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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-16

---Logopened Tue Feb 16 00:00:23 2010
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02:27-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttd +#openDune @+#openttdcoop #openttdcoop.devzone @#openttdcoop.bots @+#coopetition @+#wwottdgd
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02:43<Terkhen>good morning
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03:08<gr00vy>hi everybody
03:08<gr00vy>is there any easy way to do a conversion of electrified rail to maglev
03:09<gr00vy>including trains and depots?
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04:03<kd5pbo>gr00vy: Use the upgrade tool.
04:09<SirSquidness>kd5pbo: that will only upgrade the track/stations
04:09<SirSquidness>that wont auto-upgrade vehicles
04:09<SirSquidness>or depots with vehicles in them
04:09<kd5pbo>Oh, vehicles.
04:09<kd5pbo>Though, it will upgrade empty depots.
04:09<kd5pbo>My trick is to collect as many trains as I can into one depot.
04:10<SirSquidness>and then manually clone them in to the depot next to the one they'rei n
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05:40<TrueBrain>stupid winter olympics blabla swapswap ... no BigBang on TV :(
05:42<Noldo>the show with sheldon, penny and the other guy?
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05:45<TrueBrain>yes, which else?
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>"The Theorists" ;)
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>(in case you haven't heard, in Belarus they made a show with remarkable similarity to TBBT (similar names, similar intro, similar stories), but did not pay for a license)
05:50<Noldo>they are showing a russian version of the Nanny named Fran here
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05:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's fairly common that successful shows from other markets are altered for a localised adaption. but that usually involves buying the appropriate licenses
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05:53<Eddi|zuHause>although it's more common in germany to just buy the show itself and translate it into german
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>there are only a few adaptions that i know... for example "the office" was adapted as "Stromberg"... adaptions are usually from non-american tv markets
05:55<Uresu>Didn't the Germans remake "The Office", call it "Das Job" (or somethign) and pretend it wasn't a clonoe of The Office?
05:56<Uresu>And ended up admitting it when Gervais & Merchant came a-calling.
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>Uresu: do you have a source for that story?
05:57<Uresu>I remember then saying it on one of the recent Office documentaries on BBC called "A Night At the Office" (I think)
05:58<Uresu>There you go, 1st para
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06:03<Eddi|zuHause>" I can't go into details but yes there was an agreement reached and we are very happy with it. I must say I was very surprised when I saw the new unauthorised version. It's not like the Germans to just march in and take something that isn't theirs." <-- haha :p
06:04<Uresu>You know, no Englishman (seriously) thinks that.
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>we germans do (occasionally) understand irony ;)
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06:13<Eddi|zuHause>"Weitere autorisierte Adaptionen der britischen Serie entstanden in den USA (The Office), Frankreich (Le Bureau), Quebec (La Job), Russland, Chile und Israel."
06:14<Uresu>They are *very* rich
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06:30<fonsinchen>So Stallman is encouraging the use of DeCSS which is not clearly free software, tststs ...
06:32<fonsinchen>he could change that for libdvdcss, though. And then there'd be no reason for him to not use it either. Stallman is sort of crazy.
06:34<kd5pbo>Well, that's rather embarrassing.
06:34<kd5pbo>Time to change my password.
06:34<Noldo>you have the same all over don't you?
06:34<__ln__>broke up?
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06:35<kd5pbo>Noldo: Nah.
06:35<kd5pbo>__ln__: Nah, thought my screensaver would ask for it.
06:35<kd5pbo>I should have switched on my monitor first.
06:36<kd5pbo>There's some sort of bug in gscreensaver or whatever it is I have installed.
06:37<kd5pbo>Every so often I wondered if a password like that would be broken less quickly than a bunch of random numbers and letters and symbols.
06:37<Uresu>It would
06:37<kd5pbo>Uresu: Why?
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>alone for the length, that's a really unlikely-to-be-broken password...
06:37<kd5pbo>That's why I use it.
06:38<kd5pbo>Easy to remember and really long.
06:38<Uresu>Typically a dictionary attack would be tried first and all the words in your password are "dictionary" words (from a password cracking perspective anyway)
06:38<Uresu>Wait: More quickly.
06:38<Uresu>oops ;)
06:38<kd5pbo>Uresu: Yeah, but it'd require the concatenation of five words.
06:39<kd5pbo>Well, three plus is and the.
06:39<kd5pbo>At what point do you give up on a dictionary attack and start with random characters?
06:39<@SmatZ>you can type it backwards :)
06:39<Uresu>It's a good question, my gut says it would still be cracked quicker, but it would be an interesting project for a uni student.
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06:40<kd5pbo>Too bad I'm done.
06:40<@SmatZ>like, dneirflrigtsebehtsielocin
06:40<kd5pbo>Thank God I'm done.
06:40<@SmatZ>you're welcome
06:40<kd5pbo>SmatZ: Then I have to remember that.
06:40<@SmatZ>you get used to that :)
06:40<@SmatZ>hello Yexo
06:40<kd5pbo>Or, I change passwords all together.
