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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-28

---Logopened Thu Jan 28 00:00:08 2010
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03:12<Terkhen>good morning
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04:15<ahac>hello
04:16<ahac>does anyone know how you can transport fruit with the 2cc train set?
04:27<Ammler>ahac: filter for the cargo
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05:02<boekabart>was playing 1.0.0 b3 yesterday, and after a while my screen was littered with windows. Any way to get rid of them easily?
05:04<@Rubidium>del?
05:06<boekabart>you make it sound so easy ;)
05:06<__ln__>del.
05:06<boekabart>that deleted all windows?
05:07<@Rubidium>or IIRC shift-del for also the pinned windows
05:09<boekabart>I have to say... on a 15" 1680x1050 screen, I really miss the ctrl-d modus
05:10*boekabart should get a 24" monitor...
05:11<TrueBrain>he didn't say CTRL+d, did he? Omg ..... no, he didn't. Really, he didn't, did he? :p
05:11<TrueBrain>boekabart: increase the font-size and you will be fine :)
05:11<boekabart>No, not referring to the windows... but to the game screen
05:12<@peter1138>...
05:12<@peter1138>you mean you miss double size
05:16-!-bartaway is now known as bartavelle
05:16<bartavelle>hello
05:20<Ammler>doesn't windows desktop have something like a zoom-in?
05:25<bartavelle>http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897434.aspx
05:27<Ammler>boekabart: there you have you "ctrl-d" ^ ;-)
05:29<@peter1138>You could play with 32bpp-extra-zoom, although that will be ugly for 8bpp graphics.
05:30<@peter1138>Apparently blury bilinear filtered 8bpp graphics are better than nearest-neighbour :s
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>there was a nice patch for additional filters for the old ctrl+d mode, including a "high quality" one that was optimised for isometric lines
05:41<Eddi|zuHause>that was amazing, except for fonts
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06:15<@peter1138>In theory you can just apply it to viewport sprites.
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, but you should use toroidal sprites or something, else you get artifacts at the edges
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07:55<Ammler>http://pastebin.ca/1769278 <-- how do I find the last line with tile:0000XXX?
07:56<TinoDidriksen>| grep 'tile:0000' | tail -n 1
07:56*SmatZ wanted to say the same :)
07:56<Ammler>so I need to read the whole file?
07:57<Ammler>shouldn't matter?
07:57<SpComb^>import it into a database and look it up from there? :)
07:59<TinoDidriksen>Import to a db? Overhead 101.
07:59<TinoDidriksen>grep is fast
08:01<Ammler>hmm, I could analyze the console with autopilot...
08:05<FauxFaux>while ! tail -n $i < file | grep 'tile:0000'; do a = $i; i = $(($i+1)); done
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08:19<Eddi|zuHause>you can continuously monitor a file with "tail -f logfile | grep blah"
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>and update some stuff each time there is a new line
08:21<Ammler>autopilot does already, just need to make a hook there
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08:36<@peter1138>hmm, where does windows keep its user password file?
08:36<TrueBrain>wasn't that in its keyvault?
08:36<TrueBrain>or was that only the admin pass ..
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08:39<Luukland>Hmmmm I just noticed someone is complaining about a ban on the tt-forums... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46636&hilit=Luukland%27s+Server
08:39<SirSquidness>peter1138: c:\windows\system32\config\sam I believe is the passwords file
08:40<@peter1138>thanks
08:40<@peter1138>Luukland, we don't care about it either ;)
08:40<SirSquidness>or one of the files in there, but I'm pretty sure it's sam
08:41<rait>is there any poing in compiling with DirectMusic support?
08:42<@Rubidium>the other methods don't work on all Windows installs
08:42<+glx>sometimes win32 midi doesn't work
08:49<rait>but as long as there are no music packs it's pretty much pointless?
