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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-18

---Logopened Mon Jan 18 00:00:14 2010
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03:43<Terkhen>good morning
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05:02<planetmaker>is that enough help in order to find the window? ;-) ^
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05:05<Phazorx>yup thanks pm
05:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18855 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: record compiler name and version in the crash log
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05:38<Phazorx>anyone with mingw clue can help me with this:
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07:09<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18856 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: do not call GetSlopeZInCorner() when there's no fence to draw
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07:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18857 /trunk/src/ (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp station_map.h): -Codechange: don't rely on the fact that all airports are rectangular
07:36<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18858 /trunk/src/ (disaster_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use IsAirportTile where possible
07:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18859 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rename glwp_modes to GenenerateLandscapeWindowMode
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09:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18860 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: introduce a wrapper to get an hangar tile from a station
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09:54<Phazorx>any cmake users?
09:56<@Rubidium>I reckon most Gentoo users are (indirectly) cmake users, but I don't think that's what you're looking for
09:57<Phazorx>Rubidium: how to tame the beast basically
09:57<@Rubidium>well... I have absolutely no idea
09:57<Phazorx>2 particular questis are how can i emaulate ./configure --prefix behavior
09:58<Phazorx>and how can i pass -pg to compiler with it
09:58<@Rubidium>you're better off asking in a channel dedicated to cmake
09:58<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18861 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp): -Doc: more doxygen documentation in genworld files
09:59<Phazorx>Rubidium: if there would be one with active people in it..
10:00<@Rubidium>try a kde development channel; it's using cmake
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10:01<Maedhros>Phazorx: i think you're looking for CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX
10:02<Maedhros>Phazorx: which you can specify as something like `cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/local`
10:03<KenjiE20>I've seen it as -DPREFIX=/path/to/install
10:04<Phazorx>Maedhros: i tried set(prefix blah), prefix=blah cmake and cmake prefix=blah
10:04<Phazorx>neither worked
10:04<Phazorx>let's try -d one now
10:04<KenjiE20>-dprefix is the one I used for building weechat-dev
10:06<Phazorx>also... is there a dirrective to update the config?
10:06<Phazorx>because rm CMakeCache each time is kinda silly
10:07<Phazorx>-DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX worked
10:08<Phazorx>how about compiler flags?
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10:10<Maedhros>Phazorx: CMAKE_C_FLAGS and CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS
10:10<Maedhros>this page might help:
10:10<Phazorx>Maedhros: i read that one
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10:11<Phazorx>it ha lots of info but it evades me how can i use most of it to my advantage
10:11<Phazorx>as in do i use SET or -D woth these
10:12<Phazorx>i guess -D is safer way since it just shown it works
10:12<Maedhros>you can use both, i think
10:12<Phazorx>Maedhros: set (blah) and blah cmake ... both failed before i asked here :|
10:13<Phazorx>i did do it slighty different tho
10:13<Phazorx>since it supports different build modes i tried to force debug build while specifying debug complile flags
10:13<Phazorx>so it could have failed on either of these 2 spots :/
10:16<Phazorx>there is no *FLAG* in makefile at all
10:17<PeterT>jesus you're still compiling that?
10:17<Phazorx>PeterT: what do you mean that?
10:17<PeterT>Weren't you doing this yesterday?
10:19<Phazorx>compiling ys
10:19<Phazorx>same thing no
10:19<Phazorx>and i tell you more
10:19<Phazorx>most of people you see in this chan
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10:19<Phazorx>been compiling for about 1/3 of their lives!
10:22<PeterT>Hi Terkhen
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10:30*Maedhros cries
10:31<Maedhros>10 Kelvin does not equal 7.27 degrees C
10:31<Maedhros>how on earth did they miss this one?
10:31<blathijs>Hm? Another space shuttle crash? :-)
10:32<Maedhros>trying to tell our diffractometer control software the temperature of a sample
10:32<Maedhros>at least specifying it in centigrade appears to work
10:33<planetmaker>? @ Maedhros
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10:34<Eddi|zuHause>they're only like 260 degrees off :p
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>that's nothing in astronomical scale :p
10:35<jonty-comp>it's nothing in a positive temperature astronomical scale
10:35<jonty-comp>but it's quite a lot in a negative temperature astronomical scale
10:35<jonty-comp>Maedhros could be working with superconductors!
10:35<@Rubidium>yeah, 260 degrees... that's like
10:35<@Rubidium>@calc (360-260)/360*2*3.14
10:35<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 1.74444444444
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10:35<@Rubidium>not much
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>exactly what i'm saying. it's not even _one_ full circle :p
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10:37<Eddi|zuHause>hm... our "weather persistent" cables might not be as persistent as one would like...
