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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-01-31

---Logopened Sun Jan 31 00:00:13 2010
00:03<Diablo-D3>there we go
00:37<@Rubidium>Diablo-D3: the Windows installer gives you an option to automatically download OpenGFX and OpenSFX; the rest doesn't
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01:25<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: ahh
01:25*Diablo-D3 is playing an all vehicle game
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02:17*Diablo-D3 mehs and adds a few trains
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02:39<@peter1138>andythenorth, it might with pikka's tai. lots of pubs with that...
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03:23<Terkhen>good morning
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04:17<andythenorth>annoying as neob might be, I'm 99% certain he's right about this grf list thing
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05:24<planetmaker>tralalala <-- please correct any gross mistakes, peter1138 ;-)
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05:26<@peter1138>thanks pm
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05:27<andythenorth>drat, I misread that as Action0RoadTypes :P
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05:37*andythenorth wonders what to code today.
05:39<andythenorth>'morning' appears to be coded already. my one here is working ok anyway
05:40<TrueBrain>in that case, write me a cell-cluster system which is redundant and allows crossmoving with as little latency as possible
05:40<andythenorth>umm....can that be done with nfo varaction 2?
05:40<TrueBrain>not a chance on earth
05:46*Alberth wonders whether 2 computers running in sync would fit that requirement
05:46<TrueBrain>they are cells ... and a cluster ... redundant .. yeah, it would, tnx Alberth :)
05:47<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: look at UMTS
05:49*Rubidium wonders what has to do with it
05:51*andythenorth really puzzled about whether to include a Fuel Depot in FIRS
05:53<Alberth>isn't there already a fuel depot in a grf?
05:53<andythenorth>PBI has one
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06:05<TrueBrain>Rubidium: most likely UMTS is a bit overkill ;)
06:06<Alberth>you never know how much redundancy you need ;)
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06:13<OsteHovel^Atom>what is needed to port OpenTTD to a new platform like Android(ARM) ?
06:13<@Rubidium>a compiler and knowledge of the android APIs
06:13<OsteHovel^Atom>Like we can compile SDL to work on Android..
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06:14<@Rubidium>and some knowledge on how to hack several pieces of code to compile for android
06:15<@Rubidium>although if it's Linux based it should be as trivial as installing the required libraries and development headers in such a way that OpenTTD's configure can find them
06:17<OsteHovel^Atom>hmm is SDL enouch to get a "working" openttd running?
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06:18<OsteHovel^Atom>or i rewrite the sentence: can openttd run with only the SDL libraries and it dosent have any other dependencies to get it "running" ?
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06:19<OsteHovel^Atom>omg im hopeless in writing complicated sentences...
06:19<TrueBrain>OsteHovel^Atom: just try it ;)
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06:20<TrueBrain>it is not needed, but you also might want libpng, libz, and more of those
06:20<TrueBrain>the configure will tell you
06:20<OsteHovel^Atom>aaa that i know ;) but i woundered of the Required dependenies...
06:20<OsteHovel^Atom>thanks btw ;)
06:20<OsteHovel^Atom>i might try to get atleast something working ;)
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06:26<@Rubidium>if only Oste would like... read the readme
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06:36<@Rubidium>OsteHovel^PDA: the required libraries and such are described in the readme
06:37<OsteHovel^PDA>Thanks ;)
06:37<@Rubidium>under the 'Compiling: Required/optional libraries' section, which ought to be reasonably easy to find
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06:43<OsteHovel^PDA>Thanks rubidium i found it ;)
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06:56<Muxy>Hi there, i heard of extending the track type. What kind of new track is in project ?
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06:58<Muxy>i was thinking of wooden tracks... no ?
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07:00<planetmaker>Go, make such newgrf, Muxy
07:01<Muxy>yeap, could be amazing, with wooden engines driven by pre-historic people
07:03<OsteHovel^PDA>You thinking about very slow moving trains?
07:04<__ln__>Schwebebahn is also obviously missing.
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07:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18971 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Train acceleration for original acceleration model wasn't updated if the train's power changed.
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08:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18972 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.h table/railtypes.h train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Add: [NewGRF] Per-rail type speed limits.
08:17<andythenorth>industry naming question...which makes more sense:
08:17<andythenorth>"Lumber Treatment Plant"
08:17<andythenorth>"Lumber Preserving Plant"
08:18<andythenorth>"Lumber Treatment Works"
08:18<andythenorth>"Creosote Plant"
08:18<andythenorth>"Timber Treatment Plant"
08:18<planetmaker>what's input, what's output?
08:18<Terkhen>hmmm... what does it do?
08:19<andythenorth>Input: Lumber, Chemicals. Output: Engineering Supplies
08:19<andythenorth>(pit props, poles, railroad sleepers, wooden piling etc)
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea what that is...
08:21<andythenorth>oops, wrong link sorry
08:21<andythenorth>It replaces the FIRS engineering yard, which had some problems
08:22<SpComb^>Output: 2x4's
08:22<andythenorth>SpComb^: :D
08:25<Sevalecan>"Lumber Burning Furnace"
08:29<Terkhen>I'm between "Lumber Treatment Plant" and "Lumber Treatment Works"
08:30<planetmaker>"Big Boys Toyshop" :-P
08:30<andythenorth>Lumber Treatment Plant is my preferred
08:32<planetmaker>One of those two which Terkhen said
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08:35<andythenorth>It seems in the US "Wood Preserving Plant" is more common, but I think it's confusing (it doesn't accept Wood for starters)
08:36<planetmaker>and besides you're in the UK :-P
08:38<SpComb^>Temperate = the UK, Arctic = Canada, Desert/Tropical = South America
08:38<planetmaker>And having at least one input in the name is better than one which is not accepted
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08:56*andythenorth wonders whether to try and make FIRS power plants do anything more interesting than consume unlimited amounts of coal :o
08:58<OsteHovel^PDA>Make powerlines to the city to get soe
08:58<OsteHovel^PDA>Some streetlights working...
