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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-27

---Logopened Wed Jan 27 00:00:05 2010
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05:05<Terkhen>good morning
05:05<@peter1138>hi
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05:14<TrueBrain>lalala
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05:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18923 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#3565]: Check source stationspec exists before copying layouts.
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06:09*SpComb^ pokes fonsinchen
06:09<TrueBrain>poke harder
06:10<SpComb^>/quote SUMMON
06:10<SpComb^>( http://irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/chapter5.html#c5_4 )
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06:24<@Rubidium>your summoning skills are not working
06:24<Forked>not here nor on efnet
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06:25<TrueBrain>well .. I don't think there are users on the ircserver themself
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07:06<Noldo>TrueBrain: What constitutes a datacenter?
07:07-!-Johnmit [~John@93-97-107-116.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
07:08<Johnmit>For those that are following Apple: Leaked tablet photos could be real? http://bit.ly/9tbkW2
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>nobody here is remotely interested in apple...
07:09<Forked>also we don't trust your shortened url
07:09<TrueBrain>Noldo: try making a suggestion, and I tell you if it is :)
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07:10<@Rubidium>basically: does it have multiple filled racks? If so, then probably, if not then unlikely
07:10<Forked>ah right
07:10<Forked>Johnmit: nice try with the rickrolling. also it failed
07:10-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75756.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:11<TrueBrain>and is it connected to your home ADSL modem, then it most likely isn't :p
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07:13<Xaroth>Johnmit: rickrolling was so last century.. nowadays there's previewers for bit.ly and warning addons for firefox.
07:13<Xaroth>so no matter how you wrap it up, it won't work.
07:14<Noldo>TrueBrain: well, I have some controll over http://lame.lut.fi/
07:15<TrueBrain>Noldo: we are not looking for anything that can or might go by you changing your position in that thing
07:15<TrueBrain>in other words: we need mirrors which say yes out of their own perspective, not because of 'for friends' perspective :)
07:15<@Rubidium>"Apache/2.2.9 (Debian) Server at 10.0.0.34 Port 80" <- yeah, that's lame :)
07:16<Noldo>Rubidium: you happen to know how to fake that btw ;)
07:16<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: to be fair it's like the SNT
07:16<Johnmit>Xaroth - yeah I know, but its still fun to reminisce
07:16<TrueBrain>Rubidium: no, SNT agreed on it by their own, not because you or I asked them ;)
07:16<Johnmit>and admittedly it works better on twitter then IRC...
07:17<Xaroth>depends on the irc channel tbh
07:17*Rubidium wonders why I, as a Dutchy, get so annoyed by then v. than
07:17<SpComb^>http://qmsk.net/~terom/stuff/P6029799.JPG <-- would this make a good mirror?
07:17<SpComb^>it's, err, well, kind of rack-mounted, in a way
07:17<SpComb^>and I hope you don't mind if I'd turn it off at night so I can sleep? :)
07:17<Xaroth>Rubidium: too much time with petern?
07:18<TrueBrain>Noldo: so if you can promise something long term, it is a more-than-welcome mirror
07:18<Xaroth>it's been said he kills a kitten every time somebody mixes up then/than
07:19<Noldo>TrueBrain: I'll ask
07:19<@peter1138>SpComb^, odd angle...
07:19<SpComb^>peter1138: heat rises
07:19<@peter1138>true
07:19<Tera>SpComb^: *facepalm*
07:21<Xaroth>SpComb^: big issue is, where does the cool air come in :P
07:22<Xaroth>unless there's holes in that board :P
07:22<@Rubidium>that reminds me of that instance when the SNT had some cooling problems
07:22<SpComb^>pfft, there's at least a 20cm^2 air gap between the door and the bottom of the shoe-rack cabinet
07:23<SpComb^>and the door's a little crooked, so there's plenty of open space around the edges around the top
07:24<Johnmit>Xaroth do you mean the board that's made out of slats?
07:25<Johnmit>SpComb^ - so it gets plenty of air because the furniture is badly built?
