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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-29

---Logopened Fri Jan 29 00:00:09 2010
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01:40<Terkhen>good morning
02:13<@peter1138>morning
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03:15<Zuu>Yexo: What is the point of forcing version match -1 (last version) "config->ChangeAI(argv[1], -1, true); " in console_cmds.cpp - line 1055?
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03:21<Zuu>Hmm, so you can write "<ai name>.<ai version>" in the console and then the force-flag make AIScanner::FindInfo to parse the string into two parts.
03:22<Zuu>And if that version isn't found it picks the last available.
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03:48<Zuu>Yexo: I hope you don't mind me creating a forum topic regarding your new feature.
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04:05<planetmaker>does he have a chance? :-D
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04:06<Zuu>planetmaker: He is a moderator so he can remove the topic afterwards :-)
04:06<planetmaker>:-) True. But he's far to kind to remove that kind of topic ;-)
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04:07<Zuu>hehe, yea I figured he probably wouldn't mind it.
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04:07<planetmaker>he.... today's one is nice: http://xkcd.com/695/
04:08<Zuu>hehe
04:09<Zuu>Ouch, putting the coffe in after the water isn't a good idea as you easily get too much :-)
04:10<Forked>poor little thing :\
04:17-!-bartaway is now known as bartavelle
04:20<bartavelle>yo
05:26<roboboy>hello
05:28<__ln__>bartavelle: away nicks are so 90's
05:30<@peter1138>planetmaker, it's sad
05:33<__ln__>it is
05:36<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you are right ;)
05:36<bartavelle>i'm old what can i say
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05:44<SpComb^>we need a "Get Spirit Home" campaign
05:44<TrueBrain>they had one ... any idea what they tried to get it unstuck?
05:45<SpComb^>no, like a back to earth
05:45<SpComb^>fundraising concerts and donation drives
05:45<@peter1138>that would need a lot of fundraising
05:45<SpComb^>quite!
05:46<SpComb^>"150€ of 1200000000€ raised"
05:47<@peter1138>probably more than €1.2 billion
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06:36<lennard>coffee after.... thats not coffee, you barbaric... something!
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07:15<Zuu>lennard: There are quite good instant coffee variants and there is really bad ones too.
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>you need a waay bigger rocket to return from mars than to return from moon...
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07:18<Eddi|zuHause>especially the amount of rocket fuel you have to bring with you...
07:19<planetmaker>delta v sucks
07:19<planetmaker>sucks fuel like hell :-P
07:21<TrueBrain>lol @ planetmaker
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07:53<Eddi|zuHause>well _someone_ could have made smaller planets :p
07:55<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Hey, we just built it to the specs the mice gave us.
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>you could have waited a year and the tech would have been half as big :p
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07:57<Prof_Frink>It was overbudget and overdue already, they couldn't wait any longer.
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09:04<@Belugas>hello
09:05<TrueBrain>hello Belugas :)
09:09<@Belugas>hey TrueBrain!
09:12<TrueBrain>how is the old man doing this day? :)
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09:16<Eddi|zuHause># Lebt denn der alte Holzmichel noch
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>omg. bad song. go away.
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09:36<@peter1138>http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/c3/IPad.jpg
09:36<@peter1138>(SFW)
09:37<Prof_Frink>peter1138: There is no iPad. What apple have *actually* developed is a shrink-ray.
09:49<SpComb^>hmm... the GlobalCargoAcceptance::inst object is somehow getting corrupted
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09:59<Luukland>Mr. Rubidium? May I query you?
09:59<__ln__>Luukland: you didn't say "Sir".
09:59<TrueBrain>why does that question only allow one reply? Hmmm
10:00<Eddi|zuHause>in theoretical computer science, we call that "undecidable" :p
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>it gets even more funny if you consider The List :p
10:02<@Belugas>TrueBrain, 'm fne, just.. busy, as always :)
10:02<@Belugas>meeting just ends
10:02<SpComb^>hmm, gdb segfaults
10:03<SpComb^>hark, the saveload code is corrupting the GlobalCargoAcceptance::inst object
10:03<db48x>did you debug it to find out why?
10:04<SpComb^>heh, no, it was me trying to print something silly
10:04<db48x>ah
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10:04*SpComb^ prods fonsinchen
10:04<SpComb^>this is inside linkgrap_sl :(
10:06<SpComb^>hrmph, I don't know how the saveload code works
10:06<db48x>cargo distribution patch?
10:06<SpComb^>my builds
10:06<SpComb^>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=851907#p851907
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10:07<db48x>ah, cool
10:08<Luukland>Belugas? May I query you then, if Rubi is not here...
10:09<Yexo>Luukland: as before, just ask whatever you want to ask. Don't ask to ask
10:10<SpComb^>hmm... SlArray should never overwrite a object's member pointer value itself?
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10:11<SpComb^>http://paste.openttd.org/221091 <-- is there perhaps something immediately wrong here?
10:13<SpComb^>seems SLArray has length=32 and mem_size=4 here
10:13<SpComb^>whereas the CargoArray is 32 bytes
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10:15<TrueBrain>Luukland is and always will be a weirdo ...