08:49<CIA-2>OpenTTD: glx * r18934 /trunk/src/sound/win32_s.cpp: -Fix (r18892, r18913): the deadlock should be definitively gone now
08:49<+glx>thanks for the testing rait :)
08:49<@Rubidium>rait: but there's the original music
08:50*Rubidium wonders when we see "-Fix (r18892, r18913, r18934): "
08:50<+glx>[23:48:40] <rait> i'm giving it a green light, seems that it finally is nailed <-- he said "ok" :)
08:50<SpComb^>har har, deadlocks
08:51<+glx>btw WS2008 is not a desktop system ;)
08:51<rait>it is for me :P
08:52<SpComb^>glx: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=851436#p851436 <-- related?
08:52*Rubidium still 'feels' Windows 2000 is better than Windows 7
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08:52<+glx>SpComb^: similar symptom yes
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08:53<Eddi|zuHause>so windows is using pulseaudio nowadays? :p
08:53<rait>i can't comment on the "sound seems to stop after a while" since i don't use ingame sounds. but freezing in the end sound similar (maybe i had a dream about it last night ...)
08:55<SpComb^>I've had that well on my Ubuntu 9.10 laptop... pulseaudio
08:57<TrueBrain>cool, we might get a BG (country) mirror soon :)
08:57<+glx>BG ?
08:57<@Rubidium>bulgaria
08:57<+glx>ha
08:58<SpComb^>if you want a proper mirror in finland, contact nic.funet.fi
08:58<TrueBrain>wasnt someone working for .fi already?
08:58<@Rubidium>no ldo :)
08:58<boekabart>Wouldn't a US and Asian mirror be more useful? (being that the lines within EU are short and fast anyway)
08:58<TrueBrain>we have 1 US
08:58<TrueBrain>and yes, an Asian would be useful
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09:00<lennard>TrueBrain: pro tip: go scout channels of other mirrors
09:00<@Rubidium>well... a .jp, .au, .in and .cn might be useful
09:00<@Rubidium>possibly a .za too
09:00<TrueBrain>lennard: I let that for our community users to do that ;) I am overloaded as it is ;) (so, anyone feels up for that job? :p)
09:00<boekabart>my friend in .cn suggests .hk or .tw
09:00<boekabart>instead of .cn
09:00<lennard>places like #debian-mirrors or #mirrors on irc.mozilla.org
09:01<lennard>right, well, good luck community ;)
09:01<@Rubidium>.hk basically is .cn
09:01<boekabart>lol
09:01<@Rubidium>.tw on the other hand, not quite .cn
09:01<boekabart>what I understood, hk is still very much not .cn
09:01<TrueBrain>tnx lennard :)
09:01<@Rubidium>after all, Hong Kong is part of China
09:01<SirSquidness>Rubidium: .au is not useful - bandwith charges $$$$
09:01<SirSquidness>unless someone donates some.
09:02<@Rubidium>SirSquidness: you mean bandwidth Europe<->Australia costs less than Australia<->Australia?
09:02<SirSquidness>No, just general bandwidth charges within Australia are horrendously expensive
09:02<TrueBrain>LOL! Google wants to verify my account by SMS?! WHAT THE FUCK
09:03<SirSquidness>for the price of getting a few hundred GB in the US, and a TB in Europe, you'll get 50GB in Australia
09:03<SirSquidness>You'd be better off going somewhere south Asia - singapore, Japan or the like I imagine would be cheaper
09:03<@Rubidium>Japan's links are notoriously overcrowded
09:04<SirSquidness>Doesn't surprise me given the percentage of people with 100Mb/s fibre
09:04<@Rubidium>that's why a mirror for binaries in Japan is useful, but using it for e.g. Australia might not be that useful
09:05<TrueBrain>haha
09:05<@Rubidium>although Singapore would probably be a better place
09:05<@Belugas>hello
09:05<@Rubidium>hello .ca
09:05<TrueBrain>I love this irony: you can complain to Google why you can't verify by SMS: "I don't want to give my mobile number to Google" is one of the options
09:05<SirSquidness>That said, we're not downloading gigabytes of information, so speed isn't so much of an issue, just the cost to provide it
09:05<TrueBrain>of course I took that option .. fuck Google ...
