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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-22

---Logopened Fri Jan 22 00:00:41 2010
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01:38<roboboy>grr NekoMaster can be annoying
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04:05<Sevalecan>gotta love git bisect.
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04:06<Sevalecan>I'm going to find where this bug came from if it's the last thing I do!
04:07<Noldo>I hope it's not
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04:31<vici>morning :-)
04:31<vici>bah
04:31-!-vici is now known as Celestar
04:32<Noldo>that's better
04:32<Noldo>hi
04:32<Celestar>how's everyone doing?
04:32<planetmaker>:-O A Celestar !
04:32-!-Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:32<roboboy>hello
04:32<Celestar>a new planet :D
04:33<planetmaker>how's going?
04:33<planetmaker>Do I now have to say 'you' to you? ;-)
04:33<Celestar>lmao
04:33<Celestar>doing really fine
04:34<planetmaker>good to hear :-)
04:34<Celestar>beeng tracking openttd a bit :)
04:34<planetmaker>hehe. Old addictions die hard, eh?
04:34<Celestar>they never did
04:34<Celestar>I just didn't get around to coding
04:34<__ln>first a Bjarni, now a Celestar. they reappear in alphabetical order.
04:34<Celestar>might resume once my dissertation is finished :)
04:35<planetmaker>oh, I thought it is by now :-)
04:35<Celestar>yeah so did :(
04:35<Celestar>looong story
04:35<planetmaker>welcome to the club
04:35<Celestar>doing 2.5 years of full time sysadmin takes its tool
04:35<Celestar>toll
04:35<planetmaker>yeah
04:36<Celestar>plus I have a job :P
04:36<Noldo>plus?
04:36<planetmaker>not at the 'versity you do your diss?
04:36<Celestar>I quit Uni last fall.
04:36*roboboy wonders whats happening in Eurpoe
04:36<planetmaker>oh. right. That kind of thing
04:36<Celestar>doing real work now :P
04:37<Celestar>software development, for a change.
04:37<planetmaker>he. You were doing what before? Aerodynamics?
04:37<Celestar>yeah
04:37<Celestar>Aerospace Engineering
04:37<@peter1138>__ln, except hackykid as well...
04:37-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
04:37<Celestar>PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETER :D
04:38<Celestar>how ya been?
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04:41<@Rubidium>don't forget DV few months ago
04:42<planetmaker>ghosts roaming these places :-P
04:42<Eddi|zuHause>and truebrain after a few weeks of absence ;)
04:43<@peter1138>hi celestar
04:43<@peter1138>Celestar, i think we're a bit behind with cargodest ;(
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04:47<@Rubidium>anyhow... /me waves to Celestar
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04:48<Celestar>peter1138: slightly?
04:48<Celestar>Rubidium: :)
04:48<Celestar>peter1138: about time we change it? :P
04:48<@Rubidium>Celestar: yeah, we're always using those words :)
04:48<planetmaker>:-D
04:48<@Rubidium>e.g. there has been a slight increase in traffic since 1.0.0-beta
04:48<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/dec2.png
04:50<Celestar>peter1138: but maybe a rewrite is needded :P
04:50<planetmaker>hehe
04:50<Eddi|zuHause>or a review of cargodist?
04:51<@Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/stats.pdf <- also show small spikes with 1.0.0-beta1
04:51<Celestar>lost track of that project tbh
04:52<Celestar>what are the 2 trendlines Rubidium ?
04:53<@Rubidium>one (the green one) is a 2 (or 4?) week average, the other is the trendline as OOcalc think it should be
04:53*roboboy pokes his head back in again
04:54<@Rubidium>oh, 30 day average
04:54<Celestar>both point upwards :P
04:55<@Rubidium>last page is blue number of content downloads, yellow number of MBs downloaded
04:55<planetmaker>he. All downloading base sets, I guess at Christmas?
04:55<@Rubidium>yes... at busy days 30 GB is downloaded via the content download system alone
04:56<@Rubidium>actually, the downloads done by the installer isn't included in either figure
04:56<planetmaker>oh...
04:57<Celestar>mesa liked the installed
04:57<Celestar>installer
05:00*roboboy wonders what nfo stands for
05:00<@Rubidium>nothing
05:01<@Rubidium>although there're probably enough backronyms to be found
05:02<roboboy>yeah
05:02<Wizzleby>you mean it doesn't just stand for 'info'? :)
05:03<Celestar>heh
05:03<roboboy>and would you call it a programming language?
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05:08<Celestar>it's turing complete is it not?
05:09<planetmaker>^ so, yes, it is :-)
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>why would "turing complete" be a requirement for "programming language"?
05:13<Celestar>it's not a requirement
05:13<Celestar>it's an indicator :P
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>and lack of loops is a bit problematic
05:14<planetmaker>difference between necessary and sufficient
05:14<Celestar>afaik turning complete is neither necessary nor sufficient :P
05:14<@Rubidium>argh...
05:15<Celestar>hm .. what IS the status of the Mac port?
05:15<@peter1138>argh?
05:15<planetmaker>discontinued
05:15<@Rubidium>would it be acceptable if you laptop goes into uhm... thermal protected (i.e. kill itself) after 30 seconds of video playback?
05:15<Celestar>forever? :P
05:15<Celestar>Rubidium: if you play less .. hot videos, it might not (=
05:16<@Rubidium>but the daily show isn't that hot
05:16<planetmaker>until someone picks it up again, I guess. With sufficient fevor and knowledge to become an official dev
05:16<@Rubidium>at least not hot enough to show on television here
05:16<Celestar>maybe I should look at it :P
05:17<@Rubidium>you're a mac user now?
05:17<planetmaker>many said that already...
05:17<Celestar>Rubidium: nah I'm not, but I have access to macs.
05:18*roboboy ponders trying to write a wikipedia artice for NFO
05:18<Eddi|zuHause>from what i heard it's knowledge of mac api, not access to mac, that is the problem
05:18<planetmaker>roboboy, wikipedia or the openttd wiki?
05:19<roboboy>wikipedia
05:19<roboboy>its listed under the disambiguation page for NFO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nfo
05:19<planetmaker>then it will probably be classified as 'irrelevant' :-P
05:19<roboboy>It probably will
05:19<@Rubidium>roboboy: first find a number of good sources... otherwise they might quickly kill it again
05:19<roboboy>but ill try
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05:22<Sevalecan>Noldo: it took me until now to get the meaning of "I hope it's not" in response to my comment :P
05:23<Sevalecan>I did find the revision the bug was introduced in without dying, though
05:23<Noldo>great!
05:23<Celestar>why do they have to make DVD playback such a pita?
05:26<roboboy>has it already been written and deleted?
05:26<roboboy>is the TTDP wiki a good initial source?
05:26<@Rubidium>oh yes... this new motherboard really helps with my stability problems...
05:27<@Rubidium>roboboy: no, that's the primary source, not an independent secondary source
05:27<Sevalecan>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3551 <3 I wonder if subversion has an equivalent to git bisect.
05:27<roboboy>hm /me wonders where to find secondary sources on NFO
05:27<@Rubidium>just look at the openttd page discussion about merging with the transport tycoon page
05:28<roboboy>ive read some of it
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05:34<Celestar>hm..
