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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-16

---Logopened Sat Jan 16 00:00:11 2010
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04:15<Terkhen>good morning
04:17<Sevalecan>good afternight
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04:27<@Rubidium>it's morning already?
04:28<andythenorth>sleepless night?
04:29<@Rubidium>no, just bad that I need to go to the shops to get something to eat next few days
04:29<@Rubidium>especially when my bed is at such a nice temperature
04:33<@peter1138>hmm, i wonder where i can find XP professional media...
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04:40<HackaLittleBit>good moaning
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04:42<HackaLittleBit>rubidium: signal.cpp is complaining, you took out #include "company_base.h" on line 472
04:43<HackaLittleBit> assert(Company::IsValidID(owner));
04:44<@Rubidium>I did what?
04:45<HackaLittleBit>the assert on line 472 triggers
04:45<@peter1138>company_base.h wasn't removed...
04:45<HackaLittleBit>because you took out company_base.h header file
04:45<HackaLittleBit>from the includes
04:45<@peter1138>it was added, not removed
04:47<@peter1138>^ see
04:48<Eddi|zuHause>HackaLittleBit: maybe you saved an older version after updating?
04:48<HackaLittleBit>my fault damned
04:48<HackaLittleBit>sorry to wake you up guys
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>err... "make: *** /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/trunk/objs/debug: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden. Schluss." <- something's not working with the "this checkout was moved within the directory structure" detection
04:53<Eddi|zuHause>it seems to work after the second try...
04:54<@Rubidium>yeah, more or less a somewhat unresolvable issue with make; if you do the reconfigure and remake the Makefile it will still execute the old makefile
04:55<@Rubidium>especially because calling the 'source' Makefile's location in code in the old Makefile
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05:13<@peter1138>so when do we switch to cmake or waf? heh
05:16<@Rubidium>why not ant?
05:16<@Rubidium>although... we could simplify the compiling significantly by ditching the crap that's needed for Mac OS X cross compiling
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05:45<Nite_Owl>Hello all
05:49*Tera plays TTD theme *tadadada dada daaa dadadada daaa DA DA*
05:50*SpComb fines Tera for an unlicensed public performance of a copyrighted work
05:52<Eddi|zuHause>over here, you can play unlicensed music, as long as you fill out the GEMA sheet
05:52<Terkhen>what text editor do you use on linux for C++?
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>they'll then tell you how much you have to pay depending on potential audience and stuff...
05:53<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: i use Kate
05:56<Terkhen>I'm trying kate right now, there's a few details I don't like but it is way better than gedit
05:57<Terkhen>vim seems to have a steep learning curve, I'm looking for something simpler
05:58<Terkhen>I should give it a try when I have more time, I heard it can do anything
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06:09*roboboy wonders if it would even be possible to allow veiwing of tunnels as they are but in a quasi underground mode
06:09<roboboy>ie so that one can place where a train is in a long tunnel easily
06:10<roboboy>I don't want anything fancy like rct's underground mode as thats nie on impossible with the current code
06:12<Alberth>why is 'somewhere in the tunnel' not good enough?
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: there were some attempts at a "terrain slicing" (i.e. "paint everything up to height X"(
06:17<Bluelight>What config parameter sets the size of the map og game creation?
06:17<Bluelight>In the config file..
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>size is 2^map_x*2^map_y
06:18<Bluelight>If I want 1024 in one direction what whould that be then?
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>so map_x=10
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>allowed range is 6..11
06:20<Bluelight>So 11 is 2048?
06:20<Bluelight>And 9 is 512?
06:20<Alberth>@calc 2^11
06:20<@DorpsGek>Alberth: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
06:20<Alberth>@calc 2**11
06:20<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 2048
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 2**11
06:20<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2048
06:21<Alberth>seems that way :)
06:21<Bluelight>Thanks a lot.. :)
06:21<Alberth>that will be 5 euro
06:22<Bluelight>He he he....