10:15<SpComb^>so it seems it's writing 32 U32's to a 32 U8 array?
10:16<Yexo>SpComb^: not sure, but it looks wrong indeed
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10:16<SpComb^>NUM_CARGO = 32, struct CargoArray { uint amount[NUM_CARGO]; }
10:16<SpComb^>so myes
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10:19<@peter1138>where are you getting U8 from?
10:20<Yexo>GlobalCargoAcceptance is missing a destructor though
10:20<Yexo>that is a bug
10:20<SpComb^>well, that's cleanup-at-shutdown :)
10:20<Yexo>yes ;)
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10:25<SpComb^>nasty bug to debug, but hardware watchpoints for global variables are awesome :)
10:29<SpComb^>although, wtf, I see what peter1138 was saying now
10:29<SpComb^>it's a 64-bit bug?
10:29<Yexo>if sizeof(uint) > 4 then yes
10:30<SpComb^>funky
10:32<SpComb^> SLE_UINT = SLE_UINT32,
10:32<SpComb^>tsk
10:33<SpComb^>what's `uint` defined as?
10:33<Yexo>dunno, check stdafx.h
10:36<SpComb^>src/stdafx.h: typedef unsigned int uint;
10:41<SpComb^>but I'm a little confused, why would loading 32-bit uints from the file into the array with 64-bit uints overflow it
10:45<SpComb^>oh right, sizeof (int) == 4 even on 64-bit platforms
10:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18947 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp newgrf_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#1510]: after clicking move up/move down in the newgrf/ai the selected item could be out of range
10:49<SpComb^>oh, it's just plain treating the CargoArray * itself as a 32-element array?
10:49<Yexo>yes
10:50<SpComb^>indeed
10:51<@peter1138>it's loading 32 * 32bit uints into 32 * 32bit uints
10:51<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18948 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: removing a newgrf from the list didn't update the scrollbar
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10:51<SpComb^>peter1138: no, it's loading 32 * 32-bit uints into a 64-bit pointer, it seems
10:52<@peter1138>why do you say that?
10:53<SpComb^>602 case SLE_VAR_U32: *(uint32*)ptr = val; break;
10:53<SpComb^>(gdb) p ptr
10:53<SpComb^>$37 = (void *) 0xd17860
10:53<SpComb^>(gdb) p &GlobalCargoAcceptance::inst
10:53<SpComb^>$38 = (GlobalCargoAcceptance *) 0xd17860
10:53<@peter1138>ah yes, SLE_CONDARR wants a static array
10:53<SpComb^>or more accurately, &GlobalCargoAcceptance::inst.acceptance -> (CargoArray **) 0xd17860, but it's the same pointer value
10:54<@peter1138>why does it even allocate that?
10:54<SpComb^>questionable
10:54<@peter1138>CargoArray acceptance;
10:54<SpComb^>indeed
10:54<@peter1138>CargoArray current_tile_loop
10:54<@peter1138>then remove the constrctor
10:59<SpComb^>need to think straight when reading the saveload code
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11:06<SpComb^>fonsinchen: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=851991#p851991
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11:10<fonsinchen>uh, interesting ...
11:11<fonsinchen>thanks for the report. What is it doing there?
11:11<SpComb^>it's loading the GlobalCargoAcceptance data from the savegame
11:11<fonsinchen>ah, I see
11:11<@peter1138>just get rid of the pointers and the constructor
11:11<SpComb^>you should consider changing the CargoArray *'s to just plain static CargoArray objects, it should work then
11:11<fonsinchen>I have to derefer that pointer before loading/saving
11:12<fonsinchen>yes, it's probably better; Swap will be slower then, but it doesn't matter so much
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11:33<@Belugas>ho so NOT fun... 3 colleagues drooling to the point of nausea on the iPad...
11:34<@Belugas>makes me feel sick
11:34<TrueBrain>the name alone ... I have to laugh every time I read it
11:34<TrueBrain>how did it went in the Apple office: "Guys, how to name this new product?" - "iPad!" - "GENIOUS! HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THAT! WE TAKE IT! IT IS PERFECT!"
11:34<@Belugas>yeah.. every 28 days, the screen goes red
11:34<[Jako]>perfect platform to play openttd :)
11:34<[Jako]>if it had buttons
11:35<[Jako]>and if you actually could install openttd into it
11:35*lobster does radio at http://radio.zernebok.com:8080/
11:35<[Jako]>apple says, denied
11:35<lobster>an eclectic music mix, for all
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11:49<SpComb^>fonsinchen: give me a heads-up once you push a fix, so I can do a new build
11:49<SpComb^>(doesn't one love this lingo?)
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>yay... process is using 240% CPU \o/ :p
11:50<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: how many CPUs?
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>4
11:50<SpComb^>normal then
11:50<@peter1138>he's just showing off
11:50<fonsinchen>I already have a fix. I'm just merging it all together. Might take a minute or two
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>but the noise...
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'm really going to send it back...
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>but before that, i'm doing all my video converting jobs that were left around :p
11:52<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: who did you buy it from?
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>some company who offered it on ebay
11:53<SpComb^>huh
11:53<SpComb^>sounds like a worse idea than just buying the bits yourself
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>it's a commercial offer, so they have to take it back...
