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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-16

---Logopened Tue Feb 16 00:00:23 2010
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02:27-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttd +#openDune @+#openttdcoop #openttdcoop.devzone @#openttdcoop.bots @+#coopetition @+#openttdcoop.dev @+#wwottdgd
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02:43<Terkhen>good morning
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03:08<gr00vy>hi everybody
03:08<gr00vy>is there any easy way to do a conversion of electrified rail to maglev
03:09<gr00vy>including trains and depots?
03:12<Noldo>no
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04:03<kd5pbo>gr00vy: Use the upgrade tool.
04:09<SirSquidness>kd5pbo: that will only upgrade the track/stations
04:09<SirSquidness>that wont auto-upgrade vehicles
04:09<SirSquidness>or depots with vehicles in them
04:09<kd5pbo>Oh, vehicles.
04:09<kd5pbo>Yeah.
04:09<kd5pbo>Though, it will upgrade empty depots.
04:09<kd5pbo>My trick is to collect as many trains as I can into one depot.
04:10<SirSquidness>yes
04:10<SirSquidness>and then manually clone them in to the depot next to the one they'rei n
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05:40<TrueBrain>stupid winter olympics blabla swapswap ... no BigBang on TV :(
05:42<Noldo>the show with sheldon, penny and the other guy?
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05:45<TrueBrain>yes, which else?
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>"The Theorists" ;)
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>(in case you haven't heard, in Belarus they made a show with remarkable similarity to TBBT (similar names, similar intro, similar stories), but did not pay for a license)
05:50<Noldo>they are showing a russian version of the Nanny named Fran here
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05:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, it's fairly common that successful shows from other markets are altered for a localised adaption. but that usually involves buying the appropriate licenses
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05:53<Eddi|zuHause>although it's more common in germany to just buy the show itself and translate it into german
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>there are only a few adaptions that i know... for example "the office" was adapted as "Stromberg"... adaptions are usually from non-american tv markets
05:55<Uresu>Didn't the Germans remake "The Office", call it "Das Job" (or somethign) and pretend it wasn't a clonoe of The Office?
05:56<Uresu>And ended up admitting it when Gervais & Merchant came a-calling.
05:57<Eddi|zuHause>Uresu: do you have a source for that story?
05:57<Uresu>I remember then saying it on one of the recent Office documentaries on BBC called "A Night At the Office" (I think)
05:58<Uresu>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stromberg_%28TV_series%29
05:58<Uresu>There you go, 1st para
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06:03<Eddi|zuHause>" I can't go into details but yes there was an agreement reached and we are very happy with it. I must say I was very surprised when I saw the new unauthorised version. It's not like the Germans to just march in and take something that isn't theirs." <-- haha :p
06:03<Uresu>Hahaha
06:04<Uresu>You know, no Englishman (seriously) thinks that.
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>we germans do (occasionally) understand irony ;)
06:07<Uresu>;)
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06:13<Eddi|zuHause>"Weitere autorisierte Adaptionen der britischen Serie entstanden in den USA (The Office), Frankreich (Le Bureau), Quebec (La Job), Russland, Chile und Israel."
06:14<Uresu>They are *very* rich
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06:18<__ln__>http://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html
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06:30<fonsinchen>So Stallman is encouraging the use of DeCSS which is not clearly free software, tststs ...
06:32<fonsinchen>he could change that for libdvdcss, though. And then there'd be no reason for him to not use it either. Stallman is sort of crazy.
06:33<kd5pbo>nicoleisthebestgirlfriend
06:34<Noldo>ok
06:34<kd5pbo>Well, that's rather embarrassing.
06:34<kd5pbo>Time to change my password.
06:34<Noldo>you have the same all over don't you?
06:34<__ln__>broke up?
06:34<Noldo>:D
06:34-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@62.82.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd
06:35<kd5pbo>Noldo: Nah.
06:35<kd5pbo>__ln__: Nah, thought my screensaver would ask for it.
06:35<kd5pbo>I should have switched on my monitor first.
06:35<planetmaker>lol
06:35<@SmatZ>:D
06:36<kd5pbo>There's some sort of bug in gscreensaver or whatever it is I have installed.
06:37<kd5pbo>Every so often I wondered if a password like that would be broken less quickly than a bunch of random numbers and letters and symbols.
06:37<Uresu>It would
06:37<kd5pbo>Uresu: Why?
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>alone for the length, that's a really unlikely-to-be-broken password...
06:37<kd5pbo>That's why I use it.
06:38<kd5pbo>Easy to remember and really long.
06:38<kd5pbo>used*
06:38<Uresu>Typically a dictionary attack would be tried first and all the words in your password are "dictionary" words (from a password cracking perspective anyway)
06:38<Uresu>Wait: More quickly.
06:38<Uresu>oops ;)
06:38<kd5pbo>Uresu: Yeah, but it'd require the concatenation of five words.
06:39<kd5pbo>Well, three plus is and the.
06:39<kd5pbo>At what point do you give up on a dictionary attack and start with random characters?
06:39<@SmatZ>you can type it backwards :)
06:39<Uresu>It's a good question, my gut says it would still be cracked quicker, but it would be an interesting project for a uni student.
06:39-!-Yexo [~Yexo@38-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
06:39<kd5pbo>Yeah.
06:40<kd5pbo>Too bad I'm done.
06:40<kd5pbo>Nah.
06:40<@SmatZ>like, dneirflrigtsebehtsielocin
06:40<kd5pbo>Thank God I'm done.
06:40<@SmatZ>you're welcome
06:40<kd5pbo>SmatZ: Then I have to remember that.
06:40<@SmatZ>you get used to that :)
06:40<@SmatZ>hello Yexo
06:40<kd5pbo>Or, I change passwords all together.