06:40<Yexo>hello SmatZ
06:41<@SmatZ>hello roboboy
06:41<KenjiE20>SmatZ has a secret weapon for that :)
06:41<KenjiE20>or was that spike?
06:42<@SmatZ>I don't remember having any weapons
06:42<kd5pbo>KenjiE20: For what?
06:42<KenjiE20>then what's that you just hid?
06:42<KenjiE20>kd5pbo: try
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06:44<kd5pbo>I just remember them all.
06:45<kd5pbo>Why does only one menu item have a tooltip?
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07:14<roboboy>what time GMT are nightlies built?
07:14<gr00vy>thx @ SirSquidness and kd5pbo|Zzz
07:15<TrueBrain>roboboy: 20:00 CE(S)T
07:15<TrueBrain>in 6 hours and 45 minutes
07:15<@Rubidium>roboboy: TZ="CET-1CEST,M3.5.0,M10.5.0/3" 20:00
07:16<roboboy>so 7 am AEST
07:17<TrueBrain>if you say so
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>whatever it is, it's in 7 hours
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07:26<Eddi|zuHause>how the hell did that guy get a "160MB image" when compiling openttd?
07:26<@Rubidium>where? who?
07:26<Noldo>mac thread
07:27<@Rubidium>fat library, uncompressed, debug build
07:27<@Rubidium>s/fat library/universal binary/
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07:28<@Rubidium>one debug binary is 52 MiB for me, universal adds 3 giving 156 MiB
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07:29<Timmaexx>I have a suggestion! Would it be possible to add opntitle.dat to bananas?
07:29<Timmaexx>So you can choose multiple backgrounds?
07:29<@Rubidium>then add 6 MB for languages and title game, et voila 162 MiB
07:29<@Rubidium>would be possible, rather do not do it
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07:30<@Rubidium>cause you quickly end with: which of the 30 to take?
07:31<@Rubidium>and: here's mine, with AIs and NewGRFs
07:31<roboboy>OpenTTD should be able to load the original TTD title.dat but it can not
07:31<@Rubidium>and: here's mine, it's 8 MiB
07:31<Timmaexx>oops sorry capslock
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07:32<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: it might be necessary to convert the game first, as the file extension is relevant to the way the game is loaded
07:32<@Rubidium>roboboy: technically it probably can, but as Eddi said... the extension is relevant
07:33<@Rubidium>Timmaexx: it's not what YOU do, but what the unknowing does... like trying to load all 100+ NewGRFs into a single game
07:33<@Rubidium>or uploading cargodist savegames
07:34<roboboy>I know that as TTD's title.dat is just a sv0 renamed to .dat
07:34<@Rubidium>roboboy: with .sv0 it assumes it a TTD savegame, with .dat/.sav it assumes it's an OpenTTD savegame
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07:35<@Rubidium>now given that someone 'borked' the savegame format long ago, it's not that easy to detect TTD vs old OTTD savegames
07:35<roboboy>and Assumes is the key word
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07:37<@Rubidium>well, show me an ingenious way that assures that it won't misdetect and I'll look at it
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07:41<@Rubidium>and... in the beginning of OpenTTD savegames there was no "header", so missing the header doesn't mean it's a TTD savegame
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08:42<roboboy>are there any major differences in compiling OpenTTD unders MSVC++2008 Professional than Express
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08:43<Eddi|zuHause>there shouldn't be... but with microsoft, you never know...
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09:02<+glx>Pro supports 64bit out of the box
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09:03<+glx>(express supports 64bit too, but it requires user intervention to set it up)
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09:08<roboboy>Does the OpenTTD project have config details for 64bit builds?
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09:10<+glx>projects are ready for 32 and 64
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09:11<+glx>express needs
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09:29<nicfer>I have a multiple ottd setup under windows xp and want to know if there's a way to share the grf files between them, having each one an own cfg file
09:29<Ammler>nicfer: RTFM
09:29<+glx>put grfs in mydocs/openttd/data, and a config in each ottd dir
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09:31<Ammler>was there ever a FR to be able to have a generic cfg, which then can be overruled by a kind of local cfg?
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>what's an "FR"?
09:33<Ammler>feature request
09:35<nicfer>(to glx) I can't do that because the cfg file in each installation makes the game for ignore mydoc
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09:36<+glx>only for cfg
09:36<+glx>it still searches for grf there
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>but it will download online content into the individual data dirs...
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09:48<@Rubidium>roboboy: where's the source for the binary you posted on the forum? It's definitely not a stock version if desyncs are disabled. Anyhow, WHY did you disable desyncs?
09:50<roboboy>can I just post a link to the diff I used?
09:50<@Belugas>desyncs are boring, they stop the fun of the game. it's an evil thing done by devs
09:51<roboboy>is that sufficient for GPL?
09:52<roboboy>providing a link to the diff?
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09:53<@Rubidium>technically probably not, but it's common practice and it's at least a million times better than no source and for seeing what you changed it's also better than providing the full source
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09:54<@Rubidium>nevertheless, it doesn't make much sense to disable desyncs
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10:00<@Rubidium>roboboy: #openttdcoop is running that?
