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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-17

---Logopened Sun Jan 17 00:00:12 2010
00:01-!-Uberubert [~chatzilla@158-110-8.connect.netcom.no] has joined #openttd
00:02<AC6000>cyas later
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00:02<Uberubert>anyone awake?
00:04<Sacro>no
00:13*woldemar is not sleeping
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02:12<Terkhen>good morning
02:13<evilNirvana>Morning
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03:46*peter1138 ponders dbsetxl
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04:00<andythenorth>peter1138: go there and see it for the rest of us
04:00*andythenorth has never played with DBSet
04:01*andythenorth offers players "FISH with no default ships"
04:02<@peter1138>well i mean running it on my server for a change, heh
04:04*andythenorth decides that "realism" is less important than "don't have industries screw with players vehicles"
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04:13*peter1138 ponders rewriting bridges-over-stations
04:14<@peter1138>gosh r9833 that was for
04:15<Terkhen>andythenorth: the default ships were just some annoying stuff that made me scroll down before creating a ship
04:16<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/o/stbr.png < those were the days...
04:20<welshdragon>sexy bridge
04:20*welshdragon is on a BUS
04:21<ss23>welshdragon: irl?
04:21<welshdragon>YES
04:21<welshdragon>the X32 Bangor - Aberystwyth Trawscambria service
04:22<welshdragon>question is: will google maps know where I am...
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04:22<welshdragon>nope
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04:27<Izlots>hi, maybe someone can help me. I tried to use 32bpp grafics: I enabled a blitter in my openttd.cfg, but where to put the .tar files? Its windows 7, so i tried data folder in programm dir, and data folter in C:/Users/<my username>/Documents/OpenTTD/data. Also i extrated the tar file and put the sprites folder to both data folders, all without any effect
04:27<Yexo>are you using opengfx or the original ttd graphics?
04:27<Izlots>opengfx
04:27<Yexo>and if you extract the tar file,what are the directories called?
04:28<Izlots>ogfx1_base, ogfx1_tropical
04:28<Yexo>have you tried extracting the opengfx tar file?
04:29<Izlots>opengfx is extratected to <program dir>/data
04:29<Yexo>if you put the 32bpp tars in the same directory is should work
04:31<Izlots>my data dir looks like this: http://izlots.privatepaste.com/e6e21293cd
04:31<Yexo>oh, you're trying to use some extrazoom level graphics
04:31<Yexo>did you download the patched binary?
04:34<Izlots>nope :( thanks! now i know whats wrong :)
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05:06<@peter1138>oh, i never wrote the code to allow building stations under bridges, only bridges over stations
05:07<@peter1138>sprite sorting issues abound :(
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07:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18844 /trunk/src/table/airport_defaults.h: -Codechange: add GPL notice to src/table/airport_defaults.h
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08:10<PeterT>Terkhen here?
08:10<Terkhen>yes
08:11<PeterT>Terkhen, why do you use question mark -> screenshot instead of Ctrl + S?
08:11-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffa85.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
08:11<Terkhen>why not?
08:12<PeterT>because its ugly
08:12<PeterT>because that little GUI stays on the screenshot
08:12<PeterT>and, I was just wondering
08:13<Terkhen>as long as it does not cover what I want to show, I don't think that's a problem
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08:35<PeterT>@seen Bjarni
08:35<@DorpsGek>PeterT: I have not seen Bjarni.
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09:05<PeterT>is there ever a good reason for someone making an entire cpp file in comments?
09:08<Xaroth>dunno, some people like to include their license in that way
09:08<Xaroth>so it's 'compiled in'
09:08<PeterT>for example: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=122692
09:08<PeterT>look at clipboard_gui.cpp
09:09<Xaroth>not everything is commented
09:09<Xaroth>top bit isn't
09:09<PeterT>Xaroth: <PeterT> look at clipboard_gui.cpp
09:10<Yexo>most likely reason for it: fix compile problems in the rest of the code first without worrying about that file
09:10<Yexo>but as long as it's commented out it doesn't do anything (obviously)
09:10<Xaroth>Penda: IO clearly see 2 functions and a var
09:10<Xaroth>uncommented
09:10<Xaroth>the rest, yes, is comments
09:10<Xaroth>er, wth
09:10<Xaroth>my typing fails :o
09:11<Xaroth>s/Penda/PeterT/ s/IO/I/
09:11<PeterT>Penda?
09:11<PeterT>Xarenda, what line number was that?
09:11<Xaroth>line 625-ish in the diff
09:12<PeterT>like I said twice before
09:12<PeterT>look at Index: src/clipboard_gui.diff
09:12<Xaroth>ah bah
09:12<Xaroth>nevermind me then :p
09:13<PeterT>s/.diff/.cpp
09:14<PeterT>seems adf88 already responded
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09:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18845 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: introduce AirportTileSpec and use it for animation
09:25<PeterT>Holy: http://wiki.openttd.org/Special:Recentchanges
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09:43*peter1138 ponders removing all the copyrighted graphics
09:43<@peter1138>(from ttd)
09:47<Terkhen>you mean the option of using the original graphics?
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09:49<Noldo>I think there are some sprites that are derivates of the originals distributed with openttd
09:50<Terkhen>but if they are removed, their substitutes will not match with the original graphics
09:51<Noldo>true
09:56<@peter1138>no
09:56<@peter1138>i mean the sprites that have been extracted and plastered all over the wiki
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09:59<Terkhen>http://wiki.openttd.org/Buses <--- I agree, pages like this one could use OpenGFX
09:59<@peter1138>yup
09:59<@peter1138>http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Industrial_Buildings_(New_Graphics)&curid=1884&diff=35535&oldid=35495
09:59<@peter1138>er
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09:59<@peter1138>http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Industrial_Buildings_(New_Graphics)
09:59<@peter1138>for instance
10:01*Terkhen doubts that the Foster bus changes in tropical climate
10:03<Terkhen>you could give a time to change all of these sprites (for example, before 1.0.0) to avoid getting a lot of empty spaces at the wiki
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10:05<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18846 /trunk/src/ (11 files): -Codechange: Merge DrawTileSeq into DrawCommonTileSeq.
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10:27<PeterT>Bjarni is back
10:28<@Bjarni>I guess so ;)
10:28<PeterT>wooohooo
10:29<@Bjarni>I just read through the whole future for OSX port thread
10:29<@Bjarni>that wasn't any fun :(
10:29<PeterT>are you back for good/
10:30<PeterT>do we have a MacOSX developer?
10:31<@Bjarni>err.... I'm quite busy with my master thesis. I recall when I made the mac port in the first place I worked day and night (mainly nights) and I simply don't have that kind of time right now :s
10:32<@Bjarni>what saddens me the most is that while I have been busy things have become quite bad (worse than I expected) and nobody bothered to send a mail or PM to me
10:33<PeterT>They thought you left
10:33<@Bjarni>not even asking if I might resume work or why I was absent
10:34<@Bjarni>All I got was user support requests, which were all replied with a solution (mainly read the wiki)
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10:35<PeterT>Bjarni: Have you read this? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=849217#p849217
10:35<@Bjarni>for all you know I could have been in an accident and ended up in hospital...
10:35<@Bjarni>PeterT: I just read it
10:36<PeterT>Ok
10:42<andythenorth>Bjarni: I for one am grateful for the work you *did* do on the Mac port
10:42<andythenorth>so thanks
10:43<@Bjarni>yeah I like autoreplace too
10:43<@Bjarni>and the port is nice too ;)
10:43<@Bjarni>not to mention all the other stuff
10:44<@Bjarni>actually the hardest part of making the mac port in the first place (just getting it working) was due to SDL weirdness. If everything just did as expected and according to documentation then it would have been much faster to make
10:46<jonty-comp>heh, I hate it when things don't work like the documentation says they will
10:47<@Bjarni>I spent a week getting the game to open a window to draw in
10:47<@Bjarni>or 4-5 days
10:47<@Bjarni>due to this issue
10:47<@Bjarni>once the issue was resolved (added one line of code) then it just worked
10:48<@Bjarni>because I had already done all the work to get it to compile
10:49<@Bjarni>On the other hand Apple provided great documentation on how to make universal binaries which meant I manage to make a working one (worked flawless!) on a Friday. Apple released the first intel mac the following Monday
10:50<@Bjarni>the documentation were so good that I could get it working without being able to test while coding
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10:55<@Bjarni>looks like Digitalfox has yet to figure out how a revolving door works :P
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10:58<askme>hi all , do you want to make more 500$ daily.. pm me now
10:58-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*barakied@94.249.87.*] by Bjarni
10:58<arachnist>askme: i want to get less spam daily, kthx
10:58-!-askme was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [stop spamming]
10:59<@Bjarni>now that's one problem easily solved
10:59<Digitalfox>Bjarni Actually I was setting up my neowin IRC account, so instead of clicking in close tab I clicked disconnect... My girlfriend is driving me mad with her thesis, shes making me answer a survey she's doing at the same time I'm coding a Project in C...
