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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-21

---Logopened Thu Jan 21 00:00:36 2010
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01:16<Sev_1>hmm, I've noticed the running cost stops changing shortly after a train is commisioned, even with varying loads, acceleration and whatnot.
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02:03<Lapsus>Hey, is there anything inherently wrong with this junction aside from some missing signals? http://imgkk.com/i/UD3Ye9.gif
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02:06<Tera>you can remove the signals front of the station
02:10<Lapsus>okay
02:17<@peter1138>no need to though
02:17<@peter1138>the block signal is wrong though
02:20<Lapsus>Block signal?
02:20<Lapsus>If you mean at the inflow to the station, it's a one-way PBS
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02:37<@peter1138>no, i mean the exit
02:37<@peter1138>the block signal
02:38-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@138.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
02:38<Terkhen>good morning
02:38<Lapsus>peter1138: I'm guessing because of the lack of signalling after it, or what?
02:38<Lapsus>'morning Terkhen :v
02:42<Lapsus>Also, can openttd resolve addresses to IPs when adding a server to the serverlist, or do I need to give people my IP directly?
02:44-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc1e10.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
02:44<Terkhen>I use my DynDNS address when I act as server
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02:46<Lapsus>That's exactly what I needed to know, thanks :3
02:46<Lapsus>saves me the trouble of having to learn tcl to modify ap+ :v
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02:47<Terkhen>I don't know if a dynamic address will be good for a dedicated server, though
02:49<Lapsus>It's only for a small community, and it's on a dedicated system in my house anyways
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03:29<sparr>the wiki doesn't seem to detail train speed/acceleration for original behavior, instead of realistic
03:29<sparr>anyone got info on that?
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03:45<Terkhen>besides checking the code directly... try the TTDPatch wiki, maybe it is documented there
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03:51<roboboy>hello
03:53-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-44-188.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
03:54<Nite_Owl>Hello all
03:59<Nite_Owl>So what exactly does the 'feeder leg percentage' refer to in that new advanced option? Is it the overall percentage of that total delivery's profit that only that feeder leg receives with the remainder going to the final leg? Or is it the percentage of the profit that the feeder leg gets just from the leg it travels?
04:02*Nite_Owl is confused by his own phrasing but cannot do better at the moment
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04:28<Phazorx>morning
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05:00<TrueBrain>in 20 lines I have a webserver running .. you got to love Python :)
05:00<TrueBrain>anyone found a distance matrix yesterday? :p
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05:03<Phazorx>hrm... run into interesting ethical question... I suggested a game type/GRF/Scenarios for economic model supporting warfare logistics... with emphasis on consumption level tiers cargo having very different expiry values and industries have major change in amounts of produced/required cargo... but them i was stomped for violating OpenTTD mission statement and brining militaristic aspects int totally pacifistic game... is that really the case?
05:03-!-Maedhros [~Maedhros@calendular.dur.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
05:04<wysiwtf>yeah and theres a border moving around and the cpu player has to build on the other side of it ;)
05:05<Phazorx>well i wouldnt go that far
05:05<Nite_Owl>The vast majority of the military themed ideas I have ever seen get shot down
05:06<Nite_Owl>the few exceptions are graphic changes to the disasters
05:06<Phazorx>Nite_Owl: military part in this case would be appropriate cargoes pretty much
05:07<Nite_Owl>tanks, guns, ammo, etc. - very much frowned on by the development team
05:07<planetmaker>Even then he's right, though. There are forum threads. I'm too lazy to search for them, though
05:08<Phazorx>Nite_Owl: think about medkits, wounded and reinfrcements instead then :)
05:08<Phazorx>tanks and guns wont be fun in terms of expiry though
05:09<Nite_Owl>planetmaker: do you have an answer for the question I asked before <scroll up>
05:10<planetmaker>I read it. But I have no definite answer.
05:11<planetmaker>I *assume* it's the amount you'd get paid if it was delivered there
05:11<planetmaker>(assuming it's the 1st part of a journey)
05:11-!-Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
05:12<planetmaker>But I didn't check the source for the details
05:13<Nite_Owl>so then each leg would be paid independently of the others which means ideally it should be set to 100%
05:13<Nite_Owl>why get paid less than what the journey is worth
05:14<Nite_Owl>but if that is the case then why have a percentage setting at all
05:15<Nite_Owl>who would want to be paid less than what the trip would normally pay
05:15-!-roboboy [7248f395@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
05:15<Noldo>when the feeder drops it's cargo off there is no way to know how much the cargo will generate real income when it's really delivered
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05:16<Nite_Owl>which is why I am leaning towards the first option I asked about
05:17<Nite_Owl>that the percentage setting is what percentage that feeder leg would get out of the whole journey
05:17<planetmaker>well. The percentage setting can change it such that you don't get paid everything. You latest statement makes more sense
05:17<planetmaker>Possibly that's the solution
05:17<planetmaker>well... look up the commit and check the changelog associated with it :-)
05:20<Eddi|zuHause>it only changes the virtual transfer profit
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>the actual payment is still on the final leg, and still 100%
05:21<Nite_Owl>so then my last statement was correct
05:23<Nite_Owl>makes sense - if your feeder leg is long and the final delivery run is short then you want a higher percent going to the feeder leg
05:23<Nite_Owl>of course it is a global setting...
05:24<TrueBrain>General Request: http://openttd.org:8089/ <- does that give you guys the right country-code?
05:24<@Rubidium>nope :)
05:24<Nite_Owl>so no variation in feeder leg lengths
05:24<TrueBrain>Rubidium: your bouncer is in CA, so it is correct
05:25<@Rubidium>no, it's in Amsterdam
05:25<Nite_Owl>it worked here
05:25<TrueBrain>Rubidium: your bouncer announces itself as being in CA, so it is correct :p
05:25<TrueBrain>mine nicely says NL, so :p
05:25<__ln>got FI, correctly
05:25<@Rubidium>it's maybe that the IPv6s were first requested in Montreal (hi Belugas :))
05:25-!-Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>('::ffff:84.183.123.60', 10503, 0, 0) Your country code: DE
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>what's 10503?
05:26<TrueBrain>client-port
05:26<roboboy>bah my internet is slow
05:27<roboboy>my country code is correct
05:28<Maedhros>it's been "connecting" for about 3 minutes so far, for me
05:28<TrueBrain>by the fact 10 people loaded the page, and 4 only replied, I have to conclude the other 6 agree on the result as well? :p
05:28<TrueBrain>Maedhros: port blocked?
05:28<Noldo>TrueBrain: I got 3 good FIs
05:28<Maedhros>TrueBrain: probably. this is a university network, after all
05:29<TrueBrain>k ... so the results looks promising, good good :)
05:29<Nite_Owl>still working
05:29<TrueBrain>shutting down the server
05:29<Noldo>is it for the mirroring thing?
05:29<TrueBrain>now distance calculation ......
05:29<TrueBrain>yes
05:29<Phazorx>TrueBrain: matches in my case
05:30<TrueBrain>k, thank you all :)
05:30<Phazorx>heh back in ... 96? i made a very low cost mirror selection for some site
05:31<Phazorx>which loads set of hidden frames in each of which it requests a script from different mirrors that would reload the main frame using that mirrow
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05:31<Phazorx>*mirror... naturaly whichever does it first is the fastest for you, ignoring other aspects
05:32<Noldo>evil
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05:36<Nite_Owl>Ahhh '96 - the Internets was still just for cowboys back then... nerdy, geeky cowboys perhaps with very slow connections but it was still a wholesome place... none of that MMO crap to deal with...
05:36-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@138.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:36<Phazorx>welll in 97 MMOs were quit big
05:36<Phazorx>they were called MUDs tho
05:37-!-Xaroth___ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd
05:37<Nite_Owl>close but not quite the same thing
05:37<Phazorx>what exactly is the difference?