09:06<@Rubidium>oh, I waved to the nl. mirror today :)
09:06<SpComb^>http://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/Linux/INSTALL/Debian/pool/contrib/o/openttd/ <-- of course, some of these already indirectly mirror openttd :)
09:06<TrueBrain>very indirect
09:06<@Rubidium>SpComb^: but that's an old version
09:07<@Rubidium>although... probably newer/less vulnerable than Gentoo ;)
09:07<@Rubidium>or Ubuntu
09:08<boekabart>hm, http://www.bt-alliance.com/services/internet/backbone_map_asia.asp
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09:09<rait>okay who here can compile on windows 7?
09:09<Luukland>me me :D
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09:09<rait>installer fails for me
09:09<Luukland>which installer?
09:10<SirSquidness>boekabart: that map is out of date - there's now a link from Sydney AU, Brisbane AU up to Guam where a crapload of Asia -> US links go through
09:10<rait>.NET framework something, ran by visual c++ installer
09:10<Luukland>Ah, yeah, couldnt get it to work on mine also
09:10<Luukland>I tried the msys compiler
09:10<+glx>everything worked well for me
09:11<Luukland>It was stuck on the C++ visual something installing part
09:12<SpComb^>hmm... leave the opntitle.dat savegame running on fast-forward until 2169 at, uh, 31x daylength
09:12<SpComb^>Ledston has shrunk to 80pop
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09:15<SpComb^>altough this with buggy NewGRFs
09:17<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mirror.html
09:17<TrueBrain>I just had to do that
09:21<lennard>heh, that zoom to button is weird
09:21<lennard>it just keeps centering and adding a zoom level
09:21<lennard>rather than jump to a preset zoom level
09:21<TrueBrain>here it works
09:21<TrueBrain>just links are totally fucked
09:22<SpComb^>tsk, abusing the geo lat/long coords they gave you?
09:23<TrueBrain>why abusing?
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>why is it centering on US?
09:24<lennard>because the reason given when asking for them was for geo-balancing purposes
09:24<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: no fucking clue
09:24<lennard>personally, I don't care, but that might be considered abuse, I agree :)
09:26<TrueBrain>fair enough; I will place the markers in the middle of the country then ;)
09:27<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: this piece of software is not really user friendly .. but Google wants to text me before I can activate the account, which I refuse ...
09:27<TrueBrain>ah, there
09:27<TrueBrain>much better :)
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes, give google your phone number... there's no possible way they ever use that against you :p
09:28<TrueBrain>they also just happily announce they store your phone number
09:29<SpComb^>I called microsoft the other day
09:29<lennard>well, since google maintains the contact list for my phone, they could tell I have TrueBrain s number
09:29<lennard>well, except I dont
09:29<SpComb^>or rather, their automated I-want-to-activate-this-copy-of-windows-even-though-the-online-activation-thing-doesnt-let-me robot
09:29<TrueBrain>lennard: one whois, and you will have it; but that is just besides the point :)
09:29<lennard>yeah, same for me
09:30<lennard>but it very much is ;)
09:31<TrueBrain>wow, openttd.org no longer refers to me in any way :) WHOHO!
09:31<TrueBrain>happy dance
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: yeah, i did that a few years ago, too
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: i needed to, because it wouldn't let me set up an internet connection...
09:32<SpComb^>I have the same WS2008R2 .iso installed on two VM's
09:32<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: though Israel and Draijer can be found via openttd.org and DNS/WHOIS
09:33<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how? Nothing should point there anymore
09:33<@Rubidium>paste, dns, reverse whois
09:34<TrueBrain>paste, lol, yes :)
09:34<@Rubidium>or via mx
09:35<TrueBrain>yup
09:35<TrueBrain>that we still haven't moved paste is .. well .. not so nice :p
09:35<TrueBrain>but ... it is such a piece of crap (software wise), that it is better off there :p
09:37<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: one Aalborg for you :)
09:39<TrueBrain>one who can't read ....
09:52<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/icons.png < pointless bling or useful gui hint?