05:34<Celestar>quite neat this VMWare Workstation 7
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06:04<@peter1138>MTBF: 294,928 hour(s)
06:04<@peter1138>isn't that a bit... specific?
06:05<Sevalecan>lol
06:05<Noldo>MTBF?
06:05<Sevalecan>mean time before failure?
06:06<@peter1138>yeah
06:07<@peter1138>is it me, or is that over 33 years?
06:09<Wizzleby>about 33 and 2/3
06:11<@peter1138>mm
06:11<@peter1138>i find that unlikely :)
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06:15<Celestar>mean time between failures afaik
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06:21<@peter1138>yeah i know what MTBF means :)
06:22<Terkhen>hello
06:25<fjb>Be careful, it's a mean time.
06:25<fjb>Moin Terkhen
06:26<__ln>mean time between f***
06:26<@peter1138>yeah, that must mean in some cases it'll be much longer
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06:39<Celestar>Hackykid :D
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06:43<@Rubidium>Pikka!
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06:48<SpComb^>"Unfortunately the university does not allow any external DNS entries, that means anything outside the .utwente.nl range, to point to any machine within the university's IP-range. That includes our server. This means that it is not possible for projects to create a 'ftp1.nl.project.tld' and let that DNS point to our server."
06:48<SpComb^>not possible eh
06:48<@Rubidium>ftp.nl.debian.org?
06:49<Noldo>what does not allowing mean in practice?
06:49<@Rubidium>Noldo: just resolve ftp.nl.debian.org to an IP and reverse dns that to give you a clue
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06:51<@Rubidium>on the other hand, OpenTTD's mirroring system doesn't strictly need it :)
06:51<__ln>how do they not allow it for me, for example?
06:52<Noldo>so they don't want to configure the reverse to from their ip range to outside their dns range
06:53<@Rubidium>ah well, I know at least TWO dnses not in .utwente.nl that resolve to 130.89.0.0/16: ftp.nl.debian.org and utwente.de
06:53<@Rubidium>but technically they don't allow it
06:53<Noldo>what are they doing to stop it?
06:53<@Rubidium>by the looks of it not much
06:54<@Rubidium>but... the question is: what's pointing
06:54<@peter1138>you might end up in the wrong vhost :)
06:54<@peter1138>(if it has vhosts)
06:54<@Rubidium>nl.binaries.openttd.org CNAME ftp.snt.utwente.nl \n ftp.snt.utwente.nl A 130.89.149.20
06:55<@Rubidium>does that mean nl.binaries.openttd.org points to an IP within the 130.89.0.0/16 range?
06:55<Noldo>:)
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07:10<@peter1138>so, er, how do i set up ssh to require a password as well as keys?
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07:17<Sevalecan>is that even possible?
07:17<Sevalecan>unless you have to give a password to the key when you make it..
07:18*Sevalecan doesn't know :P
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07:32<TinoDidriksen>Yeah, you'd have to create the key locked with a password.
07:33<TinoDidriksen>The whole point is that no password is sent over the wire.
07:38<SpComb^>create a custom keyboard-interactive auth method that asks the user to type in their public key
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08:02<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18884 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf.cpp): -Fix: [NewGRF] Perform bounds checking for all NewGRF data reads. Explicit length checks (which were not always correct) are no longer needed so these are removed to simplify code.
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08:07<@Celestar>netsplits have not changed a bit :P
08:08<Forked>hm
08:08<+glx>oh Celestar is back
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08:09<planetmaker>Celestar, they only are present when you're here :-P
08:09<planetmaker>Like "what was that?" - "A plug" - "How do you know" - "I hold it in my hands :-P" ;-)
08:09<@Celestar>oh heya glx
08:10<@Celestar>lol pm
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08:11<planetmaker>joke aside, they're not that often, though. Bad timing, I guess
08:12<@peter1138>(sorry andythenorth)
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08:13<planetmaker>hm @ peter1138 ?
08:13<planetmaker>breaking FIRS?
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08:14<@peter1138>HEQS
08:15<planetmaker>oh. May I ask how? I read the commit, but...
08:15<planetmaker>wait... HEQS has some bad sprites IIRC, right?
08:15<@peter1138>exactly
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08:20<@Celestar>I gotta head out
08:20<@Celestar>work cals
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09:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18885 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r18884): Industry tile layouts weren't completely freed on error.
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09:19<JVassie^>wheres the easiest place to get heightmaps of the uk from pls?
09:19<JVassie^>anyone got any ideas?
09:20<planetmaker>google maps? NASA? ESA?
09:20<Noldo>aren't there some heightmap threads in the forums
09:20<planetmaker>^ might be even easier ;-)
09:20<planetmaker>or even on bananas
09:20<JVassie^>heh
09:21<JVassie^>not looking for all of UK
09:21<planetmaker>ok, easiest: your government bureau of cartography
09:21<planetmaker>But it will cost you
09:21<JVassie^>le sigh :p
09:21<JVassie^>preferably free
09:22<JVassie^>(i know its scabby)
09:22<planetmaker>tsk tsk. All those nasty boundary conditions
09:22<planetmaker>And online even, too
09:22<planetmaker>and digital
09:23<planetmaker>honestly, check out NASA (afair). They have global DEM at ~km scale. But it needs of course processing to something useful for OpenTTD
09:23<JVassie^>yeah
09:23<JVassie^>i have the thread handy
09:23<JVassie^>toconvert them
09:23<JVassie^>using microdem or whatever its called
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09:26<planetmaker>http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/bathymetry/relief.html
09:27<planetmaker>^ JVassie^
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>my new computer is here \o/
09:27<Noldo>we got on Monday \o/
09:27<JVassie^>thnx planetmaker :)
09:28<Noldo>my son really likes the touchscreen
09:28<planetmaker>yw
09:29<planetmaker>good to have it bookmarked. Bad to have it in a pile of hundret bookmarks ;-)
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>question: install first, or put hard drives in it first?
09:30<Noldo>install what?
09:30<planetmaker>dd old system
09:30<planetmaker>and then boot from new ;-)
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i doubt that is a good idea :p
09:32<planetmaker>depends ;-)
09:32<planetmaker>but I wonder why you would want to start the new machine without HDD.
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, it does have A hard drive in it
09:33<planetmaker>ah ;-)
09:34<planetmaker>well, if it is sufficient as system partition. Why not use it as such?
09:34<planetmaker>having that separate is not a bad idea anyway.
09:34<Noldo>I would put all hard drives in first
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>well. i'd rather reuse one of the existing partitioned disks as system, so i could use that one in full...
09:35<planetmaker>then I'd follow Noldo's advice
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09:40<rait>hello. me again with the mysterious exit freeze on server 2008 r2. this time it's beta3. any point in uploading the dump?
09:41<Noldo>it freezes when you click quit ?
09:43<rait>yes
09:43<Noldo>I had that too
09:44<rait>what OS?
09:44<Noldo>ubuntu 9.10
09:45<rait>hmm, probablly different bug, mine seems to be caused by windows's sound system not releasing a channel or something.
09:45<rait>i'm not a dev, but i think it is unrelated to my freeze
09:47<rait>do you have any steps to reproduce?
09:47<Noldo>click quit :)
09:47<rait>happens every time?
09:47<Noldo>yes
09:48<rait>beta3?
