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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-14

---Logopened Sun Feb 14 00:00:20 2010
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01:42<SpComb^>BaNaNaS Name Change <-- I thought that would be asking about changing the name of Bananas...
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04:53<planetmaker>Rubidium: I assume that the votes are such that 0=least preferred and 10=most preferred title game, right?
04:54<Phazorx>pm, any clue on coopers desync issues?
04:54<planetmaker>I didn't do any desync debugging on it
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05:01<planetmaker>I could try, though ;-)
05:01<planetmaker>let's see whether I can reproduce it locally
05:01-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd4e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
05:01<planetmaker>moin frosch123
05:02<planetmaker>did you actually get a desync diff yesterday already?
05:02<frosch123>yes
05:02<frosch123>i wrote it all in fs
05:02<planetmaker>oh, I missed that then
05:03<planetmaker>uh. That sounds ugly
05:04<frosch123>the desync starts with a train choosing a a n vs. ne track right before the dropoff station which then causes the train to pick a platform 2 tiles to the nw, which then makes the train stop later, which then causes the electric spark to happen later, which causes the random seeds to differ :p
05:04<planetmaker>he. random is defined re-defined often when compiling --enable-desync-debug
05:04<Gargami>Wow
05:04<Gargami>My bandwith is proportional to the height of my monitor.
05:05<frosch123>but actually the yapf debug stuff is that broken, that the next run should be with valgrind
05:06<planetmaker>In file included from ottd/trunk/src/ai/ai_config.cpp:15:
05:06<planetmaker>ottd/trunk/src/ai/../core/random_func.hpp:88:1: warning: "Random" redefined
05:06<planetmaker>ottd/trunk/src/ai/../core/random_func.hpp:17:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
05:06<planetmaker>and many other files of course, too, where it is used
05:06<frosch123>sounds like osx
05:06<planetmaker>well, yes, that's where I do compile...
05:06<frosch123>i cannot remember getting those
05:08<planetmaker>true. The :17 is __APPLE__ defined only
05:09<Alberth>Gargami: turn your monitor 90 degrees :p
05:11<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: thanks
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: the episodes 4x10 and 4x11 are probably "interesting"
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>towards the end
05:20<Gargami>Noo!
05:20<Gargami>Wait.
05:20<Gargami>Noo. D;
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05:21<planetmaker>hm... is there a clean way to re-define a function?
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>make an #ifndef __APPLE__ around the other one
05:29<planetmaker>hm... the first definition is #define Random OTTD_Random - and OTTD_Random never appears anywhere.
05:30<planetmaker>or do I grep wrongly or what does that line possibly do?
05:30<planetmaker>I mean... when does that define play a role?
05:31<@peter1138>it replaces all future mentions of Random with OTTD_Random
05:31<@peter1138>thus, it doesn't then clash with apple's Random
05:32<@peter1138>you probably need #define OTTD_Random() on line 88 for apple
05:33<planetmaker>ah. I see.
05:34<planetmaker>I'll give it a shot, thanks
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05:41<@peter1138>or perhaps comment out the first one
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05:45<planetmaker>your first proposal compiles without warnings
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05:45<planetmaker>but the latter, too... Hm.
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05:56<planetmaker>any good idea how to quickly test what is preferred? E.g. what could go wrong, what errors I should look for?
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06:01<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: if it clashes with a builtin random, then it may desync quickly
06:01<fjb>Moin
06:06<frosch123>quak fjb
06:06<fjb>Quak frosch123
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>"quakfrosch"... i haven't heard that phrase since i was 5 years old...
06:07<frosch123>i hear it more often :p
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06:10<@peter1138>planetmaker, which one works though ;)
06:10<planetmaker>peter1138: in both cases the game starts just fine...
06:11<planetmaker>but... just starting the game and loading a savegame doesn't look like a thorough test to me
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06:15<@peter1138>presumably, if you enabled random debug, you should be testing the functionality of that
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06:23<planetmaker>If I remove the #ifdef __APPLE__ it needs to work in all cases. Funnily I am now connected to our anyway desyncing server. Without desync :-P
06:23<planetmaker>and if a #ifdev __APPLE__ can be removed... that'd be nice
06:23<planetmaker>s/v/f/
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>remofed? :p
06:24<planetmaker>:-P
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06:28<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: 'g' option is missing :)
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>(i knew that was coming...)
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06:31<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: correcto, it was 4x10 and 4x11
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06:45<planetmaker>frosch123: would it help to get more data on the desync issue?
06:46<planetmaker>I could then try to have our server run in a version with --enable-desync-debug
06:46<frosch123>planetmaker: you could try to reproduce it with yapf cache disabled :)
06:46<planetmaker>is it a console setting?
06:46<planetmaker>or does that need re-compile?
06:46<frosch123>or you could fix the Dump stuff of yapf debugging which causes lots of invalid read, writes and segfaults
06:46<planetmaker>he...
06:49<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/disableyapfcache.diff <- currently i expect you cannot reproduce it with patched client and server
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06:51<frosch123>hmm, so valgrind is fine with everything up to "DumpState(pf1, pf2);"
06:51<planetmaker>both patched should not be reproducable you say, but same thing, if only one is patched? We could give it a try
06:53<frosch123>disabling the caching only on the client should desync just as well
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07:01<planetmaker>Let's see. I can patch the server, too :-)
07:01<planetmaker>Either I desync or not
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07:07<@Rubidium>planetmaker: I reckon that 'old' SDKs used Random; that define has been there since r1 and I reckon it wouldn't be added if it wasn't needed
07:08<planetmaker>Rubidium: I reckon that, too...
07:08<planetmaker>frosch123: I don't seem to get a desync from the server while all others do ;-)
07:08<planetmaker>patches on server and on my binary
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07:09<frosch123>nice, now fix it properly :)
07:09<planetmaker>well... as usual some others finally manage to join, too
07:09<planetmaker>he :-P
07:11<frosch123> int CDECL AddFormat(const char *format, ...) WARN_FORMAT(1, 2); <- wtf is wrong about that?
07:11<frosch123>src/misc/str.hpp:103: error: format string argument not a string type
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>desync in yapf cache? maybe railtype related?
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07:15<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: there are no rail types active in this game
07:16<planetmaker>and the whole map uses only one (at least where trains drive)
07:17<frosch123>since when do you use waypoints like in that savegame? i.e. without the actualy station order
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit 10491
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by KUDr :: r10491 trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp (2007-07-09 18:57:12 UTC)
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#988, YAPF]: When rail segment was cached using electric engine and it ended with non-electric rail it was incorrectly cached with the end reason ESRB_DEAD_END instead of ESRB_RAIL_TYPE. (Eddi)
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: - It caused YAPF to end prematurely there when it was searching for another path (for non-electric engine).