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07:09<@peter1138>hmm, what's the purpose of the articulated buses in egrvts?
07:10<@peter1138>a 1980 double-decker takes 72 passengers and goes 45mph
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07:10<Nite_Owl>to carry more passengers ??
07:10<@peter1138>a 1990 articulated takes 70 passengers and goes 42 mph
07:10<Nite_Owl>Well - variety then
07:11<@peter1138>also it costs more to buy and run
07:11<@peter1138>hmm, loading speed might be different... that's never shown in the gui
07:12<Nite_Owl>passengers do not have to climb to the top of the bus
07:12<@Rubidium>peter1138: my personal experience with articulated busses and especially bi-articulated busses is that they can driver *much* faster through a city than an unarticulated bus
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07:16<@Rubidium>although I have to agree that in OpenTTD cornering speed is kinda fixed
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07:49<thingwath>would it be possible to allow much faster loading/unloading of longer articulated bus than a double-decker, in openttd? That could be an advantage for them... (for city mass transit use)
07:53<@peter1138>that is already possible, yes
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07:54<Eddi|zuHause>i wish it said the loading speed in the buy window
07:56<@peter1138>i was thinking that
07:56<@peter1138>not sure how to express it
07:58<Nite_Owl>how is it expressed in the nfo code
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07:59<Nite_Owl>i.e. - does a certain value equal a certain speed
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08:01<Nite_Owl>then a certain range of values would be considered slow, the next up slightly less slow, etc.
08:01<@Rubidium>but what is slow?
08:01<@Rubidium>what's fast for a RV can be slow for a ship
08:02<@Rubidium>what about 'n' per day?
08:02<Nite_Owl>Ahhh - so then the values are global across all vehicle types
08:03<frosch123>compute mean, median, standard derivation, and use the quantiles to express the speed :p
08:05<Nite_Owl>can that be done in the background and then have something a bit more meaningful expressed to the player
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08:08<Nite_Owl>anyone know if Galactic Civilizations II is a worthwhile game
08:10<|Terkhen|>I still have to find a 4x MOO-like game better than MOO 2 :/
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08:10*Nite_Owl is updating his software library to fit the new PC
08:10<Nite_Owl>I still have MOO 2 but have yet to see if it will work on Windows 7
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>moo2 works best in dosbox
08:11<Nite_Owl>I did get Civilization III to work
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>we even played multiplayer a few weeks ago
08:12<Nite_Owl>I have a Windows 95 version of MOO 2
08:12<Nite_Owl>actually I think it is both 95 and DOS
08:14<Nite_Owl>I was also looking at F1 games, I have Grand Prix 3, and was looking to get Grand Prix 4. Amazon has it for $130.00 !!!!
08:14<Terkhen>anyone has tried FreeOrion?
08:15<Nite_Owl>never heard of it (activates Google)
08:15<Terkhen>I'll try it after exams
08:15<Terkhen>I miss that kind of games
08:16<frosch123>moo2 works best in 98 vm :p
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: yes, the only difference between win95 and dos moo2 is the .exe, the CD contains both
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08:18<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: have you tried multiplayer over network before you judged "best"?
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08:19<frosch123>i player it multiplayer only once, and i concluded that turn-based games are not suitable for multiplayer
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: well, i tend to be the one that finishes the turn last... so it's kind of beneficial for me to have turn based games ;)
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>on real time games i tend to be crushed by people who control the game more efficiently...
08:21<@Rubidium>turn based openttd :)
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: well, i just don't play multiplayer openttd ;)
08:22*SpComb doesn't play competitive multiplayer openttd
08:22<SpComb>co-op with a friend is fine though
08:22<SpComb>although that does have certain conflicts
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>i suggested to the people cooperative openttd, but they weren't convinced...