06:40<Yexo>hello SmatZ
06:41<roboboy>hello
06:41<@SmatZ>hello roboboy
06:41<KenjiE20>SmatZ has a secret weapon for that :)
06:41<KenjiE20>or was that spike?
06:42<KenjiE20>whatever
06:42<@SmatZ>I don't remember having any weapons
06:42<kd5pbo>KenjiE20: For what?
06:42<KenjiE20>then what's that you just hid?
06:42<KenjiE20>kd5pbo: try www.keepass.info
06:42<@SmatZ>:)
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06:44<kd5pbo>Lol.
06:44<kd5pbo>I just remember them all.
06:45<kd5pbo>Why does only one menu item have a tooltip?
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07:14<roboboy>what time GMT are nightlies built?
07:14<gr00vy>thx @ SirSquidness and kd5pbo|Zzz
07:15<TrueBrain>roboboy: 20:00 CE(S)T
07:15<TrueBrain>in 6 hours and 45 minutes
07:15<@Rubidium>roboboy: TZ="CET-1CEST,M3.5.0,M10.5.0/3" 20:00
07:16<roboboy>so 7 am AEST
07:17<TrueBrain>if you say so
07:17<roboboy>thanx
07:17<Eddi|zuHause>whatever it is, it's in 7 hours
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07:26<Eddi|zuHause>how the hell did that guy get a "160MB image" when compiling openttd?
07:26<@Rubidium>where? who?
07:26<Noldo>mac thread
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=855372#p855372
07:27<@Rubidium>fat library, uncompressed, debug build
07:27<@Rubidium>s/fat library/universal binary/
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07:28<@Rubidium>one debug binary is 52 MiB for me, universal adds 3 giving 156 MiB
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07:29<Timmaexx>Hello,
07:29<Timmaexx>I have a suggestion! Would it be possible to add opntitle.dat to bananas?
07:29<Timmaexx>So you can choose multiple backgrounds?
07:29<@Rubidium>then add 6 MB for languages and title game, et voila 162 MiB
07:29<@Rubidium>would be possible, rather do not do it
07:30-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1EF9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:30<@Rubidium>cause you quickly end with: which of the 30 to take?
07:31<@Rubidium>and: here's mine, with AIs and NewGRFs
07:31<roboboy>OpenTTD should be able to load the original TTD title.dat but it can not
07:31<Timmaexx>wELL I DONT HAVE TO DOWNLOAD THEM ALL...
07:31<@Rubidium>and: here's mine, it's 8 MiB
07:31<Timmaexx>oops sorry capslock
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07:32<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: it might be necessary to convert the game first, as the file extension is relevant to the way the game is loaded
07:32<@Rubidium>roboboy: technically it probably can, but as Eddi said... the extension is relevant
07:33<@Rubidium>Timmaexx: it's not what YOU do, but what the unknowing does... like trying to load all 100+ NewGRFs into a single game
07:33<@Rubidium>or uploading cargodist savegames
07:34<roboboy>I know that as TTD's title.dat is just a sv0 renamed to .dat
07:34<@Rubidium>roboboy: with .sv0 it assumes it a TTD savegame, with .dat/.sav it assumes it's an OpenTTD savegame
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07:35<@Rubidium>now given that someone 'borked' the savegame format long ago, it's not that easy to detect TTD vs old OTTD savegames
07:35<roboboy>and Assumes is the key word
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07:37<@Rubidium>well, show me an ingenious way that assures that it won't misdetect and I'll look at it
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07:41<@Rubidium>and... in the beginning of OpenTTD savegames there was no "header", so missing the header doesn't mean it's a TTD savegame
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08:42<roboboy>are there any major differences in compiling OpenTTD unders MSVC++2008 Professional than Express
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08:43<Eddi|zuHause>there shouldn't be... but with microsoft, you never know...
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09:02<+glx>Pro supports 64bit out of the box
09:02-!-George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd
09:03<+glx>(express supports 64bit too, but it requires user intervention to set it up)
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09:07<@Belugas>hello
09:08<roboboy>Does the OpenTTD project have config details for 64bit builds?
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09:10<+glx>projects are ready for 32 and 64
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09:11<roboboy>ok
09:11<+glx>express needs http://jenshuebel.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/visual-c-2008-express-edition-and-64-bit-targets/
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09:26<nicfer>hello.
09:29<nicfer>I have a multiple ottd setup under windows xp and want to know if there's a way to share the grf files between them, having each one an own cfg file
09:29<Ammler>nicfer: RTFM
09:29<+glx>put grfs in mydocs/openttd/data, and a config in each ottd dir
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09:31<Ammler>was there ever a FR to be able to have a generic cfg, which then can be overruled by a kind of local cfg?
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>what's an "FR"?
09:33<Ammler>feature request
09:35<nicfer>(to glx) I can't do that because the cfg file in each installation makes the game for ignore mydoc
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09:35<nicfer>mydocs*
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09:36<+glx>only for cfg
09:36<+glx>it still searches for grf there
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>but it will download online content into the individual data dirs...
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09:48<@Rubidium>roboboy: where's the source for the binary you posted on the forum? It's definitely not a stock version if desyncs are disabled. Anyhow, WHY did you disable desyncs?
09:50<roboboy>can I just post a link to the diff I used?
09:50<@Belugas>desyncs are boring, they stop the fun of the game. it's an evil thing done by devs
09:51<roboboy>is that sufficient for GPL?
09:52<roboboy>providing a link to the diff?
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09:53<@Rubidium>technically probably not, but it's common practice and it's at least a million times better than no source and for seeing what you changed it's also better than providing the full source
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09:54<@Rubidium>nevertheless, it doesn't make much sense to disable desyncs
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10:00<@Rubidium>roboboy: #openttdcoop is running that?