11:54<SpComb^>eBay doesn't really say much in terms of any induvidual seller's reputation to me
11:57<fonsinchen>I should have bought a faster CPU ...
11:57<fonsinchen>Or I should rework my merging/test-compiling makefile
12:01<SpComb^>you test-build each merge separately?
12:03<fonsinchen>yes. I can switch it off, but generally it shows problems better than just the merging
12:03<fonsinchen>it's all automated with my "gitmake"-Script
12:04<SpComb^>yes, I was reading that (it's in your git repo)
12:04<SpComb^>good use of make
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12:10<fonsinchen>SpComb^: I've pushed it
12:18*SpComb^ powers up his VM
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12:23<SpComb^>should install openssh onto my VM and then integrate that into some nice makefile...
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12:34<SpComb^>post'd
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12:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18949 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18942): 'reduced plane crashes' were actually 'more plane crashes'
12:58<Yexo>TrueBrain: openttd.org (all pages) gives a 500 Internal server error
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12:59<TrueBrain>Yexo: let me check
12:59<Yexo>opendune.org too btw :p
12:59<SpComb^>broke'd
13:00<SpComb^>paste.openttd.org still works :)
13:00<Yexo>paste is a different server
13:00<SpComb^>quite
13:00<@Belugas>burp
13:03-!-Singaporekid [~notme@cm118.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:03<TrueBrain>some lameass is hammering the httpd
13:03<@Belugas>can you fire back?
13:03<TrueBrain>and for some reason my iptable rule doesn't want to do its job
13:04<TrueBrain>there are just 1000 connections open to lighttpd :p
13:04<TrueBrain>nginx is doing its job .. the other httpds are failing :p
13:04-!-welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Quit: welshdragon]
13:05<SpComb^>for what content?
13:06<TrueBrain>some kind of spider
13:06<TrueBrain>badly programmed
13:06<TrueBrain>he requested 130k pages in 2 hours
13:06<SpComb^>a user-agent?
13:06<TrueBrain>conflicting data .. Mozilla, but MSIE
13:07<TrueBrain>good to see the binaries load balancer did its work perfectly under stress too :)
13:08-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
13:08<TrueBrain>haha, it was spidering all the different languages :) LOL!
13:10<TrueBrain>I wonder if it is worth the time to figure out why nginx started to stop working for other httpds while waiting for some httpds to reply ..
13:10<TrueBrain>in other words, if it should limit the amount of connections to a httpd in order to preserve functionality
13:12<TrueBrain>IP from China, lol
13:12<Alberth>building their own google
13:13<TrueBrain>dunno .. how ever it might be, it is a single IP with only httpd requests ..
13:13<TrueBrain>all pages should work again btw
13:14<SpComb^>I had to do a little robots.txt tuning after I got 500k hits from google in a week
13:14<Alberth>may just as easily be a single person running a mirror script
13:14<TrueBrain>SpComb^: we have very strict robots.txt, but this user was ignoring that
13:15<SpComb^>googlebot was following all of the per-line links in the irclogs..
13:15<TrueBrain>our whole binaries are offlimits for any bot, for example
13:18<TrueBrain>lol ... 16MiB of http requests after the block ...
13:18<TrueBrain>264k requests
13:18<TrueBrain>in what .. 10 minutes? :p
13:19<@Rubidium>that's more than the previous time
13:20<TrueBrain>300k
13:20<TrueBrain>so ... 15k per minute?
13:20<TrueBrain>@calc 15000 / 60
13:20<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 250
13:20<TrueBrain>that is a nice rate ...
13:21-!-Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT]
13:21<planetmaker>lol @ r18949
13:21<TrueBrain>I am not _that_ suprised our httpds could not serve pages at that rate ;)
13:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18950 /trunk/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/settings.cpp): -Fix: make sure the values of settings loaded from a savegame are valid
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13:38<TrueBrain>whoho, he stopped trying
13:43-!-woldemar [~world@213.178.34.57] has quit [Quit: ですは滑稽じゃないです。 私は本気です。]
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>that guy has a very suspect quitmessage :p
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r18951 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 8 changes by ReisRyos
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 changes by Yexo
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 4 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
13:52<@Belugas>he's the culprit!
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>http://tissi.apina.biz/full/26453.jpg
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13:56<Bluelight>Damn, I can't find my server in the server list again..
13:57<Bluelight>The serverwindow say "advertising on master server successful"
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>the list might take a few minutes to refresh
14:02<TrueBrain>I wonder if he has a chinese IP .. :p
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, you have geo-ip :)
14:06-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbaa6a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:10<TrueBrain>@calc 574343 / 24 / 60 / 60
14:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 6.64748842593
14:10<TrueBrain>almost 7 hits per second our httpd handles in normal situations :)
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>so it was only out by 3500%? :p
14:26<TrueBrain>nginx can handle up to 1024 connections
14:26<TrueBrain>lighttpd stops after 50 connections
14:27<TrueBrain>there is an issue :p
14:27<TrueBrain>and the nginx backoff algorithm seems less than optimal :p
14:30-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1C90B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:32-!-Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-41-158.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:32<Bluelight>Still nothing.. turned off my firewall, maybe that will help..
