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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-30

---Logopened Sat Jan 30 00:00:10 2010
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02:04<Lapsus>Hello! :3
02:04<SirSquidness>Greetings! :3
02:05<Lapsus>I have an idea for a graphics set for openttd and have no idea at all as to how to start or where to find out. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
02:06<Lapsus>Probably a bad question at two AM, but here I am.
02:06<SirSquidness>I have no idea whatsoever. But I can guarantee someone else in here will be able to guide you.
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02:09<Lapsus>That's the hope :D
02:09<roboboy>do you want to draw or code? 8BPP or 32BPP?
02:10<Lapsus>Just a simple experiment, so mostly redrawing original graphics, 8bpp.
02:10<Lapsus>or mercilessly tracing to see if I can do it at all at first :P
02:12<Lapsus>I'm hoping that if I'm making edits to an existing set I can get by with minimal coding. Also this won't be for release at all :v
02:13<roboboy>try http://users.tt-forums.net/purno/PDT/restored/index.html for drawing
02:13<roboboy>look at http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFTutorial for getting it into the game
02:13<roboboy>it was written for TTDPatch but it applys to OpenTTD as they both use the same spec mostly
02:14<Lapsus>Thank you! :3
02:14<roboboy>I had to hunt some of that down as I have not looked at it in ages
02:16<roboboy>and I dont really know what im doing either
02:22<Lapsus>Bah, GRFWizard requires ttdpatch to work, apparently
02:22<Lapsus>google time I suppose.
02:22<roboboy>hm never though of that
02:23<roboboy>you looking for TTDPatch or some other way of using GRFCodec than its command line interface?
02:23<Lapsus>Just grabbed ttdpatch
02:23<Lapsus>lol
02:26<Lapsus>Okay, command line time I suppose
02:29<Lapsus>Ah, that worked
02:30<Lapsus>A couple days of poking at this and I'll be set :v
02:30<Lapsus>Thanks a lot roboboy :3
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03:14<Terkhen>good morning
03:24<andythenorth>morning
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03:57<roboboy>good evening
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04:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r18957 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Doc: Documenting the scroll_x, scroll_y, and subscroll variables of SmallMapWindow.
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04:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: alberth * r18958 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Merge smallmap remap functions.
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05:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r18959 /trunk/src/sprite.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Allow layering of multiple groundsprites in spritelayouts of stations, houses and industrytiles; so hacks with zero-sized bounding boxes are no longer needed and no longer cause trouble.
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05:28<Luukland>Guys, in 0.7.5, selling road that is on an edge costs more money then actually removing road on a flat ground, while railways and heliports don't, I believe when selling road on the edge, it counts the foundation again, while in other situations it doesn't, small bug :)
05:29<TrueBrain>http://bugs.openttd.org/
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05:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r18960 /trunk/src/train.h: -Codechange: Move acceleration-related values to a separated cache.
05:42<planetmaker>moin :-)
05:43<planetmaker>I somehow see the rv acceleration patch approaching trunk inclusion ;-)
05:43<roboboy>is there a difference between removing a rail tile and dynamiteing a rail tile apart from dynamite destroying any other rail peices on the tile?
05:44<Alberth>planetmaker: 'accelerating trunk inclusion' of course :)
05:46<planetmaker>hehe :-P
05:48<roboboy>where does openttd store its title game?
05:48<SpComb^>roboboy: data/opntitle.dat
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05:49<roboboy>it seems when I ran the 1.0.0 beta 3 setup that file was not created
05:49<roboboy>hm now its there
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05:55<roboboy>it seems it was in program files/openttd/data
05:56<Alberth>euhm, how is that not data/opntitle.dat ?
05:56*roboboy wonders what is different about opentitle.dat and the ttd title.dat in terms of file format
05:56*Alberth suspects there is none
05:57<frosch123>one uses ttd save format, the other uses ottd 0.3.2 or simliar format
05:58<roboboy>I tried telling openttd to use the TTD one and it boohood with all water. I was hoping it might just work since OpenTTD can still load TTD savegames
05:58<frosch123>actually i would expect it to just work
05:59<roboboy>but I got blue sea
05:59<Alberth>load it as a normal save game, so you can move around
06:00<frosch123>hmm, ttd saves have different file extension
06:00<frosch123>maybe that is uses to detect them
06:02<frosch123>loading it with ".sv1" works fine
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06:07<frosch123>ah, i see, the intro menu hides the silly tracklayout
06:08<frosch123>i guess i never looked at the original titlegame ingame
06:08<frosch123>how silly :p
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06:35*planetmaker just uploads another proposal for the title screen.
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06:41<ccfreak2k>Welp.
06:41<ccfreak2k>I gave freenode the middle finger.
06:42<ccfreak2k>Now it's time to see if OFTC users are as off-kilter as freenode ones are.
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06:43<Eddi|zuHause>oftc is a way better place
06:46<ccfreak2k>I certainly wouldn't expect to hear the opposite here.
06:47<SpComb^>OFTC's way better than Quakenet :)
06:48-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc0069.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>that's easy, because freenode is getting worse than quakenet :p
06:49<ccfreak2k>I've always noticed freenode as weird ever since I joined a few years ago.
06:49<ccfreak2k>Their "policies" were completely different from any other network.
06:49<ccfreak2k>Now their network kicks instead of throttles if too many commands are set, and they refuse to change it, so fuck 'em.
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06:50<ccfreak2k>Hey so what's openttd anyway
06:50<SpComb^>does it matter?
06:51<ccfreak2k>Command throttling?
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06:52<Eddi|zuHause><ccfreak2k> Hey so what's openttd anyway <-- maybe you should take a look at the website ;)
06:52<Hirundo>Why is memory for cargo packets not zeroed? performance?
06:53<ccfreak2k>Also I wish to dig the opengl patch from the grave and update it to the newest version.
06:53<TinoDidriksen>Hirundo, zeroing is only important if your format is not well defined.
06:53<Alberth>or your code does not comply to your format :)
06:54<TinoDidriksen>Now, if the stream is compressed, zeroing can help...
06:54<Hirundo>All pools automatically zero their memory, but the CP pool explicitly doesn't
06:55<frosch123>likely performance
06:56<frosch123>the cargopacket pool also does not free memory at once, but reuses it for the next packet
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06:58<@Rubidium>Hirundo: yes, performance
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07:30<TrueBrain>lalala
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07:34*orudge replaces TrueBrain with a CD player
07:35<TrueBrain>that might be a good choice, yes, worth your money, for sure
07:36<@orudge>although a CD player is perhaps less good at server administration
07:36<TrueBrain>depends on how good you think I am at it :p
07:36<@orudge>heh
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07:40<ccfreak2k>A CD player can pop open and press the reset button.