10:00<@Rubidium>as server that is
10:02<roboboy>yes
10:02<@Rubidium>have they hit a new all-time-low in doing stupid things?
10:02<roboboy>the bundle/build will not be needed after the next nightly comes out
10:03<@Rubidium>yeah, but now half will desync and the other half won't
10:03<roboboy>yep
10:04<@Rubidium>then at least call it r19068M or so
10:04<@Rubidium>makes the 'suckers' with the wrong binary fail to connect
10:04<@Rubidium>but no, we're going to use an incompatible version and give it the same version number...
10:04<roboboy>so rename the bundle but not recompile the binary?
10:05<@Rubidium>according to http://www.openttd.org/en/server/105 they're running an unmodified version, if that's not the case it should say r19068M as version number... not claim it's unmodified. That's just incredibly stupid
10:08<roboboy>theyve hacked findversion.sh which is definately stupid
10:08<roboboy>gnight
10:08<planetmaker>:S Someone provided a IMO BAD diff which supposed was meant to "work around" the desync. Why ever.
10:09<planetmaker>I don't know what the binary has we currently run.
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10:20<Ammler>the "Someone" was me
10:20-!-welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd
10:20<Ammler>we tried, if it works
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10:21<Ammler>roboboy: might be better you remove the binary there.
10:22<Ammler>Rubidium: we run a patched server for quite a long time already.
10:22<Ammler>since dih run his autonightly
10:22<@Rubidium>Ammler: and in it you're modifying how the @#$%@#$%@#$ pathfinder works?
10:24<Ammler>someone had the idea, that backport the fix might work, also for unpatched clients.
10:24<@Rubidium>if you change it so the server dumps a bit more information to the console... that's fine, but modifying the game engine's logic, that's bad... very bad
10:25-!-mode/#openttd [+b someone!*@*] by Rubidium
10:25<Ammler>yeah, it seems also very lagging now
10:25<Ammler>dunno, if that is caused by the backport :-)
10:25<roboboy>I will remove the patch when I get up in the morning
10:25<Markk>welshdragon: Is your name Mark MacDowelle?
10:26<@Rubidium>Ammler: might be... the pathfinder caching is disabled when going to a multi-tile waypoint
10:26<Ammler>Rubidium: so it will also lag after we use again a regular nightly?
10:26<@Rubidium>yes
10:27<welshdragon> Markk nope
10:27<@Rubidium>unless you come up with a better fix
10:27<Markk>welshdragon: Mkay. :)
10:27<Markk>My first nick was MarkMc. :)
10:27<Markk>(från Mark McDowelle)
10:27<Ammler>what is the diff to a "via station"?
10:28<@Rubidium>stations are safe waiting points
10:28<Ammler>we have already too many trains to change the orders, else we could try it :-)
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10:33<@Belugas>mmh
10:33<@Belugas>we have lost our dns server
10:33<@Belugas>bad
10:33<@Belugas>anyone can verify what is the exact definition of CVV2, regarding credit card number? would be nice
10:35<SirSquidness>Belugas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cvv2
10:36<@Belugas>our dns service does not work, SirSquidness. But thanks for the effort
10:36<@Belugas>IP addresses work, not "named" IP
10:37<SirSquidness>oh, sorry
10:37<SirSquidness>I thought you meant OpenTTDs DNS server was down or something
10:37<SirSquidness>It's the extra number on most credit cards
10:38<SirSquidness>that you enter as a 'security measure'
10:38<SirSquidness>The Card Security Code (CSC), sometimes called Card Verification Value (CVV or CV2), Card Verification Value Code (CVVC), Card Verification Code (CVC), Verification Code (V-Code or V Code), or Card Code Verification (CCV)[1] is a security feature for credit or debit card transactions, giving increased protection against credit card fraud.
10:38<Ammler>SirSquidness: pm it :-)
10:38<SirSquidness>If you need an alternate DNS server, 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: use an external nameserver? like 4.2.2.1 or 208.67.222.222
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10:50<@Belugas>thanks SirSquidness, that's perfect
10:50<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, i'll try something like that. dunno if it would fit our "corporate" network...
10:52<SirSquidness>surely if you're on a corporate network, your IT admins would have redundant DNS servers?
10:52<SirSquidness>'cos.. you know... not having a DNS server sort of prevents a lot of stuff happening, especially if you're on an Activedirectory network...
10:54<@Belugas>works, Eddi|zuHause. milles fois merci!
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>as long as you don't start to kiss me...
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>:p
10:57*dihedral has a powerbook he does not use anymore....
10:59<@Belugas>our IT admin???? buwhahahahah!!!!!
11:00<dihedral>SirSquidness, you gotta be joking
11:00<dihedral>some admins dont even have a secondary domain controller
11:01<dihedral>well... windows admins :-P
11:01<dihedral>but if you are surprised by that, ask if their server has some sort of RAID configured :-P
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11:05*jonty-comp doesn't have a secondary domain controller, or a redundant DNS, or RAID on his workplace's server
11:06<jonty-comp>but then I don't even know why we have a domain in the first place, Small Business Server is completely useless
11:06<dihedral>:-P
11:06<jonty-comp>if it wasn't already there when I started working there, I'd have got a nice linux server for serving files, and e-mails
11:08<SirSquidness>dihedral: sorry, I like to live in an imaginary world where everyone does things the smart way, not the cheap way
11:08<SirSquidness>;p
11:09<dihedral>i am the only linux admin at work, and i get the cache to setup stuff my way :-)
11:10<SirSquidness>how many windows admins do you have to argue with?