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08:23<SpComb>it can be a pain if you have a couple people playing with different styles
08:23<@peter1138>coop openttd can be fun
08:23<@peter1138>not openttdcoop though ;p
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, the others were not really experienced
08:24<SpComb>well, even openttdcoop has some variation on their styles
08:24<SpComb>not all their games are the same
08:25<@peter1138>IS2+CD is basicaly designed for coop play, heh
08:25<SpComb>(e.g. )
08:25<SpComb>peter1138: well, if you can get the people to build some kind of cohesive networks together
08:25<SpComb>it requires some rules/leadership/discipline
08:26<@peter1138>has to be people you know, of course
08:29<Ammler>yes, that is why openttdcoop needs the rules, some rules are also like tips for newbies
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>we also tried MAX multiplayer, but one of the people got really pissed about it really fast, so we stopped :p
08:30<Ammler>16 companies?
08:31<SpComb>I really liked the game I played with a friend over christmas, but the way that basically ended up working out was me playing the absolute dictator, so it's not that great a concept :P
08:33<Ammler>he, that is how the public openttdcoop games work too, just you elect the dictator at game start (plan) :-)
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08:36<SpComb>except in this case there's no plan, the focus is on organic growth :P
08:37<@peter1138>my game plan: find larger cities, build a route between them, preferably encompassing smaller towns
08:38<SpComb>this is with DBSetXL + 4x daylength thrown in... game starting in 1921
08:42<Nite_Owl>Free Orion is not worth it yet - still in early Alpha
08:42<SpComb>so a painfully slow game
08:43<Nite_Owl>many feature not yet even implimented - screen shots look nice though
08:44<Nite_Owl>The only thing that makes me question Galactic Civilizations II is the lack of tactical combat
08:45<Terkhen>I'll have to keep waiting then
08:45<Nite_Owl>other than that it looks fine and is fairly cheap
08:47<Nite_Owl>I also have a real good attack copter sim that I have see if I can get working
08:47<Nite_Owl>plus redownloading all of the add ons
08:48<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> MAX? <- you don't know "M.A.X. - Mechanized Assault and Exploration"?
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08:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18822 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename YAPF-related container classes and their members to better fit other container classes. (skidd13)
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08:58<SpComb>but more players != good, always
08:58<SpComb>and Singaporekid needs to learn how to not build track that blocks D:
08:58<SpComb>a bunch of his stations are deadlocked
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09:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18823 /trunk/src/misc/ (array.hpp fixedsizearray.hpp): -Codechange: Some uints for unsigned ints. (skidd13)
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09:12<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18824 /trunk/src/misc/ (array.hpp fixedsizearray.hpp): -Codechange: Turn some public members into protected ones. (skidd13)
09:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18825 /trunk/src/misc/fixedsizearray.hpp: -Codechange: Sometimes code is shorter if you do not use a function for deduplication. (skidd13)
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09:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18826 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Unifiy return value of (SmallArray|FixedSizeArray)::(Append|AppendC) with other containers. (skidd13)
09:24<evilNirvana>i'ts compiling first try
09:24<evilNirvana>i must have done something wrong
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: was that an undeduplication? :p
09:24<@Rubidium>yeah, you've either followed the manual or you're not using Windows
09:25<evilNirvana>Rubidium: Linux-Debian, and i just wget && tar zxf && ./configure --enable-dedicated && make
09:26<evilNirvana>and it's working. ._.
09:26<+glx>of course it works
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>evilNirvana: occasionally you want to make sure you have stuff like zlib-devel installed
09:26<evilNirvana>i ctrl-c'd it
09:26<evilNirvana>forgot to tell it to use 8 threads
09:26<evilNirvana>Eddi|zuHause: i have zlib. i do IRCd devel and a lot of compiling
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>i think zlib is the only really vital dependency, everything else should be fairly optional
09:27<evilNirvana>[SRC] Compiling window.cpp
09:27<evilNirvana>[SRC] Linking openttd
09:27<evilNirvana>make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ottd/openttd-1.0.0-beta2/objs/release'
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>especially for dedicated
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09:28<Eddi|zuHause>but ./configure should tell you hints about optional stuff that is missing
09:28<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: configure fails fatally if you don't have zlib (and recently liblzo2) and you don't use --without-zlib / --without-liblzo2
09:29<+glx>beta1 and beta2 are not impacted by liblzo2
09:29<evilNirvana>make clean all install -j8
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09:30<+glx>no need to install :)
09:31<evilNirvana>my prefix!
