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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-05

---Logopened Fri Feb 05 00:00:18 2010
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00:45<kd5pbo>So, OpenTTD keeps momentarily pausing on the first of every month.
00:45<kd5pbo>I'm hosting a dedicated server, and have connected to that server (from another client).
00:45<kd5pbo>I'm the only client.
00:45<kd5pbo>Any idea what could be causing this?
00:46<ccfreak2k>Autosave.
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00:47<kd5pbo>It's set to autosave yearly, I think.
00:48<kd5pbo>It's a lot like autosave, though.
00:49<kd5pbo>Can I edit that variable while a game is in progress?
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00:51<ccfreak2k>If you can, it'd be a console command.
01:00<kd5pbo>Got it, I think.
01:00<kd5pbo>setting gui.autosave 0
01:00<kd5pbo>I think.
01:01<kd5pbo>Uh, are there any known security holes in OpenTTD?
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01:02<ccfreak2k>testblitspeed yields 119FPS.
01:02<roboboy>hello
01:03<kd5pbo>roboboy: hi.
01:03<kd5pbo>ccfreak2k: ?
01:03<ccfreak2k>kd5pbo, I'm running SDL tests on the gamecube.
01:03<kd5pbo>Ah.
01:03<ccfreak2k>With a 640x480 bmp input, it blits at 119 FPS.
01:03<kd5pbo>How do you run OpenTTD on the gamecube?
01:04<ccfreak2k>You don't...yet.
01:04<kd5pbo>Also, what is blitting?
01:04<kd5pbo>Has someone managed to put Linux on the gamecube?
01:04<ccfreak2k>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_blit
01:04<ccfreak2k>There's a GC linux yes.
01:05<kd5pbo>Oh, cool.
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01:09<ccfreak2k>http://img707.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap8769384.png/
01:09<ccfreak2k>Here's what it looks like before mounting the root partition.
01:11<ccfreak2k>http://img231.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap2010020422h05m36.png/
01:11<ccfreak2k>And here's the blit test.
01:11<roboboy>hm I might look into getting one of those things to boot linux on my GC
01:11<ccfreak2k>You'd definitely want a Wii then.
01:12<kd5pbo>That having been said, what do you do with Linux on a Wii or Gamecube?
01:12<ccfreak2k>Whatever you'd do on any other set top box.
01:12<kd5pbo>Yeah, but how's the hardware of a wii?
01:13<ccfreak2k>2x that of a GameCube.
01:13<ccfreak2k>Plus wireless controllers and USB support.
01:13<kd5pbo>True.
01:13<kd5pbo>I have a linux box.
01:13<roboboy>could you theoretically run OpenTTD for linux on the GC if you booted linux
01:13<kd5pbo>I haven't come up with anything to do with it yet.
01:14<ccfreak2k>roboboy, you could, or you could cut out the middle man and port OpenTTD to GC.
01:14<roboboy>of course
01:14<kd5pbo>roboboy: I'd guess you could probably run a dedicated server without much problem.
01:14<ccfreak2k>That's what I'm aiming for.
01:14<roboboy>which would be better and more efficient
01:14<kd5pbo>ccfreak2k: How would you distribute it?
01:14<ccfreak2k>Probably as a binary.
01:14<ccfreak2k>And a patch of course.
01:15<kd5pbo>You could make it wiiware.
01:15<kd5pbo>That would be cool.
01:15<kd5pbo>Also would help keep the openttd site funded.
01:15<ccfreak2k>I don't have a Wii, so I couldn't even if I wanted to.
01:16<kd5pbo>Oh.
01:16<kd5pbo>Bummer.
01:16<kd5pbo>The wiimote would work really well for input.
01:16<ccfreak2k>Yeah probably.
01:16<ccfreak2k>Use the D-pad or nunchuck stick to scroll, one of the buttons for a mouse click.
01:17<ccfreak2k>One of these days I'll figure out where Vector is supposed to be defined so I can fix the gl2gx wrapper. That would allow OpenGL code to be ported.
01:17<kd5pbo>Vector?
01:18<kd5pbo>Also, what's gx?
01:18<ccfreak2k>GX is the graphics subsystem for the GameCube and Wii. It's sort of similar to OpenGL, but not quite.
01:18<kd5pbo>Oh.
01:19<kd5pbo>Unrelated question: Is there any way to influence in what directions cities grow?
01:19<ccfreak2k>Buy land in the direction you don't want them to grow?
01:19<kd5pbo>If I build a bunch of stations on one end of town and none on the other, will the town grow that way?
01:19<ccfreak2k>AFAIK, they grow radially and equal in all directions.,
01:19<kd5pbo>Rats.
01:20<kd5pbo>Thanks.
01:22<kd5pbo>We'll see how blocking the town works.
01:22<kd5pbo>I've it set to build roads in a 3x3 grid.
01:22<kd5pbo>So, I blocked every fourth square.
01:23<ccfreak2k>I would just make a solid wall perpendicular to the direction you want to inhibit.
01:24<kd5pbo>I would, but I don't have that much cashflow yet.
01:24<ccfreak2k>If you can fit it, you could try making bridges over the blocks that you're taking.
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01:24<ccfreak2k>Or tunnels.
01:24<kd5pbo>Why not just buy them?
01:24<kd5pbo>Would bridges be cheaper?
01:24<ccfreak2k>Beats me.
01:24<ccfreak2k>However you want to do it.
01:25<kd5pbo>Well, we'll see if blocking the roads works.
01:25<ccfreak2k>You can also just skip that if you don't expect any of your trucks to take said bridges anyway.
01:25<kd5pbo>Not likely, no.
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01:25<roboboy>do GC/Wii/DS share anything in common?
01:26<roboboy>hardware wise and coding wise?
01:26<ccfreak2k>GameCube and Wii are very closely related in hardware.
01:26<kd5pbo>I can't imagine the SDK hasn't changed, though.
01:26<roboboy>but not DS?
01:26<ccfreak2k>For example, it's speculated that the CPUs are -identical-, with the Wii CPU being a die shrink.
01:26<kd5pbo>Do you have a copy of the GC SDK?
01:26<ccfreak2k>The Nintendo DS is closer to the GBA in hardware.
01:27<ccfreak2k>I'm not at liberty to discuss if I do or don't have the Nintendo Dolphin SDK.
01:27<ccfreak2k>I CAN, however, say I have devkitPPC, which is the defacto homebrew toolkit.
01:27<roboboy>I knew that. It is basically a suped up GBA with 2 (?) processors one for GBA games and one for DS games
01:28<ccfreak2k>ARM and PPC are completely different, and about ten years ago, they had totally different markets.
01:29<roboboy>ah yeah thats right GC is PPC and GB(A)/DS is ARM
01:29<roboboy>have you looked at the DS port to see if there is anything of use in it for a GC port?
01:30<ccfreak2k>Technically speaking, the CPU found in the GameCube is a mod of a mod of a PPC 750, which is a G3. I had one in my PowerMac.
01:30<ccfreak2k>The DS port would be of limited use except to see how they handled an "embedded" situation/controller support.
01:31<ccfreak2k>In those instances, it would be quite useful.
01:31<ccfreak2k>Also, the original GameBoy and kin used Z80s under the hood, which IIRC shares a lot of its arch with the Intel 8080.