09:00<andythenorth>neither of those are possible currently :)
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09:07<Alberth>produce batteries :p
09:08<planetmaker>hehe :-)
09:08<Ammler>find some bugs, which crashes openttd, then crash it, when you don't supply it with power...
09:08<planetmaker>just introduce the cargo "Watt"
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09:09<planetmaker>and if you live on the North Sea, you can go beyond the dike and grab a few kilo watts :-P
09:09<planetmaker>(works better in the German language)
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09:12<OsteHovel^PDA>Is there a way to make dual(two one way and two the other way) railways and the trains infact use both of the lines not just the one thats shortest?
09:14<Zuu>Make them equaly expansive to use?
09:14<Zuu>(expansive to the path finder)
09:14<Zuu>given that there is no trains on the two paths. With trains in the way and red signals on one track, the other will become cheaper.
09:15<OsteHovel^PDA>Ok ;)
09:15<OsteHovel^PDA>You suggest making long segments between ligjts?
09:16<OsteHovel^PDA>I may just try it out anyway... much easier that way i think....
09:16<OsteHovel^PDA>Thanks anyway Zuu ;)
09:16<Zuu>For this case, I don't know what a good signal distance is. However in general keep a constant signal distant not neccesarily very small.
09:17<Zuu>If you have a signal distance of 4 or 5 clear tiles you will be able to make tunnels/bridges much easier without having a bottle neck there.
09:17<OsteHovel^PDA>ok ;)
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09:18<Eddi|zuHause>my signal distance is usually train length x1.5
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>so for 8 tile trains that makes 12 tile signal distance
09:19*andythenorth still not convinced neob is wrong
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09:22<TrueBrain>whoho, never finished a project in so little time, never wrote such ugly code, never made such ugly interface ... but I did it, in time, within the requirements of the project .. now lets never look back to it
09:25<Alberth>andythenorth: with respect to grf-crawler being not very friendly, he is right
09:25<Alberth>TrueBrain: time to play a openttd game :p
09:26<TrueBrain>tempting, for some reason
09:26<Terkhen>TrueBrain: that could be applied to most of my practices for university
09:26<TrueBrain>Terkhen: well, mostly I pay a tiny bit more attention to my work
09:26<TrueBrain>but this was so idiotic ...
09:27<TrueBrain>I am just REALLY happy I know a few frameworks inside out :)
09:27<Alberth>that seems to be a gap in my education :)
09:29<TrueBrain>I hate it that my Mac attached a directory of 2.5GB just because I double clicked on it unintentionally ...
09:30<@peter1138>it whated?
09:30<@peter1138>and why are you using a mac? :s
09:31<jonty-comp>why not
09:31<TrueBrain>I have been for the last 4 months
09:38<valhallasw>TrueBrain: sounds like human computer interaction :p
09:39<TrueBrain>valhallasw: nope
09:39<@peter1138>so we have two mac-using devs who don't fix mac problems ;)
09:39<TrueBrain>HCI was nice
09:39<TrueBrain>@cakc 13 * 4500
09:40<TrueBrain>@calc 13 * 4500
09:40<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 58500
09:40<TrueBrain>valhallasw: HCI is like: get Fons on your side, and it is a walk in the park; did an amazing project, still proud at it :)
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09:43<@peter1138>HCI? Fons?
09:43<TrueBrain>class, teacher
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09:50<Hirundo>Is it possible to delete a non-AI company in single player (for debugging purposes) ?
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
09:57<Hirundo>MP only, that's the problem :( and MP doesn't allow cheating to get stuff done
09:58<Ammler>Hirundo: many cheats you can enable in SP and use in MP
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10:03<Zuu>Also it might be possible that the cheats has DoCommands that are network compatible but it is just that you can't bring up the window in MP, in that case it would probably be one or two lines of code to change.
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10:06<Ammler>if you play MP alone, you can't desync.
10:07<planetmaker>sure. If you run a dedicated server and one or more clients, you can desync.
10:08<planetmaker>even with non-dedicated and more than one instance of OpenTTD. Al on one computer
10:08<Ammler>well, I meant one client which is both
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10:29<OsteHovel^Atom>Is this game "English (UK)" default?
10:29<OsteHovel^Atom>like becouse i saw English (US) on the transelation page...
10:29<PeterT>all languages are on the translation page
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10:30<OsteHovel^Atom>ok ;)
10:30<TrueBrain>English UK is default, but on startup it tries to detect the right language
10:30<OsteHovel^Atom>ok ;)
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10:30<OsteHovel^Atom>Sadly my language Norwegian is just missing 2 strings...
10:31<TrueBrain>why sadly? That is a good thing :)
10:31<OsteHovel^Atom>ye... but if it has been 0% i coud have helped ;)
10:31<SirSquidness>OsteHovel^Atom: be the one to fill in those two strings and complete the set!
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10:51<OsteHovel^Atom>wow i got hello world to work on android ;)
10:52<OsteHovel^Atom>now im trying to compile openttd dedicated server ;)
10:52<OsteHovel^Atom>infact its not a big deal about android its just a gnu linux kernel on a ARM ;)
10:52<TrueBrain>then OpenTTD should work just fine
10:52<blathijs>OsteHovel^Atom: Why would you want to have a dedicated server on your phone?