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>at least our outdoor cables yanked out the main fuse...
10:39<@Rubidium>"weather persistent" != "excavator persistent"
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it's melting outside, and apparently water got into one of the connector boxes...
10:41<planetmaker> <-- just to tell everyone here: all those downloads here violate the GPL
10:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18862 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3544]: don't pass AI strings through iconv
10:42<SpComb>planetmaker: lack of COPYING or incomplete source?
10:42<planetmaker>(and they come w/o the openttdd/w.grf, too
10:42<planetmaker>only openttd binary and lang dir
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10:42<@Rubidium>lack of COPYING; I told them, but I never got a reaction from them
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10:42<@Rubidium>hmm, maybe that's logical because they're on my ignore list
10:43<planetmaker>I just checked. He claims that GPL doesn't require at as his download page has *somewhere* a copyright notice
10:43<planetmaker>I didn't see it, though
10:43<SpComb>because the lack of the COPYING isn't really worth killing someone over
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>"All the files in the download section are protected by the: GNU General Public License Version 2, June 1991. Which can be read here." <--
10:43<SpComb>there's a link to it, yes
10:43<SpComb>(the changelog as well?)
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>but lack of source is a problem
10:44<planetmaker>it's in fine print.
10:44<planetmaker>yea, just saw it.
10:44<@Rubidium>okay.. now...
10:44<planetmaker>well. Lack of source... can be requested, I guess
10:44<@Rubidium> <- where is the GPL notice on that page?
10:44<planetmaker>exactly ^
10:44<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: well, there's the .patch, which is better than a plain source zip, imo
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>where is the patch?
10:44<Yexo><planetmaker> well. Lack of source... can be requested, I guess <- click on "0.7.5C patch" to download it
10:44<PeterT>under "Patch"
10:44<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: below the changelog
10:45<PeterT>you have to click on it, and it will show
10:45<@Rubidium>SpComb: it's ofcourse hoping that they based it on 0.7.5 and not something different
10:45<SpComb>of course, there's the question of does the binary correspond to the patch
10:46<SpComb>but come on, there isn't anything wrong as such with providing modified binaries of GPL code for download
10:46<PeterT>I can tell you that the linux binary *is* based off of 0.7.5, and it *does* correspond to the patch
10:46<Terkhen>how can you check that?
10:46<SpComb>sure, it'd be nice if it was a proper bundle, but that's a style issue
10:46<PeterT>Terkhen: I made it ;-)
10:47<PeterT>But Luukland took out the necesarry files :-(
10:47<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> well. Lack of source... can be requested, I guess <-- it's not the point that it can be requested, there must be a _written offer_ to request the source [or a source download]
10:47<Terkhen>that's not an answer to my question
10:47<SpComb>there's a lot of OpenTTD binaries out there with only a .patch provided
10:47<planetmaker>right. There's no text whatsoever, though
10:47<PeterT>Terkhen: I don't understand?
10:48<PeterT>I guess I can't check it, but I did make it, then I sent it to luukland
10:48<Yexo><SpComb> there's a lot of OpenTTD binaries out there with only a .patch provided <- that's a corner case, but generally accepted as always uploading the complete source would be a waste of resources
10:48<planetmaker>Providing the patch file is IMO sufficient.
10:49<jonty-comp>so long as you make it obvious where you can get the rest of the source from, I reckon
10:49<@Rubidium>technically providing the patch is not sufficient
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>providing the patch is not sufficient in itself
10:49<SpComb>practically, it is
10:49<jonty-comp>technically not many things are sufficient :P
10:50<SpComb>providing a copy of the GPL is also a requirement, but nobody really cares
10:50<PeterT>Well, usually
10:50<SpComb>I'd tell them to get their act together and publish a proper bundle, but that's their problem
10:50<@Rubidium>SpComb: actually, on the forum I usually remove stuff that doesn't have the COPYING file
10:51<SpComb>how does that benefit anyone? /:
10:51<Yexo>the packager learns to package the required files
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: it teaches them to do it properly next time
10:51<jonty-comp>or it teaches them to not bother at all
10:51<jonty-comp>which might be better anyway
10:52<SpComb>removing anything that isn't a bundle would make more sense
10:52<PeterT>No, it wouldn't
10:52<SpComb>but you could also think of the .zip there as a patch - apply it on top of your 0.7.5 install, and presto, you get an openttd.exe, a COPYING, etc :)
10:53<PeterT>I used to only upload my /bin dir with a COPYING
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10:53*SpComb uploads himself to somewhere else
10:54<@Rubidium>SpComb: but the page claims that downloading OpenTTD from anywhere else is dangerous
10:54<PeterT>Rubidium: Which page is that?