09:48<rait>as in openttd 1.0.0-beta3
09:49<@peter1138>use -s null ;)
09:49<rait>who was it addressed to?
09:49<@peter1138>anyone
09:54<planetmaker>rait, the question is: do you have a sure way to reproduce that behaviour?
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09:58<Luukland>Ahum, I reported some graphical glitches some days ago in the nightlies
09:58<Luukland>but they are still excisting
09:59<Luukland>when leaving a game/leaving multiplayer, huge graphic errors, win32, win 7, latest nightly
09:59<planetmaker>oh no!
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10:00<@Belugas>hello
10:00<@peter1138>hmm, don't see any FS report
10:00<Luukland>For these things? :)
10:00<@peter1138>well yes
10:01<Luukland>Let me make one
10:02<Luukland>Ah no, I can't ;) I deleted my account :p
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>what did you do that for?
10:05<Luukland>None of your business
10:06<@Belugas>nasty boy
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10:10<@peter1138>silly RIPE, sending invoices that have already been paid
10:11<planetmaker>he. But maybe accounting needs that for whatever purpose...
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10:17<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm out for a while...
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10:19<luckz>is there btw anything to help distinguish what trains belong to which train set, if you have like 300?
10:20<luckz>also, for using multiple vehicle grfs, is there one to get the default vehicles back/in too?
10:22<Elessar>300 trains. I am only beginning with OpenTTD (and *TTD, by the way), and I do not know hopw you can manage them.
10:22<planetmaker>luckz, use the grf which provides the default vehicles (again)
10:22<planetmaker>Most vehicle newgrfs deactivate the default ones.
10:23<@peter1138>just turn off multiple vehicle sets and stop loading so many
10:26<@Rubidium>rait: does your system have a sound card? If so, which one?
10:26<luckz>planetmaker: I don't see "the grf which provides the default vehicles" in my Available NewGRF Files window, so.. do I have to make a copy of trg*.grf somewhere else, or ..?
10:27<Yexo>luckz: no, you have to download origveh.grf
10:28<planetmaker>^
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10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18886 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r18884): Spurious casting
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10:39<rait>planetmaker: i have no way's to reproduce it, at least nothing that is 100% reliable
10:40<rait>i only see this after playing sessions, ant they usually take hours. no way to tell what trigers it
10:40<planetmaker>rait, if you have a non-reliable way it's better than none ;-)
10:40<planetmaker>as long as the non-reliable way is... faster than hours ;-)
10:41<planetmaker>e.g. do A, do B, do C, then D and with 70% you get a hang
10:41<rait>Rubidium, only the one integrated on the mobo
10:41<rait>planetmaker, if there is one, i haven't found it yet
10:43<rait>Rubidium, motherboard is Asus M3N-hd/hdmi if that helps. a real beast with a total of 4 ways to output audio
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10:47<rait>okay, just found a way to reproduce it. seems to be 100% and no problems with '-s null'
10:48<rait>steps: 1. start 2. load a game 3. change the windows default audio output 4. save game 5. exit 6. freeze
10:49<rait>just tested, you can skip steps 2 and 4
10:50<rait>can anyone test this and verify?
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10:51<planetmaker>just for curiosity: what is "window default audio output 4"? I usually have one... and that's the speakers
10:51<+glx>rait: like changing from speaker to digital ?
10:51<rait>glx, yes
10:51<+glx>I can try
10:52<rait>in my case from speakers to hdmi or back
10:52<+glx>I have only speaker and digital ;)
10:52<rait>planetmaker, i have 4 audio outputs, 2 of them disabled. 4 is actually the fourth step in this case
10:54<Luukland>thx for fixing the graphic errors peter1138 :)
10:54<rait>glx, can you reproduce the freeze?
10:54<@peter1138>?
10:54<+glx>compiling ;)
10:55<+glx>I try with trunk directly
10:55<rait>ok
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11:00<+glx>confirmed
11:00<+glx>now I can try to fix it
11:01<rait>if this ends up with a complaint to M$, i'll be happy to sign it :)
11:04<@peter1138>Luukland, what fix?
11:06<SpComb^>woo, tracking some external .patch in a branch: git revert --no-commit && git apply ...
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11:07<wysiwtf>mmh
11:08<wysiwtf>im thinking about how hard it would be to add other "networks" to ottd
11:08<wysiwtf>like a power and a data-network
11:08<wysiwtf>or water
11:09<wysiwtf>building it could be like building tracks, but there would be no vehicles but a throuhput of the track itself
11:10<wysiwtf>would that be possible with existing grf toolkits or would the core-app need to be touched
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11:17<luckz>SpComb^: what exactly does your (almost-)everything build contain? besides the two obvious biggies, IS & CD..
11:18<SpComb^>luckz: mystery! :)
11:18<SpComb^>luckz: nah... it's stuff from my openttd/patches/ dir, as in my thread in the dev forum
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11:19<SpComb^>gathers: reading this diff-diff, I see you made some changes to the add-20ms-bit?
11:19<luckz>the one with variable daylength, town growth, timetable-autofilling, towncargostuff, name length limit, minus the changes post jan11? or a different thread?
11:19<SpComb^>that one
11:21<gathers>SpComb^: from the previous patch? yes, I removed it from one place where it wasn't needed
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11:23<SpComb^>might be imagining it but the wait times do seem a tad shorter
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11:26<gathers>possible, or atleast they shoud get shorter faster
11:31<SpComb^>is there a 1.0 branch for git?
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11:33<Yexo>there is no 1.0 branch currently, so not for git either
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11:35<SpComb^>seems like the tag-commits don't go into git?
11:36-!-woldemar [~world@188.122.236.18] has joined #openttd
11:36<SpComb^>just wondering if it's possible to build a release version off git
11:37<Yexo>why not? see http://git.openttd.org/openttd/branches/0.7.git/ for example
11:37<TrueBrain>release tags are not exported to git or mercurial
11:37<SpComb^>well yes, r18871 isn't in git :(
11:38<Yexo>r18871 isn't tagged with the svn version in mercurial either, maybe something went wrong with git too
11:39<Yexo>oh, ignore that
11:39<@peter1138>most likely git/hg only track trunk?
11:40<@peter1138>branches being handled differently in svn
11:40<TrueBrain>no, they also track branches
11:40<TrueBrain>just not tags
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11:42<TrueBrain>normal git/hg tags btw don't work: tags in subversion are not clean tags, there are changes while tagging .. a bit nasty way of tagging, but it works :)
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12:03<rait>seems that openttd isn't the only thing i manage to crash
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12:11<Eddi|zuHause>hm... so at least that part worked...
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>two hours to move the hard drives, and get the old computer running again...
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>question: how does one steer two computers with one mouse?
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>and this hard disk is really loud... i should have chosen a different one...
12:13<fjb>Steer to ebay and get e second mouse.
12:14<fjb>What hard disk is it? Some anti vibration stuff may help.
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>not worth it... some old WD with 120GB
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>and the colours are totally off when i attach the TFT via VGA cable...
12:16<fjb>Colors on TFT are always off.
12:16<SpComb^>pfft
12:16<SpComb^>someone broke your computer?
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>no, i bought a new one
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>so i connected the new one via DVI and the old one via VGA to the same monitor
12:21<fjb>Sounds like the vga port of the monitor is crap.
