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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-19

---Logopened Fri Feb 19 00:00:26 2010
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02:24<Terkhen>good morning
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05:57<kd5pbo>Combuster: Why does your nick change so often?
05:58<Alberth>non-reliable connection
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06:08<Eddi|zuHause>he wants to beat the record of nick changes vs. spoken lines ratio...
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06:08<TrueBrain>@seen Combuster
06:08<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Combuster was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 15 hours, 36 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Combuster> There is, as of now :)
06:08<TrueBrain>will be hard
06:11<kd5pbo>@seen [com]buster
06:11<@DorpsGek>kd5pbo: seen [<channel>] <nick>
06:12<kd5pbo>@seen #openttd [com]buster
06:12<@DorpsGek>kd5pbo: seen [<channel>] <nick>
06:12<TrueBrain>@seen "[com]buster"
06:12<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [com]buster was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 30 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <[com]buster> what's the production limit for factories/sawmills/refineries/steel mills?
06:12<kd5pbo>Ah.
06:12<kd5pbo>Thanks.
06:12<TrueBrain>np
06:12<kd5pbo>I was about to escape the brackets.
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07:27<Priski>morgen
07:28<PeterT>hello
07:28<Priski>ooh RC1 already?
07:29<PeterT>yes
07:29<PeterT>was just release
07:29<PeterT>*released
07:29<Priski>I'm gonna spam OTTD to all my friends when the 1.0 stable arives :)
07:29<PeterT>that's why they have mirrors
07:29<Priski>:)
07:30<Priski>well not link I mean, just telling them to at least try it out
07:30<Priski>it would be great to have at least one IRL friend to play multiplayer with
07:31<Priski>with mic and all
07:31<PeterT>i know only one person IRL who plays openttd
07:31<PeterT>that would be my brother
07:31<Priski>:o
07:31<roboboy>one of my friends hates (O)TTD(P) to death
07:32<PeterT>Get new friends
07:32<Priski>I have a sister but I do not know how often she plays it, she just lurks around social media sites all day
07:32<roboboy>and a friend of both of us like (O)TTD(P)
07:32<Priski>:)
07:32-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:32<PeterT>roboboy: Also, you shouldn't use apostrophes in the file name <-- I'm not really sure why, it just messes my patching client up
07:32<PeterT>that's more of a request ^
07:33<roboboy>ok
07:33<PeterT>thanks
07:33<PeterT>would you like a copy of the win32 build when it's done?
07:33*roboboy kicks peter out of Linux land
07:33<roboboy>I have it sitting on my machine running now
07:34<Priski>I have a solid plan today, just sit on the IRC, with some longbow, copparperg paron, beer and maybe some Doodley's (its that vodka + toffee)
07:34<PeterT>right
07:34<PeterT>Priski: Good plan
07:34<roboboy>its against the nightly OpenTTDCoop are using
07:34<__ln__>*päron
07:35<Priski>I can remember how to spell that, lets se it's that good swedish brand cider :D
07:35<Priski>just came from shopping
07:35<Priski>*se = say
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07:35<roboboy>If I upload my build, I should name it r19163M
07:36<Priski>why own build?
07:36<roboboy>I have it set to r19163 so I can connect to OpenTTDCoop
07:36<PeterT>roboboy: Your patch is broken
07:37<PeterT>you forgot to svn add watch_gui.cpp
07:37<roboboy>what do you mean
07:37<roboboy>hm ok
07:37<Muxy>welcome to watch company patch
07:37<PeterT>haha
07:37<Priski>that reminds me, I should somehow make that all different OTTD versions use the same folder for datafiles
07:37<TrueBrain>General notice: expect some slowish on our website: syncing new .DE mirror at 50 mbit/s ;)
07:38<PeterT>.DE mirror by who?
07:38<PeterT>Priski: Possible, what os?
07:39<Priski>PeterT: winXp, just modifying shortcuts to use same working dir should work?
