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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-15

---Logopened Fri Jan 15 00:00:08 2010
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03:12<D4rth>good morning from a german school!
03:13<ss23>D4rth: Is it true that most Dutch people know German?
03:14<D4rth>most people that live near the frontier
03:15<ss23>Sweet :)
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03:15*planetmaker wonders whether there's a place in the Netherlands which is not "near the border" ;-)
03:16<ss23>lol
03:16<Yexo>all dutch learn german at high school
03:17<ss23>Ah I see
03:17<ss23>And English too right?
03:17<Yexo>yes, and french
03:18<roboboy>hello
03:23<__ln>but not swedish?!
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03:25<@peter1138>swedish doesn't exist
03:26<Forked>there is no Sweden.
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03:31<planetmaker>must be right next to Bielefeld
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03:47*andythenorth wonders if the map 'knows' what type of ground tile should be under an industry tile
03:48<andythenorth>and the answer must be 'yes' or tile variable 41 wouldn't work
03:48*andythenorth wonders if there's a way to specify industry tile action 2 ground sprite value, so it just uses underlying terrain tile
03:49<andythenorth>otherwise there's a *lot* of duplication coming up :o
03:50*andythenorth posts a forum question about it
03:50<andythenorth>and then it's time for work :)
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03:57<Terkhen>good morning
04:03<andythenorth>morning
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04:11<Yexo>* andythenorth wonders if the map 'knows' what type of ground tile should be under an industry tile <- actually the answer is no
04:12<Yexo>tile var 41 can be computed: if in artic and tile height above snowline -> snow, if in desert then desert/rainforest is stored, else normal
04:12<planetmaker>Yexo, ? But every industry can query the tile, can't it?
04:12<planetmaker>like you said
04:14<@peter1138>buh, fscking 'dynamic contrast' :d
04:18<planetmaker>hm... interesting :-) Seems expensive to always calculate the tile info...
04:22<andythenorth>could the ground type be stored in the tile (and snow computed)?
04:23<@peter1138>what do mean by groundtype?
04:29<planetmaker>what h/we need is the ground sprite which would be drawn without the industry present
04:29<planetmaker>independent of the climate. E.g. normal grass in temperate, the arctic grass in arctic and desert or rain forrest in tropical climate
04:30<planetmaker>andythenorth, snow can be computed by the tile height and the snow line. Var 81(?) of the industry tiles
04:30<planetmaker>iirc
04:31<planetmaker>but you know _that_ ;-)
04:31<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=46791&p=848775#p848775
04:31<Yexo>yes, it's possible
04:32<Yexo>I've done the same for airports (but those always draw the normal ground sprite first)
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04:33<@peter1138>you want a special value for ground sprite that would cause ottd to draw the 'default' ground sprite for the ground type
04:34<andythenorth>yes
04:34<andythenorth>pony?
04:34<Akkernight>Hello. I'm trying to SVN the repository and I'm guessing that trunk is the main development branch or what it's called. But I looked at the README in trunk and it says version 1.0 something, while the game release is 0.7.1, this confused me, so which 'branch' is the most updated, and the one I should look at and perhaps work out from?
04:34<Yexo>trunk
04:35<Yexo>and the latest stable is 0.7.5, not 0.7.1
04:37<Yexo>see http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_OpenTTD_versions for how the version scheme works
04:38<Akkernight>Yexo, oh. Ubuntu has 0.7.1 in it's Ubuntu Software Center, or maybe I don't know how to use it well enough? I'm more used to Arch than Ubuntu :P
04:38<planetmaker>Ubuntu is just not up2date
04:38<Yexo>Akkernight: that's because ubuntu doesn't have the latest stable yet,not because there isn't a newer one
04:38<@peter1138>planetmaker, "up to date", please
04:39<Yexo>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable there you can find the latest stable
04:39<planetmaker>:-) point
04:40<Akkernight>Just so I know, will my save go if I update without using the Software Center?
04:40<Yexo>savegames should stay
04:45<Yexo>is it possible to replace a tile from an original industry with industry tiles prop 09 (industry tile override) without replacing/copying the industry?
04:46<andythenorth>Yexo: I haven't tried. I would try, but I have to go work! If you stick it in the forum, I could try for you later
04:47<Yexo>don't worry, if you don't know I could try it myself
04:47<Yexo>but it isn't worth the trouble of creating a newgrf when someone here knows it already
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04:59<Yexo>andythenorth: attached a simple patch your topic
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05:10<Akkernight>oh yeah, before I download the repo, is it coded in C++?
05:10<Yexo>yes
05:11<Yexo>well, mostly C compiled as C++
05:17<Akkernight>WARNING: liblzo2 was not detected or disabled
05:17<Akkernight>WARNING: OpenTTD doesn't require liblzo2, but it does mean that
05:17<Akkernight>WARNING: loading old savegames/scenarios will be disabled.
05:18<Akkernight>does this mean I won't be able to load any of my savegames?
05:18<Yexo>I think "old savegames" in this case are ttd/tto savegames
05:18<Yexo>but I'm not 100% sure
05:19<Akkernight>oh well, found them in apt-cache now :P
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05:22<Akkernight>hmm... I have no idea what to code, so I'll just look at the bug tracker :P
05:39<@Rubidium>Yexo: also savegames from before 0.3.0
05:41*roboboy presumes thats when the new savegame format came in?
05:42<roboboy>would a nightly savegame from before then at the right time still load
05:44<@Rubidium>there were (probably) no nightlies back then
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05:50<Akkernight>0.7.5 needs libicu38, but apt-cache only has libicu40, can I use the newer version?
05:52<@Rubidium>nope
05:53<@Rubidium>unless you compile yourself
05:53<dihedral>"apt-cache only has libicu40" <- lol
05:54<dihedral>wich version of which linux distribution are you using Akkernight ?
05:54<@Rubidium>ubuntu 9.10 :)
05:54<DaZ>2.6.32 :f
05:54<DaZ>aw,
05:55*DaZ didn't read the distribution part >:
05:55<Akkernight>yeah, ubuntu 9.10
05:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18805 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move airport_movement.h to table/
05:56<@Rubidium>dihedral: you can deduce ubuntu (or derivate) 9.10 from libicu40
05:57<dihedral>i was just going to check if 38 was available in some other apt source
05:57<dihedral>but it's not
06:01<@Rubidium>dihedral: it's in debian lenny, ubuntu 8.10, ubuntu 9.04
06:02<dihedral>yeah - thought if it might be in something like kermic-backports or something else mentioned in the default sources.lst
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06:04<Noldo>kermit-backports
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06:56<Akkernight>what should I look for in the source to find the code for the GUI ?
06:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18806 /trunk/src/table/railtypes.h: -Codechange: Typo in comment
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06:57<@Rubidium>files ending with _gui.*?
06:57<__ln>if a typo fix in comment is a codechange, then what's not?
06:57*roboboy ponders trying to read the source with his severely limited C++ knowledge
06:57<Akkernight>Rubidium, yeah I guessed so :P anyways, I was just hoping someone could point me in the right direction ;)
06:58<Yexo>Akkernight: then you have to be more specific, what kind of code are you looking for?
06:58<Yexo>definitions of the various windows, code that draws buttons, etc?
06:59<Akkernight>Yexo, In the game, all the GUI with the planes and ships
06:59<Yexo>so the vehicle windows? try vehicle_gui.h/cpp
07:00<Yexo>maybe depot_gui.cpp/station_gui.cpp
07:00<@peter1138>__ln, the commit hook enforces an xxxx: tag from a certain list
07:00<@peter1138>__ln, inevitably, i cannot be arsed finding out what is valid in that list
07:01<Yexo>-Doc is also valid
07:01<Yexo>not reallymore applicable in this case though
07:01<@Rubidium>it's ofcourse -Fix: :)
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>well, it does change a code file :p
07:01<Akkernight>no, the main GUI, like there's Pause, Fast Forward, Settings, Floppy Disk
07:01<Yexo>try main_gui.cpp
07:01<SpComb>-DocFix
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>-DocWho?