09:31<+glx>you didn't set it in configure?
09:31<evilNirvana>i did
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10:11<SpComb>Singaporekid: Duckship
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10:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r18827 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix: Center main window using smallmap widget edge coordinates.
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11:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18828 /trunk/src/misc/fixedsizearray.hpp: -Fix (r18823): Decrementing uints is different to ints.
11:52<Hirundo>what are the units of TIC/TOC? (profiling macros)
11:54<@Rubidium>CPU ticks
11:54<@Rubidium>i.e. clock cycles
11:55<Hirundo>so there are around 2.5*10^9 of those per second on the average PC?
11:55<arachnist>depends on what you call an average pc
11:55<@peter1138>no, only on the PC that was measured on
11:56<@peter1138>you can use it for comparing benchmarks from a single machine
11:56<@Rubidium>and whether the cpu runs at max speed or in speedstep/coolnquiet etc. mode
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11:56<@peter1138>results from different machines are meaningless
11:56<@peter1138>well, mostly
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11:58<Hirundo>I'm not intending to do any cross-PC benchmarking, just trying to translate LARGE_NUMBER into something I can comprehend
11:59<evilNirvana>LARGE_NUMBER is what,
11:59<@Rubidium>cpu cycles isn't comprehendable?
12:01<@Rubidium>now converting the number of cpu cycles into number of ops... that would be interesting :)
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12:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18829 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Codechange: Don't free memory from within audio mixer callback handler as it may be required to be real-time safe.
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13:18<Mega>for anyone intreste we are playing a cargodist&IS patch online > see here how to join : ;D cya
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13:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the title screen could use what's known in the model railway as "shadow station" [i.e. secret underground paths that store lots of different trains who can pop out at random tunnel entrances]
13:21<@peter1138>they're called depots
13:21<KenjiE20>we used to call them Fiddle Yards
13:22<@Rubidium>and the shadows are just whatever place is outside of the map
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: not entirely, because they can't magically jump to other depots
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: problem is, you have plenty of non-visible space on the top and left, but the bottom and right might eventually become visible on huge screens
13:22<Bluelight>Yea, how does that work?
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13:23<Bluelight>Damn I'm tired.. :p
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>and one can't timetable depot visits...
13:23*Rubidium ponders whether he should design an intro game too
13:24<Alberth>I was also considering doing that
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>it'd be waaay more fun with grfs...
13:24<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but you already have 6 GRFs you can choose from!
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>80% of all new features are grf-related...
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i have two static newgrfs ;)
13:25<@peter1138>submit a patch to allow it ;)
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13:30<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: the two problems would be gracefully falling back to default graphics, and notifying the user to get the grfs from bananas
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18830 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
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14:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18831 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
14:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Change [FS#3537]: do not go into the crashlog handler in case loading a
14:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: savegame misses with missing NewGRFs. This way the load game crash handler gets
14:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: better visibility and the user is instructed to find the missing NewGRFs before
14:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: filing a bug report
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14:24*peter1138 suspects there is no need for a jack audio driver
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14:25<@Rubidium>peter1138: doesn't sdl do that?
14:27<@peter1138>not in debian
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14:28<@peter1138>it was easy to make one, but i don't see much point in actually adding it :)
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15:01<sawtooth>i do run jack from time to time but not 100% of the time. I mainly start it up to run the linux version of Pianoteq.
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15:04<@peter1138>pianoteq is good stuff
15:04<PeterT>Terkhen here?
