
18:29<@Rubidium>although it should share passengers with houses then :)
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18:42<__ln>interesting situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqnt_OEpHF8 (no nudity)
18:43<Chrill>no nudity? aww
18:44<Chrill>There we go, channel contribution of the day
18:56<sawtooth>Chrill: at least my day is now complete
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20:53<De_Ghosty>http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/beau_lotto_optical_illusions_show_how_we_see.html
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22:30<Hyppy>on a few sites, I see reference to "ICE-#" trains. Which NewGRF are these in?
22:32-!-fjb [~frank@84.133.177.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:35<roboboy>The DBXL set
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22:56<Hyppy>ugh I feel like such an idiot. Built up a full SBahn map, worked out all the kinks in the mainlines, sidelines, and loops, and had a full set of trains running. Little did I realize that the default trainset was far too limited for a full SBahn game :-( Oh, well. Time to start anew, I guess
23:06<roboboy>are the OpenGFX grf's newgrfs?
23:07<roboboy>or are they plain grfs that mimic the originals?
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23:25<sparrL>i think they are the latter, but I am uninformed
23:25<sparrL>Hyppy: SBahn?
23:26*roboboy ponders tring to trick TTDPatch into using OpenGFX
23:26<roboboy>ill have to rename the files and whatnot
23:28<sparrL>I am going to have to install TTD and TTDPatch just so I can check out the differences
23:28<sparrL>it's been the better part of a decade since I've touched TTD
23:29-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:acfa:43be:c471:e272] has quit [Quit: bye]
23:30-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:30<roboboy>well TTDPatch has CargoDest built in
23:31<roboboy>you may want to look at installing TTDPC but then TTDPatch's config is commented unlike OpenTTD's which is ment to be edited in the game
23:31*roboboy installs tortoisegit
23:32-!-KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@oops.i.forgot.to.set.my.hostmask.kingj.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:33<roboboy>ive now got TortoiseSVN/HG/Git on this machine
23:35-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd
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23:55<De_Ghosty>anyone familiar with how to impiment voice control with arm chip
23:55<De_Ghosty>or i it even possible?
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 09 00:00:30 2010