10:53<TrueBrain>blathijs: for on the road! :p
10:53<blathijs>Apart from pure coolness, of course :-)
10:53<OsteHovel^Atom>becouse im gonna test if i get it working ;)
10:53<OsteHovel^Atom>before i start fissing around with SDL and suchs
10:54<blathijs>Ah, that makes sense :-)
10:54<OsteHovel^Atom>but its no point just having dedicated server on a phone.. i get that...
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10:57<PeterT>Is there anyway to do "git pull" without having to type "git pull git://"?
10:57<PeterT>you would think it remembers the repo that it originally pulled from
10:59<blathijs>PeterT: If you cloned, it should work right away
11:00<blathijs>PeterT: You could try "git remote add origin git://git...etc"
11:01<PeterT>remote origin already exisists
11:02<PeterT>then "git pull origin" outputs something like "You asked to pull from the remote 'origin', but did not specifiy a branch to merge..."
11:03<PeterT>then "git pull origin trunk" says "fatal: Couldn't find remote ref spec"
11:03<PeterT>* remote ref trunk
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11:04<PeterT>is the origin the same for all branches?
11:05<PeterT>I don't want the trunk branch to pull from fonso's git repository
11:05<blathijs>PeterT: Think so. I guess it is named "master", not "trunk"
11:05<OsteHovel^Atom>my first build diddent work so well.. it diddent work at all.. but anyway trying again with static as i forgot that the first time...
11:05<blathijs>PeterT: Uh, I think you can specify a remote per branch
11:08<PeterT>I'll have to deal with this later
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11:40<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: likely you want to pull origin/cargodist
11:42<Ammler>but doesn't the cargodist repo already have a merged branch?
11:44<Ammler>oh, he wants to update it with trunk himself :-o
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11:48<fonsinchen>forget it, petert. There are lots of changes in smallmap_gui.cpp. I have to take a closer look at it.
11:49<welshdragon>he pinged out
11:56<planetmaker>hm... the railtype documentation pages don't show up in the newgrf wiki's table of contents. And I cannot figure out how to do that
11:56<planetmaker>My assumption is, that it needs a wiki's admin intervention. Can anyone confirm that?
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12:05<jonty-comp>hmm, an OpenTTD for PocketPC 1.0 from 2005
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12:06<jonty-comp>oh, it's the esoftinteractive one
12:09<TrueBrain>dont get us start talking about that :p
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12:42<welshdragon>my BANANAS is borked
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>that grammar is weird... :p
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12:44<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: f u
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i am fine, thank you.
12:46<welshdragon>so, why can I not see the Online Content?
12:49*Hirundo grabs his crystal ball
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>most likely your firewall blocks some outgoing ports
12:49<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: it's a uni network
12:49<welshdragon>it's to be expected
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>then bad luck
13:00<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you're perfectly right. Currently the game gets easier wrt higher inflation costs
13:00<planetmaker>not much, but slightly
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 0.025**170
13:01<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 1.025**170
13:01<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 66.536065591
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 1.015**170
13:02<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 12.5668717331
13:02<@Rubidium>planetmaker: that is ofcourse excluding the loss of value of money
13:02<planetmaker>Rubidium: no
13:02<planetmaker>well... yes
13:02<@Rubidium>but yes, the profit margins are better
13:02<planetmaker>though 2.60 vs. 2.65 in 100 years is not very significant
13:03<planetmaker>@calc 2.65/2.60
13:03<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1.01923076923
13:03<planetmaker>2% more difficult in easy mode
13:04<@Rubidium>the profit margin is 2% less
13:04<@Rubidium>however, 100 in cash is only worth 96 the next year for hard or 98 for easy
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but that hardly matters with the current monetary game balance
13:05<@Rubidium>so... if you spend the income immediately 'hard' is easier, if you need wait till you have enough money hard is probably as easy as easy
13:05<@Rubidium>i.e. the extra profit cancels out the devaluation of money
13:06<planetmaker>but makes it quite not a difficulty setting :-)
13:06<@Rubidium>blame Chris
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>i think my suggestion would work...
13:06<planetmaker>bad bad Chris :-P
13:06<@Rubidium>or I would say to Christians: "that's how God wanted it"
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>especially for the bank loan the interest rate should be increased
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>currently, repaying bank loan is totally irrelevant. you just max out the loan and go on your way of earning the big bucks
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>with high loan rates, you have to look that your first lines are really profitable
13:10<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: planes ;-)
13:11<Andel>random question
13:12<Andel>how can I remove an ai in a network game
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13:26<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (106/109)**170
13:26<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.00869946299532
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'm not entirely sure what you calculated there
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>dollhouse is strange...
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>i suggest watching in this order: 1x01-12, 2x01-12, 1x13, 2x13
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r18973 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 6 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hebrew - 8 changes by dnd_man
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 12 changes by BlinK_
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 6 changes by JayCity
13:47<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: the numbers I give is what the first line says: (cost/income)^(n-1)
13:48<planetmaker>e.g. the reciproce value of what you calculated ^^
13:48<planetmaker>@calc (109/106)**100
13:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 16.2953340414
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i should concentrate a little more :p
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>and you meant "i.e.", not "e.g." ;)
13:51<planetmaker>i.e. = in exemplum. e.g. = example given. Not much difference, is there?
13:51<planetmaker>or is my dictionary wrong?
13:51<frosch123>i.e. = id est
13:52<planetmaker>he. Thx :-)
13:52<__ln__>planetmaker: e.g. = exempli gratia
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>in general, you say "i.e." for "it means" and "e.g." for "for example"
13:53<planetmaker>I should hand in my Abitur...
13:53<planetmaker>6 year Latin obviously without any effect :-P
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>Abitur has nothing to do with knowledge :p
13:53<planetmaker>s/hand in/return/
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13:55<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: "i.e." == "d.h.", "e.g." == "z.B."