07:39<Priski>that what I was thinking, havent tested yet though
07:39<PeterT>just put the datafiles in C:\Documents and Settings\Username\My Documents\OpenTTD\data
07:40<Priski>ah
07:41<Priski>oh fuck, just remembered I just wiped my win AND workdir and all installed games were removed
07:41<Priski>I have no any game even installed
07:41<Priski>too busy to installing phoshop, OpenOffice, Visual Studio C# + Dev tools and such
07:42*Priski <3 C#
07:42<roboboy>peter uploaded fixed .patch
07:43<@peter1138>i did?
07:43<Noldo>:D
07:43<roboboy>no
07:44<PeterT>roboboy: damn, I just started making my own :-(
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07:51<PeterT>thank you roboboy
07:51<PeterT>it's working fine now
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>writing to an almost full NTFS disk is no fun...
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08:02<planetmaker>you need yet another data sink, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
08:02<planetmaker>maybe it should rather be called NewSink then, though
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08:02<Eddi|zuHause>no, my HDDs are not really full, but they need reorganizing...
08:03<planetmaker>Can be avoided by additional HDDs :-P
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>if you have a spare one that you can send me :p
08:03<planetmaker>hm... I guess they're all in use ;-)
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>but really, i don't need a new HDD
08:04<Eddi|zuHause>i can fairly easily free up like 100GB
08:05<PeterT>just type del C:\*
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>and another 100GB if i had a faster computer...
08:05-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1dbb:879e:c8b0:7dfc] has joined #openttd
08:05-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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08:07<jonty-comp>hmm, the openttd pastebin has been spambombed
08:09<planetmaker>he, yeah. I wonder if anyone will read it, though
08:09<+glx>it's just like any pastebin
08:10<planetmaker>pastebin.ca doesn't accept http:// as far as I remember
08:10<PeterT>the funny part is that they actually try to use html to spam their links
08:11<jordi>what's the point of having voice in an open channel? :)
08:11<Noldo>status
08:12<jonty-comp>planetmaker: it does, I just used it because the openttd pastebin wouldn't let me put the http://links :P
08:12-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
08:12<PeterT>jordi: Because it's cool!
08:12<@glx>I can be op too ;)
08:12-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
08:12<planetmaker>hehe :-)
08:13<planetmaker>It allows to continue conversation, if the channel is +m for whatever reason
08:13*roboboy makes DorpsGek feel like the unwanted user in here
08:13*planetmaker pets DorpsGek
08:13<@DorpsGek>why ?
08:13-!-ptr_ [~peter@p210-n239.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd
08:14<roboboy>aw
08:14<roboboy>doesn't DorpsGek mean the unliked person in a comunity?
08:14<+glx>it's the village idiot
08:15-!-lolman [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has joined #openttd
08:16<planetmaker>"Dorpsgek is een denigrerende naam voor een persoon die zich niet schikt naar de lokale gedragsnormen en daardoor sterk afwijkend gedrag vertoont"
08:16<+glx>you're reading nl.wiki too ;)
08:16<planetmaker>:-P yeah
08:18<roboboy>do the linux versions of OpenTTD hosted on openttd.org count as ports?
08:20-!-lolman_ [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>the binaries available from the website are the official ports
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>there are less official ports in the code that don't have automatic binaries made
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>and there are inofficial ports in the forum or elsewhere
08:24<roboboy>how does one compile for DOS?
08:24<@Rubidium>with djgpp and allegro
08:24<Eddi|zuHause>"make"?
08:25<@Rubidium>cross compiling on Linux
08:25<roboboy>does anyone ever check it hasn't been broken?
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>very infrequently, i presume
08:26<@Rubidium>not really, because the DOS build has been known to only work in dosbox
08:26<planetmaker>Not on a native DOS?
08:26<@Rubidium>or in other words, I couldn't find anybody where it did work on plain old native DOS
08:26<@Rubidium>although that might be due to the video cards not being supported by allegro
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have a computer with DOS around anymore...