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: - It can lead to sub-optimal path taken or 'train is lost' message.
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: - In MP game it can also cause desync.
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: (...)
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>@more
07:19<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
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07:19<Eddi|zuHause>what?!
07:19<Xaroth>dorpsgek doesn't seem to like you, Eddi|zuHause :P
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07:19<frosch123>"Since non-static C++ methods have an implicit this argument, the arguments of such methods should be counted from two, not one, when giving values for string-index and first-to-check. " <- \o/
07:20<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: also in principle ALL trains are the same here :-) We only transport wood ;-)
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07:20<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but maybe there's a hint on how it might be solved...
07:20<planetmaker>agreed :-)
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07:29<roboboy>gnight
07:29<@peter1138>brrr, cold fniggers
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07:35<Eddi|zuHause>you should visit that forum...
07:35<planetmaker>tsk
07:38<@peter1138>http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/129101309641736988.jpg
07:38<@peter1138>...
07:38<Xaroth>that'd be so awesome with snow
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07:45<planetmaker>lol
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07:48<Eddi|zuHause>my neighbours have something similar, just below ground...
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>and each time there is big rain, they have a huge problem...
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07:54<_33joe_>hi
07:54<_33joe_>someone alive ?
07:55<TrueBrain>nope
07:55<@Rubidium>yes, but people don't react to those meta questions
07:56-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz]
07:57<_33joe_>ok
07:57<_33joe_>mám konkrétnu otázku : ako nastavím aby sa neaktívna spoločnosť ponúkla na predaj aktívnemu hráčovi
07:57<_33joe_>bad widnow :D
07:57<_33joe_>I have a specific question: how to set up an inactive company offered to sell an active player
07:57-!-ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd
07:57<_33joe_>?
07:58<planetmaker>if not bancrupt: none
07:58-!-KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-133-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
07:58<planetmaker>as admin you could delete it
07:58<TrueBrain>you understood his questions? Kudos to you :)
08:00<_33joe_>thts shame, i do not want to delete comapnies thats are good, bud has no players
08:00<planetmaker>maybe they come back again?
08:00<planetmaker>they'd be even more annoyed if someone swallowed their company, I guess
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>_33joe_: you can remove their password and let someone else play
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>but that is dangerous
08:04<_33joe_>so I get an offer to buy only if the company's bankruptcy?
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes
08:05<_33joe_>:( there shuld by an option instead of autoclean to sell comapny to an active player
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>make it ;)
08:08<_33joe_>ok, have a nice day
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09:00<@Rubidium>planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/macosx-universal-error.log (Q.E.D.)
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09:02<planetmaker>oha :-) Thanks
09:02<planetmaker>that's with the random re-defined, e.g. the #ifdef removed, right?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>Quite Extraordinarily Dumb :)
09:03<@Rubidium>that's with random2.diff
09:03<planetmaker>ok. So... better random1.diff?
09:04<@Rubidium>probably yes :(
09:05<planetmaker>well. I could investigate to find out when random() deprecates... but that'd basically mean to combine both with a #ifdef <version>
09:05<planetmaker>and why didn't I get the deprecation messages? :S
09:06<@Rubidium>10.6 dropped everything "quick"?
09:06<@Rubidium>especially x64
09:07<planetmaker>there are iirc still some quickdraw things there
09:07<planetmaker>though quite a few got deprecated
09:08<@Rubidium>still, it's just 'not available' for x64
09:09<planetmaker>that'd explain. Now you mention it: yes, I recall that I read somewhere in the docs they also not plan to make it available
09:10<@Rubidium>"Important: QuickDraw is deprecated in Mac OS X v10.5 and later. QuickDraw is not available for 64-bit applications."
09:11<planetmaker>yeah. Thus not on my machine
09:12<planetmaker>thus no conflict and deprecation message. Hm, interesting.
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i should get the fast computer back... a video conversion job that took 20 minutes on the new one, takes 5 hours on the old one...
09:12<planetmaker>So... random1.diff is it, I guess
09:12<@peter1138>stupid apple and their api game
09:12<planetmaker>or would you say that it should check the target architecture?
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09:21*Rubidium wonders why quickdraw hasn't been dropped already; seems like most of quartz already existed in 10.2
09:26<@Rubidium>oh, some sites claim quartz is extremely slow with the stuff 'we' do
09:28<@peter1138>we're all supposed to use opengl these days
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09:36<Lakie>Even for 2D, peter1138?
09:36<@peter1138>yup
09:36*Lakie thought openGL was more designed for 3D
09:36<@peter1138>you've never looked at the api
09:36<Phazorx>Rubi/peter
09:37<Phazorx>coopers desync seems to be relevant to train unloading
09:37<Phazorx>are tere any randomization in it ?
09:37<Lakie>I've looked at some of it, such as the raster systems and such
09:37<Phazorx>and when exactly does profit calculation happen (as in start of unload or when it actually is done?)
09:38<planetmaker>Phazorx: look at the station. If the PF uses a random number, the train unloads at a DIFFERENT station
09:38<planetmaker>so that's quite plausible to look for the reason in the PF
09:38<planetmaker>but a check might only occur then later... when the train arrived
09:38<Lakie>houldn't all random numbers be the same, or does openTTD not check random numbers in action executions?
09:39<Phazorx>planetmaker: unlikely it is the case
09:39<@Rubidium>Lakie: should yes, a desync is when that 'should' doesn't hold
09:39<Phazorx>when trains where stopped, that one was already half way into platform
09:39<planetmaker>Phazorx: then I propose you do a desync debug as frosch did.
09:39<Lakie>Thats true, uses that randomm number as the check doesn't it.
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09:39<Phazorx>planetmaker: i lack facility
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09:40<@Rubidium>Lakie: yup
09:40<Phazorx>mingw compiled oppenttd here crashes when i attach gdb
09:40<@peter1138>opengl is perfectly suited to 2D rendering... as long as all your images are powers of 2 :s
09:40<planetmaker>you don't need gdb for desync debug. There's a wiki page describing what to do, Phazorx
09:41<frosch123>Phazorx: the desync i debuged is a yapf/yapp cache problem which has nothing to do with unloading
09:41<Lakie>Ah, that isn't true thogh, peter1138, tiles are 64x31 iirc...