07:02<Yexo>http://wiki.openttd.org/Commit_style has a list
07:05<Akkernight>main_gui.h doesn't exist, but there is window_gui.h although I think it's more about all gui, not the actual game gui I talked about?
07:06<@peter1138>you mean the viewport
07:07<Akkernight>aha!
07:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18807 /trunk/ (16 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: introduce AirportSpec and move several non-statemachine-related variables to there
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07:16<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=46791 <-- Yexo wouldn't maybe using land shape flags (prop. 0D), bit 6 make sense, too?
07:16<planetmaker>Maybe even more?
07:16<planetmaker>It would keep the "special flags" count down :-)
07:16<Akkernight>ok, where is the entry point? main.cpp wasn't found :P
07:16<Yexo>openttd.cpp
07:17<planetmaker>Akkernight, you should learn to use grep :-)
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>Akkernight: you seriously should learn the magic of grep
07:17<Yexo>planetmaker: prop 0D is "This property defines which slopes the tile can be built on.", which has nothing to do with drawing the tile
07:17<Akkernight>grep?
07:17<planetmaker>well... yes
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>Akkernight: type "man grep"
07:19<roboboy>hm it would be nice if NewGRFs could display certain new text strings on the new vehicle offer window
07:19<roboboy>eg weather they are a passenger or freight loco
07:19<planetmaker>roboboy, they can.
07:19<SpComb>roboboy: why not just accept every offer and see in the depot window?
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: in the buy window, not in the offer
07:19<planetmaker>oh, :-)
07:20<roboboy>because if you do not test they will not give you another one for 2 years
07:20<planetmaker>SpComb, your chance to get further offers drops significantly, if you don't use the offered engine after you accepted to test it
07:22<planetmaker>Yexo, besides I very much like the idea. Actually I would also like it for houses just the same
07:22<planetmaker>though... let me look whether it doesn't even work now already for houses :-)
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i should reorganise my working copies...
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>"OpenTTD[123xy]" doesn't really cut it anymore ;=)
07:25<planetmaker>?
07:26<planetmaker>hm... I *think* the ground tile thing is missing for houses, too
07:27<roboboy>bleh the original pathfinder is annoying
07:27<planetmaker>though... it has something there... in the action2 chain for houses
07:28<planetmaker>Houses would allow it, if I did an extensive chain and checked the terrain type.
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: i thought the original pathfinder was removed?
07:28<Yexo>planetmaker: so the same for industries?
07:28<roboboy>im not playing OTTD at the moment
07:28<roboboy>im playing TTDP
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>then OUT OF HERE!!! :p
07:29<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action2HousesIndustryTiles <-- Yexo
07:29<roboboy>its too quiet in there channel though
07:29<planetmaker>the name actually implies that it works for industries already, too
07:29<roboboy>hehe
07:30<planetmaker>that particular action2 could be modified by an action6 in order to show the proper spriteID as ground tile
07:30<Yexo>planetmaker: yes, but that was andythenorth's problem, it works,but it requires duplicating that action2 for every climate you want to support
07:30<planetmaker>so... I guess it's already feasable already. But... with quite a bit detour
07:31<planetmaker>Yexo, yeah
07:31<Yexo>action6 only works at startup right? that doesn't with variable snowline or desert/rainforest
07:32<planetmaker>not entirely sure.
07:32<Eddi|zuHause>hm, apparently i have 21 working copies...
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07:33<Eddi|zuHause>which is weird, because i have no idea why i have a cpp branch ceckout at all...
07:34<planetmaker>museum of stone age versions maybe?
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>here goes the noai checkout...
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>i guess i don't need 0.3.5 and 0.5.2 either...
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07:43<roboboy>hello Muxy
07:43<Goulp>hello roboboy
07:44<Goulp>watch company for trunk is in progress
07:46<roboboy>goodie
07:46<roboboy>thanx
07:47<Goulp>i made the window with new widget system.
07:47<roboboy>does anyone know if the win32 version of patch is broken?
07:48<roboboy>I remember hearing something about it being broken
07:48<Yexo>it doesn't accept unix newlines
07:48<roboboy>ok
07:48<Yexo>but afaik both the cygwin and mingw version work ok
07:49<roboboy>I can easily change the unix newlines with a script easily or I should be able tp beforehand
07:50<roboboy>I can not seem to get tortoise merge to merge multiple patches thats why I was asking
07:51<Yexo>why not? what error do you get?
07:52<roboboy>it doesn't even show the list of files to be patched when I try to apply the second patch
07:53<Yexo>second patch is probably a git or mercurial patch
07:53<Yexo>tortoisesvn doesn't support those patches
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07:54<roboboy>I tried two SVN patches if I remember
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07:55*roboboy updates his copy of trunk
07:55<Yexo>and did you also try to apply them the other way around? second patch first? Does that give the same problem?
07:55<roboboy>I think I did
07:56<roboboy>ill try two patches once my copy of trunk is updated and ill post my results with screenshots on the forums
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08:10<roboboy>hm it seems to be the automated timetables patch doesnt like tortoise merge
08:10<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: how much disk space where those?
08:10<SpComb>I've started running out of lv-space after I started bouncing openttd working copies + compiles around :)
08:11<Yexo>roboboy: indeed, that patch is made with git
08:11<Yexo><Yexo> second patch is probably a git or mercurial patch <Yexo> tortoisesvn doesn't support those patches
08:11<roboboy>but the patch says it is agains trunk SVN?
08:11<Yexo>yes
08:12<Yexo>it's indeed a patch against trunk
08:12<planetmaker>roboboy, it's against a trunk version. It doesn't talk about the patch format ;-)
08:12<Yexo>the svn in the filename is misleading
08:12<roboboy>ok even though it says SVN in its filename. Ill have to be more careful
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: somehow it seems to vary betwen 50 and 400MB each
08:13<planetmaker>roboboy, point is, if one doesn't use tortoise* but a patch programme on other OS, one doesn't need to care at all
08:13<roboboy>and tortoiseGit wont merge Git with SVN
08:14<roboboy>I see
08:15<Yexo>but a patch programme on other OS <- but a decent patch program on any OS
08:15<planetmaker>:-)
08:15<roboboy>except native on wn32
08:16*roboboy goes to get win32 patch
08:16<Yexo>cygwin's patch works fine
08:16<planetmaker>I guess Yexo uses a native one there...
08:16<Yexo>and the one I got with msys works fine too
08:16<roboboy>ok
08:16<Yexo>http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/patch.htm <- that one does not, at least last time I tried
08:17<roboboy>do I need cygwin/msys to run there versions?
08:17<Yexo>for most (all?) cygwin program you need cygwin1.dll
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08:18<roboboy>how about the MSYS version?
08:18<Yexo>it's actually part of mingw
08:18<roboboy>ok
08:18<Yexo>and I have no idea
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08:28<roboboy>would openttd compile under msvc 6?
08:29<Yexo>probably not
08:29<roboboy>ive heard its verry borked
08:29<@Rubidium>Yexo: s/probably //
08:30<Yexo>ok
08:30*roboboy notes that there is no project for it though
08:32<@Rubidium>0.5.0 didn't compile with MSVC6
08:32<@Rubidium>0.6.0 didn't compile with MSVC2003
08:33<@Belugas>hello
08:34<planetmaker>moin Belugas
08:35<@Belugas>moni to you too, planetmaker
08:35<roboboy>evin Belugas
08:36<planetmaker>is there some local variant of "salut" or "hi" or alike around your place, Belugas ?