10:54<Bluelight>Yeah.. :p
10:55<PeterT>it says that?
10:55<Bluelight>All binaries officially released by us should only be downloaded from this website! If you downloaded from another location, it could be possible that the file didn't came from us, it might possibly contain dangerous modifications and the file should therefor not be trusted!
10:55<@Rubidium>also the manual breaks quite hard when using e.g. 0.6.2 as 'base' (i.e. Debian Lenny)
10:56<Terkhen>it does, I suppose they mean their lots-of-floats version and not stable OpenTTD
10:57<@Rubidium>Terkhen: that can't be it; the archive does only have the binary, not openttd[wd].grf *.obg etc.
10:59<blathijs>Bluelight: s/came/come/
10:59<Terkhen>that does not seem very trusty
10:59<Bluelight>blathijs: ?
11:00<blathijs>Bluelight: There's a typo in that text
11:01<@Rubidium>as 0.7.5C needs the .obg files and 0.6.2 ("current") doesn't have those, 0.7.5C doesn't work if you base your work on 0.6.2
11:01<Bluelight>Yeah it's not mine..:p
11:01<planetmaker>well. he removed the files. Or it seems so
11:01*Rubidium wonders whether double past becomes present
11:02<Bluelight>Can someone tell me about the OpenTTD versions?
11:02<planetmaker>Rubidium, was gone = is going then ?
11:02<Bluelight>Is 0.7.5 better then beta 1.0?
11:02<PeterT>Is 0.3.0 better than 0.4.0?
11:02<planetmaker>1.0.0 is beta :-P
11:02<@Rubidium>depends on your point of view
11:03<Noldo>stability or features?
11:03<Bluelight>And beta means unfinished or testing?
11:03<Yexo>1.0.0-beta is newer, but 0.7.5 is more stable I think
11:03<PeterT>I haven't experienced a crash with 0.7.5
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>each added feature increases the chance of instability, so 0.3 is better than 0.4 is better than 0.7 is better than 1.0
11:03<Yexo>hehe :)
11:04<Yexo>that'd be true if we'd keep backporting fixes to all releases
11:04<Bluelight>Well arn't the coders supposed to fix instabillity?
11:04<insulfrog>gotta go
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11:05<Eddi|zuHause>darn coders! doing nothing all day!
11:05<Yexo>Bluelight: of course, but when introducing new features sometimes a new bug is introduced
11:05<Bluelight>Hmm.. Ok
11:05<Bluelight>Have anybody tried FreeCiv?
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>each time a bug is fixed, two new ones are introduced :p
11:06<Phazorx>Bluelight: i did
11:06<Noldo>Bluelight: we played a game at work about a year ago
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>[corollary of murphy's law]
11:06<Bluelight>Ok, I'm in need of professional help here..
11:06<planetmaker>Bluelight, try freecol ;-)
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>since i played civ 4, i don't like the game mechanics of civ 2 anymore...
11:06<Terkhen>I tried it two years ago, I played a few games but then I discovered OpenTTD
11:07<planetmaker>hehe @ Terkhen
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>freecol is nice, yes
11:07<planetmaker>they have an especially awesome intro screen
11:07<Phazorx>i like c-evo more than rest of cov clones actually
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>freeciv has a rubbish interface imho...
11:07<planetmaker>some artist really let his or her creativity run freely there :-)
11:07<Bluelight>Ok, first of all.. Is it normal that when I try to move a unit it is sometimes stuck? So I have to unselect it and select it again and then it works?
11:08<Terkhen>I haven't tried any civs beyond II and freeciv, do they "lose the magic"?
11:08<planetmaker>Bluelight, ask in the freeciv channel?
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: civ 4 is awesome...
11:08<Bluelight>And why is it that I did the tutorial and when I got my firs sea vessel, the enemy had modern battleships? lol I haveno chance against those..
11:09<Bluelight>Is there such channel?
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: it has extreme modding abilities
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>things might get very complex if you just dive into it, though ;)
11:09<Terkhen>and it has a good mod community?
11:09<Bluelight>Where do I find freeciv channel?
11:09<@Rubidium>gheheh :)
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: or so...
11:10<planetmaker>Bluelight, I once stomped the AI with tanks and artillery and the AI had like phalanx. So... it's possible
11:10<PeterT>Does mor have a life? :
11:11<Sacro>tje celts, nice
11:11<PeterT>How did you manage that, Rubidium? :-)
11:12<planetmaker>loool @ screenshot :-P
11:12<Terkhen>I will try civ4 then... I miss civilization games, but I'm too used to modern interfaces to enjoy them anymore
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: typical dailywtf material ;)
11:13<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: exactly why I'm not sending it to them
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: can probably get civ4 complete (inclusive addons) for 10€
11:13<PeterT>Hi peter1138
11:17<murr4y>hi peters
11:18<PeterT>peter1138: What did you want?