07:40<ccfreak2k>If that's all TrueBrain is good for, he might have some competition.
07:40<@orudge>heh
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07:40<@orudge>plus TrueBrain can't reproduce music as accuratel
07:40<@orudge>y
07:41<TrueBrain>neither can I produce any tone that is considered nice-for-the-ear
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07:42<TrueBrain>so lets ask for a donation of a cdplayer
07:42-!-Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
07:43<TrueBrain>then I can finally retire for real :)
07:43<Ammler>:'-(
07:43<@orudge>I could even donate a CD player!
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>wait... that's all it takes to get rid of you? :p
07:43<TrueBrain>why do I see 10 cd players as donation made right now? Hmm ...
07:43<jonty-comp>replace him with the tape player from the IT Crowd
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>haha ;)
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>the "answering machine" :p
07:44<jonty-comp>except substitude "IT department" for "OpenTTD" and etc.
07:44*orudge tries turning jonty-comp off and on again
07:44<jonty-comp>"Hello OpenTTD? Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
07:44<SpComb^>that should work
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07:46<Eddi|zuHause>that reminds me, i have a few episodes left...
07:48<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: that will be my new reply, tnx for the tip :)
07:48*jonty-comp takes credit
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08:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18961 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Simplifying and unduplicating code in smallmap.
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08:24<@Rubidium>hi TrueBrain :)
08:25<TrueBrain>Have you tried turning it off and on again?
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08:25<TrueBrain>morning glx :)
08:26<@Rubidium>yeah, now it gives a BSOD while booting :)
08:26<TrueBrain>then you didn't install Linux, did you? :p
08:26<@Rubidium>well, rather a week ago :)
08:26<+glx>check video driver
08:27<@Rubidium>glx: not much can be done about the video driver in Vista's installer
08:27<TrueBrain>why are you trying Vista? Sounds horrible :)
08:27<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: to try to get the manufacturer to fracking fix their breaking of my computer
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08:28<TrueBrain>I thought the last MB fixed it?
08:28<+glx>can't you try a win7 instead ?
08:28<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yes, id did, that's why I said "well, rather a week ago"
08:28<@Rubidium>glx: don't have a win7 CD, do have the vista CD that came with the laptop
08:28<TrueBrain>ah ;)
08:28<TrueBrain>I was scared :p
08:29<TrueBrain>so you are back developing? :p
08:29<+glx>no win7 in msdnaa?
08:29<@Rubidium>glx: probably
08:29<@Rubidium>but the point is... downloading the several GB file takes more than 1 hour, computer goes into thermal protection after 1 hour of idling
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08:30<+glx>wasn't that fixed already ?
08:30<@Rubidium>s/goes/went/
08:30<+glx>ha :)
08:30<@Rubidium>glx: yes, it did, that's why I said "well, rather a week ago"
08:30<+glx>yup, the "goes" made me think it was doing it again ;)
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08:31<+glx>anyway vista is known to miss a lot of drivers
08:31<@Rubidium>though yesterday I first installed vista so I'd still get "support" from the manufacturer
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08:31<@Rubidium>glx: that's an understatement... I was happy it could detect that there was a CPU in the system
08:32<oskari89>I tried win 7 just yesterday.. Not really much different from vista.
08:32<+glx>not a big problem if it can at least find an ethernet driver (so you can find the missing ones online)
08:32<oskari89>Except faster and lighter than Vista.
08:33<+glx>I have only 1 problem with win7, some games kill aero (disable and not restore when they exit)
08:34<Zuu>I didn't like transparent windows in Vista so I disabled it.
08:34<+glx>I like aero peek
08:34*Rubidium is amazed how much more you can have with 50% of the HDD space usage of Vista
08:35<@Rubidium>including most drivers out-of-the-box
08:36<planetmaker>:-D
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>how much does windows take nowadays? i always reserve around 10-15GB for my / partition
08:37<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: vista install said it needed about 17.8 GB
08:37<Eddi|zuHause>never ran out before...
08:37<+glx>I remember myself compiling kernel to have sound with suse 7.0
08:37<@Rubidium>ofcourse, that includes a 3 GB swap and 3 GB hibernation file
08:37<@Rubidium>currently my system uses, I reckon, about 3-4 GB
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>/dev/sda1 13G 5,6G 6,2G 48% / <-- a fairly fresh install with most of my every-day usage
08:38<+glx>there's an improvement with win7: 32bit and 64bit are in the same box :)
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>except windows games
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08:39<PeterT>morning all
08:40<@Rubidium>hmm, self-compiled debug-grade gcc takes quite a bit of space
08:40<@Rubidium>~900 MiB in /usr/local
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08:42<@Rubidium>but yes, less than half of what you need for Vista, but including 3 different version of gcc, text editors, version control, office tools, mail, (la)tex
08:42<@Rubidium>so yeah, Windows has become quite bloated
08:42<@Rubidium>a 100 MiB download for a videocard driver, like... what's the point?
08:43<@Rubidium>especially if it isn't a 'one-for-all' driver
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, the linux ati drivers are the same size...
08:43<+glx>for nvidia it's one-for-all :)
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>not sure about nvidia
08:44<+glx>(149MB)
08:44<+glx>but it comes with PhysX (and my GPU doesn't support it)
08:45<fonsinchen>alberth, you seem to have understood, what that subscroll variable in smallmap does ...
08:45<fonsinchen>could you explain it to me?
08:47<Alberth>sure
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08:47<fonsinchen>I mean, I have removed it in my patches and I don't see the difference. What am I missing?
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08:48<Alberth>scroll_x and scroll_y refer to a base-tile at the top-left of the smallmap
08:49<Alberth>in smallmap coords, that tile is a 4pixels long, at the left of the top-left of the smallmap display.
08:50<Alberth>the distance between the right-hand side of those 4 pixels and the (0, 0) coordinate (ie the top-left pixel), is subscroll
08:50<fonsinchen>Why isn't that 0 by definition?
08:51<fonsinchen>And what kind of glitch should I be seeing?
08:51<Alberth>I think you use scroll_x/y not only as tile coordinate, but the 4 bits inside a tile also.
08:52<fonsinchen>I have to check that ...