08:38<@Belugas>salut is used indeed :)
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08:47<@Belugas>when the boss comes in, it's "bonjour messieurs" of cours
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09:56<Fuchs82>could someone please help me with installing the gfx and sfx?
09:59<@Rubidium>what os and what version of OpenTTD?
09:59<Fuchs82>1.0.0 beta 2 on winXP
10:00<Fuchs82>german
10:00<@Rubidium>use the installer and select OpenGFX and OpenSFX for downloading
10:01<Fuchs82>i copied the gfx and sfx to the my documents folder but the game does not find a sound set. i also made a dumy sample.cat
10:01<Fuchs82>ok, will try that, thanks
10:02<@Rubidium>what do you mean with the "my documents folder"?
10:02<Fuchs82>as written in the readme:Windows: C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\My Documents\OpenTTD
10:03<@Rubidium>and the files are in the 'data' directory under that folder?
10:03<Fuchs82>nope
10:03<Fuchs82>didn't know that :-P
10:03<@Rubidium>that's also written in the readme somewhere
10:04<Fuchs82>kk, I see :)
10:04<@Rubidium>although the dummy sound file trick from OpenGFX's manual doesn't work anymore
10:05<Elessar>Is OpenTTD's data directory not on Application\ Data ?
10:06<Fuchs82>no, not on my system
10:06<Fuchs82>and it works now, thanks!! keep up the good work, I enjoy the game :-))
10:06<Elessar>(neither on mine, as I do not use Windowses :-) )
10:06<Ammler>you see, there are people reading the readme :-)
10:07<Elessar>So does OpenTTD really put its data on the user's home directory, under Windows?
10:07<roboboy>it could do with an update for Vista/7
10:07<Fuchs82>it creates a OpenTTD folder in the home dir
10:07<roboboy>yes
10:07<Ammler>Elessar: like it does on linux or like most other games do, too
10:08<roboboy>actually My Documents as technically ones homedir is their usernames folder?
10:08<planetmaker>Rubidium: it triggers now a fatal error?
10:08<Elessar>Ammler: Yes, but on Unices, such directories are hidden.
10:09<@Rubidium>Elessar: it's way easier to refer to a directory that isn't hidden by default; primarily because the people having the trouble are the people not having directory hiding turned off
10:09*Ammler does symlink .openttd to openttd
10:09<Elessar>And on Unices, this is the common practice, whereas on Windows, the practice is to put data and configuration in Application\ Data, not on My\ Documents.
10:09<@Rubidium>planetmaker: likely does
10:10<planetmaker>hm... then it's time to adjust the readme :-)
10:10<planetmaker>does nosound come with OpenTTD by default or does it need downloading?
10:11<@Rubidium>planetmaker: separate download
10:11<planetmaker>ok
10:11<planetmaker>thx
10:11<Ammler>planetmaker: the same discussion was once about sample.cat some time ago
10:11<Ammler>foobar made a fs post about
10:11<@Rubidium>Elessar: it wasn't such common practice when the code was written
10:12<@Rubidium>also having all files in the same directory is easier for support than having them spread around the system
10:12*Elessar cannot remember that time.
10:12<Elessar>Anyway, it is not a concern to me, in fact.
10:13<roboboy>technically only savegames and scenarios would go in Documents\OpenTTD
10:13<@Rubidium>but feel free to rewrite it so it puts the files where you think they should go while supporting the current practice
10:13<Ammler>all windows games I play have the user data in mydocs too
10:14<planetmaker>putting them in the users home dir data path is IMO a good pracise. No admin priviliges required to update etc pp
10:14<Ammler>roboboy: newgrfs can also be "user" data
10:15<planetmaker>in other words: current paths seem quite reasonable to me
10:15<roboboy>i'd put cfg and grfs and langs and other stuff under \data in Appdata\roaming
10:15<planetmaker>but do you have write priviliges there when you're NOT admin?
10:16<@Rubidium>I would put the languages with the binary...
10:16<roboboy>id even put savegames under username\Saved Games\OpenTTD
10:16<@Rubidium>roboboy: where is that on e.g. windows 98?
10:17<roboboy>but then you would need to know if you were on vista or newer
10:17<@Rubidium>I'm already annoyed by MS changing the path to the home directory every release
10:17<roboboy>Rubidium: I was getting to that
10:18<Goulp>"My Documents\openttd" is more easily reachable than ApplicationData\Openttd
10:18<roboboy>they provide api's to get it automatically
10:18<Goulp>even if ApplicationData belong to the profile dir
10:18<@Rubidium>roboboy: yes-ish, but they don't work for e.g. win9x
10:18<Ammler>doesn't windows use something like a env var %HOME%?
10:18<roboboy>thats right
10:18<roboboy>non reliable
10:18<@Rubidium>Ammler: ofcourse... but that var is useless
10:19<planetmaker>indeed
10:19<Goulp>GetHomeDirectory( ) ?
10:19<roboboy>nope
10:23<roboboy>theres a generic function to get the path to any special folder, eg documents music appdata
10:23<roboboy>in the win32 api
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10:24<roboboy>I thinlk it relies on a specific version of IE
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... designing a title game is kinda boring without newgrfs...
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>might as well keep the old one...
10:25<roboboy>ive read about 9x workarounds whilst I was working out how to get this info using VB6
10:27<Ammler>why isn't it possible to add the river boarders to the openttd.grf?
10:27<planetmaker>hm, my forum's foe list has again a single entry
10:28<Ammler>noeb?
10:28<planetmaker>sad that it doesn't work for "new postings". Yes
10:28<planetmaker>1 rubber point to Ammer ;-)
10:28<Ammler>well, the foe list is useless
10:29<Ammler>the thread will be marked as updated also with that
10:29<@Rubidium>Ammler: because it's an action 0123 thing?
10:29<planetmaker>but he's verbal diarrhea ;-)
10:29<@Rubidium>and because we don't have the graphics yet
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Falkenhaven%20Transport,%2022.%20Jun%202000.png <- how's that for an early draft?
10:30<planetmaker>hm, do rivers / channels support action 1/2/3 ?
10:31-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
10:31*roboboy likes
10:34<Ammler>planetmaker: the issue is, they need action0123
10:34<planetmaker>ok, then I understood it right :-)
10:35<Ammler>maybe opengfx should better split that "extra" things from the real openttd.grf replacement?
10:37-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd
10:38<planetmaker>hm?
10:38<planetmaker>A base set may only have one additional file.
10:39<planetmaker>and action 2/3 won't be in the extra one
10:42<Ammler>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/entry/sprites/ogfxe_extra.pnfo#L4790
10:43<Ammler>it is already ;-)
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10:45<planetmaker>hm, indeed
10:46<planetmaker>not the best of choices
10:46<roboboy>would it be possible to convince TTD to load OpenGFX if you renamed it?
10:47<Yexo>didn't someone try that with ttdpatch?
10:48<planetmaker>roboboy: yes and no
10:48<planetmaker>you'll have some missing GUI sprites afaik
10:48<planetmaker>but in principle it works
10:49<Ammler>roboboy: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=44560
10:50<Ammler>wow, 40 downloads, maybe we should make a update :-)
10:52-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
10:52<Ammler>planetmaker: we don't replace the basegrf file of the patch, so there shouldn't be any missing things, but maybe some inconsistency
10:53<Ammler>(we don't replace ttdp specific sprites)
10:53<planetmaker>the ttdp branch is your domain ;-)
10:53<roboboy>I only copyd one of them and it works
10:53<planetmaker>or rather built
10:54<Ammler>no, it is noones
10:54<planetmaker>hehe
10:54<roboboy>id like it
10:54<roboboy>whats in the extra grf?