10:59<jonty-comp>only ten minutes back and you're already banning people :D
11:00<@Bjarni>it wouldn't be responsible not to ban him. He were the one to make money out of whatever he had planned, not the people replying to him
11:00<@Bjarni>they could be the ones to lose the money
11:00<jonty-comp>well, exactly
11:01<@Bjarni>so all in all it was my duty to protect the weak minded users in here
11:01<PeterT>Bjarni: Nice. First day back and already an easy ban :-)
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11:01<jonty-comp>I would point out that those people don't appear all the time, though
11:01<@Bjarni>whoever that might be
11:01<jonty-comp>they only showed up since you returned :P
11:01<jonty-comp>and on freenode, apparently
11:01<jonty-comp>although I ragequit freenode yesterday after getting ~10 global notices in an afternoon
11:02<@Bjarni>PeterT: with my interface all bans are easy. The real question is if they are fair or not ^^
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11:04<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: oh good. You are replying to surveys for people doing thesises. Nice to know as I'm doing a thesis too :P
11:05<@Bjarni>jonty-comp: sounds bad. In fact it sounds like everything goes downhill the minute I turn my back on stuff
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11:07<Digitalfox>Bjarni yeah, but her master thesis it actually interesting :p erotism in publicity ;)
11:07<@Bjarni>:D
11:08<@Bjarni>care to share the outcome of it?
11:08<Digitalfox>not aft
11:08<Digitalfox>not before tryinh some things out first :)
11:08<@Bjarni>remember to bring a camera for documentation purposes
11:09<Digitalfox>lol
11:09<@Bjarni>a master thesis should be a scientific sound piece of paper. You can't get anywhere without proper documentation
11:11<@Bjarni>hmmm... on a serious note. I wonder how one would actually do a master thesis on a topic like that
11:11<@Bjarni>I mean it's somewhat clear how you do it investigating some math theory or whatever
11:12<@Bjarni>however this topic... it's not that clear
11:12*SmatZ chokes Hirundo for uploading crash.* in archive
11:12<SmatZ>hello Bjarni
11:12<@Bjarni>hello SmatZ
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11:12<Digitalfox>yep, that's why she even has tv people that work in publicity replying to her with opinions, answering surveys and she is doing lot's of research on the topic.. And more importantly she's having fun with it :)
11:12*Bjarni starts to wonder
11:13<@Bjarni>erotism in public is mentioned and then SmatZ shows up
11:13<SmatZ>:-D
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11:14<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: most people would have fun with a topic like that
11:15<@Bjarni>though I say it needs a certain degree of lack of shyness, not to mention the ability to keep a cool head when stuff gets hot
11:16<Hirundo>Smatz: What's the issue?
11:16<Digitalfox>She told of a case where a public poster was removed because the women in the picture had a breast showing up, many people complained and it was removed.. But at the same time the same pic was cover of many magazines and no one complained about those magazines.. She told me that many times in public people complain but in private they look at the picture a thousand times looking at every detail..
11:18<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: now that you mention magazines. I hate that you can't buy a train ticket or anything like that anymore without being exposed to the front pages of magazines containing rather lightly dressed women
11:18<@Bjarni>"hello I would like a ticket for (station)". "ok, that will be xx.xx. Leave the money on the boobs"
11:19<@Bjarni>some places have the magazines in piles on the table where you have to pay, which create situations like that
11:19<Digitalfox>Yeah, but I'll ask you.. How many times have you been starring at home or in a coffe looking at the pic of a women half dressed?
11:19<@Bjarni>Digitalfox: 0 at the time when I was 10 and wanted to buy a Donald Duck magazine
11:19<Digitalfox>Better not answer that bjarni ;)
11:20<Digitalfox>If you say so....
11:20<@Bjarni>seriously... who would want to do something like that at the age of 10?
11:21<Digitalfox>puberty comes sooner to some... :p
11:21<@Bjarni>oh wait... I once visited a friend and when we were alone in the house he said he had to show me something funny
11:22<@Bjarni>turned out it was his dad's magazine collection
11:22<Digitalfox>oh no details bjarni please....
11:22<Digitalfox>oh that :)
11:22<@Bjarni>oh man was that boring
11:22<jonty-comp>fishing monthly!
11:22<@Bjarni>I think I was 9
11:23<@Bjarni>err
11:23<@Rubidium>Bjarni: last time you joined it was because you were sick; you said back then that you were incredibly busy with uni stuff. You were also told about the bad shape of the OS X port back then. Now you're wondering why we didn't sent you an email every week to see whether you might have time to fix the stuff that's broken?
11:23<Digitalfox>seriously, erostism in publicity is increasing, another example is that there's more publicity with erotism directed at women these days..
11:24<@Bjarni>jonty-comp: Do you know that's actually a joke in Denmark because hot women can be referred to as herrings....
11:24<jonty-comp>:O
11:24<jonty-comp>how coincidental
11:25-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@157.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
11:25<jonty-comp>also, Bjarni: Rubidium welcomes you back
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11:25<@Bjarni>Rubidium: well there is a difference between what you said back then and then publicly announce that the OSX port will be unsupported
11:26-!-Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has joined #openttd
11:26<Phazorx>hallo
11:27<@Bjarni>hi Phazorx
11:27<Phazorx>got non ttd relevant question but i hope you guys excuse me :)
11:27<@Bjarni>you are excused
11:27<Phazorx>trying to profile sometihng, and been a very long time since i used gprof
11:27<@Bjarni>you can go to the toilet now
11:27<jonty-comp>I hope it isn't if we want to earn $500 extra per week
11:27<Phazorx>does it only do like 1k ticks by default?
11:27<Phazorx>jonty-comp: that's next on the agenda
11:27<Phazorx>right before pant to take over the world
11:28<Phazorx>*plans
11:28<@Bjarni>WHAT?
11:28<@Bjarni>you stole my plan?
11:28<jonty-comp>no, he stole my plan
11:28<Phazorx>Bjarni: borrowed
11:28<jonty-comp>I stole your plan
11:28<Phazorx>you can conquer it enxt week
11:28<@Bjarni>...
11:28<Phazorx>anwyay i compiled it with -pg
11:28<@Bjarni>I will beat you to it
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11:28<Phazorx>and run it with gprof... but i get like only ~1000 ticks
11:29<Phazorx>so i wonder if it is limitted or soemthing?
11:29<@Bjarni>seriously though I can't answer gprof questions :/
11:29<Phazorx>well someone should be able to
11:29<Phazorx>i know you guys profiled the pathfinders
11:29<Phazorx>even i profiled yapf few times
11:29<Terkhen>Phazorx: you can set the number of ticks with the -v null parameter... but I don't remember the syntax right now :/
11:29<Phazorx>but that was 2 years ago
11:29<@Rubidium>Bjarni: we publicly announced that we would drop official OS X support if there would be no improvements. Primarily to get the bugs in the Mac port fixed by *some* Mac developer.
11:29<Phazorx>Terkhen: The -v flag causes "gprof" to print the current version number, and then exit.
11:30<Phazorx>huh?
11:30<@Rubidium>Bjarni: with making the public announcement half a year before actually doing it we would at least not be blamed by "why didn't you tell us you needed help" kind of remarks
11:30<@Bjarni>fair enough
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11:32<Yexo>Phazorx: it's a flag for openttd, not for gprof
11:32<Terkhen>Phazorx: I meant OpenTTD option. -v null:ticks=(number)
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11:32<Phazorx>well that doesnt help much since i am o doing ottd :)
11:32<Phazorx>*not doing
11:33<Phazorx>but back to original question - is gprof limited by default
11:33<Phazorx>or it runs till sighup?
11:33<Terkhen>sorry, I can't help you then; I have only used gprof without options
11:33<@peter1138>what?
11:33<@peter1138>gprof is gprof
11:34<Phazorx>totaly agreed to that
11:34<Phazorx>so how does it work?
11:34<@peter1138>openttd's null video driver is limited to 1000 ticks by default
11:34<@peter1138>16:27 < Phazorx> got non ttd relevant question but i hope you guys excuse me :)
11:34-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FD2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:34<@peter1138>but you're not talking about that
11:34<Phazorx>exactly
11:34<@Rubidium>we also officially don't support 10.6 for 0.7 (e.g. FS#3194), given that 10.6 will quickly end up being the major version of OS X, what is the point in saying "we support OS X" whereas that would be a lie for the majority of OS X installs?
11:34<Phazorx>i am talking about naev, whoch is completely different game
11:34<Phazorx>has nothing to do with openttd
11:35<Phazorx>but aside of that it is still a cpp app
11:35<Phazorx>and i want to know why it pegs my cpu
11:35<Phazorx>so i want to profile it
11:35<@peter1138>nothing to do with gprof
11:35<Phazorx>peter1138: so gprof functions for whole duration while executable is running
11:35<@peter1138>yes, it doesn't know anything else
11:35<Phazorx>there is no limitter of any kind based on number off calls, log size, image nubers, dll calls ?