07:25<SpComb^>quite
07:25<SpComb^>it's a netburst, it's *supposed* to run hot :)
07:27<Xaroth>SpComb^: heh
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07:38<bartavelle>yo
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07:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18924 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: AIOrder::GetOrderDestination could return a non-waypoint tile when the waypoint was a multitile waypoint
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08:00<Eddi|zuHause>oh this noise really drives me nuts...
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08:03<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: you get used to it over time
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>you mean: you get deaf over time
08:03<SpComb^>weel, turn the music up louder
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08:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18925 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.cpp: -Fix (r18924): a waypoint can have a buoy but no rail waypoint tile
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09:05<@Belugas>hello
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10:24<JimD>Hello
10:25<JimD>Has anyone ever developed a way to have fastforward mode in multiplayer?
10:25<@Rubidium>yes
10:25<@Rubidium>somehow none of the clients could keep up
10:26<@Rubidium>quickly they lagged more than 4 game days and got booted from the server
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10:34<JimD>Is there simply an increased game speed instead of fast forward?
10:35<@Rubidium>you can 'hack' the source to make the time of a tick shorter, but that might give lags at the clients
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10:50<@peter1138>more likely to drop off
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11:18<@Belugas>stupid bank... Me:"i need a serial cable for that unit" B:"i don't know what you mean (...) here are 4 cable types, choose the one you need" Me:"the green one will be fine. it's a serial connector. But where is the power pack?". B:"You don't need one, the power comes from the computer" Me:"And why is there a connector for a 12v input on the connector?" B:"I don't know what you mean"
11:18<@Belugas>stupid stupid stupid!
11:19<@peter1138>yes, silly
11:19<@peter1138>serial port does not provide power :s
11:20<fjb>Serial port? Don't know what you mean. :-P
11:21-!-Johnmit` [~John@93-97-107-116.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
11:26<@Belugas>the funny thing : they gave me serial, ethernet, usb and standalone. All of them DO require power :P
11:26<@Belugas>fjb: it was before your time ;)
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11:27<@Rubidium>Belugas: USB provides (some) power
11:27<fjb>:-P
11:27<@peter1138>probably not enough for it
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>not enough to spin up a hard drive, though ;)
11:27<@Rubidium>and there's also PoE (power over ethernet)
11:27<+glx>up to 250mA IIRC
11:27<@peter1138>500mA
11:28<@peter1138>2.5W
11:28<+glx>ha right
11:30<@Rubidium>anyhow... the good old days of interlink :)
11:30<@Belugas>the unit do requires 12v and tolerates 600ma to 1A.
11:30<@Belugas>youhou
11:35<@peter1138>7.2W then
11:35<@Rubidium>so PoE is enough :)
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11:53<@Belugas>right
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12:46<Eddi|zuHause>hm... anyone else getting "connection refused" on tt-forums?
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>"network unreachable"
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>orudge?
12:47<murr4y>front page works fine here
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12:54<Eddi|zuHause>hm... weird... it works from the other computer...
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>but other websites work fine...
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13:02<frosch123>you got banned?
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13:16<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: both computers have the same public ip
13:24<@orudge>Eddi|zuHause: IPv6?
13:25<@orudge>or is it fine now?
13:25<@orudge>everything seems fine for me, anyway
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm, that might be possible, that i have IPv6 in my local network, and it can't get out of there...
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13:38<@orudge>Eddi|zuHause: does http://ipv4.tt-forums.net/ work?
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, ipv4.* works, ipv6.* does not
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13:40<+glx>I lost IPv6 for OFTC
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, not worth digging into from my side...
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18926 /trunk/src/lang/ (romanian.txt ukrainian.txt unfinished/vietnamese.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: romanian - 3 changes by kkmic
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Madvin
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 738 changes by myquartz
13:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18927 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: move Vietnamese out of unfinished
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>so wt3 does not handle the unfinished part?
13:52<@Rubidium>it doesn't move the files around
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14:01<@Rubidium>but it handles unfinished, as you can see just before 738 changes were made
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14:22<Ammler>it isn't possible to join a server with a dedicated version, I assume?
14:27<FauxFaux>Why would you want to do that?