10:54<planetmaker>the point is it needs renaming the files to the original names. That's what we don't really fancy
10:54<planetmaker>the extra newgrf adds extra features. You can load it as static
10:55<roboboy>ok
10:55<planetmaker>like more climate specific things than original
10:55<Ammler>yes, you need to add the extra grf like other newgrfs
10:55<planetmaker>or better (more) shore sprites
10:55<roboboy>does OpenGFX cover openttd.grf?
10:55<Ammler>and extend
10:55-!-Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd
10:55<planetmaker>roboboy: yes
10:56<planetmaker>openttd.grf is basically part of the TTD grfs.
10:56<planetmaker>or of the original base set
10:56-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8233a3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: brb]
10:56<Ammler>(file _extra that is)
10:56-!-Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9A31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:56*roboboy wonders whats in ttdpbasew.grf thats not in openttd.grf
10:57<planetmaker>though, of course, it's the part which OpenTTD adds so that the TTD grfs work
10:57<roboboy>I would think not much
10:57<planetmaker>roboboy: some GUI sprites for sure
10:57*Coco-Banana-Man wonders, what the maximum number of towns on an OpenTTD game is...
10:57<planetmaker>there are differences.
10:57<roboboy>yeah
10:58<Yexo>Coco-Banana-Man: as many as fit on a map
10:58<@Rubidium>many thousands
10:58<Coco-Banana-Man>so there isn't a "specific" limit?
10:58<Yexo>maximum is 64000, but you'll never be able to fit that many towns on one map
10:58<Coco-Banana-Man>ok, thanks :)
10:58<Ammler>the name generator (newgrf) could limit it
10:59<Yexo>you could always use custom names in that case
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11:15<Ammler>hmm, evil frosch reverted my wiki update :'-(
11:15<Ammler>without any comment
11:19-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:19<@Belugas>i THINK he must have a pretty good reason for it ;)
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11:27<planetmaker>hehe
11:27<@Rubidium>wiki update? where?
11:27<planetmaker>leaving no comment is hard to justify, though ;-)
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11:35<@Belugas>bah... sometimes, it's better to not leave a comment...
11:36<@Belugas>Ammler, what was hat page?
11:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18808 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Cleanup: deplicate by using an existing function
11:37<Ammler>Belugas: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=BaseCosts
11:38<Ammler>it is a bit strange history, maybe it wasn't him
11:38<Ammler>I tried to make the table like the vehicle list
11:38<@Belugas>note to self: Belugas is not a protocole, http is... don't paste the whole line and press enter... yu dumb brain
11:39<Goulp>Belugas: right clic on the link and Open in a browser ? (and happy new year)
11:40<@peter1138>ah, you added a pointless decimal number
11:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18809 /trunk/src/ (295 files in 20 dirs): -Codechange/Cleanup: remove unneeded headers from some files, if a header require a header make it include that header
11:41<planetmaker>hehe @ Belugas ;-)
11:45<Ammler>peter1138: you think that was the reason, forsch reverted?
11:47<Ammler>I thought it is easier to add it there, then copy the table to a new page.
11:49<@peter1138>why add it at all?
11:50<Ammler>(my basecosts.grf needs it)
11:51<Ammler>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=46720
11:51-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@206.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
11:53<planetmaker>hello Terkhen, rising star on the supplied-patch-for-<whatever> sky ;-)
11:53<Terkhen>hello :P
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11:57<Ammler>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VehicleIDs <-- has also both types
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12:26<Mks>!tunnels 6 16
12:26<planetmaker>o_O
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm... "Current value for 'economy.town_noise_population' is: '800' (min: (0) 0, max: 0" <-- anyone else get that?
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>i can't change it from the console...
12:29<Yexo>it's a string setting, not an integer
12:30<Yexo>default value is "800,2000,4000"
12:30<Yexo>oh,maybe it is a list of integers, not a string
12:31<Ammler>how to set that with console?
12:31<Yexo>I'm trying to find that out now
12:34<Yexo>it's currently not possible
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12:37<Ammler>Yexo: would it hurt, if someone sets a value something else than those three?
12:37<Yexo>nope
12:37<Yexo>it has something to do with the airport noise levels, but I'm not surehow it works exactly
12:38<Ammler>hmm, "someone" could try what happens, if you configure it with the cfg
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>it's the population-per-noiselevel-per-difficulty
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>for the permissive/whatever/blah town tolerance
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>on permissive, the noise level is 3+n*800
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>3+n*800+distance/12 or so...
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>3+population/800+distance/12 or so...
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>something like this :p
12:42<Ammler>quite complicated, isn't?
12:42-!-heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd
12:43<Ammler>are there other settings, which depend on other settings?
12:46<Alberth>the days/percentages of the vehicle servicing
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12:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r18810 /trunk/src/sdl.h: -Fix (r18809): broken win32 compilation with SDL
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: shall i open a bug report about not being able to change the setting?
13:03<Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: feel free, but I've tried to make it possible and it's very hard
13:03<Yexo>so don't count on it being implemented soon
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: especially if it's not fixed soon, it should be a bug report, as otherwise it will just be forgotten...
13:10<Yexo>true :)
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13:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18811 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: -Fix (r18803): also swap the parameters for the AI API
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18812 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make some functions in train.h functions of Train.
13:25<@Rubidium>that should cut some of the trivial stuff from Terkhen's patch :)
13:25<Yexo>in other words: break the patch again ;)
13:26<@Rubidium>Terkhen: when you update the patch, also fix the whitespace issues in train.h; in some places you use 4 spaces instead of tab
13:27-!-kasuga [~osaka@81.28.174.239] has joined #openttd
13:27<Terkhen>thanks, I will :)
13:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18813 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h newgrf_gui.cpp): -Codechange: deduplicate copying a newgrf config
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18814 /trunk/src/lang/ (polish.txt romanian.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: polish - 5 changes by amateja
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changes by kkmic
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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13:59<Terkhen>see you later
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14:13<wysiwtf>i see commits
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i should save a standard "please use PNG instead of JPG" reply somewhere...
14:19<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: why? Just block/ignore all *.jpg files :)
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not all .jpg files are actually called .jpg
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>some are called attachment.php?blah
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>funny... the EU parliament has "naked body scanners" for sale that were secretly bought 8 years ago and never used
14:23<@Rubidium>let me guess, they work as well as the new ones
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>there was a funny show recently on ZDF, where they tested one of these scanners
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>and the guy (a physicist) explained:
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>"what you see here on the picture is my cell phone and a swiss army knife"
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>"what you don't see on this picture is this package of thermite, an ignitor in my teeth, ..."
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>"... and a lighter"
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14:26<@Rubidium>yeah, but the battery in your cell phone is more dangerous, and the army knife... how dare you
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>and he was like "the ban on liquids is totally useless, there are two kinds of liquid explosives that are both useless for terrorists"
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>"but you can get this thermite for a few cents in every pharmacy"
14:28<planetmaker>it's all about perceived security. Not about actual
14:28<@Rubidium>but it's not about what's useful for the terrorists, it's what seems useful against terrorists by the stupid public
14:28<planetmaker>like 4 years back, I was working for two weeks at Köln-Bonn airport.
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>i hope this discussion dies in the next 3 months...
14:28<planetmaker>We applied for security cards and all shit in advance.
14:28<fjb>And what is expensive to sell.
14:29<@Rubidium>and terrorists are *really* winning the last 10 years with all those insane extra rules that don't work
14:29<planetmaker>When we arrived with a big VW 8-seat bus and a trailer just as big... we could just pass the gate to the airport (runways and all) without much.
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, of course...
14:30<fjb>A clipboard gets you everywhere.