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12:25<Eddi|zuHause>might be the cable...
12:26<@Belugas>call the cable guy!
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>so, i have now two computers, one monitor, two keyboards and one-and-a-half mice... i'm getting hopelessly confused
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12:38<Alberth>give one computer away
12:38<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you always have problems, don't you? :p
12:38<fjb>Front or back half?
12:39<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: you don't want or need two desktops
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12:41<Goulp>eddi: what should i say with 4 computers, 1 with display,keyb,mouse and others without display keyb and mouse...
12:41<Terkhen>I converted my old desktop in a server that I never use
12:41<SpComb^>yes, that's how you're supposed to do it
12:41<Goulp>hopfully they have network cable and remote connection
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12:42<SpComb^>uh oh, my WS2008 VM somehow managed to corrupt itself
12:43<fjb>Wer have 2010, no wonder WS2008 doesn't work anymore.
12:43<thingwath>I wonder where my second computer is. It doesn't answer on network.
12:44<SpComb^>which is somewhat annoying
12:44<SpComb^>since the only snapshot of it that I have is from before I set up VS2008
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>lack of backup strategy...
12:45<@Rubidium>WS = Wisual Studio? or Windows Server?
12:45<SpComb^>WS = Windows Server, VS = Visual Studio
12:45<fjb>And time to set up somethning more stable.
12:46<SpComb^>didn't anticipate it corrupting its login GUI dlls
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a virus gone haywire
12:54<SpComb^>http://en.community.dell.com/forums/t/19303664.aspx
12:54<SpComb^>disk error in my virtual machine? :o
12:56<Alberth>that's a good emulation :p
12:56<luckz>what do you use VS for?
12:57*SpComb^ searches for the "random disk errors" check box in his VirtualBox setup
12:57<@Rubidium>SpComb^: all it requires is a somewhat flaky CPU or motherboard
12:57<@Rubidium>or memory or ...
12:57<Alberth>of course there isn't one. Did you ever find such a switch at your HD?
12:59<fjb>You find it inside. Just open the case.
12:59<@Belugas>don't try this at home, kids. those guys are professionals
13:00<fjb>We are good at giving good advises.
13:01<@Rubidium>actually, the last time I opened a HDD it became better than it was before
13:02<TrueBrain>I tried it last week, but it never came back :p
13:02<@Rubidium>although that was like 15 years ago with an already 10 year old HDD (1 GB SCSI 2x5.25")
13:03<@Rubidium>that uhm... was in a remodelling (i.e. lots of dust) environment
13:03<@Rubidium>opening it and putting some oil on the bearings did help
13:03<TrueBrain>I did learn not to spin up a 7200rpm HD when it is open .. it is SCARY!
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>did it cause death? :p
13:05<TrueBrain>haha
13:06<TrueBrain>Yeah, they have internet there too
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13:13<DJ_Danni>hi
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13:29<Ammler>someone else tried to install beta3 on windows? (download of [g|s]fx failed
13:29-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host13-161-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:29<Ammler>(with installer)
13:29<luckz>don't think I ever tried the installer, no
13:30<Wolf01>hello :O
13:30-!-TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:30<Ammler>if you have windows, could you try, so we can confirm issues, maybe with the new mirroring system
13:30<Forked>fails on xp (32bit)
13:31<Forked>instant fail
13:31<Ammler>now, who does bugreport :-)
13:31<Forked>not me, sorry. Dinnertime
13:32<@peter1138>Ammler, you
13:32<SpComb^>why is the DirectX SDK 2007 installer an .msi inside a self-extracting .exe inside a self-extracting .exe?
13:32<@peter1138>it would make a change ;p
13:33<@peter1138>because microsoft are strange
13:33<Sacro>higher compression?
13:33<SpComb^>worse
13:34<SpComb^>they should just distribute the samples separately and they'd save 80% of the bandwidth
13:34<Yexo>installer tries to download from http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/* but that directory doesn't exist
13:34<Ammler>where shall I report it to? (Website, so Truebrain will see it..)
13:35<Ammler>Yexo, will you report, you seem already have the solution?
13:36<Yexo>no
13:36<Yexo>I don't have the solution
13:36<@Rubidium>Yexo: try binaries.openttd.org/installer/opengfx-0.7.7z (or whatever install.nsi says)
13:36<+glx>404
13:36<Yexo>http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/opengfx-0.7.0.gz 404
13:37-!-TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
13:37<frosch123>http://cz.binaries.openttd.org/openttd/binaries/installer/ <- from there i get all
13:37<+glx>http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/opengfx-0.7.0.7z works for me (IPv6 so nl)
13:38<@Rubidium>Yexo: .7z, not .gz
13:38<Ammler>http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/opengfx-0.7.0.7z works
13:38<Yexo>oh, that works indeed
13:38<Ammler>from gb.
13:39<@Rubidium>so for some reason it can't follow the mirror's redirect
13:42<@peter1138>"GET /binaries/installer/opengfx-0.7.0.7z HTTP/1.1" 200 2842360 "-" "NSISDL/1.2 (Mozilla)"
13:42<@peter1138>NSISDL is the installer?
13:42<Yexo>yes
13:42<@peter1138>it was working this morning then
13:43<@peter1138>though that might not've been beta3
13:43-!-George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd
13:44<Yexo>beta2 doesn't work either
13:45<@Rubidium>there's someone on the forum that claims it doesn't work either
13:45<@Rubidium>although... that it worked for peter1138 might also be some transparent proxy "doing the right thing"
13:45<@peter1138>that's just the log, i never tried it myself
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18887 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 120 changes by Tvel
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: catalan - 4 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:45<@peter1138>does 0.7.5 have the downloader too?
13:46<+glx>no
13:46-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
13:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18888 /trunk/src/table/ (sprites.h town_land.h): -Codechange: Rename PALETTE_59[EF] to something more meaningful.
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13:59<SpComb^>curious how VS doesn't seem to offer any way to abort a running build
14:00<@Rubidium>it does, under the build thing (ctrl-break/end or something)
14:01<SpComb^>although hmm, I'm really starting to think that VirtualBox is broken... "G:\...\objs\Win32\Release is not accessible. The file or directory is corrupted and unreadable."
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14:03<devilsadvocate>hi, not sure if this is where i should be asking, but is the powerplant in the ECS newGRFs broken? the stantion nears it doesnt accept coal/oil...
14:04<George>devilsadvocate: When? first 3 days of game - should not. Oil should not be accepted before 1950-th
14:05-!-Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit []
14:05<devilsadvocate>1st Jan 1914
14:05<George>game started in?
14:05<devilsadvocate>it seems to accept only passengers :\
14:05<devilsadvocate>the same day
14:05<devilsadvocate>oh, it takes 3 days
14:05*devilsadvocate checks
14:05<George>wait till 4-th of jan
14:05-!-Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@81.135.85.113] has joined #openttd
14:05<devilsadvocate>yep
14:06<devilsadvocate>my bad
14:06<devilsadvocate>thanks :)
14:06<George>the same for the most of the industries
14:06<devilsadvocate>also, is the japanese trainset capable of handling the cargoes in the ECS vectors?