15:05<Terkhen>Terkhen is here
15:05<PeterT>I'm testing your batch scripts now
15:05<PeterT>wanna go into another channel?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>"1 x AMD PC QUAD PHENOM 9650 4GB 500GB 9500GT-1GB Computer" <-- how much do you think is that worth nowadays?
15:06<Bluelight>Kr. 8.000,-
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>Bluelight: not sure if that tells me anything :p
15:07<thingwath>norwegian money, obviously
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>8000 Norwegische Kronen = 979,641986 Euro <-- that's a little much, don't you think?
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>last time i saw a computer worth 1000 euro, the euro did not even exist...
15:11<@peter1138>a lot cost that
15:11<@peter1138>but not worth it
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the offer is 360€, and i want to know if that's fair
15:13<thingwath>I'd buy it for that price. :) Even though... is there any warranty?
15:13<heffer>i'd go for 420€ :D
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'd expect so, looks like a commercial offer to me...
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15:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18832 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: some indentation whitespace.
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16:00<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18833 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Cleanup: Const-ness and style
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16:38<Rhamphoryncus>my computer's a quad 9550. Twice the ram but no dedicated video card
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17:01<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18834 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp network/core/os_abstraction.h): -Fix [FS#3538]: compilation failed on OpenBSD (matze)
17:05<Tera>okey there's something weird in the Oil Refinerys catchment area.
17:06<Tera>if I build a station 3 blocks away from it, it catches good but not oil. 2 blocks away it accepts oil as well.
17:06<@Rubidium>only a few tiles of the whole refinery accept the oil, not all tiles
17:07<Tera>is that intended?
17:07<frosch123>use the landarea-information tool under the questionmark to discover which tiles
17:07<Tera>thanks. I figured it out already. I'm just wondering is this intended ;) I guess so
17:10<Tera>too bad you can't refit airplanes to oil, hah
17:10<Tera>although it's not that unrealistic as there are tanker planes.
17:11<fjb>They are usually not used to transport oil to a refinery.
17:11<fjb>Some planes of av8 are refittable to everything.
17:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18835 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Fix: Large sounds could still cause an overflow with high sample rates, causing them to be cut off.
17:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18836 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: make TrainUpdateSpeed a class function and update some comments (Terkhen)
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17:17<@peter1138>(i.e. if samplerate was higher than 65535... heh)
17:17<@Rubidium>oh... you need 96000 Hz?
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17:18<@peter1138>i don't, but it's nice to make it work
17:18<@peter1138>88200, 96000, 192000 etc ;)
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17:19<@peter1138>actually i tend to run at 11025
17:20<@peter1138>i had crackly audio with 44100 sometimes
17:20<@peter1138>seems like sdl's audio stuff doesn't recover from xruns
17:20<@peter1138>either that or dodgy alsa drivers, i suppose
17:22<@peter1138>hehe, that sample rate conversion code is so dirty :)
17:22<@peter1138>still, nice and fast
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17:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18837 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename DrawStationTileSeq() to DrawCommonTileSeq() and move it to separate file.
17:26<Eddi|zuHause><peter1138> 88200, 96000, 192000 etc ;) <-- you want dogs to listen to your music? :p
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17:27<Tera>fjb: av8?
17:27<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, 192000 is a marketing gimmick, yes
17:28<fjb>Tera: a plane grf.
17:28<Tera>that makes sense
17:28<Terkhen>using hg resolve, is there any way to show unresolved conflicts?
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>hg status?
17:29<Terkhen>I mean something like rej files when using patch
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>the diff should contain ">>>>>>" and "<<<<<" lines
17:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18838 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange [FS#3524]: reorganisation of the train acceleration code plus some minor optimisations (Terkhen)
17:30<Terkhen>forget it, the conflicts are gone :P
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>hehe :p
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>i rarely deal with patches that are likely to conflict...
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>my patches tend to be very short...