11:11<dihedral>2
11:13<TrueBrain>cache or cash? :p
11:13<@Belugas>crache le cash!
11:13<dihedral>cash :-P
11:13<dihedral>snap
11:14<SirSquidness>lol, that makes more sense
11:16<dihedral>aye
11:16<dihedral>still nice though
11:17<SirSquidness>indeed
11:18<dihedral>who wants a 75 eur voucher for google adwords?
11:19<dihedral>(after the 28th it's only 50 eur)
11:19<SirSquidness>donate it to openttd!
11:19<dihedral>if they want it!!
11:19<dihedral>TrueBrain, Rubidium?
11:19<dihedral>feel like having a 75 eur google adwords voucher?
11:20<TrueBrain>those are only valid after you pay Google 50 euro to activate it
11:20<SirSquidness>typical -_-
11:22<dihedral>nope, you need to pay 5 eur exc. vat
11:22<dihedral>and it only works with new accounts
11:22<dihedral>(new = younger than 14 days)
11:23<TrueBrain>exactly
11:23<TrueBrain>then you think you get things for free
11:23<TrueBrain>tss, it is Google, of course not
11:24<dihedral>perhaps someone wants it... i know i dont
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11:49<TrueBrain>http://www.ongein.nl/video-photoshop-kok-11438.aspx <- briliant!
11:52<jonty-comp>< dihedral> who wants a 75 eur voucher for google adwords? <-- we have one of those at work!
11:53<jonty-comp>TrueBrain: awesome :D
11:54<jonty-comp>wish cooking was as easy as photoshop :P
11:54<jonty-comp>or perhaps the other way around
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19145 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt galician.txt slovak.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: galician - 25 changes by Drenghist
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: slovak - 4 changes by keso53
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14:00<@peter1138>heh, people seem to expect nforenum to magically understand new stuff
14:00<@Rubidium>peter1138: well, I'd expect it to not crash horribly on 'wrong-to-nforenum' data :)
14:01<@peter1138>yes
14:01<@peter1138>probably just an assert ;)
14:03<Terkhen>OpenTTD 2.0!
14:05<TrueBrain>wow, I feel like Futurama .. skipped 1000 years :p
14:07<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: yeah, in 2020 maybe :)
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14:08<@Rubidium>s/tb/Terkhen/
14:09<TrueBrain>would be cool, to just skip 1.0 :p
14:09<TrueBrain>that would annoy a lot of people
14:10<Terkhen>:D
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14:11<Prof_Frink>OpenTTD 0.A.0!
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14:22<Wolf01>hello :o
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14:25<__ln__>wolf! wolf!
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15:30<kd5pbo>How do I see net_fram_freq's value?
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15:30<kd5pbo>I seem to get a lot of errors because of it.
15:31<kd5pbo>frame*
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15:32<Alberth>iirc there is a command to display vars in the console. does 'help' say anything useful?
15:33<kd5pbo>list_vars, but that only gives me two vars
15:33<@peter1138>23329 petern 20 0 2198m 1.5g 8616 D 81 77.0 12:11.42 firefox-bin
15:33<@peter1138>good ol' firefox
15:33<Alberth>in only 12 mintues :)
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15:35<kd5pbo>Alberth: Time to switch browsers.
15:36<@peter1138>1.6g now
15:36<Alberth>nah, it will hit the process upper limit all by itself
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15:38<aber>ahh, thats the point they do not supply 64bit firefox binaries.
15:38<@peter1138>they?
15:39<aber>mozilla foundation?
15:40<kd5pbo>aber: Do you have a 64bit processor?
15:41<aber>yes
15:41<kd5pbo>Why not build a 64-bit version and see if it works better.
15:41<kd5pbo>L
15:41<kd5pbo>?
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15:44<frosch123>maybe they use lots of [(uint32)-1] to access the previous element in an array
15:44<kd5pbo>frosch123: Can you even do that in C?
15:44<kd5pbo>Wouldn't that just access the memory before the array?
15:45<Alberth>not if you have a pointer pointing to the end
15:45<kd5pbo>Ah.
15:45<frosch123>int a[5]; int *b = a + 1; assert(b[-1] == a[0]);
15:46<kd5pbo>Right.
15:46<kd5pbo>What's assert?
15:46<frosch123>now replace the -1 with an uint, an it will magically work on 32bit
15:46<frosch123>#define assert(cond) {if (!(cond)) burp();}
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>why did that make me burp?
15:48<aber>maybe !cond ?
15:48<kd5pbo>aber: Shouldn't matter.
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15:50<aber>Eddi is compiled without -ea ?
15:50<@Rubidium>rather with -ea (enable asplodes)
16:00<+andythenorth>hi hi
16:02<+andythenorth>2.0!
16:03*andythenorth deletes a draft forum post
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16:03<frosch123>what did you suggest? :)
16:03<@Rubidium>full TTDP 2.0 compatability! :)
16:04<frosch123>"you have to post all your personal details to openttd.org to acquire your personal key for ottd, and you have to send all your keystrokes, passwords and data to openttd.org"
16:04<frosch123>oh, wait that was web 2.0, right?
16:05<frosch123>Rubidium: that is not very future proof, what to do in ottd 3.0 ?
16:07<@Rubidium>full TTDP 3.0 support ofcourse
16:07<@Rubidium>i.e. no 3.0 before TTDP 3.0!
16:07<+andythenorth>frosch123: my suggestion for 2.0: "ship working code"
16:07<+andythenorth>I know, I know, it's a big ask :)
16:07<frosch123>what is ship working?
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16:08<+andythenorth>ahem, try reading that again?
16:08<frosch123>oh, "ship" is also a verb, right?