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01:33<roboboy>I think I read that as well
01:38<roboboy>grr its gone quiet in here
01:38*roboboy ponders watching tv
01:40<kd5pbo>roboboy: Play OpenTTD :)
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04:11<SmatZ>[10:08:24] <Yexo> [03:20:13] <SmatZ> like... lim (x->0) (1/x - 1/x) = lim(x->0) (0/x) <- I'm not seeing how that works <== yeah, it was completely broken
04:11<SmatZ>not that part, but the latter
04:11<SmatZ>good thing I went to bed :-p
04:12<SmatZ>my thinking was broken...
04:13<Noldo>what was it about?
04:17<SmatZ>[03:15:41] <PeterT> would the same thing apply to (1/0)-(1/0)=0?
04:17<planetmaker>hehe. The limit lim (x->0) (1/x - 1/x) = 0, but 1/0 - 1/0 is and remains undefined
04:17<SmatZ>of course with limits, it would be lim (x->0+) ( (1/0)-(1/0) )= ... = 0
04:18<SmatZ> lim (x->0-) ( (1/0)-(1/0) )= ... = 0
04:18<SmatZ>so lim (x->0) ( (1/x)-(1/x) )=0
04:18<SmatZ>errr... s:1/0:1/x:
04:18<planetmaker>uhm... you must not write it that way. You must never write 0 in the denominator. It will remain undefined
04:19<planetmaker>only valid expression is lim (x->0) 1/x = 0
04:19<planetmaker>err.... oo
04:19<SmatZ>:)
04:19<planetmaker>and thus lim (x->0) (1/x - 1/x) = 0
04:20<planetmaker>limits can be soooo much fun ;-)
04:21<SmatZ>:)
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04:22<SmatZ>[03:17:57] <SmatZ> then... it differs for x->0+ and x->0- <== this is not true, I don't know why I said that :-p
04:22<planetmaker>hehe. Indeed in the shown case it shouldn't make a difference.
04:23<planetmaker>but if x>0 by definition it helps to use a slightly modified formula:
04:23<planetmaker>1/(x+epsilon) with a tiny, but fixed and defined epsilon > 0. It avoids catastrophes with infinity
04:24<jonty-comp>mmm, infinity
04:24<planetmaker>but then it destroys logarithmic analysis - which can be bad, too
04:25<planetmaker>alas... back to statistical analysis ;-)
04:25*andythenorth has an idea for allowing industry tiles to be overbuilt by rail / road / objects / buildings. Before I incur waste writing it up, is this simply impossible?
04:27<SmatZ>;-)
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04:35<bartavelle>hello
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04:49<Noldo>planetmaker, SmatZ: what is the context?
04:49<Noldo>why are you playing with limits
04:50-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
04:51<Terkhen>good morning
05:02<planetmaker>andythenorth, if you want a tile to be both, industry + rail: seems to me like near-impossible
05:02<planetmaker>as both tile types on their own already use much of the map array.
05:03<planetmaker>Noldo, I have no idea. I play with them for the joy of pure math
05:03<planetmaker>and good morning Terkhen :-)
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05:11<jonty-comp>ouf, I missed jQuery 1.4 being released
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05:47<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19015 /trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt: -Update: Vietnamese language settings
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06:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: something similar might be useful for road stations, e.g. for allowing certain parts of a tram station be filled with roads
06:06-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>the huge problem is map space, though
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06:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'll write up my proposal later and see if it's rubbish or not
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06:51<TrueBrain>first make BaNaNaS better :p
06:51<andythenorth>TrueBrain: first I'll do some work work :)
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06:52<TrueBrain>work work is boring
06:53<jonty-comp>that's why you just pretend to do it
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>it must be by definition, else it would be fun work
06:53<jonty-comp>or spend ~60% of your time waiting for the computer, like I do
06:54<jonty-comp>my boss offered to buy a new workstation that did things much faster, but I politely declined
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07:01<SpComb^>jonty-comp: just de-prioritize all the important processes and run some idle load
07:01<bartavelle>play DF
07:01<bartavelle>should eat all your CPU alright
07:02<bartavelle>ah wrong channel, yet useful advice
07:02<SpComb^>dwarf fortress?
07:02<bartavelle>yes
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08:22<Eddi|zuHause>Feature request for railtypes: a custom icon in the station name for each railtype
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08:23<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: like http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/icons.png / http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/railicons.diff ?
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08:24<Eddi|zuHause>no, in the stations, where the train/bus/plane/ship icons are
08:24<@Rubidium>oh, guess you're going to need to add heliport, tram etc too
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>so you could have different symbol for electrified trains or monorails
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that should be possible to extend ;)
08:26<@peter1138>hm
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08:28<@Rubidium>I think that the difference between the different station icons would become really small, especially if you do the tram stuff too
08:29<@Rubidium>like, what's the difference between electrified and high speed electrified rail? Or rail with 10t axle limit vs 20t axle limit?
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: a newgrf can choose not to provide a custom icon, or to reuse one from another railtype?
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>ever since the original TT it annoyed me that monorail stations have the same steam engine icon as normal rail
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Tram.png <-- a proposed icon that i made a few years ago
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08:33<Neon>join #recht
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08:34<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but you need to differentiate between pax and cargo trams, right?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>/fail
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i have never seen an icon for a cargo tram anywhere...
08:34<@peter1138>make one ;)
08:34<@Rubidium>also: how to handle the icons in the MP lobby?
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... interesting question
08:36<@Rubidium>cause they don't have the e.g. vacuum tube train graphics
08:36<@Rubidium>actually, they wouldn't even know what the different numbers would mean
08:37<@peter1138>does it matter?
08:38<@peter1138>they're still trains
08:38<@peter1138>win 22
08:38<@peter1138>fail 22 :s
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>hm... does the icon above load for anybody?
08:43<@peter1138>yes
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>then why doesn't it for me?
08:51<__ln__>alternative tram icons: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramline.png http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/ottd/tramline2.png
08:52<__ln__>(do they even differ, can't see)
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08:59<@peter1138>missing the shadow, pfft
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: it still looks ugly...
09:00<__ln__>thanks
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that's the entire reason why i made the above icon in the first placce
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>-c
09:01<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: but we agree on the basic idea that tram stops should have an icon that distinguishes them from bus stops?
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes. of course
09:02<__ln__>great.
09:03<__ln__>so... could that icon possibly be added to some standard grf file
09:04*Rubidium points at the MP lobby problem
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>the one that provides the tram rails, of course
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: if the data is not available at the MP lobby, then stick to the original icons?
09:05<@Rubidium>but then the meaning of the icons differ, which means inconsistency and the consistency guys filing bug reports and the like
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: not only would you need the railtype icons, you'd also have to gather and transfer the data for each railtype
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>i think the MP lobby is not worth the effort
09:06<Noldo>why is the MP lobby icon the same as the station icon in the first place?
09:07<@Rubidium>because the lobby uses it to list the number of different types of stations?
09:07<Noldo>great
09:07<@Rubidium>so using the same typing as 'in-game' would be the most logical
09:08<@peter1138>i think that's just awkward myself
09:09<@peter1138>now, why does my snmp tftp upload script not work? :S
09:09<SpComb^>TFTP over SNMP
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: it's perfectly logical that not all data is available from a game that you haven't joined yet
09:10<@Rubidium>true, though I don't fancy duplicating code for that
09:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: terkhen * r19016 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3591]: When removing roads, the player was also charged for removing the foundations.