10:00<@Rubidium>as server that is
10:02<@Rubidium>have they hit a new all-time-low in doing stupid things?
10:02<roboboy>the bundle/build will not be needed after the next nightly comes out
10:03<@Rubidium>yeah, but now half will desync and the other half won't
10:04<@Rubidium>then at least call it r19068M or so
10:04<@Rubidium>makes the 'suckers' with the wrong binary fail to connect
10:04<@Rubidium>but no, we're going to use an incompatible version and give it the same version number...
10:04<roboboy>so rename the bundle but not recompile the binary?
10:05<@Rubidium>according to they're running an unmodified version, if that's not the case it should say r19068M as version number... not claim it's unmodified. That's just incredibly stupid
10:08<roboboy>theyve hacked which is definately stupid
10:08<planetmaker>:S Someone provided a IMO BAD diff which supposed was meant to "work around" the desync. Why ever.
10:09<planetmaker>I don't know what the binary has we currently run.
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10:20<Ammler>the "Someone" was me
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10:20<Ammler>we tried, if it works
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10:21<Ammler>roboboy: might be better you remove the binary there.
10:22<Ammler>Rubidium: we run a patched server for quite a long time already.
10:22<Ammler>since dih run his autonightly
10:22<@Rubidium>Ammler: and in it you're modifying how the @#$%@#$%@#$ pathfinder works?
10:24<Ammler>someone had the idea, that backport the fix might work, also for unpatched clients.
10:24<@Rubidium>if you change it so the server dumps a bit more information to the console... that's fine, but modifying the game engine's logic, that's bad... very bad
10:25-!-mode/#openttd [+b someone!*@*] by Rubidium
10:25<Ammler>yeah, it seems also very lagging now
10:25<Ammler>dunno, if that is caused by the backport :-)
10:25<roboboy>I will remove the patch when I get up in the morning
10:25<Markk>welshdragon: Is your name Mark MacDowelle?
10:26<@Rubidium>Ammler: might be... the pathfinder caching is disabled when going to a multi-tile waypoint
10:26<Ammler>Rubidium: so it will also lag after we use again a regular nightly?
10:27<welshdragon> Markk nope
10:27<@Rubidium>unless you come up with a better fix
10:27<Markk>welshdragon: Mkay. :)
10:27<Markk>My first nick was MarkMc. :)
10:27<Markk>(från Mark McDowelle)
10:27<Ammler>what is the diff to a "via station"?
10:28<@Rubidium>stations are safe waiting points
10:28<Ammler>we have already too many trains to change the orders, else we could try it :-)
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10:33<@Belugas>we have lost our dns server
10:33<@Belugas>anyone can verify what is the exact definition of CVV2, regarding credit card number? would be nice
10:36<@Belugas>our dns service does not work, SirSquidness. But thanks for the effort
10:36<@Belugas>IP addresses work, not "named" IP
10:37<SirSquidness>oh, sorry
10:37<SirSquidness>I thought you meant OpenTTDs DNS server was down or something
10:37<SirSquidness>It's the extra number on most credit cards
10:38<SirSquidness>that you enter as a 'security measure'
10:38<SirSquidness>The Card Security Code (CSC), sometimes called Card Verification Value (CVV or CV2), Card Verification Value Code (CVVC), Card Verification Code (CVC), Verification Code (V-Code or V Code), or Card Code Verification (CCV)[1] is a security feature for credit or debit card transactions, giving increased protection against credit card fraud.
10:38<Ammler>SirSquidness: pm it :-)
10:38<SirSquidness>If you need an alternate DNS server, and
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: use an external nameserver? like or
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10:50<@Belugas>thanks SirSquidness, that's perfect
10:50<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, i'll try something like that. dunno if it would fit our "corporate" network...
10:52<SirSquidness>surely if you're on a corporate network, your IT admins would have redundant DNS servers?
10:52<SirSquidness>'cos.. you know... not having a DNS server sort of prevents a lot of stuff happening, especially if you're on an Activedirectory network...
10:54<@Belugas>works, Eddi|zuHause. milles fois merci!
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>as long as you don't start to kiss me...
10:57*dihedral has a powerbook he does not use anymore....
10:59<@Belugas>our IT admin???? buwhahahahah!!!!!
11:00<dihedral>SirSquidness, you gotta be joking
11:00<dihedral>some admins dont even have a secondary domain controller
11:01<dihedral>well... windows admins :-P
11:01<dihedral>but if you are surprised by that, ask if their server has some sort of RAID configured :-P
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11:05*jonty-comp doesn't have a secondary domain controller, or a redundant DNS, or RAID on his workplace's server
11:06<jonty-comp>but then I don't even know why we have a domain in the first place, Small Business Server is completely useless
11:06<jonty-comp>if it wasn't already there when I started working there, I'd have got a nice linux server for serving files, and e-mails
11:08<SirSquidness>dihedral: sorry, I like to live in an imaginary world where everyone does things the smart way, not the cheap way
11:09<dihedral>i am the only linux admin at work, and i get the cache to setup stuff my way :-)
11:10<SirSquidness>how many windows admins do you have to argue with?