17:32<@Rubidium>mine too... after I commit them :)
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17:32<Xaroth>while(1) die();
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>once a patch of mine was committed after one year, and i totally forgot about it ;)
17:33<Terkhen>I should make shorter patches too
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>i had a patch that was valid over 10000 revisions with only three conflicts ever
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17:34<Eddi|zuHause>[the fourth being the patch made obsolete]
17:39<@Rubidium>let me guess, I broke it all of the times?
17:39<@peter1138>sprite.c is back!
17:40<@peter1138>after... 3½ years of being gone
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not sure about the third time...
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>it was some renaming of a variable in a context line, but i don't remember what it was...
17:42<@peter1138>awww, spritegroup refcounting
17:42<@peter1138>those were the days
17:44<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: let's party :p
17:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18839 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Detriplicate drawing of spritelayouts in the GUI.
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>YAAAY \o/
17:44*Eddi|zuHause opens a bottle of Rotkäppchen
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>screw you, r10000 party!
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17:50*andythenorth coding snowy industries
17:50<andythenorth>snowline can't go down to coast level, right?
17:50<AC6000>i don't believe so....
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>i believe the wiki said something about "you can technically set this to 0, but _please_ don't do it as it'll cause a hell lot of glitches"
17:52<andythenorth>that's fine, means no snow required for harbour etc
17:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18840 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp table/road_land.h): -Codechange: Use DrawCommonTileSeq[InGUI] for roaddepot drawing.
17:53<frosch123>andythenorth: what about rivers
17:53<frosch123>sea is not necessarily at level 0
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what if someone wants to build a harbour on a large river/lake?
17:53<andythenorth>umm, and also canals. In fact, I haven't tested canals with the fishing harbour. No idea if they'll build
17:54<andythenorth>I've never used rivers, so I tend to forget about them :o
17:54<andythenorth>I should use rivers, they are a nice feature
17:54<frosch123>if you use the watersprite as groundsprite of the industry tile, it will draw river/canal borders
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17:56<andythenorth>my harbour doesn't seem to build on canals. that's fine for me, wonder why though...?
17:57<frosch123>correct slopes?
17:57<frosch123>maybe you check for the slopes for shore-ness?
17:58<@peter1138>andythenorth, i think we made it check for height level 0
17:58<andythenorth>that would make sense, and is fine in this case. I think it also checks the tile for both water & land (i.e. coast)?
17:58<frosch123>so build a canal/river at sea-level :p
17:59<andythenorth>yup am doing
17:59<andythenorth>canals don't drag rects, just lines :|
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18:00<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, found that, too...
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>but rivers drag rects, not lines...
18:00<@peter1138>by design
18:00<@peter1138>i don't know what design...
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: looks like an arbitrary restriction to me...
18:00<Terkhen>at the scenario editor, canal do rectangles too
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18:06<andythenorth>flooding sea onto canal tiles is handled quite nicely
18:07<andythenorth>good way to make port facilites eye candy
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, people have (ab)used that for a while ;)
18:11*Terkhen uploads a smaller patch this time
18:11<andythenorth>fishing harbour does build on rivers in the scenario editor
18:11<andythenorth>so I guess we need snow after all
18:12<andythenorth>for that Siberian Lake scenario I'm sure someone is working on
18:12<andythenorth>rivers look kind of sucky, should I be searching for a newgrf to improve them?
18:15<@peter1138>there's about 1, i think
18:15<@peter1138>by mb. i think it's on grfcrawler
18:15<Terkhen>i think it only worked in temperate
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, rivers(w).grf only works in temperate
18:15<frosch123>opengfx also has nice rivers
18:16<frosch123>for all climates :p
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>but there was opengfx who also had rivers
18:16<andythenorth>yup opengfx is much nicer
18:16<andythenorth>for rivers
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18:17<Eddi|zuHause>well, the "problem" with opengfx rivers is that they have very straight shores
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>especially the rectangular corners
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18:34<Terkhen>good night
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18:37*AC6000 fires a spud gun
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18:42<andythenorth>time for sleep
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19:19<frosch123>noone plays with waypoints, right?