09:13<__ln__>for those who prefer specific enough pizza recipes: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2008:040:0017:01:EN:HTML (can replace EN with your favorite language code)
09:15<@Belugas>hi there
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09:52<__ln__>hello B
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10:37<Eddi|zuHause>german pizzas are generally rectangular, because they fit better in regular kitchen ovens that way
10:37<Prof_Frink>How very efficient.
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>that goes against the traditional german saying "Das Runde muß in das Eckige"
10:38<@Rubidium>actually, round pizzas work better in my oven
10:39-!-Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>(it's a famous footballer quotation, "the round [thing] must go into the [rect-]angular [thing]")
10:42<@Rubidium>so the ROUND! pizza must go into the rectangular oven
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's a contradiction.
10:47-!-TheRealNeon [~Neon@88.69.207.108] has quit [Quit: reboot]
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>random thought: when the used bandwidth is calculated/billed on a monthly basis, one should release 1.0.0 in the middle of the month, so the subsequent spike splits over more than one month
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10:52<TrueBrain>with themirrors in place, nothing to worry :)
10:52<TrueBrain>BaNaNaS is mirrored nicely
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: you said that same thing about the one-server-bandwidth only one year ago ;)
10:53<TrueBrain>I am very sorry we are growing faster than expected
10:53<TrueBrain>who would have guessed :p
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>640kB are enough for everybody ;)
10:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: either way, the amount of bandwidth we now produce is very little (relative against what we serve)
10:56<TrueBrain>(still 20 GB/day, but okay :p)
10:56-!-welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd
10:57<TrueBrain>maybe for 2.0 we need another talk with Leaseweb :p
10:57<SpComb^>would Leaseweb bill you for extra traffic?
10:57<TrueBrain>no idea if they really would, no intensions of finding out :)
11:02<@peter1138>how often are the mirrors synced now that bananas is mirrored?
11:02<TrueBrain>for now, BaNaNaS is pushed manual
11:02<TrueBrain>the rest still on new release
11:02<TrueBrain>when ever I have the time, BaNaNaS will be synced every new upload (with N minutes grey period), or something similar
11:03<@peter1138>*nod*
11:06<TrueBrain>BaNaNaS doesn't have to be in sync (the http and our own protocol), so no real rush :)
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11:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19017 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.hpp: -Doc: [NoAI] A parameter wasn't documented
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11:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19018 /trunk/ (Makefile.in Makefile.lang.in config.lib): -Change: [Makefile] Make test an alias for regression, distclean an alias for mrproper and update mrproper to really delete all generated files/directories.
11:20<TrueBrain>what to eat tonight .. hmm ..
11:20<TrueBrain>choices choices choices
11:21<@Rubidium>quiche!
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11:27<Eddi|zuHause>"Hackepeter"
11:27-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@79.88.148.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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11:29<TrueBrain>PIZZA!!!
11:30<Prof_Frink>Round or square?
11:30<Alberth>Partying already?
11:30<TrueBrain>ROUND!!
11:30-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
11:39<TrueBrain>only insane people make square pizzas
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>i never met a sane person...
11:44<TrueBrain>let me introduce myself
11:45<TrueBrain>WHERE IS MY PIZZA!!
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>HAHA, great joke :p
11:45<TrueBrain>joke?
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you need to dial 0800-PIZZA?
11:52-!-Hackykid [~quassel@wlan-199217.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd
11:53<Alberth>then TB has starved before they deliver :)
11:55<SmatZ>mmmm pizza
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12:03<valhallasw>TrueBrain: ah, so that's where my pizza came from
12:05<Ammler>does btw. http://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk support specific (older) nightlies?
12:06<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r19019 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use HasExactlyOneBit() and HasAtMostOneBit() instead of CountBits() where possible
12:06<@Rubidium>Ammler: yes, just add /r<rev>
12:07<Ammler>cool, thanks :-)
12:26<TrueBrain>works for all urls there, stable, testing, branches, ...
12:26-!-JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:26<TrueBrain>valhallasw: yeah, I ordered one for you, thought it would be a nice thing to do
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13:00<@peter1138>prrrffffft
13:02<@Belugas>quite
13:03<@peter1138>i mention callbacks and it all goes quiet
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13:19<@Belugas>:)
13:19<@Belugas>they'll "call back"
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13:29<@peter1138>heh
13:29-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:29<@peter1138>i mean on the rail types thread :)
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13:31<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: shouldn't that callback be called also when a new engine gets available?
13:32<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, that also happens to be monthly
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: even when nobody accepts the prototype, the railtype gets available?
13:35<@peter1138>point
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13:44<@Belugas>some of the people of that thread (at least mb) do understand the mechanism.
13:44<@Belugas>maybe they just are thinking about it
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19020 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: basque - 125 changes by Thadah
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 8 changes by UnderwaterHesus
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: danish - 8 changes by beruic, silentStatic
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by SupSuper
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 6 changes by kkmic
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14:16<Singaporekid>dopefish lives
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14:47<Ammler>He, looks like OpenTTD has at least a intro sound. :-)
14:49<Bluelight>Sid Meier's Railroads makes program errors.. :p
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>why should that bother us?
14:50<Bluelight>It's based on TTD.... :p
14:51<@Rubidium>like Windows is based on DOS, right?
14:51<Bluelight>He he..
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>more like windows is based on macos ;)
14:52-!-rait [~rait@82.131.24.220.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
14:52<aber>like the dock in Windows 7?
14:53<Bluelight>It's no fun playing OpenTTD when my server wont get publicly available..
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>like "we took the mac interface and stripped it down just enough to not be accused for infringement" [statemant about windows 1.0]
14:53<Bluelight>I can play on Luukland's but after a while I get disconnected.. and is unable to join..
14:55-!-Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
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14:58<aber>I put a mac binary on my homepage, if someone has some critic, just let me know... wolkentempel.de/openttd.html
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>make sure the "COPYING" file is in the package, and you have a link to the source somewhere
14:59*Rubidium wonders whether it does work on 10.3.9
15:00<@Rubidium>oh, only 64 bits Intel :)
15:01<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: given the name it looks like he might've used make bundle_dmg
15:04<@Rubidium>nevertheless, it's missing the sources or at least the patch of the first one is missing
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15:09<andythenorth>hi hi
15:11<Terkhen>hi andythenorth
15:15<Bluelight>My computer is flickering.. Need a reboot.. :p
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15:18<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19021 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix [FS#3570]: don't NULL the pointers when saving the savegame on an error during saving; the savegame is still valid
15:19<Bluelight>Back..
15:19<@Rubidium>..fronT
15:20-!-Zahl_ [~Zahl@2002:4e34:4a84:1:90e9:5f17:99f9:95f6] has joined #openttd
15:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19022 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r18770): loading old (0.1-ish) savegames failed
15:22<@peter1138>i have so many of them :s
15:23<@Belugas>sell them! you'll have a new synth in no flat :D
15:23<@Belugas>"whooooo... savegames by a dev! worth... 10 euros!"
15:23<@Belugas>each
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15:24<@peter1138>with luck, i've won the euromillions...
15:25-!-woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd
15:26<@Belugas>pour un p'tit deux, fait un voeu
15:27-!-Zahl [~Zahl@2002:4e33:5bef:1:90e9:5f17:99f9:95f6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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15:31<aber>I added a source package and a patch file.