14:29<Ammler>for a "webcam" :-)
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14:32<@peter1138>you could probably cobble something together
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14:37<Ammler>looks like it does simply ignore -n
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14:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18928 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18304): The date in case of 'early arrival' was misaligned in the timetable GUI.
14:55<Ammler>hmm, today, I don't find the screenshots anymore :-o
14:55<Ammler>SpComb^: seems to be right with "randomly" locations
15:03<Ammler>ups, there it is :-)
15:03<Ammler>(seems like you need to define the blitter with -b, it doesn't read from the cfg in the dedicated version)
15:04<@peter1138>it's spelled, and pronounced, "oops"
15:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18929 /trunk/src/vehicle_base.h: -Fix [FS#3568]: Preserve some timetable related vehicle flags during autorenew/-replace.
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15:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18930 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_group.cpp ai_group.hpp): -Fix: [NoAI] Autoreplace is also valid for the default group.
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15:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18931 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_cmd.cpp company_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Disabling autoreplace rules might count invalid engines.
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16:58<Terkhen>good night
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17:00<stalwart10>is there any way to change the date format in openttd? I've been grepping through the source until I found a hard-coded format, is it possible to internationalize it?
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17:08<@Rubidium>stalwart10: the date format where?
17:08<stalwart10>for example in the status bar
17:08<@Rubidium>that's 'customisable' via the language file
17:08<stalwart10>it would be nice to change from d/m/y to somethind else
17:09<stalwart10>oh
17:09<stalwart10>it looks very cryptic
17:09<stalwart10>what does "{STRING} {STRING} {NUM}" mean?
17:10<@Rubidium>take a string from the 'stack', take another string from the 'stack' and take a number from the 'stack'
17:10<Luukland>stalwart, you can use LONG, ISO, SHORT format
17:10<stalwart10>ahhh
17:10<@Rubidium>e.g. Japanese has a different format
17:10<stalwart10>oh
17:11<stalwart10>thanks
17:11<Luukland>Advanced settings -> Interface -> Display Options
17:11<stalwart10>I am gonna check that
17:11<Luukland>AH no, that is for savegame only
17:11<Luukland>my bad
17:11<stalwart10>luukland: that's for the file name
17:11<stalwart10>for the statusbar
17:12<stalwart10>I can change between short and long
17:12<stalwart10>I will see the japanese version
17:12<Luukland>you can make a patch for it :)
17:12<stalwart10>hope I can change back to normal
17:12<stalwart10>guess so :-)
17:14<stalwart10>now it looks like a translation issue
17:14<stalwart10>I am even less familiar with the translator
17:14<@Rubidium>the hebrew date is the most fun :)
17:15<stalwart10>why is that?
17:15<stalwart10>besides the cryptic charaters :-)
17:15<@Rubidium>it's a right-to-left language
17:16<stalwart10>yes
17:16<stalwart10>hmm
17:16<@Rubidium>and the 'reorder' algorithm messes with the order of the numbers
17:16<stalwart10>like the {LRM} part?
17:16<@Rubidium>so you need to do a bit more persuasion to make sure it does it right
17:16<@Rubidium>stalwart10: yes
17:17<@Rubidium>and the } and so that look incorrect
17:17<@Rubidium>(well, at least here it looks incorrect)
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>what if i want to translate the date into islamic calender?
17:19<stalwart10>:-)
17:19<stalwart10>I think it means a patch
17:19<stalwart10>Now I'm happy because I could change the date format for my language
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17:20<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: then you're probably breaking NewGRFs and the likes
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not if the change is limited to gui
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. it still counts the christian date internally
17:22<@Rubidium>but... monthly saves
17:22<@Rubidium>makes things quite tricky
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it shouldn't be more difficult than kilometer/mile and the like
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17:23<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: really? Tell me how many days the first month has :)
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know... does the islamic calender have months?