16:08<+andythenorth>yup
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>kd5pbo: it's either a command or a setting, not a variable
16:08<+andythenorth>every other version of OpenTTD appears to work, so I think 2.0 should continue that nice pattern
16:08<+andythenorth>working code is a top feature in my view
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>(the net_frame_freq)
16:09<@SmatZ>[22:04:08] <pcmattman> I'd have banned yorick if I had his mask
16:09<@SmatZ>[22:06:07] *** pcmattman nastavuje režim: +b *!*yorick@*
16:09<frosch123>my suggestion: "make andy support macos port"
16:09*andythenorth may have dry humour
16:09<@SmatZ>everyone loves yorick :)
16:09<+andythenorth>and no to the mac os port
16:10<+andythenorth>so these forums....I just post a suggestion, and then you guys magically implement it right? So I can have anything I like in 2.0?
16:10<@SmatZ>andythenorth: yes, that's exactly how it works
16:10<+andythenorth>oh good
16:11<@SmatZ>too bad it's too late to have everything implemented in 1.0
16:11<Sionide>as long as you help with bug testing/triaging andythenorth
16:11<+andythenorth>in that case, I WANT UNDERGROUND RAILWAYS!
16:11<+andythenorth>never mind that you can't bloody see them :o
16:11<@SmatZ>andythenorth: whan an original idea!!!!!1111oneoneone
16:12<@SmatZ>t
16:12<Sionide>hehe
16:12*andythenorth lulz
16:12<@Rubidium>andythenorth: so how do you know they aren't there, but serviced by another company?
16:12<+andythenorth>dunno, why don't we just implement some code that just moves all the cargo around the map automatically? No routes required.
16:12<frosch123>hmm, underground railways... that would need backporting of quite some revisions from 2.0 branch to trunk
16:12<+andythenorth>kind of 'underground'
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>teleportation railtype
16:13*andythenorth decides to stop twatting around and go eat
16:13<frosch123>andythenorth: actually heisenberg rail is already part of 1.0
16:13<Sionide>what's all this talk of 1.0 ??
16:13<+andythenorth>can we measure a piece of cargo in one place and have it manifest somewhere else
16:13<+andythenorth>?
16:15<frosch123>well, when i was young there was always the discussion, how you could turn the game money into real money. since i transport tons of candy and toffee in toyland that changed somewhat
16:15<Sionide>frosch123, branson did it.. I bet he played TTO as a teen.
16:15*andythenorth awards himself today's beer
16:16<@SmatZ>enojy
16:16<@SmatZ>...
16:16<@Rubidium>Sionide: I bet he didn't
16:17<Sionide>;p
16:17<@Rubidium>but then, my math may be broken
16:17<@Rubidium>assuming 1950+20 < 1994
16:17<dihedral>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238 <- hehehe "our new goal" :-D
16:18<frosch123>anyway, did someone ask branson whether he would brefer 2000 bags of sweets per month?
16:18*andythenorth goes off to model some bulldozers in 3D
16:18*andythenorth gets bored and comes back
16:19<Sionide>frosch123, someone's gotta haul the sweets around..
16:19<frosch123>dihedral: someone registered to post that...
16:21<aber>not 3D, but http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=5tY9AA&search=rotation
16:24<Alberth>now if only everything looked the same from every direction...
16:24<dihedral>hehe - someone claims all sprites exist in 4 directions already ....
16:24<Sionide>wow..
16:25<frosch123>rotation in steps of 90 degree is quite easy if you choose the right axis
16:26<dihedral>rotation in 360 degree steps is even easier :-P
16:26*andythenorth turns his laptop upside down for rotation of 180
16:26<Sionide>a lot of the later tycoon/theme games have 4 point rotation..
16:26*andythenorth hmmm....the podcast skipped
16:26<@Rubidium>frosch123: the 't' axis?
16:26<Sionide>is ttdpatch still going??
16:27<frosch123>the axis of evil?
16:27<Sionide>:S just wondered..
16:27<Terkhen>why stop at that? go for free view camera
16:27<@Rubidium>frosch123: nah, time :)
16:28<Alberth>Rubidium: only in positive direction :)
16:28<dihedral>Terkhen, if you create the amount of sprites RCT had
16:28<frosch123>Sionide: http://svn.ttdpatch.net/trac/timeline?from=02%2F16%2F10&daysback=45&changeset=on&update=Update
16:28<Sionide>ohh that'd be good, a rewind time button so you can watch a crash, rewind it and prevent it...??
16:29<Alberth>RCT only had 4 directions
16:29-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:29<Terkhen>but they are already done, right? :P
16:29-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd
16:29<frosch123>dihedral: every monkey gets a 3d impression from just two pictures
16:29<Alberth>Sionide: we already have that feature, it's called autosave
16:30<+andythenorth>Terkhen: I *always* draw many more angles than the game can handle....it's just....so fun :)
16:30<Sionide>Alberth, not quite the same..
16:30<Alberth>Terkhen: yep, they were generated with a renderer, I think
16:30<frosch123>Sionide: you mean a "undo knob" ?
16:30<Alberth>(before hand)
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16:30-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
16:30<Sionide>kind of
16:31<aber>rendering, we need to implement ray tracing...
16:31-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
16:31<+andythenorth>can we also implement a first person shooter in the game?
16:31<+andythenorth>OpenTTDoom
16:31-!-fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab14d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
16:31<Alberth>aber: why, how does that transport cargo?
16:31<Alberth>andythenorth: Doomed OpenTTD
16:32<frosch123>andythenorth: magic bulldozer?
16:32<Alberth>yeah, "Magic bulldozer runaway, causing havoc over the land" news
16:33<Terkhen>I didn't know, I was just kidding :P
16:33<TrueBrain>hmm .. more disasters ....