08:52<Alberth>If you drag the map 1 pixel horizontally, the subscroll changes, not the base tile (unless you cross a tile boundary of course)
08:53<Alberth>I am heavily thinking about dividing scrollx/y by 16, as those bits are not used, and it saves a lot of shifting while rendering
08:55<Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/x50y30s0_smallmap.png with subscroll 0 and http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/x50y30s3_smallmap.png with subscroll 3
08:56<Alberth>red 4 pixels is the base-tile
08:57<Alberth>I have also tried to implement my own CenterPos computation by doing this tile counting in reverse, but that didn't work :(
08:58<fonsinchen>OK, I don't quite get it yet. I have to look at my own code again.
08:58<Alberth>fonsinchen: note the "& ~0xF0" in CenterPos that you removed
08:59<roboboy>gnight
08:59<fonsinchen>What is the old name of CenterPos?
08:59<Alberth>gnight roboboy
09:00<fonsinchen>Ah, there it is
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>why all that magic with a "subscroll" if you can just use normal tile coordinates and different scroll steps?
09:00<Alberth>SmallMapCenterOnCurrentPos
09:00<fonsinchen>I didn't know what it did, so I removed it and it still worked.
09:01<Alberth>I suspect your scroll_x/y use the lower 4 bits.
09:01<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: "scroll steps" ?
09:01<fonsinchen>I always though of scroll_x/y to be coordinates on the main viewport
09:01<fonsinchen>not tile coordinates, but absolute ones
09:01<fonsinchen>maybe I'm wrong, though
09:02<Alberth>euhm, maybe my wording was wrong. scroll_x/y are in world coordinates, but always multiples of TILE_SIZE.
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09:03<fonsinchen>Why is that?
09:03<Alberth>no idea, it seems not optimal, simple tile coordinates would be better for performance
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i mean when tiles are 4 times as wide as they are high, scrolling 1 pixel in x direction is 4 steps and in y direction is 16 steps, or somethng
09:04<fonsinchen>I mean, why not just use the absolute coordinates and forget about the multiple of TILE_SIZE
09:04<fonsinchen>I think that's what I'm doing
09:04<Alberth>like Eddi|zuHause says
09:04<Alberth>yes, that seems to make sense
09:06<Alberth>perhaps the subscroll was added later after they found scrolling to be non-smooth.
09:06<Alberth>eg in SmallMapCenterOnCurrentPos it is also not set, although you'd expect that.
09:06<fonsinchen>The tiles are not really 4 times as wide as they are high. There is this trick with drawing alternating columns
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09:07<Alberth>in world coordinates tiles are TILE_SIZE by TILE_SIZE aren't they? That gets distorted by the perspective
09:08<fonsinchen>Yes I know, but the ratio is less drastic. maybe 1:2
09:09<fonsinchen>Even though we draw 4 pixels in a row for each tile
09:09<planetmaker>quite exactly actually
09:09<planetmaker>width=64, height=32 pixels for ground tiles
09:09<Alberth>ah, that you mean. we should render 4x2 pixels instead :)
09:10<fonsinchen>No, that was just in reply to Eddi|zuHause. I don't know what he was up to.
09:12<Eddi|zuHause><Alberth> in world coordinates tiles are TILE_SIZE by TILE_SIZE aren't they? That gets distorted by the perspective <- yes, but it's not that simple, as there is an axis transformation involved
09:12*Alberth wonders whether this difference in ratio is the cause of my reverse tile counting problems
09:12<fonsinchen>"Reverse Tile counting"? What's that?
09:13<fonsinchen>You mean determining the coordinates on the smallmap from main viewport coordinates?
09:14<Alberth>yes
09:14<fonsinchen>That didn't work for me until I got rid of that subscroll
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>the transformation is fairly simple: TILE_SIZE in (map-)x direction is 1 pixel in (screen-)y direction and -2 pixels in x direction
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>TILE_SIZE in (map-)y direction is 1 pixel in (screen-)y direction and +2 pixels in x direction
09:15<Alberth>you have a pixel and a world coordinate, then count back to where scroll_x/y is at the left of the top-left pixel.
09:15<Alberth>the result should be scroll_x/y + subscroll. Unfortunately, it never was :(
09:15<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I have seen RemapCoords() :)
09:17<fonsinchen>So leaving out subscroll gives you a slight inaccuracy of less than one main viewport tile.
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>so the reverse transformation is: 1 pixel in (screen-)x direction is -TILE_SIZE/4 in (map)-x direction and +TILE_SIZE/4 in y-direction
09:18<Alberth>yep
09:19<Alberth>fonsinchen: if you don't use scroll_x to store those bits, yes
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>1 pixel in (screen-)y direction is +TILE_SIZE/2 in both (map-)x and y directions
09:19<fonsinchen>For most of the things you want to draw you either have a tileindex or completely free world coordinates
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>or without the /2?
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09:20<Alberth>with, I think
09:20<fonsinchen>If you align your map not by tiles but by unrestricted world coordinates you don't have to worry about things being aligned to tiles
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's a linear transformation, anyway
09:21<Alberth>fonsinchen: not true, since you draw 4 pixels of a tile at one go.
09:23<fonsinchen>OK, it seems I implicitly round down all coordinates to tile boundaries
09:24<rait>any reason why latest nightly would not successfully load a game?
09:25<planetmaker>yes.
09:25<rait>already fixed problem?
09:25<planetmaker>Just reading the commit log: I bet so
09:26<rait>okay, skipping that bugreport ...
09:26<planetmaker> (edit) @18952 [18952] 17 hours yexo -Fix (r18950): loading recent (=newer then title game) savegames failed
09:27<planetmaker>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/
09:28<rait>i actually have a svn client, don't know why i asked before checking svn log
09:28<Alberth>why didn't you build a current trunk version and tried using that instead?
09:29<rait>haven't got my build setup working yet
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09:31<fonsinchen>So, subscroll is completely determined by scroll_x and scroll_y, right?
09:32<fonsinchen>I think what I do is shift the things I draw with DrawSmallmapStuff so that subscroll is 0 for all others.
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09:35<fonsinchen>This means actually my solution should be a little jumpy on a scale of 2 to 4 pixels. This may be a problem with small screens.
09:37<fonsinchen>Yes, it can only scroll in units of 4 pixels horizontally or 2 pixels vertically.
09:39<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I like your suggestion, will try that.
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09:54<stalwart10>is there a way to set the current view of the map from the openttd console?
09:54<TrueBrain>scrollto?
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10:00<stalwart10>Nicccce
10:00<stalwart10>thanks
10:00<stalwart10>and how can I query it?