15:36<aber>This is gnu
15:41<Bluelight>Ok, I've now tried uninstalling and installing OpenTTD again.. and I still can't get my server working correctly.. :p
15:41<frosch123>hmm, did i already told that my ceo today send a 10 mib email to about 300 employees :p
15:42<planetmaker>that may or may not for good reason. But probably not ;-)
15:42-!-Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-21-140.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
15:44<frosch123>shortly followed by a mail from the head admin, that the content was uploaded to the wiki, and asking everyone to delete the mail and not store anywhere backup-relevant :)
15:44-!-Zuu [Zuu@c-60f5e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>what's a veou?
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>voeu?
15:45<frosch123>"vi" for austrians?
15:45-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
15:46<Zuu>"settings" in windows that are persistent during one run-time but not stored in the config are there a standard procedure of doing these?
15:47<Bluelight>Can someone heal my server?
15:47<Zuu>I'm think I'll make the match case button persistent over opening/closing of the sign list window in my patch for that window as well as the break string in my AI debug window patch
15:47-!-phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:47<Zuu>heal? has it become injured?
15:47<Bluelight>He he,,, Yeah.. :p It doesnt work for some weird reason..
15:48<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: my french dictionary has no problem with it
15:48<aber>voeu == vow
15:48<Bluelight>It did work before, and I don't see any change from then to now other then that it just wont work..
15:48<frosch123>"vœu" that is
15:48<Zuu>Bluelight: How does it not work?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>that might be, but my french vocabulary is missing it...
15:49<Bluelight>Well, it's not visible in the server list..
15:49<Zuu>port forwarding, firewall?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>and it sounds like a fixed phrase that has some special meaning not covered by the words themselves...
15:50<Bluelight>Well after my best ability the ports are open/forwarded..
15:50<Bluelight>all ports
15:50<Zuu>did you change anything in your router (if you have one), your firewall or changed the port that OpenTTD listens to.
15:50<Bluelight>No, no change..
15:50<TrueBrain>again?
15:50<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it is very likely a fixed phrase in various religious contexts, but likely a different one for all of them :p
15:51<Bluelight>I'm starting to get crazy here.. :p
15:51<Zuu>Bluelight: Did you wait 5 minutes from that you started your server until you checked the server list?
15:51<Bluelight>Yeah
15:51<@Belugas>vow... wish, rather
15:51<aber>vœu de chasteté
15:51<Bluelight>now I don't even get the query messages that I got before..
15:51<Zuu>Bluelight: Do you have more than one computer in your network?
15:52<Bluelight>Nope!
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not particularly familiar with french religious phrases
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>they didn't have that chapter in school
15:52<Zuu>Ok, might work to try using your local IP as connect IP with a client on your local machine.
15:53<Bluelight>Yeah on LAN it workes.. but not listed in server list..
15:53<Zuu>Eg. if your local IP is 10.9.9.2 then in OpenTTD try to connect using that IP (not 127.0.0.1 or localhost)
15:53<Zuu>And you have forwarded both TCP and UDP?
15:54<Bluelight>Yeah, but I will try to get another router..
15:54<Bluelight>This one is really stupid..
15:54<Zuu>In your router do you have both "virtual servers" and "port forwarding" ?
15:54<Bluelight>Hold on..
15:54<@Belugas>query... SELECT train_a FROM Station_A WHERE Loading IS NOT NULL
15:55<Zuu>If you do, then try the other one then what you have used. In my DLink I need to use "virtual servers" in order for it to work.
15:55<Bluelight>NAT SUA Only
15:55<Zuu>Might be becase I've done a "user error" or just that DLink interface sucks :-p
15:55<Zuu>SUA = "
15:55<Zuu>SUA =? *
15:56<Forked>ask zyxel..
15:56<@Belugas>DLink? got one for at least 5 years
15:56<Bluelight>Yeah, lol
15:56<@Belugas>lovely machine
15:56<aber>I have a DLink. It's called Port Mapping
15:56<Bluelight>Well I had the super gaming router from D-link.. It didnt work at all...
15:57<Zuu>Mine is quite nice, bought a $120 or so DLink - works fine except for the inteface being a bit messy.
15:57<Forked>SUA ? Single User AccounTt
15:57<Forked>= .. and remove the "T"
15:57<Bluelight>It worked for some hours and then the IP adress didnt work anymore.. And I had to reset it,.
15:57<Forked>Zuu: http://www.zyxeltech.de/snotezw5_362/app/multi_nat.htm#SUA%20Versus%20NAT
15:57<Bluelight>And after a while it was not possible to get a LAN connection up and running at all..
15:59<TrueBrain>Bluelight: I think we can safely say your router is fucked up :)
16:03-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
16:05<@Belugas>fuck.. so old, i can't even remember its model...
16:06<@Belugas>Haa!!~
16:06<@Belugas>http://support.dlink.com/emulators/di514_revc/h_wizard.html
16:06<@Belugas>tadam!
16:06<@Belugas>nice pages :D
16:07<@Belugas>http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=226
16:07<@Belugas>looks awfull tough
16:07<@Belugas>very not good desgin
16:07<@Belugas>but hey... it sits under a desk its whole life!
16:13<Zuu>I have the blank white design though, yea it is probably a bit geeky to have a fancy router hehe
16:14<Zuu>Though, mine is still farily consumer oriented. There is of course people that use much more hardcore stuff in their homes.
16:14<welshdragon>http://www.maniacworld.com/maze_game.htm
16:14-!-Ryand-Smith [45a0e00a@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
16:14<Ryand-Smith>hello all!
16:15<andythenorth>hi
16:15<Ryand-Smith>tell me, why is openttd so addictive
16:16<Ryand-Smith>also, how should I start to make a trainset for this, I know some C
16:16<welshdragon>Ryand-Smith: check the grapchis development forums
16:16<welshdragon>they are screaming out for coders
16:16<Ryand-Smith>will do
16:16<planetmaker>Ryand-Smith: and C/C++ won't help you a single bit :-P
16:16<Ryand-Smith>I just want to make a Northeast Coridor grf set
16:17<Ryand-Smith>planetmaker: wat
16:17<Ryand-Smith>what is this devilry made of, then
16:17<planetmaker>nfo
16:17<welshdragon>Ryand-Smith: graphics are made of NFO
16:17-!-Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
16:17<planetmaker>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs <-- wiki concerning newgrf coding
16:17<welshdragon>look on the openttdcoop devzone for templates
16:17<planetmaker>looks and feels like assembler
16:18<Ryand-Smith>I somehow had a feeling
16:18<andythenorth>the classier type of graphics are made from c preprocessor turned into nfo
16:18<Ryand-Smith>that was true, anyway
16:18<planetmaker>hehe @ andythenorth ;-)
16:18<andythenorth>one day, with a following wind, we might even get to turn python into nfo
16:18<planetmaker>andythenorth: but that doesn't change that you have to know the NFO.
16:18<andythenorth>nope, but it does make coding better
16:19<Ryand-Smith>Anyway though NFO sounds simple enough
16:19<planetmaker>hehe Good for you
16:19<Ryand-Smith>I just want to run the custom Budd/Kawasaki EMUs that run on long island
16:20<Ryand-Smith>planetmaker I am used to dealing with code that isn't even in english
16:20<Ryand-Smith>the work of a translator is never fun
16:20<planetmaker>non-English is not uncommon here. Guess how many native speakers are around.