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>WoW is only a glorified MUD...
05:37<Phazorx>aside of 13 yearolds populating the moder alternative
05:38<Nite_Owl>MUDs did not have all of the glitz and glamor
05:38<roboboy>MUD's were text based if I remember correctly
05:38<Phazorx>Nite_Owl: there was more glamor in muds than there is in wow if you ask me
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>hence "glorified"...
05:39-!-Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:39<Phazorx>and roboboy yes, text and ascii gfx... very beautiful and clean
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05:39<Nite_Owl>MUDs were still in the realm of the user's imagination
05:40<Phazorx>brain for rendering fantasy images is still unsurpassed by any video card tho... and quite cheap solution too...
05:40<TrueBrain>orudge / peter1138: can you provide me with more exact graphical location of the server? (longitude / lattitude)
05:40<Noldo>???
05:40<Nite_Owl>nothing beats a brain
05:41*Nite_Owl waits for the drum roll
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05:42*Nite_Owl waits for someone else to provide the punch line
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, the discussion is turning a little sad...
05:43<Nite_Owl>No... oh well then no rim shot but we do have http://sadtrombone.com/
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>the other kind of sad...
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05:46<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: luckily my IRC client picks up on that and starts to lag :)
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05:50<Nite_Owl>later all
05:50-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-44-188.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>nite is over?
05:50-!-APTXderZweite [~APTX@ks32603.kimsufi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>good, because i'm starting to get awake now...
05:51*roboboy is watching tennis
05:51*planetmaker yawns
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05:57<Luukland>Guys is it possible that all Russian IP's have the same UNIQUE ID in multiplayer?
05:58<Luukland>The newly installed UNIQUE-ID checker is going all mad
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't be that unique then...
05:59<Luukland>indeed, I got 4 russian players, all different IP
05:59<Luukland>but all same Unique-ID
05:59<Luukland>Might be some bug :S
05:59<TrueBrain>I call it copy/paste
05:59<__ln>In Soviet Russia, ..........
06:00<Luukland>I could make a bug report about this if you like TrueBrain?
06:00<TrueBrain>I am just suprised to read unique-id is still there
06:00<Noldo>__ln: everyone is unique in the same way?
06:00<TrueBrain>I thought it was obsolete
06:00<@Rubidium>unique id isn't used for anything anyway
06:00<Luukland>Not really, we use it for autologin on the servers
06:01-!-ss23 [~ss23@121-72-161-213.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd
06:01<Luukland>its like a cookie :)
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what the unique id is about either...
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06:01<TrueBrain>well, then you should know it is in your openttd.cfg, so not as 'unique' as you might hope
06:01<TrueBrain>and that it is horribly broken, and should have been removed
06:01-!-ss23 [~ss23@121-72-161-213.dsl.telstraclear.net] has quit []
06:01<@Rubidium>oh... unique id is used for password hashes IIRC
06:02<@Rubidium>together with more random-ish data
06:02<Luukland>I see, in that case could you make a flyspray entry?
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>Luukland: part of the idea of a cookie is that the server has write permissions for it...
06:02<TrueBrain>Luukland: make one yourself
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06:02<Luukland>Certainly
06:03<Luukland>Eddi, the only purpose of this ID is to connect players ID to webaccount :)
06:03<Luukland>so if it got removed it would be very unfortunate
06:03<TrueBrain>Luukland: I once suggested a more sophisticated way of assigning unique-id (via a centralized user system :p :p), but never got any time to implement any of it
06:04<Luukland>Truebrain, you are right it is broken, when we ban ID, ppl can see the server, but get always a "Server is Full" message
06:05<TrueBrain>in that case: Rubidium , I strongly suggest to remove most traces of unique-id ;)
06:05<Luukland>Noooos :p
06:05<Luukland>That will break the whole server system
06:05-!-Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:05<TrueBrain>so make a patch for a better system ;)
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06:06<Luukland>Geez, I need a patch for everythin dont I :P
06:07<TrueBrain>that is the general idea of development
06:07<planetmaker>Luukland, the unique ID has a lifetime at most to the next re-install. Or deletion of the cfg
06:07<TrueBrain>and an uniqueness of the amount of copies
06:08<planetmaker>that said, we used it IIRC in wwottdgd/2 for identification purposes, too. But that was dih's part :-)
06:09<Luukland>Ghe ghe, indeed
06:09<Luukland>TrueBrain, development, I dont have time for ^^
06:09<TrueBrain>k, another round: http://openttd.org:8089/
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06:09<TrueBrain>should give you the closest mirror
06:09<TrueBrain>(the closest 3 in fact)
06:10<Luukland>uhu uhu
06:10<planetmaker>NL, CZ, GB
06:10<planetmaker>might be, if there's no DE
06:10<TrueBrain>NL, GB, CZ and US exist
06:10<TrueBrain>if you can use your own sanity to check if indeed the order is correct, that would be useful :)
06:10<Luukland>And what should I do with those mirrors?
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06:11<Luukland>Aye, well looks ok to me
06:11<planetmaker>BUT: I deduce points for giving an accuracy which is based purely on fiction
06:11<TrueBrain>planetmaker: in other words, is CZ closer than GB? (in reality?)
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06:11<planetmaker>TrueBrain, no, but distances up to the micrometer
06:11<TrueBrain>what are the distances?
06:12<Luukland>75KM from NL mirror
06:12<planetmaker>336.442169788 km, 481 and 814 (NL, CZ, GB)
06:12<planetmaker>you know where I am :-)
06:12<TrueBrain>owh, that was what you are talking about :p
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06:12<TrueBrain>yeah, but I was wonder if CZ really was closer
06:12<planetmaker>no way
06:13<TrueBrain>k, let me load another database, see if that improves it
06:13<planetmaker>well... NL distance might be correct. CZ... maybe. GB... maybe, too. Sounds big, though
06:14<@Rubidium>planetmaker: it's center-to-center
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06:14<planetmaker>Rubidium, centre of what? To the data centre? Yeah, that's why I cannot really judge
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06:15<@Rubidium>planetmaker: country
06:15<planetmaker>uhu
06:15<planetmaker>I thought geoIP would take the IP and try to locate it better
06:15<@Rubidium>center of UK is a bit further than e.g. London
06:15<planetmaker>E.g. my IP can be located quite a lot better than centre of Germany
06:15<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I loaded the IPv6 COUNTRY database
06:16<Luukland>Guys, ignore my unique-id notice
06:16<Luukland>these russian ppl got some russian openttd website thing
06:16<planetmaker>yes. And share the cfg supposedly ;-)
06:16<TrueBrain>owh, was that what I said? OWH DARN!
06:17-!-Penda [~Penda@host-83-166-20-174.hernonet.se] has joined #openttd
06:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18875 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: remove some unneeded bits from the network protocol and improve the naming of some variables
06:18<Luukland>nooooooos
06:18<TrueBrain>that happens when you set things in motion
06:18<Luukland>me and my big mouth
06:18<TrueBrain>yup
06:18<TrueBrain>so now we all point to you
06:18<TrueBrain>you did this
06:18<planetmaker>:-D
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i get connection refused...
06:19<Luukland>This version, also known as "assembly", is based on the official version of the game and contains a number of unofficial patches and new features. First of all, this version has a file of russianw.grf, adds Russian fonts into the game, as well as the choice of names of Russian cities
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>"openttd.org: Network unreachable"
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>what's that supposed to mean?
06:19<@peter1138>Luukland, yes, those crazy russains
06:19<TrueBrain>planetmaker: CZ really is closer to you :)
06:19<@peter1138>er, russians
06:20<@peter1138>ottd has support utf-8 for quite a long time now...