16:33<Alberth>Terkhen: that's when you get the best insane ideas :p
16:33<+andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killdozer!_(film)
16:33<Sionide>more work on new industries would be good.. new stuff to transport, post 1.0 release..
16:33*andythenorth waves his hand
16:34*Alberth points at andythenorth
16:34*andythenorth points at Yexo's industry patch
16:34*TrueBrain slaps andythenorth for pointing
16:34<+andythenorth>Alberth started it
16:35*TrueBrain puts andythenorth in the corner for telling
16:35<Yexo>and wrong telling even
16:35*andythenorth eats dinner and drinks a beer
16:35<TrueBrain>hmm .. beer ....
16:35<Sionide>but that's an optional patch right?? not in trunk?
16:35<Yexo>currently not
16:35<TrueBrain>slapping andythenorth? That is always optinal :)
16:36<+andythenorth>the patch to slap me definitely doesn't compile on mac
16:36<TrueBrain>I do need to fix that
16:37-!-Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:38<dihedral>frosch123> Sionide: you mean a "undo knob" ? <- LOL
16:38<dihedral><andythenorth> OpenTTDoom <- OpenTTDNukem
16:38<jonty-comp>openttd should have a bonus level like theme hospital
16:38<jonty-comp>where you shotgun all the rats
16:38<TrueBrain>OpenThemeHospital
16:38<TrueBrain>wasnt someone working on that?
16:38<FauxFaux>...
16:38<Sionide>they are..
16:38<jonty-comp>well, that already exists
16:38<FauxFaux>Want.
16:39<Sionide>they have a playable beta out..
16:39<kd5pbo>What's Therme hospital?
16:39<FauxFaux>It still works in dosbox.
16:39<IPG>re all!
16:39<FauxFaux>We played it at a recent LAN.
16:39<TrueBrain>of course it works in DOSBox
16:39<Sionide>kd5pbo, take a guess..
16:39<TrueBrain>why wouldn't it?
16:39<Sionide>http://code.google.com/p/corsix-th/
16:39<TrueBrain>TT work sin DOSBox too
16:39<kd5pbo>Well, I know what a hospital is.
16:39<kd5pbo>I'm still trying to figure out what a therme is.
16:39<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: OpenTTD even work(s|ed) in DOSbox
16:40<Sionide>kd5pbo, okay so... extrapolate from that.. what other "Theme" games do we know? Theme Park etc.
16:40<TrueBrain>ghehe
16:40<kd5pbo>Theme.
16:40<jonty-comp>kd5pbo: try removing the r
16:40<kd5pbo>Not therme.
16:40<kd5pbo>Right.
16:40<jonty-comp>darn, beaten to it
16:40<kd5pbo>So, a hospital where I can get treated on a roller coaster?
16:40*jonty-comp spirals into depression
16:40<TrueBrain>pretty active
16:40*KenjiE20 makes jonty take off his elvis constume
16:40<Sionide>kd5pbo, there are no roller coasters.. just different treatment rooms and doctors and nurses..
16:40<KenjiE20>all better!
16:41-!-Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]]
16:41<KenjiE20>-n
16:41<Sionide>jonty-comp, if openttd had a bonus level such as you describe, what would it be?
16:41<Sionide>jonty-comp, shoot the UFOs???
16:41<TrueBrain>300 revisions in 2 months ... not bad, for a game like OpenTH :p
16:41<jonty-comp>something like that
16:42<Sionide>TH is a cult classic
16:42<Sionide>if you ever played the original, whether it be on PC or playstation... it's just a classic!!
16:42<TrueBrain>like TTD
16:42<TrueBrain>or Dune2
16:42<KenjiE20>or SimTower
16:43<TrueBrain>sim what?
16:43<jonty-comp>:O
16:43<Alberth>Simcity
16:43<Sionide>!!!
16:43<@Rubidium>simtower... with santa claus! :)
16:43<IPG>SimSig?
16:43<@Rubidium>don't forget SimFarm :)
16:43<jonty-comp>I found out the other day I could play Jazz Jackrabbit in DOSBox on my PDA
16:43<TrueBrain>SimAnt!
16:43<Sionide>SimTower, yeah or one better.. SIM ANT!
16:43<aber>they can research new illnesses, oO
16:43<KenjiE20>heh simant
16:43<jonty-comp>unfortunately it's not fast enough for anything else :(
16:43<Terkhen>I loved SimEarth
16:43<IPG>does anyone know SimSig?!?
16:43<KenjiE20>I was considering opensimant
16:43<IPG>:)
16:43<@Rubidium>IPG: I do
16:43<KenjiE20>then I realised simant still owkrs fine
16:43<jonty-comp>oh, it can play Sim(Ant|Earth) in the SNES emulator
16:43<KenjiE20>works*
16:44<KenjiE20>IPG: #simsig
16:44<IPG>omg! thx
16:44<Sionide>I think I'm going to have to investigate this DOSBox
16:44<Sionide>anybody ever play Hocus Pocus???
16:44<TrueBrain>I can convert old 16bit DOS application to C code! WHOHO! :)
16:44<KenjiE20>yes
16:44<jonty-comp>I have SimFarm somewhere in my cupboard
16:44<KenjiE20>anyone remember Afterlife?
16:44<KenjiE20>no? thought not
16:44<KenjiE20>:P
16:45<jonty-comp>TrueBrain: good, there's a long list to convert! :D
16:45<@Rubidium>KenjiE20: no, I'm not dead yet (I think)
16:45<kd5pbo>KenjiE20: Actually, sounds familliar.
16:45<kd5pbo>What was/is it?