08:28<@Rubidium>also networking probably doesn't work
08:28<planetmaker>I might have. But not a working one :-P
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>the oldest computers i have run win95
08:29<ZxBiohazardZx>i had a windows 3.11 till 2 months ago
08:29<roboboy>you could reboot them into DOS mode
08:29<ZxBiohazardZx>damn thing was win
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>i have win 3.11 installed in dosbox ;)
08:29<roboboy>does OpenTTD require a SVGA card or is that unknown?
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: yes
08:30<planetmaker>:-D
08:30-!-svip [~svip@prussia.theinfosphere.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:30<roboboy>then I can not test DOS OpenTTD on my DOS/Win3.11 laptop
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>TT original ran on 640x480x256, that's more than VGA which had 640x480x16
08:30<SpComb^>16 colors is a little limiting
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>oh, good old games that ran on 320x200x256
08:31<@Rubidium>the irony it's still called super vga
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>civ 1, for example
08:31<@Rubidium>technically openttd can run 320x200x256 too
08:31<Noldo>I played civ 1 once this year
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>there was a civ 1 mod for civ 4, but i never tried it :p
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>i tried to play freeciv, but the civ 2 gameplay looks very limited when compared to civ 4
08:32<planetmaker>yeah. unfortunately
08:32<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: oh, try to play TTD
08:33<roboboy>without TDP
08:33<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i never actually played plain TTD
08:33<roboboy>I managed to play TTO for a game last year
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>i remember i had a "nice" way to force one-way-traffic in TTO (which only had two way signals)
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>i believe i still have that savegame...
08:36<@peter1138>the days when games came on one floppy...
08:36<planetmaker>civ I came already on 4 floppies
08:37<@peter1138>doom was quite big too
08:37<roboboy>my TTO came on 3 floppies
08:37<Noldo>need for speed 1 fitted on 37 floppies packed with arj
08:37<Noldo>diablo needed 100
08:38<planetmaker>hehe. Word 5.0 for DOS came on 20 5.25" disks @ 360kB ;-)
08:38<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds a little much
08:39<planetmaker>I still have that box :-P
08:39<+glx>win95 needed a lot of disks too
08:39*roboboy might sleep
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>i only needed two disks for win95 :p
08:39<+glx>you had the CD version ;)
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>well, my laptop didn't have CD drive, so i had to split the CD into disks
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>1.7MB disks
08:40<@peter1138>13 disks for win95
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>one .cab on a disk, and swap out the two disks between the main computer and the laptop
08:41<@peter1138>more later
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>i think there were more than that on the CD
08:41<roboboy>are there any tools to rejoin split files that will work on win 3.11?
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>i guess that they split the cd into 1.7MB .cabs was some kind of "copy protection", because win95 didn't allow formatting floppies to more than 1.44MB
08:42<KenjiE20>old pkzips maybe?
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: what kind of split files?
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen an "arj" program in ages ;)
08:42<Noldo>need for speed we did move, with diablo we gave up
08:43<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I had a format tool which allowed those over-sized disks, too.
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>i had a few floppies formatted to 1.7MB with a program called "vgacopy"
08:43<planetmaker>yeah, that was the name :-)
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>handy little tool, that one ;)
08:44<planetmaker>but it was a bit risky. It wasn't always 100% reliable to work on those disks on all computers for that matter
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>i wonder if i still have that somewhere
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you get "sector not found" error, if the format is not supported on the drive
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>but it gets better than that... i had Novell DOS 7, which included "stacker", so i could also compress the disks
08:46-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>so you could fit 2-3MB on one disk
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>although win95 complained heavily about stacker compressed disks...
08:47<roboboy>wel vgacopy is freeware so ive downloaded it
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>Microsoft and Novell really never got along well :p
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>freeware? i was under the impression it was shareware at best...