14:32<Bluelight>But why does it say it advertised successfully and then not show up?
14:32<TrueBrain>else advertise again :)
14:32<Bluelight>Shouldnt there be an error message or something?
14:32-!-welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd
14:32<TrueBrain>because after advertising, your server is queried. If that works, it shows up
14:33-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:33<Bluelight>Yeah I see a lot of numbers..
14:33<Bluelight>dbg: [net] [udp] quered from 'bla.bla.bla.bla'
14:34<TrueBrain>then you are on the list :)
14:34<Bluelight>Why can't I see it on the website list then? Weird..
14:34<TrueBrain>IP?
14:34<Bluelight>80.203.77.216
14:35<Bluelight>Please don't hack me or anything.. :p
14:35<jonty-comp>aww
14:35<TrueBrain>yes, we hack you immediatly
14:35<Bluelight>I know where you live. Muahahaha!!
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like you can't see the IP by a simple /whois
14:36<Bluelight>Ohh.. bugger..
14:37<Bluelight>So if you are on IRC you get more of a trarget for hackers?
14:37<TrueBrain>server_id 25714, last online: today 18:43 (UTC)
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why is copying over smb on a 100mbit connection only 6MB/s?
14:37<TrueBrain>last advertisement received: 19:30 (UTC)
14:38<Bluelight>And what is the time now?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>19:38 UTC
14:38<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: your fs keeps room for additional traffic :p
14:38<Bluelight>Where do you see this stufF?
14:38<TrueBrain>I have a magic ball
14:38<Bluelight>He he..
14:38<Bluelight>Crystal ball.. :)
14:38<TrueBrain>either way .. try re-advertising, make sure you allow:
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>and it's not broken for once?
14:38<TrueBrain>@openttd port
14:38<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>wow.
14:39<Alberth>TrueBrain comes prepared :)
14:39<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I bought 100 of them last time .. hoped that would solve the issue
14:39<Bluelight>He he..
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>you could use the working one to increase the probability of finding another working one!
14:40-!-welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Quit: welshdragon]
14:40<Bluelight>Whats error 10054?
14:41<TrueBrain>http://support.ipswitch.com/kb/WSK-19980714-EM01.htm
14:41<TrueBrain>(google is such a powerful tool!)
14:42<TrueBrain>either way, the port is open, but there is no OpenTTD server replying to requests of the updater
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14:47<Bluelight>I'm still unable to find on that server list page.. :p
14:47<TrueBrain>yes, because the updater can't find your game
14:47<Bluelight>Ohh.. Why not?
14:47<@peter1138>19:42 < TrueBrain> either way, the port is open, but there is no OpenTTD server replying to requests of the updater
14:48<Bluelight>Do I have to join the game first?
14:48<Bluelight>How is that possible? The game is working.. :p
14:49<TrueBrain>are you running an unmodified version?
14:49<TrueBrain>as you are sending invalid data back to the updater
14:49<TrueBrain>so either what ever is on port 3979 is not an OpenTTD server, or you have a modified version
14:51<@Belugas>or you have a modified version of something that is not OpenTTD server
14:51<Bluelight>Ehh.. I just have OpenTTD 0.7.5
14:52<Bluelight>No modifications.. other then the config file..
14:52<TrueBrain>this is all I can tell you. The updater contacts your server, gets some weird reply, marks your server as offline, and tries again some minutes later to repeat the process
14:52*Belugas would look at the port forwarding
14:52<TrueBrain>given the amount of online 0.7.5 servers, it has to be a local issue
14:53<Bluelight>I heard something about the server not working on a network with several computers connected on LAN..
14:53<TrueBrain>complete bullshit; if you configured your NAT (port forwarding) correctly, it is not an issue
14:53<planetmaker>TrueBrain: "If" ;-)
14:53<TrueBrain>if you did that wrong, or you received another IP or what ever from your (then broken) router, things break
14:53<planetmaker>So... only bullshit, if there's bullshit around. :-P
14:54<planetmaker>err.. ...no bullshit around...
14:54<TrueBrain>planetmaker: well, I can configure NATs to fuck up when you connect multiple computers, so yeah, there is something in it .. still it is bullshit :)
14:54<@Belugas>so in these situations, you'd better cover up your ass(es)
14:54<@Belugas>hohohoh
14:54<planetmaker>he :-)
14:55<Bluelight>Hmm.. Maybe my local IP has changed but I doubt it..
14:55<Bluelight>No, it's still 10.0.0.2
14:56<Bluelight>But the port should be open since I get query's and advertised successfully message?
14:56<TrueBrain>well, you see a query, you don't see what you reply on it ;)
14:56<planetmaker>hm... might there be issues, if you have computers in your LAN which all want to connect to a local server, thus all connect to the same global IP?
14:56<planetmaker>e.g. port-forwarding may only work for one machine
14:57<TrueBrain>planetmaker: it should only work for one machine :)
14:57<TrueBrain>you manual push a hole in your firewall on the router, allowing traffic to travel to one machine
14:57<Bluelight>No, you specify wich IP in the NAT config..