09:52<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i like it
09:53<SirSquidness>agreed, Eddi|zuHause
09:53<Yexo>it's nice :)
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09:57<rait>yeah, looks nice
09:59<@Belugas>canada salutes Rubidium, with the expected lag
09:59<TrueBrain>that was a VERY long roundtrip
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10:04<@Belugas>nice icon work, mister Nelson
10:05<@peter1138>has been possible since the 'new' drop down list code
10:07*SpComb^ ponders whether to play OpenTTD or BF2
10:08<SirSquidness>SpComb^: BF2 is so outdated now. BadCompany2 Beta is released in another 2 hours
10:08<SirSquidness>Play OpenTTD while you still can
10:08<SpComb^>bah, silly new games, no point
10:11*Belugas agrees
10:12<@Belugas>either way, they all come back to TTD at one point, out of boredom. Reality games have this tendancy ^_^
10:14<SirSquidness>It's funny, because its' true ;P
10:18<planetmaker>the endless monotony of reality ;-P
10:18<TrueBrain>you wake up, do stuff, go to sleep, yes, I agree
10:19<planetmaker>as if we hadn't enough of it in RL.
10:20<SpComb^>you wake up, go eat lunch, fiddle around with OpenTTD, and go to sleep \o/
10:20<TrueBrain>I know for a fact that was true for at least one OpenTTD dev for a few weeks :)
10:20<SirSquidness>so many hours of my life... gone...
10:20<SirSquidness>Thank YOU Openttd <3
10:22<@peter1138>so many of mine :s
10:22<TrueBrain>melio rate sneez e pimpe rnel longw ords inher itres s billy cock
10:22<TrueBrain>locat ives pretr eatme nt shink in moonl ighte d hunge ring penta
10:23<TrueBrain>I get this mail twice a week .. still no clue what the user tries to tell me
10:23<SirSquidness>I can make out some words spread across multiple 'words'.. but nothign makes sense
10:24<SirSquidness>I think it's safe to mark it as spam
10:30<SpComb^>de-training your spam filters
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10:36<@Belugas>OpenTTD almost cost me a divorce :P
10:37<SirSquidness>I think Belugas needs to put the crack down for a bit... :P
10:37<lennard>wow... huge maps are huge
10:38<SirSquidness>did lennard just discover 2048*2048 maps?
10:38<lennard>duno
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>if they are so huge, why do people keep asking for huger ones?
10:38<lennard>I clicked the europe scenario :P
10:38<@Belugas>nope, SirSquidness, i'm freaking serious
10:39<SirSquidness>I don't doubt that for a second.
10:39<SirSquidness>I know a few people seriously addicted to the game.
10:39<SirSquidness>You guys put a drug in teh source code or something, I swear
10:40<@Belugas>well... in my case, the drug was the source code ;)
10:40<SirSquidness>aye
10:40<@Belugas>the playing... well.. it was before i touched the source code ^_^
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, the drugs were already there, they only built the source around it
10:40<@Belugas>and it was not as intensive...
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10:54*SpComb^ fights the addiction by switching to BF2
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11:45<lennard>wow, reading up on what path signals are 'just for the heck of it' was really worth it
11:46<lennard>I like em :P
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12:01<@Belugas>grumbling stomac
12:01<@Belugas>tick tock tick tock
12:01<@Belugas>time to feed the monster
12:01<planetmaker>grooooaaar!
12:01*planetmaker now is also hungry
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>lennard is talking like someone who has found the game like yesterday :p
12:02<lennard>just the improvements since the original :P
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12:05<@Belugas>like... quite a few
12:06<lennard>well yeah
12:06<lennard>but how was I to know?
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12:16<Eddi|zuHause>i once was like that, too ;)
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>about 5 years ago ;)
12:17<lennard>yes, well
12:17<lennard>I've been doing more important stuff :P
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12:35<@peter1138>oh, that icons patch: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/railicons.diff
12:37<planetmaker>the one you showed in the font size discussion?
12:37<@peter1138>yeah
12:38<planetmaker>I like it :-)
12:38-!-fjb [~frank@p5485DD0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:39<planetmaker>Road types needs it, too, though
12:40-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
12:40<@peter1138>there are probably more places for it
12:40<@Rubidium>yeah, maybe the company gui can reuse the code
12:40<planetmaker>sure. But that's the most obvious one, if there are icons for rail types :-)
12:41<@Rubidium>uhm, company dropdown list thingy
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12:42<@peter1138>perhaps
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12:43<@Rubidium>although, with the company colour and such it might be tricky
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12:54<Eddi|zuHause>how is that done currently?