14:06<devilsadvocate>or should i get URKS as well
14:06<George>I do not know
14:06<devilsadvocate>i cant seem to find anything that says it can, so i suppose that means it cant
14:11<SpComb^>unix2dos for msys: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/cygutils.htm - Binaries + Depedencies
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14:25<TrueBrain>glx / Ammler : probe
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>is there a way to move a program from one display to another?
14:30<TrueBrain>In linux? As in, from :1001 to :1002?
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:30<TrueBrain>or do you want my catchy answer: with the mouse! :p
14:30-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:30<TrueBrain>there are a few apps which can try to move applications, but most applications do not support it and segfault when you do
14:30<TrueBrain>applications have to implement some X11 command, which most do no
14:30<TrueBrain>t
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, ok...
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>brb
14:31<TrueBrain>can't remember the tool who could do it :(
14:31-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76FF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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14:34<Eddi|zuHause>different approach, if i ssh -X into a computer, and open programs there, can i make it so the programs stay alive when i quit SSH, and reappear when i reconnect?
14:34<TrueBrain>nope
14:35<TrueBrain>most applications segfault if they can't communicate with the X11 anymore
14:35<TrueBrain>you can try putting them to sleep (CTRL+Z)
14:35<TrueBrain>some survive
14:35<TrueBrain>most don't
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>well, can't ssh keep alive the X server?
14:35<TrueBrain>the only real solution I found was NoMachines NXServer
14:36<TrueBrain>it fakes a whole X11 login, and forwards you the screen (in an efficient way)
14:36<TrueBrain>an other solution would be VNCServer, but that is much more inefficient
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>i should just throw mythtv on the box and put it somewhere i don't remember...
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>... i hate "bogus" progress bars that just go back and forth without displaying any actual progress...
14:38-!-Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd
14:40*Eoin is now officially certified by Microsoft!
14:40<TrueBrain>my condolances
14:41<Eoin>heh
14:41<TrueBrain>owh, you are proud at it?
14:41<TrueBrain>sorry, my mistake
14:41<Eoin>lol
14:41<TrueBrain>can't imagine why .. but everyone his/her fun
14:42<Eoin>well
14:42<Eoin>it means i can say i acheived something from college
14:43<TrueBrain>I wish I wouldn't receive an email with a complaint, and the two people who are referred in it to know more, not being here :p
14:43<TrueBrain>all this trouble of joining this channel .. all the typing
14:43<TrueBrain>:p :p
14:45-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
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14:53<Eddi|zuHause>what's the complaint?
14:54<TrueBrain> binaries balancer and windows installer
14:54<TrueBrain>my guess is it doesn't understand HTTP Code 307
14:55<Yexo>you miseed a few more complains when you in the time you left irc :p
14:56<TrueBrain>I am sure I missed many more :) I only care about the ones people take the effort to let me know ;)
15:04<SpComb^>xscreen
15:04<SpComb^>some kind of persistent re-attachable XServer proxy
15:04<SpComb^>should exist
15:04<TrueBrain>any form of that fails more than it works
15:04<SpComb^>(like, should exist in an ideal world)
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15:08<+glx>[20:25:46] <TrueBrain> glx / Ammler : probe <-- yes ?
15:09<TrueBrain>glx: you know more about windows installer issues?
15:09<TrueBrain>(downloading stuff)
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15:10<+glx>I just know it's an nsis plugin
15:10<+glx>and it used to work ;)
15:10<TrueBrain>Rubidium told me it currently fails with the new balancer code, and that you might be able to help out testing?
15:11<+glx>yes I can test running the installer (but I'm fighting with a deadlock bug ;) )
15:11<TrueBrain>no rush
15:11<SpComb^>I'd test it but my mouse cursor is broken
15:12<TrueBrain>those windows users just wait :) Mwhaha ;)
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15:14<@peter1138>Eoin is "certified"?
15:14-!-Ruudjah [~rtimon@w236-87-28-81.dynamic.aerea.nl] has joined #openttd
15:14<TrueBrain>peter1138: you got my requests yesterday? Mostly about changing the rdns of the ip?
15:14<@peter1138>nope
15:14<TrueBrain>can you change the rdns from uk to gb.binaries.openttd.org
15:14<Eoin>peter1138: IC3 lol
15:15<@peter1138>but but!
15:15<@peter1138>it's uk :(
15:15<TrueBrain>we are phasing out 'uk.binaries.openttd' rather fast
15:15<TrueBrain>GB is your landcode, sorry .. complain to ISO if you don't like it
15:15-!-Hackykid [~quassel@86.85.232.104] has joined #openttd
15:15<TrueBrain>and I had another request, which I forgot ..... sad
15:15<@peter1138>hehe
15:16<TrueBrain><TrueBrain> peter1138: I didn't know if you wanted a link to you or your company or what ever for the mirror, so it just names your name for now. If you like to have that changed, please let me know. (refering to: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?uid=3036&f=29&t=46889&start=0 / http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mirror.txt / http://www.openttd.org/links
15:16<TrueBrain>the grebs is nice
15:16<@peter1138>oh
15:16<@peter1138>no, not really
15:17<TrueBrain>k :)
15:18<Ammler>TrueBrain: I am no windows pro, can't help you more, just felt over it as I setup openttd on a windows..., back at KDE now, but if needed I can test again...
15:18<andythenorth>hi hi
15:18<TrueBrain>I need someone to test it a few times, so I can test different replies
15:21<Ammler>Well, I can do that from vbox...
15:22<Ammler>just ping :-)
15:22<TrueBrain>well, go ahead :p
15:23<@peter1138>TrueBrain, done, btw
15:23<TrueBrain>peter1138: tnx
15:24-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFB9B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
15:27<SpComb^>http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/contrib/client-side/svn-clean <-- tsk, and it isn't even a .sh script
15:28<@peter1138>excessive!
15:28<TrueBrain>Ammler: and?
15:28<SpComb^>ridiculous how people seem to expect you have some dying language such as Perl 5 installed!
15:29<Ammler>TrueBrain: still
15:29<Ammler>"Downloading of OpenGFX failed"
15:29<TrueBrain>and now?
15:30<Ammler>Downloading OpenSFX failed
15:30<TrueBrain>owh, now it even fails in FF :p
15:30<TrueBrain>now?
15:31<Ammler>works, genious :-)
15:31<TrueBrain>problem is I need to send a 301, not a 307
15:31<TrueBrain>(perm, instead of temp)
15:31<@peter1138>nasty
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>why does the phrase "now?" ... "and now?" ... cause the reaction of "DONKEY!!"?
15:31<TrueBrain>Ammler: can you run it again?
15:32<Yexo>detect the useragent of the installer and send a 301 in that case and 307 in all other cases?
15:32<TrueBrain>Yexo: exactly my plan :)
15:32<Ammler>hmm
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15:33<Ammler>now it was a bit other, it had a long timeout
15:33<TrueBrain>yeah, was modifying
15:33<TrueBrain>hit it again please
15:33<Ammler>works
15:33<TrueBrain>k, 301 for everything that starts with NSISDL in user-agent
15:33<TrueBrain>307 for all the other sane people in the world
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>"other"?
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>"sane"?
15:34<TrueBrain>excluding Eddi|zuHause of course :)
15:34<Ammler>maybe you can configure NSIS?
15:34<TrueBrain>I think NSIS simply did not implement 307, but only 301
15:34<TrueBrain>while they are of the same spec ..