11:18<Terkhen>I'll probably include it in my next order
11:18<@peter1138>oh, it was a link
11:18<@peter1138>it highlighted me, hurr
11:19<@peter1138>you will be
11:19<@peter1138>when i think of some punishment
11:19<PeterT>How did Luuland upload there?
11:20<planetmaker>he didn't, I'm sure ;-)
11:21<PeterT>petern likes to upload luukland's patches O_O
11:21<@peter1138>is there a problem with that?
11:22<@peter1138>just as well, as it doesn't seem to be available from the original site any more
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12:28<PeterT>somebody, clever remark:
12:29<Goulp>what's up PeterT ?
12:30*Goulp has some Muxy inside
12:30<PeterT>somebody, make a clever remark to that
12:31<planetmaker>he's on my ignore :-P
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12:35<Terkhen>soon he will have the honour of being the first person in mine
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12:45<planetmaker>Terkhen: he is the first in mine. Or rather: the only one
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12:48<Terkhen>I have been considered to ignore other annoying people in the past... but this guy is different; I can't stand a single post from him, and there is like 50 every day
12:49<@Rubidium>that's why everyone that starts a conversation with him on IRC earns a in my list
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12:51<@Rubidium>but I agree that the forum 'foo' thing is totally inadequate
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13:01<PeterT>Terkhen: You don't happen to have a binary for improved road acceleration, do you?
13:01<Terkhen>I don't have a diff either
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13:12<rait>got a freeze while exiting. should i file a bug?
13:13<@Rubidium>rait: are you using Ubuntu 9.10?
13:13<rait>windows server 2008 r2
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13:14<rait>should be same as windows 7
13:14<@Rubidium>never heard about OpenTTD freezing on close on Windows
13:14<Terkhen>I use windows 7, I never had any freezes after exiting
13:15<@Rubidium>rait: freeze as in "takes a while before finally closing" or as in "doesn't close ever at all"?
13:15<rait>well. i havent killed it, what should i do to help resolve it?
13:15<rait>has been the same for ~5 min
13:16<@Rubidium>do you by any chance have MSVC installed?
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13:16<rait>visual c?
13:17<sawtooth>cat :)
13:17<@Rubidium>rait: yes
13:18<rait>got c++ redistributables
13:19<@Rubidium>glx: how can you kill OpenTTD in a way that it makes the crash.dmp?
13:19<rait>i can dump it from task manager ...
13:19<@Rubidium>rait: is this the first time you use OpenTTD on windows 2008?
13:19<rait>work's like a charm most of the time
13:19<rait>meaning no crashes or other problems before
13:20<@Rubidium>rait: killing it in the task manager doesn't trigger the crash dump generation, which we need to figure out where it hangs
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13:20<rait>in task manager, there is an option to dump the process
13:20<@Rubidium>without that, and without reproducability, I see absolutely no way to get clue what the problem is
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13:21<@Rubidium>rait: hmm, don't know that option (and thus don't know whether it's useful)
13:21<+glx>Rubidium: release build with alt-0 crash enabled, I see no other way
13:21<@Rubidium>glx: that won't help... alt-0 only works because that codepath is ran
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13:23<@Rubidium>rait: please try the dump thing and see what that results in
13:23<@Rubidium>oh, what version of OpenTTD are you using?
13:23<rait>it creates a 112MB dump file
13:23<rait>1.0.0-beta2, 64bit
13:24<@Rubidium>can you DCC that to me?
13:24<@peter1138>112MB? yikes
13:25<@Rubidium>peter1138: yeah, probably a full dump of all the memory :(
13:25<rait>can't i use rapidshare or smth? not sure my client can do DCC
13:25<@Rubidium>please try DCC first
13:26<@Rubidium>rapidshare, for some reason, isn't that rapid for me
13:28<@Rubidium>hmm, okay that doesn't seem to work :(... then... rapidshare it is
13:29<rait>i also got a web domain, would that be ok?
13:29<@Rubidium>yup, as long as I can download it from there
13:32<rait>1,5h ...
13:32<@peter1138>is it not zippable?
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13:33<rait>good point, trying 7zip
13:35<@Rubidium>oh, 1,5h... then I can do some other stuff first :)
13:35<rait>miracle of compression. 19M, 20min
13:35<planetmaker>I can compress better. Is lossless compression required? ;-)
13:35<rait>i also got a savegame, made seconds before freeze. might that help?
13:36<fjb>You can compress every file to the size of 1 Byte. :-)
13:36<planetmaker>rait: in case of doubt: yes
13:38<rait>any other stuff i should poke the still running process before killing it?