11:35<Phazorx>perfect
11:36*Phazorx mumbles so why the heck is it stopping it 1000 then :/
11:37<SmatZ>Hirundo: I have to download the archive, I can't open the files in the browser
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11:39<zzero>hi
11:39<SmatZ>hello zzero
11:39<zzero>I downloaded the recent svn trunk
11:39<zzero>and got some problems
11:39<zzero>with my trains in a loaded game
11:39<zzero>I started it recently
11:39<zzero>after the new beta came out
11:40<zzero>and it worked fine through many revisions
11:40<zzero>but today
11:40<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18847 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix [FS#3541] (r18769): configure didn't properly detect libtimidity anymore (hannibal218bc)
11:41<zzero>my trains got *really* slow
11:41<zzero>I weren't using any grf-s
11:41<zzero>is this a bug or a feature?
11:42<Terkhen>what revision are you using?
11:42<@Bjarni>do the trains just feel slow or do they report slow speeds as well?
11:42<@Rubidium>and what trains are you using?
11:42<zzero>it was r18843
11:42<zzero>from this morning
11:42<@Bjarni>report slow speed as in the vehicle window reports like 20 km/h
11:42<zzero>it felt slow
11:43<zzero>wait
11:43<@Bjarni>but they reported full speed?
11:43<zzero>i'll check the reported speed
11:45<zzero>I have reverted to an earlier version which worked fine
11:45<Alberth>zzero: slow or just very slowly increasing in speed?
11:45-!-Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has left #openttd []
11:45<zzero>I'll check the problematic one
11:45<Alberth>check the vehicle acceleration setting
11:46<Alberth>original causes very slowly increasing speed
11:46<@peter1138>train acceleration model: slow
11:46<zzero>I did not change that setting
11:46<zzero>I just loaded the game after compiling a new version
11:47<@peter1138>aye, it's a bug
11:47<@peter1138>cos nobody seriously uses original acceleration
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11:48<Phazorx>peter1138: can i bug you a bit more with gprof stuff
11:48<Phazorx>i'm failing to comprehend sometihng
11:49<Terkhen>zzero: in which revision it worked fine? what realistic acceleration setting are you using?
11:49<@Rubidium>Terkhen: the original settings
11:49<zzero>so
11:49<Terkhen>ah, okay
11:50<zzero>I was using original acceleration
11:50<zzero>as it turned out
11:50<zzero>I was using a trunk version from a few days ago
11:51<zzero>the trains are moving
11:51<Phazorx>http://paste2.org/p/616627 << this is a capture of ~180 seconds of gameplay, and cumulative timing for function calls is ~3 second
11:51<Phazorx>also, cpu sats say it was 3 minutes as well rather than 3 seconds... so am i missing something or 99% of time goes to nowhere?
11:52<Yexo>maybe because gproff has a lot of overhead?
11:52<zzero>but for example a train with 2 sh40 engine is accelerating awfully slow
11:52<Phazorx>Yexo: cpu usage seems same for regular binary and for one copiled with -pg flags
11:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18848 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18838): the original accelaration got broken
11:53<zzero>wow
11:53<zzero>I changed to realistic acceleration
11:53<zzero>and my trains became really fast
11:53<@Rubidium>Phazorx: gprof doesn't do libraries that aren't compiled with gprof support. If you're doing a non-null/non-fast forward game most time is spent in 'sleep'
11:53<zzero>they're climbing hills like going horizontally
11:54<zzero>thanks for the help
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11:54<Yexo>zzero: but in turns your trains will slowdown more
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11:54<Phazorx>Rubidium: reason why i want to profile this thing is because it uses 1.5 cores while showing title screen which is static
11:54<frosch123>zzero: that is because most players want their trains to go very fast with lots of cargo, and as they lack any reasons for trains doing so, they call it "realisitc"
11:55<Phazorx>which makes me beleife it does sometihng other than sleeps
11:55<@Rubidium>Phazorx: SDL + Audio + Ubuntu?
11:55<Phazorx>especially if it does use these ticks as fasr as kernel is concerned
11:55<zzero>frosch: thanks :-)
11:55<zzero>I just wanted to ask the corresponding question
11:55<Phazorx>SDL + OGL + OAL + MinGW + XP32
11:55<@Rubidium>oh, then I've got absolutely no clue
11:55<Phazorx>sound is a bit relevant but it is not pulseaudio anyway
11:56<Phazorx>OAL somehow is messed up as well here, ut i test with no audio atm
11:56<Terkhen>parenthesis... my old nemesis strikes again :(
11:56<@Rubidium>but you'd be better of compiling all libraries with profiling support too
11:56<Phazorx>hmm... that will be a chllenge
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12:01<Phazorx>okay, say i have list of ddls i want to find sources for
12:01<Phazorx>how do i go about that
12:02<zzero>so now my trains neglect any slopes
12:02<zzero>and are crazy fast
12:02<zzero>but if I go with the original model
12:02<Phazorx>also, where does OpenTTD SDL libs come from?
12:02<Terkhen>zzero: using realistic acceleration, you can change how they behave in slopes
12:02<Phazorx>for win builds that is
12:02<zzero>oh
12:02<Terkhen>also, the commit that was just made should fix original acceleration
12:02<zzero>oh
12:02<zzero>okay, I'm gonna check that one
12:03<zzero>thanks, Terkhen
12:04<Terkhen>I was the person who broke it, not the one who fixed it :P
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12:06<Phazorx>and it just occured to me there are no dlls that come with openttd?
12:06<Phazorx>or are they dumped by installer into system?
12:06<zzero>Terkhen: maybe not so much thanks than :-p
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12:14<PeterT>@seen Bjarni
12:14<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 31 minutes and 32 seconds ago: <Bjarni> but they reported full speed?
12:14<@Bjarni>@seen PeterT
12:14<@DorpsGek>Bjarni: PeterT was last seen in #openttd 20 seconds ago: <PeterT> @seen Bjarni
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12:15*Bjarni waves at PeterT
12:15*PeterT waves back?
12:16<PeterT>Bjarni: Why were you "saddened" when you read the Future of the MacOSX port?
12:16<PeterT>sorry, I mean this: <Bjarni> that wasn't any fun :(
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12:18<@Bjarni>PeterT: well it looks like the mac port blew up after I last checked it
12:18-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FD2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:18<PeterT>have you seen this, Bjarni? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2782?string=Mac+OSX&project=1&search_name=&type[0]=&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
12:18-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@174.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
12:18<jonty-comp>long url is long
12:18<PeterT>Sorry, this: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2782
12:19<PeterT>better, jonty-comp ?
12:19<jonty-comp>yes
12:19<jonty-comp>:p
12:19<@Bjarni>PeterT: yes. Never got around to actually investigate how to solve this one
12:19<Alberth>Phazorx: OpenTTD is cross-platform, dll's are useless at any non-windows platform, hence we use external libs, or provide source.
12:19<@Bjarni>though somebody was bugging me to do it ASAP
12:19<@Bjarni>I forgot who :P
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12:20<PeterT>I'm really glad I have Windows and Linux
12:20<PeterT>Bjarni: http://techxav.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/howfanboysseeoperatingsystems.jpg
12:21<@Bjarni>lol
12:21*jonty-comp seems to apply to different parts of all of those
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12:21<jonty-comp>perhaps I'm an everything-fanboy
12:22<@Bjarni>same here
12:22<jonty-comp>in fact, if you read in a vertical zig-zag from the bottom left upwards, that's me
12:22<PeterT>My favorite is how Windows fan boys see Mac
12:22<@Bjarni>same here
12:22<PeterT>Clever
12:22<jonty-comp>if only Macs came with graphics tablets
12:22<@Bjarni>and that's possibly the only picture where I pass and state that's not how the world is
12:22<Xaroth>jonty-comp: some do :o
12:22<Sacro>they do if you get a glass trackpad
12:23<jonty-comp>well, new mighty mouse not included
12:23<@Bjarni><jonty-comp> if only Macs came with graphics tablets <-- I went to a mac shop and tried one
12:23<Xaroth>but the tablets suck donkey
12:23<Xaroth>if you're used to a mouse
12:23<Xaroth>might be useful for a graphic artist
12:23<jonty-comp>I dropped the new mighty mouse in PC world
12:23<@Bjarni>worked ok, but I wasn't convinced that it would be a good investment
12:23-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FD2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:23<PeterT>Bjarni: How well do you know GIT?
12:23<jonty-comp>I could never get the hang of them, you have to draw while not looking at what you're drawing
12:24<@Bjarni>PeterT: I failed to get it working :(
12:24<PeterT>on a mac?