10:00<stalwart10>I mean the current position
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10:08<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen a command for that
10:09<TrueBrain>using the Questionmark (the red on)
10:09<TrueBrain>clicking on a tile gives the coordinates
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10:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r18962 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18958, r18961): Code-style, use this explicitly.
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10:47<dragonhorseboy>anyone know why they decided that 'build while paused' has to be considered an actual cheat? just wondering about it
10:49<frosch123>cheats are just singleplayer settings, there is nothing bad with them
10:50<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy: because _you_ can continue to build while an AI cannot.
10:50<dragonhorseboy>well it seem a bit silly that your whole game has to be considered cheated all just because you wanted to be able to resignal a junction without trains crashing everywhere
10:50<planetmaker>oh... re-signaling can be done w/o pause mode.
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10:50<Coco-Banana-Man>you could just stop your trains
10:50<planetmaker>Either pay attention or stop your trains
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10:50<frosch123>or build a track around
10:51<dragonhorseboy>coco...there's 200+ trains..how to stop just only 4% of them?
10:51<dragonhorseboy>frosch..how do you build tracks around when that'll mean maligned 90 corners multiply times
10:51<dragonhorseboy>you know..some junctions are large for a reason
10:51<Coco-Banana-Man>just stop one on each entrace of that junction ;)
10:51<dragonhorseboy>coco...and which one likewise?
10:51<dragonhorseboy>sometimes I wonder if thats why noone bother rebuilding junctions thanks to signal
10:51<frosch123>dragonhorseboy: really, is your biggest problem that it says "oh , he cheated!"
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10:52<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy: honestly. stopping a train on each incoming track to block it is not difficult, is it?
10:53<planetmaker>or remove one tile from the incoming tracks. same effect
10:53<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker...its going crash anyway .. and if the junction had pbs that makes it ever more crashy .. because you know.. trains always never check that what they reserved is not actually there
10:53<planetmaker>and money you loose meanwhile due to trains queuing... no problem in this game either. Or you do it wrong [TM]
10:54<dragonhorseboy>(I've had several trains just deciding to ignore the first red signal because they didn't see anything blocking what they assumingly reserved)
10:54<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy: they don't crash... unless you do it... wrong ;-)
10:54<TrueBrain>dragonhorseboy: it is an art to redesign a busy hub while it is operational .. also the beauty of this game :)
10:54<planetmaker>^^^
10:54<dragonhorseboy>truebrain...in real life trains don't scream by trackside-close signallers at 120km/h
10:54<planetmaker>most enjoyable of things in OpenTTD indeed
10:54<dragonhorseboy>neverminding the vacuum turbulences
10:54<TrueBrain>I loved doing that in coop :)
10:55<planetmaker>you still could do it there :-)
10:55<TrueBrain>haven't played OpenTTD in months
10:55<Alberth>dragonhorseboy: so if we do more real-life, it would be more cumbersome
10:55<TrueBrain>I did start it last week, but that was just to test something for Rubidium :p
10:55<dragonhorseboy>this is why I consider patch=actual play and ottd=only for MP alone
10:55<dragonhorseboy>^_^
10:55<dragonhorseboy>(beside the pause button's unuseable in MP as well anyway)
10:56<dragonhorseboy>alberth how you mean?
10:56<planetmaker>of course it is. Who are you to pause the game for all, if you're not admin?
10:56<planetmaker>if you are the server, you CAN pause it
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10:57<Alberth>well, in RL, they would shut down the junction completely to protect the workers, or build a pass-by, ie things you don't want to do since they are too much trouble. How is that an argument for pause in build?
10:57<planetmaker>it simply doesn't work in the wild that every player can act as server admin.
10:58<planetmaker>Alberth: the by-pass solution works pretty well in OpenTTD :-)
10:58<Alberth>planetmaker: I know, and I love it :)
10:58<dragonhorseboy>alberth try build diagonal bridges in ottd and come back saying you were *able* even build one for a bypass
10:58<planetmaker>So... that piece of realism is actually what I usually employ when re-building hubs
10:58<dragonhorseboy>seriously the limited grid pattern of either game makes it useless for certain alignments
10:59<planetmaker>oh, we've come to the general slash-out now?
10:59<planetmaker>to the "it all sucks dick"?
10:59<jonty-comp>wait a minute
10:59<TrueBrain>you can always find a missing feature in any game. Instead of complaining about it, try to be creative with the things you can do. That shows you are a master of the game. Not noticing something is lacking (in your opinion) :)
10:59<jonty-comp>why would you need to build diagonal bridges for a junction?
10:59<jonty-comp>surely your junction isn't in the sea
10:59<jonty-comp>or in the middle of a town
11:00<dragonhorseboy>jonty-comp its becuase the whole junction was built at straight align so a bypass track would have to become a diagonal bridge to even be able to bypass it at all
11:00<Alberth>and even if it is, just build a bigger passing by
11:00<dragonhorseboy>(unless you wanted induce at least 4 90 degree corners to fit)
11:00<Alberth>what's the problem with that? it is TEMPORARY
11:00<jonty-comp>anyway, what TrueBrain said
11:01<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yeah, that 'real life' game misses undo and saving state and loading old states
11:01<planetmaker>also: be a bit more creative than thinking in only straight tracks and by-passes, dragonhorseboy
11:01<dragonhorseboy>alberth...80km/h for 16+ tiles and causing lot of bangups compared to running smooth at 167km/h nonpulsed
11:01<jonty-comp>note the 'temporary' aspect of this
11:01<TrueBrain>dragonhorseboy: again, the keyword is TEMPORARY
11:02<dragonhorseboy>(and yes longer trains do take a very long time to snake 90 corners)
11:02<TrueBrain>work faster if it bothers you
11:02<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy: also: how do you think construction sites influence the trains in RL?
11:02<jonty-comp>surely you have to do something to clear out the junction before you buildwhilepaused anyway
11:02<TrueBrain>planetmaker: nah, here they just run with 130 kmh passed workers, not a problem :p
11:02<dragonhorseboy>truebrain work faster = introduce multiply mouse cursors support then
11:02<TrueBrain>dragonhorseboy: feel free to submit a patch for it
11:02<dragonhorseboy>jonty..not really
11:02<planetmaker>use keyboard short cuts
11:03<planetmaker>pretty fast actually
11:03<TrueBrain>I would like to see a user use multiple mouses ...
11:03<TrueBrain>can't picture it :)
11:03<jonty-comp>and if the junction is already empty, then it's probably not busy enough to warrant all this fuss anyway :P
11:03<planetmaker>mutliple mice, one cursor. Hillarity ensues.