11:13<TrueBrain>cache or cash? :p
11:13<@Belugas>crache le cash!
11:13<dihedral>cash :-P
11:14<SirSquidness>lol, that makes more sense
11:16<dihedral>still nice though
11:18<dihedral>who wants a 75 eur voucher for google adwords?
11:19<dihedral>(after the 28th it's only 50 eur)
11:19<SirSquidness>donate it to openttd!
11:19<dihedral>if they want it!!
11:19<dihedral>TrueBrain, Rubidium?
11:19<dihedral>feel like having a 75 eur google adwords voucher?
11:20<TrueBrain>those are only valid after you pay Google 50 euro to activate it
11:20<SirSquidness>typical -_-
11:22<dihedral>nope, you need to pay 5 eur exc. vat
11:22<dihedral>and it only works with new accounts
11:22<dihedral>(new = younger than 14 days)
11:23<TrueBrain>then you think you get things for free
11:23<TrueBrain>tss, it is Google, of course not
11:24<dihedral>perhaps someone wants it... i know i dont
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11:49<TrueBrain> <- briliant!
11:52<jonty-comp>< dihedral> who wants a 75 eur voucher for google adwords? <-- we have one of those at work!
11:53<jonty-comp>TrueBrain: awesome :D
11:54<jonty-comp>wish cooking was as easy as photoshop :P
11:54<jonty-comp>or perhaps the other way around
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19145 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt galician.txt slovak.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: galician - 25 changes by Drenghist
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovak - 4 changes by keso53
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14:00<@peter1138>heh, people seem to expect nforenum to magically understand new stuff
14:00<@Rubidium>peter1138: well, I'd expect it to not crash horribly on 'wrong-to-nforenum' data :)
14:01<@peter1138>probably just an assert ;)
14:03<Terkhen>OpenTTD 2.0!
14:05<TrueBrain>wow, I feel like Futurama .. skipped 1000 years :p
14:07<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yeah, in 2020 maybe :)
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14:09<TrueBrain>would be cool, to just skip 1.0 :p
14:09<TrueBrain>that would annoy a lot of people
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14:11<Prof_Frink>OpenTTD 0.A.0!
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14:22<Wolf01>hello :o
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14:25<__ln__>wolf! wolf!
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15:30<kd5pbo>How do I see net_fram_freq's value?
15:30-!-pw-- [~w00f@] has quit [Quit: cocks]
15:30<kd5pbo>I seem to get a lot of errors because of it.
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15:32<Alberth>iirc there is a command to display vars in the console. does 'help' say anything useful?
15:33<kd5pbo>list_vars, but that only gives me two vars
15:33<@peter1138>23329 petern 20 0 2198m 1.5g 8616 D 81 77.0 12:11.42 firefox-bin
15:33<@peter1138>good ol' firefox
15:33<Alberth>in only 12 mintues :)
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15:35<kd5pbo>Alberth: Time to switch browsers.
15:36<@peter1138>1.6g now
15:36<Alberth>nah, it will hit the process upper limit all by itself
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15:38<aber>ahh, thats the point they do not supply 64bit firefox binaries.
15:39<aber>mozilla foundation?
15:40<kd5pbo>aber: Do you have a 64bit processor?
15:41<kd5pbo>Why not build a 64-bit version and see if it works better.
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15:44<frosch123>maybe they use lots of [(uint32)-1] to access the previous element in an array
15:44<kd5pbo>frosch123: Can you even do that in C?
15:44<kd5pbo>Wouldn't that just access the memory before the array?
15:45<Alberth>not if you have a pointer pointing to the end
15:45<frosch123>int a[5]; int *b = a + 1; assert(b[-1] == a[0]);
15:46<kd5pbo>What's assert?
15:46<frosch123>now replace the -1 with an uint, an it will magically work on 32bit
15:46<frosch123>#define assert(cond) {if (!(cond)) burp();}
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>why did that make me burp?
15:48<aber>maybe !cond ?
15:48<kd5pbo>aber: Shouldn't matter.
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15:50<aber>Eddi is compiled without -ea ?
15:50<@Rubidium>rather with -ea (enable asplodes)
16:00<+andythenorth>hi hi
16:03*andythenorth deletes a draft forum post
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16:03<frosch123>what did you suggest? :)
16:03<@Rubidium>full TTDP 2.0 compatability! :)
16:04<frosch123>"you have to post all your personal details to to acquire your personal key for ottd, and you have to send all your keystrokes, passwords and data to"
16:04<frosch123>oh, wait that was web 2.0, right?
16:05<frosch123>Rubidium: that is not very future proof, what to do in ottd 3.0 ?
16:07<@Rubidium>full TTDP 3.0 support ofcourse
16:07<@Rubidium>i.e. no 3.0 before TTDP 3.0!
16:07<+andythenorth>frosch123: my suggestion for 2.0: "ship working code"
16:07<+andythenorth>I know, I know, it's a big ask :)
16:07<frosch123>what is ship working?