09:41<Phazorx>well my strtegy is also outdated then
09:41<planetmaker>desync debug openttd tells you
09:41<planetmaker>*googling for
09:41<Phazorx>frosch123: which is why i am asking if randomization is used anywhere in that process
09:41<planetmaker>as you need to compare client and server
09:41<Phazorx>or there is something else happening which is not visible to me
09:42<planetmaker>read that wiki page ;-) or compile with --enable-desync-debug
09:42<planetmaker>and you'll know it all
09:42<planetmaker>as it will tell you every single f***g random call
09:42<@peter1138>Lakie, exactly
09:43<@peter1138>Lakie, and, well, that's just tiles. other sprites are all manner of different sizes
09:43<Lakie>True
09:43<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/dumptrainposition.diff <- Phazorx: the random thingie is only a later incident when a train throws an electric spark which is already stopped on the client or server. to see the actual desync you have to print the track the trains choose
09:43<frosch123>i.e. when the random difference is detected it is already too late
09:46<frosch123>at your dropoff station you let trains first decide for platforms 1-3 or 4-6. yesterday there was a train which decided differently at that point on client/server
09:48<frosch123>well, depending on join date it were different trains at different dates, but always one of the dropoffs
09:48<Phazorx>frosch123: i was told that the ONLY possibility to detect a desync for ottd is random calls hence my desire to confirm that there is a randomization involved in unloading process (to me that would be strange)
09:49<Phazorx>based on that i'd be able to beter approach the isse, since if the active train is not the reason for it - reason must be somewhere else and there is no point to mess with the unloading train
09:49<frosch123>there is randomisation involved in unloading, e.g. trains can rerandomize their graphics when unloaded
09:49<frosch123>but that is not the case here
09:49<Phazorx>"here" ?
09:49<Phazorx>are you looking at current PSG too?
09:50<frosch123>no, so did you encounter a desync again even with disable yapf cache?
09:50<Phazorx>i'm not sure of pm "fixed" the server but i'd presume he did and it still desyncs
09:51<Phazorx>however the case i am talking about is from yesterday
09:51<Phazorx>when all activity was stopped and client joined fine as well as stayed w/o desyncing for a while
09:51<frosch123>you also need to patch your client
09:51<Phazorx>in attempt to figure out why, i sarted triggering trains one at time
09:51<Phazorx>to see when people start dropping
09:52<Phazorx>a particular case when a train, that was stopped half way into the platform, started unloading kicked everyone
09:52<frosch123>anyway, i encountered only one type of desync with fs#3619
09:52<planetmaker>Phazorx: I tested whether disabling the cache had a positive effect. All people desynced but myself (who I had the cache also disabled)
09:52<planetmaker>I reverted the patch, though
09:52<Phazorx>that looks like different one
09:53<KenjiE20>pm; sucessfully tried it, but reverted, as it needs a patched client, which isn't much good for us..... ^ that
09:53<@Rubidium>Phazorx: the desync errors/kicks you get way after the actual desync happens
09:53<Phazorx>planetmaker: did you rejoined after server was started?
09:53<Phazorx>Rubidium: but only when there is something random
09:53<planetmaker>well. Of course I have to join?
09:53<@Rubidium>Phazorx: unless a cache is incorrect
09:53<@Rubidium>or inconsistent
09:54<Phazorx>planetmaker: if there are no server ticks between when you joined and when game started you wont desync
09:54<Phazorx>so you have to rejoin after server starts going
09:54<planetmaker>I wasn't first to join
09:54<planetmaker>so there have been
09:54<planetmaker>One other person desynced before I joined ;-)
09:54<Phazorx>Rubidium Phazorx: the desync errors/kicks you get way after the actual desync happens<< which is why i AGAIN ask wether there is ANY randomization happening when train starts to unload
09:55<fonsinchen>Is it known that the station view window does not cleanly shade?
09:55<@Rubidium>Phazorx: it isn't the randomisation that causes the desyncs!
09:55<@Rubidium>it's the randomisations that DETECT the desyncs
09:55<Phazorx>Rubidium: but it is randomization that detects and kicks
09:56<Phazorx>so it appeared to me that unloading train caused clients to get kicked
09:56<Phazorx>which why i assume that it is the reason
09:56<planetmaker>that's contradictory
09:56<Phazorx>that assumption may only hold water if randomzation is used in ubloadin
09:56<planetmaker>or inconclusive
09:56<planetmaker>a tracer is not the cause
09:56<@Rubidium>it's probably more delivery to an industry
09:57<Phazorx>it is inconclusive if you guys refuse to tell me if there is rnadomization on start of unload process :)
09:57<planetmaker>Phazorx: because everyone would have to look it up, just as well you could do it.
09:57<Phazorx>if you tell me there isnt - it's quite clear that the train is irrelevant
09:57<Phazorx>Rubidium: does delivery to industry happens gradually?
09:57<@Rubidium>yup
09:57<Phazorx>kk
09:58<Phazorx>and i guess you imply that randomization is like between multiple possible destinations?
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09:59<Phazorx>pm: we have funky station design there btw
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09:59<Phazorx>each 4 platforms in group are from different stations, hooked to different sawmills
09:59<planetmaker>Phazorx: did you read the flyspray ticket?
09:59-!-jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
09:59<Phazorx>planetmaker: the cache one?
09:59<planetmaker>You might then have noted that I made that statement there already...
10:00<planetmaker>No the one with the pink oranges...
10:00<frosch123>the more intesting layout is actually, that the dropoff station is not part of the orders
10:01<planetmaker>hehe :-)
10:01<planetmaker>that's by design
10:01<planetmaker>but indeed it would be worth mentioning that, too
10:02<Phazorx>would be interesting to know what Chris Sawyer would think about SRNW design :)
10:03<Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> opengl is perfectly suited to 2D rendering... as long as all your images are powers of 2 :s <-- and what if you just add transparent pixels to all sprites?
10:03<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, you have to, yes
10:04<ccfreak2k>And what if you use ARB_texture_non_power_of_two?
10:04<@Rubidium>I reckon that Apple doesn't want to support that
10:04<Lakie>It doesn't garintue to work with stock opengl.
10:07-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@243.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd
10:07<@peter1138>anyway, we know plain opengl doesn't work with openttd
10:07-!-onemanbucket [~Administr@c-b7ade155.128-3-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd
10:07<onemanbucket>hello! is it alright to ask a noob question? :)
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10:08<Alberth>try it
10:08<onemanbucket>I'm trying to demolish a bus station, but I only get the message "Must demolish bus station first"
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10:09<planetmaker>sounds strange
10:09<planetmaker>do you use the road removal tool or the dynamite?