19:23<Eoin>very rarely i do
19:24<frosch123>but then you do not use newgrf waypoints, or non-default rail, right?
19:24<Eoin>i just use the default one :P
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i occasionally use the dbset waypoints
19:26*fjb uses waypoints with grfs but dind't have time to play the last weeks.
19:26<frosch123>oh weeks do not matter
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: anything particular?
19:27<frosch123>just the default waypoint uses the signalsprites for monorail and maglev in the waypoint picker for some thousand revisions :p
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>i never use monorail or maglev :p
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>but something's wrong
19:28<frosch123>well, or third-rail or metro or so
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>but the "change visual of adjacent waypoints" thing doesn't work anymore
19:29<frosch123>i guess it behaves the same as stations now, just that you cannot build more than one waypoint tile at once
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause>compare the waypoints in this picture:,%2024.%20Jan%201951.png
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>and this picture:,%2024.%20Sep%201987_1.png
19:39<frosch123>well, they are different waypoints, aren't they?
19:39<frosch123>but what did you with the sign?
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19:41<Eddi|zuHause>turned invisible, of course...
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>but why change the drawing from "waypoints next to each other" to "waypoints of the same 'station'"?
19:42<frosch123>no idea, maybe that is what the specs say
19:42<PeterT>You have Mac Developer:
19:42<frosch123>how does it look nowadays if you join the waypoints?
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>joined waypoints look like the old one
19:44<Eddi|zuHause>but it doesn't make sense, they should look like that in both situations...
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19:46<frosch123>and if you two adjacent non-joined stations? shall they also join graphics?
19:46<frosch123>and also if they are from different companies? or only after you took the other company over?
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: what if you try to build one station out of separate platforms? they should look joined
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know about different companies... could look weird with company colours ;)
19:49<frosch123>that is business of the newgrf, it can distinguish those cases
19:50*frosch123 wonders whether Terkhen also used kde4 kate with its broken indenter
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19:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18841 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r16869): Default-waypoint was drawn incorrectly for monorail and maglev in the waypoint picker.
19:51<fjb>In which way is it broken?
19:52<frosch123>it lacks an option to define whether indenting is done with spaces or tabs. it looks like it tries to determine the indenting style from the previous line, which obviously fails if that one starts at column 1
19:54<@Rubidium>not to mention that adding/removing indentation with /*\n *...\n */ style comments fails horribly
19:54<frosch123>so i always have to fix the indenting when starting a new function or so, and sometimes i forget and get something like space+tab
19:55<frosch123>now i wrote a script to fix that, and it just fixed a case not by me :p
19:56*fjb uses vim.
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19:59<Eddi|zuHause><Rubidium> not to mention that adding/removing indentation with /*\n *...\n */ style comments fails horribly <-- that's a design issue, because kate is line based, so regexp matching cannot span multiple lines
20:00<Eddi|zuHause>well. it's theoretically possible, but more difficult to implement
20:00<@Rubidium>it should just remove the first tab or add a tab at the begin... not mess with stuff further in the line
20:01<frosch123>it worked fine in 3.5.10
20:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18842 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename SPRITE_MODIFIER_USE_OFFSET to SPRITE_MODIFIER_CUSTOM_SPRITE, invert its meaning, and also use it for industry/house layouts instead of IS_CUSTOM_SPRITE().
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>which "it"?
20:04<frosch123>hmm, i cannot remember using the remove/add indent thingie. but pressing enter after \t\t/** correctly indented with \t\t *
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20:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18843 /trunk/src/sprite.cpp: -Codechange: Only NewGRF supplied spritelayouts use SPRITE_MODIFIER_CUSTOM_SPRITE, so no extra tests needed.
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20:39<Rhamphoryncus>I use gvim set to show tabs and only use spaces for indentation (in my own code). Much less confusing
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21:22<Nite_Owl>Hello all
21:24<fjb>Moin Nite_Owl
21:24<Nite_Owl>Hello fjb
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 17 00:00:12 2010