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13:39<rait>screenshot of a frozen process??
13:40<+glx>the best would be start msvc and attach it but I guess you cannot
13:40<planetmaker>if it doesn't make sense: then no. The usual crash produces one. Whether it's useful... maybe sometimes
13:40<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but there IS no crash
13:41<planetmaker>Rubidium: yes, I know :-) That's why I proposed to MAKE a screenshot :-)
13:41<planetmaker>if there's no usuable UI anymore... oh well.
13:41<rait>i got something called windbg installed ...
13:42<PeterT>what does that do?
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13:42<rait>debugger for kernel dumps
13:45<+glx>I think you'll need the pdb
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18863 /trunk/src/lang/ (hebrew.txt polish.txt spanish.txt ukrainian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hebrew - 38 changes by dnd_man
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: polish - 1 changes by xaxa
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Madvin
13:46<rait>i got the "Debugging Tools for Windows" package
13:47<rait>no reference to pdb in help
13:48<@peter1138>it's short for wind bag
13:48<+glx>pdb contains symbols
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13:49<rait>as in debugging symbols? the ones that get stripped on compiling?
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13:51<rait>savegame, screenshot, compressed dump
13:52<PeterT>download is quite fast, thanks
13:52<rait>anything else i can do?
13:53*glx getting the 7z (to see if it's usable)
13:57<rait>let me know, gotta run in 10min
13:57<PeterT>glx: You said you had the Express Editions?
13:57<+glx>it's usable it seems
13:57<+glx>PeterT: yes
13:57<+glx>and ?
13:58<PeterT>How can you debug/tell if its usable with Express editions?
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13:58<PeterT>my MSVC just complained about it being x64
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13:58<PeterT>and that it can't do anything with x64
13:58<jonty-comp>Express doesn't like x64 so much
13:58<+glx>mine does since yesterday :)
13:58<PeterT>How so?
13:59<jonty-comp>I couldn't even get it to build
13:59<jonty-comp>oh, hmm
13:59<jonty-comp>well, there's not much point to me building in x64 anyway, it's hardly faster on this PC and I doubt openttd is going to use more than 3GB RAM :P
13:59<+glx>seems to be in sound driver shutdown
14:00<+glx> <-- the trace from rait dmp
14:03<rait>anything else i can give you?
14:04<+glx>I don't think we can get much info
14:06<PeterT>lol "flyswatter"
14:06<rait>ok. i'll be back in 3h, if there's anything else, write it here
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14:11<gathers>Quick sanity check; is there any setting to make openttd warn "about a year" ahead before an industry closes? or is that a feature from some grf files?
14:12<PeterT>I take it you've seen BlueEagle_nl's reply
14:13<@Rubidium>hmm, so it hangs in Windows' code. Looks like we can't do much about that :(
14:23<andythenorth>umm neob is in 'my' thread :x
14:24<PeterT>yes he is
14:24<andythenorth>I want him to piss off
14:24<PeterT>Forum report button?
14:25<andythenorth>he's not actually doing *anything* wrong. he's just annoying
14:25<andythenorth>it's kind of unfair to dislike the guy
14:26<PeterT>which thread is this?
14:26<PeterT>FISH release thread or FIRS?
14:26<andythenorth>FISH release
14:26*andythenorth refrains from flaming. I want a nice clean thread :P
14:27<PeterT>so? andythenorth when is 32bpp fish coming out? Huh? when? come on... when?
14:28<andythenorth>from me? never
14:28<andythenorth>however it is GPL
14:29<PeterT>I was joking
14:29<PeterT>but ok
14:29<andythenorth>PeterT: I get that you were joking ;)
14:30<PeterT>but you felt it was needed to provide a real answer?
14:32<PeterT>why doesn't openttd have custom bridge heads?