12:54-!-Yexo [~Yexo@38-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:54<@Rubidium>bit of non-reusable code
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12:59<@peter1138>it's not a huge amount
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: what is this person doing wrong? http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=4512&pid=61202#pid61202
12:59<@peter1138>there's a DrawCompanyIcon() in there that would have to be change
12:59<@peter1138>d
13:12-!-Cipriann [~cipik97@92.84.53.243] has joined #openttd
13:12<Cipriann>hello
13:12<@Rubidium>hi
13:14<planetmaker>hullo
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13:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r18935 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#3551] (r18764): value of variables 90 and 91 weren't what NARS expects
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18936 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt indonesian.txt spanish.txt vietnamese.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: indonesian - 5 changes by fanioz
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 7 changes by yanok
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 544 changes by myquartz
13:47<planetmaker>hm, I expected a question from Cipriann ;-)
13:49-!-Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:49<@Belugas>you should see the TON of snow that is now falling from the window...
13:49<planetmaker>he... I should somewhen dare to go home, too... but we have a nice snow storm outside...
13:50<@peter1138>right, goin ghom
13:50<@peter1138>right, going home
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>how did the snow get on the window in the first place? :p
13:57<@Belugas>goign ride mister peter
13:58<@Belugas>the wind said "how" to the window
13:58<@Belugas>and the snow followed
13:58<@Belugas>-goign+good
13:58<@Belugas>:S
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14:06<@peter1138>so, er
14:07<@Belugas>damned... that was fast...
14:07<@Belugas>it's that or you never left :)
14:07<@peter1138>well it's 1.7 miles
14:07<@peter1138>it was drissling so i didn't bother with a long route
14:08-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
14:09<@peter1138>er
14:09<@peter1138>drizzling
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14:20<@Belugas>i think i prefer snow over drizzle..
14:20<@Belugas>looks better on the phoos :)
14:20<@Belugas>photos
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>e
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>what? where did that come from?
14:22*Eddi|zuHause looks left and right, then runs away quickly
14:22<@Rubidium>nx?
14:22<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, i've been banned from drinking coffee in the evening ;(
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>hehe ;)
14:23<@Rubidium>luckily there's caffeine in tea
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>drink cola instead ;)
14:23<@peter1138>or anything with caffeine, pedants :s
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>so... i guess no red bull either :p
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14:26<@peter1138>i heard the old man tell his tale
14:27<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18937 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Fix (r15190): TileAddWrap didn't return INVALID_TILE for void tiles at the north border
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14:38<+tokai>hoppla
14:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18938 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Industrylayout's special water tile check did not properly check for crossing north border of map. Also don't consider MP_VOID tiles as water.
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15:02<@Belugas>i fear the young man waving his tale
15:09<frosch123>hmm, tale is not tail, right
15:15<lennard>thats correct, they're not the same :P
15:15<@Belugas>the sane is not the same
15:16<@Belugas>The Tall Tail is Telling a Tale
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>to-tale-ly ;)
15:22<@Belugas>lol!
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>hm... it's nice that the cat learns how to hunt a mouse...
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>but must it be MY MOUSE?!?
15:26<planetmaker>would you be pleased, if it liked to give you one of her hunted mouse as a present and put those onto your keyboard?
15:26-!-Dessous [~DaMan@a88-115-70-173.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>i'm looking forward to that ;)
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>the last cat was less indoor-fixated, so it was unlikely that she came near my keyboard at all...
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>usually she left the trophies in front of the door
15:28-!-mib_z3u2y34pws5z [4d33544e@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>she also didn't learn how to use the cat door, so she always knocked and waited until someone opened
15:28<planetmaker>he... :-)
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15:29<@Belugas>my cat prefers to walk back and forth in between me and the keyboard
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15:29<@Belugas>nice to have that furr in the mouth :S
15:29<@Belugas>and furr she has.... plenty!