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06:20<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: that I am working on it, and it is no longer functional
06:20<Luukland>well planetmaker, they distribute openttd without license :)
06:20-!-Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:20<Luukland>So please, use your voice again
06:21<Luukland>http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=nl&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://open.ttdrussia.net/section2.php&rurl=translate.google.nl&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhjFpff2rR1O6H4RfgS7hegDUBJ9rA#download
06:21<Luukland>Link to open.ttdrussia
06:21<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: try it now
06:21<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/homesteading/cathedral-bazaar points 11, 13 and 17 come to mind :)
06:21<TrueBrain>planetmaker: I made the placement slightly better, still ..
06:22<@peter1138>Luukland, have you ever tried speaking to russians?
06:22<TrueBrain>I need more exact coordinated from peter1138 to make it better ;)
06:22<Luukland>Yes, thats where I got the weblink from in the first place
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>Distance to CZ mirror: 314.301566541 km Distance to NL mirror: 512.229366585 km Distance to GB mirror: 980.557971943 km
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06:23<Eddi|zuHause>300 sounds a little low, where in CZ is that mirror?
06:23<@Rubidium>13. ``Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away.'' :)
06:23<@peter1138>TrueBrain, from me? what?
06:23<TrueBrain>in the center of the country
06:23<TrueBrain>peter1138: latitude / longitude values of the mirror
06:23<@Rubidium>17. A security system is only as secure as its secret. Beware of pseudo-secrets.
06:23<@peter1138>oh
06:23<@peter1138>no idea
06:24<@peter1138>middle of london somewhere
06:24<TrueBrain>can you give any estimate of values?
06:24<TrueBrain>I know have 54N, 2W
06:24<TrueBrain>might not be the best :p
06:24<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: have you tried geoip-ing the ip of the mirror?
06:25<Luukland>Meh, normally nobody listens to me suggestions, and now, poof unique-id gone
06:25<Luukland>>_<
06:25<TrueBrain>Rubidium: yeah, but this is easier ;)
06:25<@Rubidium>I'd say 0W or 0E is a better guess if it's in London
06:25<@Rubidium>pediwikia says: 51°30′29″N 0°7′29″W
06:26<TrueBrain>51.8N / 0.8W is what GeoIP suggests
06:26<@Rubidium>that seems to be a good suggestion
06:26<TrueBrain>far outside of London
06:26<@peter1138>hmm, google maps doesn't give lat/long?
06:26<TrueBrain>in the link
06:27<TrueBrain>the ll_ value
06:27<@peter1138>51.522366,-0.083583
06:28<TrueBrain>k, tnx
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06:29<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause / planetmaker: does that improve the result?
06:30<@Rubidium>Distance to NL mirror: 17.7432537595 km
06:30<TrueBrain>Rubidium: Amsterdam ;)
06:30<planetmaker>Well... if 366/398/732 (CZ/NL/GB) is an improvement. Dunno
06:31<planetmaker>NL would seem better to me from my POV
06:31<planetmaker>but not from central Germany, of course
06:31<TrueBrain>can you ping them? (nl.binaries.openttd.org, cz.binaries.openttd.org, ..)
06:31<TrueBrain>no, it picked up more or less your location
06:31<Luukland>154KM from Enschede to Amsterdam
06:31<Luukland>well sounds reasonable
06:32<__ln>kelvin-mega
06:32<@peter1138>hmm, geoip is pretty... fail
06:32<planetmaker>ping times = 21 / 25 / 29 in NL / CZ / GB order
06:32<planetmaker>so NL would be faster
06:32<@peter1138>ping time != speed
06:32<TrueBrain>yup .. but clearly it doesn't really matter :)
06:33<TrueBrain>so the estimates are good enough for me
06:33<@Rubidium>yeah... the fastest wireless connection ever was earth-moon IIRC, but the ping is dreadful
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06:41<Phazorx>you shoul really use my ancient approach for mirror selection imo :)
06:41<Phazorx>dirty, simple and durable
06:42<TrueBrain>yeah, lets put the extra unneeded load, the tons of things that can go wrong, and most of all: javascript, in the deps of our mirror
06:43<TrueBrain>tnx, but no tnx :)
06:43<Phazorx>js?
06:43<Phazorx>wha javascript
06:43<Phazorx>what load
06:43<Phazorx>the files used in my case were empty with 304 headers
06:44<Phazorx>that's as low cost as you can get
06:44<TrueBrain>11:31 Phazorx which loads set of hidden frames in each of which it requests a script from different mirrors that would reload the main frame using that mirrow <- reload the mainframe == script
06:44<Phazorx>yeah... so you have 3 frame setup
06:44<Phazorx>1 visible 2 are not
06:45<Phazorx>reach of 2 hidden ones loads something like m1.site.top/pcikme.html and m2.site.top/pcikme.html
06:45<TrueBrain>so no wget support
06:45<TrueBrain>sad
06:45<TrueBrain>anyway, I like this approach much more :)
06:46<Phazorx>pickmy.html is a blank file with header 304 which then goes to what you want it to do wih your top frame
06:46<Phazorx>you can use anythin else instead of frames
06:47<TrueBrain>a html file which gives a 304 back .. cool ....
06:48<TrueBrain>either way, might have been a good idea back in the 80s, but it is a bit obsolete now, such ideas :)
06:48<Phazorx>te point is not the html but the header it has
06:48<TrueBrain>it gives an unneeded and unwanted load (socket-wise)
06:48<Phazorx>what lod, do explain
06:48<TrueBrain>a client makes N (where N is the amount of mirrors) connections
06:48<TrueBrain>which are completely unneeded
06:48<TrueBrain>it requires frame support, javascript support, completely unneeded
06:48<Phazorx>oh... so it's better for server to do N conecton ather than client
06:48<TrueBrain>this approach is much more subtle
06:48<Phazorx>checking if mirros are alive
06:48<Phazorx>that saves a lot of cpu time indeed
06:48<TrueBrain>hahahaha :) You should have asked what our plan was
06:49<TrueBrain>before jumping to such conclusions
06:49<TrueBrain>either way, lunch
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07:38<__ln>http://ez.fi/youtube.com/12x_blu_ray_star_trek_phaser_featured_on_hacknmod_com
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08:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18876 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make sure m4 is always 0 for non-railroad station tiles
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08:59<@orudge>TrueBrain: 32.778176, -96.798206, I bleieve :p
08:59<@orudge>*believe
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09:00<TrueBrain>k, thank you :)
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09:06<TrueBrain>there .. balancer application finished .. seems to work rather well .. now it needs some live testing :)
09:09<@Belugas>hello
09:09<@orudge>'lo Belugas
09:10<@Belugas>hi mister orudge :)
09:16<@Rubidium>hi Belugas
09:20<@peter1138>ARGH
09:21<@peter1138>i have a pair of switches that have suddenly decided to refuse to talk to each other
09:23<@Belugas>hi Rubidium :)
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09:25<Eddi|zuHause>get them to pair counselling :p
09:28<@peter1138>hahah
09:28<@peter1138>switch A: extreme summit
09:28<@peter1138>switch B: cisco w/ poe
09:28<@peter1138>telephone connected to switch A could see cdp from switch B and tried to POE off it
09:28<@peter1138>which fails of course
09:29<@peter1138>switch B sees several fails and disables the port
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09:43<nick>hey guys
09:43<nick>what version of open TTD do you find the best?
09:43<@Belugas>peter1138: why did they suddenly decided to ignore each other? someone changed something? or it's the installatioj of your new server?
09:44<@Belugas>nick: is it for a poll? do we win something?
09:44<@Belugas>the nightlies, of course...
09:44<nick>Nop,I've seen better then the stale version that all
09:45<@Belugas>you are making no sens to me
09:45<@peter1138>yeah, the powersupply of the phone was unplugged
09:45<@Belugas>what's a stale version?
09:46<@peter1138>so it started trying POE
09:46<@Belugas>peter1138: that would make sens :)
09:47<nick>oh and...
09:47<nick>one other noob question
09:47<nick>Deluxe is the expansion?