13:55<planetmaker>yeah. I see that _now_ ;-)
13:55<__ln__>however... english only! not latin!
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: it's in the english dictionary, so it is english.
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>the "not <other language>" part is an imagination of yours
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>a phrase might very well be meaningful in more than one language at the same time
13:57<planetmaker>yeah, since a few years ago a freak handed in his disseration at Heidelberg university in Latin they removed that obviously old text passage in the examination rules which allowed that... They didn't find a person for a long time to examine the thesis.
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13:57<Eddi|zuHause>haha, our rules allow german or english...
13:59<planetmaker>same here
14:03<__ln__>what about the sources used in theses?
14:04<Alberth>what about them? It is allowed to reference to a source written in another languages afaik.
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14:08<__ln__>and it's no problem if an important source of yours is in Inari Sami language?
14:09<__ln__>(300..400 living speakers in the world)
14:10<planetmaker>Denying sources in other languages is like denying 90% of the world exist and can think and work scientificly
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14:12<__ln__>planetmaker: ain't that the modern approach, denying the idea that anyone writes in other than english.
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14:14<planetmaker>That's a different statement
14:16*planetmaker also writes in English
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14:19<Alberth>__ln__: I don't think that is a problem. You as author of the thesis should have no problem explaining that source.
14:19<Zuu>Sometimes you don't have English sources as an option, and only sources of <some language> are available.
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>how are you writing a thesis about early sumeria if you can't cite sumerian or babylonian sources? :p
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>especially if your thesis is about translating one of these documents
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>clearly, you aren't going to find a sumerian native speaker any time soon :p
14:22<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: what, are you saying the glorious civilization of sumeria and babylon did not use english like everyone else?!
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14:23<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: you are watching too much stargate :p
14:23<TrueBrain>or you too little
14:23<__ln__>actually i watched the movie on blu-ray a couple of days ago, but never watched a single episode of the tv series.
14:24<Zuu>Oh, is there also a stargate movie?
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: weird... because the movie actually emphasised on the language barrier, while the series ditched that for practical reasons
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: in what world are you living?
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>stargate was a movie that got turned into a series later
14:25<Zuu>Okay, I've only seen them when they are aired on TV.
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>(opposing to most other developments where a series got turned into a movie)
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14:26<Zuu>And it is more like, lets see what is on TV now, oh, nothing better than stargate, lets watch it then..
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>(like star trek, x-files, ...)
14:27<__ln__>actually i liked the movie... it's not absolutely fantastic, but better than could be expected from Roland Emmerich.
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>but if you didn't ever watch the series, you missed half of Richard Dean Anderson's carreer...
14:28<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Or those that went from a radio play to a series of books to a TV series to a towel to a movie.
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: i'm not familiar with that history...
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: from my point of view, that turned from a couple of in-jokes in programming languages to a movie :p
14:30<Prof_Frink>The original is the best.
14:31<__ln__>Zuu: there; it's even inexpensive:
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>really? i would have expected them to charge exorbitant prices for something that was released in 1992 and shown 10 times on free-tv
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14:33<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: So you wouldn't even have recognised the scene with two Marvins in
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14:33<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: no, i only heard about it from second hand
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14:35<__ln__>i started watching the movie, and for some reason subtitles weren't enabled at first, and the first things actors said were in swedish, and i was thinking wtf.
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>hm... let me search the movie...
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14:39<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: the tv recording i have here starts with a scene in egypt... how would swedish fit in there?
14:39<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: that's part of the wtf.
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14:40<__ln__>the stargate is being lifted up, and the professordude and someone else are wondering aloud what it is.
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, obviously they translated that into german...
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14:44<__ln__>see; another reason to get the american blu-ray release -- hear swedish as it was meant to.
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14:58*SpComb^ wonders at PeterT's win23 build
14:58<PeterT>which one?
14:58<SpComb^>is this 23-bit arch compatible with my 32-bit cpu?
14:59<PeterT>there, problem solved
15:01<PeterT>SpComb^: Done
15:01<SpComb^>PeterT: also, you seem to be missing source?
15:01<PeterT>What source?
15:01<PeterT>You can get the source from fonso's git repo
15:02<SpComb^>hmm... true, I guess
15:03<SpComb^>but a little iffy
15:03<SpComb^>what if fonso's git repo goes down?
15:03<PeterT>then I will stop making binaries
15:04<Andel>what was that remove ai from network game command again please someone?!
15:04<PeterT>Do you post source?
15:04<SpComb^>when I attach binaries to my build posts on tt-forums, I attach the .patch first, and then only upload the .zip once that's there :P
15:04<Andel>didn't write it down
15:04<PeterT>.patch != source
15:04*SpComb^ wonders what the `make bundle` variant for source tarballs is
15:05<PeterT>SpComb^: Patch is now at dev site
15:05<SpComb^>Andel: nananana
15:05<SpComb^>Andel: stop_ai
15:06<Andel>thanks SpComb^
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15:22<TrueBrain>hi Noldo :) Didn't you had any more to say then 'done'? I was expecting more ;) :p
15:25<Noldo>TrueBrain: sorry, I started thinking so hard I forgot to make the actual comments ;)
15:25<TrueBrain>ghehe :)
15:26<TrueBrain>so now I expect a long long email ;) :p
15:26<Noldo>(as if)
15:28<planetmaker>Concerning bananas: assume I have a newgrf with grfID=01. Can I use the same project and upload a newgrf with grfID=02 and call it a new version? Or would I have to create a new project on bananas for that?
15:28<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18974 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3578]: CMD_BUILD_ROAD missed CMD_AUTO. Also do not access tiles anymore after clearing them; that fails either in test or exec run.