12:24<@Bjarni>used mercurial instead
12:24<@Bjarni><PeterT> on a mac? <-- yeah, though it was ages ago
12:24<jonty-comp>that's a point, you're supposed to be able to install OS X in VirtualBox now
12:24<@Bjarni>the code might be more user friendly now
12:24*jonty-comp investigates
12:25<@Bjarni>O_O
12:25*Bjarni investigates virtualbox
12:25<jonty-comp>well, it's a bit hacky
12:25<jonty-comp>but they recently added EFI support
12:25*PeterT ivestigates Bjarni
12:25<@Bjarni>access denied
12:26<Xaroth>Bjarni's firewall is set to deny all :P
12:26<+glx>[18:02:26] <Phazorx> also, where does OpenTTD SDL libs come from? <-- win builds don't use SDL by default
12:27<Phazorx>glx: how are they complied then?
12:27<@Bjarni>EFI isn't enough on it's own. It also needs some extended memory management
12:28<+glx>dynamically loaded if the dll is found and the code compiled to use it
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12:28<Phazorx>oh
12:28<+glx>but MSVC builds are compiled without sdl support
12:28<Phazorx>and if i use mingw myself?
12:28<jonty-comp>Bjarni: http://sites.google.com/a/puredarwin.org/puredarwin/developers/virtualbox
12:29<+glx>if headers are found by configure, then mingw builds are compiled with sdl support, but it's activated at runtime only if the dll is found
12:29<+glx>and with -s sdl of course
12:29<@Bjarni>PAE... that was the name
12:29<+glx>and -v sdl too
12:31<PeterT>@seen fonsinchen
12:31<@DorpsGek>PeterT: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: almost. I have added gitmake and .gitignore
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>the second time...
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>the third time and i'll send in a formal complaint...
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>hm... Bjarni is back and the whole channel is full of spam... correlation or causality? :p
12:38-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm102.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:38<Xaroth>causality
12:38-!-fjb [~frank@p5485FD2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:40<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: I don't think spam have been a severe issue today
12:40<@Bjarni>except for that banned bigot
12:40<Xaroth>compared to the past months, it was
12:40<@Bjarni>but he is history
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>maybe my level to declare "a lot of text" to "spam" is a little low ;)
12:41-!-guru is now known as guru3
12:42<@Bjarni>isn't spending several lines talking about spam kind of spam on it's own?
12:42<@Bjarni>:P
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12:42<Eddi|zuHause>likely ;)
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>see... you're even causing me to spam!
12:42<@Bjarni>I mean if no spam appeared, then you wouldn't talk about it and this means your outburst is part of a spam issue
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>definitely causality :p
12:43<@Bjarni>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE <-- more spam
12:43<@Bjarni>:P
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>416 Requested range not satisfiable <-- :p
12:44<@Bjarni>works for me
12:45<@Bjarni>you are just spamming with pointless issues
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: means "i already have that file" :p
12:45<@Bjarni>ahh
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12:47<@Bjarni>moo
12:48<@Bjarni>buhuu... no free milk today :(
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12:57<Sacro>ZOMG
12:57<Sacro>HE'S BACK
12:57<arachnist>who? Bjarni?
12:58<Sacro>Yes! :D
12:58<@Bjarni>I haven't forgotten who you are either :P
12:58<Sacro>I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not
12:59<Sacro>or whether to feel insulted
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: well, you have about two months time to get the mac port in order, or there won't be any mac version of 1.0.0
12:59<PeterT>anyone know how to check out a certain revision using GIT fetch?
12:59<Yexo>did you try man git?
12:59<PeterT>as per these instruction? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=849353#p849353
12:59<Sacro>git -help
12:59-!-Chrill [~chrischri@h-16-169.A149.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
13:00<PeterT>Sacro: That's not helpful at all
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13:00<Sacro>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+check+out+a+certain+revision+using+GIT+fetch
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>Bjarni: that, or teach someone else to maintain the port
13:01<@Bjarni>Eddi|zuHause: who said I would do it? Today two people showed up on the forum claiming to be professionals who wants to take a look
13:01<@Bjarni>considering the solution is likely something regarding some API I don't know and don't have time to study right now I guess such outside assistance should be welcomed
13:01<@Rubidium>the thread has shown more people that are willing and (according to themselves) qualified, yet not much has come since they said they'd do it
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>lots of people tried to help, nobody ever was heard of again...
13:02<@Bjarni>I know
13:02<Sacro>what happened to KUDr :(
13:02<@Bjarni>he got really busy doing something
13:02<@Rubidium>Sacro: he got hit by complex C++
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>one of his template creations got scentient and killed him :p
13:03-!-|Terkhen| [~Terkhen@112.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
13:03<@Bjarni>plenty of people have claimed to do something and then left before it was done
13:03<@Bjarni>for various reasons
13:04*Sacro dislikes C++
13:04<Sacro>though yacc and bison are worse
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13:06<Eddi|zuHause>they used eli on our university...
13:06<@Bjarni>Sacro: when what do you like?
13:06<@Bjarni>(besides women)
13:07<@Bjarni>on our uni they learned us C and then they told us to use Java "because it's easier"
13:07<@Bjarni>some students objected
13:07<@Bjarni>go figure
13:07-!-|Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>another one that mixes up teach and learn...
13:08<Sacro>C# is mychoice
13:08<@Bjarni>oops
13:08<Sacro>though I keep liking the look of Vala
13:08*Bjarni stays away from Sacro
13:09<@Bjarni>anything sharp in his presence seems dangerous
13:09<@Bjarni>and who is Vala?
13:09<@Bjarni>is she cute?
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13:11<Sacro>haha
13:11<Sacro>it's a GNOME language
13:11<Sacro>like C# syntax wise but builds to C
13:11<@Bjarni>so she is a gnome
13:11<@Bjarni>you certainly have an interesting taste :P
13:12<@Bjarni>hmm
13:12<@Rubidium>isn't Vala that con artist?
13:12<@Bjarni>builds to C while maintaining C# interface. Sounds interesting considering how many people who prefer C#
13:13<Alberth>Bjarni: Your guess was not bad: (wikipedia) "Vala Mal Doran is a fictional character in the Canadian-American Sci-Fi Channel television series Stargate SG-1"
13:13<@Rubidium>oh shoot... now Alberth broke my joke
13:14<@Bjarni><Alberth> Bjarni: Your guess was not bad <-- that goes without saying though I had no idea about Stargate
13:15<Alberth>Neither had I, apparently :)
13:15<@Bjarni>My only chance to watch it is Swedish TV6 and they transmit with a low bitrate and hardcoded big Swedish subtitles
13:16<@Bjarni>and it's on at odd hours, like lunchtime on weekdays
13:16<@Bjarni>It's just like when Star Trek was on Danish TV. It was on like 2 O'clock on the night after Saturday
13:17<Alberth>that's where you have a HD recorder for :)
13:17<__ln>wtf, i'm away for a few hours and a Bjarni shows up
13:17<@Bjarni>well I could record now, but the Star Trek issue... well VCRs weren't that common back then and I didn't have any
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13:18<@Bjarni>surprisingly no Danish channel have decided to show Star Trek since
13:18<Alberth>same here :(
13:19<@Bjarni>except until now. Our brand new HD free-to-air channel have decided to show all the movies in 720p
13:19<@Bjarni>so far they have showed 3 of them
13:20<@Bjarni>__ln: you stay away and you miss stuff
13:20<@Bjarni>you stay here and you miss going to the shop and buy the winning lotto ticket
13:20<@Bjarni>your choice :P
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13:26<@Bjarni>and now everybody went to buy lotto tickets O_O
13:26<@peter1138>not on a sunday
13:27<@Bjarni>they will notice once they reach the shops :P
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13:34<@Bjarni>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45247&p=849387#p849387 <--- coding idea for one of the OSX issues
13:34<@Bjarni>I recall something about 32 bpp being horribly slow compared to 8bpp
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13:40<dihedral>a Bjarni ?? no way! fake!!
13:40-!-mib_u3vw7kwkcgfn [54de0111@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit []
13:40<dihedral>photoshop
13:40<@Bjarni>no
13:40<@Bjarni>bot
13:40<dihedral>ah
13:40<dihedral>cheaters!
13:40<Xaroth>!Bjarni slap dihedral
13:40<Xaroth>hm, this bot lacks features.
13:40<dihedral>!bjarni kick Xaroth
13:40<dihedral>:-P
13:41-!-Xaroth was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [die]
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13:41-!-Xaroth is "Xaroth" on #openttd @#fed2k @+#openDune #openttdcoop
13:41<dihedral>:-D
13:41<Xaroth>git
13:41<Uberubert>lol? xP
13:41<Xaroth>how can you question laughter, Uberubert?