09:47<Yexo>no
09:47<nick>then what is it?
09:47<Yexo>there is "transport tycoon", "transport tycoon deluxe" and "OpenTTD"
09:47<Yexo>3 seperate games
09:48<nick>O_O
09:48<nick>damn
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>nick: it's more like a successor, not an expansion
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09:49<nick>So, OpenTTD is the newest one?
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes
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09:51<nick>alright thank you
09:51<@Belugas>no really a successor... It's a program based on Deluxe
09:51<planetmaker>comercial game designers don't do it much differently, though ;-)
09:51<planetmaker>They "only" have the advantage to not need to re-invent the wheel.
09:51<@Belugas>successor would imply that the orignal author of TTD kept on working and provided OpenTTD. Which is not the case
09:51<planetmaker>right that :-)
09:51<@Belugas>yup
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>well, there are different kinds of successors
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>of course the "official" successor to "Transport Tycoon Deluxe" is "Locomotion"
09:55*Belugas nods
10:00<Phazorx>and then RCT... an the hell broke loose
10:01<Phazorx>any of devs bothered to answer my Q from earlier btw?
10:01<Coco-Banana-Man>hm, RCT...
10:01<Coco-Banana-Man>Is RCT 3 a successor of 1 & 2? :P
10:02<Phazorx>i didnt even know there was more than one....
10:03<nick>hey guys,with the latest version AI's dont work,where can I download them?
10:03<@peter1138>from the content window
10:03<Yexo>did you read the instructions?
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10:05<nick>nop,lol
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10:45<TrueBrain>okay, next request: could you guys check for me if 'http://test.binaries.openttd.org/' brings you to one of the mirrors?
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>at least it fails my url parser :p
10:46<Goulp>arrived t ocz
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>takes me to us.
10:47<TrueBrain>to us. ? That is weird ...
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>second try to cz
10:47<Yexo>gb.binaries.openttd.org
10:48<Goulp>which is 15 hops from where i am
10:48<TrueBrain>it is now just doing round-robin :(
10:48<Maedhros>TrueBrain: works for me (gives me gb)
10:48<Yexo>maybe because there is no load?
10:48<Goulp>and gb is 12 hops
10:49<Yexo>maedhros: try loading the page again, you'll end up somewhere else
10:49<SmatZ>TrueBrain: us, cz, gb, us, cz, gb
10:49<Maedhros>Yexo: so i did :)
10:49<TrueBrain>can you guys try it again?
10:49<Yexo>reliable gb. now
10:49<TrueBrain>k, no longer doing round-robin :)
10:50<SmatZ>TrueBrain: cz, cz, cz, cz, cz
10:50<Goulp>gb now
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10:50<Goulp>i like gebe
10:50<TrueBrain>k
10:50<TrueBrain>I wonder why Yexo goes to gb ...
10:50<+glx>nl, nl :)
10:50<+glx>(IPv6 ;) )
10:50<TrueBrain>IPv6 always ends in .nl yes ;)
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10:50<TrueBrain>Yexo: you should end up at nl ...
10:51<Luukland>I get GB
10:51<Luukland>not NL
10:51<TrueBrain>well .. not really .. NL prio is ten times as high ..
10:51<TrueBrain>to offline NL :p
10:51<TrueBrain>offline = offload
10:51<Goulp>gb again
10:51<TrueBrain>we need a real NL mirror ;)
10:51<TrueBrain>k, tnx all :)
10:51<TrueBrain>no US hits so far, so that is promising :)
10:51<Luukland>got one
10:51<Luukland>:P
10:51<Luukland>Zernebok :p
10:51<@Rubidium>unless someone from the US has been hitting it :)
10:51<Goulp>what about a fr at freeix ?
10:52<Luukland>or was that cz :P
10:52<Luukland>ah nevermind, I am wondering if the ai-selling is still in openttd
10:52<TrueBrain>you thought about your question carefully?
10:52<TrueBrain>you know what happened last time?
10:53<Luukland>Yes yes, I am sure :P
10:53<Luukland>well, seems nobody removed it, so it is still there :)
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>writing lots of small files to NTFS is sloooooow...
10:56<TrueBrain>k ... started the new balancer in live env ...
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11:08<Luukland>@svnlogs
11:08<Luukland>hummmm
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>you might want to check the topic
11:10*Luukland scrolls up
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>you can check the topic by writing /topic
11:11<Luukland>@vcs
11:11<Luukland>Meh
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>seriously, have you been here longer than two days?!?
11:11<@peter1138>/dev/cciss/c0d0p9 259G 188M 246G 1% /home
11:11<@peter1138>nom
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: what do you do with devices that small?
11:12<Sacro>that's what she said
11:12<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, amnesia is a bliss and a pain at once ;-)
11:13<@peter1138>quite
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>/dev/mapper/cr_sdc1 917G 910G 7,2G 100%
11:13<@peter1138>plenty enough for most things
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>/dev/sdf1 932G 801G 131G 86%
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>/dev/sda4 423G 385G 38G 92%
11:13<@peter1138>hmm, 84MB/s
11:14<planetmaker>that's acceptable
11:14<@peter1138>as RAID5
11:14<planetmaker>hm.
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>/dev/mapper/pdc_cfbaej373G 346G 28G 93%
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11:19<Luukland>Hmmm, someone did remove the ai-buying part
11:19<Luukland>When an AI bankrupts now no option shows if you want to buy it
11:20<planetmaker>you are a blitzmerker
11:20<Luukland>Still the news message says that the "ai will be sold or decleared bankrupt"
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>well, you can buy it from their company screen
11:21<Luukland>"ai can be bought or decleared bankrupt"
11:21<Luukland>Not what the message says :)
11:23<Luukland>I want this sold thing back plz
11:23<Luukland>It must serve for another purpose...
11:24<planetmaker>tsk. You want it back so you can abuse it?
11:24<planetmaker>then you should bring it back yourself.
11:24<Luukland>no use it for the multiplayer system, for selling companies
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>like i said, it's on the company screen...
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11:25<Luukland>Yes thank you for your very sharp eyes
11:26<Luukland>back to the drawing board then
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11:27<@peter1138>"decleared" heh
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11:28<Vaevictus>greets. My brother asked me a question i thought i knew the answer to, but... apparently there's no cost estimate on tunnel creation?
11:28<woldemar>shift + build
11:29<frosch123>shift works on almost every command
11:29<woldemar>shift estimates anything: buying, building...
11:29<woldemar>landscaping
11:29*TrueBrain clicks the shift on frosch123's face
11:29<TrueBrain>no effect :(
11:29<Vaevictus>woldemar: no way to default it on ?
11:29<@Belugas>"Ho, I did not knew that"
11:30<woldemar>Vaevictus: default?!
11:30<planetmaker>Vaevictus, you don't want to build by default?
11:30<TrueBrain>capslock :p :p :p (no, not true)
11:30<@Belugas>so,,, default is to estimatem, not to build...
11:30<planetmaker>Are you a **** accountant?
11:30<@Belugas>way to go!
11:30<woldemar>Vaevictus: just hold shift whie click
11:30<Vaevictus>oh ... i see
11:30<woldemar>while*
11:31<planetmaker>hide the useful things behind key combinations like ctrl+meta+shift+print
11:31<Vaevictus>seems like there was a hover for tunnels originally or ages ago.
11:31<Vaevictus>but that'll work, thanks
11:32<woldemar>planetmaker: i am using emacs, shift is not so hard to find out )
11:32<Vaevictus>kinda like the length indicator option, but for estimate
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>Vaevictus: there is a hover tooltip for the length
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>Vaevictus: might be possible to patch it so it displays the cost estimate, too
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>that's not even a bad idea...
11:32<Vaevictus>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, i know. it'd be nice if there was a estimate tooltip, for tunnels at least, since they're potentially huge.
11:33<Vaevictus>Eddi|zuHause: i really thought that it was like that, once upon a time.