14:30<@Rubidium>want to totally derail the airport? Just skip under the lines of security and presto... whole airport is derailed
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>if you want to cause trouble, pose as an airport worker, not as a passenger
14:31<planetmaker>CCC showed that the access cards are copied wireless for less then 200€ for a number of German airports
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't there a funny scene somewhere where a guy went backwards through the security gate and nobody could figure out how he got in in the first place?
14:32<frosch123>andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=848866#p848866 <- enlighten me :)
14:33<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: there was at least one where someone wanted to give her friend a final goodbye kiss when he had already passed security
14:33<@Rubidium>everyone had to go through security again after the whole airport was cleared
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14:35<andythenorth>frosch123: so sprite 3981 will always get me a plain land tile?
14:35<andythenorth>(or I could go check...)
14:36<frosch123>if that is the flat grass tile, then yes, it is the same spritenumber for different looking grass of the climates
14:37<andythenorth>oops :o
14:37<andythenorth>I therefore owe various apologies
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14:41<frosch123>hmm, one issue though. yexo's patch allows easy dealing with differently sloped land
14:41<frosch123>but that is only useful for grass-only tiles
14:41-!-fjb [~frank@p5485B146.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:41<Yexo>also for grass tiles with a very small building on it
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14:42<andythenorth>frosch123: my sandpit is now terrain aware :)
14:42<andythenorth>however it does look kind of sucky in tropic
14:42<frosch123>:p
14:43<fjb>Make the sand orange in tropic. :-)
14:43<planetmaker>meh :-P
14:45<andythenorth>it's not the sand I'm bother about, it's the square-edged green tiles
14:45<andythenorth>I'll screenie
14:46<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/sand_pit.png
14:46<andythenorth>looks bad, but was quick and easy, and doesn't mean getting a patch into trunk :)
14:47<fjb>I've seen badder things.
14:48<Yexo>use var 41 and ifit returns 1 or 4 use 4550 as groundsprite
14:48<Yexo>only one varaction2 more
14:48<planetmaker>what is 4550?
14:49<Yexo>snow/desert
14:49<planetmaker>ah
14:49<andythenorth>Yexo: it's not a bad route. there are 28 tiles, so 28 varaction 2's more. But I have to check for snow anyway, so they'll probably be needed.
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14:50<planetmaker>andythenorth: but not desert as in the screeny :-)
14:50<frosch123>you could just forbd the industry in desert :p
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>"don't get sand out of the desert!"
14:50<andythenorth>frosch123: meh, it would solve the orange sand problem, but we want to keep FIRS very open
14:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that was the original plan - almost in those very words. But it's just simpler this way....
14:52<andythenorth>and even if sand is mined easily in the desert, it still has to be dug out and put in truck somewhere right?
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think the orange sand is a problem... just say "the yellow sand hasn't been exposed to light that long" :p
14:52-!-ecke [~ecke@211.143.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke]
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>80% of the desert isn't sand anyway...
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>but rather rock
14:53<andythenorth>rocks and stuff?
14:55<andythenorth>so this solves my problem, but does it make Yexo's patch useless?
14:57<planetmaker>hm... the purpose was ground tile, was it?
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>the behaviour should probably be unified between airports, houses and industries
14:59<andythenorth>I find it unintuitive that I have to specify a ground tile. I keep defining them as 0, then being surprised by drawing artefacts :o
14:59<andythenorth>however it's easily fixed
14:59<andythenorth>don't define as 0...
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that is solved by having a sensible default?
15:02<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: newgrfs are nowhere unified. Many "features" have the same property. But they have a different numerical value everywhere.
15:02<planetmaker>Sometimes even a different variable type (byte vs. word vs. dword)
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's exactly the problem...
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but one step at a time...
15:03<planetmaker>I agree :-)
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: make a list of unifications and propose those for grf version 8 ;)
15:04<andythenorth>quick question: is there a magic key combo to make the info tool show me the action 2 id of a tile?
15:04<planetmaker>hehe. Re-defining all properties :-P
15:04<Yexo>main problem is to keep backwards compatible with old newgrfs
15:04<planetmaker>I'd have to look how the grf versions may change / what they can change
15:04<Yexo>andythenorth: you can try setting the grf debug level higher
15:05<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I should anyway do that list, I guess.
15:05<planetmaker>Would also help my makefiles ;-)
15:06-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:07*andythenorth prepares once again to venture into the murky world of the text stack
15:08<planetmaker>still all strings used up?
15:08<andythenorth>planetmaker: no, I want to show the industry layout number in the industry window (for debug)
15:08*andythenorth decides the text stack can wait
15:08<planetmaker>ah, I see :-)
15:09<andythenorth>debugging tiles on complex industries is a right pain in the arse
15:09<andythenorth>I am going to have to draw out and label every layout on graph paper
15:09<frosch123>[21:04] <planetmaker> Sometimes even a different variable type (byte vs. word vs. dword) <- signed vs. unsigned is more fun :p
15:09<planetmaker>oh yes :-) I believe so. Scan it and add it to the source ;-)
15:09<andythenorth>*and* neob still didn't answer my question. How rude.
15:10<planetmaker>heha @ frosch123 also very nice
15:10<frosch123>[21:05] <planetmaker> hehe. Re-defining all properties :-P <- http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/vartranstable.txt :p
15:11<andythenorth>that would be quite useful in combination with planetmaker's make file system
15:11<andythenorth>redefine everything once, commit, add to header....
15:11<andythenorth>....grf authors then go insane due to wiki being wrong :)
15:12<frosch123>but i agree, for industries that can be build on differently sloped land some special behaviour could be useful, but afaik there is no such industry yet
15:12<planetmaker> !!! translation table for vars! Sounds insane. Maybe is. But interesting at least, too :-)
15:12<Yexo>ecs forest? or can that only be build on specific sloped land?
15:13*frosch123 cannot remember haveing ever seen ecs forest
15:13<Yexo>could be another set then
15:13<Yexo>but I thought there was a forest in one set that could be build on slopes
15:14<frosch123>some forest was build on foundations :p
15:14-!-Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has joined #openttd
15:15<frosch123>lol, someone broke the newgrf gui
15:15<Yexo>oh, yes
15:15<Yexo>broken in what way? could be me then in r18813
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, ECS forests were sloped, and PBI forests were sometimes on foundations (except during world generation?)
15:16<frosch123>i wanted to add one grf (filter was active) and it seems to have added all 100 grfs following that one
15:16<andythenorth>PBI forest builds on foundations on slopes
15:16<Yexo>oops
15:17<andythenorth>I tried recently building sheep farm on slopes, but had to revert, there are some...complications I hadn't thought of
15:17<frosch123>never added so many grfs with one click :p
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>comes close to the "add all" button that so many people want :p
15:17<@peter1138>eh
15:18<planetmaker>let's hope you're as fast to remove them (not using a pre-set ;-) )
15:18<frosch123>planetmaker: ok, then i use quitting ottd to remove any number above 59 or so
15:19<planetmaker>:-)
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it's faster when you started with -x ;)
15:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18815 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18813): adding a single newgrf via the newgrf gui added all newgrfs after the selected one too
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>(that's what prevented saving the cfg, right?)
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>btw... what happened to the "replace NewGRF with same ID" patch?
15:22<Yexo>broken nigthly today :(
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: happens way too rarely :p
15:22<@Rubidium>broken nightlies are good :)
15:23<Yexo>it shows how many people actually report bugs
15:23<planetmaker>didn't someone state recently that they don't work anyway? ;-) so why bother :-P
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: sometimes prejudices must be served? :p
15:25<frosch123>Yexo: you were right, ecs forest is build on slope (without foundations)
15:25<planetmaker>of course, Eddi! :-)
15:25<frosch123>but the trees also follow the slope, which would look silly if the flat positions would be used
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>PBI forests could use that feature...