13:42<@Bjarni>good question
13:42<Uberubert>it was merely the laughter questioning the situation
13:42<@Bjarni>it's always a question if it's a good idea to laugh in a given situation, not if a person is laughing loudly or not
13:43<@Bjarni>like if you see a road accident it's not a good idea to laugh at the guy being hit
13:43<Uberubert>unless the guy being hit is a cyclist
13:43<Uberubert>tour de france rocks
13:44<@Bjarni>I read about some psychiatrist who stated that he have had several patients who were told to always smile to the customers at work even when unhappy. The result was that they couldn't stop smiling and that caused them severe problems
13:44<@Bjarni>like a case where one of them witnessed a severe road accident and she just stood there looking and smiling
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18849 /trunk/src/lang/ (finnish.txt greek.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt slovenian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 1 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by bjelleklang
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovenian - 96 changes by ntadej
13:46<Uberubert>I hope you didnt just compare a serious road-accident to being randomly kicked from an irc-channel..?
13:47<@Bjarni>I didn't
13:47<@Bjarni>at least I had no intention to do so
13:48<@Bjarni> besides <Uberubert> unless the guy being hit is a cyclist <--- is even more questionable
13:48<dihedral>i'd question the author's sense after reading that quote
13:49<@Bjarni>I once saw a whole lot of bikes in a race (not tour de france, but looked similar) and they crossed a railroad crossing
13:50<@Bjarni>they didn't care to stop just because there were a train coming
13:50<@Bjarni>that ended up as a close call
13:51<Uberubert>I had a nearly daily near-crash with a cyclist whilst driving pizzas
13:51<Uberubert>due to cyclists not caring about their surroundings.. :&
13:51<Uberubert>:(
13:52-!-Uresu [~Wes@5ace7bdb.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
13:52<@Bjarni>I was once a few cm from hitting a deer at around 60 km/h
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13:52<Uberubert>lucky you
13:52<@Bjarni>another time a woman crossed the tracks around 10 meters in front of me without seeing me
13:52<@Bjarni>both times driving the very same train
13:53<@Bjarni>or at least the same locomotive
13:53<Uberubert>wow
13:53<@Bjarni>10 meters sounds like a lot, but if you start to calculate time to cross the tracks and the speed of the train, it ended up as a close call
13:54<@Bjarni>never hit anything but bugs though
13:54<Uberubert>they had to rebuild a crossing here in norway where I live
13:54<Uberubert>people tended to run over, when 160km/h trains were trying to pass
13:55<@Bjarni>we don't allow crossings if the train is allowed to go faster than 140 km/h
13:55<@Bjarni>trains drive 160 km/h in Norway?
13:55<Uberubert>not sure they can, but one train had a speedindicator in the wagons, it went to 160
13:56<@Bjarni>don't trust those
13:56<Chrill>Dont the X2000 run into Oslo?
13:56<Uberubert>maybe I joined some random speed-test or something
13:56<Uberubert>never seen a speedindicator since
13:56<@Bjarni>here there is a steering car, which is allowed to go 140 km/h, yet the speedometer goes to 250
13:57<Uberubert>as far as the X2000 goes, I have never heard of it, and have no idea.. google it
13:57<@Bjarni>reason: they wanted one which already passed a specific international test to avoid making new expensive tests and when they found one they stopped searching for more
13:57<@Bjarni>or something like that
13:58<@Bjarni>X2000 goes to Copenhapen and further north to Østerport to be turned around. This means while the train itself is quite fast it drives on tracks with a speed limit of 60 km/h
13:59<Chrill>hmm
13:59<Chrill>X2000 operates at speeds of up to I-don't-know-their-top-speed in Sweden
13:59<Chrill>200 km/h
13:59<@Bjarni>I think it's 250, but I'm not sure
13:59<@Bjarni>only 200?
13:59<Chrill>top speed in regular traffic, 204km/h
13:59<@Bjarni>that's still quite fast though
13:59<Chrill>top speed in testing, 276km/h
14:00<Uberubert>hey, didnt some guy tape himself riding the roof of one of those french supertrains?
14:00<Chrill>yep
14:00<Uberubert>how fast are those?
14:00<Chrill>300
14:00<Uberubert>that's insane
14:00<Chrill>well that particular TGV was
14:00<@Bjarni>571 in a speed test
14:00<Chrill>new Chinese railways, 400 something
14:01<PeterT>Openttd compiles completely failed....
14:01<Chrill>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuguang_Passenger_Railway
14:01<Chrill>stop speed of 350km/h
14:01<Chrill>Average speed of 313km/h :P
14:06<@Bjarni>it stops at 350 km/h?
14:06<Xaroth>The trains used on the line are manufactured completely in China
14:06<Xaroth>hah
14:06<@Bjarni>I bet they are great
14:06<@Bjarni>and if order them we get something not so great
14:06<Alberth>they match the rotational speed of earth then, so they are fixed in space :p
14:06<@Bjarni>and when it derails and you see the bottom of it, it has a big marker "made in China"
14:06<Alberth>rofl
14:08<@Bjarni>While stuff in China can be of quite questionable quality I say that there actually is something good coming out of there
14:08<@Bjarni>the problem is to find it
14:09<@Bjarni>and if you buy one unit, declares it to be good and order another one, then the next one is crap
14:09<@Bjarni>looks the same, but it isn't
14:09<@Bjarni>the same goes for other countries
14:09<Uberubert>like norwegian salmon.. :/
14:09*Alberth seldomly buys countries
14:10<@Bjarni>Brooklyn bridge had problems with a supplier doing this with building materials. It was a local business, not a Chinese one
14:10*Hirundo posts feature request 'Found New Country'
14:10<@Bjarni>* Alberth seldomly buys countries <-- very few people do
14:10<@Bjarni>countries do once in a while though
14:11<@Bjarni>like UK trying to buy Iceland or parts of it or whatever is going on
14:11<Alberth>hmm, that's an idea for the ice-save money :p
14:12<Uberubert>I thought iceland was declared bankrupt
14:12<@Bjarni>looks to me like the fishing war isn't over
14:13<jonty-comp>ooh
14:13<jonty-comp>the UK should buy Iceland
14:13<@Bjarni>now the UK state bought the debt from Icesafe and wants the Icelandic government to pay it, even though it's actually an Icelandic bank, with owes the money
14:13<jonty-comp>then I could live there more easily
14:13<@Bjarni>the bank is bankrupt btw
14:14<Xaroth>can't, jonty-comp, the dutch already own them :P
14:14<Uberubert>how much does Andorra cost?
14:14<Uberubert>shouldn't be too expensive, seeing how small it is, right?
14:16<@Bjarni>I think it's obscene that it's generally accepted that the Icelandic state should cover the loss of Icesafe
14:16<jonty-comp>the Icelandic state has no money anyway
14:16<Terkhen>Uberubert: Andorra is small, but there's a lot of rich people living there to evade taxes
14:16<jonty-comp>although when I was there last summer it seemed there was construction going on literally everywhere
14:16<jonty-comp>so someone must've had some money back then
14:17<@Bjarni> <jonty-comp> so someone must've had some money back then <--- no. They just managed to get somebody else to pay. That's part of the whole problem
14:17<Uberubert>what kind of trains does iceland have?
14:18<jonty-comp>none
14:18<jonty-comp>they actually have no train lines at all
14:18<@Bjarni>a few men (3-5) manage to act like kings in a legal way and run their own economy based on borrowed money. Once the stock marked internationally started to drop, they all went bankrupt
14:18<jonty-comp>heck, there's only one road that circles the island anyway
14:18<@Bjarni>and now they are far away with all the money
14:19<@Bjarni><Uberubert> what kind of trains does iceland have? <--- They have Pioneer. A Henschel steamer running on narrow gauge (600 mm... I think)
14:19<@Bjarni>used when building the harbour in Reykjavik and now placed in a museum
14:19<@Bjarni>they never really had carriages for it
14:20<@Bjarni>and the tracks are gone except for the few in the museum
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14:21<PeterT>@seen fonsinchen
14:21<@DorpsGek>PeterT: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 18 hours, 14 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: almost. I have added gitmake and .gitignore
14:21<@Bjarni>If you go there you can read a whole lot about how the harbour was contructed. You can spend quite a while reading a full wall of information. However it's all in Danish because the harbour was built back when Iceland was a province of Denmark
14:22<@Bjarni>seems odd to go to a museum in Iceland and then all the text is in Danish and nobody bothered to translate any of it
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14:23<Uberubert>haha, well it wouldn't bother me, written danish is practicly norwegian
14:24<@Bjarni>didn't bother me either ;)
14:24<@Bjarni>oh btw how serious is the idea about Norway buying Iceland?
14:25<@Bjarni>http://tomstaavi.vgb.no/2010/01/06/tilby-island-fusjon-med-norge/
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14:25<Uberubert>I must have missed that part in the news
14:26<@Bjarni>I like this idea
14:26<@Bjarni>as weird as it may sound I think it's likely the best outcome for both Iceland and Norway
14:26<jonty-comp>well, I'm going to Norway in the summer anyway
14:26<jonty-comp>so that could be nice
14:26<Alberth>PeterT: instead of querying Dorpsgek in the channel, do it in a private conversation plz
14:26<frosch123>hmm, sincet greenland just left denmark some more
14:26<frosch123>maybe they also want to get iceland
14:27<@Bjarni>I don't think Greenland wants to buy Iceland
14:27<@Bjarni>and I don't think Greenland wants to leave Denmark either
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14:27<Noldo>how would you buy a country anyway?