15:35<TrueBrain>bah, now the balance-tree has to retrain itself ... takes more than 24 hours :p
15:35-!-phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:36<TrueBrain>k, fine-tuned the algorithm a bit .. but so far it seems to work as intended :)
15:37<TrueBrain>tnx Ammler
15:37<TrueBrain>glx: problem already fixed ;) Good luck with your deadlock :(
15:37<Ammler>I'm here to serve :-P
15:37<TrueBrain>if only that was true
15:38<TrueBrain>:p
15:38<Ammler>and of course to request this and that...
15:40<Ammler>btw. why I am redirected to gb, isn't nl closer?
15:40<TrueBrain>nl no longer exist; and 'master' is being offloaded as much as possible
15:40<Ammler>or is that "balancing" :-)
15:40<TrueBrain>we should have a new nl by the end of next week
15:41-!-KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-158-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>i thought we have friday...
15:41<TrueBrain>but even with it, you have a good chance ending up at a nearby mirror like GB or CZ
15:42<Ammler>indeed, cz would also be nearer
15:42<TrueBrain>CZ is much more loaded, so it offloads to GB :p
15:42<TrueBrain>in the last 5 minutes, 27 requests were for CZ, 5 for GB (0 for NL/Master)
15:42<Ammler>well done
15:43<TrueBrain>I hope some mirror comes for Asia soon, so that traffic stays there too as much as possible
15:43<TrueBrain>Australia would be nice too ..
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15:45<TrueBrain>http://paste.openttd.org/221001 <- last snapshot before reset. Meaning: country:load:requests:totalbandwidth
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>could check the japanese forum if someone there can host a mirror?
15:45<TrueBrain>feel free
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>i don't speak japanese ;)
15:46<TrueBrain>neither do I
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15:47<Eddi|zuHause>there might be a person in here that visited japan for a while :p
15:47<TrueBrain>I think that person has enough other things to do
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15:55<SpComb^>svn revert -R "$wc" && for file in $(svn status "$wc" | grep -e '^?' | cut -b 9-); do rm -r "$file"; done
15:55<SpComb^>perfectly safe, guaranteed not to delete anything important :)
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16:01<lennard>hi!
16:01<lennard>TrueBrain around?
16:01-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc35d5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
16:01<TrueBrain>more a rectangle
16:02<@Belugas>lol
16:02<@Belugas>good one :D
16:02<lennard>*a*round, not round :P
16:02<TrueBrain>I am not known for my reading
16:02-!-Hackykid [~quassel@86.85.232.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:02<Xaroth>TrueBrain: get ready to get to yer SS then :P
16:02*lennard would like to have a not-so-slow chat about the whole mirror stuff in private if at all possible ;)
16:03<lennard>mail can get so cumbersome ;)
16:03<TrueBrain>feel free
16:03<TrueBrain>and hello Belugas :)
16:04<@Belugas>hello my friend :) as i can see, you have not ost your humour over time ;)
16:05<TrueBrain>never will ;)
16:06<@Belugas>hehe
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16:12-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
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16:21<TrueBrain>all gives a good hand to lennard for trying to get us a NL mirror :)
16:21*lennard bows
16:22-!-amiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
16:23<TrueBrain>boring crowd here tonight ..
16:23<lennard>also, your topic is weird
16:23<lennard>but I'm sure y'all knew that
16:23<TrueBrain>why?
16:24<lennard>its formatting suggest a list of key->value pairs, but I don't see sense in it
16:24<Eoin>Hmm
16:24<Xaroth>because there's that many subdomains :P
16:24<lennard>unless the al are values for *
16:24<lennard>that might make sense
16:24<lennard>all*
16:24<Xaroth>ye
16:24<TrueBrain>;)
16:24<Eoin>IPv6, this company want to hurry up and set me up a tunnel :D
16:24<lennard>don't try to hurry sixxs, they'll smell it and make you wait :P
16:25<TrueBrain>and some cocky people work there :s
16:25<lennard>yup
16:25<TrueBrain>tried to get an OpenTTD account and a personal account
16:25<TrueBrain>after 7 mails, he still didn't understand
16:25<lennard>very knowledgeable, too, but cocky
16:25<TrueBrain>(or didn't want to)
16:25<TrueBrain>I am happy to say OpenTTD now runs native IPv6, so I don't have to deal with that anymore :)
16:25<lennard>are you sure you really want to do openttd-stuff over... right, that
16:26<lennard>I wouldnt risk non-native for 'production'
16:26<lennard>well, that is to say, I wouldn't advise it, I still do it myself
16:26<TrueBrain>LeaseWeb was so nice to connect us as one of the first :)
16:26<lennard>they can be nice if they want to :)
16:26<TrueBrain>They are mostly nice to us :)
16:28<Eoin><DJ_Danni> Hey when i try to run Tycoon i get error in DPLAY.DLL
16:28<fjb>Maybe they use OpenTTD to simulate their network.
16:28<Eoin>DJ_Danni ask in the openttd channel :)
16:28<Xaroth>I think LeaseWeb has bigger fish than ottd :P
16:28<TrueBrain>I sure they do; still, they treat us nice :)
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16:28<lennard>yeah.. you do know its just because they love to play ttd, right? :)
16:29-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:29<TrueBrain>pretty sure they do :)
16:29<@peter1138>who doesn't?
16:29<Xaroth>people with no sense of awesome
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16:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18889 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use (GroundSprite|SpriteLayout)PaletteTransform() also for drawing of default industries. They are compatible since the bubblegenerator is also randomly recoloured.
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16:59<Terkhen>good night
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17:15<Wolf01>'night
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17:15<Xaroth>Rubidium: you almost had him killed :P
17:16<@Belugas>bye bye!
17:17<Xaroth>o/ Belugas
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17:20<@peter1138>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Indian_Pacific_Perth,_Western_Australia.jpg
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>why did nobody ever complain that the bubble generator was changed from original TTD behaviour? :p
17:21<@peter1138>that would require railtypes with no engine
17:21<@peter1138>s/complain/notice/ ?
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17:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18890 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Unify drawing of foundations for MP_UNMOVABLE.
17:33<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: because sirkoz only plays temperate
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17:53<SpComb^>hmm... findversion.sh's CLEAN_VER still includes the 'M' flag?
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17:56<SpComb^>what zip binary does the Makefile.bundle.in use?
17:56<@Rubidium>zip?
17:56<SpComb^>http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/zip.htm <-- this?
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>whichever is in the path, i presume...
17:57<@Rubidium>@kb HeavenRaiser
17:57-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Orangutan@*.171.32.6.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] by Rubidium
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17:57-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!*Administr@89.246.221.*] by Rubidium
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18:01<@Rubidium>sorry for banning you HerzogDeXtEr; didn't see feedback from banning Heavnraiser and tab completion kinda failed
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18:05<Muxy>@seen petert
18:05<@DorpsGek>Muxy: petert was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 7 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <PeterT> No what?
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18:25<SpComb^>it would be convenient if findversion.sh also printed out the plain rev/branch without the 'M' as a fifth param
18:27<SpComb^>also very annoying... findversion.sh takes the "Last changed Rev:" off the src\ dir, so if there's a rev that doesn't touch src/, it ignores it...