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15:32<sawtooth>one of mine likes to sit in front of the monitor so that I look at him instead
15:34<sawtooth>widescreen though so I tend to shuffle the web browser around a bit in order to see it :)
15:34<Alberth>they do know how to train people to get their attention
15:44<fonsinchen>Eddi|zuHause: about that guy ad tt-ms.de - I don't know what's wrong there as there isn't a savegame. You may be right and the bus used to stop at Falkenhaven-Zentrum on the way back. Obviously the link is active somehow.
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15:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r18939 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange [FS#3545]: Move train slope steepness to its own function.
15:55<planetmaker>:-D
15:55<planetmaker>congraz, TheMask96
15:55<@peter1138>o_O
15:55<planetmaker>err... Terkhen
15:55<planetmaker>damn tab completion
15:55<Terkhen>thank you :)
15:56<SpComb^>someone hacked the SVN repo!
15:57<@Belugas>somene deserved the svn repo ;)
15:58<@Belugas><the access to>
16:00<planetmaker>Obviously :-)
16:01<Sacro>someone set us up the bomb?
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't that be "somebody"?
16:04<Sacro>and probably "up us"
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16:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... they write "somebody" but say "someone"
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16:30<lennard>aww, rains cant collide with themselves :(
16:30<lennard>+t
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>that is _not_ a new feature :p
16:31<lennard>I didn't do as much playing around before, I think :P
16:31*frosch123 misses babyottd
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>how did you get that thought
16:33-!-mib_44lgtu [58934aa4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
16:36<SpComb^>funny, I added 300 busses onto a route and the link capacity is still only about 400
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16:39<rait>why are savegames so big?
16:40<+glx>map size?
16:40<@Rubidium>because there is a lot of information in them
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>how big is big?
16:40<@Rubidium>and rait... set the savegame format to none and be amazed how big they really become
16:40<rait>big as in 4.5M
16:40<planetmaker>that's compressed ;-)
16:41<+glx>rait: the nightly exits correctly ?
16:41<rait>real pain to upload to flyspray
16:41<rait>yup
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>rait: that's small for a 2048^2 map
16:41<planetmaker>rait, for testing purposes 2048^2 is not quite the size of choice, indeed ;-)
16:42<rait>i guess i didn't realise europe is so big when downloading the scenario
16:42<rait>btw, is savegame format described somewhere?
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>well it says the size in the download window, right?
16:43<@Belugas>savegame format is not really possible to be documented... it's... quite... complex
16:44<@Belugas>the best docuemntation is the source code
16:44<rait>was afraid of that ...
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>rait: it's a RIFF structure that gets compressed
16:44<rait>RIFF = Resource Interchange File Format?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes
16:46<rait>is it compressed in some standard format?
16:46<@Rubidium>zlib
16:46-!-Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc4-newt30-2-0-cust18.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]]
16:46<@Rubidium>or lzo
16:46<@Rubidium>(if you don't have zlib)
16:47<@Rubidium>(or lzma if you're using my patch)
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>like Rubidium said, you can turn off compression
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>an uncompressed map is 2048*2048*9 byte (about 40MB), plus additional data for towns, industries, vehicles etc
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16:54<rait>would it be considered rude if i would be suggestive in the IRC channel about someone confirming my bugreport? :) (FS#3575)
16:54<PeterT_>does having too many trees on a map cause lag?
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT_: no, tree-handling is O(map size), not O(amount of trees)
16:55<Yexo>rait: not really, but it could be annoying if you did that for every bugreport within a few minutes
16:55<Yexo>give it a day or so and it'll be fixed or you'll be asked for more information
16:55<PeterT_>thanks Eddi|zuHause
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16:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18940 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
16:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Feature: make the crash position of aircraft a bit random by giving aircraft a chance to crash every tick they're breaking.
16:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Slow aircraft will crash a bit less, fast aircraft might crash a bit more
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: he uploaded a savegame now
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17:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18941 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3575]: remove the loading indicators as soon as a train crashes
17:09<rait>thanks
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17:13*SpComb^ has magical busses that can drive through eachother
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>do you remember "road vehicle queueing (with quantum effects)?"
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>in TT occasionally road vehicles could bunch together and get deadlocked (usually in front of a station)
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>the "quantum effects" part resolves those deadlocks by disabling the collision detection for road vehicles
17:16<andythenorth>what are the quantum effects exactly? Can you send two trucks off in opposite directions, then set the speed of one by measuring the other?
