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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-23

---Logopened Sat Jan 23 00:00:51 2010
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03:04<Terkhen>good morning
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03:39<andythenorth>morning
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06:04<TrueBrain>hi all; we have been working on a new way to collect stats for downloads and MP usage. Our current draft: http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/stats.txt . Any of you any additions / suggestions?
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06:13<Alberth>TrueBrain: size of the data?
06:14<TrueBrain>size of what data?
06:14<roboboy>gnight
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06:16<Alberth>eg of a binary such as 0.7.0 I know it is static information, but it may be useful to store rather than having it to query the file system.
06:16<TrueBrain>why is it important to know the size of such downloads, for statistics?
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06:16<TrueBrain>personally, I want to know how often they were downloaded .. but does the size matter? (truly wondering here)
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06:17<Xaroth>so you can geusstimate the amount of data traffic?
06:17<TrueBrain>we only want to know that for mirrors, which is tracked
06:17<@peter1138>My traffic looks sane now :D
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06:18<@peter1138>Just 1.33 mbit/s
06:18<SpComb^>TrueBrain: 'tis called rrd
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06:19<Alberth>#downloads * #size = #MB downloaded afaik. Download count in itself doesn't say much what the largest piece of network traffic causes.
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06:19<SpComb^>TrueBrain: you don't store daily/monthly stats in an SQL RDBMS
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06:20<Alberth>not sure why you want hourly collections
06:20<TrueBrain>Alberth: remember we don't care here how much network traffic there is; we want to know how often something is downloaded, like http://www.openttd.org/stats now provides
06:20<@peter1138>rrd is difficutlt to alter
06:20<G>hey, nice job on 1.0.0-b3!
06:20<G>(getting it out that is)
06:20<TrueBrain>rrd is a stupid suggestion for how we want to use it :)
06:20-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
06:21<G>I got a feeling that http://www.openttd.org/en/download-testing/1.0.0-beta3 is broken though :)
06:21<TrueBrain>Alberth: in more detail, we want to show how many downloads there are in the middle of the night, for example
06:21<@peter1138>broken how?
06:22<G>peter1138: django rendering exception
06:22<@peter1138>works here
06:22<SpComb^>hmm, you're getting pretty close to a million downloads in those stats
06:22<TrueBrain>G: that was for 5 seconds the case :p
06:22<Alberth>ok, but the next time we run into trouble, we are going to guess what download causes it?
06:22<TrueBrain>Alberth: we never had that issue, did we?
06:22<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: it still doesn't work
06:22<@Rubidium>(the website that is)
06:22<TrueBrain>now it does ;)
06:22<SpComb^>and haha @ the cargodest downloads
06:22<G>TrueBrain: now I just get Bad Gateway :)
06:22<TrueBrain>lighttpd had to be rolled over again :)
06:22<G>haha
06:23<G>now it works... :)
06:23<TrueBrain>I had to deploy a newer version of the website :)
06:23<@peter1138>TrueBrain, when are we writing our own website? ;)
06:23<@peter1138>errr
06:23<@peter1138>TrueBrain, when are we writing our own webserver? ;)
06:23<TrueBrain>peter1138: I already did
06:23<TrueBrain>binaries.openttd.org runs a completely custom httpd
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06:24<TrueBrain>Alberth: also, by the amount of downloads we can guess the bandwidth used ;) It is not that I don't want to add a bandwidth field there, I was just wondering if it would be used :)
06:25<TrueBrain>(and the fact we don't have the bandwidth currently in the stats, so I can't harvest it :p)
06:25<@Rubidium>bandwidth in the current download stats can 'easily' be added :)
06:26<TrueBrain>we can take the average binary size and recalculate the current values, yes
06:26<@Rubidium>just multiply #files * #size-of-file
06:26<@Rubidium>after all, the database contains the information on a per-file basis IIRC
06:26<TrueBrain>of many nightlies we no longer have the file size :)
06:26<Alberth>that was my suggestion :)
06:27<@Rubidium>hmm, true... then guess those :)
06:27<TrueBrain>k
06:27<TrueBrain>Alberth: I am just trying to figure out the usage of the suggestion :) Our current stats tables running over the 150 MB .. I try to minimize that ;)
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06:28<TrueBrain>k, bandwidth added to all fields :)
06:28<TrueBrain>anything else?
06:28<@Rubidium>lunch!
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06:28<SpComb^>TrueBrain: RRD would be a lot less than 150MB :(
06:28<TrueBrain>enjoy
06:29<TrueBrain>SpComb^: and I say it again: with rrd you can't do what we want to do
06:29<TrueBrain>so it is not an option
06:29<@Rubidium>SpComb^: how would rdd store less information and still keep the information?
06:29<TrueBrain>(and our rrd dir of our ISP goes WAY passed 150MB ...)
06:29<SpComb^>Rubidium: average out the older info
06:29<SpComb^>plus it's fixed-size
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm... anyone ever tried exporting bookmarks from one konqueror to another?
06:30<Eddi|zuHause>it Doesn't Work (tm)
06:30<@Rubidium>SpComb^: so you lose 'resolution' in your stats...
06:30<@peter1138>rrd is perfect for bandwidth graphics
06:30<@peter1138>-ic
06:30<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I had that problem with konqueror itself already :p
06:31<TrueBrain>it is only useful if you want to show something linear in time, bandwidth, uptime, ..
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>well, the exporting works fine, just the importing...
06:31<TrueBrain>not if you want hourly graphics and stuff
06:31*peter1138 wonders if he just overused 'why'
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06:33<TrueBrain>also, SpComb^ , it would mean we have to create a new rrd for each version, for each platform, ... I think we go way passed the 150 MB :p
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06:35<Xaroth>TrueBrain: downtime is over again :P
06:35<TrueBrain>that was fast
06:35<Xaroth>weekend dt always fast
06:35<TrueBrain>good
06:35<TrueBrain>still, I have to go shopping first to get a lunch in my house ...
06:36<TrueBrain>and dinner, for that matter
06:36<Xaroth>same here, but waiting for my dad to crawl from under his rock again
06:36<@peter1138>and i still need ipv6 images for 7200VXR :s
06:37*TrueBrain gives peter1138 his images
06:37<@peter1138><obvious joke/>
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06:49<lennard>TrueBrain: just make sure to keep all logs for post-processing :P
06:50<SpComb^>RRD isn't perfect for everything, but some things are very suitable - such as masterserver stats
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06:51<SpComb^>you can keep per-five-minute-stats for a couple days, per-hour stats for a month or two, per-day stats for a year or two
06:51<SpComb^>etc.
06:52<@Rubidium>but per day stats means you can't make a 'per hour' graph over the whole period
06:52<@Rubidium>see e.g. http://rbijker.net/openttd/stats.pdf
06:52<@Rubidium>page 3
06:53<SpComb^>well, then you can store per-hour stats for a year or two
06:55<SpComb^>but myes, if you want complex analysis them storing each item separately and aggregating them at analysis time has some benefits... but it's also a lot more data
06:56<@Rubidium>that's why we want to redo the storage a bit so the only store what's needed for the purposes we want
06:56<@Rubidium>should reduce the download stats database by a factor 10 to 20
06:56<SpComb^>then you're heading towards what RRD does
06:56<@Rubidium>which is, for 18 months, 1 million downloads, a whopping 7 MB :)
06:57<SpComb^>five years of hourly RRD data at 32-bit res is a whooping ~170KB
06:57<@Rubidium>which is in all fairness for download stats per file per hour a reasonable amount of space I'd say
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>i'm amazed at what a simple "1" in the version number does...