14:32<planetmaker>*someone* as usual was a lazy guy
14:33<@peter1138>and then some plonker thinks it needs to be made with models and renders *sigh*
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14:34<Terkhen>someone should force *someone* to finish some of his projects
14:37<Terkhen>I don't see the relation between custom bridge heads and models and renders
14:41<andythenorth>the funny thing is, FISH is almost entirely based on over-painting 3D models. So some kind of 32BPP would actually be trivial. I'm just not going to do it
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14:45<Terkhen>coding stuff again is boring
14:45<planetmaker>fish'n ships
14:46<Terkhen>let's see if I can have the new improved acceleration for road vehicles today
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14:48<PeterT>andythenorth: I still don't know what BANDIT is, other than Rubidium's description
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14:55*andythenorth stupid internet connection
14:57<andythenorth>PeterT: BANDIT is a platform for producing truck sets....or it's vapourware with a silly acronym
14:58<andythenorth>depends if I can recruit Dan MacK (among others) to draw for it, and whether I get fed up of creating newgrfs
14:58<PeterT>I see
14:58<PeterT>well, not really, but I can wait for a GRF
14:58<andythenorth>the point is you could wait for several grfs
14:58<andythenorth>trucks the world over are mostly the same
14:58<andythenorth>with trains we can combine sets
14:58<andythenorth>but articulated RVs can't be combined in game
14:59<andythenorth>they can however be combined at the grf encoding / makefile stage
14:59<andythenorth>allowing for a Euro truck set, a US truck set etc. from the same codebase and reusing sprites
15:00<planetmaker>you got too many plans, andy ;-)
15:01<andythenorth>I got too little time :)
15:01<andythenorth>you should see my unfinished Lego projects :o
15:04<andythenorth>(that one is finished)
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15:17<Eoin>FISH is certainly coming on Andel
15:17<Eoin>uhm fail
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16:38<@Bjarni>hello Hackykid
16:38<@Bjarni>!seen Hackykid
16:39<Hackykid>heya Bjarni
16:40*Hackykid got bitten by the transport tycoon bug again
16:40<PeterT>Bjarni: @seen Hackykid
16:40<Hackykid>stupid addictive game :-p
16:40<PeterT>And Hello Bjarni
16:40<@Bjarni>@ it is
16:40<@Bjarni>but now it's too late
16:41<@Bjarni>he already said something
16:42<PeterT>it's not to late
16:42<PeterT>@seen Hackykid
16:42<@DorpsGek>PeterT: Hackykid was last seen in #openttd 13 seconds ago: <Hackykid> awwww
16:42<@Rubidium>Bjarni: @seen fails anyway because it's logs were trashed fairly recently
16:42<Hackykid>don't think it matters anyway, last time i was in #openttd it was still on freenode i think
16:43<__ln>@seen Tron
16:43<@DorpsGek>__ln: I have not seen Tron.
16:43<andythenorth>@seen Transformers, Revenge of the Fallen
16:43<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: seen [<channel>] <nick>
16:44<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18864 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix [FS#3532]: town noise population settings could not be changed in-game
16:44<Terkhen>good night
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16:51<SpComb>boo, why can't a company buy up 100% of another company? :(
16:52<@Rubidium>huh, AFAIK you can
16:52<@Rubidium>although maybe not in MP
16:52<SpComb>that's what I was guessing
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16:52<SpComb>in an MP game it only lets you buy up 75%
16:52<dragonhorseboy>lol spcomb didn't think you'll be here too :P
16:53*SpComb does a hostile takeover of dragonhorseboy
16:53<dragonhorseboy>spcomb I wouldn't mind .. but it doesn't work ;)
16:55<@Rubidium>I guess it doesn't work there because of (ancient) "can't move players to another company" stuff
17:05<Noldo>the shares just don't make any sense
17:06<@Belugas>ho... taht late.... /me runs
17:06<@Belugas>bye bye
17:06<@Rubidium>night Belugas
17:08<frosch123>Noldo: too realistic?
17:08<Lyzio>Noldo: how should they be instead?
17:08<Noldo>frosch123: ;)
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17:12<Noldo>frosch123: now that I think about it, yes too realistic
17:13<Noldo>it would have to balanced with quite a lot of realism in other areas for it to work
17:13<planetmaker>If I have a line "#define VAR2 VAR1" - what does subsequently a "#ifdef VAR2" evaluate to, if VAR1 was never defined?
17:14<Noldo>to string "VAR1" ?
17:14<@Rubidium>I'd say true
17:14<planetmaker>hm, plausible. Thanks
17:14<@Rubidium>just check header inclusions to get an idea
17:15<Noldo>reading the questions is basically a cheat
17:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18865 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Doc: update the manpage
17:20<@peter1138>oh, a Hackykid!
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17:29<Eddi|zuHause>[18.01.2010 19:17] <sawtooth> cat :) <--- so it's a sawtoothcat? :p
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17:40<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> If I have a line "#define VAR2 VAR1" - what does subsequently a "#ifdef VAR2" evaluate to, if VAR1 was never defined? <-- just don't think of "var" as a "var", #ifdef checks if the name was defined, not that it expands to anything useful [it can expand to an empty string as well]
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17:52<@peter1138>@seen tdev
17:52<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen tdev.
17:52<@peter1138>@seen thomasdev
17:52<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen thomasdev.
17:52<PeterT>peter1138: DorpsGek's logs crashed
17:52<@Rubidium>if he wasn't here the last week he won't show up
17:56<@peter1138>yup, i know hat
17:57<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18866 /trunk/src/ (24 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the CmdFailed(ret)/CmdSucceeded(ret) wrapper functions
17:58<SpComb>hmm, cargodist needs another update already, been a week
17:59<PeterT>what do you mean?
