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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-19

---Logopened Tue Jan 19 00:00:14 2010
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02:24<Terkhen>good morning
02:25<ss23>Night :D
02:26<Bluelight>I won in the game FreeOrion. lol
02:27<Bluelight>The AI's didn't resist my takeover..
02:27<Bluelight>Guess thats because the game is not finished yet or somethning..
02:42<Terkhen>IIRC the AI wasn't really a challenge at the original MOO either
02:43<Bluelight>Well I always lost in MoOII
02:43<Bluelight>Must have done something wrong, lol
02:44<Bluelight>Command points.. food.. credits.. there is a lot of stuff to keep track of..
02:45<Bluelight>I always do something wrong, he he..
02:45<Terkhen>I only meant the original game, MOO2 was more challenging... until you customized your race mix-maxing your favourite strategy
02:46<sparr>Stars! was my favorite classic 4X, and it had an awesome play by email (or IRC) community
02:46<Bluelight>But I think MoO2 is better then FreeOrion.. :p
02:47<Terkhen>I never heard of it
02:48<Bluelight>Ohh... Looks complicated..
02:49<Bluelight>But the menu and button graphics is ugly.. :p
02:55<Terkhen>it looks quite complex, I like those games
02:55<@peter1138>i'm failing to google it :s
02:56<Terkhen>see you later
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02:59<@peter1138>and that link causes chrome to stop working. nice.
02:59<Bluelight>Use Firefox, not crome..
03:00<Bluelight>chrome is crap!
03:00<Forked>also Bluelight .. it says "cancelled"
03:01<Bluelight>What says?
03:01*Bluelight is waiting for a reply from Forked with great exitement..
03:02<Forked>read what it says in your own link
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03:03<Bluelight>May be cancelled, but it'¨s still playable I think..
03:04<Bluelight>Anyone wanna play FreeOrion with me? :p
03:05<sparr>Bluelight: ugly yes... it's like 15 years old.
03:05<sparr>and one of the best multiplayer turn based 4x games ive played
03:05<Bluelight>He he..
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03:07<@peter1138>odd, freeorion source packages don't appear to be released
03:07<Bluelight>Sure it does.. Check SorceForge..
03:08<@peter1138>add enough i am
03:08<Forked>Bluelight: sure you didn't link to a followup game? =p
03:08<Bluelight>I did not understand you..
03:08<@peter1138>*oddly enough i am
03:09<Bluelight>I have some really big question marks in my forehead now..
03:10<Forked>"Stars! Supernova" != "Stars!" :)
03:10<Bluelight>Ok, I don't know..
03:11<@peter1138>i see
03:11<@peter1138>that's pretty retarded
03:12<Bluelight>Ahh.. Complicated..
03:13<Bluelight>Wish I knew enough coding to change the game.. lol
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03:30<planetmaker>it's a matter of dedication and will power...
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03:53<Bluelight>Hail roboboy..
03:54<roboboy>im on holiday using mobile internet
03:55<@peter1138>it's a matter of "if you never try, you'll never know"
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04:40*roboboy shall restart
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06:02<Bluelight>Anyone wanna play with me on my server?
06:03<Bluelight>[No] Bluelight's OpenTTD Server
06:04<Tennel>some specials?
06:04<Bluelight>What do you mean?
06:04<Bluelight>No air..
06:05<Tennel>normal game or something with goals
06:05<Bluelight>No just a game with no goal..
06:05<Tennel>ok, maybe later
06:05<Bluelight>Cool! :)
06:05<Bluelight>You want goal?
06:06<Tennel>no, it's ok
06:07<Tennel>i don't like goal games^^
06:07<Bluelight>Me neither..
06:07<Bluelight>I just need the perfect game to waste time.. :)
06:08<Tennel>do you speak another language to?
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06:15<Bluelight>What do you mean?
06:15<Bluelight>Norwegian and English..
06:16<evilNirvana>lemme get 075.
06:16<evilNirvana>then ill join you
06:17<Bluelight>Cool.. I just started..
06:18<evilNirvana>ffs =/
06:18<evilNirvana>just because i have 100
06:18<evilNirvana>it wont run 075 =/
06:19<@Rubidium>then you're doing something wrong (tm)
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06:20<evilNirvana>Rubidium: using windows.
06:21<@Rubidium>even there you can use both versions at the same time
06:21<@Rubidium>you just can't use the installer for both
06:23<evilNirvana>just loading my copy of the data files
06:24<evilNirvana>had to find my usb floppy drive
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>you can share the data files between 1.0.0 and 0.7.5 (except opensfx)
06:26<evilNirvana>i mean the original files
06:27<evilNirvana>i had to get
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>you can create an empty
06:27<Eddi|zuHause>(you obviously get no sound that way)
06:28<evilNirvana>i want sound.
06:28<Tennel> <- includes gfx sfx and music
06:28<Bluelight>Unable to join?
06:28<evilNirvana>Tennel: i have a hard copy :P
06:28<evilNirvana>Bluelight: pinged out :()
06:28<Tennel>evilNirvana: ok:)
06:29<Bluelight>Weird.. What is your location.. Server is in Norway
06:29<evilNirvana>im in
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06:36<Eddi|zuHause>Tennel: please do not post such links here!!
06:39<Tennel>Eddi|zuHause: ok, afterwards i noticed
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07:15<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i should play "we are borg" again in moo2... (cybernetic, telepathic, unification) ;)
07:33<planetmaker>the ant or bee strategy isn't bad either
07:33<planetmaker>don't build big but come in numbers > 10^3
07:34<planetmaker>make it creative ants and you're set ;-)
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07:37<Eddi|zuHause>who needs creative if you can spy the hell out of everybody?
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>we played moo2 multiplayer a few weeks ago, and as telepathic, i only needed 2 spys per person and i never had science problems again...
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07:40<Eddi|zuHause>especially when someone else was creative :p
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07:57<planetmaker>hehe. Indeed also a nice strategy.
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>and with telepathic you don't need troops, saves a hell lot of micromanagement and some command points
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08:11<planetmaker>indeed. Maybe I should install it again, too :-)
08:11<planetmaker>Somewhere I still have it. Maybe even twice... dunno anymore ;-)
08:12<planetmaker>but I guess it was MoO I, II and III. But III is shit
08:13<Ammler> :-)
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08:17<planetmaker>I know ;-) I started the download when I left home :-P
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08:37<skidd13>Anyone interested in coding multi-climate canals?
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08:42<Hirundo>You mean that canal shores change depending on climate?
08:44<Ammler>skidd13: isn't that already possible with Action7?
08:46<skidd13>Ammler: well I have the sprites (just miss the locks) but I don't want to code ;)
08:46<Ammler>ah ok :-)
08:48<Ammler>is it independend on the base set?
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08:49<skidd13>based on OTTD's sprites
08:49<skidd13>just climate aware
08:49<planetmaker>what are "ottd" sprites? ;-)
08:49<skidd13>the ottd canal sprites
08:49<planetmaker>well... opengfx or default base set?
08:50<Ammler>does it have ground sprites anyway?
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>were the canals part of ttd?
08:50<KenjiE20>canals weren't in TTDLX
08:50<planetmaker>I think they're in openttdd/w.grf
08:50<skidd13>planetmaker: base set
08:50<planetmaker>... there are TWO base sets ;-)
08:50<Ammler>skidd13: you were absent for too long :-P
08:51<skidd13>Ammler: yeah
08:51<planetmaker>they're useful, if they're opengfx style.
08:51<planetmaker>as opengfx is the default base set by now ;-)
08:51<planetmaker>though... if they're gpl, they could replace the current canals there.
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>not here...
08:51<planetmaker>(if they're not the same even. Dunno)
08:52<skidd13>I dislike opengfx too blurry, but thats personal
08:52<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, default doesn't mean everyone uses it ;-)
08:53<Ammler>skidd13: rivers are one of the missing parts for the ttd base set.
08:53<planetmaker>But I cannot code anything which would look ugly with opengfx :-P
08:53<skidd13>Ammler: I know... but ATM to huge work-load
08:54<planetmaker>if they're nice canals... I can include them in opengfx, though :-)
08:54<planetmaker>got the sprites somewhere, skidd13 ?
08:54<Ammler>can't we not just copy&paste the rivers code from opengfx to make that canal grf?
08:54<planetmaker>Ammler, mostly. You'll need to adjust the sprite#
08:55<planetmaker>climate specific canals would be cool :-)
08:55<planetmaker>and a nice addition to the extra part
08:56<@peter1138>opengfx rivers are too straight
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>and the corners are too rectangular
08:57<skidd13>planetmaker: yeah... but to release them I'd like to ask George for his permission of modifying the sprites cause he drew them for openttdd/w.grf
08:57<@peter1138>they look like grassy-edged canals
08:58<planetmaker>well. Openttdd/w is GPL.
08:58<planetmaker>so no permission needed
08:59<skidd13>I know but asking is the kind way ;)
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09:03<Ammler>skidd13: not always, asking someone twice for the same can also be annoying... specially because he can't say "no".