15:27<frosch123>"Should be plant at the end of spring only" <- that is ECS :)
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>forests with foundations look silly
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: "realistic" would be "should give first wood after 30-60 years" :p
15:28<planetmaker>for pines that's quite a long time already.
15:29<frosch123>hmm, why is funding forests disabled
15:29<frosch123>how can you actually do that :o
15:29<Yexo>frosch123: was just taking a look at http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/StaticGRFInfo.txt
15:29<Yexo>is there already a function to read a string until the next 00 byte?
15:29<frosch123>that is the way all grf strings are encoded
15:29<frosch123>so look at action4 :)
15:30<frosch123>or 8
15:30<Yexo>ah, i got it
15:30<Yexo>thought len was the length of the stirng,but it's only a maximum
15:31<frosch123>hmm, do you mean the length of the sprite? then it is kind of eof/eol
15:32<Yexo>no,the max_len parameter to ttd_load_string
15:32<Yexo>but i understand it now
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>that looks like a buffer overflow protection to me...
15:35<Yexo>it is
15:35<frosch123>[21:29] <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "realistic" would be "should give first wood after 30-60 years" :p <- user construction / prospection is not allowed at all
15:36*andythenorth is worried I am storing up a tile offset mistake hell
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>i have learned to avoid ECS, too complex/overloaded
15:36<andythenorth>my offsets *seem* to work, but maybe there are hideous clipping errors. what a lot of tiles I will have to fix if this is true :o
15:38-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>i have also learned to avoid most house sets, because i absolutely hate the dominance green houses both in TTRS and the swedish houses...
15:39<@peter1138>none of those in tai
15:39<@peter1138>unless you count the green scrabble tiles
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't tried TaI yet
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't expect MB to release a house set any time soon...
15:40<andythenorth>I can't think of any house set acronyms, so no houses from me
15:40<andythenorth>I like what Irwe is doing with swedish houses though
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>make towns look like http://www.jugend-freizeithotel.de/uploads/pics/Eisenach_01.jpg or http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Panorama_Quedlinburg1.jpg/600px-Panorama_Quedlinburg1.jpg
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>house walls should be wite to brown-ish and roofs should mostly be red to black
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>only some rare buildings have copper roofs, which turn green
15:45-!-KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-63-154.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>what's kinda missing in openttd is landmark buildings, that give each city a unique look
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>and limiting the spread of highrises...
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>like one skyscraper every 20.000 inhabitants...
15:46<frosch123>andythenorth: i think you seriously need some pony shed :p
15:47<planetmaker>lool
15:47<andythenorth>frosch123: you saw I'd updated my pony topic?
15:47<andythenorth>:o
15:47<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i guess it is rather like 5 skyscrapers in the city
15:47<Tera>any clue are the recent stability issues in the trunk fixed yet?
15:47<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, i opened it as yexo mentioned it earlier and i could not remember whether i had read all
15:48<@Rubidium>Tera: stability issues like?
15:48<Tera>crashes
15:49<Yexo>what os /version are you using?
15:49<Tera>hmm.. nope. Not fixed yet :)
15:49<Tera>Arch Linux
15:49<andythenorth>frosch123: I added a few more. They are mostly nothing that hasn't been discussed / suggested before :)
15:49<Yexo>compiling yourself or downloading a precompiled binary?
15:49<@Rubidium>haven't seen any trunk crashes lately on the tracker
15:49<Tera>loading a save game which perfectly worked with few days old compile crashes 100% sure on the latest trunk.
15:49<Yexo>Tera: is there an easy way to reproduce the crash?
15:49<Tera>Yexo: compiling from SVN
15:50<Yexo>latest trunk = r18815 I hope? r18813/r18814 might crash indeed
15:50<Tera>Yexo: I can re-produce it everytime I load my save game with pretty large and complex railroad system
15:50<Yexo>in that case please open a bugreport at bugs.openttd.org and attach the savegame
15:50<Tera>tried with 18815 few mins ago. still crashes.
15:51<Tera>my last working build is r18761
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>Tera: do you have older savegames of the same game which don't crash?
15:51<Tera>Eddi|zuHause: no I don't, but I can also trick a crash with a new game, after sometime of normal gameplay.
15:51<Yexo>again: please report at bugs.openttd.org how to trick the crash
15:52<@peter1138>airports
15:52<thingwath>Well, my trunk seems to crash if there is an airport, in the savegame :)
15:52<@peter1138> [08] /lib/libc.so.6(__assert_fail+0xe9) [0x7fbf6bf32dc9]
15:52<@peter1138> [09] bin/openttd(_ZN11AirportSpec3GetEh+0x2b) [0x5e8111]
15:52<@peter1138> [10] bin/openttd(_ZNK7Station14GetAirportSpecEv+0x38) [0x5e815c]
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>so... who screwed with airports today? :p
15:52<Tera>Yexo: gotcha. I do that as soon as the conversation calms down :)
15:52<thingwath> Message: Assertion failed at line 66 of /home/thingie/stuff/openttd/src/airport.h: type < NUM_AIRPORTS
15:52<thingwath>:)
15:52<Yexo>airports or an oilrig?
15:53<Tera>peter1138: My savegame has airports, but new games have crashed just with a few trains only. So clearly it's not the only way to trick the crash.
15:53<Yexo>Tera: is there an oilrig in your game?
15:53<Tera>yes
15:53<Yexo>that's probably the issue
15:54<Tera>so it's a known issue then?
15:54<Yexo>only now
15:54<thingwath>oilrig triggers that
15:54<thingwath>I tried to build one in a game without it, and it crashed when it was about to get the heliport...
15:55<Tera>in that case, if it's a known issue I guess you don't need me to flood your bugtrack
15:55<Yexo>well i just learned about the issue because of you :)
15:55<Yexo>but for this a bugreport is nolonger needed
15:56<@peter1138>but if you had reported the bug originally...
15:56<Yexo>bug was introduced in r18807
15:57<Tera>18809 was first build I tried. I decided to hold off and wait a bit if someone was in the middle of sending patches to the trunk.
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>we should retract Yexo's commit rights, he broke the same nightly two different ways :p
15:57<planetmaker>:-P
15:57<Yexo>hehe :p
15:57<Tera>:>
15:58<Yexo>at least I got a fix for both problems within a few minutes of it being reported :)
15:58<sawtooth>nah, yexo is just testing us
15:58*planetmaker hugs Yexo
15:58<Tera>Yexo: so that is, I can update to 18816 in any minutes now? ;)
15:58<planetmaker>you'll be notified here, tera
15:58<planetmaker>Just wait for the commit message to show
15:58<Tera>I know. I was just teasing Yexo.
16:00<Yexo>Tera: there you go :)
16:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18816 /trunk/src/ (airport.cpp airport.h): -Fix (r18807): getting the catchment area of oilrigs triggered an assert
16:01<Tera>pulling
16:01<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: better breaking the nightly than a release :)
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: you mean like 0.4.6? :)
16:02<Tera>Yexo: Confirmed. It's a fix. Savegame is happy now as well.
16:02<Yexo>good :)
16:02<Yexo>if you find any more problems please do report them
16:03<Tera>heh.. frankly speaking this is the first *obvious* bug I've ever had with OpenTTD
16:03<frosch123>[21:58] <Eddi|zuHause> we should retract Yexo's commit rights, he broke the same nightly two different ways :p <- yup, that is highly ineffective. he could have saved the other for a different nightly
16:03<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: 0.7.4?
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i haven't followed that...