06:59<@Rubidium>yeah, kinda spikes doesn't it?
06:59<@Rubidium>way more than 0.7.0 ever did
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07:00<SpComb^>but point being, RRD is useable for more than just MRTG and bandwidth stats that nobody ever looks at :P
07:00<SpComb^>plus rrd_tool's graph output is relatively nice and flexible
07:00<SpComb^>(smokeping's graphs are from it, believe it or not)
07:04<@Rubidium>SpComb^: but... now make those graphs for *each* binary of OpenTTD (that's basically what we store)
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07:04<@peter1138>including nightlies :D
07:04<SpComb^>you could store daily data for each binary, and then hourly data in aggregate for all of them
07:04<SpComb^>but yes, once you start having O(N) RRD's it does get a little unweidly
07:04<@Rubidium>that'd be 1000 versions (yes nightlies are included) and about 10 targets
07:05<@Rubidium>so 170 KiB * 1000 * 10 / 5 * 1.5
07:05<@Rubidium>@calc 170 * 1000 * 10 / 5 * 1.5 / 1024
07:05<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 498.046875
07:05<SpComb^>you could store nightlies as just one set of data...
07:05<@Rubidium>500 MiB, we have 7 :)
07:06<SpComb^>(it's also a question of how much data about something you really need)
07:06<TrueBrain>what a useless discussion ...
07:07<SpComb^>just trying to say that RRD's aren't useless, they do a very good job of aggregating data if you know what you want to aggregate beforehand
07:07<Alberth>SpComb^: that is already decided. Please show us you can do better with the same data set
07:08<SpComb^>no need
07:08<Alberth>SpComb^: nobody says RRD is useless, it is just not right in this case
07:08<TrueBrain>SpComb^: nobody said rrds (not rrd's) are useless; just useless for the intention we have with our data
07:08<TrueBrain>hihi @ Alberth :)
07:08<TrueBrain>every tool for its own domain
07:10<TrueBrain>oeh, lennard is here, good, I have another question for him :)
07:11<@orudge>woo, 7 OS/2 downloads this week already
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07:11<@orudge>that's, like, one a day
07:11<TrueBrain>orudge: does OS/2 still work?!
07:11<@orudge>my OS/2 VM still seems to work on VMWare on my Mac, which is good
07:11<@orudge>TrueBrain: I need to fix trunk
07:11<@orudge>or, well
07:11<@orudge>OS/2 knows nothing about IPv6, at all
07:11<@orudge>even the headers don't know of it
07:11<@orudge>which causes problems trying to build OpenTTD :)
07:12<@orudge>if one disables networking, it's all fine
07:12<TrueBrain>time to make an #ifdef IPV6_SUPPORT :p
07:12<@orudge>or indeed, hacks out all the IPv6 stuff
07:12<@orudge>IPv4 is fine, of course
07:12<@orudge>but anyway, I have a hack that sorts it all out, but a hack isn't really good enough
07:12<@orudge>so I shall look at it again
07:13<TrueBrain>still .. I am amazed OS/2 is still there :p
07:13<TrueBrain>btw, back in UK?
07:13<@orudge>heh
07:13<@orudge>yes, indeed
07:13<@orudge>since yesterday
07:14<TrueBrain>sucky weather, aint it ;)
07:14<@Rubidium>orudge: take a look at the mingw hack in core/os_abstraction.h
07:14<@orudge>until probably April
07:14<@peter1138>hmm, so how do i do nat with ipv6... ;)
07:14<@orudge>TrueBrain: actually, the sun came out
07:14<@orudge>but yes, I came back yesterday and it was pouring with rain
07:14<@orudge>that, and they left my bags in London
07:14<@orudge>a good welcome home ;)
07:14<TrueBrain>:s
07:14<@Rubidium>peter1138: you don't
07:14<lennard>peter1138: you don't
07:15<TrueBrain>the beauty of IPv6 :)
07:16<@peter1138>i know that you don't
07:16<@peter1138>but i need to
07:17<lennard>I doubt that
07:18<@peter1138>[PCI-DSS] 1.3.8 Implement IP masquerading to prevent internal addresses from being translated and revealed on the Internet, using RFC 1918 address space. Use network address translation (NAT) technologies—for example, port address translation (PAT).
07:18<@peter1138>1.3.8 For the sample of firewall and router components, verify that NAT or other technology using RFC 1918 address space is used to restrict broadcast of IP addresses from the internal network to the Internet (IP masquerading).
07:18<@peter1138>(yes, PCI-DSS is fucking stupid)
07:18<lennard>ugh, PCI-DSS is retarded?
07:18<lennard>I do, however, see your problem :)
07:19<lennard>cant you just argue 'I don't use RFC1918 space' though?
07:19<lennard>and 'I don't use internal addresses'
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07:20<lennard>what do you need PCI-DSS for anyway? :)
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07:22<@peter1138>well no, using real-world addresses wouldn't meet the requirements
07:24<lennard>but rfc1918 only has v4 addresses, and ipv6 only has global addresses
07:24<lennard>you don't have to route them in order for them to be global :P
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07:29<@Rubidium>peter1138: that's simple then, IPv6 is forbidden by PCI-DSS
07:33<@peter1138>probably :)
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07:50<Eddi|zuHause>cool someone needed backups of files from 2003, and i had them! ;)
07:51<@peter1138>how rare
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08:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18893 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Replace grf_load_* with methods of ByteReader.
08:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r18894 /extra/website/bananas/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [Website] -Add: support for OBM (Base Music Sets)
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08:39<Nite_Owl>Hello all
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08:39<Eddi|zuHause>so is it now bananamas? :p
08:40<@Rubidium>more brananas
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>r?
08:40<@Rubidium>base replacements
08:42<fonsinchen>bahamas
08:43<Nite_Owl>Bananarama
08:43<fonsinchen>with h := nana
08:44<Nite_Owl>I am probably the only one here who remembers Bananarama
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>i only know the name...
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: that would yield "bahmas"
08:48<Nite_Owl>late 70's early 80's New Wave
08:48-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFADAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:49<Nite_Owl>'I Like Candy' was a big hit for them
08:49<fonsinchen>so h = NAN
08:50<fonsinchen>this is better anyway
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08:58<Nite_Owl>My bad 'I Want Candy' was by a band called Bow Wow Wow
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09:24<@orudge>How curious, nginx up 384% in 2009, lighttpd down 72% according to http://royal.pingdom.com/2010/01/22/internet-2009-in-numbers/
09:24*orudge never used nginx, but perhaps because it looked rather unfinished when he first came across it
09:24*lennard uses it
09:25*orudge uses lighttpd
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09:25*Xaroth apache
09:25<ashb>http://news.netcraft.com/
09:25<Xaroth>though I don't mind using lighttpd now that I know how it works :P
09:25*lennard had lighttpd be nice and segfaulty
09:25<ashb>for the original source :)
09:26<ashb>orudge: where did they get those numbers
09:26<@orudge>Netcraft
09:26<@orudge>according to the bit at the bottom
09:26<@Rubidium>well, lighty devs are also nice and ignorant about memory leaks killing lighty
09:26<@orudge>well, I figured you'd had some experience of both, hence partially me posting that link in this channel ;)
09:26<ashb>oh the sumary pageso nly have month-on-month numbers
09:27<ashb>i guess they must subscribe
09:27*ashb has experience of the netcraft survey
09:27<ashb>i used to run the horrible thing
09:27<ashb>worst. code. ever.