17:24<stalwart10>Eddi: :-)
17:24<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yes, it has months
17:24<stalwart10>I think wikipedia knows
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>i guess it's moon based, like the jewish calender
17:25<@Rubidium>"A majority of theologians oppose the use of calculations on the grounds that the Qur'an requires direct sighting in Surah al-Baqarah 2:185 [19] and that calculations would not conform with Muhammad's recommendation to observe the new moon of Ramadan and Shawal in order to determine the beginning of these months.[20]"
17:25<@Rubidium>that quote tells me enough :)
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound much different than most of the protestant countries opposing to the gregorian calender for centuries...
17:27<@Rubidium>and actually, one could argue that someone in India and America could observe the new moon on a different day
17:27<@Rubidium>as such their months start at a different day
17:27<@Rubidium>on the other hand...
17:28<stalwart10>I fixed the date format, and know I want to put it in the translator
17:28<stalwart10>but I am not allowed
17:28<stalwart10>so can I send it as a patch?
17:29<@Rubidium>disable "Always show long date in the status bar" + a NewGRF to change the introduction dates and you're done :)
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17:30<@Rubidium>although... it's a good argument against visible climate changes throughout the year
17:30<@Rubidium>stalwart10: just become a translator?
17:31<stalwart10>I've tried that
17:31<stalwart10>I clicked and everything
17:31<stalwart10>but it is closed
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17:31<stalwart10>it really one single string
17:32<@Rubidium>I've heard that before and before we knew it he had 100 'single' strings that were wrong and needed fixing
17:32<stalwart10>oh
17:32<@Rubidium>anyhow, you might want to read the page once you clicked on 'faq'
17:33<stalwart10>Rubidium: good point
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17:36<@Rubidium>actually, it's quite likely that your language isn't even fully translated
17:36<stalwart10>it is, it says so
17:36<stalwart10>just the date format is not correct
17:37<@Rubidium>hmm, what language are we speaking about then?
17:37<stalwart10>Hungarian
17:37<@Rubidium>that has two untranslated strings
17:38<stalwart10>oh
17:38<stalwart10>since when?
17:38<stalwart10>I can see it
17:38<stalwart10>these must be nasty strings introduced in a recent revision :-)
17:39<@Rubidium>the 22nd
17:40<stalwart10>maybe 5 days is not that bad?
17:40<stalwart10>how far away is the new stable?
17:40<@Rubidium>at least 1 release candidate
17:41<@Rubidium>(or in other words, there's no definite date)
17:41<stalwart10>I see
17:42<@Rubidium>although, since 1.0 hasn't been branched it'll be some weeks at least
17:42<aber>I am color...blind
17:42<aber>Coffee black and egg white
17:42<aber>There is one thing i don't like about the new graphics, its the "Click to stop all trains inside the depot" and the "Click to start..." Button.
17:43<@Rubidium>aber: new graphics == OpenGFX?
17:43<SmatZ>aber: same problem here ;)
17:43<aber>right. OpenGFX
17:44<SmatZ>also, red button usually implies "start recording" for me :-)
17:45<stalwart10>SmatZ: it is not that bad, because these are the same buttons the vehicles have
17:45<@Rubidium>in that case I suggest that you file a bug report/feature request about it at their official tracker
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17:49<@peter1138>oh, yeah, they used a blob instead of a flag
17:50<aber>Totally different thing, who or where is openttd.org hosted? It takes about one minute for me to open a page.
17:51<SmatZ>"Powered By LeaseWeb"
17:51<SmatZ>I don't have any problem though
17:51<stalwart10>other totally different thing: I get sometimes a message in the console: "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" what does this mean?
17:51<SmatZ>stalwart10: a string is too long for destination buffer
17:52<SmatZ>in other words, you will probably see incomplete strings being drawn
17:52<@Rubidium>would be nice to know what the exact circumstances are to get that debug message
17:52<aber>This is an networking thing. My network Connection is not to bad :D at all.
17:54<@Rubidium>aber: is it a specific page that loads slow, or is it just *everything*?
17:54<@Rubidium>might you have (locally) enabled IPv6 and that doesn't get routed to the internet?
17:55<@Rubidium>in that case, does tt-forums.net load as slow too?
17:56<aber>i have an IPv adress... And i had this problem with also inside the forum.
17:56<@Rubidium>aber: ipv4.tt-forums.net works quick?