17:16<andythenorth>Do they unload discrete amounts when light falls on them?
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no, but they can occupy the same space
17:17<andythenorth>If there's a truck in a box with a radioactive source, is the truck alive or dead?
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>"tunnel through each other"
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17:32<SpComb^>http://qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/screenshots/linkgraph.png
17:32<SpComb^>this is fun
17:33-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BE92.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:33<@Rubidium>doesn't look very hub'n'spoke to me
17:33<SpComb^>it you look closely, it actually follows the topology of the roads pretty well
17:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18942 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature [FS#2678]: add a setting to reduce/disable aircraft crashes
17:35<blathijs>SpComb^: What is it?
17:35<@Rubidium>sprinkles of cd
17:36<SpComb^>'tis my madness
17:36<SpComb^>300 road vehicles without any orders and then just stick random bus stops everywhere
17:36<SpComb^>sadly, it doesn't actually seem to be profitable
17:38<@Rubidium>oh shoot... why do forget so many 'parties'?
17:39<@Rubidium>like yesterday was the 500th day of download statistics
17:40<@Rubidium>11 days ago was the 1 year anniversary of bananas
17:40<@Rubidium>~4 days ago we hit 1 million downloads since the new server
17:40<@Rubidium>yes, average of 2000 downloads/day
17:41<Xaroth>heh
17:42<@Rubidium>for fun of it, the 17th (anniversary of bananas) showed the largest 30 day download average for both bananas and the binaries
17:42<@Rubidium>4000 binaries vs 38000 bananas items
17:43<@Rubidium>bananas already passed 6.5 million downloads
17:43<Xaroth>:o
17:44<Xaroth>nice
17:44-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@79.88.150.158] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
17:44<@Rubidium>which would mean, accounting for the shorter period bananas is live that per downloaded binary 10 bananas items are downloaded
17:45<@Rubidium>and with the mirroring of the binaries in place bananas uses 50% of the main server's bandwidth
17:45<Xaroth>in other words, bananas patch needs to get in asap :P
18:00-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-135-221.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:00<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:00<Terkhen>good night
18:00-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@132.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:01<Nite_Owl>I hope it was not something I typed
18:05<Xaroth>When's the last time you showered? :P
18:07<Nite_Owl>this morning
18:07<@Rubidium>so it's the soap that stinks
18:08<Nite_Owl>well I was at my neighbors doing the geek thing most of the afternoon
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18:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18943 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Feature [FS#2885]: make it possible to change newgame settings from within a game via the console (use setting_newgame instead of setting)
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18:32<SpComb^> Conversion from OTTD savegame without gamelog: version 92, 0
18:32<SpComb^>what does that mean?
18:33<@Rubidium>that there's no logging of game changes etc. from before that load of the savegame
18:33<SpComb^>but what's that "version 92, 0"?
18:33<@Rubidium>and that the savegame version that was loaded was 92
18:33<SpComb^>right
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>0 is the "minor version *DO NOT USE*" bit...
18:33<@Rubidium>and 92 == 0.6
18:36<SpComb^>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=851858#p851858 <-- referring to this game log
18:36<SpComb^>although I guess that in this case, it's loading a savegame that was converted earlier?
18:38-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab86b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:38<@Rubidium>he loaded a 0.6 savegame, then after a while he enabled dynamic engines and added a load of NewGRFs
18:38<@Rubidium>oh, the 0.6 savegame came with the rivers newgrf
18:38<SpComb^>and then saved it, and later when he tries to load it, it crashes?
18:38<Nite_Owl>Does that mean that settings from the console are now written to the .cfg ??
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>Nite_Owl: why would you get that impression?