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09:04<planetmaker>that's actually what licenses are for ;-)
09:04<Ammler>but you can inform him about :-)
09:04<planetmaker>saying thank you / notifying is what I'd consider nice, if someone re-uses my GPL work. Asking for permission is... unnecessary
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09:05<skidd13>Ammler: that's what I meant ;)
09:06<planetmaker>but inform != ask :-P
09:06<Ammler>well, you need to ask, if you like to change the license, but I hope, you won't
09:07<skidd13>I prefer CC but well I don't want to break with the base license ;) so it'll be GPL
09:07<planetmaker>you cannot even ;-) - unless you get his express permission.
09:07<planetmaker>also... I don't code non GPL. :-P
09:08<planetmaker>I profited so much from other people making their NFO available that I'd consider it lame to not make mine GPL so anyone can profit from it in the future
09:09<planetmaker>and OpenTTD is no project where I apply algorithms of which implementation I can live from
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09:12<Ammler>[15:07] <peter1138> [14:56:58] opengfx rivers are too straight <-- not less than ttd rivers ;-)
09:12<skidd13>planetmaker: For code I prefer GPL for graphics I prefer CC
09:12<SpComb>what's this rivers business tha tI keep hearing about
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09:13<Ammler>SpComb: there aren't any non opengfx rivers for other climates
09:17<planetmaker>skidd13, but grfs are one entity...
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09:18<SpComb>Ammler: never even seen a river in openttd
09:19<@peter1138>they have to be created in the scenario editor
09:19<@peter1138>Ammler, because there are no ttd rivers?
09:19<skidd13>planetmaker: I still prefer CC there cause with it you are able to control the license of forks better
09:20<Ammler>skidd13: how will you control the fork better, it is like GPL without source
09:21<planetmaker>license is license.
09:21<planetmaker>either you allow something or you don't.
09:21<Noldo>which CC btw?
09:21<planetmaker>But CC is very community un-friendly in half of its variants.
09:21<Ammler>peter1138: yes, just check a map made with opengfx with the ttd base set
09:22<planetmaker>any NC clause makes it incompatible with OpenTTD. Which is bad.
09:22<skidd13>Ammler: CC is IMO a bit more flexible
09:22<skidd13>Noldo: that is the thing I meant you are able to choose which parts you add
09:22<Ammler>there are some examples on the intro map competition
09:22<planetmaker>skidd13, flexible?!
09:22<@peter1138>that ain't ttd rivers
09:22<planetmaker>what flexibility do you need which you don't have with GPL?
09:22<planetmaker>Except if you want to be a control freak and tell people what they may and may not do.
09:22<planetmaker>E.g. control their "taste"
09:22<Ammler>skidd13: read the opengfx license thread
09:23<Noldo>skidd13: well CC is more like a family of licenses, comparing it to GPL doesn't quite work
09:23<skidd13>planetmaker: that might be a relict of my education ;)
09:23<skidd13>Noldo: true
09:24<Ammler>which you can't with CC, you have less control then with gpl
09:24<Ammler>(except NC clause)
09:26<skidd13>Ammler: you maybe want to reuse it in a commercial product but that's sometimes problematic with GPL
09:27<planetmaker>basically for newgrfs, a NC and a ND clause make the code unaccessible. That's bad. And as such GPL is better then the remaining CC licenses
09:27<planetmaker>skidd13, is it?
09:27<Ammler>not, if the commercial product is GPL too
09:27<@Rubidium>a major problem with (some of) the CC licenses is that they are not considered "free" by the major linux distributions
09:28<planetmaker>think of it that way, skidd13: if you want to make it commercial AND closed source: then you should have the wit to contact the coders / artists
09:28<planetmaker>If you're just a hobby coder for these projects: then it's difficult, especially to contact people long gone.
09:28<@Rubidium>also if you want your stuff to be freely useable by companies, license it under e.g. the zlib license
09:28<planetmaker>Thus it helps the community MUCH more, if you chose GPL which is OpenTTD's default license and which requires to share and continue to share all code
09:28<@Rubidium>or, like sdl does, provide a commercial licensed version upon request, but that ofcourse only works for the stuff you have done
09:29<skidd13>planetmaker: I stated earlier that I'll release the stuff GPL ... so the discussion is obsolete ;)
09:29<planetmaker>and code in the newgrf context is images and nfo
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09:39<heffer>in the OpenSFX thread i also stated why NC is unacceptable for Fedora for example
09:40<Noldo>NC is just brain dead
09:41<Bluelight>evilNirvan: Just re-connet.. If you are gone too long the company will die..
09:41<heffer>well i can understand when authors don't want their products to be used in commercial environments
09:41<heffer>but while the motivation is clear the implications are not
09:42<Ammler>but that is the only CC license which would make sense to use
09:43<heffer>i think the problem with OpenSFX is that many samples are taken from different source that don't allow it to be licensed differently
09:43<heffer>opengfx is in fedora, opensfx not
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09:44<Ammler>heffer: my spec tests :-)
09:45<Ammler>doesn't fedora have a "restricted" repo?
09:45<heffer>catcodec and openttd-nosound will be in fedora soon
09:45<Ammler>for the mp3 and libdvdcss stuff and such
09:45<heffer>i find it funny that i am required to build a sound package from source that provides NO sound :D
09:45<heffer>well there is RPMFusion
09:46<heffer>and that is where openttd-opensfx will probably go
09:46<heffer>both openttd-opensfx and openttd-nosound will provide openttd-sound
09:46<heffer>so either one will be pulled in when installing
09:46<Ammler> <-- feel free to take some stuff if you want or comment
09:47<heffer>sure. thank you
09:47<heffer>what is openttd-is2?
09:48<Ammler>that is a patched openttd
09:48<heffer>oh okay. openttdcoop too?
09:48<Ammler>openttdcoop is the nightly we use
09:49<Ammler>something like weekly :-)
09:49<heffer>okay. but i tend to play the stock version anyway
09:49<Ammler>did you solve the renum boost issue?
09:49<heffer>i don't want to embarrass my myself on a public server :D
09:50<heffer>i don't quite remember. but i don't seem to have any issues with boost and renum on fedora anymore
09:50<Ammler>do you support all fedora versions or just newest?
09:51<heffer>as usual you can find the fedora stuff at<pkgname>
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09:52<heffer>we always support n-1
09:52<heffer>so atm this is 11 and 12
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10:00<Luukland>Guys you know that with latest nightly, horrible black areas arrise when kicked out a server?
10:00<TrueBrain>don't get kicked!
10:00<Luukland>kicked as in -> Restart of new server game
10:00<Luukland>Just telling :)
10:02<SpComb>eww, rpms
10:02<TrueBrain>you like ebuild more?
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10:19<evilNirvana>Bluelight: it doesnt like me :(
10:19<Bluelight>Just try again.. Sometimes it don't work for some reason.
10:21<TrueBrain>put a fire under it
10:26<heffer>package formats are nonrelevant
10:26<TrueBrain>tell that to people dropping the avi container
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10:30<Luukland>Truebrain are you allright mate?
10:30<Luukland>You sound a bit "suicidal"
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10:30<planetmaker>hello TrueBrain :-) Long time no seen (here)
10:30<TrueBrain>nah, I value my life
10:31<TrueBrain>planetmaker: tell me about it ;)
10:31<planetmaker>how's life?
10:31<TrueBrain>I value it :)
10:31<planetmaker>very much so :-)
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10:35<TrueBrain>I like the :D smiley mibbit has
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10:37<TrueBrain>(Fast joined)
10:41<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I don't recognize you.
10:42-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
10:42<planetmaker>tsk tsk ;-)
10:42<@TrueBrain>good boy
10:42*TrueBrain pets DorpsGek
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>it's a TrueBrain!
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>we missed you!
10:49*TrueBrain hugs Eddi|zuHause
10:49<@TrueBrain>nice to see you too :)
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium told us horror stories about you...
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>i was scared!
10:50<@TrueBrain>Haha! As you should :) Do tell, what did he tell?
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10:53<Eddi|zuHause>[Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2010] [22:00:16] <dihedral> i am not used to not seing him on irc for a longer period of time
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>[Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2010] [22:00:57] <Rubidium> maybe because I possibly killed his bouncer
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>[Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2010] [22:01:29] <Rubidium> but then... I killed way more at that moment
10:53<@TrueBrain>ghehehehehe :) Would have been fun, if Rubidium was the cause of my HD dying ...