09:29*orudge gets some lunch
09:31<@Rubidium>orudge: I suggest to not use lighttpd if you want it to 'proxy' to something
09:32<ashb>i've never had any problems with it
09:32<ashb>doing just that
09:33<@peter1138>we have ;p
09:34<ashb>how did it manifest itself - memory leaks?
09:34<ashb>(so i can keep an eye out to see if it happens)
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>the memory usage grows and grows until the oom-killer comes along
09:35<ashb>k never had anything approaching that. good to know tho.
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>if oom-killer is not set up, it just makes the system completely unresponsive
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09:42<TrueBrain>lennard had lighttpd be nice and segfaulty <- we had the exact same problems :) Running nginx, with lighttpd and apache2 as back-end (proxied)
09:42<@Rubidium>ashb: http://redmine.lighttpd.net/issues/1283
09:42<ashb>Rubidium: thanks
09:42<@Rubidium>and that's where the developer basically says: don't use lighty
09:44<ashb>oh wow. thats as bad as nginx used to be (only docs in russian etc)
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09:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: truebrain * r18895 /extra/website/bananas/views.py: [Website] -Fix: OpenTTD runs the MD5 XOR twice if the same filename is twice in the list; now BaNaNaS does too
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09:54<[Jako]>where i can find files for running server?
09:54<Xaroth>the wikik
09:54<lennard>TrueBrain: oh this lighty was just a static content service thingyh
09:54<Xaroth>s/wikik/wiki/
09:54<KenjiE20>witwiki?
09:54<TrueBrain>lennard: well, it leaks anyway ;)
09:55<TrueBrain>[Jako]: download the client; it includes the server code
09:55<TrueBrain>(both dedicated as non-dedicated)
09:55<ashb>not for just static content it does.
09:55<[Jako]>i prefer dedicated ;)
09:55<[Jako]>found it
09:55<ashb>please dont spread incorrect FUD
09:55<ashb>*doesn't
09:56<Xaroth>ashb: what incorrect FUD?
09:56<ashb>that it leaks anyway
09:56<Xaroth>what's incorrect about that?
09:56<ashb>(it = lighttpd)
09:56<lennard>I think that might actually be FUD
09:56<+glx><TrueBrain> (both dedicated as non-dedicated) <-- but IIRC our builds require X even for dedicated
09:56<TrueBrain>it does, sorry, but it really does; several test-cases, several ways of doing
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>it leaked for our use case... whether you like it or not
09:56<ashb>oh yes i'm not arguing that
09:56<lennard>I've run lighty for months, and while it kept segfaulting childs under load, I don't remember it ever leaking
09:57<ashb>i'm arguing that it leaks if you just do static files and no cgi or proxy
09:57<TrueBrain>we had to switch to 1.5 to avoid certain type of memory leaks
09:57<TrueBrain>while 1.5 is not really suported
09:58<TrueBrain>peter1138: ping
09:58<Xaroth>destination host unreachable.
09:58<@peter1138>pong
09:58<TrueBrain>I can't get an ssh to your mirror :(
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09:59<TrueBrain>connection gets refused :(
10:00<@peter1138>back
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10:01<TrueBrain>whiiee :)
10:01<TrueBrain>syncing new files
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10:01<TrueBrain>@openttd commit
10:01<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by truebrain :: r18895 extra/website/bananas/views.py (2010-01-23 14:46:42 UTC)
10:01<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [Website] -Fix: OpenTTD runs the MD5 XOR twice if the same filename is twice in the list; now BaNaNaS does too
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10:10<Hirundo>Does MinGW/MSYS need other versions of libpng/zlib etc, or do the libs I use with MSVC suffice?
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>try it?
10:15<Hirundo>I prefer to check whether the wheel has already been invented before re-inventing it, although I may have to resort to the latter in this case
10:17<ashb>istr that msvc implibs are different format to gcc's one
10:17<ashb>but if they are dlls, i think gcc can use them directly without an implib
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10:24<Eddi|zuHause>Hirundo: if you're afraid of inventing the wheel, why not stick exactly to the instructions?
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10:25<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: because it is so much more fun to try some other things first and then ask us why it doesn't work
10:27<TrueBrain>stupid Mass Effect 2, didn't save my game :(
10:28*Eoin has ME2 :D
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10:30<TrueBrain>I like how it integrates your story from ME1 :)
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10:32<[Jako]>whoa, got it up from command shell
10:32<[Jako]>thx for the opensfx and gfx packs :)
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10:36<[Jako]>don't know why it needs gfx pack to run it in dedicated mode (-D) but it's not a big problem
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>in the gfx pack there are sprites which contain non-displayable data, for example the original world generator has some heightmaps in there
10:37<Ammler>e.g. it needs the map generation sprites
10:38<@Rubidium>because dedicated mode is exactly the same as non-dedicated mode with only a different video driver; the rest is still the same, i.e. the binary can make screenshots and the like
10:38<Ammler>I thought, that isn't possible anymore?
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10:39<@Rubidium>Ammler: override the 'default' blitter
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10:41<rait>AI crash in beta3, where should i report?
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>rait: the forum, "NoAI Discussion"
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10:42<rait>ok
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>rait: specifically in the thread mentioned in the AI description
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>rait: unless the crash says "you have no AI installed"
10:42<rait>that's not the case
10:43<planetmaker>yup, then every AI has its own thread which the authors monitor usually
10:44<rait>i need to register to post?
10:46<planetmaker>at tt-forums? Yes.
10:46<planetmaker>As usual...
10:46<planetmaker>is there anywhere a place where you can give feedback w/o registration?
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>i have seen a forum where unregistered people could post, a long time ago
10:47<@Rubidium>planetmaker: irc?
10:48<planetmaker>well, yes. I meant (implicitly) forums
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10:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18896 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3558]: pressing cancel for the query windows of the world generation window caused the default to be set instead of no changes to the value
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11:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm, is there a programatical interface that can tell a monitor to switch inputs?
11:12<@peter1138>not really
11:12<@peter1138>your best luck would be to make blank the screen you don't want with DPMS
11:12<@peter1138>-make
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't change input in my monitor
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>or i didn't find the "autoselect" setting
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11:33<@peter1138>just get more monitors
11:34<jonty-comp>one of my monitors has autodetect
11:34<fjb>Or send the new pc back.
11:34<jonty-comp>and the other one doesn't, despite it being the same model
11:38<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18897 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Land area information read the stationspec also for non-rail-stationtiles, which is no longer valid since r18876.
11:41<Eddi|zuHause><fjb> Or send the new pc back. <- i am seriously considering that, but that doesn't change the need for a new computer anyway
11:41<Alberth>run a remote X server at another desktop for the other machine :p
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11:42<fjb>EddizuHause: Buy a quieter one and a second monitor.
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: i need one where i can put my DVB card in
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>they advertised a PCI port on the mainboard, but that one is blocked by the graphics card cooler
11:43<fjb>Cheap micro ATX board...