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember anything like that...
11:33<Vaevictus>just for tunnels though
11:33<Vaevictus>maybe it's just my imagination. :)
11:33<planetmaker>vivid and colourful
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you mix it up with a different game...
11:34<Vaevictus>ahh... probably. :)
11:34<Eoin>err
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11:34<Vaevictus>other games are terrible in comparison, though :)
11:34<Eoin>there is a "cost" estimate for tunnels isnt there
11:34<Vaevictus>Eoin: ??? :)
11:34<Vaevictus>don't reinforce my delusions :)
11:34<Eoin>im sure there is :D
11:34<Vaevictus>Eoin: you mean, like a tooltip?
11:35<Eoin>yeh, hold shift i think
11:35<Vaevictus>lol
11:35<Vaevictus>yeah, we covered that, i was expecting a hover
11:35<Eoin>ah
11:35<Eoin>:)
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12:09<TrueBrain>peter1138: I didn't know if you wanted a link to you or your company or what ever for the mirror, so it just names your name for now. If you like to have that changed, please let me know. (refering to: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?uid=3036&f=29&t=46889&start=0 / http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mirror.txt / http://www.openttd.org/links
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12:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18877 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Change: make the default size of the AI debug window bigger so the 'no ai found' message can be read completely without resizing
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12:14<Ammler>isn't it uk?
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12:15<@Rubidium>geoiplookup gb.binaries.openttd.org
12:15<@Rubidium>GeoIP Country Edition: GB, United Kingdom
12:15<TrueBrain>yes, it is uk, but we named it gb, just to be funny
12:16<TrueBrain>Ammler: for your reference: http://www.iso.org/iso/english_country_names_and_code_elements
12:20<Ammler>he, why do they call their domain .uk?
12:21<TrueBrain>I think you need to write someone a letter for that, to find that out :)
12:24<Ammler>Silly Britains :-)
12:26<@Rubidium>Ammler: why is Germany not using .ge? As Japan uses .jp (Nihon/Nippon), Greece uses .gr (Hellas)?
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12:27<Ammler>Rubidium: Germany has de in the iso table
12:28<Vaevictus>germany is deuchland :)
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>i still don't know who had the bright idea to use "gr" for germany in the dos keyboard layout settings ;)
12:29<TrueBrain>peter1138: and another request: can you adjust the RDNS to say gb.binaries.openttd.org? uk.binaries.openttd.org will be phased out relative quick now
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12:34<Ammler>he, wikipedia knows (as mostly)
12:34<Ammler>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.uk
12:35<@orudge>the use of UK comes from JANET, as I recall
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12:35<@orudge>really, our ISO country code should be UK, although that'd then bugger up the Ukraine, I guess :p
12:36<TrueBrain>go to war with them :)
12:36<@orudge>ah, hmm, no, they are actually still UA
12:36<@orudge>UK is actually still reserved for us
12:36<@orudge>although GB is our 'main' code
12:36<@orudge>so there's nothing wrong with uk.binaries.openttd.org, and indeed, I think it personally would be better than gb, but that's just me :p
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12:39<TrueBrain>dra.hmg.gb <- the only .gb, how sweet :)
12:39<TrueBrain>orudge: the country is now dictated by GeoIP, which says GB. To keep one uniform value, we moved everything to gb
12:39<TrueBrain>much easier to have one :)
12:39<@orudge>ah
12:40<SpComb>fi.binaries.openttd.org would look good
12:40<TrueBrain>you have all the info to make that happen spcomb :)
12:41<SpComb>kind of wondering how much 1TB/month actually is atm
12:41<TrueBrain>4mbit/s (under 95% rule)
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12:42<SpComb>unfortunately this is a best-effort line, so there's actually no traffic billing...
12:42<@orudge>ah, I see us.binaries.openttd.org has used 86GB this month already, heh
12:43<TrueBrain>orudge: we currently push through (in total) 1 GB/h
12:43<@orudge>hmm, binaries.openttd.org sends me to nl.binaries.openttd.org, despite being in the US
12:43<TrueBrain>IPv6 requests all end up in nl.
12:43<@orudge>ah
12:43<TrueBrain>the only IPv6 mirror for now
12:43<@orudge>I was wondering, yes :)
12:44<TrueBrain>it would be a bit bad to redirect that to a IPv4 mirror ;)
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12:46<SpComb>I don't have native IPv6, but I do have redundant IPv6 tunnels (i.e. multiple AAAA's + policy routing so all of them work)
12:47<Vaevictus>orudge: nice. is there a monthly usage chart for us.binaries?
12:47<@orudge>not publically accessible, no
12:47<TrueBrain>the nl. has native IPv6 :)
12:48<SpComb>unfortunately my provider isn't that advanced, but I have good routing to fihel01.sixxs.net
12:48<TrueBrain>orudge: btw, bandwidth on your end will decrease, we are keeping European users in Europe now ;)
12:48<@orudge>heh, fair enough
12:49<@orudge>right, well
12:49<@orudge>I'd best pack up the last of my stuff
12:49*orudge is heading back to the UK
12:49<TrueBrain>meaning you now got 10% of the users, instead of the 20% ;)
12:49<@orudge>ta ta for now
12:49<TrueBrain>Enjoy!!!! :)
12:51<SpComb>TrueBrain: but the mirror selection is done separately for IPv4 and IPv6?
12:51<TrueBrain>how do you mean: seperarely?
12:51<SpComb>IPv6 connections are balanced out to IPv6 mirrors
12:52<TrueBrain>yes, of course .. would be silly to not to
12:52<TrueBrain>say there is an IPv6 only mirror .. would you want to get that as IPv4 user? :p
12:52<SpComb>well, not as such
12:52<TrueBrain>or if you have an IPv6 only connection .. would be sad if you got directed to a IPv4 only mirror
12:52<SpComb>hah
12:52<SpComb>how likely is that
12:52<TrueBrain>in Asia?
12:52<TrueBrain>very
12:53<TrueBrain>either way, it is just wrong, to accept an IPv6 connection, then redirect to a non-IPv6
12:53<SpComb>well, IPv6 traffic volumes isn't anything to be scared about either :P
12:53<TrueBrain>now we just need IPv6 mirrors :)
12:53<TrueBrain>nope .. not yet :)
12:54<TrueBrain>dinner
12:54<Xaroth>enjoy
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12:56<@Rubidium>SpComb: true, though 2-3% connects with IPv6 to our server
12:57<@Rubidium>similarly 3-4% of the (game) servers is IPv6 right now
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>does that translate to "2-4% of the internet is IPv6"?
13:00<@Rubidium>more like 1-2% of traffic at AMS-IX is IPv6
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>so we're "better" than the average internet :p
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>how does a mere mortal like me get IPv6?
13:01<@Rubidium>IPv6 tunnel
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>tunnel to where? and can i get a static IPv6 while on a dynamic IPv4 line?
13:02<Phazorx>the question shoudbe why nothw :)
13:02<heffer>Eddi|zuHause, yes
13:02<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yes
13:02<heffer>Eddi|zuHause, www.sixxs.net
13:02<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: tunnel to somewhere :)
13:02<heffer>for example
13:03<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: concept of tunneling is used as a term for encapsualtion... think of VPN
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>i know what a tunnel is... it still needs and end point other than mine..
13:05<Prof_Frink>Build a railway and tunnel to the coast!
13:06<Phazorx>Eddi|zuHause: well you have ipv6 and server has ipv6... and all 30 hops in between it is ipv6-over-ipv4
13:07<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: the 'IPv6-broker' has a server which you'll be using as the other end of the tunnel
13:08<Phazorx>that still very much avoids the question why would you do something like that....