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15:48<andythenorth>today is....releasey
15:49<PeterT>andythenorth: Why so?
15:49<andythenorth>new FISH, new HEQS
15:49<PeterT>new FIRS!
15:49<PeterT>new bandit!
15:50<andythenorth>FIRS gets closer to a release
15:51<PeterT>I've only played with it once
15:51<andythenorth>frosch123 et al....the 'magic tile' FF used in water industries for clearance...can that be used on land?
15:51<PeterT>I should play with FIRS, FISH, and HEQS
15:51<andythenorth>if no-one knows, I can just test.
15:51<PeterT>andythenorth: Join #OpenTTDMegaClan, we have a "clan-server" game going on which (I think) uses FISH
15:51<PeterT>it's quite fun
15:51<PeterT>it's CargoDist && IS
15:52<frosch123>andythenorth: it checks for water
15:52<frosch123>what do you want to do with it on land?
15:52<frosch123> if (gfx == GFX_WATERTILE_SPECIALCHECK) {
15:52<frosch123> if (!IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_WATER) ||
15:52<frosch123> GetTileSlope(cur_tile, NULL) != SLOPE_FLAT) {
15:52<frosch123> return false;
15:52<frosch123> }
15:52<frosch123> } else {
15:52*SpComb^ slaps frosch123 around a bit with a large pastebin
15:53<frosch123>only 6 lines
15:53<SpComb^>4 lines is the limit, anything over 5 lines is waaay too much
15:53<frosch123>i said the whole day almost nothing
15:53<frosch123>and tb already overtook me on the spam charts
15:53<SpComb^>5 lines is the limit how much you can flood in one go in the IRC protocol, usually
15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18975 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h road_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: CMD_REMOVE_ROAD is unused.
15:56<andythenorth>frosch123: I want to ensure clearance around an industry when it's built
15:56<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r18976 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Estimating the cost of removing statues could clear the presence flag in the town.
15:56<frosch123>well, it checks for water, not clear land
15:57<frosch123>else you need to use the location callback
15:57<frosch123>0x29 or so
15:57<andythenorth>I could do that, but the checks look like they would be very....intricate
15:57<frosch123>0x28 btw
15:58<andythenorth>is the water tile special check one of those 'magic' things that can't be easily extended?
15:58<frosch123>the question is, how it should be extended :)
15:59<frosch123>on land there are hundreds of things to check, like trees, fields, plain land, ...
15:59<frosch123>the water check is only there, because original oilrig uses it
15:59<andythenorth>good point
16:00<PeterT>andythenorth: Are you going to register at
16:01<andythenorth>frosch123: I need to check for house tiles, industry tiles, and maybe objects. I don't care about anything else.
16:01<frosch123>sounds like only underaged are allowed to register there
16:01<andythenorth>another way of putting it would be 'is this tile buildable?'
16:02<frosch123>andythenorth: well, use cb 28, var 62, and check the tileclass for clear, tree, ... and whatever :)
16:03<andythenorth>far as I can see, that will get me the northernmost tile, but not any others?
16:03<andythenorth>hang on, I'll screenie, it might become more obvious my intention
16:03<frosch123> <- using var 62, you can specify an signed offset relative to the north tile, and then check the "landscape class". see TileType enum
16:04<andythenorth>ok, that might do it. I wasn't sure that var would be available if the industry wasn't built. Meanwhile:
16:05<frosch123>so you would check bits 24..27, and allow only classes 0 and 4
16:05<frosch123>it is available, at least the specs say so :)
16:06<frosch123>[22:06] <andythenorth> <- you build them like that, right? that was no random
16:06<PeterT>If I want to change the revision number, do I edit, or
16:06<andythenorth>no that's what the world generator has placed
16:06<frosch123>you pass the revision to configure
16:06<frosch123>no idea about win
16:06<andythenorth>that screenie is with industry level 'normal' btw
16:07<frosch123>so, world generation likes puzzling :)
16:07<andythenorth>try building a route through that bit of landscape :|
16:11<planetmaker>PeterT: neither
16:11<andythenorth>this one is pretty epic:
16:11<planetmaker>you just configure another version
16:11<PeterT>planetmaker: Which one would I edit?
16:12<frosch123>andythenorth: hmm, if it happens that often, maybe ottd should generally not place industries next to each other
16:13<frosch123>i only encountered that problem yet with lots of ecs vectors and high industry count
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16:14<planetmaker>petert if you really want to edit the source, is the right place, though. AFAIK.
16:14<PeterT>how else could I do it with MSVC?
16:15<Zuu>You can hack the script that determines the version.
16:16<Zuu>I've used that method to play with some of my client-only patches in MP
16:16<Zuu>Indeed, that file.
16:16<andythenorth>frosch123: I can tweak down the probability for each industry, but then players who choose 'low' may not get industries built at all
16:16<+glx>no the .vbs
16:16<Zuu>Oh, and yes, glx is right about the extension
16:16<frosch123>andythenorth: those probabilities are only relative
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16:16<frosch123>you cannot control the number of industries with them, only in which ratios they appear
16:17<andythenorth>mmm....which means on some maps, with low probabilities, some industries aren't built (I tested a few weeks ago) :)
16:17<andythenorth>the 'force one instance' flag is either not infallible, or I used it wrong!
16:18<andythenorth>probability scales with map small maps have more problems
16:18<PeterT>thanks glx and Zuu
16:18<andythenorth>but if it's relative across industries, would reducing probability for industry x increase probability of industry y?
16:18<PeterT>the .vbs is changed every nightly then?