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11:46<[Jako]>weird stuff
11:46<[Jako]>openttd -D allways overwrited my cfg file :S
11:46<[Jako]>fixed when i changed permissions of that file
11:47<@peter1138>or supply -x
11:48<[Jako]>why it acts like that
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>openttd always writes its config on exit
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>except you start it with -x
11:48<Muxy>pb with linkin - VC2005 - new ottdutils (v3) download and librairy path set. Pb with fontcache.obj. Seems to be freetype.. what can i check ?
11:49<[Jako]>yes but i think it should take cmnds from cfg and if nothing isn't changed
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>wha?
11:50<[Jako]>it should save the changed commands to the file
11:51<[Jako]>but now it puts all default
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>it shouldn't put anything to default...
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11:57<+glx>unless you changed difficulty settings in config without setting it to custom
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12:30<[Jako]>maybe i edited the file when the server was on! :(
12:30<[Jako]>so only pure failure from the user
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12:38<rait>why is it, when you hold on to the resize handle on the map window and draw circles with the mouse, window contents (like trains) move smoothly, but when you let go, it's all choppy?
12:40<rait>i assume every time window gets resized by a pixel, it get's redrawn. so why does it take like half a sec do redraw it normally?
12:41<rait>would it be a performance killer if it would do it twice as fast?
12:42<rait>does anyone actually understand what i'm talking about? :D
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>no.
12:43<rait>wicked
12:44<rait>okay
12:44<rait>i'll try to clarify
12:45<[Jako]>does anyone know what is the command for giant screenshot
12:45<[Jako]>for dedicated server
12:46<rait>open a map window and point it to some heavy traffic site. now hold down the resize button and resize it smoothly. you can see that trains and stuff move smoothly on their lines. but when you just keep a map open, they like jump from one place to another every once in a while
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>[Jako]: "help screenshot"?
12:47<rait>just constantly resize the map and you'll see
12:49<Alberth>because if you do nothing, the map is redrawn only every x ticks
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12:49<rait>can't it be decreased?
12:50<Alberth>static const uint8 FORCE_REFRESH_PERIOD = 0x1F; <-- sure, change this number and recompile
12:50<rait>in ... where?
12:51<Alberth>src/smallmap_gui.cpp
12:51<Alberth>but cpu time spent on smallmap rendering cannot be spend on moving trains, or other game updates.
12:52<Alberth>and if you run a big game, you need that time
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13:02<SpComb^>gathers: autosep fails badly for tram lines with congestion
13:02<SpComb^>well, short tram lines with congestion
13:08<gathers>symptoms?
13:09<ChoHag>I have openttd on my phone.
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>ask it to leave a number in case we need to call it back
13:11<ChoHag>I'm not sure if it
13:11<ChoHag>'s actually playable, but it works.
13:12<SpComb^>gathers: ten trams, three stops, maybe 10-15t in total
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>should be fine as long as you have more than 8MB ram...
13:12<SpComb^>gathers: wait times go up to 500 ticks (15 seconds), and the trams become really late
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13:13<gathers>only initially or does it get worse/better with time?
13:13<SpComb^>seems to stay like that
13:13<SpComb^>I'll turn it back on and see what happens again
13:14<SpComb^>it works admirably well in other places with less congestion, though
13:14<ChoHag>Oh it does, that's not what I was referring to.
13:15<ChoHag>But I have no mouse and a screen 3" wide.
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like my laptop in the late 90s ;)
13:16<lennard>question! is there any specific reason the 1.0.0-beta3 debian package isnt ubuntu-compatible? :)
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>lennard: libicu
13:17<lennard>yes, well, I can see that, but is that ubuntus 'fault' or the packagers? :)
13:17<+glx>stupid lib with hardcoded version in function names
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>it's libicu's fault
13:17<lennard>ah, right
13:18<lennard>ok then :)
13:18<@Rubidium>and Ubuntu not packaging the version that is in Debian :)
13:19<+glx>you can use the generic binary
13:19<lennard>I was planning to, thanks :)
13:20<ChoHag>There's a 1.0?
13:21<+glx>not yet
13:21<+glx>only 1.0.0-beta3
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13:26<ChoHag>Close enough.
13:27<SpComb^>whoever decided that drag-and-drop in the orders GUI was a good idea deserves to have their head chopped off
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13:28<gathers>SpComb^: are there too many vehicles for there to be any meaningful separation?
13:28<SpComb^>gathers: more or less
13:29<SpComb^>gathers: although it's fairing a lot better now that I've expanded the tram stops to two tiles
13:42<ChoHag>fareing
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18898 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: japanese - 16 changes by PouncingAnt
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 275 changes by BlinK_
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 7 changes by Zhygometh
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14:14<welshdragon>TrueBrain: I am having trouble committing the translation strings
14:15<welshdragon>(i'm uisng Chrome and Mac OSX 10.5.6)
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14:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18899 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: the default button was enabled even when the ENABLE_DEFAULT flag wasn't set
14:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18900 /trunk/src/window_gui.h: -Document: that an empty string for OnQueryTextFinished means 'use default'
14:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18901 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Change: make the default button work again for the world generation window; previously it worked due to the bug fixed in r18899. Do not add it again for the town custom number because there is no default for that one.
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14:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18902 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3559]: the default button for the advanced settings didn't work
14:33-!-KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
14:43<rait>anyone know how to create symlinks in windows?
14:43<rait>the thing is, i don't want to copy all data to my documents, but i'd like that all versions use the same set
14:46<SpComb^>rait: openttd will probably be able to find them if you dump them in some system-wide dir
14:47<planetmaker>section 4.2 in the readme...
14:47<planetmaker>often cited, seldom read
14:47<SpComb^>which reminds me, I should stop building symlink-farms and do that instead :)
14:47<SpComb^>d'oh
14:47<SpComb^>funny how you don't even think of something yourself until you tell it to someone else
14:50<rait>now that i have read it, i think it should be updated, as some windows version's dont have a "Documents and Settings" folder
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14:52<@Rubidium>rait: but calling it $CSIDL_PERSONAL might not be that useful :)
14:52<@Rubidium>or $CSIDL_COMMON_DOCUMENTS for that matter
14:53<+glx>it's "my docs" dir ;)
14:53<rait>hehe, dev joke. not getting it but i presume it holds some magic directory name
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14:56<@Rubidium>rait: it's how Microsoft calls the directory in its API
14:58-!-Eoin_ is now known as Eoin
14:59<rait>well, referencing to microsoft API in a readme.txt is not the way to go
15:00<@Rubidium>CSIDL_PERSONAL (FOLDERID_Documents)
15:00<@Rubidium>The file system directory used to physically store a user's common repository of documents. A typical path is C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents.
15:00<@Rubidium>from the API
15:01<@Rubidium>apparantly they messed with it since 6.0
15:02<rait>i dont neet to do any compiling just to edit a text file, right?
15:02<@Rubidium>i.e. for 6.0 it's "The virtual folder that represents the My Documents desktop item"
15:05<@Rubidium>no, you don't need to do any compiling
15:08*Rubidium likes it when people notify us something is wrong 3 years after it became wrong
15:08<@Rubidium>okay, I'm rounding up now (by 1 week)
15:10<rait>you're going to love when i say that i'm actually going to fix it :)
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15:11<+glx>for me it's C:\Users\<username>\Documents ;)
15:11<+glx>and of course Users and Documents are displayed translated
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15:35<rait>i assume that i don't have rights to just commit, i have to create a patch and submit it somewhere.