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16:08<+andythenorth>ahem, try reading that again?
16:08<frosch123>oh, "ship" is also a verb, right?
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>kd5pbo: it's either a command or a setting, not a variable
16:08<+andythenorth>every other version of OpenTTD appears to work, so I think 2.0 should continue that nice pattern
16:08<+andythenorth>working code is a top feature in my view
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>(the net_frame_freq)
16:09<@SmatZ>[22:04:08] <pcmattman> I'd have banned yorick if I had his mask
16:09<@SmatZ>[22:06:07] *** pcmattman nastavuje režim: +b *!*yorick@*
16:09<frosch123>my suggestion: "make andy support macos port"
16:09*andythenorth may have dry humour
16:09<@SmatZ>everyone loves yorick :)
16:09<+andythenorth>and no to the mac os port
16:10<+andythenorth>so these forums....I just post a suggestion, and then you guys magically implement it right? So I can have anything I like in 2.0?
16:10<@SmatZ>andythenorth: yes, that's exactly how it works
16:10<+andythenorth>oh good
16:11<@SmatZ>too bad it's too late to have everything implemented in 1.0
16:11<Sionide>as long as you help with bug testing/triaging andythenorth
16:11<+andythenorth>in that case, I WANT UNDERGROUND RAILWAYS!
16:11<+andythenorth>never mind that you can't bloody see them :o
16:11<@SmatZ>andythenorth: whan an original idea!!!!!1111oneoneone
16:12*andythenorth lulz
16:12<@Rubidium>andythenorth: so how do you know they aren't there, but serviced by another company?
16:12<+andythenorth>dunno, why don't we just implement some code that just moves all the cargo around the map automatically? No routes required.
16:12<frosch123>hmm, underground railways... that would need backporting of quite some revisions from 2.0 branch to trunk
16:12<+andythenorth>kind of 'underground'
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>teleportation railtype
16:13*andythenorth decides to stop twatting around and go eat
16:13<frosch123>andythenorth: actually heisenberg rail is already part of 1.0
16:13<Sionide>what's all this talk of 1.0 ??
16:13<+andythenorth>can we measure a piece of cargo in one place and have it manifest somewhere else
16:15<frosch123>well, when i was young there was always the discussion, how you could turn the game money into real money. since i transport tons of candy and toffee in toyland that changed somewhat
16:15<Sionide>frosch123, branson did it.. I bet he played TTO as a teen.
16:15*andythenorth awards himself today's beer
16:16<@Rubidium>Sionide: I bet he didn't
16:17<@Rubidium>but then, my math may be broken
16:17<@Rubidium>assuming 1950+20 < 1994
16:17<dihedral> <- hehehe "our new goal" :-D
16:18<frosch123>anyway, did someone ask branson whether he would brefer 2000 bags of sweets per month?
16:18*andythenorth goes off to model some bulldozers in 3D
16:18*andythenorth gets bored and comes back
16:19<Sionide>frosch123, someone's gotta haul the sweets around..
16:19<frosch123>dihedral: someone registered to post that...
16:21<aber>not 3D, but
16:24<Alberth>now if only everything looked the same from every direction...
16:24<dihedral>hehe - someone claims all sprites exist in 4 directions already ....
16:25<frosch123>rotation in steps of 90 degree is quite easy if you choose the right axis
16:26<dihedral>rotation in 360 degree steps is even easier :-P
16:26*andythenorth turns his laptop upside down for rotation of 180
16:26<Sionide>a lot of the later tycoon/theme games have 4 point rotation..
16:26*andythenorth hmmm....the podcast skipped
16:26<@Rubidium>frosch123: the 't' axis?
16:26<Sionide>is ttdpatch still going??
16:27<frosch123>the axis of evil?
16:27<Sionide>:S just wondered..
16:27<Terkhen>why stop at that? go for free view camera
16:27<@Rubidium>frosch123: nah, time :)
16:28<Alberth>Rubidium: only in positive direction :)
16:28<dihedral>Terkhen, if you create the amount of sprites RCT had
16:28<Sionide>ohh that'd be good, a rewind time button so you can watch a crash, rewind it and prevent it...??
16:29<Alberth>RCT only had 4 directions
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16:29<Terkhen>but they are already done, right? :P
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16:29<frosch123>dihedral: every monkey gets a 3d impression from just two pictures
16:29<Alberth>Sionide: we already have that feature, it's called autosave
16:30<+andythenorth>Terkhen: I *always* draw many more angles than the game can's fun :)
16:30<Sionide>Alberth, not quite the same..
16:30<Alberth>Terkhen: yep, they were generated with a renderer, I think
16:30<frosch123>Sionide: you mean a "undo knob" ?
16:30<Alberth>(before hand)
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16:30<Sionide>kind of
16:31<aber>rendering, we need to implement ray tracing...
16:31-!-Combuster [] has joined #openttd
16:31<+andythenorth>can we also implement a first person shooter in the game?
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16:31<Alberth>aber: why, how does that transport cargo?
16:31<Alberth>andythenorth: Doomed OpenTTD
16:32<frosch123>andythenorth: magic bulldozer?