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17:58<aber>at the moment the forums thems to be really quick, while contacting openttd.org take quite a while.
17:59<@Rubidium>does disabling IPv6 help?
18:01<aber>okay, wooow. Its so fast.
18:03<stalwart10>SmatZ: where this string might be coming from?
18:03<aber>so, a problem with my non working IPv6 setup?
18:04<SmatZ>stalwart10: it doesn't happen for me when using English language - it is probably caused by language file you are using or by a newgrf
18:04<@Rubidium>aber: yes
18:04<SmatZ>stalwart10: does it happen when you open one spiecific window?
18:04<stalwart10>SmatZ: when I load a game
18:04<stalwart10>without newgrf's
18:04<stalwart10>in Hungarian
18:05<SmatZ>stalwart10: can you post the savegame?
18:08<SmatZ>hmm
18:08<stalwart10>I am on it
18:09<SmatZ>stalwart10: does a "NoAI Debug" window open after loading that game?
18:09<stalwart10>no
18:09<SmatZ>:(
18:09<stalwart10>there are no competitors
18:10<Eddi|zuHause><stalwart10> other totally different thing: I get sometimes a message in the console: "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" what does this mean? <-- you happen to use cargodist?
18:10<stalwart10>Eddi: no, I don't use any newgrf extras
18:11<Xaroth>ca.. nevermind
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>i only get that message in cargodist, not in trunk...
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18:15<SmatZ>stalwart10: maybe it happens when you open the "load game" dialog?
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18:16<stalwart10>SmatZ: no
18:16<SmatZ>:(
18:16<stalwart10>when I actually load the game
18:20<SmatZ>stalwart10: if you can compile, you can try adding breakpoint (crashpoint ;) to string.cpp:86
18:20<SmatZ>and have a look at the backtrace
18:20<stalwart10>SmatZ: I will try that
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18:22<fjb>Moin
18:23<SmatZ>hello fjb
18:24<stalwart10>SmatZ: strange, I added simple exit call and now I don't even get the message
18:25<SmatZ>stalwart10: and does it exit?
18:25<stalwart10>SmatZ: no
18:25<SmatZ>it's possible buffers aren't flushed or so
18:25<SmatZ>ah, hmm
18:25<stalwart10>the whole message is gone
18:25<stalwart10>the problem is gone
18:25<SmatZ>:-D
18:26<SmatZ>perhaps there was something broken in your build or lang file
18:26<stalwart10>a strange way to solve a problem, but thanks :-)
18:26<SmatZ>you are welcome ;)
18:26<stalwart10>maybe
18:26<SmatZ>I hope it won't be back when you remove that exit()
18:26<stalwart10>it did not come back
18:26<SmatZ>:-)
18:26<stalwart10>hope it stays this way
18:27<stalwart10>I upgraded something in a lang file
18:27<stalwart10>maybe that was the source of the problem
18:27<SmatZ>maybe it wasn't up-to-date
18:27<stalwart10>maybe
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18:34<__ln__>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/world/europe/18iht-women.html
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that can only happen in west germany... in east germany a majority of women were working, and schools generally had (optional) afternoon services for their children (called "Hort")
18:46<__ln__>"Western wives, by contrast, until 1977 officially needed husbands’ permission to work."
18:46*SmatZ can't understand how woman can prefer work over children
18:48<__ln__>but a man can?
18:49<@Rubidium>what if they work with their 'brainchild'
18:49<Markk>__ln__: that sounds like Spain?
18:49<SmatZ>there's a history of millions of years of evolution
18:50<Markk>Ah, missed a bit :)
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18:53<@peter1138>easy
18:53<@peter1138>work pays money, children just cost money
18:54<Markk>It's a long time investment
18:54<Markk>Sort of
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18:55<Eddi|zuHause>but... "capitalistic" thinking is all about short time gain...