16:45-!-Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-51-157.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
16:45<KenjiE20>pretty much what it says in the title
16:45<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: openDUNE is the first :p
16:45<jonty-comp>I also remember having Flight Simulator 3 on a floppy disk
16:45<KenjiE20>simhheaven/hell
16:45<jonty-comp>and now I have FS2004 on five CDs :s
16:45<+glx><TrueBrain> I can convert old 16bit DOS application to C code! WHOHO! :) <-- with MIDI sound ;)
16:46<TrueBrain>MPU support, yes, tnx to glx :p
16:48<+glx>jonty-comp: high quality textures and sound ;)
16:48<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: even OpenTTD no longer fits on a floppydisk
16:48<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: did TTD?
16:48<KenjiE20>was about to say...
16:49<TrueBrain>at least the executable :p
16:49<KenjiE20>I remember TTO disks, but not TTDLX
16:49-!-Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@229.72.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd
16:49<Terkhen>NewGRF disasters... I created a few while trying to understand callbacks
16:50<IPG>does anyone know what is the timeout at a server when your account goes to negative to let other people to take over your company?
16:50<TrueBrain>easy to make a disaster out of NewGRFs :p
16:50<IPG>at multiplayer
16:50<@Rubidium>IPG: ~1 year IIRC
16:51<IPG>thx
16:51<kd5pbo>IPG: It's something a server can change, though.
16:52<planetmaker>IPG: IIRC you get three warnings at the 1st of the quarter and if you're still at a negative balance at the 4th you get bancrupted
16:52<planetmaker>and good evening everyone :-)
16:52<TrueBrain>howdie planetmaker
16:52*KenjiE20 runs for the hills
16:52<IPG>thanks for all :)
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>TTO was on 2 floppy disks (installable)
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>and OpenTTD perfectly fits on a 100MB Zip disk ;)
16:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: not with all the BaNaNaS content :p (275 MiB)
16:55*Alberth uses just 10 letters to get OpenTTD :p
16:55-!-Grelouk [~Grelouk@62.82.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:55-!-oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Untenmaa, Utm A½ - Aja 35 Odota seis]
16:55*planetmaker updates to the server's version just by means of "./start ps" ;-)
16:56<planetmaker>which is incidentially also 10 letters :-)
16:56<TrueBrain>makes his system unusable by just 7 chars: rm -rf / :p
16:56<planetmaker>hehe :-P
16:56<TrueBrain>I don't see the point in this game
16:56<planetmaker>TrueBrain: you forgot one prerequisite, though
16:57<planetmaker>I would only screw my data - usually :-P
16:57<TrueBrain>I was talking about my system .. hence the 'his system'
16:58<planetmaker>well, yes. But you're surely not always loged in as root?
16:58-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-199-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...]
16:58<TrueBrain>I didn't say under which conditions
16:58<TrueBrain>same for you: you aren't always in the right dir, are you?
16:58<jonty-comp>that and most sane distros don't let you carelessly rm -rf / anymore
16:58<planetmaker>hence "...forgot prerequisite..." ;-)
16:58<jonty-comp>damn these "are you sure?" messages!
16:58<planetmaker>hehe. also true ;-)
16:59<TrueBrain>but you said: _you_ forgot
16:59<TrueBrain>but it is _we_ forgot
16:59*planetmaker hugs TrueBrain
16:59<TrueBrain>jonty-comp: mine does .. Gentoo for the win :)
16:59*TrueBrain hugs planetmaker
16:59<TrueBrain>:)
16:59-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5f28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:00<@peter1138>gentoo is not sane...
17:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19146 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use CommandCost in industry checking routines.
17:01<TrueBrain>depends on the user
17:02<@Rubidium>the user running x86_64 wanting a stable OpenTTD?
17:02-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
17:03<kd5pbo>Gentoo is perfectly sane.
17:03-!-Lippern [~lippert_8@cm-84.210.200.223.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd
17:04<+andythenorth>I had an idea, so you guys will code it right :P
17:04<+andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=47247
17:04<Lippern>hi. I have problems using OpenTTd multiplayer over internet. can anyone help me?
17:04<+andythenorth>idea above could be 'new in 2.0'
17:04<Lippern>hi. I have problems using OpenTTd multiplayer over internet. can anyone help me Please?
17:06<@Rubidium>Lippern: can you be more elaborate about the problems?
17:07<Lippern>ok, I want to start a server so I can play with my friends. but they cant find me on their lists, its over internet not LAN
17:07<planetmaker>@ports
17:07<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
17:08<planetmaker>^ Lippern open those ports in all firewalls and routers
17:08<planetmaker>well. mostly the server firewall and router
17:09<Lippern>ok, ill try
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause>surely, the emergency number should be '112'
17:11<+andythenorth>:P
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17:14<Lippern>ok, I went into my router adress and went on the firewall and DMZ on advanced, but they ask for a destination connection?
17:16<aber>DMZ is probably not the right place. In my opinion this is a special port and your computer is not connected to this port.
17:17<aber>You need to forward this ports, to your IP Adress.
17:17<Lippern>ok, how do i do that?
17:17<aber>depends on your Router.
17:18<planetmaker>your Router's manual should help you
17:18<Lippern>hehe, thanx
17:18<Lippern>i think i found it
17:18<Lippern>im a bad manual reader
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17:25<Wolf01>'night
17:25-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host75-61-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
17:26<__ln__>'night, Wolf01
17:29<kd5pbo>What can cause a city's population to shrink?