16:19<PeterT>I'm sorry, but I don't see what to change
16:19<+glx>no it does the same as
16:19<+glx>but you can also just edit the .in
16:21<Zuu>The findversion script is not updated a lot, I mainly hacked away that it added the 'M' to modified builds but still used the svn revisions.
16:21<+glx>Zuu: that one is easy :)
16:21<+glx>add a ' on a line
16:21<PeterT>I'm wondering if you could add "REVISION=rXXXXX" into the pre-processory definitions
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16:22<Zuu>PeterT: A better name of it would be to set the version string rather than the revision.
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16:22<+glx>anyway the vbs doesn't use preprocessor stuff :)
16:25<TrueBrain>who here wrote in erlang?
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16:28<PeterT>hi fonsinchen
16:29<planetmaker>if you add an "en" to the end of the question, I could answer 'yes', TrueBrain ;-). But then it'd be a town in South Germany :-P
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16:31<Alberth>TrueBrain: isn't that some form of lisp?
16:31<TrueBrain>some sort, yes
16:32<Alberth>so basically just functional programming
16:33<TrueBrain>erlang is built to give stability
16:33<TrueBrain>reloading on the fly, crashing is local, clear error handling, microthreading
16:33<TrueBrain>all native in the language
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16:37<Alberth>not sure how that makes it more stable, but ok
16:38<TrueBrain>hehe :) You can reach uptimes of 99.9999999% (Ericson) with it :p
16:38<TrueBrain>Ericson ATM have that uptime, they claim
16:38<fonsinchen>petert, isn't that r18972? You've written r18942 in the thread.
16:41<TrueBrain>whoho! OpenDUNE 0.2 is released :)
16:42<Eoin>what is this Dune
16:42<Alberth>\o/ Congratulations!!
16:42<TrueBrain>a very old game :)
16:42<Alberth>Eoin: the first RTS game
16:42<TrueBrain> for more info
16:43<Eoin>made by westwood?
16:44<Eoin>they made original C+C didnt they
16:44<TrueBrain>Dune2 is pre-C&C
16:44<TrueBrain>it is THE first RTS
16:44<Eoin>well id expect it to be good then
16:44<+glx>and yes they made C&C IIRC
16:44<planetmaker>yeah... when it came out it was like wtf? That's awesome!
16:44<ccfreak2k>They did.
16:44<ccfreak2k>Command & Conquer used the Dune 2 engine for the most part.
16:45<Eoin>you need the original
16:45<Eoin>+ the manual for security questions :D
16:45<+glx>of course :)
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17:02<PeterT>sorry about that, fon
17:02<PeterT>sorry about that, fonso
17:02<SpComb^>tsk, this is why you use a script to name your builds
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17:09<Xaroth>Eoin: the manual can be found online, paper decays :)
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17:17<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> i only encountered that problem yet with lots of ecs vectors and high industry count <-- openttd should scale back the amount of industries generated when more industry types are available, so the total number of industries is the same. like if you have 12 industry types, and generate 4 of each, you get 48. now when you have 24 industry types you should only generate 2 of each, not 4 of each, so the total is again 48
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17:37<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r18977 /trunk/src/viewport_type.h: -Doc: Add comments to ViewportDragDropSelectionProcess.
17:41<Terkhen>good night
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18:03<Luukland>Hmmmm, guys I am experiencing some trouble with modifying pricebase.h, on the current server I use, clients that joined got synced with these values, but with current trunk they dont, I also tried going back in time to r18888, but that is also not working... Might someone know what is wrong?
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause>several server-side "abuses" have been fixed in trunk...
18:08<SmatZ>like r18950
18:08<SmatZ>but you say even r18888 doesn't work... then I don't know
18:09<Luukland>Might be the new libary
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18:10<Luukland>I am trying to run some nice servers here, but you dev's seem to be working hard onto fixing the holes we use in our server settings to make the game more interesting
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>lzo is only used for very old savegames
18:10<SmatZ>anyway, quite long time ago, frosch changed the behaviour of prices
18:10<SmatZ>they are no longer saved in savegame, and are computed from base price and inflation
18:11<SmatZ>you should use BasePriceMod (or so) GRF
18:12<TrueBrain>quote of the day: STOP FIXING THE SECURITY HOLES! :p
18:13<Luukland>Well I wouldn't call it SECURITY holes, I would call it settings to make the game interesting
18:13<Luukland>Is there a way to file for an objection against a certain change in source?
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>"lack of boundary checking" is quite certainly a "security" hole
18:13<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: don't call it like that, before you know it, it is a CVE again :p
18:14<TrueBrain>Luukland: sure: :)
18:14*SmatZ readies his "Deny" button
18:14<TrueBrain>it is his freedom to complain, our freedom to deny :)
18:15<SmatZ>I suppose that thing won't be reverted, as it simplified game logic
18:15<TrueBrain>there are more legit ways to alter those values :)
18:16<Luukland>Well if you just click deny it has no point in making an entry is there?
18:17<SmatZ>I can't promise anything
18:18<Luukland>But you forgot to fix some other bugs then guys, I can now create a game, which after saving and reloading, has totally different settings
18:18<Luukland>due to the "running costs and inflation" calculation
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18:20<SmatZ>can it cause crash?
18:21<SmatZ>forcing values to be in bounds solved possible crashes from modified savegames
18:21<Luukland>if you enable certain values; e.g. only the price values to be out of bounds
18:21<Luukland>I do not see how a crash can occure
18:22<Luukland>yet all other values might be hazardous
18:22<SmatZ>some setting values are used to index an array
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18:22<SmatZ>so if they were out of bounds, it could cause invalid memory access
18:22<Luukland>I am not familiar with the term "array"
18:23<SmatZ>nevermind :)
18:23<Luukland>are u referring to int with numbers higher than amount of bites available?