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14:27<PeterT>Alberth: Do you know the url for the stats page for #openttd?
14:27<@Bjarni>after all schools, hospitals and stuff in Greenland is paid by the Danish state
14:28<@Bjarni><Noldo> how would you buy a country anyway? <-- read the link. You say "let's merge on my conditions and I will be responsible for paying everything you owe other countries"
14:28<Alberth>PeterT: I don't even know what a stats page for irc is (other than a bunch of useless numbers)
14:29<@Bjarni>I know what the page is, but I forgot the URL
14:29<@Bjarni>and I didn't bookmark
14:29<PeterT>Alberth: http://pisg.sourceforge.net/
14:29<PeterT>that's what the stats are
14:30<@Bjarni>as for buying a country by paying their debt... the country in question should be more or less bankrupt for that to work
14:30<@Bjarni>Saying it to a country like Denmark where the debt to other countries is 0 wouldn't work
14:31<@Bjarni>actually it's negative.... so go pay up now :P
14:31<Alberth>yep, that looks like a bunch of useless numbers :)
14:32<jonty-comp>iirc #openttd has never had stats
14:32<@Bjarni>!stats
14:32<@Bjarni>hmm
14:32<Alberth>@stats
14:32<@DorpsGek>Alberth: I have 8 registered users with 16 registered hostmasks; 2 owners and 0 admins.
14:32<@Bjarni>the bot is gone
14:32<Alberth>more useless numbers :)
14:32<jonty-comp>that's all the useless numbers you need
14:33<@Bjarni>means we don't have stats anymore
14:33<@Bjarni>either that or I forgot the name of it :P
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14:37<@Bjarni>Uberubert: you say you didn't hear about the idea that Norway should include Iceland?
14:37<Uberubert>yeah, I don't watch the news on a regular basis
14:38<@Bjarni>ok
14:38<Uberubert>there is a good chance I missed it, if they even considered it
14:38<@Bjarni>who is this guy anyway?
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14:38<@Bjarni>Tom Staavi
14:39<Uberubert>I never heard of him before
14:39<@Bjarni>Danish press made him sound somewhat important
14:39<@Bjarni>hehe
14:39<@Bjarni>I wonder if it's just some random person and a journalist who wanted a big story or if there really is something about this
14:40<Uberubert>well, he's blogging for one of the biggest newspapers in norway
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14:41<Uberubert>hmm after a quick google-search, seems he's just a darn good economy journalist
14:41<Uberubert>won some awards for it even
14:41<@Bjarni>interesting
14:42<@Bjarni>but for all we know everybody ignored this idea
14:42<@Bjarni>except a Danish journalist who decided to declare that Norway have mega-lo-mania
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14:44<@Bjarni>haha. Checking out vg.no to see what kind of newspaper it is. The Dilbert on the front page is quite good :D
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14:45<@Bjarni>I once received a paper and was told it was a report this student had to hand in the next day and he asked me to give him feedback. It started ok and then it it turned technical and it stopped making sense
14:46<Terkhen>is having different difficulty settings for the same scenario depending on if it was loaded at single player or multiplayer a known issue? (at least for maximum loan: in single player it uses the scenario settings, in multiplayer it uses the current configuration)
14:46-!-JVassie^ [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:47<@Bjarni>turned out that it was all a joke. The report was written by an application he found online, which could write unreadable reports and make them look so technical that nobody wants to ask questions and make them look dumb. Clearly anybody who could write that would know what he is doing
14:48<Uberubert>you should check out pondus if you're looking for good funnies
14:49<Uberubert>atleast pondus is norwegian-made
14:49<@Bjarni>and that should be a sign of quality? :)
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14:50<Uberubert>of course ;D
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15:28<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18850 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp landscape.cpp): -Fix [FS#3540]: don't allow screen redraw when the landscape contains broken slopes
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16:01<Terkhen>spammers are getting creative: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=849416#p849416
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16:02<SmatZ>indeed
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16:08<Phazorx>got another silly generic question
16:08<@Rubidium>generic answer: ask the question, don't ask whether you may ask it
16:10<Phazorx>what exactly happens in utomake when it sees " PKG_CHECK_MODULES([XML], [libxml-2.0], [], [ AC_ERROR([libxml-2.0 not found]) ])" ?
16:11<Phazorx>shouldnt it look into --libdir as configured and try t look for libxml-2.0 in it?
16:11<@Rubidium>I have absolutely no clue
16:11<@Rubidium>I dislike automake/autoconf
16:11<Phazorx>Rubidium: point was - question does not really relate to OpenTTD
16:11<Phazorx>i dislike it too... but that's wht been used
16:11<Phazorx>and i know i have what it need
16:12<Phazorx>just don know how to convince it to see it
16:12<Phazorx>since my ideas on where it might want it are quite exhausted by now
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16:13<@Rubidium>you're better of asking in the automake/autoconf channel or the channel of the application using it
16:15<Phazorx>app people are clueless
16:15<Phazorx>and i wonder if there is automake chan on freeode
16:16<__ln>you could try #gnu, but no guaranteed answer
16:16<__ln>and that doesn't change the fact that automake/autoconf is a terrible piece of *.
16:17<SpComb>build systems are
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16:19<thingwath>I guess it wants to tell you that it can't find pkgconfig file for libxml-2.0... :)
16:20<thingwath>it should be in /usr/lib/pkgconfig, or $PKG_CONFIG_PATH, if it is set
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16:23<Phazorx>thingwath: err... what do you mean "it" ?
16:23<Phazorx>the libxml stuff or the file?
16:23<thingwath>PKG_CONFIG_PATH
16:24<Phazorx>thereis no pkgconfig here
16:24*Phazorx is dealing with mingw
16:25<PeterT>yuk!
16:25<thingwath>ah, I'm sorry. :o)
16:25<@Rubidium>there's a pkgconfig for mingw too
16:25*Bjarni calls for a witchdoctor
16:25<@Bjarni>he is clearly possessed by something very foul
16:26<Phazorx>Rubidium: there isnt one at /usr/lib/pkgconfig
16:27<@Rubidium>well, you'd need to hunt it down and install it... but I am sure it exists
16:27<thingwath>Do you have some "pkg-config" binary?
16:27<Phazorx>thingwath: isnt it all just set of scripts?
16:27<@Rubidium>can't remember where it's though
16:27<Phazorx>thingwath: let's assume i have it and i found it
16:27<Phazorx>how that exactly helps me?
16:28<thingwath>Good question :)
16:28<Phazorx>cuz i still want to know what it does and how
16:28<thingwath>almost nothing
16:28<@Rubidium>whatever you're trying to compile looks for libxml and by the fact that you're asking here you've likely figured out it is really needed
16:28<Phazorx>Rubidium: i also got it
16:28<@Rubidium>so there's not really another option than to install pkgconfig and libxml's development stuff
16:29<Phazorx>along with sources includes and devel pakage
16:29<Phazorx>and installed/deplyed them all
16:29<Phazorx>i also made sure they are
16:29<thingwath>all it's going to do is to add something like -lxml2 to gcc parameters.
16:29<Phazorx>and passed libdir to .configure to cure it's blindness
16:29<Phazorx>yet it still doesnt see it
16:29<@Rubidium>pkgconfig is an application
16:30<@Rubidium>and that application is needed to make 'sense' out of the stuff in the pkgconfig directory
16:30<Phazorx>and how's that relevant to configure.ac ?
16:31<@Rubidium>because configure checks whether libxml is installed *via* pkgconfig
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16:31<@Rubidium>e.g. pkgconfig --modversion libxml which then tells the version of libxml, which it can evaluate to determine whether it's new enough
16:31<Phazorx>k i found pkg-config which probably is it
16:33<thingwath>you can try to run something like pkg-config --list-all | grep libxml :)
16:34<Phazorx>list-all returns nothing
16:35<Phazorx>i bet it is missing some config options
16:35<thingwath>do you have any *.pc file anywhere?
16:36<Phazorx>in few places
16:37<Phazorx>linxml included
16:37<Phazorx>so it only looks for *.pc
16:37<Phazorx>and does not check if libs are there actually?
16:37<thingwath>correct :)
16:37<Phazorx>tha's almsot as good as MS patch installer
16:37<Phazorx>which only checks folder presence and disregards content
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16:40<thingwath>so, make pkg-config look into the correct directory, and it should work
16:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18851 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Codechange: enumify number of steps needed to generate landscape
16:45<Phazorx>bah.. msys doesnt read /etc/profile
16:45<Phazorx>since when??
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17:11<Phazorx>brr
17:11<Phazorx>either i am going nuts or gcc reads between the lines
17:11<Phazorx>is "mcount" some system define var/function ?