10:09<onemanbucket>i've tried both
10:09<planetmaker>e.g. bulldozer vs. dynamite? hm...
10:09<planetmaker>which version?
10:09<planetmaker>of OpenTTD?
10:10<onemanbucket>i think it's the latest one
10:10<onemanbucket>i just downloaded it
10:10<@Rubidium>the bulldozer should work, the dynamite might not if the road's owned by someone else (IIRC)
10:10<onemanbucket>and the bulldozer is greyed out
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>you have to click "build station" before the bulldozer
10:10<onemanbucket>Ah! that solved it
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>the bulldozer turns "build XXX" into "remove XXX"
10:11<onemanbucket>Didn't realize i had to select the build bus station command first
10:11<onemanbucket>anwyay, now it works. thanks!
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10:14<ctibor>I have set pikkabird's basic industries parameter as pikkindw.grf = 1 in openttd.cfg according to wiki, to have food plant and brewery producing food in temperate, but it doesn't work. Industries still produce goods. Hasy anyone clue what the parameter should be?
10:16<frosch123>if you do it in openttd.cfg it will only apply to new games
10:17<ctibor>Just started new game and it still tells me, the same. Clicked on random Food processing plant and all I can see is goods
10:20<planetmaker>ctibor: if you exited openttd, changes will probably have been overwritten
10:20<frosch123>if you open the newgrf settings and select pbi: does it show the parameters in the infobox?
10:21<ctibor>yes
10:21<ctibor>it does
10:22<ctibor>I see, i have old pbi version
10:22<ctibor>1.2
10:22<ctibor>must upgrade so nvm
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10:36<ccfreak2k>For those that missed it, this is what openttd looks like on a gamecube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9yxkLGkI3c
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10:37<ctibor>But now secondary industries are generated away from towns and cities...
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10:40<planetmaker>that's then how pikka wants it. It's a newgrf property to define where industries may be placed and where not
10:44<ctibor>planetmaker: But it is definetely not placed according to the description on his wiki
10:46<ctibor>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32137&start=360 - solution is here
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12:40<Eddi|zuHause>hm. so my 5 hour job is now 3 hours in, 44% done and has 8 hours ETA...
12:40<Hirundo>When compiling from hg source, I can't join network games (without modifications) since the revision string is different
12:40<SpComb^>Eddi|zuHause: final_estimate = initial_estimate * pi
12:41<Hirundo>Could this be changed, so the svn revision is read from the log (only if possible, of course) and used as revision string?
12:42<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb^: in german we say "Pi mal Daumen" [pi times thumb] when something is an estimate ;)
12:42*SpComb^ wonders how silly it would be to automatically tag each hg-svn commit with the svn rev number
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>Hirundo: maybe you need to hack findversion.sh?
12:43<Phazorx>http://qdb.us/301794
12:43<SpComb^>well, findversion.sh already greps the hg log for the svn rev
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>so why doesn't this work then?
12:43<SpComb^>not sure if the revno is used anywhere in the build
12:44<SpComb^>it's a separate output field
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12:45<Eddi|zuHause>hm.. that quote is not funny...
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>especially when read out of context, it's just senseless brabble
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12:48<frosch123>SpComb^: hg uses the svn revision for the "newgrf version"
12:48<SpComb^>right
12:49<planetmaker>Hirundo, if you output REV instead of REV_NR in findversion.h, it should work. Might need a test whether it is actually a (modified) svn version.
12:50<SpComb^>it's missing the r prefix, iirc :)
12:50<planetmaker>The latter is a bit tricky. As there might be several (hg / git) commits in a local repo, so that e.g only the 8th oldest commit corresponds to a (valid) svn version
12:50<SpComb^>and no M suffix
12:50<SpComb^>indeed, then it isn't a clean trunk anymore
12:51<planetmaker>SpComb^, yes. h for hg and g for git
12:51<SpComb^>but, if you were to tag each incoming svn commit in the hg-svn repo with the rXXXX name, then it would... work
12:51<TrueBrain>problem with hg: your 'hg tip' can be a SVN version, while it is modified
12:51<TrueBrain>so using svn version is not safe
12:51<TrueBrain>SpComb^: not really, only if you would merge 'properly' in such cases, which nobody will :p
12:51<planetmaker>TrueBrain, the modified state can be determined the usual way.
12:51<TrueBrain>planetmaker: modified, yes, if the commit is not committed
12:52<TrueBrain>where that is the idea of a hg checkout
12:52<planetmaker>But yes, there's the chance to 'fake' a commit message with the svn rXXX
12:52<TrueBrain>it is not detectable if there is a difference between current tip, and svn version
12:52<SpComb^>TrueBrain: merge?
12:52<TrueBrain>planetmaker: not even fake
12:52<SpComb^>talking about clean trunk checkouts in hg
12:52<planetmaker>I once had a patch for that as it bugged me, too, that I couldn't join servers without explicitly giving the rev ;-)
12:52<TrueBrain>SpComb^: the problem is in detecting this 'clean' checkout of hg
12:53<planetmaker>TrueBrain, yes, I know, there's no way to tell. You only have you hg repo, sure
12:53<Ammler>findversion.sh could detect if tip has a svn changset, then it isn't modified and could use svn rev
12:53<planetmaker>Ammler, I could make commits myself which then would be detected as such
12:53<Ammler>else they should be modifed anyway.
12:53<TrueBrain>Ammler: as I said a moment ago, no, you cannot
12:54<TrueBrain>the 'tip' being a svn commit does NOT guarantee the hg is unchanged (with respect to the SVN)
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12:54<planetmaker>I don't understand that argument of yours quite, TrueBrain
12:54<TrueBrain>I make a hg clone
12:54<planetmaker>hg and svn of OpenTTD are synced
12:54<TrueBrain>I make a few commits
12:54<TrueBrain>I sync my hg
12:54<Ammler>TrueBrain: but then somoene could need to make a commit with that in the message
12:54<TrueBrain>the latest changeset can be a 'svn' commit
12:54<TrueBrain>still, I have changes
12:54<planetmaker>ah. got it. Yes
12:54<SpComb^>`hg id` will suffix a + if there are local modifications
12:55<TrueBrain>there simply isn't a stable and always-correct method to make hg and svn in 'sync', network wise
12:55<SpComb^>TrueBrain: if your tip is a commit from the openttd hg repo, it can't have any modifications in it...