17:30<planetmaker>people moving to other towns :-D
17:30<__ln__>a border opening to west
17:31<planetmaker>city population fluctuates. It can go up or down, if houses get replaced
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>birth rate falling below death rate
17:31<__ln__>plague
17:31<planetmaker>war
17:31<TrueBrain>people getting murdered more than people can fuck new ones
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>in case of openttd, the "birth rate" is controlled by the number of stations, while the "death rate" is dependent on the number of houses
17:31<TrueBrain>9 month delivery time is a bitch
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>so each town stagnates somewhere
17:32<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure there's a hard limit in OpenTTD.
17:32<kd5pbo>Oh, good to know.
17:32<planetmaker>Except the map size of 2048^2
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>there's not a hard limit, but a dynamic limit...
17:32<kd5pbo>More houses mean a higher death rate or a lower death rate?
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>a dynamic balance
17:33<planetmaker>Well... not really. If it can grow it will continue to grow.
17:33-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1EF9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
17:33<kd5pbo>There's plenty of room.
17:33<planetmaker>Just the percentage growth won't stay the same
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>you can expand a city to 300.000 in the scenario editor
17:34<planetmaker>only?
17:34<kd5pbo>I left my city when I went to bed and half of my population left in the middle of the night.
17:34<planetmaker>We've built 1.5M cities ingame
17:34-!-Pod [~Pod@client-81-98-18-113.cht-bng-013.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #openttd
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>but once you start playing the game, and cannot manually adjust size, it will drop
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>to something around 100.000
17:34<planetmaker>so 100000 is not the max town size, by far
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>it depends...
17:35<kd5pbo>Eddi|zuHause: I was at 120k last night.
17:35<Pod>What grfs do you guys play with?
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>house sets might increase the number of inhabitants
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>then of course towns can get bigger
17:36<kd5pbo>Pod: eGVRTS.
17:36<Pod>do you play with just that?
17:36<Pod>I have that and have played with it, but in conjunction with UKRS
17:36<kd5pbo>What's that?
17:36<Pod>UK revival <set?>
17:37<Pod>I just wanna know a good "combo" set, if that makes sense? :P
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the calculation is simple. each tick, a town has an x% chance to grow a house. each existing house has a y% chance to close in a given tick
17:37<Pod>like, I don't want one thing changing the values/prices massively, but another grd not doing so
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>so when x = n*y, the growth and shrinking rates are balanced
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>where n is the number of houses
17:37-!-sparrL [~kvirc@c-76-111-41-244.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:39<planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_91_-_100#gameid_96 <-- still. There's 2 million inhabitants in one of three towns.
17:39<planetmaker>are you sure that it's not "replace house" instead of "close house" actually, Eddi|zuHause ?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>no, those are separate things
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>and TTRS might contain very high density houses, that the standard set does not
17:41<planetmaker>might be that those games are with TTRS. Actually it's likely
17:42<planetmaker>another game was like 4 x <~ 1 million. Can be fun actually ;-)
17:42<planetmaker>Bad thing is that the ICE stations have no chance to get a good rating.
17:42<planetmaker>The PAX turn-over is so high that there's too often too much waiting
17:43<planetmaker>even if it's transported away in the next second by the next TGV or ICE
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>why would they need a good rating?
17:55<planetmaker>well, they don't *need* it. But too many bad stations make the local authority quite unhappy
17:56<planetmaker>Thus it inhibits further development of public transport within that city very much
17:56<planetmaker>and that easily happens within large cities
17:57-!-thingwath [~thingwath@r10lq22.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Vem vás všechny čert.]
17:57<planetmaker>Especially the s-bahn stations near the center are also very crowded and through-put is also high. Thus their rating is also bad, even despite good vehicle coverage
17:57<planetmaker>but yeah.
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18:01<kd5pbo>planetmaker: What's s-bahn?
18:02<planetmaker>inner-city rail. metropolitan rail
18:02<planetmaker>tube
18:02<planetmaker>whatever fits ;-)
18:02-!-nicecupoftea [~daniel@cpc2-bmly8-2-0-cust312.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: nicecupoftea]
18:03<planetmaker>in a certain way also trams would or could qualify
18:06<kd5pbo>Ah.
18:06<planetmaker>hm... I just got a 'connection lost' message from the server when I quit my client normally.
18:06<planetmaker>Is that ok?
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i thought that was supposed to be fixed?
18:07<planetmaker>well. r19145 is what I just used
18:07<planetmaker>I *thought* so, too, though
18:08-!-Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:08<planetmaker>leaving normally = ctrl+q: want to leave OpenTTD? -> Yes
18:11-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
18:17<Terkhen>good night
18:18-!-Terkhen [~Terkhen@167.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
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18:19<roboboy>gmorning
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's after midnight, so technically it is morning
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18:26<Fast2>Eddi|zuHause: His local time is half past ten in the morning ;)
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>australians are weird, they really have everything upside down... gravity points upwards, days are at night, summers are in winter
18:30<__ln__>freedom of speech is censorship
18:30-!-Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-5-155.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>mammals carry their children on the outside
18:33<Hirundo>War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength
18:33<__ln__>kangaroos are spotted much more frequently than in austria
18:34<Fast2>:D
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>i never spotted a kangaroo in either austria nor australia
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... nick colours are dangerous...
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>i constantly mix up people...
18:36-!-DJGummik1h [~joey@ip3007.saw.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #openttd
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's bad enough if you mix uo Hirundo or Terkhen with Rubidium
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>but mixing up planetmaker and TrueBrain may be lethal...
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18:43<planetmaker>hehe
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18:45<planetmaker>good night for now, though
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19:17<@SmatZ>1 US fluid ounce = 1.040842731 imperial fluid ounces
19:17<@SmatZ>it's even more complicated than I thought...
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23:35<kd5pbo>SmatZ: IT means if you ask for 16oz ( a pint ) of beer in the US, you get more beer.
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 17 00:00:12 2010