11:03<dragonhorseboy>in patch I just simple pause .. bulldoze all signals (and any old joins if needed) and plop new ones in then check for any darkened rails still left and make sure these doesn't intersect into another one..then unpause. done
11:03<@Rubidium>just write squirrel byte code with your keyboard and let that be executed
11:03<TrueBrain>planetmaker: that I did do :) Lots of times :) To annoy users ;)
11:03<planetmaker>:-P
11:03<jonty-comp>oh, I see
11:04<jonty-comp>you don't actually change the track
11:04<dragonhorseboy>planetmaker..there's no keyboard shortcut to place items :)
11:04<planetmaker>dragonhorseboy: so.. what's the problem with using the build-in-pause mode In OpenTTD?
11:04<dragonhorseboy>only select menu items usually
11:04<TrueBrain>then I wonder what I have been using all those years ....
11:04<TrueBrain>there are no shortcuts to palce stuff .. shit .... how did I do that ...
11:04*TrueBrain goes back in history to check
11:05*jonty-comp follows TrueBrain with a power drill
11:05<TrueBrain>NOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo
11:05<TrueBrain>not the power drill!
11:05<planetmaker>the hydraulic hammer?
11:05<TrueBrain>wait: Have you tried turning it off and on again?
11:05<jonty-comp>now if you don't mind, I have an episode of the Simpsons to watch, which is in HD for some reason
11:05<TrueBrain>enjoy :)
11:05<jonty-comp>perhaps I will!
11:05<planetmaker>^
11:05<TrueBrain>I hope you do
11:06<TrueBrain>else it is a waste of your time
11:06<jonty-comp>most things are
11:06<jonty-comp>yet I still do them :D
11:06<TrueBrain>true
11:06<TrueBrain>breathing being in the top 10 for me
11:06*jonty-comp takes his power drill elsewhere
11:06<TrueBrain>complete waste of my time
11:06<dragonhorseboy>lol truebrain you do know that you need oxygen to live anyway :P
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11:06*dragonhorseboy hehs
11:06<TrueBrain>I need sleep too; still a complete waste of time
11:07<@Rubidium>there's a simple way to reduce wasted time
11:07<dragonhorseboy>then why are you living?
11:07<planetmaker>to waste your time. Just for the spite
11:07<TrueBrain>why are we here?
11:07<@Rubidium>... just stop procreating
11:07<TrueBrain>Rubidium: but I like the attempts to procreate too much
11:08<@Rubidium>although I wonder why procreate and procrastinate look so similar
11:08-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd
11:08<TrueBrain>because they both start with 'pro' and end with 'ate'?
11:09<@Rubidium>yeah, that must be it
11:10<Sacro>prostitate?
11:10<@peter1138>proportionate
11:11<@Rubidium>of even because they both start woth procr
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11:15<Zuu>TrueBrain: The answer for what you have been using all years: a compiler and a text editor to code OpenTTD instead of trying to play it? :-)
11:16<TrueBrain>OWH SHIT! That have I been doing wrong :'(
11:16<TrueBrain>I feel stupid now
11:16*dragonhorseboy hehs
11:16*dragonhorseboy is actually trying to work on some quick nfo coding :S
11:17-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:19<dragonhorseboy>at least thankful for helpful softwares + the nfo wiki on ttdpatch.net :)
11:19<TrueBrain>thin ice .. thin ice ...
11:19<dragonhorseboy>?
11:20<TrueBrain>owh, since you joined you are doing nothing else then bashing against OpenTTD, and promoting TTDp. I have nothing against TTDp, but there are limits to what is considered social behavoir
11:20<Zuu>TrueBrain: To comfort you I was able to press the "Add comment" button instead of "attach .." button on FlySpray two times in a row today. :-p
11:20<Alberth>dragonhorseboy: you seem to better use #ttdpatch
11:20<TrueBrain>Zuu: concratz ;)
11:20<dragonhorseboy>alberth..then what about the IS games? :p
11:20<Zuu>I'm probably already preparing to get drunk tonight :-p
11:21<TrueBrain>hmmm .. getting drunk tonight ... now there is a very good idea ...
11:21<Zuu>There is a big kravall (overall party = party where you were your overall) in town tonight.
11:22<dragonhorseboy>alberth and don't forget that several major pages on the ottd wiki actually points to finding it on ttdpatch.net instead for some reason (and the basecostmod is a ottd-only grf yet it ends up on ttdpatch.net anyone?)
11:23<TrueBrain>Zuu: oeh, can I join? :)
11:23<dragonhorseboy>have fun zuu
11:23<dragonhorseboy>brb
11:24<Zuu>TrueBrain: I think you could enter there as a guest. But aren't you in the centeral Europe?
11:24<Aali>Zuu: vilken kulör pryder er ouveralle?
11:24<TrueBrain>Netherlands, to be exact
11:25<Zuu>Aali: deep blue
11:25<Zuu>With yellow and black stripes
11:26<Zuu>marine blue*
11:27<Zuu>And yours Aal?
11:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r18963 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Give AccelerationModel a generical name.
11:27<Zuu>Aali?*
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11:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18964 /trunk/src/ (48 files in 3 dirs): -Change: Highlight the selected action for town authority, and do not duplicate the itemtext to the description.
11:30<dragonhorseboy>hey yexo
11:31<Aali>Zuu: råsa
11:32<Aali>#F280A1
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11:39<+glx>Aali: utf8 please
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: what do you actually have to do with long fish that can cause electric shocks?
11:45<Aali>glx: eat my ass please :)
11:45<Aali>Eddi|zuHause: your hovercraft is full of eels?
11:45*TrueBrain gets the popcorn
11:46-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] by DorpsGek
11:46-!-Aali was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [hmm no]
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>Aali: yes, those... they're ... damn
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11:47<dragonhorseboy>:)
11:48-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] by DorpsGek
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12:42<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18965 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17846): Don't compare horizontal positions with vertical.
12:43<TrueBrain>tsss, why not?
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12:47<frosch123>ask your girlfriend
12:47<TrueBrain>touche :)
12:47<frosch123>:)
12:48<planetmaker>lol
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13:02<Zuu>Mhe, my overall needs some sewing threatment :-s
13:05<Zuu>Mostly because I'm out of glue :-p
13:05<TrueBrain>I can make so many funny remarks now ...
13:05<TrueBrain>instead, I will just sit silently
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>you forgot "have you tried turning it off and on again" :p
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>(especially the spell-checker :p)
13:09<planetmaker>:-P
13:10<Zuu>Please enlighten me.