16:32<Alberth>yeah, "Magic bulldozer runaway, causing havoc over the land" news
16:33<Terkhen>I didn't know, I was just kidding :P
16:33<TrueBrain>hmm .. more disasters ....
16:33<Alberth>Terkhen: that's when you get the best insane ideas :p
16:33<Sionide>more work on new industries would be good.. new stuff to transport, post 1.0 release..
16:33*andythenorth waves his hand
16:34*Alberth points at andythenorth
16:34*andythenorth points at Yexo's industry patch
16:34*TrueBrain slaps andythenorth for pointing
16:34<+andythenorth>Alberth started it
16:35*TrueBrain puts andythenorth in the corner for telling
16:35<Yexo>and wrong telling even
16:35*andythenorth eats dinner and drinks a beer
16:35<TrueBrain>hmm .. beer ....
16:35<Sionide>but that's an optional patch right?? not in trunk?
16:35<Yexo>currently not
16:35<TrueBrain>slapping andythenorth? That is always optinal :)
16:36<+andythenorth>the patch to slap me definitely doesn't compile on mac
16:36<TrueBrain>I do need to fix that
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16:38<dihedral>frosch123> Sionide: you mean a "undo knob" ? <- LOL
16:38<dihedral><andythenorth> OpenTTDoom <- OpenTTDNukem
16:38<jonty-comp>openttd should have a bonus level like theme hospital
16:38<jonty-comp>where you shotgun all the rats
16:38<TrueBrain>wasnt someone working on that?
16:38<Sionide>they are..
16:38<jonty-comp>well, that already exists
16:39<Sionide>they have a playable beta out..
16:39<kd5pbo>What's Therme hospital?
16:39<FauxFaux>It still works in dosbox.
16:39<IPG>re all!
16:39<FauxFaux>We played it at a recent LAN.
16:39<TrueBrain>of course it works in DOSBox
16:39<Sionide>kd5pbo, take a guess..
16:39<TrueBrain>why wouldn't it?
16:39<TrueBrain>TT work sin DOSBox too
16:39<kd5pbo>Well, I know what a hospital is.
16:39<kd5pbo>I'm still trying to figure out what a therme is.
16:39<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: OpenTTD even work(s|ed) in DOSbox
16:40<Sionide>kd5pbo, okay so... extrapolate from that.. what other "Theme" games do we know? Theme Park etc.
16:40<jonty-comp>kd5pbo: try removing the r
16:40<kd5pbo>Not therme.
16:40<jonty-comp>darn, beaten to it
16:40<kd5pbo>So, a hospital where I can get treated on a roller coaster?
16:40*jonty-comp spirals into depression
16:40<TrueBrain>pretty active
16:40*KenjiE20 makes jonty take off his elvis constume
16:40<Sionide>kd5pbo, there are no roller coasters.. just different treatment rooms and doctors and nurses..
16:40<KenjiE20>all better!
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16:41<Sionide>jonty-comp, if openttd had a bonus level such as you describe, what would it be?
16:41<Sionide>jonty-comp, shoot the UFOs???
16:41<TrueBrain>300 revisions in 2 months ... not bad, for a game like OpenTH :p
16:41<jonty-comp>something like that
16:42<Sionide>TH is a cult classic
16:42<Sionide>if you ever played the original, whether it be on PC or playstation... it's just a classic!!
16:42<TrueBrain>like TTD
16:42<TrueBrain>or Dune2
16:42<KenjiE20>or SimTower
16:43<TrueBrain>sim what?
16:43<@Rubidium>simtower... with santa claus! :)
16:43<@Rubidium>don't forget SimFarm :)
16:43<jonty-comp>I found out the other day I could play Jazz Jackrabbit in DOSBox on my PDA
16:43<Sionide>SimTower, yeah or one better.. SIM ANT!
16:43<aber>they can research new illnesses, oO
16:43<KenjiE20>heh simant
16:43<jonty-comp>unfortunately it's not fast enough for anything else :(
16:43<Terkhen>I loved SimEarth
16:43<IPG>does anyone know SimSig?!?
16:43<KenjiE20>I was considering opensimant
16:43<@Rubidium>IPG: I do
16:43<KenjiE20>then I realised simant still owkrs fine
16:43<jonty-comp>oh, it can play Sim(Ant|Earth) in the SNES emulator
16:44<KenjiE20>IPG: #simsig
16:44<IPG>omg! thx
16:44<Sionide>I think I'm going to have to investigate this DOSBox
16:44<Sionide>anybody ever play Hocus Pocus???
16:44<TrueBrain>I can convert old 16bit DOS application to C code! WHOHO! :)
16:44<jonty-comp>I have SimFarm somewhere in my cupboard
16:44<KenjiE20>anyone remember Afterlife?
16:44<KenjiE20>no? thought not
16:45<jonty-comp>TrueBrain: good, there's a long list to convert! :D
16:45<@Rubidium>KenjiE20: no, I'm not dead yet (I think)
16:45<kd5pbo>KenjiE20: Actually, sounds familliar.