13:09<+glx>IPv4 15 hops to openttd.org, IPv6 9 hops
13:09<@Rubidium>freenet6.net was the fastest to give you an account, but that got reorganised/commercialised so I'm not sure about that anymore
13:09<Phazorx>this is like get a turbojet, put in on railway car load passengers into the jet and let them fly on rails like that
13:09<+glx>IPv4 pass through London :)
13:10<@Rubidium>because ipv6.google.com is so much better than google.com
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13:10<Phazorx>Rubidium: you i heard you get 2 cool points for that
13:10<@Rubidium>and because IPv6 removes the need (for me) to add portforwards in NATs; I just connect directly via IPv6
13:12<Eoin>heffer: they require a reason for wanting IPv6
13:12<Phazorx>dont get me wrong, i understand that v6 is needed and it works just fine and offers more features... but you need completely v6 environment to enjoy these benefits... such as corporate LANs or university net
13:12<Eoin>what if i just think its cool :D
13:12<heffer>Eoin, then that is you reason
13:13<Eoin>they would accept that?
13:13<@Rubidium>IPv6: 2001:1af8:4100:a000:1::2 (2001:1af8:4100:a000:1::2) 29.519 ms 29.784 ms 30.157 ms
13:13<@Rubidium>IPv4: openttd.org (85.17.162.188) 32.015 ms 32.320 ms 32.805 ms
13:13<heffer>don't know. they accepted "Testing IPv6 Apps"
13:13<@Rubidium>and my IPv6 tunnel is even faster than raw IPv4 :)
13:13<Phazorx>that's nice
13:14<Phazorx>Rubidium: however probably due to lack of traffic on it compared to "usual routes" ?
13:15<@Rubidium>probably due to the router here having to NAT the IPv4 package and simply routing the IPv6 package
13:16<+glx>hmm v4 is faster than v6 for me (even if v6 route is shorter)
13:17<Eoin>Im awaiting human verification now heffer
13:17<Eoin>though, i dont actually get all this IPv6 stuff, so ill have to find out what its useful for!
13:17<heffer>i use it to manage servers in my school where we only have an adsl line with a single dynamic ip
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>Eoin: they say "can take between 1 day and 1 week" for the human verification
13:18<heffer>in my case it took them 4h
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>probably depends on the time zone as well...
13:19<heffer>most of them are in the EU
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13:28<Eddi|zuHause>(HUB = Haupt-Umschlagbasis) <-- who had that genious idea for an acronym? :p
13:31<SpComb>hey, nginx has IPv6 support these days
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13:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18878 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Fix [NewGRF]: crash when a newgrf used var62 in an industry tile chain when the industry tile was part of an original industry
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13:41<rait>hello. some dev's might remember that i had a freeze while exiting on windows server 2008 r2 (x64) with 1.0.0-beta2. the thing is, i'm having the same problem pretty much every time i try to exit openttd. could this be further analyzed? as far as i can remember it was a M$ issue, not a ottd one
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13:42<@Rubidium>rait: does it happen with -s null ?
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13:45<rait>some kind of killswitch for sound?
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18879 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt slovenian.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by SupSuper
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovenian - 6 changes by ntadej
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 149 changes by Terkhen
13:45<@Rubidium>rait: yes
13:46<rait>it's kind of hard to test, can't be sure what trigers the problem ... so i just need to play a while
13:48<rait>"hard" isn't the correct word, "time-consuming" would be it
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>not only is ubuntu getting more like windows, now windows is getting more like ubuntu! :p
13:50<rait>in the mean time, could i request that the dump i have from few days ago would be further analyzed? maybe it has a hint. if it's possible, i'll re-upload it
13:51<@Rubidium>rait: it showed that it was waiting on something somewhere in ntdll.dll when shutting the audio down
13:51<rait>so ... thinking backwards, what causes the audio to open in the first place?
13:53<rait>i'm not an expert but shouldn't openttd just be able to "hang up" and let windows deal with its own problems?
13:56<+glx>yup it hangs when shuting down sound
13:56<+glx>it's not openttd, it's windows
13:57<+glx>openttd just ask windows to close sound "channel"
13:57<rait>what would happen if openttd would just "forget" to do so?
13:57<+glx>when you open something, it's nice to close it
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>either she faints, or the universe explodes
13:58<rait>in what point does the audio channel get opened? as soon as you start or at some event?
13:59<+glx>at start
14:00<rait>so no clues why it works sometimes and not on others?
14:01<+glx>not yet
14:01<+glx>maybe the calls order, but it's hard to tell as it works for me
14:03<rait>so basically, it's a b**ch to debug?
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14:05<+glx>as always when you can't reproduce it :)
14:06<rait>it doesn't seem to be something that can be reproduced with just load game and exit
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14:18<rait>where can i get the symbols to locally debug?
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>most likely by compiling a debug build yourself
14:26<Yexo>binaries.openttd.org also has the pdb files
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14:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18880 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix: aircraft can be send to an hangar when the target airport has one and when it can land, not only when it has a plane terminal
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15:02<rait>since i can't figure out how to setup my debugger to use symbols and beta3 is out, i'm kind of abandoning it. unless beta3 has the same thing, it's case closed by me ...
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, as nobody knows what your problem is, it likely is not fixed between beta2 and beta3
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15:07<rait>i have to agree ...
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15:17<@Belugas>and it's likely something on your side. update your drivers?
15:18<dihedral>why on earth do you need sound on win 2008 server?
15:18<TrueBrain>oeh oeh oeh, I know thatone: to listen to music!
15:19<dihedral>er.... server? hello?
15:19<dihedral>it's not like it's some media thing
15:19<fjb>soundserver
15:19<dihedral>if you want a workstation install an opropriate os
15:19<Alberth>it needs to say 'beep' when you press the wrong key
15:20<dihedral>usually that goes through the speaker :-P
15:23<@Belugas>appropriate, not opropriate
15:23<@Belugas>plus... as long as it can drive a machine, it's an appropriate os
15:23<@Belugas>et PAF!
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>is that the "onomatopée" that a rim shot makes? ;)
15:25-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: bbiab]
15:25<dihedral>Belugas: you are saying DOS 5.2 is an appropriate OS todays, because it can drive a machine?
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>there never was a DOS 5.2
15:26<@Belugas>why not?
15:26<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, who cares? :-P
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>(at least if you mean MS DOS)
15:26<@Belugas>so the question would be... if the Os supports waht you expect it to do, who cares
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: if it's a "don't care", then don't fill in any numbers at all
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15:42<sakishrist>hello
15:42<@Belugas>hey
15:43<sakishrist>where could i possibly find info about the tcp interface the game uses while in multiplayer?
15:43<TrueBrain>wiki.openttd.org (although outdated
15:44<TrueBrain>vcs.openttd.org/svn/, under trunk/src/network
15:44<Yexo>source code src/network/*
15:45<sakishrist>I have looked there ... I only found a (very useful) file that explains the udp interface ... but only the udp
15:45<TrueBrain>then I think you have to look a bit better ;)
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15:46<TrueBrain>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp#L46
15:46<sakishrist>there is only the source code ... but in the udp.h file there is info about the packets the client and the server exchange ... that is the info I am looking for
15:46<TrueBrain>start there :)
15:46<sakishrist>not the actual code
15:47<Yexo>I don't think there is other info then the actual code
15:47<TrueBrain>on the wiki, the first version of this protocol is documented
15:47<TrueBrain>but it was never updated, so it doesn't reflect the latest
15:47<TrueBrain>but if you look at the URL I gave you, you will see that at each function is clear documentation about the usage
15:48<sakishrist>hmm ... ok then, ill have another look at the wiki and see if I can get along with the source. Thanks a lot! :)
15:48<Yexo>http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/TCP only lists the things that are sent/received, it's easy to decypher that from the source code
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15:50<@Rubidium>what do you intend to do with the application that supports the protocol?
15:56<sakishrist>Ok ... I found some info thanks to your help.