18:39<Yexo>Nite_Owl: only if you use "setting_newgame <name> <value>" instead of "setting <name> <value>"
18:40<@Rubidium>SpComb^: then I think it happens between clicking and resetting the game state/loading the other game
18:40<Yexo>"newgame settings" = "settings that are saved in the config file"
18:40<Nite_Owl>I only ask because of something similar I posted about on The Forum about an hour ago
18:40<@Rubidium>but without a dmp+pdb+exe there's not much that can be gathered from that
18:40<@Rubidium>the crash cause is a segmentation fault though
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18:45<Nite_Owl>So basically if you use the "setting_newgame" command it will change the behavior in the current game and in the .cfg
18:46<@Rubidium>no, the current game won't be influenced
18:47<Nite_Owl>Okay - this comes up a lot with the resetting of wait times at signals to 255
18:47<Yexo>if you use "setting <name> <value>" while you're in the main menu you change the config value (but that behavior didn't change)
18:48<@Rubidium>SpComb^: there is a tool that can give you a clue about the crash location based on the location given in the crash log; it requires the .exe or .pdb (don't know which) and I don't know how it's called
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>when it says "loaded old savegame with rivers.grf" then i guess it's a scenario
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause>but that likely doesn't add much to the diagnosis ;)
18:49<PeterT>thanks yexo
18:49<PeterT>for svn r18941
18:49<SpComb^>Rubidium: I think I'll just wait for a .sav or .dmp
18:49<@Rubidium>I do know that it's installed in one of the Windows VMs I "got", but I don't have access to the VMs
18:49<PeterT>*r18942
18:49<@Rubidium>so can't give the name
18:49<Nite_Owl>Need to feed - later all
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18:49<@Rubidium>I know it was a set of source files from MS' site that you had to compile yourself
18:50<PeterT>Terkhen is an Openttd dev now?!
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18:50<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that's certainly plausible
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>also, it took him 43 ticks to hit the pause button ;)
18:51<@Rubidium>SmatZ: would it be possible to detect scenarios and log that? Like no companies means it must be a scenario, although in the case of a scenario with some stupid AI that won't help
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18:52<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: can't it remember whether it was started by the "load game" or "play scenario" buttons?
18:52<@Rubidium>could in theory
18:52<Yexo>it already does
18:52<Yexo>only not for old scenarios/savegames
18:52<@Rubidium>although rename .sav to .scn or vice versa and... well, you're screwed
18:53<@Rubidium>although you won't prevent that with my 'trick'
18:53<Yexo>you'll see a "game mode changed" if you load a scenario file that's made in a version that supports the gamelog
18:58<+glx>[00:48:28] <@Rubidium> SpComb^: there is a tool that can give you a clue about the crash location based on the location given in the crash log; it requires the .exe or .pdb (don't know which) and I don't know how it's called <-- crashfinder (but it's hard to find)
18:58<+glx>easier to load the dmp in MSVC :)
18:59<SpComb^>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=851881#p851881
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19:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18944 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Change [FS#3232]: use the highest version of an AI that can load the AI data from a savegame instead of the exact same version
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19:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18945 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp economy_type.h table/pricebase.h): -Codechange: typo
19:12<SpComb^>although hmm, how can that even work
19:15<SpComb^>I guess it just ends up reverting to the old behaviour... send the pax tothe next hop :(
19:15<SpComb^>i.e. the pax don't actually go anywhere
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19:29<PeterT>what is the command for help with make bundle_*?
19:30<Yexo>"make help"
19:30<PeterT>thanks
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19:30<PeterT>make: *** No rule to make target `help'. Stop
19:30<Yexo>did you ./configure first?
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19:31<PeterT>I'm entering the wrong commands, then
19:31<PeterT>i tried make bundle instead of make -f makefile.msvc bundle platform==win32
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19:57<Bluelight>nn
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20:03<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18946 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix: it was possible to change AI settings without changing to the custom difficulty level by using the query text window
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21:52<roboboy>is trying to apply a patch to trunk from a month ago likely to cause issues?
21:53<Eddi|zuHause>yes?
21:57<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: this is a useless question, as it depends heavily on the kind of patch...
21:59<roboboy>a GUI patch?
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22:02<Eddi|zuHause>as long as it's using the new gui, it should be fine
22:03<+glx>were all the GUI rewrites finished a month ago?
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think so, yes
22:03<+glx>hmm right for beta it was done
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>more than 3 months might get you in trouble
22:04<roboboy>ok
22:04<roboboy>lets see if the patch I found compiles
22:07<roboboy>nopes
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 29 00:00:09 2010