16:45<kd5pbo>What was/is it?
16:45-!-Wizzleby [] has joined #openttd
16:45<KenjiE20>pretty much what it says in the title
16:45<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: openDUNE is the first :p
16:45<jonty-comp>I also remember having Flight Simulator 3 on a floppy disk
16:45<jonty-comp>and now I have FS2004 on five CDs :s
16:45<+glx><TrueBrain> I can convert old 16bit DOS application to C code! WHOHO! :) <-- with MIDI sound ;)
16:46<TrueBrain>MPU support, yes, tnx to glx :p
16:48<+glx>jonty-comp: high quality textures and sound ;)
16:48<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: even OpenTTD no longer fits on a floppydisk
16:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: did TTD?
16:48<KenjiE20>was about to say...
16:49<TrueBrain>at least the executable :p
16:49<KenjiE20>I remember TTO disks, but not TTDLX
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16:49<Terkhen>NewGRF disasters... I created a few while trying to understand callbacks
16:50<IPG>does anyone know what is the timeout at a server when your account goes to negative to let other people to take over your company?
16:50<TrueBrain>easy to make a disaster out of NewGRFs :p
16:50<IPG>at multiplayer
16:50<@Rubidium>IPG: ~1 year IIRC
16:51<kd5pbo>IPG: It's something a server can change, though.
16:52<planetmaker>IPG: IIRC you get three warnings at the 1st of the quarter and if you're still at a negative balance at the 4th you get bancrupted
16:52<planetmaker>and good evening everyone :-)
16:52<TrueBrain>howdie planetmaker
16:52*KenjiE20 runs for the hills
16:52<IPG>thanks for all :)
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>TTO was on 2 floppy disks (installable)
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>and OpenTTD perfectly fits on a 100MB Zip disk ;)
16:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: not with all the BaNaNaS content :p (275 MiB)
16:55*Alberth uses just 10 letters to get OpenTTD :p
16:55-!-Grelouk [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:55*planetmaker updates to the server's version just by means of "./start ps" ;-)
16:56<planetmaker>which is incidentially also 10 letters :-)
16:56<TrueBrain>makes his system unusable by just 7 chars: rm -rf / :p
16:56<planetmaker>hehe :-P
16:56<TrueBrain>I don't see the point in this game
16:56<planetmaker>TrueBrain: you forgot one prerequisite, though
16:57<planetmaker>I would only screw my data - usually :-P
16:57<TrueBrain>I was talking about my system .. hence the 'his system'
16:58<planetmaker>well, yes. But you're surely not always loged in as root?
16:58-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...]
16:58<TrueBrain>I didn't say under which conditions
16:58<TrueBrain>same for you: you aren't always in the right dir, are you?
16:58<jonty-comp>that and most sane distros don't let you carelessly rm -rf / anymore
16:58<planetmaker>hence "...forgot prerequisite..." ;-)
16:58<jonty-comp>damn these "are you sure?" messages!
16:58<planetmaker>hehe. also true ;-)
16:59<TrueBrain>but you said: _you_ forgot
16:59<TrueBrain>but it is _we_ forgot
16:59*planetmaker hugs TrueBrain
16:59<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: mine does .. Gentoo for the win :)
16:59*TrueBrain hugs planetmaker
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17:00<@peter1138>gentoo is not sane...
17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19146 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use CommandCost in industry checking routines.
17:01<TrueBrain>depends on the user
17:02<@Rubidium>the user running x86_64 wanting a stable OpenTTD?
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17:03<kd5pbo>Gentoo is perfectly sane.
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17:04<+andythenorth>I had an idea, so you guys will code it right :P
17:04<Lippern>hi. I have problems using OpenTTd multiplayer over internet. can anyone help me?
17:04<+andythenorth>idea above could be 'new in 2.0'
17:04<Lippern>hi. I have problems using OpenTTd multiplayer over internet. can anyone help me Please?
17:06<@Rubidium>Lippern: can you be more elaborate about the problems?
17:07<Lippern>ok, I want to start a server so I can play with my friends. but they cant find me on their lists, its over internet not LAN
17:07<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
17:08<planetmaker>^ Lippern open those ports in all firewalls and routers
17:08<planetmaker>well. mostly the server firewall and router
17:09<Lippern>ok, ill try
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause>surely, the emergency number should be '112'
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17:14<Lippern>ok, I went into my router adress and went on the firewall and DMZ on advanced, but they ask for a destination connection?
17:16<aber>DMZ is probably not the right place. In my opinion this is a special port and your computer is not connected to this port.
17:17<aber>You need to forward this ports, to your IP Adress.
17:17<Lippern>ok, how do i do that?
17:17<aber>depends on your Router.
17:18<planetmaker>your Router's manual should help you
17:18<Lippern>hehe, thanx
17:18<Lippern>i think i found it
17:18<Lippern>im a bad manual reader
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17:26<__ln__>'night, Wolf01
17:29<kd5pbo>What can cause a city's population to shrink?