17:12<SmatZ>Phazorx: use gcc -E and see the preprocessed output
17:13<Phazorx>SmatZ: i guess i'll need to reconfigure or add it to make file
17:14<Phazorx>but: http://paste2.org/p/618020
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17:16<SmatZ>Phazorx: mcount seems to be used by some profilers
17:16<Phazorx>err... there is "CPP = gcc -E" in make already
17:16<SmatZ>try removing all *.o files
17:17<Phazorx>oh yeah make clean would be a smart move
17:17<Phazorx>thanks
17:17<SmatZ>:)
17:18<planetmaker>hello
17:18<andythenorth>planetmaker: hi hi
17:19<@Bjarni>hello planetmaker
17:19<SmatZ>hello planetmaker
17:19<@Bjarni>SmatZ: beat you to say that :P
17:19<SmatZ>:-p
17:19<SmatZ>you pwn me
17:19<Yexo>hello planetmaker
17:19<Yexo>I'm last! :)
17:19<SmatZ>:)
17:19<planetmaker>:-) Those who are last will be the first? :-)
17:20<SmatZ>hehe
17:20<@Bjarni>yeah. Yexo always watch movies while he rewinds tapes for other people so he assumes being last in races is a good thing
17:21<PeterT>Phazorx: What system are you compiling on?
17:22<@Bjarni>he also believes that damage can be fixed by throwing out cannon balls from the damaged areas and make cannons eat the cannon balls
17:22<planetmaker>hehe
17:22<Yexo>you don't believe that? something must be wrong with you people
17:23<SmatZ>:-)
17:23<@Bjarni>movies can teach you a lot of stuff
17:23<@Bjarni>like did you know that they had cars in the viking era?
17:23<sawtooth>get to have the honeymoon before the wedding too. fun!
17:23<planetmaker>hehe. Just read a nice question today:
17:23<@Bjarni>I saw on TV that the vikings arrived in England and then a car passed by
17:24<planetmaker>if you play the moving of a falling <whatever> backwards. What direction does the acceleration seem to point at?
17:24<@Bjarni>hehe
17:24<planetmaker>well? :-)
17:24<Yexo>nice trick, still downwards ;)
17:24<planetmaker>exactly :-)
17:25<planetmaker>time invariance of physics laws
17:25<@Bjarni>speaking of acceleration and questions I read an interesting question yesterday
17:25<Phazorx>grr i'm just not having any luck with devtools tonight
17:25<Phazorx>now cmake is on strike
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17:25<@Bjarni>are you weightless if you are in the centre of the earth?
17:25<SmatZ>yes
17:25<@Bjarni>are you sure? :)
17:26<Phazorx>Makefile:65: *** multiple target patterns. Stop. << wth?
17:26<planetmaker>Bjarni: no. You're incinerated ;-)
17:26<SmatZ>Bjarni: well, g ~= 0, so I am (almost) weightless
17:26<planetmaker>But otherwise: SmatZ is right
17:26<SmatZ>hehe @ planetmaker
17:26<@Bjarni>Phazorx: tell it to stop drinking. That way it will reduce the number of targets to one :P
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17:27<Phazorx>Bjarni: center as in center of masses you weight is 0
17:27<@Bjarni>you are right
17:27<Phazorx>Bjarni: i never seen anything like that :/
17:27<murr5y>you'd have some strong forces pulling you outwards wouldn't you?
17:27-!-murr5y is now known as murr4y
17:27<SmatZ>hehe @ murr4y
17:27<murr4y>like the forces of EVIL
17:27<Phazorx>murr4y: which force?
17:27<planetmaker>Phazorx: even better: everywhere within a (homogenuous) shell you're weightless
17:27<@Bjarni>the force will always be with you
17:27<SmatZ>:)
17:27<Phazorx>ther will be a lot of air pressure keeping you at that point assuming atmosphere is present
17:28<Phazorx>planetmaker: in case if you can find a way to negate affect of other masses on you - may be?
17:28<@Bjarni>sure there will be a strong force away from the centre, but it's equal in all directions and the resulting force will be zero
17:28<Phazorx>Bjarni: whih is definition of cetre os masses :)
17:28<Yexo><Phazorx> ther will be a lot of air pressure keeping you at that point assuming atmosphere is present <- I'm wondering if that's true
17:29<SmatZ>yeah :)
17:29<planetmaker>Bjarni: that maybe disputed. Forces cancel before they take anywhere any effect as gravitation is a volume force
17:29<planetmaker>so no force is just as right
17:29<SmatZ>there's zero gravity, so there's "no point" for oxygen to be there
17:29<Phazorx>Yexo: imagine you at that point have a rope in your hand
17:29<SmatZ>I wonder where would be the highest air pressure
17:29<planetmaker>SmatZ: in the Earth's centre
17:29<@Bjarni>aren't we forgetting something?
17:30<Phazorx>ideal rope, and what if someone starts pulling - will you be objected by that force?
17:30<planetmaker>failing with that at the lowest point
17:30<@Rubidium>Phazorx: multiple target patterns usually means spaces in filenames
17:30<@Bjarni>how do we get to the centre of the planet in the first place?
17:30-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@219.104.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
17:30<Phazorx>Rubidium: thanks lemme check for that
17:30<Phazorx>that;s SDL_Mixer btw
17:30<planetmaker>Bjarni: ask Jules Vernes ;-)
17:30<SmatZ>:-)
17:30<@Bjarni>:D
17:30<Phazorx>Bjarni: actually getting in there is kinda easy
17:30<@Bjarni>I spoke with him yesterday
17:30<@Bjarni>err
17:31<Yexo>Phazorx: of course, same effect that if you're pulled in water you have to pull harder then if you'd be pulled in air
17:31<@Bjarni>about him
17:31<Phazorx>getting out would be nearly impossivle
17:31<PeterT>That's what she said, Phazorx.
17:31<planetmaker>Phazorx: getting there is not kinda easy. You melt before you do. As does any material
17:31<murr4y>theoretical physics++
17:31<Phazorx>Yexo: that isnt my point, point being you feel that force, noe replace rope by a string
17:31<planetmaker>and cutting through solid, 5000°C Ni-Fe alloy... doesn't sound like fun
17:31<SmatZ>hmm what's the temperature in the centre of earth?
17:31<SmatZ>... :)
17:32<planetmaker>5 ... 6k °C
17:32<Phazorx>planetmaker: we sortf of negate other physics
17:32<planetmaker>depending upon the un-established eq. of states
17:32<Phazorx>it would be too hard to stay alive due to other things as well :)
17:32<@Bjarni>we should all be aware that planetmaker is the real expert in this area. After all he construct planets for a living, right?
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17:32<@Bjarni>how many have you made so far?
17:32<planetmaker>hehe. Indeed ;-)
17:33<@Bjarni>and can I order one?
17:33<planetmaker>sure. Delivery times are a bit long, though.
17:33<planetmaker>5 mega years ok with you?
17:33<@Bjarni>I want a planet without stupid people and I have given up on terraforming this one into that goal
17:33<planetmaker>shipping is another issue.
17:33<@Bjarni>use FedEx
17:34<@Bjarni>they claim to deliver everything
17:34<Phazorx>Rubidium: http://paste2.org/p/618045 that's te line it complains about
17:34<SmatZ>Bjarni: there are several known planes without any people at all
17:34<Phazorx>it is autotool generated tho
17:34<SmatZ>*planets
17:35<@Bjarni>true
17:35<planetmaker>I'd still recommend either Mars or maybe a moon. Either the Moon, or Enceladus.
17:35<@Bjarni>I guess I needed to specify temperature and gravity should be acceptable too
17:35<@Rubidium>Phazorx: so there's likely a space in $(objects)
17:36<Phazorx>$(objects): $(SHELL) $(auxdir)/mkinstalldirs $@
17:36<@Bjarni>why would you sell me Enceladus?
17:36<Phazorx>nm
17:36<planetmaker>Bjarni: liquid water?
17:36<@Bjarni>you fucked up your house there and polluted it big time?
17:36<Phazorx>OBJECTS = $(objects)/effect_position.lo $(objects)/effect_stereoreverse.lo $(objects)/effects_internal.lo $(objects)/load_aiff.lo $(objects)/load_voc.lo $(objects)/mixer.lo $(objects)/music.lo $(objects)/wavestream.lo $(objects)/common.lo $(objects)/ctrlmode.lo $(objects)/filter.lo $(objects)/instrum.lo $(objects)/mix.lo $(objects)/output.lo $(objects)/playmidi.lo $(objects)/readmidi.lo $(objects)/resample.lo $(objects)/sdl_a.lo
17:36<Phazorx>$(objects)/sdl_c.lo $(objects)/tables.lo $(objects)/timidity.lo $(objects)/native_midi_common.lo $(objects)/native_midi_mac.lo $(objects)/native_midi_macosx.lo $(objects)/native_midi_win32.lo $(objects)/dynamic_ogg.lo $(objects)/load_ogg.lo $(objects)/music_ogg.lo
17:37<Phazorx>ouch
17:37<Phazorx>sorry
17:37<Phazorx>that came out much longer than i expected
17:37<__ln>english only
17:37*Bjarni slaps Phazorx with an imaginary yet painful trout
17:37*Phazorx feels ashamed
17:38<Phazorx>dont see spaces there tho :/
17:39<@Rubidium>OBJECTS != objects
17:40<planetmaker>http://www.physorg.com/news165068514.html <-- Bjarni :-)
17:40<Phazorx>that's actually true...