08:48<roboboy>I shall be using it to get either win95 or nt4 onto my dads old laptop
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: the easiest tool to combine files under dos is the "copy" command... you can do "copy file1+file2+file3 filecombined"
08:49<roboboy>hm the version of DOS on this laptop must be too old
08:50<roboboy>it wont let me do that
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>might need spaces
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08:51<roboboy>whatever it is, it wouldn't work as I used a tool that autogenerated a .bat that used copy in that manner and it didn't work
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>the next way i could imagine is "type file1 > filecombinded" "type file2 >> filecombined" "type file3 >> filecombined"
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>note the first is only one >, the other double >>
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09:03<TrueBrain>all say hello to our new and latest mirror: http://de.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/
09:03<Noldo>hello!
09:04<PeterT>hello
09:04<TrueBrain>anyone very close to germany which wants to try http://binaries.openttd.org/ and see if it redirects correctly?
09:04<roboboy>hello
09:04<PeterT>who is the mirror sponsered by?
09:04<__ln__>hallo, neues spiegel!
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>seems to work
09:05<aber>Errors found while checking this document as XHTML 1.0 Strict!
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: neuer
09:05<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: thank you
09:05<roboboy>how much data would mirror serve roughly per month?
09:05<planetmaker>the web interface works for me nicely
09:06<TrueBrain>http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mirror.txt <- our requirements
09:06<roboboy>if I was still with my old ISP id ask them
09:06<ZxBiohazardZx>This mirror is sponsored by: Studenten Net Twente at University of Twente
09:06<ZxBiohazardZx>works fine
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09:06<TrueBrain>ZxBiohazardZx: that is not a redirect to the de-mirror, but tnx anyway :)
09:06-!-Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
09:06<ZxBiohazardZx>though id prefer the TUdelft one
09:06<ZxBiohazardZx>im not from de
09:06<ZxBiohazardZx>im dutch:P
09:07<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: grazie
09:07<TrueBrain>so you should learn to read better :)
09:07<ZxBiohazardZx>you said close to germany:P
09:07<TrueBrain>VERY close to
09:07<TrueBrain>Delft is not VERY close to :p
09:07<ZxBiohazardZx>anyone very close to germany
09:07<ZxBiohazardZx>now netherlands is close
09:07<planetmaker>closer than to any of the other mirrors ;-)
09:07<ZxBiohazardZx>;)
09:07<TrueBrain>k, CZ is still taking most of the heat, but ... DE, NL, GB .. they are all very close to eachother :p
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>apparently the "provided by" is a secret :p
09:08<planetmaker>he, yeah, CZ will serve whole South-Eastern Europe, I guess. And parts of Asia
09:08<planetmaker>if distance is the only means to distribute
09:08<roboboy>How much use would an Ausie mirror be
09:08<TrueBrain>planetmaker: it partly is .. not completely :)
09:09<planetmaker>I suspected, given my punctured memories ;-)
09:09<@Belugas>hello
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09:12<Yexo>TrueBrain: http://de.binaries.openttd.org/ gives a 403 Forbidden
09:13<TrueBrain>Yexo: yup
09:13<Yexo>oh, that's intended?
09:13<TrueBrain>nope :p
09:13<TrueBrain>my yup was more for confirmation that I noticed :)
09:13<Yexo>ah, ok
09:14<TrueBrain>but it came out poorly :p
09:16<TrueBrain>there
09:16<TrueBrain>I still should remove the whole /binaries part of the URL .. too lazy :p
09:17<TrueBrain>(requires a full resync for one mirror)
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09:18<PeterT>It's fixed
09:20<Yexo>no mention of a sponsor at all for the de mirror?
09:20<PeterT>"Anonymous"
09:22<roboboy>gnight
09:22<planetmaker>night roboboy
09:22<roboboy>and gmorning
09:22<PeterT>good night
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09:27<PeterT>5 hours until we have a stretch of 24 without a commit
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>there's still the language commit inbetween
09:28<TrueBrain>still 10+% untranslated
09:28<TrueBrain>sad
09:30-!-devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:31<TrueBrain>Yexo: fixed: "Alexey Polyakov" is the sponsor
09:31<Yexo>still doesn't show, but I suppose that might be a caching issue or something like that
09:32<TrueBrain>yup
09:32<PeterT>Ctrl + F5?