12:55<TrueBrain>SpComb^: _if_ :)
12:55<TrueBrain>there are very simple ways around that
12:55<SpComb^>otherwise, it's a merge between the openttd branch and your custom stuff
12:55<TrueBrain>which I used the first N months I used Mercurial, because I didn't know better :)
12:56<TrueBrain>most people using Mercurial do not branch
12:56<TrueBrain>they use the default to work in
12:56<TrueBrain>after which a pull is applied on top of it
12:56<SpComb^>won't it still end up being a merge commit as tip?
12:56<TrueBrain>not perse
12:58<planetmaker>uhm... but then those changes are not active, if you have more than one head, or?
12:58<Hirundo>Isn't the parent revision of the working directory of more interest than the tip?
12:58<TrueBrain>Hirundo: possible that gives more sane information
12:59<TrueBrain>either way, tricky slope .. I would strongly advise to avoid such complexity
12:59<planetmaker>hg parent is a good thing and better than tip, yes
12:59<planetmaker>hg findversion uses it ;-)
13:00<planetmaker>err... -hg
13:00<TrueBrain>(git btw is even worse in all this)
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13:00<SpComb^>`hg id` is the right thing to use
13:01<SpComb^>"identify the working copy"
13:01<@Rubidium>hg/git repositories are made to ease development of external patches, not to use to build 'clean' trunk
13:01<planetmaker>@commit 16462
13:01<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by rubidium :: r16462 trunk/findversion.sh (2009-05-29 21:24:51 UTC)
13:01<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: -Change [FS#2930]: use a safer way to detect the hash of a mercurial repository (planetmaker)
13:01<planetmaker>:-P ^ Hirundo
13:02<SpComb^>isn't `hg id` available in old versions of mercurial, or why isn't that used?
13:03<TrueBrain>hg id doesn't give enough information
13:04<SpComb^>it should give you MODIFIED, REV, BRANCH
13:04<TrueBrain>$ hg id
13:04<TrueBrain>657514b50c09 tip
13:04<planetmaker>SpComb^, it doesn't. Just the hash, if not tip
13:04<SpComb^>hg id -ibt
13:05<Hirundo>^^ it can show branches/tags/modifications
13:05<planetmaker>question is: modifications with respect to what? To svn trunk will be difficult
13:05<TrueBrain>to clean tip
13:06<planetmaker>clean parent
13:06<SpComb^>no, to clean id
13:06<SpComb^>there can be two ids, but I guess that's only if there's an uncommited merge going on?
13:06<TrueBrain>I hate the word 'parent' how mercurial uses it, it gives another suggestion to the function :p
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13:07<SpComb^>tip isn't relevant when dealing with "what's this checkout"
13:08<planetmaker>hm, and we know how many revisions the trunk mercurial revision differs from the svn.
13:08<planetmaker>thus we could see whether this repo has additional local commits
13:08<TrueBrain>planetmaker: that only is true if you would have one branch
13:08<planetmaker>in the hg repo?
13:08<TrueBrain>yes
13:09<planetmaker>yes. I know
13:09<TrueBrain>so then it only works with a full clean checkout, which makes it all completely useless anyway
13:09<planetmaker>uhm... not really
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13:10<planetmaker>I could clone openttd trunk and get a version I can join servers with
13:10<TrueBrain>still using subversion is more stable and sane in that case
13:10<planetmaker>My modifications are anyway in other development repos ;-)
13:10<TrueBrain>as Rubidium says, hg and git are only for development
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13:11<TrueBrain>either way, even in that case I think you can do stuff ..
13:11<TrueBrain>in git for sure
13:11<TrueBrain>now I wonder about Mercurial
13:12<Alberth>there are wonderfull rebase extensions for hg afaik
13:12<TrueBrain>SpComb^: 'hg id -ibt' is useless :p
13:12<TrueBrain>hg clone ... && hg update -r 14551
13:12<Ammler>or simply change $REV to $REV_NR in findversion.sh...
13:12<TrueBrain>oh, nevermind, 'hg diff' doesn't show new files :p
13:12<TrueBrain>Alberth: hgqueues are much more sane :)
13:13<Hirundo>Hmmm... my openttd crashes in the code that is supposed to help me debug another bug :S
13:13<Alberth>TrueBrain: still looking for a versioned variant of that :)
13:13<planetmaker>TrueBrain, hg diff does show them - if added. But then an existing file is also modified
13:14<TrueBrain>patric@smallbrain:/prog/openttd/test2.hg$ hg diff
13:14<TrueBrain>patric@smallbrain:/prog/openttd/test2.hg$ hg status
13:14<TrueBrain>A temp.txt
13:14<planetmaker>Alberth, you can do that, versioned hg queues
13:14<Hirundo>Alberth: it's perfectly possible to run your patches dir as a hg repo, effectively versioning it
13:14<TrueBrain>a patch of a patch! WHOHO :p
13:15<Hirundo>Indeed, interpreting the second derivative of the actual code can be a pain :)
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>diffing diffs is funny ;)
13:15<TrueBrain>something I refuse to do :)
13:15<Alberth>sometimes it is useful
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>you get a lot of rubbish when just the line numbers change
13:15<SpComb^>there should be a diff tool for diffs
13:15<planetmaker>TrueBrain, that's only valid for empty files
13:15<Alberth>not so much to understand the changes but just to check there are none :)
13:15<TrueBrain>planetmaker: still, wrong
13:15<planetmaker>maybe also binary
13:16<planetmaker>something which cannot be diff'ed properly
13:16<planetmaker>But with a non-empty text file it shows diffs here of added files
13:17<TrueBrain>why not for empty files?
13:17<TrueBrain>at least tell about it?
13:17<TrueBrain>it is a diff after all ..
13:17<TrueBrain>(and yes, I do not agree with a lot of choices Mercurial has made :p)
13:17<planetmaker>:-) WHY they chose to do that: dunno.
13:17-!-PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
13:18<planetmaker>Actually that's one of the things I didn't understand when I read about mercurial either
13:18<planetmaker>as sometimes the filename itself can have a meaning
13:18<Ammler>svn doesn't either, does it?
13:18<TrueBrain>Ammler: it does
13:19<TrueBrain>$ svn diff
13:19<TrueBrain>Index: temp.txt
13:19<TrueBrain>===================================================================
13:19<Forked>how did they compile the first compiler!?
13:19<Forked>(I know, they wrote it in "machine code", you guys are no fun)
13:19<TrueBrain>you really want an answer, or are you just trolling?
13:20<Forked>hehe, I was at some point in life wondering :) I don't see it evolving like the chicken and the egg thing
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>as opposed to the hen and egg problem, this really is an easy question :)
13:20<TrueBrain>why would they have written it in machine code?!
13:20<TrueBrain>punchcards for the win!