14:57<TrueBrain>unless you use that upnp bullshit
14:57<TrueBrain>then all hope is lost :)
14:57<planetmaker>yeah. So two clients and a server in the local LAN, connected via NAT to the I-Net...
14:57<TrueBrain>(in which case, planetmaker, you are btw right, and the story Bluelight heard is right ;))
14:58<planetmaker>... might turn out bad :-)
14:58<TrueBrain>only if the NAT fucks up ;)
14:58<planetmaker>:-)
14:58<TrueBrain>(I run for the last 10 years setups like that, never an issue :))
14:58<Bluelight>So I should get a better ruter+
14:58<Bluelight>+=?
14:58<TrueBrain>Bluelight: I can't look in your home, so I have no clue
14:58<TrueBrain>for all I know, the solution is very simple; I am just a poor sysop :)
14:59<TrueBrain>I can only trace our end. I see a signal going out to your machine, I see the message: invalid server response. Then my trace stops :)
14:59<Bluelight>I think open port and forword port is the same thing, right?
14:59<TrueBrain>nope; an open port can be local
15:00<Ammler>nmap tells the port is filtered, what does that mean?
15:00<TrueBrain>that it is closed; nmap from openttd.org tells it is open
15:01<TrueBrain>but that is TCP. UDP is a different story ;)
15:02<Ammler>3978/udp open|filtered unknown
15:02<TrueBrain>Ammler: ppssstt .. 3979 ;)
15:02<TrueBrain>3978 is only outbound
15:03<Ammler>well, same for both, tried that too
15:03<TrueBrain>you can't check UDP ports
15:04<Bluelight>Well my ruter has no option for UDP, it opens both I think.. And there is no way to forward port other then opening them, and I opened all ports, lol
15:05<TrueBrain>euh ... you always have to forward a port, or give an IP where the opened port should be routed too
15:05<Bluelight>Yeah It says port opened for 10.0.0.2
15:05<TrueBrain>crappy router, if it names it like that :p
15:05<Bluelight>Open all ports 10.0.0.2
15:05<TrueBrain>but that can still be outgoing .. owh .. what am I doing .. I don't know anything about local routers
15:06<TrueBrain>I only deal with bigger hardware :)
15:06<Ammler>the forward thing might be called something like services for games or such
15:06<Bluelight>Virtual server?
15:07<Bluelight>Also, OpenTTD is not in the gamelist @ http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/ZyXEL/Prestige660RU-T3/Prestige660RU-T3index.htm
15:08<Bluelight>Thats my router by the way..
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15:09<Ammler>Bluelight: but maybe something like "custom"
15:09<TrueBrain>follow, say, Worms 3D or what ever, and fill in 3979 instead of the ports mentioned
15:10<Terkhen>my router has a list of games (already ancient when I got the router) that I never use and a custom server option
15:10<Ammler>or change openttd port to the game port it supports...
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15:14<PeterT>Hello
15:14<PeterT>Terkhen here?
15:14<Terkhen>yes
15:14<TrueBrain>hide Terkhen, we cover for you
15:14<TrueBrain>too late ...
15:15<PeterT>when did you become an OpenTTD developer?
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15:15<TrueBrain>concratz btw Terkhen :) Almost forgot saying that :)
15:15<Alberth>2 years ago
15:15<Terkhen>thank you TrueBrain ;)
15:16<TrueBrain>now you have to explain your actions to PeterT of course, but you understand that :)
15:16<Bluelight>Ok I used a software thingy from portforward.com, and it say that UDP 3979 is open..
15:17<Terkhen>PeterT: for a long time already, I just forgot to commit anything until 23 hours ago
15:18<Terkhen>:P
15:18<PeterT>really?
15:18<PeterT>wow
15:19<PeterT>So why do you submit patches on the dev forum
15:19<PeterT>why not just commit them
15:19<Alberth>testing of course
15:19-!-snorre_ is now known as snorre
15:19<@Belugas>needed to gaion some confidence first...
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15:22<Terkhen>patches are like wine, they need a lot of time to get really good
15:22<PeterT>what about some of your simple and useful patches?
15:23<jonty-comp>wine the drink or wine the software? :P
15:23<PeterT>like close-middle-click
15:23-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
15:23<Alberth>look at yexo, another dev trying out the newgrf airports before he commits the change
15:23<@Belugas>after some times, a dev knows what to commit and what not to commit
15:23<Terkhen>not all platforms have a middle mouse click
15:23<TrueBrain>PeterT: how about you give the man a break, and do not suck him dry on his irst day?
15:24<Terkhen>also, I don't think everyone would agree on giving the middle mouse that role
15:24<Terkhen>don't worry TrueBrain, I was expecting this :P
15:26<TrueBrain>and your replies show me you will survive in this community ;) :)
15:26<jonty-comp>hehe
15:26<Bluelight>What is wrong if the port is open and forwarded?
15:26<Terkhen>:)
15:26<jonty-comp>Bluelight: firewall on your pc?
15:26<jonty-comp>could be any number of things
15:26<Bluelight>No
15:26<jonty-comp>even ISP filtering
15:27<Bluelight>I have a program here from portforward.com, and it say that UDP 3979 is open..