10:53<@TrueBrain>then I have something to blame
10:53<@TrueBrain>euh, sorry: someone
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>the conversation was slightly longer than this ;)
10:55<@TrueBrain>ghehe :)
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10:55<@TrueBrain>I will check thegrebs, if I get bored :p
10:55<planetmaker>unlikely to happen, eh? ;-)
10:56<@TrueBrain>nah ... I have been snowboarding the first week of 2010! Do you know how cool it is you can say that to people? "What did you do the first week of 2010?" - "Well, I was in Val Thorens putting on my board and going of a hill, through the slightly not prepared parts of the mountain"
10:56<@TrueBrain>planetmaker: very true :) Even more exact: I don't really care what is said :$
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11:00<planetmaker>hehe :-)
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11:05*Rubidium waves at TrueBrain
11:05<@Rubidium>does the mibbit thing mean the problem's still not resolved?
11:05*TrueBrain waves back to Rubidium
11:06<@TrueBrain>nah, it means I am to fucking lazy to reinstall my machine
11:08<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: what if we update the mirror rotation to look at the IP, and assign based on that?
11:08<@TrueBrain>peter1138: did you update your mirror to a 100 mbit by now?
11:09<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that'd require some uhm... 'management' to spread it a bit because the servers are all quote close to eachother
11:09<@TrueBrain>US and UK?
11:09<@Rubidium>IIRC uk, nl and cz
11:09<@TrueBrain>and us, that is why I start about it :)
11:10<@Rubidium>ah, forgot the us :)
11:10<@TrueBrain>did you btw adjust your stat-collector to avoid duplicated entries? (the ones that load the, and get redirected to
11:11<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: so I would suggest to look up the IP (geoIP or what ever), and if US, go to, otherwise pick one of the 3
11:11<@TrueBrain>also, should we keep track how many users we point to which mirror?
11:12<@peter1138>TrueBrain, yes, ages ago
11:12<@Rubidium> is completely ignored
11:12<@TrueBrain>peter1138: good :) Was just checking ;) Tnx :)
11:12<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: good
11:12<@Rubidium>so only "hits" are counted, which means we'll miss stuff if people search the mirrors manually
11:12<@TrueBrain>not really an issue
11:12<@TrueBrain>there are tons of mirrors out there anyway (.deb, .rpms, ..)
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11:13<@Rubidium>I wonder how much more expensive (calculation wise) geoip gets
11:14<@TrueBrain>there are static databases which give a good estimate
11:14<@TrueBrain>of course there is some penalty
11:14<@peter1138>write a script to pull out stats from the mirror's log files
11:14<@TrueBrain>but redirecting nl. users to us. is not the best thing ;)
11:14<@TrueBrain>peter1138: we don't have access to most log files from the mirrors (for good reason btw)
11:14<@Rubidium>true, but for some reason php seems to be very sluggish lately already :(
11:15<@peter1138>hmm, my mirror is being used currently
11:15<@TrueBrain>all mirrors are being used, yes
11:15<@TrueBrain>we ran out of bandwidth on the nl. side ;)
11:15<@peter1138>it wasn't for a long time :)
11:15<@TrueBrain>didn't Rubidium tell you? :p
11:16<@Rubidium>I did tell I turned on the mirrors, okay I didn't highlight you
11:16<@TrueBrain>we have 2TB .. our estimate was over that value :p Now it is back to 1TB .. the rest of the bandwidth is now on any of the mirrors ;)
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11:16<@TrueBrain>but now we need to orchestrate this mirror stuff a bit more .. random picking is not what I like most :)
11:16<@TrueBrain>although I like the solution Rubidium wrote :)
11:17<@peter1138>heh, 1TB over the last month
11:17<@peter1138>do you have mirror monitoring?
11:17<heffer>you could try mod_geoip or Apache2::Geo::Mirror
11:17<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: so, what do you think: log per mirror how many users we redirect to there? And use some kind of geoIP to pick the right mirror?
11:17<@peter1138>i.e. if my server goes tits up would it stop trying automatically?
11:17<@TrueBrain>peter1138: currently: no
11:17<@peter1138>oh, ½TB
11:18<heffer>are more mirror desirable? i could offer some space in DE
11:18<heffer>how much would be needed?
11:18<@Rubidium>On Sat Jan 02 2010: 13:38 <@Rubidium> I've implemented some crude 'also use the mirrors for downloads' thingy in the hope to stay below the projected 2.3 TB this month (>2 TB => paying lots of money)
11:19<@TrueBrain>heffer: at least 100GB diskspace, and at least 2TB of bandwidth. raw http access, and where possible also ftp access
11:19<@TrueBrain>peter1138: don't forget to set your mirror.html ;)
11:20<heffer>that should be possible
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11:21<@TrueBrain>heffer: although we rather have countries far away :p nl, uk, cz .. de is very closeby :p
11:21<heffer>yes that was why I was asking
11:21<@TrueBrain>anyway, if you are serious, drop me a mail (truebrain @ ...), with details, including peerings (or AS)
11:21<heffer>it might not be attractive
11:21<heffer>since it's only my personal dedicated server at Hetzner
11:21<@peter1138>30GB diskspace used currently
11:22<@TrueBrain>I will write a nice 'mirror application' form soon :)
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11:22<@Rubidium>anyhow, my "use the mirrors" code is *very* crude and definitely needs improvements :)
11:22<heffer>TrueBrain, what about MirrorManager?
11:22<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: so you agree on my idea? :)
11:22<@TrueBrain>heffer: mirrormanager?
11:22<heffer>that's what we use at Fedora
11:23<@Rubidium>geoip is definitely not a bad idea, only we need to look at whether php is really the best 'tool' for the job
11:23<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: lighttpd has a geoip plugin
11:23<@TrueBrain>dunno how robust it is
11:24<heffer>MirrorManager does GeoIP afaik and it checkes if a mirror is up to date. otherwise it's excluded from the rotation
11:25<@TrueBrain>heffer: we use a much more simpler solution: when there is a new binary, we rsync the whole tree
11:25<@TrueBrain>(the reason nightlies take 10 minutes longer)
11:25<@peter1138>updates are pushed, so we know when they're up to date
11:25<@TrueBrain>this assures us mirrors are always directly accessable
11:25<@TrueBrain>we only have to account for mirror failure if we let this grow
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11:25<@TrueBrain>so every hour a 'wget' of a specific page should solve that
11:26<@TrueBrain>I try to avoid having mirrors install specific software
11:26<@TrueBrain>(also, no PHP, no Python, no nothing)
11:26<@TrueBrain>plain files
11:26<@TrueBrain>(we upload our own index.html to solve all kinds of problems ;))
11:27<heffer>mirrormanager doesn't need any software on the mirrors afaik
11:27<@TrueBrain>the description is very vague
11:27<@TrueBrain>but okay, is too simple at this stage
11:27<heffer>i know. it's mostly untested outside fedora infrastructure
11:27<@TrueBrain>we only want to mirror our files, not the webpage itself :)
11:28<heffer>MirrorManager just manages mirrors, not the content :)
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11:28<heffer>but maybe Apache2::Geo::Mirror is really what you are looking for
11:28<heffer>it's pretty simple
11:28<@TrueBrain>we try to avoid Apache :)
11:29<heffer>oh i see
11:29<heffer>for my part i use cherokee
11:29<@TrueBrain>Cherokee is too 'new' .. has many issues when we last tried it
11:29<@TrueBrain>(stupid issues, like wrongly switching connections between SSL and non-SSL)
11:30<@TrueBrain>currently we use nginx as front-end, and lighttpd (and one apache) as backend
11:30<@TrueBrain>nginx because it uses no memory and CPU, lighttpd because it is better than apache (but leaks memory)
11:30<@Rubidium>lighttpd because it leaks memory like hell in one particular situation
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11:31<Ammler>suse uses but that is apache module, afaik
11:31<@Rubidium>one that is sadly enough too common
11:31<Ammler>but also quite "realtime"
11:31<@TrueBrain>but this setup is relative stable :)
11:31<@Rubidium>yup, except when someone DOSes :(
11:31<@TrueBrain>either way, Rubidium , I will make a draft with some ideas, and then maybe we can test a few things :)
11:31<heffer>the AS of my server would be AS24940. dunno if it's good :)
11:32<@TrueBrain>heffer: if you are serious, email me, then I will review it. Oh, forgot one condition: 100+ mbit/s connection ;)
11:32-!-bartaway is now known as bartavelle
11:33<@TrueBrain>hmm ... I might even consider making IPv6 support mandatory ;)
11:33<@Rubidium>oh, that reminds me of that German provider... "unlimited bandwidth @ 100 mbits*" (*) if you pass 2 TB you'll only have 10 mbits
11:33<@Rubidium>and at 10 mbits... you'll not go that far over 2 TB
11:34<heffer>i believe that's what I have :) so i assume it's not worth it
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11:34<Bluelight>I miss you in the game evilNirvana?
11:34<Bluelight>Just check out my new track..
11:34<evilNirvana>\it died
11:34<@TrueBrain>heffer: then no worries .. .de should be easy to get, as mirror. Cheap bandwidth ;)
11:34<heffer>right :)
11:34<@peter1138>"With the distribution of two /8 blocks to APNIC, the Number Resource
11:34<@peter1138>Organization (NRO) today announced that less than ten percent of
11:34<@peter1138>available IPv4 addresses remain unallocated."