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>of course before the compiler there was the interpreter
13:20<Forked>don't bite! it was a non-relevant question. Sorry about the sort of trolling
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>so you can implement a compiler in the interpreter
13:21<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: one could debate a punchcard reading is an interpreter :p
13:21<planetmaker>hm.. what's the svn equivalent of hg forget?
13:21<__ln__>of course they compiled the first compiler by saying "apt-get install build-essential" first!
13:21<TrueBrain>planetmaker: good luck finding that :p Let me know when you do :) (except setting the ignore file)
13:22<planetmaker>forget un-adds a file to be commited
13:22<planetmaker>(but leaves the file itself untouched)
13:22<TrueBrain>planetmaker: it is a bit stronger: it forgets about the file
13:22<TrueBrain>(as in: it stops tracking it)
13:22<SpComb^>planetmaker: hg del -R or such
13:22<TrueBrain>but svn has nothing of the like
13:23<SpComb^>rm -A
13:23<TrueBrain>cp <file> temp.txt && svn revert <file> && mv temp.txt <file> :p
13:23<ccfreak2k>If I invent some radically new traffic control structure in openttd, can I name it whatever I want?
13:23<TrueBrain>ccfreak2k: no, it has to contain: Yet Another
13:23<ccfreak2k>Then my next trick will be "Yet Another Widowmaker".
13:23<Alberth>or 'improved'
13:24<TrueBrain>or Not Another
13:24<planetmaker>well. revert did the trick (though it removed it, too) for the nasty test file I added :-P
13:24<TrueBrain>svn is dumb, when it comes to such things
13:24<SpComb^>or something, I can't remember :P
13:25<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you can do: svn rm --keep-local :p
13:25<planetmaker>he :-) good to know
13:27<TrueBrain>Forked: but to educate you a bit: most old compilers were first written in an interpreter, not in machine code
13:28<ccfreak2k>Alright, I think I finally have joystick input tuned.
13:28<ccfreak2k>Next item: pause.
13:29<TrueBrain>lol, love reading the internet: the first compiler was a C-compiler <- BULLSHIT :p
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>hm... shall i try to screw up my system by installing KDE 4.4?
13:29<TrueBrain>yes
13:29<TrueBrain>(I feel a Q-Ball now)
13:29*ccfreak2k is running KDE 4.4.
13:29<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: better switch to xfce
13:30<TrueBrain>xfce4 is nice :)
13:30<TrueBrain>fast ...
13:30<ccfreak2k>I lied, it's 4.3.
13:30<SpComb^>pick up ion3 development
13:30<TrueBrain>ccfreak2k: go sit in the corner now
13:30<SpComb^>awesome is pretty annoying
13:30<ccfreak2k>:(
13:30<SpComb^>every time I download something with firefox, it completely messes up everything
13:30*frosch123 uses xfce4 and kde4libs, but actually the kde4 tools in use (konsole and kate) are still screwed enough
13:31<TrueBrain>frosch123: konsole? Why? Terminal (part of XFCE4) is much better/faster
13:31<ccfreak2k>I don't use xfce, but I do think it's a nice tradeoff between *box and KDE/GNOME.
13:31<TrueBrain>same for kate and the XFCE wordpad
13:31<Hirundo>frosch123: It seems I'm having the same problems as you with the stuff in dbg_helper being broken. Shall I report my crash as a separate FS entry? (http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3619)
13:31<TrueBrain>I use kdelibs for okular (pdf viewer)
13:32<frosch123>Hirundo: just wait some seconds :)
13:32*Hirundo waits
13:32<frosch123>i need to cook up a message
13:32-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:32<ccfreak2k>If I wanted to pause the game in code in sdl_v.cpp, what would be the best way to do it?
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>but i like the bloat of ktorrent, konversation, kmail, amarok and others...
13:32<TrueBrain>I still have no alternative of konversion
13:33*planetmaker gives additional salt and pepper to frosch123
13:33<planetmaker>(for a tasty dinner) ;-)
13:33<TrueBrain>with eggs!
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>i deeply loathe dolphin...
13:33<planetmaker>yes. Quiche is with eggs :-)
13:33<planetmaker>I still have half of one.
13:34<frosch123>Hirundo: try again :)
13:34<TrueBrain>still no CIA?
13:34<Markk>I liked the bloat too. Before I saw this: http://cdn.solidfiles.net/i/snff.png
13:34<Markk><3
13:35<Hirundo>thanks
13:35<Markk>It's Ubuntu with Gnome and Elementary Desktop on that (with Docky2).
13:36<TrueBrain>@whoami
13:36<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: TrueBrain
13:37<TrueBrain>@reload XMLRPC
13:37<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:37<TrueBrain>@reload XMLRPC
13:37<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: The operation succeeded.
13:38<Markk>@whoami
13:38<@DorpsGek>Markk: I don't recognize you.
13:38<Markk>:<
13:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r19134 /trunk/src/misc (3 files) (2010-02-14 18:33:57 UTC)
13:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r16983, r17219): YAPF debug output was quite broken.
13:38<TrueBrain>there
13:38<TrueBrain>till CIA is back :p
13:38<frosch123>you broke .notice, i committed it only once :p
13:39<TrueBrain>see you in court :p
13:40-!-ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>hm... and kaffeine still did not manage to get 1.0
13:44-!-bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r19135 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2010-02-14 18:45:24 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 2 changes by
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by mantaray
13:45-!-APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_nynorsk - 127 changes by mantaray
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 199 changes by keso53
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
13:45<planetmaker>Markk, that doesn't look like a linux desktop. Or is it?
13:46<Markk>planetmaker: It is. :)
13:46<Markk>Ubuntu 9.10
13:46<planetmaker>can you tell me which one?
13:46<lennard>sure it is
13:46<lennard>its a gnome with some skin and stuffs
13:46<planetmaker>nice one. A clone of apple ;-)
13:46<Markk>07:34:09 PM < Markk> It's Ubuntu with Gnome and Elementary Desktop on that (with Docky2).
13:46<planetmaker>ah, missed that, sorry
13:46<Markk>np :)
13:46<lennard>the top panel is *very* recognizable :)
13:47<Markk>:D
13:47<Markk>Yeah, don't really like that panel, but can't really remove it.
13:47<lennard>I don't know why you'd want to watch deal or no deal though... ;)
13:47<planetmaker>lennard, not only the the top panel. Also the window decorations. And the app bar below
13:47<lennard>planetmaker: the app bar is so not gnome
13:47<lennard>not default anyway :P
13:48<planetmaker>Well: I'm telling that it looks like my OSX :-) 1:1
13:48<Markk>lennard: It's a MAD parody. :)
13:48<Markk>The appbar is Docky2.