15:28<TrueBrain>Bluelight: as I said: something is replying on the port, but it is giving faulty information
15:29<Bluelight>How is that possible? Argh!
15:29<jonty-comp>with the internet, anything is possible
15:29<Bluelight>He he..
15:31<Bluelight>Is it possible to get corrupted information after adding scripts and modifying config file?
15:32<Bluelight>I mean faulty data..
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>hm... anyone knows how to make and iterate lists in javascript?
15:37<TrueBrain>Bluelight: by any chance you have some heavy traffic running? Torrent?
15:37<PeterT>does this: if (!config->HasAI()) { IConsoleWarning("Failed to load the specified AI");
15:37<Bluelight>Nope, nothing..
15:38<PeterT>translate to "if we don't have an AI present, say 'Failed to load the specified AI'"?
15:38<TrueBrain>Bluelight: my last suggestion will be: shut down your server for 15 minutes or so, and try again
15:39<Yexo>PeterT: approximatly yes
15:39<Bluelight>I think it might be some script..
15:39<Yexo>more like "If there is no AI configured for this slot, say...."
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15:41<Bluelight>Only script I'm using is: on_server_connect.scr
15:41<Bluelight># Show a MOTD
15:41<Bluelight>say "Welcome..."
15:41<Bluelight>So that can't be the problem..
15:41<PeterT>thanks, yexo
15:41<PeterT>I was looking at your recent changes
15:42<Alberth>Bluelight: if you want to know for sure, run a plain openttd program without any other stuff first
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15:49<andythenorth>hi hi
15:50<Alberth>hi andythenorth
15:59<Sevalecan>I know a guy who used to call himself "Albareth"
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16:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18952 /trunk/src/ (saveload/saveload.h settings.cpp): -Fix (r18950): loading recent (=newer then title game) savegames failed
16:12<SpComb^>moar tests
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16:14<Zuu>Terkhen: Congratz to the write access. :-)
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16:20<Terkhen>thank you Zuu :)
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16:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18953 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
16:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Feature: [NoAI] allow editing AI settings while an AI is running
16:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: Only settings with the AICONFIG_INGAME flag can be editted in this way
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16:59<TrueBrain> lalala
16:59<@Rubidium>pom-te-pom
16:59<TrueBrain>go install your laptop
16:59<__ln__>those might be copyrighted songs and riaa will sue you.
16:59<@Rubidium>yeah, installing xerver-xorg-input-all now
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17:11<@Rubidium>syncing my home directory now :)
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17:26<PeterT>sorry I bugged all of you before
17:26<PeterT>Congratulations on becoming a dev, Terkhen
17:26<Terkhen>thank you PeterT
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17:29<TrueBrain>wow .. people still surprise me :)
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17:30<TrueBrain>(was a positive remark btw ;))
17:31<PeterT>TrueBrain
17:31<PeterT>Would you unblock me from DorpsGek
17:31<PeterT>please
17:31<PeterT>So I can use @seen in privmsg
17:32<TrueBrain>I had too many complaints, so no. I am not in the habbit to play moderator on an IRC bot. Maybe next month again
17:32<PeterT>Ok
17:32<PeterT>Thanks for a quick reply, anyway
17:33<__ln__>PeterT: wtf did you have to do to get ignored by a bot?
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17:34<planetmaker>__ln__: highlight everybody by using @seen exessively (my bet)
17:34<TrueBrain>and the money goes to .... planetmaker! :)
17:35<planetmaker>wwooooo! :-D
17:35<__ln__>awesome
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17:38*SpComb^ wonders if too little thought has been given to the matter of merging cargodist into trunk, or if he's just missed all the discussion because it was ages ago
17:39<SpComb^>there's something a little wrong with having a 71-page topic for a patchset/feature
17:39<@Rubidium>you probably missed the discussion
17:41-!-DaleStan [~Dale@c-24-12-4-37.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:42<TrueBrain>SpComb^: I guess there is something wrong with the patchset/feature too ;)
17:43-!-Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-156.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
17:43<Nite_Owl>Hello all
17:43<TrueBrain>morning Nite_Owl
17:44<Nite_Owl>Hello TrueBrain
17:44-!-welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:45<__ln__>what's the status of finding distributable music?
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17:47<@Rubidium>SpComb^: the threading in cargodist and the hiccups (as described in the thread) worry me, also the 'performance improvements' stuff did (more or less) show that it wasn't tested very good
17:48<@Rubidium>it's N% faster when that's only the case which many many of his patches applied and a simple other way of doing it is even faster and simpler
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18:02<Terkhen>good night
18:02-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@132.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>my experience of cargodist is that it gets very slow when the minimap is showing the link graph
18:07<TrueBrain>night all
18:07<Nite_Owl>later TrueBrain
18:11<planetmaker>night TrueBrain
18:11<planetmaker>and also good night all :-)
18:12<Nite_Owl>later planetmaker <although a bit late>
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18:29<Luukland>Guys is the price of building on desert connected with the price of building on rocks?