18:24<Zuu>He is refering to having a list of thing. For example a list of vehicles. Then you use an index to access eg vehicle # 3.
18:25<Zuu>If you change that index to be greater than the last vehicle in the list you will try to access something that does not exist.
18:25<Zuu>In C++ you will try to access memory that is used by something else.
18:26<Luukland>I see, but I do not speak of making extra entries, I am just speaking of solid values
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>Luukland: fact is, you have actually no clue, if your changed values are affecting other things deep in the code that you are not aware of
18:27<TrueBrain>besides all that .. there is a legit way of changing those values, and he wants to do it via a non-legit way .. the solution seems obvious to me :)
18:27<Zuu> The problem that SmatZ is talking about is that if you change the value of something, that value might be used as an index in an array at some place in the code.
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>and "but we never had problems" is not an argument
18:28<Luukland>Eddi, you are taking it personal again, please be kind
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>this is not personal, it's an absolutely objective observation...
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>_nobody_, not even the devs, can guarantee anything like that
18:29<@Rubidium>yeah, MiniIN doesn't desync
18:29<Luukland>We could donate to you the patch that made it possible to change these settings, from cfg and advanced settings
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18:29<Luukland>If you could include it of course, everyone could use the settings they like
18:30<Luukland>why need a newgrf if it can be coded (in an easy way)
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>why code it if you can provide a newgrf (in an easy way)?
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>don't even need permission from a dev for a newgrf
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>and it's guaranteed to work in the future
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18:32<Luukland>The patch I am talking about makes it easier for the user to select their settings (favorite)
18:33<Luukland>a newgrf would require the knowledge of parameters, and could prove to be quite difficult if willing to change minor values of 48 solids
18:33<TrueBrain>so we need a website which makes such a grf
18:33<TrueBrain>seems easy to do :)
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, please, post the patch to the usual places and be prepared for a "yet another advanced setting" discussion...
18:34<Luukland>Truebrain, then again, creating a patch would solve the need of a grf AND a website
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>but you have the right to remain silent. every word that you say from now can be used against you.
18:35<TrueBrain>Luukland: let me think .. an already available legit way, or yet another hack to allow something ..hmm ...
18:35<Zuu>TrueBrain: Integrate that grf website with bananas and you have a killer service :-)
18:35<TrueBrain>Zuu: agree'd :)
18:35<TrueBrain>even better, integrate it with OpenTTD client :p
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>and integrate a word and spreadsheet application as well, while you're at it
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>and a google toolbar :p
18:36<TrueBrain>consider it done :)
18:36<Zuu>Including a human interface where you must type your wishes starting with "Oh OpenTTD I wish a NewGRF that ..." :-)
18:37<rait>please don't :)
18:37<TrueBrain>rait: you think we are serious .. why? :p
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>mirror, mirror on the wall
18:37<rait>yeah i soo tought you are serious :D
18:37<TrueBrain>just checking ;)
18:37<Zuu>Why not just integrate OpenTTD in emacs instead?
18:38<TrueBrain>I already have a patch which allows OpenTTD to do HTTP calls .. so why not add a browser?
18:38<TrueBrain>bit of HTML rendering ... allows all kinds of cool services :)
18:38<TrueBrain>or look at Alberth to extend the GUI to load XML data? :p
18:39<+glx>yeah like clickable url in newgrf description
18:39<Luukland>So all this was a joke TrueBrain? I am confused...
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: but please also CSS
18:39*Zuu points at the FS task regarding detecting default browsers
18:39<rait>why don't you just replace all these little busses and stuff with moving flash applets? :)
18:39<TrueBrain>it is all a joke .. OpenTTD is a joke
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>the cake is a lie.
18:40<TrueBrain>we should follow FreeCIV, and allow the client via the website
18:40<TrueBrain>then we too can make HTML5 benchmarks!
18:40<TrueBrain>(which have nothing to do with HTML5 .. more with Javascript :p)
18:41<Zuu>Or why not add an IRC client to OpenTTD ... hmm, but do we really want all OpenTTD users in this channel? :-p
18:41<TrueBrain>we put them in #openttd.losers
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>we also totally need a youtube interface, so people can export their games as videos, or download and watch tutorials
18:41<Coco-Banana-Man>only 22 more users will fit here :P
18:41<TrueBrain>and then we have to start paying?
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>Coco-Banana-Man: you know the limit is only to prevent join-floods
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18:42<Zuu>hmm, that is a good use of your HTTP patch, add SSL support so we can integrate it with a credit card payment form. :-)
18:43<TrueBrain>and after payment, you can use SO MUCH MORE COOL FEATURES!
18:43<TrueBrain>like changing the base price ingame!
18:43<TrueBrain>without NewGRF!
18:43<TrueBrain>(now I am just mocking :p)
18:43<Zuu>Yea, like requiring them to pay to use the cheat dialog.
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>pay real money to get more ingame money!!
18:44<Zuu>Indeed that must be a good idea with full curency support.
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>10€ will get you one time use of the money cheat
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>we will get soooo rich
18:45<Zuu>And don't forget to change for landscaping. :-)
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>exponentially! :p
18:45<Luukland>Ah well, I will consult with the Server team first what our next step will be ;)
18:45<Luukland>Thx for the info guys!
18:45<TrueBrain>any time
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18:46<TrueBrain>I love my job :)
18:47<Yexo>I didn't read all of the discussion, but is he still complaining about r18950?
18:47<TrueBrain>yup; that was the whole topic
18:48<Yexo>haha, cool :)
18:48<TrueBrain>you do know he always has one topic between joins/leaves, right?