16:20<Ryand-Smith>us?
16:21<andythenorth>approximately one....plus some of the welsh?
16:21<andythenorth>:P
16:21<planetmaker>but all people just talk just English in this channel - for good reason
16:22<Fast2>Hello
16:22<Fast2>We could try Esperanto :)
16:23<planetmaker>lingua latinum, lingua franca antiqua est. Parlete latinam!
16:23<andythenorth>or bytecode
16:23<Bluelight>I'm back.. SOrry got a phonecall..
16:23<planetmaker>whitespace
16:23<Bluelight>My router is stupid yes, but ports are open..
16:23<andythenorth>.
16:23<Bluelight>Should work..
16:23<andythenorth>
16:24<andythenorth>
16:24<andythenorth>
16:24<andythenorth>nah, whitespace is....lacking something
16:24<planetmaker>lol :-)
16:24<@Rubidium>andythenorth: /ignore works quite well as whitespace too
16:24<Bluelight>I can't chat whitespaces with ChatZilla.. :p Stupid software..
16:24-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd
16:24<Fast2>Bluelight: Alt+255
16:25<andythenorth>ummm planetmaker aren't we coding something?
16:25<Bluelight>Doesnt work..
16:25-!-Ryand-Smith [45a0e00a@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
16:25<Fast2>Bluelight: You're right... But it worked some time before...
16:25<Bluelight>Ok
16:26<planetmaker>andythenorth: hm... maybe :-)
16:26<andythenorth>might as well try and get FIRS released sometime
16:26<planetmaker>But I try to wrap my mind around text with numbers atm ;-)
16:32<aber>math exam on thursday?
16:32<planetmaker>no. Text stack in NFO ;-)
16:32<andythenorth>planetmaker: I can probably help if you get stuck. I hate the text stack though...does not compute :|
16:32<planetmaker>The exams are written. I still have to correct them, though... 17 waiting on my desk :S
16:33<Zuu>pm: are you doing your Phd?
16:33<planetmaker>andythenorth: thanks :-)
16:33<planetmaker>Zuu: yes
16:33<Zuu>Nice, didn't knew that.
16:34<planetmaker>I should be done long time ago ;-)
16:34<Zuu>What is the subject area?
16:35<planetmaker>experiments on planet formation (astrophysics)
16:35<planetmaker>yes... I know. My nickname :-P
16:35<Zuu>hehe ok :-p
16:36*Rubidium ponders how one would do full scale tests
16:36<planetmaker>you could also call it aerosol physics.
16:36<Zuu>Hmm, what if everyone would have a nick like that. :-)
16:36<planetmaker>Rubidium: wait and see ;-)
16:36<Prof_Frink>Rubidium: Lab on Magrathea of course.
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: easy, you just blow up a star and watch the cloud while creating a new system
16:37-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Untenmaa, Utm A½ - Aja 35 Odota seis]
16:37<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, problem is that you wouldn't like to do such tests in 'urban' areas
16:38<planetmaker>lol ;-)
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that's the case for nuclear explosions, as well :p
16:38<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: well, 'our own urban areas' then :)
16:39<planetmaker>tsk... but yeah... it's a bitch ;-)
16:39-!-mr_vain [54102686@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
16:40<planetmaker>So, I guess we can only test single pieces of the bomb: the detonator, the quality of the plutonium, the antenna, the guidance system, the security lock, ...
16:41<planetmaker>(did that trigger now some wire taps?)
16:41-!-mr_vain [54102686@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
16:41<@Rubidium>planetmaker: nah...
16:41*Rubidium points at CIA-1
16:41<planetmaker>haha :-)
16:41<Prof_Frink>It'd be nice if they *tried* to hide.
16:41<Zuu>While we are discussing this very important topic, I wonder if I have a Window in OpenTTD and (in code) want to make it so that a button state or a text edit string is remembered through many life times of this window? Is there a standard procedure for that in OpenTTD? Shall I use a static class variable or shall I make a global variable for that?
16:43<Muxy>got that error who stop a server : Error: Disconnecting road vehicle.
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: in most cases it's probably using global variables, but that's because most of the codebase is C, not C++. so the class variable thing sounds more sensible
16:44<Muxy>should i investigate to transmit something ? (0.7.5 server with nobody playing. Strange)
16:44<SmatZ>Muxy: newgrf problems or ottd bug
16:45<Muxy>oups, sory, someone was playing
16:45<Zuu>Eddi: Okay
16:46<Muxy>only generic trams activated
16:46-!-woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Quit: ですは滑稽じゃないです。私は本気です。]
16:47<Zuu>Would be nice if I can get around to add remembering of state in my two GUI patches so they get one more step ahead.
16:48*TrueBrain gives Zuu time
16:49-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:49*Zuu takes the time and put it in a box
16:50<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19023 /trunk/src/table/airport_defaults.h: -Fix (r18807): city airport introduction date had become 5 years later
16:50<Muxy>this happened on CMD_MOVE_RAIL_VEHICLE after a CMD_BUILD_RAIL VEHICLE on same tile.
16:50-!-Diablo-D3 [~diablo@pool-64-222-232-11.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
16:50<Zuu>r19023 ^^ now thats interesting :-)
16:51<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19024 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3577]: mass stopping/starting/autoreplacing gave empty errors when there were no vehicles
17:03<@Belugas>a router is never stupid. it's a machine. it only does what it has been ordered to do
17:03<@Belugas>ho... what a lag...
17:03<@Belugas>time flies so fast...
17:04<@Rubidium>Belugas: but... it *is* stupid because it *only* does whatever it was ordered to do; it doesn't think for itself
17:04<@Belugas>buwhahha!!!!
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17:05-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
17:05<@Belugas>i guess that when machines would not be stupid anymore, they'll say stupid humans :)
17:05<@Belugas>only doing what they've been told to do :D
17:05-!-sunkan [~Tarquin@c-4f66198d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd
17:06-!-[com]buster is now known as Combuster
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17:08<@Belugas>funny thing, tough.. an intelligent router means that an intelligent human programmed it
17:08-!-kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd
17:09<Zuu>As I can see there is no code that is ran specificly when the game switch between being paused/unpaused. _pause_mode is both assigned to and manipulated using bit operations which would make it hard to introduce a function that one has to call in order to chnage_pause_mode that could then contain code that reacts on game being paused/unpaused. The best alternative I can see is to in a Window that wants to do something when the
17:09<Zuu> game unpauses is to implement OnTick() and each tick check if the pause mode is "unpaused" then make sure the window is in the state that it should be when the game is unpaused.
17:10<Zuu>I want to disable a button in the AI Debug window when the game become unpaused and repaint the log.
17:11<Zuu>My code shouldn't be very expansive, but it would run very many times unneeded.
17:11-!-KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-243-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
17:12<Eddi|zuHause><Belugas> funny thing, tough.. an intelligent router means that an intelligent human programmed it <-- who is the bigger fool. the fool, or the fool that thinks he is intelligent? :p
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>or the fool that works late on a friday evening :p
17:12<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: obviously the fool
17:13<@Belugas>asking is answering ;)
17:13<@Belugas>well... not the late night at the office :P
17:13<@Belugas>i'm almost out, anyway
17:13<@Rubidium>but... it's 23:13 and YOU Belugas... are still at the office
17:14<@Belugas>17:13.. not that late :)
17:15<aber>:)
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17:16<WhiteDog>i have a noob question: i make a train go from a to c, via b, but when the train gets to c it goes back to a. how do i make it "reverse" the orders when it reaches the last one? (passenger train)
17:16<@Belugas>in fact... it's indeed time to run home!!!