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17:59<PeterT>cargodist with sprinkles?
17:59<PeterT>or just plain cargodist
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18:04<@peter1138>ah well, ror didn't work. never mind.
18:05<PeterT>SpComb: Are you on windows?
18:05<SpComb>no, but I have a windows VM
18:05<PeterT>What OS do you have?
18:06<PeterT>so, you can work with GIT quite easily?
18:06<PeterT>why not update it yourself?
18:08<SpComb>I'd preferr to let fonso do it, since he knows the code and has to figure out any crashes that it causes
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18:08<PeterT>I see
18:14<Yexo>git works perfectly fine on windows
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18:18<PeterT>Yexo: it's much slower, though ;-P
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18:18<Yexo>possible, but far from unusable
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18:19<PeterT>do you want me to update my binaries to your newest post?
18:19<SpComb>well, if you want to
18:20<SpComb>r18790 is 6 days old :/
18:20<SpComb>but it does include the tick_counter -related commit that might fix some of the earlier issues
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18:21<SpComb>I'd wait for fonso to update cargodist to something more recent and then post an updated build
18:21<PeterT>i agree
18:21<PeterT>so, will you be posting updated versions of this new patch?
18:22<SpComb>updated against what?
18:22<SpComb>once it's updated? Sure, once you poke me :)
18:22<PeterT>!poke SpComb
18:22<SpComb>not yet :(
18:23<PeterT>That reminds me of the poke button on FaceBook (TM)
18:25*Rubidium wonders what's the point in building a binary for each update of cargodist; it's not savegame compatible, so people won't be updating that much
18:26<PeterT>That's like saying there isn't a point to nightlies
18:26<SpComb>Rubidium: well, there's stuff fixed in trunk that might apply
18:26<@orudge>Rubidium has somewhat of a point
18:26<SpComb>and people start new games occasionally
18:26<PeterT>what SpComb said
18:26<@orudge>it's not exactly the same as nightlies
18:26<@orudge>if the saved games aren't compatible
18:26<@orudge>obviously, having new binaries is not a bad thing
18:26<SpComb>indeed not
18:26<PeterT>yes, since nighty games are compatible
18:26<@orudge>but it's not quite as essential
18:26<PeterT>also, thinking about new users
18:26<sawtooth>i should give the autosep patch a try the next time i update cargodist and start a game
18:28<SpComb>or I could start hacking the cargodist sl stuff to provide saveload compatibility of some kind... eh
18:28<@Rubidium>SpComb: but what's the point if it's savegame incompatible? You're better probably off picking 'stable nightlies' every once and while and base on that
18:29<SpComb>stable nightly, is that what you call the rev that fonso occasionally chooses to merge his cargodist against? :)
18:30<@Rubidium>no, that's just whatever's on top when he does it
18:30<SpComb>and trunk nightly is whatever happens to be HEAD at 18:00 GMT or whatever
18:30<@Rubidium>20:00 'Amsterdam'-time
18:31<@Rubidium>i.e. 20:00 CET / 20:00 CEST depending on whether DST is in effect
18:31<@Rubidium>(in effect in Amsterdam that is)
18:31<@Rubidium>we don't follow the USA's DST stuff
18:31<SpComb>pfft, you should fix it to UTC :)
18:32<@orudge>hmm, my openttd SSH session is set to UTC, at least
18:32<@orudge>and I don't think I manually tweaked it
18:32<@orudge>so that's something
18:32<@Rubidium>the server is fully in UTC :)
18:32*orudge runs all his servers on UTC, even the ones that are presently in UTC-6
18:33<SpComb>Zulu time
18:33<@Rubidium>only the time the CF is started is 'under influence' of DST
18:33<SpComb>how bizarre
18:35<SpComb>but windows builds of random patches is a sad little world
18:35<@Rubidium>well... it did it that way before the new compile farm so we kept the behaviour
18:35<SpComb>always a little problematic and crappy
18:35<@Rubidium>SpComb: be happy you haven't encountered MSVC2010 yet
18:36<SpComb>apart from Error: Success dialogs?
18:38<@Rubidium>you need to 'physically' yank win64.asm from the project to compile win32, otherwise it wants to link win64.obj into the 32 bits openttd. Excluding it from 'build' works fine, except during linking... Furthermore yanking it our means that you can't compile 64 bits builds with the same solution.
18:39<SpComb>sounds like a bug of some kind
18:39<SpComb>don't you have separate configurations for 32/64 -bit?