15:35<lennard>biff TrueBrain
15:36<rait>"biff"?
15:37<lennard>it means 'youve got mail', but in nerd-speak instead of aol-speak ;)
15:37-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFADAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
15:37<lennard>incidentally, biff was the name of a dog (that part is real) that supposedly barked at the mailman (not to true)
15:38<rait>right ......
15:39<Alberth>rait: after making a patch, submit to flyspray
15:39<rait>some magic "submit a patch!" button there or i'll need to submit it as bugfix?
15:40<Alberth>TB is not going to give you commit access
15:40<Alberth>there is a 'patch' category
15:41<Alberth>but bugfix is fine too
15:41<Alberth>hmm, and perhaps more appropriate here
15:41-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
15:45<rait>there is no "none of the above" category
15:47-!-phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd
15:49<Alberth>just set 'Type' to bug fix, and leave 'Category' to Core.
15:49<Alberth>not entirely correct, but the best available, it seems
15:49<@Rubidium>what's the first part of the diff about?
15:50<@Rubidium>or is that your editor that added a BOM
15:50-!-Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-201-188-5.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
15:51<rait>i just added 2 lines, everything other is not my doing
15:51<@Rubidium>also C:\Users folder\<username>\Documents\OpenTTD (did they really add the " folder" part?)
15:51<rait>oh dang, my bad
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15:52<rait>it's c:\users\<username> to be clear
15:53<@Rubidium>yup, the first part is the BOM
15:53<andythenorth>frosch123: small nfo puzzle
15:53<andythenorth>http://paste.openttd.org/221005
15:53<andythenorth>first varaction produces no warning. second varaction produces warning
15:53<andythenorth>why?
15:53<andythenorth>:)
15:56<@Rubidium>rait: wouldn't http://rbijker.net/openttd/prop.diff be clearer?
15:56<@Rubidium>because experience has shown that people skip the notes quite frequently
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15:57<rait>actually, it's Public, not All Users nowadays
15:59<+glx>I have both
15:59<@Rubidium>okay, new version; that's correct?
16:01<rait>xp All Users have Shared Documents subdir
16:01<rait>not just Documents
16:01<frosch123>andythenorth: no idea, ask dalestan :)
16:01<@Rubidium>hmm, does 2000 have an all users?
16:01<@Rubidium>9x probably doesn't have it, right?
16:01<Sacro>iirc yes it does
16:02<Sacro>9x errm
16:02<Sacro>I don't recall
16:02<rait>did 9x even have user accounds? :D
16:02<Sacro>wasn it just c:\my documents\
16:02<Sacro>rait: yes it did
16:02<Sacro>but I don't recall how it did seperate home folders
16:02<+glx>but only for network
16:02<rait>c:\my documents\ rings a bell
16:02<+glx>and ESC allowed to log on the machine anyway ;à
16:02<rait>oh yes, the magical 9x domain ...
16:02<@peter1138>Sacro, it copied them around on login, iirc
16:03<@peter1138>or maybe it was an internal symlink type affair
16:03<frosch123>1A 20 \d00 // create 0 <- andythenorth: does it also happen if you put another constant there? i.e. maybe nforenum detects that the result is always zero
16:03<@Rubidium>The file system directory that contains documents that are common to all users. A typical paths is C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents. Valid for Windows NT systems and Windows 95 and Windows 98 systems with Shfolder.dll installed.
16:03<@Rubidium>so yes, 95 and 98 could have that directory too
16:04<Sacro>course they *could*
16:04<Sacro>but I don't recall them having that
16:04<rait>i can't either
16:04<@Rubidium>well, MS says it's valid for win95/8
16:04<+glx>shfolder.dll came with IE5 IIRC
16:04<@Rubidium>only it doesn't tell the actual value
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16:06<rait>has anyone verifyed that openttd is actually playable on 9x?
16:08<andythenorth>frosch123: I think you're correct
16:08<andythenorth>frosch123: yup, correct
16:09<rait>curiosity is dangerous: i'm going to fire up my old 98 installation disk just to find out :D
16:10-!-lewymati [~lewymati@aejj189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10<+glx>rait: it is playable :)
16:10<+glx>I checked my latest change in my win98 VM :)
16:11<rait>did you feel ... 10 years younger? :D
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16:11<@Rubidium>glx: can you check what the CSIDL_PERSONAL resolves to in win98?
16:12<+glx>I have grf in my docs and openttd runs
16:13<@Rubidium>so http://rbijker.net/openttd/prop.diff is right?
16:14<+glx>yes
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16:14<rait>should be
16:15<+glx>all users\documents exists on 7 too (but it's not accessible via explorer ;) )
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16:17<TrueBrain>lennard: whoho! Will give the mirror its first sync in a moment .. need to finish my Mass Effect 2 mission first
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16:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18903 /trunk/readme.txt: -Fix [FS#3562]: file locations for Windows weren't correct for all versions of Windows
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16:21<planetmaker>:-D I just dug through an old disk. I found out I obviously played already OpenTTD 0.4.0 ... must have forgotten it for a time then ;-)
16:21<planetmaker>and re-discovered it in the 0.5.3 / 0.6.0 time
16:23<frosch123>ah, a planetmaker, got a question for you
16:23*planetmaker plays oracle of Delphi
16:24<planetmaker>well, yes? :-)
16:24<frosch123>how are sprites/source/ToyFactory1.png and sprites/pcx/industries/toyfactory/ToyFactory1.pcx related to each other?
16:24<frosch123>are they just the same
16:25<planetmaker>uhm... let me check
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16:29<planetmaker>They look the same. But the png is RGB, not in the correct palette.
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16:30<planetmaker>btw, other question: you once wanted to publish some tool. I don't quite recall what, but I recall that it was helpful ;-)
16:30<planetmaker>what came of it?
16:30<frosch123>he, so assuming i changed the pcx, by adding some transparent blue at the top, how would i have to change the png
16:31<planetmaker>he... I'd just change the pcx and not worry about the png
16:31<frosch123>well, i guess the tool needs about one day of work which i have been pushing for 3 weeks or so
16:31<frosch123>but i added .pcx loading, which needs only 3 seconds for trg1 on my old machine
16:32<frosch123>(which i consider fast enough for a java application)
16:32<planetmaker>that indeed sounds fast enough
16:33<planetmaker>if you want to change the png, though, change it the same way as the pcx: maintain the colour and take the background. But... what for would you want to change the png?
16:33<planetmaker>(except if you add png import / export to grfcodec)
16:33<frosch123>actually i wanted to do it today, but then i decided to play ogfx toyland during afternoon, and then i decided to fix some glitches in ogfx... :p
16:34<planetmaker>:-P
16:35<planetmaker>but as long as you had fun, that's what counts :-)
16:35<planetmaker>btw: I pushed your 59E/F comment change also to opengfx ;-)
16:36<TrueBrain>lennard: as requested, do you have latitude / longitude coordinated of the location of the server?
16:36<lennard>oh, right
16:37<frosch123>so, i can do the "church cream"-joke again?
16:37<lennard>52.239995,6.853752
16:38<lennard>somewhere around there
16:38<TrueBrain>k, thank you
16:38<planetmaker>church cream joke?