17:16<WhiteDog>so it goes a b c b a b c ...
17:16<@Belugas>Good weekend all!
17:17<@Rubidium>see you on Monday Belugas :)
17:17<@Belugas>maybe before...
17:17-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
17:18<@Belugas>WhiteDog, why don't you reverse the order yourself? you just need to add an order to b after c...
17:18*Belugas is gone
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17:19<WhiteDog>yes but what if i add 5 via's ?
17:19<WhiteDog>like a real passenger train :)
17:20<WhiteDog>that's a lot of orders :)
17:20-!-sunkan [~Tarquin@c-4f66198d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd
17:20<WhiteDog>a b c d e d c b a b ...
17:20<WhiteDog>is there a better way besides adding them manually?
17:22<aber>isnt that the way the trains behave?
17:22<aber>the train goes to every station on his route?
17:22<@Rubidium>WhiteDog: is there only one way to go from a to e? And are there other stations on the route than b c and d?
17:22<WhiteDog>yes but when it reaches the last one, it drives back to the first
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17:23<@Rubidium>if the answer is yes to the first and no to the second, just make an order for 'go to a', 'go to e'
17:23<planetmaker>don't use non-stop orders
17:23<WhiteDog>i only got 3 stations atm
17:23<WhiteDog>no other inbetween
17:26<WhiteDog>i changed all to "go to"
17:26<WhiteDog>still doesn't stop twice at the middle station tough
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>WhiteDog: you have to do the backwards route explicit
17:27<WhiteDog>ok
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>a b c d c b [repeat]
17:27<WhiteDog>i was just wondering if there was a "better" way :)
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>no, there's not
17:27<WhiteDog>maybe a good feature to add :)
17:27<WhiteDog>for passenger trains
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17:28<Eddi|zuHause>maybe, but how to do in a way that allows switching between both ways, and make it understandable for people?
17:28-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>i might want to have a circular route where one vehicle goes a b c d a, and the other goes a d c b a
17:29<WhiteDog>well if you click "end of orders", maybe an option to change that to "Reverse orders"
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>WhiteDog: yes, but that's not all of it, you also need the ability to switch direction while in the middle of the route
17:29-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:30<WhiteDog>:)
17:30-!-lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd
17:30<WhiteDog>you guys proably know best
17:30<WhiteDog>just picked this up, last time i played ttd must been 10 years ago or something
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not against this feature, but if you do it as simple as you said, it's useless for anything than the most simple orders
17:31<WhiteDog>i can't even get my signals straight for a waiting track :p
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>you need a way to deal with conditional orders
17:31-!-Bluelight [~Ivan@216.80-203-77.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd
17:32<WhiteDog>well thx already
17:32<WhiteDog>i'll be back tough :)
17:32<WhiteDog>gonna try the waiting track again
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17:33-!-DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd
17:34<DJNekkid>hi guys... if anyone is interested, me and two mates are mixing live atm ... even video :) http://www.livestream.com/clublifeno ... mailly house music
17:44*Zuu sticks to Spotify Premium aired over FM
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17:51<andythenorth>meh, I am going to ask some dumb questions about the map array. I am reading openttd src, but I have...understanding fail
17:53<andythenorth>how would I figure out how much space in the map array any given tile type uses (and by implication, how much is unused)
17:53<andythenorth>?
17:53<@Rubidium>see docs/landscape_grid.html
17:54<andythenorth>thanks
17:55<andythenorth>hmmm....if I've understood that right, industry tiles have free all the bits needed for road, rail and canal tiles?
17:56<andythenorth>no I've understood wrong :(
17:56<SmatZ>lolno
17:56<SmatZ>industry has only 3 free bits
17:57<SmatZ>according to that table
17:57<andythenorth>ho hum
17:57<andythenorth>another idea bites the dust :D
18:00*andythenorth thought I had a solution for enforcing separation of industry from surrounding 'stuff' (objects, industries, buildings) with an eye candy bonus
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's a really big problem, unless you come up with an idea for "stacked tiles" or something
18:01-!-sunkan [~Tarquin@c-4f66198d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>efficient "sparse arrays" or something
18:02-!-sunkan [~Tarquin@c-4f66198d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>both space and access time efficient
18:02<andythenorth>sounds like a pony?
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>a huge pony :p
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's like what they call a "rewrite of the map array"
18:03<andythenorth>so help my dumb brain...what happens to a farmland tile when it is built on? It becomes a rail / road / canal tile?
18:03<@Rubidium>yes
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>it gets cleared first
18:04-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
18:04<andythenorth>would an industry freak out if some of its tiles were cleared?
18:04<andythenorth>(if such were possible)
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>probably...
18:05<andythenorth>what if they had some kind of special flag on them....such as 'freakout = false' ?
18:06<@Rubidium>clearing an industry's tile == deleting the whole industry
18:07<andythenorth>probably the best way to explain this is: it would be useful if the equivalent of farm tiles could be included explicitly in an industry layout.
18:07<andythenorth>So that a specific pattern of such could be provided around an industry
18:08<andythenorth>They would act like normal industry tiles when placing an industry - i.e. can't build industry if tile n is blocked
18:08<andythenorth>they would have an action 2 / 3 chain for graphics
18:08<andythenorth>but cargo acceptance would be 0
18:09<andythenorth>and they could be over-built with roads/rails/canals.
18:09<andythenorth>however...it's probably another pony
18:09<@Rubidium>sounds quite complex
18:10<andythenorth>nfo side it would be one addition to the 'special flags' property, but yes, probably complex :)
18:11<@Rubidium>but why enforce it to be empty and then allow it to be overbuild
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18:13<andythenorth>(i) enforces separation between industries, permitting routes to be built. (my fs bug report seems to be misunderstood?). Industry sets are quite capable of blocking large sections of the map with contiguous industries, enforcing tunnels on the user.
18:13<andythenorth>(ii) eye candy - farm-style fields, but...under my control :)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>why would both features need to be combined?
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>afaik you can already check if surrounding tiles are free by callback
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>and the farm tiles need a few new industry related callbacks about appearance and creation
18:17<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it's possible to check, but baroque to implement. Unless I'm missing something
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>plus a solution for "dangling references" when the industry closes
18:18<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: they wouldn't be dangling references. These are industry tiles. I knew about that problem, which is why I think this is better
18:19-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@79.88.148.121] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
18:19<Bluelight>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47088
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>so you want industry tiles to be deletable by the player
18:19-!-Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:20<andythenorth>(if they have a special flag), yes that would be implied by having them over-buildable?
18:20<andythenorth>I have no problem with that happening
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes, overbuilding is just clearing and building something else
18:22-!-roboboy [6e143598@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>with a few flags about clearing automatically (e.g. trees when building a rail) or requiring manual (e.g. houses while building a rail)
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18:28<andythenorth>I could enforce a crude distance check on industries quite simply when constructing a new one: repeatedly check industry var 64 for every other type of industry (probably around 60 types).
18:28-!-Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd
18:28<andythenorth>is var 64 expensive?