16:04<Yexo>Tera: oh, there have been quite a few over time, but generally the 'obvious' bugs get fixed fast
16:04<Tera>Yexo: just been lucky then :)
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>depends if the symptom is obvious, or the solution is obvious ;)
16:05-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@2002:4e33:328c:1:4b0:6f63:75fd:915a] has joined #openttd
16:08-!-arachnist [arachnist@insomniac.pl] has joined #openttd
16:08<arachnist>hi
16:09<frosch123>hello spiderman
16:09-!-sawtooth [~anthony@74-46-200-187.dr01.wyng.mn.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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16:11<arachnist>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3533 <| you can hit weird bugs when bored ;)
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>arachnist: it's a feature.
16:12<arachnist>Eddi|zuHause: really?
16:12<ajmiles>i remember trying to see how many train engines I could get on one loop of rail once when bored
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16:12<Eddi|zuHause>arachnist: yes, really
16:12-!-Splex [~splex@n219078152189.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>arachnist: it's already a feature since TTO
16:12<Tera>arachnist: that's like.. old
16:13<frosch123>arachnist: considering the newspaper you could post it into the ottd comedy thread
16:13<ajmiles>http://aj.uwcs.co.uk/9trains.JPG
16:14<ajmiles>pretty sure getting 10 in there is impossible
16:14<@Rubidium>arachnist: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/tip/src/train_cmd.cpp#l3200
16:14-!-Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:14<arachnist>ajmiles: lol
16:15<ajmiles>got to time pressing the Start button just right :)
16:15<ajmiles>and hope you've got breakdowns off
16:18-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
16:26<Eddi|zuHause># I put my hands around your neck
16:26<Eddi|zuHause># you wrap your arms around me
16:27<Luukland>You dont speak my Dialect?
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>Luukland: you mean "funny german"? :p
16:33<Yexo>I think the code can now parse the format defined in http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/StaticGRFInfo.txt
16:33<Yexo>now a test grf and some code to actually use the parsed data
16:33-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8233a3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
16:33<frosch123>:o
16:36<Yexo>oh, same id with different language
16:37<Alberth>more people seem to have sleepless nights :)
16:38<Tera>oh, that's because OpenTTD is around
16:38*Tera blames Canada
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>night? where?
16:39<@Belugas>what?
16:40<Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=847286#p847286
16:40<@Rubidium>sleepless nights? What's that concept?
16:41<@Belugas>it's called overtime
16:43<@Belugas>which i'm not yet in
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>i can wrap my mind around sleepless, but what is this "night" concept you speak of?
16:44<@Rubidium>it's that time of the day not a lot people speak and if they speak they generally leave within a few minutes after asking what they were about to ask
16:45<@Rubidium>(or asking whether they may ask what they were about to ask)
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>that's all the time on irc...
16:46<Alberth>irc is used all over the world
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>so you say every time i join irc it is night?
16:46<Alberth>I suppose so
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>so why don't they call the night irc instead?
16:48<Alberth>since when is there logic in human languages?
16:48<Yexo>because you might as well call the morning irc
16:48<Alberth>that would be confusing, wouldn't it
16:48<__ln>http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/01/15/lg_ebook_reader/
16:49<Luukland>Some random spamlink
16:49<__ln>where?
16:49<Luukland>night irc = too long, you forgot about the KISS principle
16:49<Alberth>I don't think OpenTTD runs on that
16:49<__ln>yet
16:49<Alberth>we'd need black and white sprites
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>__ln: so when can we expect your port to be finished?
16:50<sawtooth>we've got black and white for the newspapers...
16:50<__ln>tuesday of 2011
16:51<Luukland>the first or last tuesday?
16:51<@Belugas>my newspapers are in color. The sudoku part is in white and black, tough
16:51<Alberth>sawtooth: right, that should be easy
16:52<sawtooth>company colors might get a bit confusing though
16:52<sawtooth>i'm gray! me too!
16:52<Alberth>just play a single player game :)
16:53*andythenorth goes to battle with text stack again
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>sawtooth: not more confusing than enabling custom company colours for all companies
16:56<Luukland>I remember some game where the max companies was 15+, but some had the same colors
16:57<Luukland>does anyone know the name of this game/patch?
16:59*andythenorth has his ass handed to him by the text stack
17:00-!-Sevalecan [Sevalecan@64.119.61.194] has joined #openttd
17:00<Sevalecan>\o/
17:01<@Rubidium>andythenorth: the text stack is fun!
17:01<andythenorth>umm
17:01<andythenorth>no
17:01<andythenorth>I didn't document my existing code, which was dumb
17:01<@Rubidium>andythenorth: and all those people that say that the code explains itself :)
17:02<Sevalecan>you know, the bug report thing said to make sure I have the latest stable or the trunk.. does that mean they don't want bug reports for the latest testing? :P
17:02*andythenorth checks if nfo looks *anything* like python.....nope
17:02<Luukland>wwopenTTDgd, found it, now I must find the binary for it :S
17:03<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: in general we want bug reports for testing too, although the betas are just glorified nightlies (read: trunk versions)
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17:03<Alberth>good irc
17:04<frosch123>night albert
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17:04<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: progress w.r.t. bug fixing the betas goes pretty fast, so it's quite likely that it's already fixed in the more recent nightlies.
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Luukland: which part of wwottdgd are you talking about?
17:05<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: and that brings me to: what's the bug actually? Something with CanPlantTreeOnTile?
17:05<Luukland>Hmmm, I am wrong here Eddi, I thought that they had a max company hack
17:05<Luukland>yet they only had the max client patch
17:05<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: and what bug report thing are you speaking about?
17:05<Sevalecan>nah, just after a while of the game running (like 10-15 minutes or so, I didn't count) sound starts being accompanied by static
17:05<Luukland>so that brings me back to square 1
17:06<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: what OS?
17:06<Luukland>Sevalecan? are u on a laptop?
17:06<Sevalecan>and I asked because it didn't mention testing versions under "what to do when you find a bug" here: http://www.openttd.org/en/development
17:06<Sevalecan>gentoo linux x86
17:06<Sevalecan>no I'm not on a laptop
17:06<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: using pulseaudio?
17:07<Sevalecan>heh
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>Luukland: the company/client maximum has been increased since then
17:07<Sevalecan>no, I loathe pulseaudio ;)
17:07<Luukland>Well, try to unplug the power cord
17:07<Sevalecan>it wasn't doing this in 0.7.5
17:07<Luukland>Its an issue with laptops that the static from the battery can interfere with audio
17:07<Luukland>You just have a crappy laptop then :P
17:07<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: allegro or sdl?
17:07<Luukland>Eddi, yeah I see
17:08<Sevalecan>Rubidium: does it choose one by default if they are both found?
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>Luukland: and increasing it furhter is extremely unlikely, and probably very difficult
17:08<Luukland>I know the matter Eddi, I know it is difficult, but for everything there is a solution
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>Sevalecan: default should be sdl, but the config can override that
17:09<Sevalecan>I didn't pass any option to override when running ./configure
17:09<Sevalecan>but ./configure tells me it's passing -DWITH_SDL and -DWITH_ALLEGRO and linking to both.
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>Sevalecan: check "openttd -h" and openttd.cfg
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17:10<@Rubidium>anyhow, try with -s sdl / -s allegro to figure out which of the two causes the problem
17:10<Ammler>oh frosch123 is around, did you revert decimal ID column I added to the BaseCosts wiki?
17:11<frosch123>no, is it gone?
17:11<Ammler>the history is a bit silly
17:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18817 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html: [Website] -Change: also mention testing releases for reporting bugs
17:12<frosch123>euh, broken tiki :p
17:12<Sevalecan>heh, ok
17:12*Belugas is gone . night night
17:12*andythenorth runs away from text stack. something for another day.