13:49<Markk>http://www.elementary-project.com/
13:49<Markk>(It comes with elementary desktop)
13:51<Markk>Now: Buy some tacos/burritos or something. :)
13:51<Markk>bai
13:51<TrueBrain>enjoy
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>get a Döner...
13:52<Markk>Thanks. :)
13:52<Markk>Eddi|zuHause: I'm veggie. :)
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>they have vegetarian döner as well...
13:52<Markk>Isn't döner dönerkebab?
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>only when you add kebab ;)
13:53<Markk>:D
13:53<Markk>Yeye, bye. :)
13:54<TrueBrain>"You died"
13:54<TrueBrain>yes .. that was clear to me too
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13:59<ccfreak2k>Going to use DoCommandP then./
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14:04<frosch123>TrueBrain: ok, Terminal does not have the first-row bugs of konsole. but you were not actually suggesting mousepad to me?
14:05<TrueBrain>no, I was suggesting Editor
14:07-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:09<frosch123>i cannot find something that matches "Editor". there are only mousepad and leafpad, and both do not qualify as editor to me
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>yay kwin crashed on me and can't be restarted because of "segmentation fault"
14:11<TrueBrain>not to program C, no, that is true :)
14:12-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd
14:12<planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=855904#p855904 <-- frosch123 : like that ;-)
14:12-!-Boyinblue0 [~Boyinblue@94-192-250-36.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:13<planetmaker>?
14:13<TrueBrain>!
14:13<frosch123>:p
14:13<TrueBrain>:D
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>¡
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>maybe i should move to australia
14:14<planetmaker>don't. You might fall off the Earth
14:14<planetmaker>everything's upside down there.
14:15<planetmaker>http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/mcarthur-large.jpg <-- see
14:15<frosch123>planetmaker: exactly, upside down, including gravity
14:16<TrueBrain>spooky
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14:47<TrueBrain>"Your IP is selected as possible winner"
14:47<TrueBrain>lol
14:47-!-Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
14:49<planetmaker>scammy
14:50<TrueBrain>it is like saying: this lottery ticket is selected as possible winner
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>quick! install their program!
14:50<planetmaker>and enter your bank account details.
14:50<TrueBrain>how else are they going to pay me?
14:51<Sacro>sex?
14:51<TrueBrain>hmm
14:51<TrueBrain>boobies
14:51<Sacro>'enter your phone number and we'll fax her to you'
14:51<ccfreak2k>Pause works.
14:51<ccfreak2k>I ended up calling HandleKeypress().
14:51<TrueBrain>oeh, and I can pause her!
14:51<planetmaker>I'm somewhat sure I wouldn't want to touch theirs even with sanetary gloves and a long pike
14:52<TrueBrain>planetmaker: LOL!
14:54<Zuu>Lol, took me until title game 7 to realize that the two images of each title game was not just different moments in time but also one with OpenGFX and one with original graphics. :-D
14:54<planetmaker>:-D
14:54<planetmaker>There are even more than just two images ;-)
14:55<Zuu>yea, for each resolution as well.
14:55<planetmaker>makes kinda a difference
14:55<planetmaker>Actually it's also interesting to listen to those games :-)
14:55-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:55<Zuu>Im first giving 0-5 for the small one and then another 0-5 for how well they look in a big view.
14:55<planetmaker>No points for feature-complete etc?
14:56<Zuu>That is included.
14:56<frosch123>and negative points for bridges over the whole screen?
14:56<planetmaker>long bridges? ;-)
14:56<planetmaker>it's not necessarily bad. Depends IMO
14:58<Zuu>The first 0-4 in 640x480 is mostly that they got all transport modes in screen and one extra if it looks good as well.
14:59<planetmaker>:-) Well... I give also points for completeness in different rail types, signal types, drive-through vs. "normal" road stops, one-way streets and level-crossings closing on path signals ;-)
14:59<frosch123>planetmaker: imo no part should be too big/dominant. so imo very long bridges, stations with 4+ platforms, long stretches of oneway-road, ... are bad :)
15:00<planetmaker>frosch123, agreed :-) Still that doesn't exclude an ueber-long bridge. Just makes it less likely to fit
15:00<ccfreak2k>Ok, zoom works too.
15:00<ccfreak2k>I just need to add network support and figure out why writes are not being completed.
15:14<frosch123>planetmaker: oh, and coop-style priority-signal cheating is also "bad" :)
15:15<planetmaker>he, is it? ;-)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>i should have finished my attempt...
15:15<planetmaker>Lucky me, that I didn't use it.
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15:18<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, the game for v2 :-P
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>?
15:19*frosch123 sets up his scores
15:19<Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: when v2.0.0 is about to be released
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>err... yes... certainly...
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't know what i just did, but the estimate just went from "1:33" to "7:34" (hours)...
15:21<planetmaker>you slowed down. Quite obviously
15:22<DJNekkid>hi OpenTTD'ers ...
15:22<DJNekkid>i got a technical question ...
15:22<DJNekkid>Im makeing a "new tracks" set, with some "limited speed" rails ... cheaper slower, faster and more expensive ...
15:23<DJNekkid>i got vehicles that are defined to use the "fastest" type...
15:23<DJNekkid>but the "inbetweens" are not available to build...
15:23<frosch123>see the railtopic, that problem has been discussed
15:23<frosch123>afaik there is no solution yet :)
15:24<DJNekkid>not a proposed one either?
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>has it been discussed how to handle pathfinder penalties for "suboptimal" railtypes?
15:27<rhaeder1>hi. what was the link for finding my own tickets I have reported? I have now reproduced one (if you remember, the lost trains while mass maintenance)
15:28<planetmaker>my searches -> tasks I opened
15:28<planetmaker>^ rhaeder1
15:29<rhaeder1>hmmm nothing
15:29<rhaeder1>but I found it. okay, it isn't that same bug :(
15:29<rhaeder1>but nearly
15:29<planetmaker>hm, it shows only open tasks
15:29<rhaeder1>http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?opened=1420&status[]=
15:30<rhaeder1>I mean this link :)
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15:33<rhaeder1>uploading savegame now :)
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15:34<rhaeder1>done: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3624
15:41<rhaeder1>happened temporarily :(
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15:42<Eddi|zuHause># what shall we do with the sleeping kittens
15:43<@Rubidium>something with a shredder?
15:47<Sacro>shredder you say?