18:27<SpComb^>but I guess that's intentional?
18:27<@Rubidium>yes, that's intentional
18:27<@Rubidium>because the network protocol doesn't change between them
18:28<SpComb^>myes
18:29<@Rubidium>but a modified branch, what are you using that for?
18:29<SpComb^>not using a branch
18:30<SpComb^>I just mean it'd be useful to get a "this build was based off rXXXXX" rev for my use-case
18:30<SpComb^>http://yzzrt.qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/scripts/build.sh
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18:31<@Rubidium>use the 2nd one
18:31<@Rubidium>that way it works for mercurial stuff too
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18:33<SpComb^>true, didn't quite see that one
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18:53<Eddi|zuHause>hm... but somehow computer A can output its sound on computer B via network, right?
18:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18891 /trunk/src/spriteloader/png.cpp: -Fix: Avoid duplicate path separator when searching for PNG files which prevented tar-lookups.
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18:55<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: pulseaudio
18:56<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: ah, I get it, you're trying to use your old computer as a headless server :)
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes ;)
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18:56<Eddi|zuHause>i should probably just forget it, but the problem is the DVB-S card doesn't fit in the new one
18:57<SpComb^>what I do is run mocp/spotify over ssh on my headless server (hooked up to speakers)
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>(they advertised a PCI slot, but it's blocked by the GPU fan)
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>and the fan seems very loud...
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19:01<fjb>Replace the graphics card.
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19:20<SpComb^>silly windows and its "FLEST" timezone
19:20<SpComb^>timezones != political daylight-saving-time regions
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19:26<SmatZ>so I left pub today, and there was bus in flames :-p http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/bus/
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>i almost had something like that a month ago...
19:28-!-Chrill [~chrischri@h-16-169.A149.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>it smelled like burned rubber, and when the bus stopped, there was smoke coming from one of the wheels
19:29<SmatZ>:-)
19:29<SmatZ>people said someone threw molotov cocktail in the bus
19:29<SmatZ>I don't know, I wasn't there
19:29<SmatZ>but I had to go by foot :-x
19:30<SmatZ>I hope it's not true... people are nice here :(
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause2>hm, the disconnect script fails when i run konversation from ssh...
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19:41<Bluelight>Good night!
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19:43<SpComb^>http://pastebin.com/m2ffacebb <-- there, fancy .sh script
19:45<SpComb^>you run it using something like: build.bat -C -r 18870 -p patches/cargodist-minipack-r18870.patch trunk-r18870 cargodist-minipack PATCH_OPTS=-p1
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't look very useful to me...
19:45<SpComb^>and the output might be something like: http://yzzrt.qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/scripts/openttd-cargodist-minipack-r18869M-win32.txt
19:47<SpComb^>well, it saves you the trouble of preparing your svn dir for a patch, applying it, and then booting up Visual Studio, clicking around, building the bundle from the MSYS command line, and then gathering up the .zip, .pdb and .patch
19:47<SpComb^>here, you just need some kind of svn working copy to use, the path to the .patch file, the svn rev to use, and... well... you get a .zip, .patch, .pdb and .log
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but i wouldn't do any of that anyway
19:48<SpComb^>well, never mind that :)
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this computer is really really loud...
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>i'm considering just sending it back...
19:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have use for such a noisy device
19:49<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: warranty so you can't mod it quieter yourself?
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: i'd rather save that money...
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm not comfortable with modding
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>installing hard drives is dangerous enough...
19:51<SpComb^>well, replace GFX card, or install aftermarket GFX cooler
19:51<SpComb^>both of them go some way towards killing your warranty, though
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i can't stand that noise...
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>it's loud even when music is playing...
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>good night anyway...
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20:32<_Ben_>Hi
20:32-!-phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd
20:32<_Ben_>Anybody around who knows the reason why in the 'openttdw' folder there appears to be multiple versions of the same sprites?
20:33<_Ben_>There appears to be a duplicate sprite in the originals on trg1r as well. 991 and 999. Bit puzzled
20:34<_Ben_>er sorry, I'm refering to the embankment/foundation sprites specifically
20:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r18892 /trunk/src/sound/win32_s.cpp: -Fix: in some rare case a deadlock could happen when stopping sound driver (windows)
20:40<Ammler>_Ben_: maybe one for houses, the other for rail or such?
20:42<_Ben_>there visually identical I beleive, so is there some need for the game to call on different sprites for different reasons regardless of there visual simiarities?
20:42<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=991,999 <-- both are there in all known sets...
20:44<_Ben_>yeah, in the 'openttdw' set the've all been made, but I'm confused as to why there are so many. Theres 87 sprites to make in the other folder, probably only around 30 unique sprites though...so the file is way bigger
20:46<Ammler>well, make one ugly red and see if you have those on the map...
20:47<_Ben_>yeah, might come down to that
20:48<Yexo>seeing those sprites I think one of them is for tiles with only the south corner raised and one is for tiles with both the south and the north corner raised
20:48<_Ben_>also, are the sprites off the original trg1r file used anymore? I've replaced them but can't find them in game
20:48<Yexo>not if you use opengfx
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20:50<Ammler>(easiest is to symlink ogfx1_base with trg1r
20:50<_Ben_>Yexo, those sprites are identical in everything I can see, metadata also
20:50-!-Chrill [~chrischri@h-16-169.A149.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit []
20:50<_Ben_>I'm not running opengfx in the game I'm testing sprites in, but can't see the foundation sprites from trg1r
20:51<_Ben_>symlinking is another issue I'm having. I'm running windows XP. I can make a simlink equivelent, but when I make a .tar it is double the nessesery size
20:51<_Ben_>zip'in the tar doesn't notice this replication either
20:52<Ammler>the script above would make you a newgrf :-)
20:53<Ammler>you can use ":" for ranges
20:56<_Ben_>how do I view sprites in the other set 'openttdw'?
20:56<Ammler>that is already a newgrf
20:57<Yexo>you can decode it with grfcoded
20:57<Ammler>(not viewable with my script)
20:57<Yexo>or grf2html
20:58<Ammler>that grf is another reason you should make a newgrf for your sprites, as it can change
20:58<_Ben_>hmm, your loosing me. That page is pretty handy for transfering metadata to a bat file for pngcodec
20:58<Yexo>both sprite 991 and 999 are ment to make a sloped tile look flat with foundations
20:59<Yexo>base number is 989 and then add the slope to that
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20:59<Yexo>only south corner raised = 2 (so sprite 991)
20:59<Yexo>both south and north corners raised = 10 (so sprite 999)
21:00<Ammler>_Ben_: If there is interest, I could modify/update that script
21:01<Ammler>We used it for opengfx development
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21:02<_Ben_>um, I've jumped into something I do not know enough about. I thourhgt sprites 989 and below where the face sprites. I'm awair of what 991 and 999 are used for, just not why there are 2...unless there used together?