18:32<Yexo>no, it's the same as building on rough grass tiles
18:35<Luukland>ah ok, indeed, my bad, stuppid error I made messing up ID's
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18:54<CIA-2>OpenTTD: smatz * r18954 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.h: -Fix (r18952): missing 'inline'
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18:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18955 /trunk/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [NoAI] introduce GetBuildCost functions in several classes to get easier cost estimations before you start building
18:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r18956 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Update: NoAI changelog
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19:40<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: you can pause the game while viewing the link graph, and it's fine :)
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: that's not the point...
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19:41<SpComb^>well, it does say something
19:42<SpComb^>redrawing the link graph every tick is too slow
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19:43<Eddi|zuHause>there's a "redraw minimap after X ticks" constant, you know...
19:43<dragonhorseboy>hey
19:44<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: ah well, not the time of day to discuss details..
19:45<fonsinchen>what's the problem with minimap and link graph?
19:45<SpComb^>fonsinchen: lags up the game far worse than the normal view
19:46<fonsinchen>Yes, I know.
19:46<fonsinchen>There's much more it has to do, though.
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: each time i open the link graph i hear the fan speeding up and the game gets really sluggish
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19:47<fonsinchen>The calculation of aggregate flows and plans for a link is quite expensive
19:47-!-GT [~eric@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: if it's so expensive to calculate, cache the variables for display somewhere
19:48<fonsinchen>Maybe I should.
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19:49<fonsinchen>But I won't get around the "FOR_ALL_STATIONS" / for all links in from station part.
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19:49<SpComb^>but it isn't really such a critical thing, reading the linkgraph is pretty much an off-line activity for me..
19:49<fonsinchen>It's probably a problem with network games
19:49-!-Sacro1 [~Sacro@83.100.250.72] has joined #openttd
19:50<fonsinchen>You might get disconnected if you lag too much.
19:50<SpComb^>heh, raise the daylength... has the useful side effect of stretching that time period ^^
19:51<dragonhorseboy>fonsinchen one of the thing that annoys me is that for no reason ottd still can't seem to default to a non-zero value for netframe_freq yet. setting it to 20 always solves a lot of the dropoffs in my case
19:51<dragonhorseboy>but meh
19:51<fonsinchen>SpComb^: doesn't help if you keep the map open long enough
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure if lagging half an hour behind is "useful" :p
19:51<dragonhorseboy>hey chris
19:51<SpComb^>fonsinchen: joking
19:52<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: what about displaying the chat messages for half an hour? :P
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19:52<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: i really don't understand why that is counted in days anyway
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19:53<SpComb^>nor do I, but I haven't gotten around to patching it yet
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19:54<SpComb^>it's also very annoying with paused multiplayer games...
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19:54<dragonhorseboy>heh
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19:54<dragonhorseboy>just like the last time between two of us right spcomb?
19:54<SpComb^>quite
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19:56<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: have you had a chance to look at the savegame that guy posted? http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=4512&pid=61218#pid61218 either i don't understand what he is doing wrong or he is just not listening to what i say
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19:57<fonsinchen>I haven't gotten around to it yet.
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19:57<SpComb^>fonsinchen: another thing you might want to consider at some point is reworking the settings towards a "don't change gameplay at default values" mode
19:58<SpComb^>since that's going to be required anyways once it becomes more... mainstream? :)
19:58<ChorizoGrueso>It is time to put those Haitian jigaboos in their place! No matter how many times the civilized world donates money, opens schools, rebuilds their nation, and holds their little monkey paws, the damn niggers can never get it right. They never will! The same goes for New Orleans! Cancun in Mexico suffered few fatalities after their major hurricane, and the rebuilding is already completed. What have the niggers in New Orlea
19:58<ChorizoGrueso>ns done? If you are sick of this, join Chimpout forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum
19:58-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~ChorizoGr@201.171.75.127.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] by DorpsGek
19:58<fonsinchen>That'd be easy: Set all demands to "unhandled" and the rating scaling to off
19:58-!-ChorizoGrueso was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [ChorizoGrueso]
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19:59<fonsinchen>however, for the moment I rather go for the "no need to change anything to play cargodist" mode.
19:59<Zuu>Ah, nice cooked togeather some batch-running scripts for a Windows program using SendKeys and then a C++ program to read the from clipboard and write it to a file. :-)
20:00<Zuu>Now I can just tell it to run a file via cli and then read the results in another file. :-)
20:01<fonsinchen>Eddi|zuHause: Maybe the guy has very long settings for moving average length and unit?
20:02<Sacro1>that forum is rather amusing....
20:02<fonsinchen>That would explain the problem
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>i thought we left this "defaults should be unchanged [=TTD] gameplay" phase behind us...
20:02<SpComb^>fonsinchen: well, part of this would be making it easier to turn cargodist on
20:02<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: yeah, that's what i said, he said he didn't change them
20:03<fonsinchen>maybe he has played some earlier version with the values from back then still being around in his openttd.cfg
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>i'm pretty damn sure he's just not listening to me...
20:04<fonsinchen>In order to make it easy to turn cargodist on I need a set of defaults.
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen: a "cargo destinations" switch in the difficulty gui, and the fine tuning in the advanced settings gui?
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20:05<fonsinchen>Could be done, but I need defaults for the advanced settings. In order to get those, people have to try different settings and give me feedback.