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11:35<@Rubidium>but yes, IPv6 support would be nice (no IPv6 mirrors at the moment)
11:35<@peter1138>yeah sorry
11:35<@peter1138>my routers don't have ipv6 images yet :d
11:35<@TrueBrain>peter1138: something to fix for you ;)
11:35<@peter1138>i have ipv6...
11:35<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: something we should keep in mind when rerouting too
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11:35<@TrueBrain>we should keep the IPv6 requests at nl. for now :)
11:35<@TrueBrain>orudge: does us. support IPv6?
11:36<@peter1138>2a02:cb0::/32 :D
11:36<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: I only have an IPv6 address of nl.
11:36<@Rubidium>and yes, if you come there via ipv6 you should be redirected to an ipv6 server right now
11:37<@TrueBrain>non-IPv6 I assume you mean? :)
11:37<@TrueBrain>owh, should
11:37<@TrueBrain>I read: could
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11:39<evilNirvana>Bluelight: sorry, i've been called into DJ D:
11:40<Bluelight>No problem but I just wanted to show you my new trainstation..
11:42<evilNirvana>lemme try
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11:56<@TrueBrain>peter1138: any ETA on IPv6 support, or no priority what so ever?
12:00<@TrueBrain>k :)
12:00<@peter1138>it's nearly impossible to get cisco updates without paying $lots to cisco for support contacts
12:01<@TrueBrain>yeah ... this will be a nice project, to make a small something which routes people all over the world for the downloads :)
12:01<@TrueBrain>first: food
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12:04<@peter1138>hmm, what's my lirportal login?
12:09<@peter1138>ah, found it :D
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12:19<Sacro>hackykid :o
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12:36<evilNirvana>PBS failed me D:
12:36<evilNirvana>crashed two of my trains
12:36<@TrueBrain>PBS is evil
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12:37<@TrueBrain>Pressed By Superman
12:37<Bluelight>See you evilNirvana.. Fun playing.. :)
12:38<Bluelight>Damn I have to many IRC channles open.. Can I ask what IRC clients you guys use?
12:38<Bluelight>I use CHatZilla
12:38-!-De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:38<KenjiE20>Weechat 0.3.0
12:38<@TrueBrain>I use telnet, why?
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12:42<@peter1138>hackykid comes back and pbs starts causing train crashes
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12:45<Bluelight>Yeah that traincrash was crazy.. I saw it..
12:45<Bluelight>Nothing wrong with the signals I think..
12:47<Bluelight>mibbit ajax?
12:47<evilNirvana>TrueBrain: telnet sucks. i use /dev/tcp
12:47<@TrueBrain>I always get the CRC32 wrong :(
12:47<evilNirvana>mIRC :P
12:48<Bluelight>mIRC v6.34 Khaled Mardam-Bey
12:49<Bluelight>I remember years ago mIRC was completely packed with viruses..
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12:54<heffer>o rly?
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12:59<fjb>mIRC was prone to worms.
13:00<@TrueBrain>but /dev/tcp too!
13:00<Bluelight>There was even ways to attack IRC clients with viruses from the menu in mIRC
13:00<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: not on Windows!
13:01<@TrueBrain>for Windows you only need the RFC :p
13:01<@TrueBrain>euh, RPC :p
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13:01*fjb doesn't have /dev/tcp
13:01<@TrueBrain>neither do I, but that is besides any point here ;)
13:01<luukland>Could someone please tell me why I can't disable road works in towns? just like bribing?
13:02<@TrueBrain>because it is part of the game
13:02<fjb>Because they are cute to watch.
13:02<luukland>Part of the game is exclusive rights also, but that one can be disabled
13:03<luukland>I am getting numurous complaints about ppl not being able to finish their bus quests
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13:03<@TrueBrain>so I guess you have to make a patch for it then
13:04<luukland>Yeap appearantly
13:04<luukland>but than ppl might complain about not being able to do so on certain servers >_<
13:04<@TrueBrain>but then again, people always complain
13:05<luukland>sure, but this time they complain on flyspray :)
13:05<@TrueBrain>you don't
13:05<luukland>I am not going to
13:05<luukland>Anyhow, thx for the info!
13:05<planetmaker>then the patch has small chance to make it into trunk ;-)
13:06<luukland>argh, not with the coding styles we use :P
13:06<planetmaker>use a proper one then
13:06<@TrueBrain>apples and peaches ...
13:07<@Rubidium>millions of peaches! :)
13:10<@TrueBrain>I love beaches
13:12<@Rubidium>image sitting in a bus going through California's back roads with the bus driver telling what kind of farms next to the road, then when driving along peach trees "Busted - Peaches" is ran :)
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13:16<@Rubidium>oh, just remember reading somewhere that newer virtualboxes 'support' Mac OS X
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13:17<AC6000>who here knows their way around a netgear router?
13:17<@TrueBrain>virtual EFI support .. that is part of the job
13:17<@TrueBrain>around? Sure, put it in the middle of the table, and walk around it
13:17<AC6000>har har
13:17<@Rubidium>not quite standard OS X though :(
13:18<AC6000>in that case abit of rewording is needed :P
13:18<AC6000>anyone know how to configure a netgear router for openttd? :P
13:18<@TrueBrain>@openttd ports
13:18<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
13:18<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: looks promising
13:19<@Rubidium>although I wonder how much core2duo it needs, i.e. whether xeon is enough too
13:19<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: but I tried for a long time a version which had patched up EFI (it is possible via other methods) .. so EFI alone doesn't cut it
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13:21<AC6000>and its forwarding, correct?
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13:22<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: that page looks promising :)
13:23<@TrueBrain>I wonder if I stil have iDeneb somewhere ...
13:23<@Rubidium>yeah, although the question is whether a properly installed OS X still supports targetting 10.4u
13:23<@Rubidium>especially 10.6
13:23<@TrueBrain>I can target 10.4u with my 10.6, so ...
13:24<@TrueBrain>(I only need to keep in mind doing 10.4 and 10.5 in i386, not in x86_64)
13:24<@Rubidium>universal binaries don't do x64 by default
13:25<@Rubidium>although you can tell it to do so
13:25<AC6000>ok, i think i got it...
13:26*AC6000 then takes TrueBrains advise and walks around his router a few times
13:26<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: that is a bit bull ;)
13:26<@TrueBrain>AC6000: enjoy :)
13:26<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: universal binaries can be any combination :p
13:26<@Rubidium>I'm talking about OpenTTD here
13:26<@TrueBrain>I was for example talking about the universal I made for OpenDUNE :p
13:26<@TrueBrain>and the fact the compiler favours x86_64 about i386 :(
13:27<@Rubidium>still needs testing whether x86_64 is really faster than i386; PPC G5 was at least 10% faster than PPC which is 10% faster than PPC64 (for OpenTTD)
13:28*AC6000 lawls at his rape trains :P
13:28<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: in general, one can doubt x86_64 is faster :) I believe latest try on linux, showed that i686 was faster than x86_64 :p
13:28<@TrueBrain>(but that was 3 years ago)
13:28<@Rubidium>and Apple's docs, at least last time I read them, seemed to imply that you shouldn't make 64 bits binaries unless really needed
13:32<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: if you know how a x86 processor works internally you'll quickly understand why 64 bits doesn't necessarily become faster (think of cache pressure)
13:32<@peter1138>want the extra registers of x86_64 but with the less memory bandwidth of 32bit
13:33<@Rubidium>yeah, basically
13:33<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: I have a fairly good idea why they are not faster perse, yes :)
13:34<@TrueBrain>I am already happy they didn't make ral and rah :p
13:35<@Rubidium>register renaming is fun! :)
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13:37<AC6000>ok, what should the IP be?
13:37-!-Dreamxtreme [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37<AC6000>you sure? <.<
13:37<@TrueBrain>(is that mean?)
13:38<@TrueBrain>I am sure it is a valid IP on any machine
13:38<+glx>::1 is nice too
13:38<@TrueBrain>unless you disable the IPv4 stack
13:38<@TrueBrain>AC6000: your question is kind of vague .. it is like asking: what should the housenumber be?
13:40<AC6000>well, i did cmd.exe and looked up my IP, which did not work ( for openttd that is
13:40<@TrueBrain>(no joke)
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13:40<@Rubidium> is soo much better!
13:41<AC6000>Server IP address must be a LAN IP address. :I
13:42<@TrueBrain>owh, for your router
13:43<@TrueBrain>see .. we need more information if you want us to help you :) You are ... kind of .. giving small hints .. and we have to play: connect the dots :) Tell us what you are trying, and what is failing where ;)
13:43<luukland>try opening the windows command line, and write ipconfig?