21:03<Yexo>sprites 990:1003 are used as foundations
21:03<_Ben_>Ammler, it's really helpful if I can quickly find the alignment values for sprites...Being able to see all sprites in any of the folder/files would be great
21:03<Yexo>if something needs a flat tile but isn't build on a flat tile, then a foundation sprite is drawn under it
21:03<_Ben_>Yexo, yep, I get that. I understand the use of the tiles as well
21:04<_Ben_>but they are 2 of the same sprite, which is a singular example of the sprite repetition seen in the openttdw folder for sprites 843-884
21:04<Yexo>well there are 2 because openttd just uses base+slope value, so internally it doesn't know these 2 sprites are the same
21:04<Ammler>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=0:1,679:770,774,1251:1274,1291:1300,1309:1312,2010,2429:2436,2593:2600,2724:2726,3090:3091,3668,4077:4089,4791:4792&h=555:556&t=329:340,885:901,1058:1065,1178:1193 <-- example to generate GUI newgrf
21:04<Ammler>(you can combine different base files)
21:04<Yexo>Ammler: would just decoding opengfx give exactly the same information?
21:05<Ammler>when I update it, yes :-)
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21:06<Yexo>_Ben_: all sprites between 843 and 884 should be different (maybe only slighly different, but different)
21:07<Yexo>if they're equal, complain to opengfx that they should add more variation to the faces :p
21:07<Ammler>complain to yourself then :-P
21:07<Yexo>they'll like it much better if you add better sprites to that complained though
21:08<Ammler>Yexo: faces are iirc from him
21:08<_Ben_>I'm looking at the originals in trg1r and the 2 are identical. I'm then looking at the 32bpp full zoom sprites for openttdw and there are multiple that are the same
21:09<Ammler>openttdw doesn't have faces
21:09<Ammler>hmm
21:10<_Ben_>no...I'm not talking about faces...I know about the faces, I'm ben_robbins_ on the forum
21:10<Yexo>I just figured that out :)
21:10<Ammler>yeah :-D
21:11<SpComb^>hmm, 32-bit build .zip bundle fits on TT-Forums, 64-bit build .zip bundle doesn't
21:12<SpComb^>(assuming this 3990KB that explorer shows is indeed under 4MiB)
21:12<SpComb^>orudge: you should consider raising the limit for attachment sizes some day, perhaps people would stop posting .rar's
21:14<_Ben_>Yexo, I don't have the file at hand to look at the opengfx or original-modified sprites which allow the additional embankment combo's, but if I look at the 32bpp fullzoom one there are some completely identical files in there. I havnt' noticed a bug in game from this..maybe I need to look closure though
21:15<Ammler>SpComb^: maybe it counts bytes
21:15<Yexo>_Ben_: if you're still talking about sprites 991 and 999, it's completely valid for them to be exactly the same
21:17<_Ben_>ok, so thats a seperate 'issue' to the other set? Still leaves me wondering why there are 2 of the same, care to ellaborate?
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21:19<_Ben_>Ammler: is it possible to view files 888, 892 and 884 from the original sprite set on that script/site?
21:20*SpComb^ waits while chkdisk deletes his build dir
21:20<+glx>SpComb^: you can try 7z instead zip ;)
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21:26*SpComb^ grows tired of constantly having to clean out random OpenTTD build dirs because of his vbox image swallowing up his /home/ partition's free space
21:27<Ammler>_Ben_: you mean from openttdw.grf?
21:28<_Ben_>yeah, I'm not clear on the rearranging of them if there has been one. I havn't followed that. I'm just looking at the original sprites and OTTD's add-on's
21:28<Ammler>as that is a newgrf, it didn't make sense for me to make a newgrf generator :-)
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21:28<Ammler>the script works only for the real base sets
21:28<_Ben_>Ammler: Is that just for grf's?
21:28<_Ben_>ah ok
21:29<Ammler>trg?r.grf
21:29<Ammler>openttdw.grf sprites aren't constant, you know?
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21:29<_Ben_>ah ok, I didn't realise that was a newgrf. I just can an extracted tar here
21:29<_Ben_>Ammler: as in the sprite numbers change?
21:29<Ammler>yes
21:30<_Ben_>on what time frame, by who? (in game/dev's/etc?)
21:30<Ammler>that is why you should at least for that make your own newgrf :-)
21:30<_Ben_>I was awaire they changed, but know little more than that on it
21:31<Ammler>well, I don't know how openttdw.grf changes, but it can
21:31<Ammler>i.e. it would need a simple pseudo sprite change in the requirement checking
21:32<Ammler>which is on the head of the grf and so would change every sprite
21:32<SpComb^>hrmph, the vm does the same LogonUI.exe trick after a reboot + chkdisk
21:32<SpComb^>somehow I suspect that VirtualBox's host-system-out-of-disk-space handler isn't as good as it appears to be
21:33<_Ben_>hmm well all I'm trying to do now is tweak/replace some 32bpp FZ sprites and I wish to test them. But I'm asking these questions becuase I'm just remaking them in relation to the 32bpp FZ sprites which were done before and appear on yoru script/search. If I make them exactly like that then many will be clones of each other. I don't want to do this and find they are different, and that was a fault with the first FZ set.
21:33<Ammler>if you want, I can "generate" such a newgrf for you as example...
21:34<_Ben_>I know absoultly nothing about making a newgrf, if you could help that would be great
21:34<Ammler>I would just use a empty.pcx
21:34<_Ben_>I really need to sleep now though, gotta be up in a few hours. I'll takle this one later on
21:34<Ammler>or opengfx sprites, dunno whats better?
21:35<Ammler>oh majonaise, I should too
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21:35<_Ben_>thanks for the help Ammler and Yexo
21:35<_Ben_>night
21:36<Ammler>pm me a tar and I could modify it so it would work independent from base set...
21:37<_Ben_>actually before I go, Ammler: where is that search script looking? For the faces there are the 8bpp varients, but not the 32bpp, where as for the embankments it has both
21:37<Ammler>well, I once loaded the 32bpp mega pack
21:38<_Ben_>Ammler: a 32bpp fullzoom tar of any sprites? in the sprites/trg1r folder (inside the tar)?
21:38<Ammler>that was as around 8 months ago
21:38<_Ben_>strange, I made the first set of faces 2 years ago
21:38<Ammler>possible yes
21:39<Ammler>I just took the pack, dunno, if your faces were there
21:40<Ammler>just looked for some 32bpp graphcis, we were able to use for opengfx
21:40<_Ben_>I've sent you a file, it's sprites from trg1r. I'm a little puzzled on exactly what needs doing, but I really should go...hope that file's ok
21:41<Ammler>well, I won't do it now either
21:41<Ammler>good night from my side too :-)
21:41<_Ben_>heh, sure, when ever you wish
21:41<_Ben_>night
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22:00<luckz>does anybody feel like explaining to me how to build a reasonably effective two-way PBS four lane rail track? I'm really confused in how far I should minimise or maximise a) signals b) lane-switching crossings
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22:04<SpComb^>luckz: fast lanes on the inside, slow lanes on the outside, with sideline merges
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22:19<luckz>aaaaaaaaaand, are there any vehicle sets that border on being balanced? dbset for example allows me to choose between pretty okay trains for 50k and slightly better ones for 500k, and one day the 50k ones disappear and thus anybody who didn't stock up on like 300 cheap train is sure at quite a disadvantage :P
22:21<luckz>SpComb^: I more meant what kind of signalling pattern to use (with PBS, I guess?) to maximise throughput and efficiency if I'm just going from A to B and back or from A to B and then C, without anything like different main or side lines.
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 23 00:00:51 2010