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>O(number of industries) probably
18:30<andythenorth>:|
18:31-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: oyasumi nasai~]
18:39*andythenorth ponders coding a cb2F check for every tile at the edge of every industry layout :|
18:41<andythenorth>average maybe 12 edge tiles per industry, perhaps 3 or 4 layout variations, ~60 industries....2800 checks to code
18:41*andythenorth is sad
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18:43<WhiteDog>i got some trouble setting up a waiting bay on a 1-track line with 2 trains on it
18:43<WhiteDog>the trains both stop at the bay and stand there :)
18:44<Bluelight>What is a waiting bay?
18:44<WhiteDog>a small track next to another
18:45<WhiteDog>so trans can pass eachother on a single track
18:45<mib_3cl6t6>andythenorth: 4 tiles is enough per industy, one on each corner will do juuuuuuuuust fine. ;)
18:46<andythenorth>true
18:47<andythenorth>this is the most epic industry generation fail I've seen so far:
18:47<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/location_suck_4.png
18:47<andythenorth>try building routes through that. tunnel time
18:47<mib_3cl6t6>have fun, one at a time...
18:48<WhiteDog>here is a screenshot: http://how2.be/ttd/Brondham%20Transport,%205%20Jun%201959.png
18:49-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!]
18:49<WhiteDog>i don't understand how to set up the signals :(
18:51<Bluelight>Explain more plece..
18:51<Bluelight>please?
18:51<WhiteDog>they just both wait there
18:51<Bluelight>Ohh..
18:52<WhiteDog>but the track in front is clear
18:52<Bluelight>You need a signal at the start too..
18:52<WhiteDog>well i did ttry that
18:52<Bluelight>Not just the end.. the trains can go on the same track..
18:52<WhiteDog>and that kind of worked
18:53<WhiteDog>but the train then tries to use the same track as the other one
18:53<WhiteDog>then returns to the station
18:53<WhiteDog>then takes the correct path
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18:53<Terkhen>good night
18:53-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
18:54<WhiteDog>this is with 2 signals: http://how2.be/ttd/Brondham%20Transport,%2019%20Okt%201959.png
18:55<WhiteDog>why it tries the bottom track is beyond me :)
18:56-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BA99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:56<WhiteDog>i read somewhere on the wiki, if one-way signals are there, it will follow the path it's going in
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19:01<Bluelight>http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/dblvyyqs.png
19:01<@Rubidium>WhiteDog: the train is lost, i.e. pathfinding isn't done and it just messes up your network
19:02<WhiteDog>ic
19:02<WhiteDog>how do i set up signals correctly for this situation?
19:02<Bluelight>Let me make a screen..
19:03<WhiteDog>:)
19:03<Bluelight>Takes some time..
19:03<WhiteDog>np
19:04<WhiteDog>oh crap :)
19:04<WhiteDog>they just collided
19:04<WhiteDog>lol
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19:10<Bluelight>As simple as this..
19:10<Bluelight>http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/1960.png
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19:10<WhiteDog>are those simple 1-way signals?
19:11<WhiteDog>cause i did try that, see my second screen: http://how2.be/ttd/Brondham%20Transport,%2019%20Okt%201959.png
19:12<Bluelight>Looks like you made the signal too late or something..
19:12<Bluelight>They usually don't go to a oneway track like that..
19:12<WhiteDog>no if i fast forward it does that again
19:13<Bluelight>Ohh?
19:13<WhiteDog>and again
19:13<WhiteDog>:)
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19:14<aber>take the signal to the junction?
19:14<Bluelight>Send the train to the depot and send it out again..
19:14<Bluelight>It should work..
19:14<WhiteDog>yeah i think i built the signal 1 tile off
19:14<WhiteDog>could that be it?
19:15<Bluelight>http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals
19:16<WhiteDog>i did read that
19:16<Bluelight>Ok.. Hmm..
19:16<WhiteDog>let me try the depot
19:17<roboboy>bye
19:17<Bluelight>Take care!
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19:20*andythenorth patches a nasty hack to see if industry tile 0xFF can be used on land to enforce space between industries....
19:20<andythenorth>answer: yes
19:20<WhiteDog>ok i resolved it
19:20<WhiteDog>i changed the track order
19:21<Bluelight>Can you show me screen?
19:21<WhiteDog>the bottom track now goes to left, upper to the right
19:21*andythenorth wonders how this could be done properly
19:21<WhiteDog>yeah sec
19:22<Bluelight>Trains normally don't go behind a oneway track like the exaple you had..
19:22<Bluelight>Sunno why that happend..
19:23<WhiteDog>http://how2.be/ttd/Brondham%20Transport,%2017%20Mei%201967.png
19:23<WhiteDog>the lights are closer now to the junction
19:23<WhiteDog>i think
19:23<Bluelight>Yeah but thats not the problem.. It should work the other way too..
19:24<WhiteDog>you can recreate it perhaps?
19:24<WhiteDog>are you a dev by any chance? :)
19:24<Bluelight>It's not closer btw
19:24<Bluelight>Nope.. Can't even get my server working..
19:24<WhiteDog>heh
19:24<__ln__>http://englishrussia.com/?p=1316
19:25<WhiteDog>well it's still beta offcourse
19:25<Bluelight>But I know a little about signals. THough I always build two ways tracks..
19:25<__ln__>*of course
19:25<WhiteDog>sorry
19:25<Bluelight>He he,,. jet train..
19:25<WhiteDog>it's 1:30 am :)
19:26<WhiteDog>i deserve the t-shirt: i played OpenTTD for 3 hours... and all i made was this lousy junction <screenshot>
19:27<Bluelight>I have to go.. Other games waiting for me..
19:27<WhiteDog>:)
19:27<WhiteDog>np and thx for the help
19:27<Bluelight>Or correction, I'll be in this chat but I'n away!
19:27<WhiteDog>same here :)
19:28<WhiteDog><< zzz
19:28<Bluelight>Glad to be of service.. Even with my limited skills..
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19:41<andythenorth>good night
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21:06<Bluelight>Is everybody sleeping?
21:06<ccfreak2k>I'm debugging SDL on the gamecube.
21:06<ccfreak2k>Or trying. My test program seems to ignore the breakpoint.
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21:11<ccfreak2k>Oh, I didn't initialize the debug subsystem.
21:12<Bluelight>Ohh.. I have no idea on that stuff..
21:12<Bluelight>Never used a Gamecube
21:13-!-roboboy [6e1420c0@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
21:13<Bluelight>Anyone playing OpenTTD here?
21:13<Bluelight>Welcome back roboboy..
21:13<ccfreak2k>Bluelight, in this case, it's exactly like debugging any other embedded system.
21:13<ccfreak2k>Except in this case it happens to be a game console.
21:14<Bluelight>Well I don't know much about debugging either? What is it actually.. Correction of code errors?
21:14<ccfreak2k>Finding bugs and fixing them.
21:15<Bluelight>Man, that require some coding expertise ?
21:15<ccfreak2k>Many systems include gdb, which is a program that helps in finding bugs. For example, if your program crashes, it can tell you where it crashed and what the values of each variable was.
21:15<Bluelight>Cool
21:15<Bluelight>Are you making your own game or something?
21:16<ccfreak2k>I'm working on the port of SDL to the GameCube.
21:16<Bluelight>I want to make a game.. :p
21:16<ccfreak2k>If it works, I'd be able to get OpenTTD to run on it.
21:16<ccfreak2k>It doesn't necessarily have to be a game. For example, since I have the "Broadband Adapter", I can run a webserver on it.