17:12<andythenorth>real nfo coders don't need debug info anyway
17:12<@Rubidium>night Belugas, happy weekend
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17:13<Luukland>hi hi Gforce
17:13<Luukland>Experiencing some problems?
17:13<Ammler>frosch123: I added a decimal columns like http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VehicleIDs but now it is again an old version on top, I don't see who edited
17:13<Gforce>hi luuk
17:13<Gforce>een beetje veel problemen
17:13<Ammler>but then I try again, maybe it was just a mistake of someone
17:13<Gforce>kan op geen 1 spel connectiemaken
17:13<Luukland>Aye aye, English channel here
17:13<Luukland>so please :)
17:13<Gforce>ok right
17:14<Gforce>no connection on all servers
17:14<Luukland>Yeah, I noticed
17:14<Luukland>nothing I can do
17:14<Gforce>fugas sleeping? :)
17:14<Gforce>don't u have remote control?
17:14<Luukland>Fugas = Getting drunk
17:14<Luukland>And I have no remote unfortuanitly
17:15<Gforce>ok that's cheep in tjechie
17:15<Gforce>shame
17:15<Luukland>Yeah, better try again tomorrow
17:15<Luukland>and go and have some cheap fun now :)
17:15<Gforce>or later tonight :)
17:15<Gforce>u still playing?
17:15<Luukland>Nope, I am going for some sleep I think
17:16<Luukland>nothing more I can do
17:16<Gforce>that's true
17:16<Gforce>or play on another server :>)
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17:16<Luukland>Ex's is a nice server to play on :)
17:16<Gforce>yeah i did try it
17:17<Gforce>a nice one is strategy board
17:17<Luukland>Yeah, contacted the admin there, never got a responce :p
17:17<Gforce>only one hard game but a lovely site
17:17<Gforce>i think its dutch to but am not sure
17:18<Gforce>http://www.strategyboard.net/desktop#news
17:18<Luukland>this site drove me nuts :P
17:19<Gforce>yeah the window thinghy
17:19<Gforce>thats a shame but nice online stats
17:19<Luukland>Yeap
17:19<Gforce>also who's playing
17:20<Gforce>maybe something for u to implement
17:20<Luukland>Yeah, we are working on the buddylist, so you can see if your friend plays where ;)
17:20<Luukland>(friend/friends)
17:20<Gforce>as i told u no friends only vage kennissen
17:20<Gforce>:0
17:21<Luukland>You should get some more friends then
17:21<Luukland>anyhow, if you have more questions, use the server channel, I am going for some rest
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17:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18818 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp engine_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3526] (r18766): some train acceleration type conversions were missed
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17:29<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18819 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change [FS#3493]: be consistent with airport naming
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17:49<Sevalecan>well
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17:49<Sevalecan>with -s sdl it acted up after 12-13 minutes or so, I've had it running longer with allegro and no problems
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember a similar report a few months ago, not sure if they are related...
17:52<@Rubidium>wasn't that with pulse?
17:55<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: does increasing (by a factor 2, possibly factor 4) of the value spec.samples in src/sdl_s.cpp help?
17:57<DaleStan>Ammler: The revert of VehicleIDs was done at a level no mere user can achieve. My current guess is that a backup was restored.
17:58<Sevalecan>I'll check
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17:59<gforce> /j #goulp
17:59<gforce>#goulp
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18:00<Sevalecan>You are now in #goulp, the topic is 'T$#&YWJU^W$KIJ%EEEE'
18:00<Sevalecan>set on Oct 46 1998
18:01<Sevalecan>oh, he's gone.
18:01<fjb>:-)
18:03<planetmaker>Luukland: good luck finding the binaries :-P
18:03<planetmaker>oh... I'm 1h behind :-P
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18:32<Sevalecan>Rubidium: seems that multiplying spec.samples by 2 stops the static from occuring (it usually would have happened by this point)
18:36<@Rubidium>now the only question is whether making that value higher makes the lag of the sounds annoying
18:36<Yexo>z`http://paste.openttd.org/220967 -> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/staticgrfinfo.png :)
18:37<Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/staticgrfinfo.diff ugly code
18:38<Sevalecan>I'm not perceiving any lag of sound from that, though when I tried allegro earlier I thought I noticed some then.
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18:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18820 /trunk/src/sound/sdl_s.cpp: -Codechange: [SDL] make the number of samples runtime configurable and increase the default slightly
18:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18821 /trunk/src/sound/allegro_s.cpp: -Codechange: [Allegro] make the frequency and number of samples runtime configurable
18:47<@Rubidium>Sevalecan: trunk should now behave slightly better
18:48*Sevalecan grabs it and tries it out \o/
18:49<sawtooth>i would sometimes get a bit of static so I'll test that some time tomorrow
18:49<Sevalecan>what do you expect with a name like that?
18:49<Sevalecan></bad joke>
18:49<sawtooth>heh
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>:)
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>after translating it to german, i actually get the joke :p
18:51<@peter1138>a totally different joke, no doubt
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18:54<Eddi|zuHause>"sawtooth" as in the shape of an oscillation curve, vs. "static noise"?
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>dang... i should not have enabled the bios setting "shut down hard drives after 10 minutes"
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>it scares the hell out of me!
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19:08<Rexxars>man
19:08<Rexxars>first of all, I'm drunk, sorry
19:08<Rexxars>anywho.. I work as a consultant, and was recently hired by this company in our nations capital
19:09<Sevalecan>this is a fascinating story.
19:09<Rexxars>so I came to this place, and after a while I got talking with some of the people who work there.. turns out like 50% of these people have played openttd
19:09<Rexxars>how awesome is that?
19:09<Rexxars>I've got an ottd game lined up this wednesday, couldnt be more excited tbh
19:09<Rexxars>high five anyone? o/
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19:10<Sevalecan>\o
19:10<Rexxars>awesomesauce
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>is there spam in that?
19:11<Rexxars>hpow is that spam?
19:12<@Rubidium>so 50% of drunk people have played OpenTTD?
19:12<@Rubidium>then the drunk people issue is highly overrated :)
19:13<Rexxars>no, that wasnt the point... these people are not drunk
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>so you know more people that played openttd than are drunk?
19:13<Rexxars>right now?
19:13<Rexxars>probably
19:14<SmatZ>hehe
19:14<Rexxars>wait, no
19:15<Rexxars>ah fuck it, this is going nowehere... I was making a point that it was awesome how many people play ottd these days ^^
19:15<SmatZ>no? it's friday evening!
19:15<SmatZ>:o)
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>friday is feed the trolls day?
19:16<@Rubidium>but... it's saturday...
19:16<@Rubidium>or at least, that's what screen's telling me
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19:17<SmatZ>right, though... it still belongs to friday, it will be saturday when I wake up on saturday :-p
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19:17<SmatZ>last time I woke up was friday
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>i think the concept of "midnight" as end of day has faded during the last century
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19:22<Eddi|zuHause>starting with the widespread introduction of electric light, culminating in worldwide realtime communication
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21:03<Eddi|zuHause>guru3 is having problems, apparently...
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21:16<fjb>Not enough meditation?
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23:06<Sevalecan>hmmm... my trains don't appear to go into depots for maintenance during their extremely long trek?
23:06<Sevalecan>is it because there are depot orders in the queue(they refit at each end)? :P
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23:47<Sacro>Sevalecan: yes
23:49<Sevalecan>is there a way to get it to maintain as needed without sending it to a "nearest" or specific depot right after a stop even so?
23:51<Sacro>Not sure I'm afraid
23:51<Sacro>i'm trired
23:51<Sacro>*tired
23:51<Sevalecan>oh well
23:51*Sacro sleeps
23:51<Sevalecan>night
---Logclosed Sat Jan 16 00:00:11 2010