13:12<planetmaker>Zuu, I had to read it twice. It's probably treatment instead of threatment. But... those sentences taken out of context can be easily understood for much more joy when put into other contexts ;-)
13:12<TrueBrain>sewing .. glue .. oh yeah!
13:14<Zuu>yea, should be treatment there.
13:14<Zuu>Or maybe just some 'care'. :-)
13:14<planetmaker>he :-)
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13:15<Zuu>The glue of the stripes on one side has loosened on a stretch of 20-25 cm.
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13:16*andythenorth wonders if the FIRS cement plant should produce goods instead of Engineering Supplies
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13:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: possibly both?
13:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18966 /trunk/src/ (46 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Remove Window::OnDoubleClick() in favour of a parameter for OnClick().
13:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I've resolved on goods. It's a bit weird delivering 'cement' to a quarry for example (as Engineering Supplies). Goods goes to towns. It's cleaner and easier for the player :)
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it makes sense
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>i thought "engineering supplies" is more heavy machinery and the like
13:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yes. Also fuel, and (in an easter egg)....explosives! :D
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13:39<+glx>just use fertilizer and fuel :)
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand fuel...
13:40<planetmaker>fertilizer in order to make towns grow or double industry output?
13:41<TrueBrain>people tend to breed better when giving fertilizer
13:41<andythenorth>glx: I did think of that....
13:41<andythenorth>glx: another easter egg: deliver fertiliser and fuel together, and the industry explodes!
13:41<andythenorth>oh, we probably just got listed by echelon!
13:42<TrueBrain>lets post it on twitter!
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>who cares if we blow up america
13:42<Prof_Frink>Americans?
13:42<Eddi|zuHause>for allah!
13:42<Eoin>America!
13:42<andythenorth>umm
13:42<andythenorth>it was all going so nicely
13:42<Prof_Frink>Canadians might complain if bits of America landed on them
13:43<Eoin>Just wait till the wind changes direction
13:43<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18967 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18966): Never trust your copy&paste skills.
13:43<planetmaker>lol
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>canada is funny, it's like a semipermeable membrane
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>all the good stuff from canada gets into USA, but all the bad stuff from USA does not get into canada :p
13:45<Zuu>Like that the Canadians are better at using the SI units?
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18968 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 5 changes by Tvel
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 3 changes by ReisRyos
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>i watched the beginning of lost a few days ago, and noticed how people like jack and sawyer go in miles and people like sayid go in kilometers
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i almost understand a few parts of the "techno-babble" in the music thread ;)
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14:06<@peter1138>sounds bad with the slow strings
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't actually listened to anything
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i started now two video conversions, but now they are both using 150% CPU
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>so apparently it's trying to keep one CPU free
14:17<TrueBrain>LOL! Watching a serie ... they have 'The Key' which bypasses any firewall / password on the Internet, because of a fundamental flaw in the Internet
14:17<TrueBrain>hahahahahaha
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>the fundamental flaw in the internet is called "governments"
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i have a feeling that i'm missing an episode of dollhouse
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14:48<TrueBrain>LOL! Now the computer on the plane "got confused" and "shut down" ... LOL!
14:48<TrueBrain>this serie sucks (fact-wise)
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14:48<+glx>what's its name?
14:49<TrueBrain>Human Target, S01E02
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14:51<SpComb^>are there any sensible SNMP -> RRD collectors, apart from MRTG (which has its own limitations..)
14:52<SpComb^>there's cacti, but... PHP... MySQL..
14:52<TrueBrain>Cacti is the most used, but it sucks like hell
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14:58<SpComb^>seems collectd does have a sensible SNMP module after all
14:58<SpComb^>http://collectd.org/documentation/manpages/collectd-snmp.5.shtml
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14:59<nicfer>hi
15:00<nicfer>one question, how do I install git on debian?
15:00<TrueBrain>apt-get install git-core
15:00<TrueBrain>I believe
15:01-!-Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
15:01<TrueBrain>'git' itself is some random other packet
15:01<TrueBrain>package
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15:04<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yeah, that episode is far far from being anywhere near realistic
15:06<frosch123>pick a random series, rb knows it
15:07<TrueBrain>Dutch boredom: download every serie you can
15:07<TrueBrain>Dutch law: it is legal
15:08<+glx>then what was the problem with pirate bay ?
15:08<@Rubidium>providing the downloads is illegal
15:08<TrueBrain>BREIN trying to be funny
15:08<+glx>ha
15:09<TrueBrain>but I can access tpb freely, so .... dunno
15:10<frosch123>maybe you find some country, where only downloading is illegal, and providing is not :)
15:11<octo_>SpComb^: If you need help or have feedback, let me know ;)
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15:11<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: probably because they sued the wrong people :)
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15:17<TrueBrain>"Feeding the cat" - Puts on gasmask
15:22<Terkhen>here in Spain you have to pay canon for each storage device (including DVDs, digital cameras and the like), for recording devices (such as a DVD recorder or even a printer) and I think they are trying to impose it for network devices too
15:23<@Rubidium>Terkhen: happens here too
15:23<TrueBrain>we only have to do for CDs, DVDs, .. lucky the request to do it on MP3 players and stuff was denied
15:24<+glx>we have a tax for every storage device
15:24<+glx>including HDD
15:24<TrueBrain>so every country is fucked .. nice to know :)
15:25<+glx>that's why our ISP provides TV box with a 40GB only HDD (in reality it's a 80GB ;) )
15:25<@Rubidium>anyhow, I'd suggest for Brein to extend to paper too. 10 euro per square meter... lets see how much spam is going to be reduced
15:25<@Rubidium>and how much the government is going to screw itself
15:25<frosch123>i guess there is no duty on transfering hdd from de to fr
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15:25<+glx>only if uncaught I think
15:26<+glx>same for recordable DVD
15:26<Terkhen>your equivalent of RIAA also buys theaters and palaces with the canon money? :)
15:26<+glx>theorically it's given to SACEM which then redirect to artists
15:27<Terkhen>that's how it works in theory here too
15:27<frosch123>what part is theoretically? the "given" or the "redirect"?