17:40<Phazorx>but then it makes even less sense
17:40<Phazorx>objects = build
17:40<Phazorx>i should echo that line
17:40-!-AC6000 [~AC6000@242-174.126-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
17:41<Phazorx>http://paste2.org/p/618054
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17:57<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18852 /trunk/src/lang/hebrew.txt: -Update: tweak date formatting of Hebrew
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17:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18853 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: apply coding style to GenWorld's enums, structs and typedefs
18:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18854 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange [FS#3539]: unconflict acceleration type as 'status' and rail property (Terhken)
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18:05*AC6000 glares at Sacro <_<
18:06*Bjarni reserves room for AC6000 at a mental hospital
18:06<AC6000><_<
18:07<AC6000>haha, very funny
18:07<@Bjarni>well a girl was once interested in Sacro and she ended up in a mental hospital
18:07<SmatZ>oh :(
18:07<SmatZ>such a sad story
18:08<@Bjarni>it's an open question if she was interested in him because she was disturbed (his version) or because of his treatment
18:08<AC6000>no, its not that, he owes me a game of ottd <.<
18:08<@Bjarni>oh
18:08<@Bjarni>lol
18:09<SpComb>what can you do to get someone to owe you a game of ottd?
18:09<@Bjarni>pay them to play
18:09<AC6000>xD
18:09<SmatZ>Sacro's got a treatment?
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18:09<SmatZ>not that I would wonder...
18:09<SpComb>Sacro sues Bjarni for slander
18:10<AC6000>yea, hold him over a cliff till he says uncle :P
18:10<@Bjarni>SpComb: nahh.... if he should have a go at that, then I shouldn't just be telling what he told in the channel
18:10<Sacro>?
18:10<andythenorth>this channel has gone a bit #tycoon :|
18:10<@Bjarni>Sacro: girl+mental hospital
18:10<Sacro>oh that story
18:10<Sacro>that's a long time ago
18:11-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-194-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...]
18:11<SpComb>then one requires a link to the logs as evidence
18:11<@Bjarni>how is she now?
18:11<Sacro>god
18:11<SpComb>tsk
18:11<Sacro>have i been here for 5 years
18:11<@Bjarni>do you have any idea?
18:11<Sacro>that's quite depressing
18:11<@Bjarni>I'm not sure you told that story when it happened
18:11<Sacro>I was semi-regular on irc back then
18:12<@Bjarni>though it's 2010. I started working on this in 2004
18:13<@Bjarni>you showed up somewhat early
18:13<@peter1138>we've all grown up now
18:13<@Bjarni>yeah you could have been here for 5 years
18:13<@peter1138>or at least, got older
18:13<@Bjarni>grown up.... and we still gather for a game... :p
18:14<SpComb>grown up version of TTD
18:14<Sacro>with single way signals
18:14<@Bjarni>didn't know what I got myself into when I "just wanted to try this game" and worked a bit on compiling it
18:14<Sacro>who'd've thunk it
18:14<@Rubidium>thunks are bad!
18:15<SpComb>my tt-forums account is older than Bjarni's
18:15<@Bjarni>most likely
18:15<@Rubidium>especially when badness with thunks fails compiling OpenTTD
18:16<@Rubidium>now I reckon there are about 2, maybe 3, persons in this channel that have any clue what I'm babbling about
18:17<SmatZ>:-p
18:18*andythenorth bedtime
18:18<SmatZ>night, andythenorth
18:18<@peter1138>long gone are the days of thunking from 32 to 16 bit mode...
18:19<SpComb>everyone's who's read the Old New Thing knows what thunks are
18:21<Yexo>wasn't hard to find, but I still have no idea what a "thunk" is
18:21<Yexo>I do get Rubidium now though ;)
18:21*SmatZ knowns "thunk" as "part of a diff file"
18:22<Yexo>hmm, not a certain gcc lto bug?
18:22<SmatZ>also, my dictionary modifies "thunk" to "thank" and then translates that...
18:22<SmatZ>Yexo: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=42451 ?
18:23<Yexo>SmatZ: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=41663
18:23<SmatZ>yeah, I heard "thunk" in that context, too
18:23<@Rubidium>yay... Yexo found it :)
18:23<SmatZ>hehe, right :)
18:24<SmatZ>ok, I am broken :) I don't remember bugreports I am watching...
18:24<Yexo>I still don't know what a "thunk" in that case is, but oh well, enough random searching
18:24<@Rubidium>http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=41602 <- still the same bug as 41663, but that was what I was babbling 'bout
18:25<SmatZ>hmm OTTD still doesn't link for me with --enable-lto :(
18:25<SmatZ>I hope lto-related bugs will be fixed before release of 1.0.0 and 4.5.0
18:25<SmatZ>or we might receive some bugreports :-/
18:25<@Rubidium>oh, we'll close them as duplicates of gcc bugs :)
18:26<SmatZ>hehe :)
18:26<@Rubidium>but regarding lto and trunk: only PR42451 happens for me; it links fine
18:27<@Rubidium>but then I have checking disabled
18:28*SmatZ doesn't even try it with enabled checking :)
18:29<SmatZ>http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=42430 strangely, gcc guys are closing ICEs as "INVALID"
18:30<SmatZ>luckily, that code doesn't appear in OTTD code anymore
18:32<SmatZ>http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/lto.txt my "make log", gcc compiled without checking
18:33<SmatZ>C++ <-> C compatibility is also "oficially" broken for lto...
18:34*AC6000 resumes the fore-mentioned glaring <_<
18:34<SmatZ>:)
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18:42<Phazorx>Rubidium: for that multiple targets issue - is it possible the damn line is just too long?
18:42<Terkhen>good night
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18:49<@Rubidium>hmm, multiple colons on one line... that's not good either I fear
19:01<Phazorx>Rubidium: i sort of echoed it
19:01<Phazorx>but it fails even on single item
19:01<Phazorx>build/effect_position.lo: ./effect_position.c /bin/sh ./libtool --mode=compile gcc -g -O2 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -Dmain=SDL_main -Ic:/mingw/include/SDL -DWAV_MUSIC -DMID_MUSIC -DUSE_TIMIDITY_MIDI -I./timidity -DUSE_NATIVE_MIDI -I./native_midi -DOGG_MUSIC -MMD -MT $@ -c $< -o $@ \
19:01<Phazorx>that already has "multiple targets in it" apparently
19:02<Phazorx>could be -Ic:/mingw/include/SDL part
19:02<Phazorx>it does look weird to me
19:02<Phazorx>but mingw apparently doesnt mind paths like that
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19:12<Phazorx>err
19:12<Phazorx>in same damn makefile
19:12<Phazorx>$(OBJECTS:.lo=.d) << is that a proper var name?
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20:01<PeterT>win32 binary link for r18849 is broken :-(
20:02<Phazorx>http://paste2.org/p/618211
20:02<Phazorx>does this looks kosher?
20:02<Yexo>PeterT: what link is broken?
20:03<PeterT>r18849 win32 binary
20:03<Yexo>there shouldn't be a link to the win32 binary for r18849
20:03<PeterT>why?
20:03<Yexo>because the nightly failed to compile
20:03<PeterT>why couldn't it compile today?
20:03<Yexo>due to some cf problems
20:03<PeterT>cf?
20:03<PeterT>what is that short for?
20:03<Yexo>compile farm
20:04<PeterT>oh
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20:05<PeterT>where is the compile farm located?
20:07<Eoin>compile land#
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20:18<PeterT>nooo
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20:33<gathers>to add another industry-related news item, do I have to add a StringID to IndustrySpec in industrytype.h, and then change a LOT of stuff in build_industry.h, or is there a better way?
20:33-!-SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:34<gathers>I want industries to warn ahead if they are about to close, I have a quick patch that kinda works already, except for adding the string with the news text :P
20:43<gathers>ah, nevermind, I just found out I can use the string name from lang/english.txt when calling AddNewsItem() :)
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21:21<AC6000>._.
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22:12<AC6000>http://www.hostthenpost.org/uploads/8d0d9963f7ad1a0a53a2b2ffb44a106c.jpg ._.
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22:12<PeterT>it's
22:13<PeterT>a train O_O
22:13<AC6000>thats R/C controlled :P
22:16<AC6000>thats what the car in front of the locos is for
22:18<PeterT>Night
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 18 00:00:14 2010