17:30<planetmaker>people moving to other towns :-D
17:30<__ln__>a border opening to west
17:31<planetmaker>city population fluctuates. It can go up or down, if houses get replaced
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>birth rate falling below death rate
17:31<TrueBrain>people getting murdered more than people can fuck new ones
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>in case of openttd, the "birth rate" is controlled by the number of stations, while the "death rate" is dependent on the number of houses
17:31<TrueBrain>9 month delivery time is a bitch
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>so each town stagnates somewhere
17:32<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure there's a hard limit in OpenTTD.
17:32<kd5pbo>Oh, good to know.
17:32<planetmaker>Except the map size of 2048^2
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>there's not a hard limit, but a dynamic limit...
17:32<kd5pbo>More houses mean a higher death rate or a lower death rate?
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>a dynamic balance
17:33<planetmaker>Well... not really. If it can grow it will continue to grow.
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17:33<kd5pbo>There's plenty of room.
17:33<planetmaker>Just the percentage growth won't stay the same
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>you can expand a city to 300.000 in the scenario editor
17:34<kd5pbo>I left my city when I went to bed and half of my population left in the middle of the night.
17:34<planetmaker>We've built 1.5M cities ingame
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17:34<Eddi|zuHause>but once you start playing the game, and cannot manually adjust size, it will drop
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>to something around 100.000
17:34<planetmaker>so 100000 is not the max town size, by far
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>it depends...
17:35<kd5pbo>Eddi|zuHause: I was at 120k last night.
17:35<Pod>What grfs do you guys play with?
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>house sets might increase the number of inhabitants
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>then of course towns can get bigger
17:36<kd5pbo>Pod: eGVRTS.
17:36<Pod>do you play with just that?
17:36<Pod>I have that and have played with it, but in conjunction with UKRS
17:36<kd5pbo>What's that?
17:36<Pod>UK revival <set?>
17:37<Pod>I just wanna know a good "combo" set, if that makes sense? :P
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the calculation is simple. each tick, a town has an x% chance to grow a house. each existing house has a y% chance to close in a given tick
17:37<Pod>like, I don't want one thing changing the values/prices massively, but another grd not doing so
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>so when x = n*y, the growth and shrinking rates are balanced
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>where n is the number of houses
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17:39<planetmaker> <-- still. There's 2 million inhabitants in one of three towns.
17:39<planetmaker>are you sure that it's not "replace house" instead of "close house" actually, Eddi|zuHause ?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, those are separate things
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>and TTRS might contain very high density houses, that the standard set does not
17:41<planetmaker>might be that those games are with TTRS. Actually it's likely
17:42<planetmaker>another game was like 4 x <~ 1 million. Can be fun actually ;-)
17:42<planetmaker>Bad thing is that the ICE stations have no chance to get a good rating.
17:42<planetmaker>The PAX turn-over is so high that there's too often too much waiting
17:43<planetmaker>even if it's transported away in the next second by the next TGV or ICE
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>why would they need a good rating?
17:55<planetmaker>well, they don't *need* it. But too many bad stations make the local authority quite unhappy
17:56<planetmaker>Thus it inhibits further development of public transport within that city very much
17:56<planetmaker>and that easily happens within large cities
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17:57<planetmaker>Especially the s-bahn stations near the center are also very crowded and through-put is also high. Thus their rating is also bad, even despite good vehicle coverage
17:57<planetmaker>but yeah.
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18:01<kd5pbo>planetmaker: What's s-bahn?
18:02<planetmaker>inner-city rail. metropolitan rail
18:02<planetmaker>whatever fits ;-)
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18:03<planetmaker>in a certain way also trams would or could qualify
18:06<planetmaker>hm... I just got a 'connection lost' message from the server when I quit my client normally.
18:06<planetmaker>Is that ok?
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i thought that was supposed to be fixed?
18:07<planetmaker>well. r19145 is what I just used
18:07<planetmaker>I *thought* so, too, though
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18:08<planetmaker>leaving normally = ctrl+q: want to leave OpenTTD? -> Yes
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18:17<Terkhen>good night
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18:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's after midnight, so technically it is morning
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18:26<Fast2>Eddi|zuHause: His local time is half past ten in the morning ;)
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>australians are weird, they really have everything upside down... gravity points upwards, days are at night, summers are in winter
18:30<__ln__>freedom of speech is censorship
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18:31<Eddi|zuHause>mammals carry their children on the outside
18:33<Hirundo>War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength
18:33<__ln__>kangaroos are spotted much more frequently than in austria
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>i never spotted a kangaroo in either austria nor australia
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... nick colours are dangerous...
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>i constantly mix up people...
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's bad enough if you mix uo Hirundo or Terkhen with Rubidium
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>but mixing up planetmaker and TrueBrain may be lethal...
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18:45<planetmaker>good night for now, though
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19:17<@SmatZ>1 US fluid ounce = 1.040842731 imperial fluid ounces
19:17<@SmatZ>it's even more complicated than I thought...
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23:35<kd5pbo>SmatZ: IT means if you ask for 16oz ( a pint ) of beer in the US, you get more beer.
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 17 00:00:12 2010