15:27<+glx>I'd say both ;)
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15:28<+glx>only major artists get something usually
15:28<TrueBrain>here a magizine has nice proof both are theoretical :)
15:28<@Rubidium>glx: yeah, and I guess *ONLY* when the amount for the artist passes a certain amount and *ONLY* when they can agree on some division among artists
15:28<Terkhen>that's how it happens here too :)
15:28<+glx>something like that
15:28<Eddi|zuHause><TrueBrain> LOL! Now the computer on the plane "got confused" and "shut down" ... LOL! <-- there was a real incident on some airplane presentation where the crew shut down the computer because it wouldn't allow a maneuver [who the fuck even allowed that??]. of course the plane subsequently crashed during that maneuver
15:29<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: still something different. Here they made a move which made the computer crash, and hang the whole plane :p
15:29<+glx>only one computer in this plane?
15:30<TrueBrain>and clearly no auto-reboot (which they all have :p)
15:30<@Rubidium>yeah... and then they downloaded the OS for the 'computer in the plane' in mid air
15:30<TrueBrain>even computers in the car can reboot N times per second ;)
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>(we had these incidents on a lecture of software engineering)
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>(as in: "first lesson: how to not do it!") :p
15:30<@Rubidium>and ofcourse it ran on a laptop
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15:30<+glx>ariane 5 first launch is a nice one too
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that one was in there as well
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>even in-depth, because it's a good example of error management
15:31<@Rubidium>and the computer was conveniently placed where the nose wheel is
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>and some stock market in milano
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>where they used "always round down" instead of a balanced method
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15:39*andythenorth wonders: could 'Fuel Oil' and 'Chemicals' be combined to 'Petro-chemicals' ??
15:40<valhallasw>no.
15:40<valhallasw>of course, you could change the names
15:40<TrueBrain>'Dark' and 'Angel' can be combined to 'Dark Angel'! :)
15:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ^^ you usually have an opinion
15:40<TrueBrain>Hmmmm ... Jessica Alba ..... hmmmm ....
15:41<valhallasw>however, fuel oil is not a petrochemical and not all chemicals are petrochemicals
15:43<valhallasw>however, while they are three completely different things, computers generally do not care if you want to combine apples and pears under the banana name.
15:43<+glx>you just need a cast :)
15:44<andythenorth>valhallasw: thank you, a very exacting answer :) but not quite what I was looking for
15:44<valhallasw>glx, you just made my day :D
15:44<@Rubidium>apples, peers, bananas, OpenTTD got all :)
15:45<valhallasw>so, andythenorth, what /are/ you looking for?
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15:45<andythenorth>I am deciding whether to eliminate cargos from the FIRS set
15:45<+glx>I can run apple in pear
15:45<TrueBrain>I can run PEAR on an Apple
15:45<+glx>but why?
15:46<valhallasw>yes. I think my answer addressed that issue
15:46<valhallasw>you could do that, but petrochemicals are a nonsensical names to describe fuel oil + chemicals
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15:47<+glx>but it can be the output of an industry accepting chemicals and fuel oil
15:48<valhallasw>so the industry casts a (chemical, fuel oil) tuple to petrochemicals
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15:51*andythenorth thinks that Fuel Oil and Chemicals will stay separate for now
15:51<valhallasw>andythenorth: what about 'petroleum products'
15:51<valhallasw>too long, probably? :)
15:51<valhallasw>but in the case of FIRS, fairly accurate
15:51<frosch123>some day there will be an industry set representing organic chemistry, where you can produce ethanol from ethan and something i forgot
15:53<frosch123>and if you deilver the wrong cargo, they just close down :p
15:53<valhallasw>:D
15:53<SpComb^>octo: on collectd?
15:53<octo>SpComb^: *nod*
15:54<TrueBrain>SpComb^: I guess he wanted to point out he is in some way involved in that development :p
15:54<SpComb^>seems so, I found his name on the contact page :)
15:54<SpComb^>octo: well... the SNMP plugin lacks some features that MRTG has...
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15:55<SpComb^>octo: mostly, selecting specific IF-MIB::*.$foo counters to poll based on the values in IF-MIB::ifName.$foo
15:55<SpComb^>octo: in other words, only polling the counters for interfaces with specific names... and those interface names are also a host-specific property, so it would be very cumbersome to specify those in the <Data> block
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15:57<TrueBrain>on that I agree SpComb^ ...
15:57<SpComb^>just polling all of the counters with Data::Instance works quite well, and the output .rrd files have the ifName in them, but one doesn't always want to get all the values in a table
15:58<octo>SpComb^: Yeah, that's been requested a couple of times, but so far nobody stepped up to implement it
15:58<SpComb^>it seems there's a little conflict between a) running collected on both hosts with the network plugin b) running collectd on one host and snmpd on another host
15:58<octo>SpComb^: It's possible to query all interfaces and then filter out the ones you don't want, but that's not acceptable for large routers or some embedded hardware
15:59<SpComb^>or Xen dom0 with dozens of domU's...
15:59<SpComb^>(each domU having several if's)
15:59<octo>Those you shouldn't query with SNMP …
16:00<SpComb^>-> 131 .rrd's
16:00<TrueBrain>are there easy ways to monitor bandwidth of a domU?
16:00<TrueBrain>(without required software running inside the domU)
16:00<SpComb^>TrueBrain: use vifname=vif-hostname-whatever in the vif=[] statements
16:00<octo>TrueBrain: http://collectd.org/wiki/index.php/Libvirt
16:00<SpComb^>so then the interfaces get nice names instead of vifX.Y
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16:01<TrueBrain>octo: now that is useful :)
16:01<octo>TrueBrain: Indeed :)
16:02<SpComb^>the plugin config seems a bit simplistic
16:02<TrueBrain>I guess I need to remove Cacti from our network and roll out collectd? :)
16:03<SpComb^>also: Include statements inside of <Plugin> blocks
16:03<SpComb^>TrueBrain: collectd doesn't do the graph output
16:04<TrueBrain>it is not like Cacti does that in any way that I would consider acceptable
16:04<TrueBrain>how often it fucked up a graphical output ........
16:04<TrueBrain>currently it has a big sign on it: DO NOT TOUCH -- IT IS WORKING NOW
16:04<SpComb^>then roll your own rrdtool scripts :P
16:04<octo>SpComb^: Enabling the "Include" keyword within blocks would create inconsistencies and break some plugins..
16:05*SpComb^ wrote some python to make nice smokeping-inspired rrdtool graphs
16:05<TrueBrain>well, the stats collecting shit already is custom made ...
16:05<octo>SpComb^: But you can have multiple <Plugin /> blocks for one plugin if you want to split the config
16:05<TrueBrain>even our own protocol
16:05<TrueBrain>(because Cacti fucked up SNMP reads when trying to read 15+ hosts)
16:05<SpComb^>then what *do* you use Cacti for? :P
16:07<TrueBrain>the most fun I always have with Cacti when a system goes into a reboot (for what ever reason), even if it is only a VPS
16:07<TrueBrain>it immediatly tells me the system is doing 100 mbit/s, for at least 10 minutes
16:07<TrueBrain>try to explain to a customer why his usage was 10 fold of normal ...