16:38<planetmaker>doesn't ring a bell right now...
16:39<TrueBrain>I have no idea why, but my connection to the server is slowish :p
16:43<TrueBrain>pfff, syncing 30GB takes for ever :(
16:43<TrueBrain>@calc 30 * 1024 / 10
16:43<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 3072
16:43<@Rubidium>lennard: that makes me wonder... are the servers in Seinhuis or in Teehuis
16:43<TrueBrain>at max speed it will take close to an hour .. lol
16:44<lennard>what, don't you recognize it? :P
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16:45<@Rubidium>lennard: it's http://www.snt.utwente.nl/gallery/index.php?album=snt-lustrum-esenteehuis that makes me wonder
16:45<lennard>ah
16:45<lennard>these ones are in seinhuis
16:45<@Rubidium>I know they have been in Seinhuis
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16:52<andythenorth>industry window texts...processing industry. Delivering cargo 1 causes 'efficiency' of processing cargos 2 and 3 to increase. Which is better:
16:53<andythenorth>"Efficiency: 50%" | "Efficiency: 100%" or
16:53<andythenorth>"Efficiency: low" | "Efficiency: high"
16:53<andythenorth>??
16:54<frosch123>if 50% and 100% are the only possible values, they look silly, and i prefer "words"
16:54<andythenorth>I agree
16:55<andythenorth>Also, some people will argue that efficiency can never be '100%'. Those people are not people I want to spend time talking to :P
16:55<Alberth>numbers also indicate a precise value
16:55<TrueBrain>lennard / Rubidium: just to confirm I am not going crazy: when the rsync is done and I reset the balancer, there is a NL mirror. It redirects binaries.openttd.org to nl.binaries.openttd.org. All calls to nl.binaries.openttd.org are given a 307 (or 301 for NSIS) to ftp.snt.utwente.nl (with correct paths and stuff). Correct, right? (and within all the rules)
16:55<planetmaker>andythenorth: but those people are right :-P
16:55<lennard>TrueBrain: sound good to me anyway :)
16:56<planetmaker>but only if speaking in closed thermodynamic processes ;-)
16:57<@Rubidium>shouldn't binaries.openttd.org redirect directly to snt? Saves processing power at the server and such
16:57<andythenorth>planetmaker: in this case they are also right, as at '100%', 8 units cargo in will equal 8 units cargo out....
16:57<@Rubidium>and then have nl.binaries.openttd.org redirect to snt too
16:57<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and that is why you guys are here ;)
16:57<TrueBrain>btw, 90 mbit/s ;)
16:57<planetmaker>andythenorth: I just define my output units to be much smaller ;-) but way more voluminous. So... even 8->16 is arguably acceptable
16:58-!-heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer]
16:58<planetmaker>s/smaller/lighter/
16:59<TrueBrain>Rubidium: okay, so now any <country>.binaries.openttd.org given to the balancer, is being redirected to its mirror url. If that is <country>.binaries.openttd.org, an infinite loop is created (aborted at some time by the browser)
16:59-!-Phalax [~kvirc@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:00<lennard>why any? its just nl thats special ;)
17:00<TrueBrain>the balancer doesn't care :)
17:00<TrueBrain>I write general things, not specific :)
17:01<TrueBrain>it is up to the proxy httpd to redirect to the correct httpd :)
17:01<TrueBrain>if he sends it to the balancer, he redirects (as that is all he knows/does)
17:01<@Rubidium>hmm, that reminds me of "General Specific"
17:01<TrueBrain>and I salute you
17:01<TrueBrain>(too much How I met your mother)
17:03<TrueBrain>lennard: and no illusions, I am sure more mirrors will join with the same policy :)
17:04<@Rubidium>where's the fast forward in TTD?
17:04<TrueBrain>why are you requesting a kick?
17:04<@Rubidium>because I then have a reason not to show my face in here for a few weeks :)
17:05<TrueBrain>ah; you are excused either way .. go fix your PC problems :)
17:06<planetmaker>trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void GameSettingsWindow::OnQueryTextFinished(char*)’: /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp:1676: error: cast from ‘const void*’ to ‘int32’ loses precision
17:06<@Rubidium>I'm at it at the moment... just need another <lots of hours> to wait till some 'engineer' calls me to make an appointment
17:06<TrueBrain>which might or might not fix the problems .. yeah ...
17:06<planetmaker>in r18903
17:06<TrueBrain>Rubidium: check leaseweb graphs :)
17:07<frosch123>planetmaker: add a (size_t) after the first cast
17:07<@Rubidium>itsybitsy spiky?
17:07<+glx>planetmaker: you're late for this one ;)
17:07<planetmaker>uh? I just pulled?
17:08<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/getgraph.asp.png <- doesn't happen often I am not afraid by such spike
17:08<frosch123>well, noone committed the fix
17:08<+glx>peter.1138 reported it 1 hour ago
17:09<planetmaker>eh... It's a fatal compile error here ;-)
17:09<@peter1138>and here
17:09<@Rubidium>tss... you should use a 32 bits system then! :)
17:10<@peter1138>tss... pointer mangling
17:10<Terkhen>good night
17:10-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@11.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
17:11<lennard>TrueBrain: also, I still have to take care of the index sorting thing
17:11<TrueBrain>would be nice if you can fix it; too bad if you can't
17:11<lennard>is very doable, so I'll get to it tomorrow
17:11<TrueBrain>:)
17:11<TrueBrain>you shouldn't be 'working' on a sunday
17:12<lennard>this is hobby :P
17:12<lennard>although remarkably like work
17:12<lennard>then again, work is part-time
17:12<lennard>so I'll live
17:12<TrueBrain>I don't know .. not at all ...
17:12<TrueBrain>+that
17:13<+glx>msvc (x64) has no problems with that
17:13<TrueBrain>whoho, it already is at '2' of the nightlies
17:13<planetmaker>gcc 4.2 here
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17:21<TrueBrain>why do we have so many releases .. pff :p
17:22<Alberth>Fake a 'HD accident' where we loose some of the less interesting releases :p
17:22<TrueBrain>hard to do, with all those mirrors around :p
17:22<TrueBrain>even the SVN is at 3 locations ...
17:23<Alberth>not to mention all the hg and git clones of people at home
17:23-!-Bluelight [~Ivan@170.80-203-76.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:23<TrueBrain>and if one HD crashes, the other needs to crash too ...
17:23-!-Bluelight [~Ivan@170.80-203-76.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
17:23<@peter1138>is svn being slow or is it my connection? :s
17:23<TrueBrain>peter1138: we are pushing a mirror at 93 mbit/s :p
17:23<TrueBrain>almost done
17:24<@peter1138>ah
17:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r18904 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix: Writing LZO-compressed savegames would produce invalid files and potentially overwrite memory.
17:24<TrueBrain>there
17:24<TrueBrain>lennard: why does your dirlisting list the 'create' date instead of the 'last modified' date?
17:25<lennard>if only I knew :)
17:25<TrueBrain>we take good care of our binaries, and date them correctly (last modified) to when they were released
17:25<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18905 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18902): Compile error on 64-bit with gcc
17:25<TrueBrain>but now all dates are set to the create date .. which is not something we can control really
17:25<lennard>well, I do know to some extent: the code says inode->ctim :P
17:25<TrueBrain>make it mtim!