18:55<@Rubidium>Markk: why? Because when I'm (age) eligble for retirement the whole system of me getting some money has been overturned... and I reckon the banks pull another 'bye bye money' trick out of their hat
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>screwing over the next generation by any means possible
18:55<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: of course :)
18:56<Markk>Rubidium: yeah, but I was more thinking of a long time investment for the society and for the country, not for the parent
18:56<@Rubidium>and if we would follow evolution, females would be pregnant *earlier*, not later
18:59<@Rubidium>Markk: the long time effects of everyone breeding aren't that good, especially for hereditary diseases and such
18:59<Markk>Good point
19:00<Markk>But I was more thinking of society and not evolutionary
19:01<@Rubidium>from a society point of view people with hereditary diseases not breeding is good (at least cheaper for healthcare and such)
19:02<planetmaker>he... anyone try this: empty depot. Shift+click on "start trains button".
19:02<planetmaker>Watch the interesting error message :-P
19:03<planetmaker>shall I make a FS entry for it?
19:03<@Rubidium>but well, I guess I digress
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: how do you divid hereditary deseases from next-step-of-evolution mutations?
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>+e
19:05<Markk>Rubidium: yeah, in long term
19:05<Markk>But it costs too keep them alive too
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>in general, society is an opposite design goal from evolution. they contradict each other
19:05<Markk>(I have a hard time with too and to)
19:06<Markk>(And some beer on that and you're f*cked)
19:06<Yexo>planetmaker: try holding shift when giving a vehicle an order
19:07<Eddi|zuHause>besides, population growth is one of the biggest problems of the civilisation. because at some point it reaches a state where the world's population cannot be fed by the world's ressources
19:07<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: dieing unless kept alive with massive amounts of medicine doesn't sound like a viable way for evolution, i.e. without medicine that branch of evolution would be pruned
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that's why i said contradictory... society tells us to keep them alive, evolution says we need to kill them
19:08<@Rubidium>that's why society has become kinda stupid
19:08<planetmaker>now, interestingly, Yexo, I get a cost estimate of 0 for starting 1 vehicle, but an empty string when starting no vehicle.
19:08<@Rubidium>but heh, it's capitalism and that thrives wit keeping people alive
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: problem is that this fact has been abused for several centuries by ultra-nationalist movements over the world
19:09<Yexo>planetmaker: oh, didn't read _empty_ depot the first time
19:09<planetmaker>:-)
19:11<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: guess Godwin's law has been proven once more
19:11<planetmaker>works also for RV, so probably also for all depots
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it's not only the nazis, it started way earlier
19:12<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: nah, I wanted to say that the nazis were kinda the opposite; they 'pruned' the 'sick'
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19:12<Eddi|zuHause>and the exact same arguments are used today... news headlines along the line of "in 40 years, the dumb people will outpopulate the intelligent ones" and the like
19:13<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that's an understatement :(
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, but the same kind of movement happened in the USA and the UK at that time...
19:14<__ln__>that has already happend based on observations of any web 2.0 site.
19:14<__ln__>+e
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: sterilisation or euthanasia of people with genetic deseases
19:15<@Rubidium>well, they're quite against that in the USA now
19:16<__ln__>sterilisation was a common practice in many countries back then.
19:17<@Rubidium>not to mention how stupid wars are... sending the healthy away to be killed and leaving the sick at home
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-06-23-eugenics-carrie-buck_N.htm <-- might be an interesting read
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19:35<stalwart10>woohoo
19:36<stalwart10>I have a new version of my candidate for the new opening title :-D http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=851670#p851670
19:36-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1F93D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36<Eddi|zuHause2>"sound that a steam train is making when entering a tunnel?"
19:36<stalwart10>I think it is getting late
19:36<stalwart10>thanks for all your generous help
19:37<stalwart10>esp. SmatZ and Rubidium
19:37<stalwart10>see you around
19:37<SmatZ>gratz, stalwart10 :)
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20:21<aber>Whats going on here "Eugenics"?
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20:54<PeterT>anybody on a win32 system able to see the -f parameter from the --help menu? (reffering to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3574)
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>windows does not have the concept of "fork"
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>as such, the parameter makes no sense there
20:57<PeterT>but the code says "!defined(WIN32)
20:57<PeterT>"
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>exactly...