18:39<@Rubidium>oh... and directx and the platform sdk needs to be installed in a particular order, otherwise it fails during compilation. That makes upgrading your working 2008 to 2010 upgrade yield a broken install
18:40<@Rubidium>SpComb: yes, the configuations exclude files from builds under certain circumstances
18:40<SpComb>i.e. the win64.asm goes into objs/Release/Win64/... and the win32.asm goes into objs/Release/Win32/...
18:40<SpComb>assuming it's a generated file
18:40<@Rubidium>SpComb: there is no win32.asm
18:41<@Rubidium>just when linking the 32 bits binary it wants win64.obj which it didn't generate because win64.asm is excluded from the build
18:41<@Rubidium>hmm... what else did I have
18:41<@orudge>it's ugly, but could you possibly just do an #ifdef WIN64 in the win64.asm and include it in both projects? Hopefully, of course, MS will fix the bug instead ;)
18:41<@Rubidium>oh yes, installing 2010 seems to have broken MSVC's capability to do something sane with crash.dmps
18:42<SpComb>not familiar enough with MSVC - I've mostly just had the crash-course point-and-click until it builds the damn thing introduction to it :P
18:42<@Rubidium>I am SO happy I first made a copy of the .vdi before installing MSVC 2010
18:42<SpComb>(outside of OpenTTD)
18:42<SpComb>(mostly with Windows Mobile, in fact)
18:43<@orudge>I'd suggest you report these bugs to MS at least, if you haven't already - if nobody reports them, nobody is likely to fix them either :(
18:43<@Rubidium>orudge: I already reported the first "error" I got
18:43<@orudge>ah, fair enough
18:44<@orudge>how curious\
18:44<@Rubidium>given that installing MSVC2010 successfully is considered an error, I reckon working fine is an error too
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18:46<@Rubidium>then I'm also not very happy with Microsoft's choice to remove the global include path configuration stuff
18:46<__ln>wtf, they've done that?
18:46<PeterT>they removed that?!
18:46<@Rubidium>that means you have to set the include path stuff for each solution... and ofcourse we can't do that globally because that would break for lots of people that don't install stuff in default locations
18:46<PeterT>wtf, why?
18:47<PeterT>f that, I'm not updating
18:48<@Rubidium>though removing the global include path stuff works fine for corporate environments where they can just force everything to be installed the same, it doesn't quite help open source projects
18:49<@Rubidium>so Microsoft seems to be expanding on their path to "make stuff worse" (in my opinion)
18:49<+glx>btw there's no "express" version yet
18:49<@Rubidium>there's no 'stable' either
18:49<__ln>i think we've been successfully using MSVC2010 beta at work on a project that relies on global include paths... gotta check tomorrow what's going on.
18:50<+glx>x64 in 2008 express is already a little pain to get (but it's doable)
18:50<@orudge>"Oh yeah, to change the global include path, you have to go to the property manager (I never even knew it existed), open a build configuration and open Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user. Inside of that are the include and lib directories which all projects inherit. Well, some of them, there's more added to that but I can't find them."
18:50<@orudge>that does sound rather irritating
18:50<PeterT>honestly, I see no point in making a new guide on the wiki for the 2010 version
18:51<@Rubidium>yup... *somewhere* the directx and platform SDK includes are added, but I can't find it *anywhere* in the GUI
18:51<PeterT>just tell people to get 2008 express
18:51<@Rubidium>as such for the 'noob' there is no way to change the include order of them to fix the compile failure due to the wrong install order
18:51<+glx>PeterT: no need to say anything about MSVC 2010 on the wiki when it's still a beta
18:52<PeterT>Even when it isn't a beta
18:52<+glx>things "may" change with the stable version
18:53<@Rubidium>so I reckon it's somewhere in the registry, which ofcourse is fun
18:54<@Rubidium>especially when there's a MSVC express too, which doesn't share the registry 'path' with the non-express versions (like it does(not) now)
18:54<@Rubidium>not to mention WoW64 and such
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20:01<Eddi|zuHause>what's a patchbot doing here?
20:04<Eddi|zuHause># until the man of her dreams comes along picks her up and puts her over the shoulder
20:04<Eddi|zuHause># it seems so unlikely, in this day and age
20:04<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: What *isn't* a patchbot doing here?
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: writing my patches?
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>what else would a patchbot do?
20:06<PeterT>have a misleading nickname
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22:09<DaleStan>!seen patchbot
22:11<PeterT>DaleStan: Don't think that works in here
22:12<DaleStan>That's what I was testing. There is a patchbot here, after all.
22:12<DaleStan>In the other place, patchbot would respond.
22:12<DaleStan>... as I see you've discovered.
22:14<PeterT>patchbot only responds to commands in #tycoon, but it will go anywhere you invite it
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 19 00:00:14 2010