13:43<@Rubidium>just install a IPv6 broker and be done with it :)
13:43<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: lol :)
13:43<AC6000>ok, the no brainer part is the game runs, but it's not showing up in the server list :S
13:43<@Rubidium>it's so much easier that having to punch holes in NAT :)
13:44<AC6000>luukland:already did that
13:44<@TrueBrain>AC6000:, and type in port 3979
13:44<@peter1138>hurr... 2a02:cb0:3:3::3
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13:45<@peter1138>unroutable, but i set that up for some reason :s
13:45<@peter1138>don't remember when, hehe
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18867 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 1 changes by fumantsu
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 109 changes by Terkhen
13:45<@TrueBrain>thank you WT3! :)
13:45<@peter1138>36 changes by!
13:45<@TrueBrain>croatian is hanging again :) How nice
13:46<@Rubidium>no, it's not hanging... it's not properly committing changes
13:46<@TrueBrain>it did commit the changes .. just didn't record them back .. case changes
13:46<@TrueBrain>or at least, so I assume
13:47<@TrueBrain>solution is always simple: language-reload trunk Croatian
13:47<@Rubidium>that's not the solution... because the Croatian translator will just add it again
13:48<AC6000>wait, do ports 3978 and 3979 need to be open?
13:48<@TrueBrain>as far as I know, WT3 only bugs when you change a case (and not the non-case): it gets committed, but when loading back the commit, it doesn't see the change
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13:48<@TrueBrain>@openttd ports
13:48<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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13:48<@TrueBrain>heloo Terkhen
13:49<AC6000>ok, i'm gunna try 3979...
13:49<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: but this is the second time it happens for the exact same number (36), as such it's *very* likely it doesn't commit
13:49<AC6000>yay! it works
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13:52<AC6000>games up if anyone wants to join
13:52<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: we will see; that is the only bug in WT3 I know about, which happened from time to time .. till now every commit was correct (this mostly due to the way it generates the commits)
13:53<@TrueBrain>for WT3 it is simply not possible to generate a commit which only contains parts of the changes (for a given language)
13:53<@TrueBrain>so the only sane thing to say, is that it only fails to switch off the change flag
13:53<@TrueBrain>but we will see :)
13:54<@Rubidium>check the website bug tracker for WT3 bugs :)
13:54<@TrueBrain>I only remember complaining the language was hanging (the commit, that is)
13:54<@TrueBrain>not the first language which does so, not the last I am sure :)
13:56<Bluelight>How do leave a game without breaking connection.. I mean the server say leave sometimes when other leaves, but when I leave it say connection lost..
13:56<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: the bugs reports for WT3 is kind of small :p
13:57<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: so are the bug reports for OpenTTD is you don't count OSX and suspected memory errors
13:58<@TrueBrain>Rubidium: you tell me to check the website :) I find one bug report about Croatian, which is now fixed .. one I can't understand ("If I change this after pressing Save, it doesn't save" .. DAH!), and one long-going bug
13:58<@TrueBrain>so I wonder what I had to look at
13:58<Bluelight>There is one guy playing on my server after all these hours.. Ohh well.
13:59<@Rubidium>FS#3320 is probably more something like: if I change the 'root' gender, the genders of the cases aren't updated; if I change the gender of a case all genders become 'all'
13:59<@TrueBrain>ah .. didn't read that in it :p
13:59<@TrueBrain>but if that are all problems with WT3, I believe I did a very good job :)
14:00<@Rubidium>then reply saying you don't understand the problem and let him explain it again, possibly with images or so
14:00<@TrueBrain>read what I just did?
14:00<@Rubidium>argh... php is *SLOW* again
14:01<@TrueBrain>we will check that out another day :)
14:02<AC6000>O_o is 22,000,000 liters of oil a bit much for a ship, or is it just me?
14:02<luukland>try deleting some newgrfs
14:03<AC6000>oh, i forgot i have the Very Large Ships GRF on :P
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14:19<Wolf01>hello :
14:20<Terkhen>hi Wolf01
14:20<AC6000>!seen Chrill
14:21<AC6000>awwww, that don't work?
14:23-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
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14:29<luukland>@seen Chrill
14:29<@DorpsGek>luukland: Chrill was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 0 hours, 27 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Chrill> Average speed of 313km/h :P
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14:31<AC6000>ahhhh, i'm used to using ! :P
14:33<Sacro>AC6000: it's you!
14:33<AC6000>yes it is :P
14:33<Sacro>bah, stalking me from many angles
14:33<Sacro>no wonder i'm perplexed!
14:33<AC6000>maybe <_<
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15:26<frosch123>let's do something against the sadness
15:28<Wolf01>(I'm browsing my old bookmarks looking for sites to save with httrack)
15:31*Sacro notes the link
15:33<Wolf01>nothing for you, this time
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15:45<Nite_Owl>Hello all
15:47<Wolf01>hello Nite_Owl
15:48<Nite_Owl>Hello Wolf01
15:48-!-Nick [] has joined #openttd
15:49<Nick>I need some help
15:49<Nick>im really bad with trains
15:49<Nick>would anyone do a game with me
15:49<Nick>and use mostly trains so I can see different techniques
15:50<Nick>anyone D;
15:51<Alberth>why not join a few MP games as spectator, and watch?
15:51<Alberth>there are plenty of servers
15:51<Nick>I dont know why but i cant join them
15:51-!-heffer [] has quit [Quit: heffer]
15:52<Nick>I can't click on join game
15:52<@Rubidium>find a server that's using the same version as you're using
15:52<Alberth>another option is to download a few save games, and have a look at them
15:52<@Rubidium>i.e. one with a green square behind it's name
15:53-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:53<Nick>how can I know if they use the same version?
15:54<Alberth>it has a green square behind its name?
15:54<Nick>they all have red dots after the server
15:54<frosch123>and it doesn't say "version mismatch"
15:54<@Rubidium>what version of OpenTTD are you using?
15:55<Nick>i think its OpenTTD 0.5.2-RC1
15:55<frosch123>then update
15:55<@Rubidium>oh, very likely there are no servers for that version :)
15:55<Nick>to update to I have to download something manually or its automatic?
15:55<frosch123>there are plenty of 0.7.5 and 1.0.0-beta2 servers
15:56<frosch123>go to and download stable 0.7.5 or testing 1.0.0-beta2
15:57<@Rubidium>I'd say go for the stable release. There'll be servers for that for longer
15:57<Nick>Ok i googled and found it,thank you all gentlemans
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16:01<Nick>How do I put a password on my company?
16:02-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
16:02<@Rubidium>go to your company view window
16:02<@Rubidium>and search for the button saying "password"
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16:15<Nick>Anyone wants to start a game?
16:16<AC6000>i might start one up in a bit...
16:16-!-ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:16<ss23>I would be scared playing with anyone in here
16:16<ss23>I would just feel like I'm going to get owned >.>
16:17<AC6000>in MW2, yes, you would :P
16:17<Nick>i started playing 1 week ago
16:17<ss23>I think I would get owned regardless of game :P
16:17<Nick>alright ill try to make a game
16:17<ss23>Cept for... maybe CS:S, or multiplayer solitare ;)
16:17<ss23>I own at those
16:18*AC6000 pulls out his ACR
16:18<Nick>what map is the first one in single player?
16:19<Nick>ok I made the game
16:19<Nick>how do I give the informations?
16:19<@Belugas>you ... supply the data
16:20<Nick>how do I do that?
16:21<@Belugas>i was joking...
16:21<@Belugas>what informations you want to give?
16:22<Nick>the game info so people here can join my game
16:23<frosch123>why don't you just join one of the hundreds of empty servers?
16:24<PeterT>That would be too simple.
16:25<Nick>seems there is none
16:25-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
16:25<Nick>can you create a game or something...I'm completely lost
16:26<void^>click on "Find Server"
16:26<PeterT>Nick: I see plenty of free servers:
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16:48<Ammler>liblzo2 seems not available on suse
16:48<PeterT>I couldn't get liblzo2 working with MSYS
16:48<PeterT>using Rubidium's instructions
16:48<PeterT>doesn't want to make
16:49<Ammler>he, it is called liblzo2-2 on suse
16:50<planetmaker>he :-P lzo2 is funny, hiding under various names
16:50<planetmaker>I had to use lzo2 instead of liblzo2
16:50<Ammler>on mac?
16:52<Ammler>so you symlinked it or how did openttd detect it?
16:55<TinoDidriksen>TrueBrain, did you ever get OS X to run in VBox? If not, it's now much easier, at least for Leopard: - Snow Leopard requires some patching.
16:55<Ammler> /lib/
16:58<@Belugas>that it IT!!
16:58-!-Sweet|Home [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:58-!-rhaeder1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:58<@Belugas>good night!!!!!
16:58<Nite_Owl>later Belugas
16:58<@Rubidium>night Belugas
16:58<@Belugas>bye guys :) enjoy the rest of the night!
16:58<@Rubidium>TinoDidriksen: you are late
16:59<TinoDidriksen>Thought so, but figured better to be sure.
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17:03<Ammler>what is this liblzo2 for?