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>"on anything other than windows"
20:59<PeterT>I read this (#if !defined(__MORPHOS__) && !defined(__AMIGA__) && !defined(WIN32)
20:59<PeterT>) as "if you are using morphos, amiga, or win32, show the forked parameter
21:01<SmatZ>! means "not"
21:01<PeterT>ah
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21:01<PeterT>so every OS other than morphos, amiga, and win32
21:01<PeterT>what does that leave for win64, then?
21:01<SmatZ>yeah :)
21:02<SmatZ>hard to say, I think it belongs to WIN32 family
21:02<PeterT>SmatZ: Are you an admin on bugs.openttd.org?
21:02<PeterT>or someone that could close my bugreport?
21:02<SirSquidness>win64 doesn't have teh -f option in --help either
21:02<SmatZ>PeterT: what bugreport?
21:02<PeterT>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3574
21:03<SmatZ>PeterT: done :)
21:03<PeterT>I completely failed at reading and interperating the code there
21:03<PeterT>thanks, SmatZ
21:03<SmatZ>:-)
21:04<PeterT>so, what does "forked" actually do?
21:04<SmatZ>it forks into background, so you can use terminal for something else :-p
21:04<PeterT>how do you re-open it, then?
21:05<SmatZ>I guess it doesn't output anything as well
21:05<SmatZ>via rcon
21:05<SmatZ>or just kill it :-p
21:05<PeterT>that would work
21:05<SmatZ>if you want to stop it :)
21:05<PeterT>something like rcon pw "quit"
21:07<PeterT>SmatZ, would you be so kindest as to take a quick look at this? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46968
21:08<SmatZ>PeterT: personally, I think it's a good idea
21:08<SmatZ>also I wonder about parameters of
21:08<SmatZ>-g [game]
21:08<SmatZ>like, -g -D will load game -D ?
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21:08<PeterT>No
21:08<PeterT>I don't think so
21:09<PeterT>What I've used is -D -g savegame.sav
21:09<SmatZ>I should have a look at it
21:09<SmatZ>ok, -g -D starts dedicated server :)
21:09<SmatZ>makes it a bit complicated to load game starting with "-" ;)
21:10<PeterT>is there any speicifc order that the code for parameters should be in?
21:10<PeterT>if one was, say, writing a patch
21:11<PeterT>i will try copying the dedicated server code
21:11<SmatZ>I guess "openttd -n" should be used for that
21:11<PeterT>that's what I thought
21:11<SmatZ>when no parameter is supplied
21:11<SmatZ>but ... well...
21:12<PeterT>wait
21:12<PeterT>what about "-n [port]" to load a different port?
21:12<SmatZ>I don't like -g being used for "start new game" both "load game" neither
21:12<Eddi|zuHause><SmatZ> makes it a bit complicated to load game starting with "-" ;) <-- typically programs introduce a "--" option to resolve these ambiguities
21:12<SirSquidness>If you were to use quotes around the file name, I imagine that would work too?
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>but that doesn't really work for parameters like this
21:12<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: -- is usually used as "now follows list of files to work with"
21:13<SirSquidness>Or escaping the - with a \ ?
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>because you'd need to put the -- between the parameter and the file
21:13<SmatZ>SirSquidness: shell will send it further as if there were no ""
21:13<PeterT>what bothers me is that there is no option to use "-g "../dir/savegame.sav"
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>i seem to remember that paths are relative to the root of the data dir
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. the personal dir or something...
21:15<PeterT>yes
21:15<PeterT>that means the sav *has* to be in the /save dir
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>but this conflicts with the whole data path search
21:15<PeterT>or /saves, what ever it may be
21:15<+glx>quickly backread: WIN64 defines WIN32 too
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21:24<PeterT>SmatZ: Will you work on implementing -n as network game?
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21:30<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: that is very ambiguous...
21:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18932 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Codechange: Don't constantly redraw drop drop list.
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: what if you want "-n IP:Port" to bind your server on that IP, instead of joining a server at that IP?
21:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18933 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: Don't constantly redraw a window when moving it unless it actually moves.