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20:06<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm pretty sure 99,9% of the people don't get what a "moving average" is, have you thought about a more autoadaptive method?
20:07<fonsinchen>I have already implemented one
20:07<fonsinchen>The moving average settings hardly affect anything anymore.
20:07<fonsinchen>I think r18533 was before that, though.
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>well, he picked the wrong one from the daylength thread, even though i pointed to the right one...
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>we should probably put that to rest as a layer 8 error...
20:10<fonsinchen>from the daylength thread? So he's using cargodist with daylength?
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20:11<fonsinchen>The moving average unit is measured in days ... so a long day length will inflate the moving average unit.
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i believe i read that out of his really non-descriptive posts
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20:12<fonsinchen>Then it takes forever for dead links to time out.
20:12<dragonhorseboy>talking with spcomb bought up an interesting question if noone would mind.. can you expand the 'Default Station' with more than just one single platform in the station construction list?
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>aha, might be an explanation
20:13<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: what? the default station can have any amount of platforms
20:13<dragonhorseboy>ok just had to wonder thanks
20:15<dragonhorseboy>eddi do you still remember the mini-in builds btw?
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20:18<Eddi|zuHause>no, i forgot everything about them...
20:19<Eddi|zuHause>what a dumb question...
20:19<SpComb^>I'd love to hear suggestions as to how to fix the moving-average-in-days when using daylength
20:19<SpComb^>one could just hack it to use ORIG_DAY_TICKS, but then it isn't days anymore...
20:20<SpComb^>also, I clearly need to fix up my topic to make the win32 binaries more obvious, even for german readers :)
20:22<dragonhorseboy>hm well eddi and spcomb what would you two think of if say for example you built a long road linking two points but then at some later date decided to not run anything on it anymore...
20:22<dragonhorseboy>as it is now you still keep paying for it (beside it getting in the way of someone's rail laying too) but the mini-in had the optional feature to eventually make the road ownerless when not used frequently enough
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20:23<dragonhorseboy>I know that it might be tricky if only one or two rv was still using the road once in a long while but it could solve one old MP problem with other player being offline and their dead roads are in the way
20:23<dragonhorseboy>just my own thought ;)
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20:24<SpComb^>phpBB markup sucks because there's no [h1]/[h2] or indentations
20:24<SpComb^>dragonhorseboy: dunno and don't care, I don't play competitive
20:25<Zuu>Do you wish to do something with the h1/h2 on your browser?
20:25<dragonhorseboy>for the record I don't know what the patch's name or author would had been because its oddly not mentioned anywhere in the first page on the mini-in thread
20:25<dragonhorseboy>spcomb well competitive isn't the point.. the point was useless roads becoming stripped of whoever *was* owning them. but eh
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: i believe it was called "abandoned roads"
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: might be related to "grass on rails"
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20:28<dragonhorseboy>one interesting thing I did try many times tho was that the fact city owned roads could become your own roads if you ran enoug bus frequently meaning even if the mayor hated you you still could blow up a shoreline city's old water bridge to replace with your own modern (faster top speed) one
20:29<dragonhorseboy>eddi hmm that helped, thanks
20:31<dragonhorseboy>admittly at least a lot of other mini-in features did make it into newer builds at least
20:31<dragonhorseboy>and yes you CAN thank updated relastic accerlation for that too
20:31<dragonhorseboy>on top of several others :)
20:32<dragonhorseboy>btw I think I like that 'grass growth on unused tracks' thing .. would be amusing in a busy IS map when someone then realize that a rail link that hadn't ever been used for a long time is almost lost in very tall weed that the first train has to go really slowly through :p
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20:33*dragonhorseboy tries to not type so much anymore for now (I seem to be filling the screen :S )
20:33<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: both patches need some kind of counter stored in the map
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>which might be problematic for level crossings...
20:34<dragonhorseboy>true on that
20:38<dragonhorseboy>one feature they tried in the mini-in that I grew to hate right away after only one short game was the "slow down at road crossing" train option :S
20:38*SpComb^ slight reformatting
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20:39<dragonhorseboy>was a bit stupid when the trains kept slowing down to <50km/h (regardingly of whatever they were even for 260km/h 8000hp locos) every single freaking road tile to get to the city station :S
20:39<dragonhorseboy>at least thankfully noone else seem to be ever wanting that kind of feature :)
20:40<SpComb^>dragonhorseboy: what are 260km/h trains doing on level crossings? :)
20:40<dragonhorseboy>spcomb better question: why did the mayor build these new roads in the stupid place of all the thing?
20:40<Eddi|zuHause>dragonhorseboy: that was never in MiniIN
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20:58<dragonhorseboy>think I'm going to bed so bye
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21:07*Belugas whistles and sings
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21:33*Zuu joins in and takes a tone
21:38<Zuu>Oh, someone got home from the pub..
21:38<Zuu>(lound party music)
21:46<Zuu>Nha, I'll leave you singing alone Belugas. Since long, time to sleep :-)
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22:54<@Belugas>hehhe
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23:46<Nite_Owl>Hello all
23:50<Nite_Owl>anyone awake - I have an audio question
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 30 00:00:10 2010