15:57<@Belugas>most likely studying how a networked application might work, in my humble opinion
15:57-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@209.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
15:57<@Belugas>oh... a Terkhen!
15:57<Terkhen>hello
15:58<sakishrist>@Rubidium, well ... actually what belugas said is correct ... + I just have a wild dream to make an external ai
15:58<sakishrist>:p
15:58<@Rubidium>hi Terkhen; marked a string in the Spanish translator because someone said the string wasn't right. Could you test that?
15:58<Terkhen>I was just reading the closed flyspray task
15:59<TrueBrain>sakishrist: there are easier ways ;)
15:59<Terkhen>done, thanks :)
15:59<sakishrist>like?
15:59<@Rubidium>sakishrist: you are aware that you need to (more or less) keep the state of OpenTTD in your external AI so you know how the map looks?
16:00<@Rubidium>i.e. you need to basically implement the whole game logic of OpenTTD
16:00<Yexo>sakishrist: it's much easier to patch openttd so it can run an AI company locally and sent all DoCommands to the server
16:00<TrueBrain>sakishrist: use the client ;)
16:00<sakishrist>yeah ... I thought of that ... and that's the reason I said wild
16:01<sakishrist>what do you mean by "the client"
16:01<Yexo>openttd
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16:05<@Belugas>Yexo, don't say that word... you're scaring customers away ;)
16:06<Yexo>:p
16:09<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18881 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make the AI debug window look nicer when not at its minimum size
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16:24<Bluelight>Does the OpenTTD server work on a network with several computers?
16:24<TrueBrain>we call it The Internet
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>more than one computer in ONE network? blasphemy! herecy!
16:25<Bluelight>I heard something about it not working correctly..
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>next thing you want to tell us is that the world is actually _round_ ...
16:26<Prof_Frink>It is.
16:26<Bluelight>I have a server and my personal computer behind the same ruter.. Can I host internet games with my server?
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>seriously... how would people not fall off it?!?
16:26-!-Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
16:26<Prof_Frink>Plates are round.
16:27<Bluelight>Ohh my.. Can't you just reply to the question. please? .. :P
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>Bluelight: yes, you can host a game, but local computers might not be able to join from the server list, only by adding the (local) IP manually
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16:28<Bluelight>I just set the list to LAN..
16:28<Prof_Frink>You will also have to set up port forwarding on the router.
16:28<Bluelight>I'm not that stupid..
16:28<Bluelight>I have all ports open on the server
16:29<Yexo>you have to set up port forwarding on the _router_ to the server
16:29<Bluelight>Do you think I but a havy duty serverhardware and not open the ports? H ehe.. :p
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>honestly, we have no idea how stupid you actually are...
16:29<Bluelight>but=buy
16:29<Yexo>Bluelight: you'd be amased at the stupidity of some questions that are asked here
16:30<Bluelight>Ok ok..
16:30<heffer>actually buying heavy duty server hardware to run openttd on IS stupid :P
16:30<Bluelight>Is it possible that the listserver got some issues sometimes? Some times the server have trouble listing..
16:31<Yexo>possible, but it's more likely the problem is on your end (either your connection or your port forwarding or your server)
16:31<Bluelight>Well I will run more then just OpenTTD on it though..
16:32<Bluelight>I don't think it's on my end.. It only happens sometimes..
16:33-!-ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd
16:34<Bluelight>Here is a picture of my server hardware.. :)
16:35<Bluelight>http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/Server/ProLiant%20DL380%20G3/06_1068886050.jpg
16:35<KingJ>6 nice high speed, high noise fans at the front ;)
16:36<Bluelight>Yeah.. :)
16:36<heffer>the fans on the g3 aren't too bad. it's the drives :D
16:36<Bluelight>Is there any drivers? lol
16:36<Prof_Frink>You can't chuck that in a rucksack and go off mapping unencrypted wifi very easily
16:37<Bluelight>That true..
16:37<Bluelight>It's kind of stationary..
16:37<KingJ>I would love to see someone try though
16:37<Bluelight>I will run FreeBSD on it in a few days.. And I think I have WMvare..
16:38<Bluelight>So what drivers?
16:38*SpComb has partially migrated his lighttpd stuff to nginx
16:38<heffer>but the g3 doesn't do hardware virt
16:38<SpComb>the lack of CGI, FastCGI-spawning and PATH_INFO is making life difficult
16:38<heffer>the hard drives are loud was what i was saying
16:38<SpComb>aww, the DL380
16:39*SpComb has one of those in his cupboard as well
16:39<Bluelight>Well that was all I could affoard..
16:39<Prof_Frink>Bluelight: Nah, mount it on some casters, ramp up the fans and watch it go!
16:40<Bluelight>casters?
16:40<Prof_Frink>Small wheels.
16:40<Bluelight>I don't know what that is.. I guess I'm stupid after all..
16:40<Bluelight>Ohh.. lol
16:40<SpComb>Bluelight: it's great hardware, and cheap (you could probably even nab a palette-load for free if were in the right place at the right time...) - but it's netburst, and SCA :(
16:41<Bluelight>SpComb.. What does that mean?
16:41<Bluelight>netburst? SCA?
16:41<SpComb>Bluelight: old CPUs and old hard drives
16:41<Prof_Frink>netburst means get your frying pan out
16:42<Bluelight>Well it's 2 CPU's at 2.8 each and 6 SCSI discs..
16:42<SpComb>Bluelight: imagine those CPUs to be Pentium 4's, and you're about there
16:43<Bluelight>Well, should be good enought to host OpenTTD?
16:43<SpComb>sure
16:43<SpComb>if you can stand the noise and heat
16:43<SpComb>and power consumption
16:43<SpComb>and the hardware's good quality
16:43<Bluelight>Yeah I've been thinking about it, lol
16:44<Prof_Frink>Bluelight: I've run openttd on my "server" before.
16:45<Bluelight>The only think I'm wondering about is the temperature in the room where I have the server.. It should be less then 16'C ,right? And I have 23 degrees..
16:45<Bluelight>thing*
16:45<@peter1138>why less than 16°C ?
16:46-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:46<Bluelight>To reduce stress on the hardware..
16:46<Bluelight>heat is bad
16:46<Prof_Frink>Didn't google do research that showed that actually it isn't?
16:46<@peter1138>flunctuations are bad
16:47<SpComb>Bluelight: well, it'll depend on the CPU load, but normal room temp without adequate ventilation is quite likely to lead to thermal protection shutdowns
16:47<@peter1138>yes, ventilation is important, not temperature
16:47<@peter1138>well, within reason :)
16:47<SpComb>Bluelight: the BIOS ambient temperature limit for the thermal shutdown is very low, I can't remember exactly, but I think it was under 30°C
16:47<SpComb>Bluelight: good news is, you can disable the termal protection shutdown :)
16:48<Bluelight>Ok, so the server might shut down?
16:48<SpComb>Bluelight: if it gets too warm, yes
16:48<SpComb>that's been the only issue I've had with the hardware so far
16:48<Bluelight>Well I'm planning to buy a UPS now..
16:48<Bluelight>2.700 W
16:48<SpComb>don't spend more on the UPS than the server...
16:48-!-heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer]
16:48<Bluelight>He he..
16:48<@peter1138>2.7W that won't get you far
16:49<blathijs>Bluelight: You're considering putting a beast like that in your home?
16:49<Bluelight>What do you mean? Server uses only 800W
16:49<Bluelight>Yeah, he he..
16:50<Prof_Frink>Shirley UPSes should be rated in Wh rather than just W
16:50<Bluelight>I want this one: http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SUA3000RMI2U
16:51<@peter1138>i buy old DL3[68]0s... they cheap and perform well enough
16:51<SpComb>if you don't have to pay for power yourself
16:52<SpComb>peter1138: do you buy replacement disks/fans from somewhere?