21:31<Eddi|zuHause>(at least that's the meaning i deduce from "-D IP:Port")
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>what's a "drop drop list"?
21:32<@peter1138>down
21:32<@peter1138>clearly
21:32<Eddi|zuHause>;)
21:33<Eddi|zuHause>at least it's more clear than $someone's missing "not"s ;)
21:34<Eddi|zuHause>the night shift is pretty crowded today... you on vacation or something?
21:35<@peter1138>i was lazy and didn't go to bed
21:35<PeterT>Eddi|zuHause: Then perhaps a different parameter would be needed
21:35<@peter1138>and thus i'm too awake now
21:35<Eddi|zuHause>i know that feeling ;)
21:35<Eddi|zuHause>and now the cats are sleeping on my bed...
21:42<@peter1138>well, i'll give it a go
21:47<Eddi|zuHause>yay, there's a snowstorm outside...
21:47<Sacro>heh, nooo
21:47<Sacro>don't send it here
21:47*Sacro doesnae want snow
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>they said wind is coming from north-west, so that's unlikely ;)
21:49*Sacro knows about wind
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21:52<Eddi|zuHause>rule is fairly simple: north-west is wet and cold, north-east is dry and cold, anything south-ish is dry and warm (so-called "Föhn")
21:52<Eddi|zuHause>(not to be confused with "Fön", which is a hair-dryer
21:54<Sacro>my german bist nicht so gut
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21:55<Eddi|zuHause>of course you guys don't have an eqivalent of "Föhn", because you don't have any mountains :p
21:56<cornjuliox>i dont know if this is caused by openttd but every time I try to play the game it causes my PC to hang. I've tried 1.0.0 beta3 and 0.75 both with the same results
21:56<cornjuliox>i suspect it might actually be openttd because my PC doesn't hang like that with any other program.
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21:57<Eddi|zuHause>cornjuliox: what are the symptoms of this "hanging" and which operation system?
21:58<cornjuliox>Eddi|zuHause, i'm on windows xp, there are no 'symptoms' to the hanging i would simply be playing for anywhere between 5-10 minutes and everything just stops
21:58<cornjuliox>pc no longer responds to input
21:59<cornjuliox>and nothing will bring it out of this state except a hard reset
21:59<Eddi|zuHause>cornjuliox: might be bad memory
21:59<cornjuliox>probably
21:59<cornjuliox>but i dont
21:59<cornjuliox>but i don't experience this kind of hanging with anything except openttd
21:59<cornjuliox>*
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22:00<Eddi|zuHause>cornjuliox: have you tried a memtest? download something like knoppix and boot from that CD, type "memtest"
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>any other bootable linux should include memtest as well...
22:01<cornjuliox>don't have a burner, is there anything else i can try?
22:02<cornjuliox>as a matter of fact the cd drive on this PC is broken :-(
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know if you can put it on a bootable diskette...
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>haven't used one of those for a decade
22:03<cornjuliox>they don't make diskettes anymore, do they?
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>you could also try getting something for a bootable USB stick
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure they do, but you'll probably have to search for them :p
22:05<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, you'll need _something_ to boot from in order to do a memtest
22:06<Eddi|zuHause>memtest86 is the program you should be googling for
22:09<Eddi|zuHause>booting is the only way to make sure there's absolutely no program running
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22:13<+glx>when does it happen ?
22:13<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, random computer freezes are more likely a hardware or drover problem than a software problem. no "userspace" software should have the ability to cause that
22:14<Eddi|zuHause>glx: he said 5-10 minutes into the game
22:14<SirSquidness>cornjuliox: grab something like http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=103 Prime95 to stress your system
22:14<+glx>hmm yes, I suspect hardware problems
22:14<SirSquidness>if there is a fulty component such as Eddi|zuHause suspects, then this will almost certainly pick it up
22:15<cornjuliox>prime95? ok
22:15<SirSquidness>Leave it running for a few hours
22:15<SirSquidness>And make sure to select the stress test option
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22:15<cornjuliox>ok
22:15<cornjuliox>i'll check it out
22:16<cornjuliox>i g2g i'll come back later after the test runs.
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