17:04<planetmaker>Ammler: it's the successor of minilzo ^
17:04-!-Lapsus [] has joined #openttd
17:04<planetmaker>for savegames
17:04<Lapsus>Hello! :3
17:04<Ammler>so quite required
17:04<PeterT>Hello Lapsus
17:04<planetmaker>yes indeed, Ammler
17:05<Ammler>hmm, why does detection fail :-/
17:05<planetmaker>since 10th(?) january
17:05<planetmaker>oh it does for you, too? ;-)
17:05<Lapsus>Would this be the right place to ask stupid questions about server hosting, or is there another channel for that? :P
17:05<planetmaker>I needed to apply some symlinks to expected paths.
17:06<PeterT>Lapsus, you're at the right place
17:06<planetmaker>for me it installed in /opt/local and the detection works only for /usr/local
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17:06<Lapsus>Right on
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17:08<Lapsus>So, I'm trying to host a dedicated server on XP sp3, but while it starts, it seems to be ignoring my .scr files. They're essentially direct copies of the .scr.examples, edited for the right port/server name/motd etc.
17:08<Lapsus>What am I probably forgetting to do?
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17:09<PeterT>are they in your global directory?
17:09<Ammler>well, the lib is in /lib
17:09<PeterT>eg C:\Documents and Settings\<username>\My Documents\OpenTTD\scripts
17:09<Ammler>I guess, the issue is the .2
17:09<Lapsus>They're in with my ottd installation, but I'll try moving them there.
17:10<planetmaker>what version do you have installed, Ammler ? IIRC 2.03 is current
17:10<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> liblzo2 seems not available on suse <-- what? it was just called "lzo" (or "lzo-devel") here
17:10<Ammler>ah, stupid me
17:12<Lapsus>PeterT: It still appears to be ignoring the scripts. I'm going by the fact that it's still trying to use the default port on
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, lzo is needed for TTD and ~pre-0.4 savegames afaik
17:12<Ammler>thanks Eddi|zuHause, I could have searched for lzo self ;-)
17:13<planetmaker>Lapsus: the port and IP are set in openttd.cfg - not in any scr
17:13<Lapsus>planetmaker: well darn, lol
17:13*Lapsus tries that
17:14<Ammler>Lapsus: you can also define with parameters on startup
17:14<Ammler>openttd --help
17:14<luukland>Can someone gimme an estimate on release 1.0.0? Is it going to be months/weeks?
17:14-!-Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
17:14<planetmaker>2 months
17:14<Ammler>both :-)
17:14<luukland>1 april again? :)
17:14<planetmaker>+/- 2 months ;-)
17:15<Ammler>around one month from 1st rc
17:15<luukland>Genious answer again ammler
17:15<Ammler>well, genious question :-P
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>luukland: the answers are going to get worse over time :p
17:15<planetmaker>^ when it's done basically.
17:15<luukland>Naah, its an annoying question that gets asked by everybody
17:15<luukland>Yeah I see Eddi
17:16<planetmaker>Especially as ther IS no answer as of now. Pretty sure
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>you should have known that beforehand...
17:16<planetmaker>At most a goal set in the mind of an precious stone
17:16<luukland>I see, yet I need to know if the server patches need to be updated to trunk :)
17:17<planetmaker>the answer is: yes
17:17<planetmaker>what do you expect?
17:17<Ammler>always :-P
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>the answer is: 42
17:17<luukland>42, hmmm isn't that fuy young hai?
17:17<luukland>or some other chinese dish?
17:17<Lapsus>planetmaker: That seems to have worked, thanks :3
17:17<Lapsus>Makes me wonder whyt the .scr files are there though
17:18<planetmaker>you're welcome, Lapsus
17:18<planetmaker>Lapsus: for announcements :-)
17:18<planetmaker>Like what the player gets displayed or alike
17:18<planetmaker>when joining
17:18<planetmaker>but... the wiki knows that in more detail, I reccon.
17:19<Lapsus>planetmaker: That still doesn't explain pre_dedicated.scr and on_dedicated.scr's example files caliming to set the IP, port, name and password.
17:19<planetmaker>But we use anyway ap+ wrapped around openttd in order to run the server :-P
17:19<planetmaker>Lapsus: well... I don't know :-) I never looked at those files longer than a few seconds.
17:19<luukland>or just some heavy patches with MYSQL connection
17:19<Lapsus>I plan to try ap+ eventually, but I don't need it yet.
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17:20<luukland>Yeah, how the hell would you be able to make a flexible campaign system then?
17:20<planetmaker>there's nowhere a DB attached to OpenTTD - except on the central content server maybe and the server list. Dunno though
17:21<planetmaker>ah, well, yes, you have it :-) both nicks start with L :-P
17:21<luukland>No, thats why some of us need to make it ourserlves :)
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>Lapsus: setting the IP is only needed when you have multiple network devices, and setting the port is only needed when running more than one server
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm... chuck is over way too quickly...
17:23<Lapsus>Eddi|zuHause: Would my guess that it needs my internal IP be correct?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>Lapsus: if you have only one network card, leaving it at is enough
17:24<luukland>Lapsus, only think you need to do is open the right ports
17:24<luukland>forward *
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>(means "listen on any address")
17:24<Lapsus>Eddi|zuHause: I've got two virtual devices for vmware, so I'm setting the ip just to be safe.
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17:25<Eddi|zuHause>Lapsus: if you want to bind it to one specific device, use the local IP of that device
17:25-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@] has joined #openttd
17:25<Lapsus>What's the default port again? :x
17:25<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
17:25-!-Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:26<Lapsus>Ah, thanks
17:26-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@2002:5ce2:d07e:1:197f:34da:6b9f:b4f8] has joined #openttd
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>Lapsus: usually it's not needed to set ip and port at the server, only forwarding the ports at the router
17:27<Lapsus>Well, not setting them wasn't working, but I'll try it again anyways now that I've forwarded the default port.
17:29<Lapsus>Ah, it's working now, thanks guys :3
17:30<luukland>dont forget to send us a donation! :)
17:31<Lapsus>Once I've paid my debts, I will :P
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17:41<AC6000> anyone care to join? :P
17:42<PeterT>once I install 0.7.5
17:42<luukland>:P Better server ^^
17:42<PeterT>Luukland: shut up, you have like 10 clients :-P
17:42<PeterT>and you advertise your servers EVERYwhere
17:42<planetmaker>and a modified binary :-P
17:43<luukland>not anymore ;)
17:43<luukland>Its been cancelled :)
17:43<planetmaker>your servers are not patched?
17:43-!-Elessar [~tanguy@2a01:e34:ee8f:150:201:c0ff:fe04:d58b] has joined #openttd
17:43<planetmaker>I bet you have server-side patches
17:44<luukland>I have only 1 patch
17:44<PeterT>AC6000: you still there?
17:44<planetmaker>see. A modified binary ;-)
17:44<PeterT>luukland: therefore they are patched
17:44<PeterT>one patch == patched
17:44<luukland>dang, I am half sleeping already
17:44<luukland>must have misread
17:44<Elessar>Do you know how to use 32bpp tarballs? Put them in ~/.openttd/data, enable a 32bpp blitter, and there is something else to do?
17:44<Yexo>extract the opengfx tars
17:44<Yexo>and make sure you use opengfx
17:45<PeterT>Yexo: That's a requirement for 32bpp?
17:45<Elessar>I use OpenGFX, sure.
17:45<Elessar>As I did not even download the original GFX.
17:45<Yexo>but the 32bpp files have to be in a directory with the same name as the grf file they're replacing the graphics of
17:45<AC6000>yea,i'm here
17:46<Yexo>Elessar: and if you downloaded extra-zoom-level graphics you need a modified binary
17:46<PeterT>I'm getting a GRF
17:46<Elessar>Yexo: I did not.
17:46<AC6000>kk, take your time :)
17:46<Elessar>And, sorry, I started using the original GFX, and used the internal download manager to get OpenGFX.
17:46<PeterT>I've updated that to the best of my ability
17:47<Elessar>PeterT: I do not whan extra zoom level, unless it is needed.
17:47*AC6000 spots a typo :P
17:47<PeterT>* AC6000 fixes it, because it's a wiki.
17:48<Elessar>Okay, wait, I got contradictory instructions.
17:48<Elessar>Let me sum up.
17:48<Elessar>I use OpenGFX and OpenSFX, from ~/.openttd/data.
17:48<AC6000>wow, i like that pic in the wiki ._.
17:48<Elessar>Is it possible to use 32bpp with such a setup?
17:49<Yexo>yes Elessar
17:49<Yexo>but it might be needed to extract the opengfx tar file
17:49<Elessar>Extracted or unextracted, it is the same, to the game?
17:50<Yexo>normally yes, but from reading some reports in the graphic sections there are problems with 32bpp files if you don't extract them
17:50<Elessar>Okay, no problem, let me extract it.
17:50<PeterT>AC6000: I can't seem to join
17:50<PeterT>I've got the long vehicles GRF, but it still doesn't allow me to join
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17:51<AC6000>one sec
17:51<Elessar>Okay, so, now, I use OpenGFX as a directory.