17:25<TrueBrain>much saner :p
17:26<@peter1138>just hack the file system
17:26<TrueBrain>k, going to fiddle a bit with the balancer, expect trouble accessing binaries.openttd.org
17:26<planetmaker>ty, peter1138
17:28<@Rubidium>2.33547762036e-05
17:28<@Rubidium>awfully precise for GBs
17:29<@Rubidium>partial bits? Do they exist?
17:29-!-kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:29<lennard>Rubidium: talking to anyone in particular?
17:29<@peter1138>imprecisely precise?
17:29-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@73.69.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
17:29<@Rubidium>lennard: yeah, to myself :)
17:30<TrueBrain>and to my stats, I can only assume :p
17:30<lennard>carry on then :)
17:30<planetmaker>like server distances. Given to the cm...
17:30<@Rubidium>oh yes... that reminds me
17:30<@Rubidium>what to do when we have a mirror in the ISS? What would the location be?
17:30-!-Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-44-51.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
17:30<planetmaker>:-D
17:31<lennard>pfft, like it matters... the actual uplink of my servers is miles from the given location
17:31<lennard>well, actually, maybe just the one mile
17:32<planetmaker>Rubidium: but then: it's damn hard to get even sufficient bits uplink for simple joystick to the ISS.
17:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r18906 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use start and end column position instead of a mask for drawing a column in the smallmap.
17:33<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but... they've got internet on the ISS
17:33<planetmaker>E.g. you cannot even do remote control of your stuff aboard, but need to "voice control" an astronaut to handle the (local) joystick for you
17:33<planetmaker>Rubidium: yeah, uplink ;-)
17:33<planetmaker>but... I guess it's a different channel or so.
17:34<planetmaker>At least they're very terse about data rates. A pain to be honest
17:34<@Rubidium>planetmaker: but they can twitter from the ISS!
17:34<TrueBrain>they have now real Internet there planetmaker !
17:34<TrueBrain>I don't won't to now the latency ....
17:34<TrueBrain>Rubidium: and that mirror will be called ISS, and the graphical coordinates will be off the charts
17:35<planetmaker>Also it's a question of which module you're in ;-)
17:35<lennard>hmm
17:35<planetmaker>They got different systems up there. And each nation guard its system carefully... like if it mattered
17:35<lennard>is ISS geo-stationary?
17:35<planetmaker>of course not
17:36<sawtooth>far too low of an orbit for that
17:36<planetmaker>it's in a low earth orbit
17:36<TrueBrain>planetmaker: remind yourself that for him that is not so much 'of course' ;)
17:36<planetmaker>300km vs 36000km is a difference ;)
17:36<lennard>well, I'm consider educated enough that I probably should know ;)
17:36-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:36<lennard>but, anyway, that really would be a bit of a problem for just about any coordinate-system
17:37<TrueBrain>this is rather specific stuff ;) And as his name suggests, he knows a tiny bit more about it than you do, I hope :p
17:37<lennard>dunno, space != planet :P
17:37<TrueBrain>lennard: not really: just an "initiaal stelsel" based on their location/speed ;)
17:37<planetmaker>:-)
17:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r18907 /trunk/src/blitter/ (8 files): -Cleanup: Smallmap was the last user of SetPixelIfEmpty().
17:37<TrueBrain>go Alberth , go Alberth , go Alberth :)
17:38<Alberth>sorry, not today :)
17:38<TrueBrain>lennard: and don't see us having any problems with the fact we rotate around the sun at a pretty high speed :p :p :)
17:38<lennard>yeah, well, you *know* we convienently overlooked that fact :P
17:39<@Rubidium>or the solar system in the galaxy or the galaxy itself :)
17:39<TrueBrain>exactly :)
17:39<TrueBrain>syncing latest changes to all mirror .. that should get the NL mirror up and running in all dreamable ways :p
17:40<planetmaker>The centre of the universe is me ;-)
17:40<TrueBrain>LOL! The GB mirror immediately gets offloaded to NL :p
17:40<TrueBrain>even the CZ gets offloaded ... I guess most of our users are around NL :p
17:41-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
17:42<planetmaker>good night
17:42<TrueBrain>lennard: please visit http://binaries.openttd.org/ ; it should redirect you to snt.utwente .. can you confirm that for me?
17:42<TrueBrain>night planetmaker
17:42<lennard>TrueBrain: almost, it actually appends the index.html :P
17:42*frosch123 is still in cz
17:42<lennard>but yeah
17:43*planetmaker got utwente
17:43<lennard>it does
17:43<TrueBrain>lennard: is that a problem?
17:43<planetmaker>andyway... :-)
17:43<lennard>its a bit unconventional, but its ok :)
17:43<TrueBrain>lennard: please visit http://nl.binaries.openttd.org/ ; it should redirect you to snt.utwente .. can you confirm that for me?
17:43<TrueBrain>(and if both are within the guidelines you provided us with)
17:44<Hassan>Utwente, the biggest P*** area in NL
17:44<lennard>looks good to me
17:44<TrueBrain>good :) Then NL mirror is up and running :)
17:44<fjb>ftp.snt.utwente.nl
17:44<Hassan>At least for downloading :P
17:44<TrueBrain>I thank you very much for your time and effort, and speed of setting it up :)
17:44<lennard>np :)
17:44<lennard>methinks Hassan has a grudge :)
17:45<TrueBrain>P .... Pool?
17:45<Hassan>Well, I would say beer in that case
17:45<Hassan>which is the same as water
17:45<lennard>you're confusing us with heineken
17:45<Hassan>but anyhow, Utwente has some nice local network regarding downloading
17:45<Hassan>Grolsch mate
17:45-!-lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
17:45<lennard>yeah, well, thats beer, not water :)
17:46-!-Phalax [~kvirc@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:46<Hassan>Its just that the use of water is almost the same as the use of Beer
17:46<Hassan>Might be a negative thing
17:47<Hassan>While I am here, I might just do a small request, does someone here have a greyscale map of Egypt? I would like to make a nice scenario out of it....
17:49<fjb>pyramid.grf
17:50<Hassan>well, you would be tempted to just build the biggest OTTD hills
17:50<Hassan>to make them look like the piramids
17:50-!-lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:50<Hassan>where in game players would place their HQ's on, and brag about
17:50<frosch123>yeah, just flatten them for rails :p
17:51<Hassan>or that indeed
17:52*fjb doesn't want to be in Egypt.
17:53<Hassan>How come fjb?
17:53<Hassan>It is a beautiful place, where (if there was no desert) many many people could live
17:54<TrueBrain>hmm .. the balancer algorithm really works :)
17:54*TrueBrain is happy
17:54<Coco-Banana-Man>balancer algorithm?
17:54<TrueBrain>algorithm which distributes clients over our http mirrors
17:54<frosch123>Hassan: fjb is used to snow :p
17:54<Ammler>does bananas already load from mirrors too?
17:55<TrueBrain>for which I wrote my own httpd, 184 lines of code :)
17:55<TrueBrain>Ammler: no
17:55<fjb>Yeah.
17:55<Coco-Banana-Man>ah
17:55<lennard>TrueBrain: so suppose we go down, any detection on your side or do we need to poke you guys? :)
17:55<fjb>And Egypt is too repressive for my taste.