18:48<Yexo>but I joined half-way the topic
18:49<@Rubidium>troll'n'whine while being stupid'n'arrogant
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18:51<Zuu>Hi Yexo, as you might have seen at FS#3496 I've been able to suspend the AI just after the AILog call. I do this by using 100 000 opcodes. Do you have a better idea? I've seen there is a sq_suspendvm but it doesn't seam to actually suspend the AI.
18:52<Yexo>you could check for AIObject::CanSuspend() and if that returns true then throw AI_Suspend()
18:52<Yexo>or something like that, check AIController::Sleep()
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18:53<Yexo>but your solution is better, with your solution it'll suspend as soon as possible
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18:53<Zuu>I think I do call CanSuspend() before using the opcodes
18:54<Yexo>you could always use the opcodes
18:55<Yexo>instead of using 100.000 opcode you could use the setting for it
18:55<TrueBrain>k .. I need to get some sleep .. enough for me to wake up tomorrow morning very early, not enough so I can sleep during class ...
18:55<Zuu>A cleaner solution than using 100 000 opcodes would be to check the setting of how many opcodes that are allowed per tick and use that amount.
18:55<TrueBrain>night all :)
18:55<PeterT>Good night, TrueBrain
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18:55<PeterT>Good luck
18:55<Zuu>Yexo: Indeed (regarding the setting), I just didn't knew where to look for the setting or at what level I would find it.
18:55<Zuu>Ok thanks.
18:55<Yexo>include settings_type.h if it doesn't compile
18:55<@Rubidium>night TrueBrain
18:56<Yexo>gn TrueBrain
18:56<Zuu>Okay, I'll save our conversation and look into it later as I need to get to beed soon, and if I would start coding I would not get to bed any time soon. ;-)
18:57<Yexo>good idea
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18:57<Yexo>I'm off to bed too :)
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18:57<Yexo>good night everyone
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18:57<Zuu>Night Yexo
18:57<SpComb^>where's all the love thy neighbour in this channel :(
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18:58<PeterT>I love you SpComb^
19:00<@Rubidium>SpComb^: not everyone's my neighbour
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: and if "neighbour" means "lives on the same planet"?
19:03<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: then it's time to leave that planet
19:05-!-Mks [] has quit []
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>so then... all we need is a rocket scientist
19:08<@Rubidium>nah, a knive will do too
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19:09<rait>how do you physically leave the planet with a knife?
19:10<@Rubidium>by dying I ascent to a higher plane
19:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r18978 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3584](r14753): possible invalid memory access when merging companies
19:11<@Rubidium>hmm, dieing?
19:11<SpComb^>Rubidium: ruled by the guy that came up with this "love thy neighbour" rule
19:12<@Rubidium>another solution would be to cancel the "living" of the "neighbour"
19:12<rait>ascension? some kind of reference to a certain sci-fi series?
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19:13<Eddi|zuHause>rait: no, we had enough discussion about that sci-fi series for one day :p
19:13<rait>depending on the timezone you might have had it yesterday :)
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19:14<Eddi|zuHause>days don't end on midnight in my world
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>days end when i go to sleep...
19:15<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that depends on the definition of midnight; if midnight is in the middle of your sleep it does
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: statistically, 0:00 CET does hardly ever fall in the period of time that i'm asleep
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>just look at the irc stats ;)
19:17<@Rubidium>#define midnight(eddi) (((eddi).begin_sleep + (eddi).end_sleep) / 2)
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19:22<@Rubidium>wow, that was a short powernap :)
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>aah... quiet...
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>no, i turned off the other computer
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19:23<Eddi|zuHause>really, it's several orders of magnitude louder than the old one
19:25*Rubidium wonders whether that's also the case when comparing the loudness in dBs
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>i don't have a noise-meter
19:27<SpComb^>someone remind me why I would want to play multiplayer online with random people
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue...
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19:42<SpComb^>why is there a server listed? :P
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19:47<@Rubidium>that sounds unlikely
19:47<PeterT>I've had that before
19:48<@Rubidium>it isn't the master server's list
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22:15<Nite_Owl>Hello all
22:15<PeterT>Evening, Nite_Owl
22:15<PeterT>How're you doing?
22:15<Nite_Owl>Hello PeterT - I am fine - How are you?
22:15<PeterT>I'm good
22:15<PeterT>How is florida this evening?
22:16<Nite_Owl>Nice and cool
22:16<PeterT>I might be going on vacation there
22:16<Nite_Owl>this is the time of year for it
22:17<Nite_Owl>although we did have a nasty cold snap a few weeks back
22:17<PeterT>really? during the winter?
22:18<Nite_Owl>much too hot and humid during the summer
22:18<PeterT>Where do you recommend I go, Nite_Owl?
22:18<Nite_Owl>actually not all that hot but the humidity is a killer
22:18<Nite_Owl>depends on what you are looking for
22:19<Nite_Owl>more adult good times - go to Miami
22:19<Nite_Owl>family stuff - go to Orlando
22:20<PeterT>I've been to Orlando
22:20<PeterT>nice place
22:20<Nite_Owl>of course almost any of the beaches are nice
22:33<PeterT>I'm off for the night
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23:11<Diablo-D3>that 32bit graphics thing looks nice
23:18<Diablo-D3>you know
23:19-!-sparr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:19<Diablo-D3>some of these newgfx packs should be in by default
23:21<Diablo-D3>like there should be multiple temperate zones
23:21<Diablo-D3>american, european, and japanese
23:21<Diablo-D3>or something like that
23:21<Diablo-D3>so people can build different graphic sets =P
23:21<Diablo-D3>without having to install newgfx packs
23:22<Diablo-D3>hey guys, what do I install if I want AI players?
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 01 00:00:15 2010