17:51<Elessar>Now, I got a tarball for a 32bpp [module, pack?].
17:51<Elessar>Should I extract it too?
17:52<Yexo>it won't hurt if you do
17:52*SpComb prods gathers
17:52<Yexo>then you need to compare the directory names inside the 32bpp tar to the names of the grf files in the opengfx package
17:53<Yexo>they need to be the same
17:53<Elessar>They are not.
17:54<Elessar>Here is the two directories from my 32bpp tarball: sprites/trg1r/ and sprites/openttdd/.
17:54<Yexo>you need to rename sprites/trg1r/ to sprites/opengfx1r/ (or whatever the exact name of that grf file is)
17:54<Elessar>Whereas the grf fles of OpenGFX are all starting in ogfx.
17:55<Elessar>Well, there is a ogfx1_base.grf, but no ogfx1r*.
17:56<Elessar>Ooops, sorry.
17:56<Elessar>Well, there is a ogfx1_base.grf, but no ogfx1r*.
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17:57<Yexo>1R -> base, IR -> logos, CR -> arctic, HR -> tropical, TR -> toyland, openttdw -> extra
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17:58<Elessar>So I should rename it to ogfx1_base, I suppose.
17:58<Yexo>so sprites/ogfx1_base/ and sprites/ogfxe_extra/
17:59<Elessar>Hmm, I stille have a directory I did not rename: openttdd.
17:59<Yexo>sprites/openttdd/ should be renamed to sprites/ogfxe_extra/
18:00<Elessar>Err, sorry, I had two directories, openttdd and openttdw.
18:00<Elessar>It sounds like DOS and Windows.
18:00<Yexo>then renamed the openttdw one and leave the openttdd one unaltered
18:00<Elessar>Indeed, they have the same content.
18:00<Yexo>I think if you look in the openttdd and openttdw directories you'll find the same content, only maybe with different sprite numbers
18:01<Elessar>Now, as I also enabled a 32 bpp blitter, is it all good?
18:01<Yexo>it should be :)
18:01<Elessar>Let me try.
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18:02<Elessar>That pack was a main toolbar replacement. It also replaces the mouse pointer, with another one I find horrible. :-)
18:02<Elessar>And is missing the pause icon. But appart from that, it is perfect.
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18:04<Elessar>Okay, thank you.
18:04<gathers>SpComb: ah, hi!
18:05<Elessar>Just by curiosity, was all the necessary because OpenGFX changes some naming scheme compared to the original GRF?
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18:08<Elessar>When I understand all the 32 bpp installation process – I think there is only a name conversion to do –, I would like to document it in the wiki, and propose a conversion script.
18:09<Elessar>Because I wonder if there are not more people playing with NewGFX than with the original files, specially now that the game does not need them at all.
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18:22<Ammler>Elessar: you should tell the 32bpp guys, they should make a newgrf ;-)
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18:35<gathers>Is there a point in making a simple "warn before closing industry" patch like the one I recently posted at the forum, or is that supposed to be handled by NewGRFs?
18:35<Terkhen>good night
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18:36<SpComb>gathers: I haven't even glanced at that myself, but certainly at least ECS warns about it beforehand
18:37<gathers>I mostly play without any newgrfs, so I don't realy know how they behave..
18:37<SpComb>tsk, uncivilized man
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>gathers: i don't think that should be handled by a patch
18:38<@Rubidium> :)
18:39<gathers>the current behaviour is sometimes quite annoying though, if you get unlucky and something closes right when you send the first train
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18:40<@Rubidium>also happens in real life
18:40<SpComb>Rubidium: would it be too big a change to have the title screen *center* the initial view position?
18:40<gathers>SpComb, you prodded me before?
18:40<SpComb>gathers: indeed, I was looking at the autosep patch
18:40<PeterT>gathers: hardly ever happened to me :-)
18:40<gathers>Rubidium, if I had the chance of applying my patch to real life, I would :P
18:41<@Rubidium>SpComb: probably not, but then... one has to understand viewport magic
18:41<SpComb>gathers: mostly trying to find some docs as to how the algorithm actually works :P
18:41<@Rubidium>gathers: well, use that industry neutraliser thingy
18:42<Lapsus>Hey, just wondering, but can anyone with 1.0.0-beta2 see my server? it's [GV]loltrains at
18:42<@Rubidium>can you see it at
18:42<luukland>if it gets listed it can be accessed
18:43<SpComb>Rubidium: you'd have the advantage of the menu dialog being way more predictable as to the area it covers - pretty much the same pixels in each case
18:43<gathers>SpComb: I'm mostly resurrecting an old patch, so I'm not sure if there are any ;)
18:43<Lapsus>oh, thanks
18:43<@Rubidium>SpComb: but you'll also have to keep it centered when resizing
18:43<SpComb>gathers: so it's a little bit of magic? :)
18:43<SpComb>Rubidium: true, that would probably affect all viewports then
18:43<@Rubidium>which basically means: more work
18:44<SpComb>but, imo, that would be the best behaviour anyways...
18:44<SpComb>(and it's how my giant-screenshot-ui works :)
18:44<gathers>Rubidium: any way that I could transform my warn-before-closure patch into something useful?
18:44<SpComb>(well, not for resizing)
18:44<@Rubidium>and probably mean: viewport locations instead of top-left specifying the center of the screen, which is massive rewrite stuff
18:44<luukland>time to get some rest
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18:45<@Rubidium>gathers: no idea; I'm (personally) totally not interested in such a 'feature'
18:46<Lapsus>Okay, I've got the right port forwarded to the right system, I've opened the port on my firewall, and the server is actually running. Any thoughts on why it can't be seen from the serverlist?
18:46<Eddi|zuHause><SpComb> Rubidium: would it be too big a change to have the title screen *center* the initial view position? <-- i think it's a bad idea, as now you can be sure that areas north and west of the viewport will never be visible (and thus can be 'abused'
18:46<Yexo>did you open both tcp and udp?
18:46<PeterT>try 'server_port'
18:47<gathers>SpComb: If you want I could send you a git patch so you get my tree, that might help somewhat. Though most of my commits deal with updating the timetable. The part that does the separation is still mostly as per the original patch.
18:47<SmatZ>long story short, there was water in my monitor
18:47<SmatZ>but it works flawlessly now again :)
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18:47<Lapsus>Yexo: yes
18:47<SpComb>gathers: I use git myself as well, but only internally so far
18:47<@Rubidium>SmatZ: Maurice Moss could've used such a monitor
18:47<PeterT>how many fingers?
18:47<Lapsus>PeterT: what?
18:48<SmatZ>Rubidium: hehe :)
18:48<PeterT>server_port in console
18:48<PeterT>what is the output?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>SmatZ: hmm, i think i missed the "long" part of the story ;)
18:49<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: it's so complicated I don't dare to explain it in English ;)
18:49<SpComb>the Zephyris line of title games already feels like the standard one to me
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: at first glance, i like the "Zuu" one the most
18:50<SpComb>feels familiar
18:50<Lapsus>PeterT: 3979
18:50<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: voting is in 4 weeks :)
18:50<PeterT>and you've forwarded to that port, Lapsus
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i'll try to get mine to a useable state till then ;)
18:51<PeterT>I prefered Mark's
18:51<SpComb>although the "OPEN TTD" logo really needs some work on the larger res's :)
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it does not look good on desert
18:52<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: it has something to do with water frozen in tubes, water going where it should because of some obstruction and such
18:53<Lapsus>PeterT: WAN 3979 is going to 3979 on TCP and UDP. Firewall allows all traffic to on port 3979
18:53<Lapsus>er, 0.3 on the forst one
18:53<Lapsus>first, even
18:53<PeterT>SpComb: Shouldn't it be "OPENTTD"?
18:53<PeterT>not "OPEN TTD"?
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: hysterical raisins?
18:54<PeterT>Rubidium: It seems you are using verison 1.0.0?
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18:56<gathers>does anyone have the ITiM patch as a hq queue or in any format other than a big patch? if so I'd really appreciate a copy :)
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>i think someone in the thread mentioned he had the queues of an older version
18:57<SpComb>I need to come up with some better solution than generating these .patch's by hand
18:57<@Rubidium>gathers: what do you intend to do with it? The patches are over a year old and don't apply AT ALL on anything nearly recent-ish
18:58<Nick>Hi everyone
18:58<Yexo>hello Nick
18:58<Nick>does anyone of you know a way to stop the trains slowing down when they go on a slope?
18:58<Nick>I've heard of the ttd patch
18:58<Yexo>try enabling realistic acceleration
18:58<Nick>but im not sure
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>gathers: parts of the logic have been included in trunk, and the GUI needs a major (if not complete) rewrite
18:59<Yexo>are you actually playing openttd?