17:55<TrueBrain>currently, no detection;
17:56<TrueBrain>but the best detection is our community, which rarely let such things slip :p
17:56<lennard>heh
17:56<lennard>we need to add a NIC one of these days (to replace one of the crappy onboard ports)
17:56<TrueBrain>I mostly read sooner in this channel something is wrong, than my detection software can inform me :p
17:56<lennard>but I'll just give you a shout :)
17:57<Ammler>are or will there be any public summarized stats about the downloads?
17:57<TrueBrain>hehe, that is fine :)
17:57<lennard>mozilla is easier, they just figure it out and disable me :P
17:57-!-Phalax [~kvirc@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd
17:57<lennard>all on their own
17:57<TrueBrain>Ammler: yes; see http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/stats.txt for a draft
17:57<TrueBrain>lennard: the software will be extended to do so, but that will take some time (a week or so)
17:58<TrueBrain>I first need to rewrite the rsync part, as it now does mirror by mirror, instead of them all at once
17:58<TrueBrain>(wow, I write crappy english)
17:59<Eoin>The SixXS Staff have honored your request for a tunnel with the following
17:59<Eoin>specifications
17:59<Eoin>Woo! i have IPv6
17:59<TrueBrain>wow, without any comment he honored your request?
17:59<TrueBrain>that should be a first ...
17:59<TrueBrain>praise yourself lucky ;)
18:00<Eoin>My reason for the tunnel was "The only one nearby"
18:00<TrueBrain>(sorry, I shouldn't bitch on SixXS, they deliver good service)
18:00<Ammler>Is it ok to link directly to those binaries from forums or similiar? (e.g. http://binaries.openttd.org/binaries/bananas/OpenGFX.0.2.1.tar.gz) instead to our bundles.openttdcoop.org :-)
18:00<TrueBrain>I have a Surfnet connection here, but Surfnet is no longer in their normal list of tunnels .. I had to try a few times before my tunnel was finally switched to the Surfnet POP .. went from 14ms to 2ms ...
18:00-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-44-188.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:00<TrueBrain>Ammler: well, that link is broken, so no
18:00<Eoin>2ms? nice
18:00<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:01<frosch123>TrueBrain: the bananas dir only contains the most recent stuff, right?
18:01<TrueBrain>yes
18:01<Ammler>well, s|/bananas||
18:02<TrueBrain>Ammler: wrong
18:02<Ammler>lol
18:02<frosch123>hmm, even required by the tos
18:02<TrueBrain>Ammler: either way, I just synced those files today, expect many changes in the directory-structure and others in the coming days/weeks
18:03<TrueBrain>for now it is just a testbed
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18:03<Eoin>How can i test if i have IPv6 tunnel working?
18:03<TrueBrain>www.sixxs.net
18:03<@Rubidium>Eoin: ipv6.google.com
18:03<TrueBrain>top of the page
18:03<TrueBrain>will tell you
18:03<Eoin>hmm
18:03<Eoin>it says no
18:03<Eoin>Ive "Enabled" the AICCU client
18:04<fjb>http://www.kame.net/ and look if the turtle is dancing.
18:04-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76FDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
18:04<Eoin>sad turtle :(
18:05<TrueBrain>reminds me, I have to remove the old, obsolete, SixXS tunnel from openttd.org :p
18:05<TrueBrain>there :)
18:07<Eoin>I wonder
18:07<Eoin>i may need to install the driver for AICCU
18:07<Eoin>Any idea if Win7 comes with Tap32
18:07<Eoin>It dosent list which OS do/dont
18:08<TrueBrain>http://www.sixxs.net/wiki/Aiccu/Installing_on_Vista64
18:08<TrueBrain>in general: http://www.sixxs.net/wiki/SixXS_Wiki
18:09<Eoin>im on 32 bit
18:09<Eoin>will that variaty much
18:14<Eoin>Right, it seems Windows 7 is annoying and requires lots of extra setting up
18:14<Eoin>:|
18:19<TrueBrain>right, this has been a good day
18:19<TrueBrain>good night all
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18:43<SpComb^>curious, YAPF/YAPP won't route a train through an empty station if there's another route available?
18:44<Nite_Owl>penalties
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19:07<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - later all
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19:13<Eoin>@stats
19:13<@DorpsGek>Eoin: I have 8 registered users with 17 registered hostmasks; 2 owners and 0 admins.
19:13-!-Zahl [~Zahl@2002:5ce2:9506:1:e127:de92:a4fd:25b7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:14<Eoin>nonoo
19:14<Eoin>!stats
19:14<Eoin>:(
19:14-!-Zahl [~Zahl@2002:5ce2:9506:1:e127:de92:a4fd:25b7] has joined #openttd
19:14<Xaroth>stats for that?
19:14-!-Hassan [~Admin@212.116.219.200] has quit [Quit: n00dlesoup for only 0,99€]
19:14<TinoDidriksen>Eoin, http://alpha.visl.sdu.dk/~tino/pisg/OFTC/ style stats you want?
19:14<Eoin>indeed
19:14<Eoin>thanks
19:18<Sionide>wow, the word openttd is said more than common words like there and would..
19:19<Sionide>very interesting reading from pisg!
19:20<Xaroth>:o I'm more 'active' than orudge :o
19:20<Xaroth>even more active than the CIA bot :o
19:21<Xaroth>no wait, wrong bot
19:21<Xaroth>and I think I just overtook Belugas with that useless remark :P
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19:39<@orudge>Xaroth: perhaps here, but likely not here: http://ircstats.ttdpatch.net/tycoon-all.html
19:39<@orudge>:p
19:39*orudge bed
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20:08<PeterT>hi al
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20:21<SpComb^>PeterT: installing unix2dos was pretty simple
20:21<SpComb^>PeterT: the gnuwin32 package provides a dependencies .zip
20:21<PeterT>where does this come from?
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20:29<SpComb^>PeterT: but I also did an improved version of my msvc-build script: http://qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/scripts/
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20:30<PeterT>netsplit. fail.
20:30-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
20:30<PeterT>SpComb^:
20:30<PeterT>I see
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21:24<PeterT>Netsplit. Fail.
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22:11<dragonhorseboy>hey
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22:13<PeterT>Hi dragonhorseboy
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23:02<TMS>Is anyone here good with making heightmaps not based on real locations?
23:02<PeterT>TMS!
23:02<TMS>Where!
23:02<PeterT>:-)
23:03<PeterT>hello
23:03<TMS>Wait, holy shit, Peter?
23:03<PeterT>yes ;-)
23:03<TMS>Is that you?
23:03<TMS>Well, this is unexpected.
23:03<PeterT>hence the whole "TMS!"
23:03<PeterT>TMS, join #ClanMega.Europe
23:11<TMS>http://flamescape.com/blog/wp-content/2009/01/openttd_full.jpg <== What is this awesomeness?
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23:20<fjb>TMS: It's a fake.
23:20<TMS>I know. It's just fun to look at.
23:20<TMS>By the way, if you're a part of it, great job with opengfx.
23:21<TMS>Looks even better than Simon Foster's original work.
23:23<PeterT>TMS: Join #jonty
23:23<PeterT>they have a working Autopilot bot
23:23<TMS>k
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23:50<PeterT>does increasing the net_frame_freq make the client-side game better overall?
23:50<PeterT>what does it do?
---Logclosed Sun Jan 24 00:00:56 2010