15:47<Sacro>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aja7gcgRMJU&feature=related
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15:57<Alberth>rhaeder1: I think you need more depots. I send all trains to a depot, and 3 trains didn't find one in time.
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16:01<frosch123>somehow nr.9 should be scrolled a bit more towards SE
16:06<Sacro>frosch123: York aeh
16:06<Sacro>er
16:06<Sacro>Frankr: York eh
16:07<Frankr>hello
16:07<frosch123>what?
16:07<Frankr>Sacro?
16:09-!-Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit []
16:09<Sacro>Frankr: just watching from a distance (hull ;))
16:10<Frankr>Ok cool
16:10<rhaeder1>Alberth: okay
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16:12<Alberth>rhaeder1: also, I cannot simply reproduce a lost vehicle message with current trunk, it seems.
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16:15<@Rubidium>it's probably just a network where sending vehicles to a depot brings them in a place where they can't find their way back or so
16:18<rhaeder1>Alberth: I had it only once popping up but didn't return :(
16:20<Alberth>we need a save game that reliably reproduces the problem, otherwise we spend forever looking for the needle in a hay stack, if the needle even exists.
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16:45<TrueBrain>feeding a pig bacon is wrong
16:45<planetmaker>lol ;-)
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17:05<TrueBrain>SAPPERDEDOSIO!
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17:29<TrueBrain>damn, you guys are boring
17:29*Prof_Frink puts down the power drill
17:30<TrueBrain>abuot time
17:30<TrueBrain>that noise was ANNOYING
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17:31<Eddi|zuHause>you haven't heard that computer that i had...
17:32<TrueBrain>I work in DataCenters
17:32<TrueBrain>there is no noise your computer made that I haven't heard before
17:32<valhallasw>TrueBrain, related: http://www.ted.com/talks/julian_treasure_the_4_ways_sound_affects_us.html
17:33<TrueBrain>haha, doesn't work here :p
17:33<valhallasw>oh my
17:34-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:34<TrueBrain>sorry :)
17:34<valhallasw>although not having flash could be considered a good thing
17:34<TrueBrain>for me it does
17:34<TrueBrain>lot of websites load MUCH faster :p
17:35<valhallasw>hehe
17:35-!-[com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:35<valhallasw>the disavantage, of course, is not being able to appreciate the awesomeness of some TED talks
17:36<TrueBrain>"Alle voordelen hebben nadelen"
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17:52<Zuu>A bit annoying that you need to "patch" flash to make it work good in a dual screen setup. Still not an option to leave out as it is required to watch web-TV on swedish television.
17:55<TrueBrain>sounds terrible :p
17:56<TrueBrain>hmm .. a 4:3 movie
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>wait, they don't require silverlight? :p
17:56<TrueBrain>that is a long time ago
17:56<Zuu>The other option is to skip web-tv and get a real TV and pay the TV-fee and stick to the time table.
17:57<TrueBrain>they really are that advanced over there? Impressive
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>or the other other option is to fuck them and get the torrents...
17:58-!-IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd
17:58<IPG>hi
17:58<TrueBrain>hello
17:58<Zuu>hello IPG
17:58<IPG>I'm here first time.
17:58<PeterT>welcome
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>don't worry, almost everyone here once was here the first time...
17:59<IPG>:)
18:00<TrueBrain>almost eveeryone
18:00-!-Chrill [~chrischri@h-16-169.A149.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
18:00<TrueBrain>I am still not sure about Eddi|zuHause
18:00<PeterT>IPG: You were on the IS2 server before?
18:00<TrueBrain>I think he was created with the channel
18:00<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: Who in here has not once been here before?
18:00<IPG>yes
18:00<PeterT>IPG: The IRC channel is #jonty
18:01<IPG>thanks
18:01<IPG>:)
18:02<TrueBrain>PeterT: stop stealing our users
18:02<PeterT>hehe
18:02<IPG>:)
18:03<Zuu>Can't you two share the users?
18:03<TrueBrain>NO
18:03<PeterT>Share?! With #openttd?!
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>"he will join us or die!"
18:05<IPG>yesterday I changed 51 strings in wt...
18:05<TrueBrain>whoho!
18:05<PeterT>Oh, that's where I know you from!
18:05<Zuu>Bravo!
18:05<PeterT>I looked on the forums but couldn't find an "IPG"
18:05<IPG>I'm Inga Papagaj on forum
18:06<IPG>Cause I registrated years ago
18:06<IPG>then, I was shortened to IPG
18:06<PeterT>Inga Parrot?
18:06<IPG>yes
18:06<IPG>Parrot is a type of lok in Hungary
18:06<IPG>V43-2xxx
18:07<IPG>and the Inga means there is a controller car on the other end of the train, so you shoudn't deattach the lok when you are at the head station :)
18:07<PeterT>IPG: There you are > http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/c5eb2f2baf19
18:07<IPG>yeha
18:08<IPG>I changed some words to get more specifical....
18:09<IPG>i think the words should be uniformal... so if we use a word to a thing, to the same thing use the same word, but an other thing use another
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18:14<PeterT>fonsinchen: What does the findstations patch do on your openttd.git repo?
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18:19<DJNekkid>dalestan: (or anyone else): Renum dont support Feature10 for action1 ... not hat it does for the others, but on this one it crashes
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18:20<fonsinchen>I think it's outdated
18:21<DJNekkid>outdated?
18:21<fonsinchen>The findstations patch petert is talking about
18:21<PeterT>What does it do?
18:21<PeterT>add a search to station window?
18:22<fonsinchen>it's an optimization for the tile loop that has already been accepted in trunk
18:22<DJNekkid>i use r2300 of it
18:22-!-PeterT_ [~chatzilla@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
18:22<DJNekkid>oh ... different discussion :P
18:22<PeterT>Oh
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18:37<Nite_Owl>Hello all
18:38<IPG>hi
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18:38<Nite_Owl>Hello IPG
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18:46<PeterT>so fonsinchen, is it hard to update past the introduciton of zoom?
18:46<PeterT>zoom for the minimap
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18:49<fonsinchen>I have an update ready. Just merging everything together right now.
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20:12-!-IPG is now known as IPG_slp
20:13<PeterT>Good night, IPG_slp
20:14<IPG_slp>thanks
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22:16-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
22:16-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
22:16-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
22:17-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.191.28] has joined #openttd
22:18<PeterT>Dumb services
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23:11<kd5pbo>Can a server join a company?
23:25-!-tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-95-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:27-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
23:50<welshdragon>kd5pbo: no
23:54<kd5pbo>welshdragon: Thanks.
---Logclosed Mon Feb 15 00:00:22 2010