18:59<gathers>Rubidium: I want to see how much he's changed the patch from magicbuzz that I'm starting from
18:59<@Rubidium>ttdpatch doesn't work with openttd
18:59<Yexo>ok, ttdpatch is for the original transport tycoon deluxe
18:59<Yexo>but most of it's improvements (and a lot more) are already in openttd
18:59<Nick>So I have to buy it?
18:59<Lapsus>So then, anyone have any ideas why I can't seem to host a visible server?
18:59<Yexo>so you don't need it either
18:59<Nick>ah ok
18:59<Nick>thank you
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>Lapsus: 99% of the cases it's a router/firewall issue
19:00<gathers>SpComb: what steps do you want to avoid?
19:01<@Rubidium>Lapsus: something at 'your' side of the internet blocks it. Can't say whether it's at ISP level, or some local network configuration, but on OpenTTD's side nothing is blocked
19:01<Nick>And another question,whats better? -using trains or road vehiculs
19:01<Yexo>whatever you like more :)
19:01<Xaroth>depends on your playstyle
19:01<Nick>ah ok
19:01<Xaroth>ttd is a sandbox game
19:01<Xaroth>if it's hard to survive, you're doing it wrong
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>Nick: trains tend to be the most complex (and thus most interesting) ones
19:01<Nick>i know its really easy
19:02<Nick>yeah thats what i've discovered
19:02<Xaroth>trains can be really easy to get going, but really complex to get going good
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19:02<gathers>Eddi|zuHause: I know, I tried to go through it piece by piece manually but didn't get very far..
19:02<Nick>alright guys
19:02<dydt>Hi, what type of algorithm is used in openttd to determine which tiles are on screen?
19:02<Nick>i gtg
19:02<Xaroth>and if you want to know the difference between going and going good, you should check out some of the openttdcoop maps
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>Nick: road vehicles are easier, but don't have as much capacity
19:03<@Rubidium>gathers: (don't be fooled by the date though)
19:03<Xaroth>Nick: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive
19:03<Yexo>dydt: no idea, but that code is in src/viewport.cpp
19:03<gathers>Rubidium: thanks a lot! :)
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>dydt: afaik it's a simple linear transformation, and checking the screen boundaries + maximum sprite size (256 pixels)
19:04<@Rubidium>gathers: don't expect the binary to work though; it's somewhere half-way in a merge IIRC
19:05<SpComb>gathers: having to generate a .patch for each branch
19:05<gathers>Rubidium: I'll report any bugs or crashes on flyspray ;)
19:06<@Rubidium>gathers: uhm... NO
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>dydt: maybe you find hints about it in the discussion to the "more height levels" patch, as they must have changed this part
19:06<@Rubidium>it's some third party patch that the actual developer isn't even happy with to post on the forum for usage
19:06<dydt>Eddi|zuHause: thanks i'll look into it
19:06<gathers>Rubidium: I know, was just kidding! :P
19:06<@Rubidium>so it's definitely not trunk material and as such bug reports for it won't be fixed by us
19:14<gathers>SpComb: I have a script that makes patches for me, vs trunk and then vs cargodist, with svn-rev in the filename. But not for each branch.
19:17<SpComb>gathers: fonso has some kind of Makefile for it
19:18<PeterT>ah yes >
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>man, it's difficult to explain to people why they shouldn't expect any daylength patch in trunk in the near or even middle future
19:22<PeterT>it's easy > "because we said so"
19:23<SpComb>"Just don't try to understand what it does when you look at your vehicles, I just gave up myself. The only matter is that after some time separation is ok"
19:23<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's unexplainable, especially on that German forum you're probably speaking about
19:24<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: well, it depends on what you expect in terms of a variable daylength's effect on gameplay
19:24<SpComb>it's perfectly playable and enjoyable with a couple fixes, but yes, it does change the gameplay
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: but "perfectly playable" is even one step further away from trunk as "well tested"
19:26<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: What topic are you looking at? I can't find a development section
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19:26<PeterT>this one?
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: as Rubidium mentioned, it's in the german forum
19:27<PeterT>I have a translator
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19:28<PeterT>what is "durchzuexerzieren"?
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: that is not the exact thread i was talking about
19:29<PeterT>the 1.0.0-beta2 one, Eddi?
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: and it's the 2nd participle of "durchexerzieren" ;)
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19:31<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: obviously google translator has not managed all fine details of german grammar ;)
19:31<PeterT>a bit hard to read the thread
19:32<PeterT>You have quite a few posts, Eddi|zuHause
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19:32<PeterT>1 percent of all posts
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19:32<PeterT>1 percent of all posts
19:32<SpComb>curiously enough, I know how to read german
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: it's not that difficult to have 1% of the posts at a forum with less than 100 active people :p
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19:34<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: well, my view is that changing the daylength will change the gameplay, and it's impossible to not change it
19:34<SpComb>and apart from a couple of those, the changes are benign enough that I can accept them
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: just compare my 850 posts to MB's 2500 or Bernhards 7000 posts
19:34<PeterT>yeah, I saw
19:34<PeterT>Bernhard is the admin, I'm guessing?
19:34<PeterT>or a very overly-active member?
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>he is one of the oldest members...
19:36<@orudge>at one point, there was a plan for the German TT forums to merge with TT-Forums
19:36<@orudge>but in the end it never went through
19:36<PeterT>How do you merge a forum?
19:37<PeterT>you would have to move all the posts?
19:37<@orudge>in this case, the plan was all the posts and users would be moved to tt-forums, yes
19:37<PeterT>or you, orudge, would make a new section
19:37<@orudge>obviously, separate categories
19:37<PeterT>I think it would be a great idea
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: i don't know why it failed, but currently i don't see a need to merge either...
19:38<@Rubidium>argh... I don't like the sound my computer is making right now... sounds too much like head scratching platter :(
19:39<ss23>Rubidium: Raid for win
19:39<@Rubidium>as long as it's a sane raid yes, but it's a laptop
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>laptop raid sounds fun ;)
19:40<ss23>Laptops are redundant
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19:42<@Rubidium>yeah, in the same way RAID0 is redundant!
19:43<SpComb>redundant data
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but "AID0" does not sound very well ;)
19:43<ss23>Definitly not the same kind of redundancy >.<
19:43<@orudge>Eddi|zuHause: well, indeed, but as I say, this was quite a few years ago now
19:44<SpComb>gathers: but myes, I'll certainly give autosep a try... so far, I've done a lot of manual separation - clone trains at two different depots and skip orders :)
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19:44<SpComb>gathers: I guess what the feature mostly needs is strong docs (both user and code)
19:44<SpComb>I'll try patching it in and see if I can make some sense out of the code in that context, but I had trouble following just the diff itself
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>orudge: my experience is that without a strict separation of language forums, more people who don't speak the language poke in and "disturb" the flow...
19:45<SpComb>gathers: do you have any opinions as to future plans for trunk?
19:45<gathers>SpComb: I've in fact not spent a lot of time in the actual separation part myself ;) Want a git format-patch?
19:45<SpComb>gathers: the patch in your thread looks fine
19:46<SpComb>but I've barely even understood trunk's timetable stuff yet
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19:47<gathers>SpComb: I had the idea of going through the separation part more closely and rewriting it myself if needed. It works, but it might be made better.
19:48<SpComb>well yes, one needs to understand the code to be able to maintain it :P
19:48<gathers>I had to add things like ignoring stopped vehicles, and there are still some bugs with those.
19:49<SpComb>but it's already almost 3am here
19:49<gathers>yes, it's actually two patches in one.. mine that updates the timetable and magicbuzz's that separates ;)
19:49<SpComb>this is for tomorrow
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>you mean today. :)
19:49<gathers>almost 2am here
19:49<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: to-morrow, as in, morrow -> morning
19:50<SpComb>you know what I mean
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19:53<PeterT>oh, you guys :-)
19:54<gathers>off to bed now, but I'll probably be here tomorrow/today
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21:18<nick>Hello everyone
21:19<ss23>Hi Doctor Nick
21:19<ss23>Sorry, couldn't resist :P
21:20<AC6000_>no, its hello everybody :P
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21:22<PeterT>AC6000_: No, it's Hello everyone
21:22<AC6000_>you sure?
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21:23<PeterT><nick> Hello everyone
21:23<ss23>Close >.<
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21:23<PeterT>pretty damn sure
21:23<KenjiE20|LT>reference fail
21:23<PeterT>KenjiE20|LT fail
21:23<KenjiE20|LT>seriously, how do you fail to get that reference
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21:45<Eddi|zuHause>seriously, not everybody has english as native language, and thus won't get many english references
21:46<PeterT>except English is my native language
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, i seriously don't know the reference, so i can't judge if you're missing it or just being sarcastic
21:48<PeterT>I really don't know
21:48<PeterT>google seems to suggest Doctor Nick is some kind of Matt Groening character
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23:07<nick>Hey guys,I've got another question ->when I downloaded the newest version the town were more equivalent to each other,but now its the same as before
23:07<nick>how can i make it more balanced?
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 20 00:00:36 2010