21:16<Bluelight>Simple DirectMedia Layer
21:17<Bluelight>Cool
21:18<ccfreak2k>Cool indeed.
21:18<Bluelight>Can anyone tell me why I periodically lose connection to internet games (OpenTTD)
21:19<Bluelight>The internet is working, but I'm getting disconnected all the time..
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21:20<roboboy>cyou
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21:29<Bluelight>Most people here are a sleep I guess.. Though they are not flagged as away..
21:33<@peter1138>heh
21:33<@peter1138>didn't you already decide your router sucks?
21:33<@peter1138>that might be a reason
21:33<@peter1138>or perhaps it's just your isp that sucks
21:33<Bluelight>Yeah, maybe..
21:33<@peter1138>that would do it too
21:33<Bluelight>ISP should be good..
21:33<Bluelight>Low latency and packetloss..
21:35<ccfreak2k>http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8380/gcdebugger.png
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22:10<Bluelight>ccfreak2k: You use an old compiler? I use Code::Blocks, though I dunno how to really use it.. :p
22:10<ccfreak2k>Bluelight, nope, the compiler is GCC 4.4.1.
22:10<ccfreak2k>I don't think it's the most recent, but it's not old by a long shot.
22:10<Bluelight>And old C code dont work.. :p gets errors..
22:10<ccfreak2k>I have Code::Blocks, but mingw does the heavy lifting.
22:11<Bluelight>mingw?
22:11<Bluelight>I have a lot to learn from you..
22:11<Bluelight>:p
22:13<ccfreak2k>Code::Blocks is just an IDE. It doesn't have a toolchain AFAIK.
22:13<ccfreak2k>If you want to use gcc in Windows, you'll almost certainly use mingw, which is what I'm using.
22:14<Bluelight>Hmm... I don't even know what AFAIK or mingw or gcc is... Do you want to explain?
22:15<Eoin>as far as i knowe
22:15<Bluelight>I can make 3d models in 3d studio max 9.. :p
22:15<Bluelight>Do you want a picture of a gray box?
22:15<ccfreak2k>GCC is known as the Gnu C compiler or, more appropriately these days, Gnu Compiler Collection.
22:15<ccfreak2k>It's the toolchain that turns source code into binaries that a computer can execute.
22:16<ccfreak2k>mingw is MINimalist Gnu for Windows, which is GCC ported to win32.
22:16<Bluelight>Isnt Code::Blocks a GCC too then?
22:16<ccfreak2k>No.
22:16<ccfreak2k>Code::Blocks is basically a fancy text editor.
22:16<ccfreak2k>However, it has support for running make(1) and kin.
22:18<Bluelight>But Code::Blocks can make a .exe-file that you can run?
22:18<Bluelight>Damn I'm stupid.. :p
22:18<Bluelight>How can I learn more about this?
22:18<ccfreak2k>But there is no "Code::Blocks compiler".
22:18<ccfreak2k>It uses another compiler to actually make those binaries.
22:18<ccfreak2k>Such as GCC.
22:19<Bluelight>Ohh..
22:19<Bluelight>So if I want to make a Irrlicht project I whould want to use something else then Code::Blocks?
22:20<Bluelight>Irrlicht is a 3d engine..
22:20<ccfreak2k>I know it is.
22:20<ccfreak2k>It depends on what you need your IDE to do.
22:21<ccfreak2k>For example, I like to have an IDE that lets me select something, like a variable, and have it tell me where said variable is declared.
22:21<ccfreak2k>Microsoft's VisualStudio has IntelliSense do this, which is why everyone likes it.
22:22<Bluelight>But visual studio uses directx or something.. Not cross platform?
22:22<ccfreak2k>You can coerce VisualStudio to use other toolchains I think, but I'm not sure.
22:22<Bluelight>My dream is to make my own game that will work on all computers..
22:22<ccfreak2k>However, it's tightly integrated with its own compiler, which IIRC only makes win32/win64 code.
22:22<Bluelight>And I don't know how to code.. :p
22:24<Bluelight>I wish I had a software package to make cross platform games with..
22:25<Bluelight>Like in the game Oblivion, you can change whateveryou like in the game and make your own..
22:25<Bluelight>I made weapons for Morrowind at one poing.. Lets see if I have some pictures..
22:26<ccfreak2k>Cross-platform games are difficult to make without introducing compiler conditionals in your code.
22:26<ccfreak2k>For example, the GameCube lacks a keyboard and mouse, so any games that rely on those wouldn't work.
22:27<Bluelight>Yeah, but I want it to use keyboard and mouse..
22:27<ccfreak2k>Windows and many UNIX-like systems are also quite different. Libraries like SDL help abstract that away, though.
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22:28<Bluelight>I want my game to work on Windows, Mac, and Linux
22:29<SirSquidness> n /win 35
22:29<SirSquidness>ignor eme
22:38<Bluelight>You are writing cryptic.. :)
22:38<Bluelight>Anyways here are som pictures of new weapons I made for the game Morrowind..
22:38<Bluelight>http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/Morrowind/Inferno_axe.jpg
22:38<Bluelight>http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/Morrowind/Inferno_staff.jpg
22:39<SirSquidness>nice work on that weapon
22:39<Bluelight>http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/Morrowind/Inferno-both.jpg
22:39<Bluelight>Thanks.. :)
22:39<SirSquidness>the staff looks like it belongs in some awesome game of double-base-ball or something :P
22:40<Bluelight>He he, it's actually based on the magic staff from Diablo II
22:41<SirSquidness>I still play that every now and then.
22:41<Bluelight>And the pole axe actually exist.. Dunno why it has that meat clubb though..
22:41<SirSquidness>For awesome looks?
22:41<Bluelight>Wanna try the weapons?
22:42<Bluelight>They come on the starting point on a industrial wagon that I made myself..
22:42<SirSquidness>I don't have morrowind anymore - otherwise I would
22:42<Bluelight>Ok
22:42<SirSquidness>I purchased it on steam a few days ago for pretty cheap though
22:42<SirSquidness>just need to download it
22:42<Bluelight>Ok
22:43<Bluelight>I'm not even sure if I can find it.. Somewhere on those hard drives..
22:44<ccfreak2k>while(1) if (PAD_ButtonsHeld(0) & PAD_BUTTON_A) return;
22:44<ccfreak2k>I am awesome at wait loops.
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22:47<+glx>ccfreak2k: cpu intensive ;)
22:48<ccfreak2k>I don't want to have to make a SDL event struct just so I can read a button.,
22:50<ccfreak2k>Besides, there's no other threads on the entire system running.
23:00<Bluelight>Here I tried to make a rose with the white transparent, but in-game it became white.. :p - http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/Morrowind/Rose2.jpg
23:05<Bluelight>I found the mod after much searching. :) - http://infernusweb.net/hosting/BlueLight/Morrowind/Inferno-test.rar
23:05<SirSquidness>haha, I like that rose - makes it look like a decoration I'd make IRL
23:05<SirSquidness>a put with a rose printed on a piece of paper instead of a real one
23:05<Bluelight>He he..
23:05<Bluelight>I still don't know how they do transparency..
23:06<Bluelight>It's possible in 3d max, but that don't work in-game
23:06<SirSquidness>indeed
23:27<ccfreak2k>The game probably has some manner of texture format method of having alpha.
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 06 00:00:18 2010