16:07<TrueBrain>or try updating Cacti without losing data
16:08<TrueBrain>owh, I am going to stop ranting against Cacti now ... don't use it, my tip of the day
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16:10<SpComb^>octo: I'll have to take a look at the snmp.c code some time... but I think for now I'll stick to MRTG for the traffic stuff
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16:12<octo>SpComb^: Sure ;)
16:13<TrueBrain>I am going to focus my frustration on my lovely MMO to-be :p
16:14<Noldo>what?
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16:21<TrueBrain>what what? :p
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16:23<@Rubidium>kilowhat
16:23<TrueBrain>watt is joule per second?
16:25<Noldo>wtf / line
16:25<@Rubidium>yeah, watt? :)
16:25<Noldo>TrueBrain: what kind of MMO?
16:25<TrueBrain>Noldo: owh, a Dune2 spinoff
16:25<TrueBrain>I wanted to do a TTD, but it means rewriting OpenTTD, which is no fun
16:26<Noldo>TrueBrain: is it all in your head or do you have something writen down?
16:26<TrueBrain>we are writing things down slowly
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16:33<Noldo>how are you going to make it massive?
16:34<@Rubidium>1TiB download of unneeded crap?
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16:35<TrueBrain>Noldo: by allowing a lot of players to battle each other :) That much was obvious I hope :)
16:37<@peter1138>MMOTTD?
16:38<Noldo>TrueBrain: yes
16:38<TrueBrain>I have drafts for that :) But you need to pull out the client from the server ... that is never going to happen
16:39<Noldo>is it going to be series of normal dune fights tied together with something else or a big dune world
16:39<TrueBrain>one big dune world :)
16:39<TrueBrain>let me show you the drafts ...
16:41<TrueBrain>I had to read them over to make sure it was 'up-to-date' :p
16:42<TrueBrain>http://devs.opendune.org/~truebrain/mmo/ <- not much yet, but we are trying to get there :) (while working on OpenDUNE and the technical implements of this MMO)
16:42<Noldo>what is a good reading order?
16:43<TrueBrain>first_draft.txt gives the general idea .. the rest are the same in more detail
16:43<TrueBrain>order is not important after that
16:45<SpComb^>http://fixme.fi/~terom/rrdweb/ <-- crunch crunch crunch
16:45<TrueBrain>many interfaces :p
16:46<SpComb^>thankfully the script generates all of the .html and .png files for each .rrd every time you update anything
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16:49<Noldo>TrueBrain: done
16:49<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18969 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h rail.h rail_cmd.cpp): -Add: [NewGRF] NewGRF-settable rail type properties.
16:50<@Rubidium>is that what everyone else thinks it is?
16:50<@Rubidium>the "catenary over third rail"-patch?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>lack of "-Feature" ;)
16:52<TrueBrain>Noldo: any suggestions / ideas you might have, are very welcome (via PM that is)
16:52<@peter1138>could've been a codechange
16:52<@peter1138>it's just properties, no graphics yet
16:53<@peter1138>although yes, it does include the flag for catenary... i'd totally forgotten about that, hehe
16:54<SpComb^>octo: so what rrdtool web frontend do you recommend for use with collectd?
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16:54<+glx>Noldo: and feel free to test the current opendune version :)
16:55<octo>SpComb^: Personally I'm using the bundeled "collection3" script
16:56<octo>SpComb^: Visage is pretty popular these days: http://auxesis.github.com/visage/
16:56<octo>SpComb^: collectw looks kinds promising: http://sourceforge.net/projects/collectw/
16:58<SpComb^>drraw is ... all the AJAX/JSON things are ... I just want something with properly customizeable HTML/CSS output,
16:59<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18970 /trunk/ (docs/landscape_grid.html src/rail_type.h): -Codechange: Increase number of possible rail types to 16.
17:00<frosch123>pff, everyone could have changed that constant :p
17:00<@peter1138>go on then
17:01<frosch123>hehe, obviously there will be someone who wants "more" :)
17:02<+glx>as always
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17:04<stalwart10>Why can't be there 2^31-1 rail types?
17:04<@peter1138>because i personally decided you can only have 16
17:04<@Rubidium>why limit it to 2^31-1?
17:04<@peter1138>because i'm mean :D
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i already explained why 16 might become limited quite soon...
17:05<frosch123>we need extra zoom to distinguish more railtypes
17:05<stalwart10>2^31 fits nicely into a signed 32 bit word :-)
17:05<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it is relatively easy to change to more. you just add another byte to the map array...
17:06<@peter1138>NewMapArray!
17:06<stalwart10>but we could consider that 64 bit systems are taking over
17:06<@peter1138>(2^64)-1 railtypes?
17:06<stalwart10>yees
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: as if that is "easy" to argue past a majority of the devs :p
17:07<frosch123>wasn't it richk who said, he would just make all of m1..m7 uint32s :)
17:07<stalwart10>you could allocate some ipv6 address range for openttd rail types as well :-)
17:07<@Rubidium>why not doubles? 1.797e308
17:10<frosch123>we do not duplicate code
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17:11<@peter1138>de-de-duplicate
17:12<frosch123>reduplicate?
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i should say something, but can't come up with anything intelligible :p
17:13<frosch123>should fit well then
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17:44<andythenorth>would BEER be an appropriate cargo?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: MB tried that, but later decided it'd make more sense as a subcargo: Food (Beer)
17:45<andythenorth>that's what I concluded about a year ago. just thought I'd double check!
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17:54<TrueBrain>lalaal
17:55*andythenorth : has simplified FIRS cargo chains a little more and reduced the industry count a little more :)
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18:33<Eddi|zuHause>damn...
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>i turn around to go to my bed
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>and what do i see?
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>two cats...
18:35<roboboy>byebye
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23:30<Diablo-D3>hey all
23:31<Diablo-D3>is the 1.0 betas supposed to automatically download opengfx/sfx?
23:43<SirSquidness>I don't think so
23:44<Diablo-D3>ahh
23:44<SirSquidness>They're downloadable from the website somewhere
23:46<Diablo-D3>yeah I just did
23:46<Diablo-D3>also
23:47<Diablo-D3>this is insane, it wont let me buy a bus
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 31 00:00:13 2010