16:52<@peter1138>not needed to yet
16:52<Bluelight>Cool
16:53<SpComb>perhaps I should take a photo of our HL DL380 G3 + SATA RAID setup sometime
16:53<@peter1138>the newer kit is just as power hungry, it just does more with it
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16:55<Bluelight>Ok, I want some sort of latency value in the server list.. Is that possible?
16:55<Bluelight>Ping
16:56<@peter1138>not really
16:57<Bluelight>Why not?
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16:58*SpComb wonders what to do with his 1464 SixXS-ISK
16:58<@peter1138>TRANSACTION LOG File Layout
16:59<@peter1138>tlccno variable text, 16 characters credit card number
16:59<@peter1138>silly people
16:59<@peter1138>1) storing unencrypted card numbers
16:59<@peter1138>2) 16 isn't enough
17:01<+glx>it's enough if you don't care about validity date and the code behind the card ;)
17:01<+glx>and as it's not encrypted it's better to not store all infos
17:01<Bluelight>Ok, I'm going to bed.. Nice to chat.. cya! Good night! :)
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17:05<@Belugas>HO...NIGHT.. INDEED... gOOd Night!
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17:29<Eoin>yay
17:29<Eoin>I now have IPv6 supposedly
17:29<@Rubidium>try ipv6.google.com
17:29<Eoin>now, what do i do with it :D
17:30<Eoin>i dont have it set up
17:30<Eoin>Ive got the account verified on SixXS
17:30<@Rubidium>tss... who's in charge of the topic of this channel?
17:31<Eoin>You :D
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17:31<@Rubidium>@seen You
17:31<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: I have not seen You.
17:31<Eoin>Who here uses SixXS
17:31<Eoin>i dont quite get how to i can "use" IPv6
17:34<SpComb>Eoin: pick your tunnel endpoint and some suitable tunnel type
17:34<SpComb>Eoin: then request a tunnel
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17:35<Eoin>as far as i can tell i want AICCU
17:35<Eoin>AYIYA*
17:38<SpComb>if you're on windows, yes
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17:41<fjb>Not only on windows.
17:45<SpComb>behind a NAT then
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17:56<Eddi|zuHause>so if i run the tunnel on the router, i can choose heartbeat?
17:59-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-44-188.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:59<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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18:03<mirQus>Hello
18:03<Yexo>hello mirQus
18:04<mirQus>I just read commit for r18828 and the code was wrong and was changed to be wrong.
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18:04<Yexo>why do you think it's still wrong?
18:04<mirQus>C++ says, that only pointers to array elements and +1 are valid.
18:04<mirQus>So this code should be:
18:05<mirQus>T *p = this->data + length;
18:05<mirQus>while (p != this->data) { --p; p->~T(); }
18:05<Yexo>that's exactly the same as the current code
18:06<mirQus>No. This code can actually make an assignment p = this->data - 1;
18:06<mirQus>And that's not guaranteed to work (but works anyway probably in all current compilers).
18:06<Yexo>oh, right
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18:07<@Rubidium>but... what's the value of this->data?
18:07<mirQus>C++ purists would tell you that current code is not C++. ;)
18:07<Yexo>maybe not, but since this->data != NULL (if NULL is not 0 then there are a lot more problems in openttd code)
18:07<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: dunno, I just use a plain 6in4 tunnel because I have a static address and upstream doesn't break on proto 41
18:08<@Rubidium>for the fun of it...
18:08<@Rubidium>this->data[-1] is the begin! of the allocated array
18:08<@Rubidium>or something like that
18:09<@Rubidium>i.e. that whole class/struct is one big hack
18:09<mirQus>If this->data is a value from new sth[]; then no.
18:09<mirQus>this->data[0] is the beginning.
18:09<@Rubidium>this->data = malloc(something) + offset;
18:09<mirQus>And this->data[-1] is undefined.
18:10<@Rubidium>in the destructor it does
18:10<@Rubidium>free(this->data - offset)
18:11-!-Tennel is now known as andreas
18:12<mirQus>Still, this is not C++, but C. And even then I'm not sure it's standards compliant. :>
18:13<mirQus>In userland it's probably not important, but array elements might be not properly aligned in the array if allocated like that.
18:13-!-andreas is now known as Tennel
18:14<mirQus>BTW, what's the point of allocating the header if the object needs it anyway and can have it as a field?
18:14<@Rubidium>definitely true and definitely not a nice piece of code... but YAPF kinda depends on how the thing works, so I rather keep it as-is unless someone is really interested in rewriting YAPF
18:15<@Rubidium>'luckily' the developer of YAPF left quite soon after this hit a stable release
18:16<SpComb>hehe
18:16<SpComb>hit-and-run contribution
18:17<mirQus>But is it using the SmallArray's internals?
18:18<mirQus>Quick grep didn't show anything like that.
18:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18882 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change: default to zero AIs
18:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18883 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings.cpp settings_gui.cpp): -Codechange: warn in the difficulty and AI configuration window when setting the number of AIs to non-zero when you don't have AIs
18:20<SpComb>mm
18:20<SpComb>sounds like a good default to me
18:21<mirQus>Ok, back to reading git log. ;)
18:21<mirQus>CU l8r.
18:22<SpComb>but difficulty changes to custom?
18:22<Yexo>the other difficulty levels have more then zero AIs
18:23<mirQus>Yexo: BTW, c++ says that you can compare 'empty' pointer to int(0) even if the pointer's internal representation is not all-zeros.
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18:24<Yexo>mirQus: and memset(struct with a pointer, 0, sizeof(that struct)); <- does that also work as expected?
18:24<mirQus>memset() is not in C++. :>
18:24<Yexo>it's used a lot in openttd
18:25<+glx>openttd used to be C ;)
18:25<mirQus>But it's an interesting question, regarding c++ standard. I don't have a copy unfortunately.
18:26<+glx>@op
18:26-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
18:26-!-glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.5, 1.0.0-beta3 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only
18:26<@glx>@deop
18:26-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
18:27<mirQus>It's in <cstring> co actually memset() is ok.
18:28<Yexo>I wonder how that could actually work then, as memset accepts void* so doesn't know about what struct it zeroes
18:28<mirQus>Though not if the struct has anything other than POD's as members probably.
18:29<mirQus>I mean if there's some member of a class that wants to be initialized by it's constructor, then after memset it might be in invalid state.
18:29<Eoin>SpComb: i have a DMZ set up
18:30<@Rubidium>isn't the 0 as pointer but the 'NULL' doesn't necessarily be literally 0 stuff also in the C standard?
18:30<Terkhen>good night
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18:30<@Rubidium>cause I very much doubt that they add such a thing to only C++
18:31<mirQus>I remember some discussions on one mailing list or newsgroup, that NULL is not in C++ actually.
18:31<@Rubidium>and as such the problem with memset is in there too
18:31<SpComb>Eoin: then proto 41 might work, so heartbeat/static could work as well
18:32<mirQus>And in C++ you should compare/initialize pointers with 0. But I think it's goot do differentate integer 0 and empty pointer, so #define NULL 0 is a good thing in my book. ;)
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18:33<Eoin>i picked that other one already
18:36<luckz>how do I dispose of a crashed train again?
18:36<luckz>I'm playing around with PBS and I made three trains crash :D
18:37<Yexo>just wait
18:37<SpComb>luckz: be careful when removing signals or connecting two track segments
18:37<Vaevictus>luckz: or make dupe them irst
18:37<Vaevictus>first... is there a tutorial for pbs?
18:38<Nite_Owl>just the wiki entries
18:38<Yexo>http://wiki.openttd.org/PBS has quite a bit of information
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>there are lots of tutorials
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20:09*SpComb^ considers writing a patch that makes busses stop for 8h each day so that the bus drivers can sleep
20:10<Eoin>lol
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20:13<fjb>They also have to eat.
20:15<Eoin>and smoke, and piss
20:15<fjb>No smoking.
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 22 00:00:41 2010