09:32<Yexo>that dosen't help for server-side caching
09:33<PeterT>Ok
09:34<TrueBrain>he most likely will also supply a Russian mirror
09:34<TrueBrain>now that is even more useful
09:34<PeterT>for asian users
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10:21<mjk>Wow, 116 nicks here? Nice! :-)
10:22<mjk>Can someone tell me how to enable tooltips for the buttons in OpenTTD 1.0.0.0beta4?
10:22<TrueBrain>I count 124, but okay, normally it is even more busy, but welcome nevertheless :)
10:22<PeterT>mjk: Right-click
10:22<mjk>Yep, /now/ it is 124 =)
10:22<mjk>*testing*
10:22<TrueBrain>nobody joined or leaves since you joined ;) :p
10:22<mjk>Ha!
10:23<mjk>HMM...
10:23<PeterT>rightclick works?
10:23<mjk>TrueBrain: Oh wait, yeah, I misread: "116 normal", but there are also 5 ops and 3 voices =)
10:23<TrueBrain>;)
10:23<mjk>PeterT: Yes, thanks a lot! Sheesh, never thought of right-clicking the buttons :-}
10:23<PeterT>:-)
10:23<PeterT>TrueBrain: Hear that? You are not normal
10:24<mjk>8-)
10:24<TrueBrain>I am neither +v nor +o, so I wonder ....
10:24<mjk>Right-clicking could be actually more practical than the usual way for tooltips ... 1) it's faster, 2) it displays only WHEN you want it and HOW LONG you want it ... I think I like it!
10:24*mjk cuddles the channel. 8-)
10:25<PeterT>TrueBrain: Oops then
10:25<PeterT>Well, DorpsGek == TrueBrain
10:26<TrueBrain>it doesn't even listen to me, so
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10:31<@peter1138>1.0.0.0beta4, eh?
10:32<PeterT>What prevents patches like NewGRF GUI from going into trunk?
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10:43<Oddysee>i have a few questions if someone would be good enough to answer them
10:44<PeterT>We can't answer if you don't ask
10:44<Oddysee>lol ok first one: how come it sometimes cost me money when a certain train delivers coal to a power station?
10:45<planetmaker>look up feeder services and transfer orders
10:45<PeterT>train didn't make a profit?
10:45<PeterT>eg it's been travelling too long
10:46<Oddysee>oh i see, too old?
10:46<PeterT>I guess
10:46<PeterT>also, look at planetmaker's reply
10:47<Oddysee>it makes a profit overall, but when it gets to the station a cost comes up in red instead
10:47<Oddysee>sometimes
10:48<TrueBrain>happens with transfer orders. At each leg you see yellow text; this is the estimated (temporary) income. When at the end of the trip that turned out to be too much, it is compensated with showing red
10:49<Oddysee>ahh ok thanks
10:49<Oddysee>another question: I'm thinking of getting some NewGRF train sets. If I get more than one, can I only use one at a time per game?
10:49<PeterT>"Enable multiple newgrf sets" in advanced settings
10:50<Oddysee>so i can use all the train sets at once?
10:51<PeterT>yes
10:51<PeterT>if you want to
10:51<PeterT>don't enable that setting in-game though
10:51<PeterT>it may have adverse effects
10:52<Oddysee>ok then thanks, one more question: Its 2002 in my game now and I want to convert my entire train network to monorail. Converting the track is fine but replacing the depots is going to be a nightmare. Any way to replace the depots easily?
10:53<planetmaker>depots are easy. Trains will keep you busy.
10:53<planetmaker>and you cannot convert depots which have trains in it.
10:53<PeterT>there is a patch to auto-convert trains, but I wouldn't recommend it
10:53<PeterT>I tested it and it crashes when trying to replace
10:54<Oddysee>well its easy to replace trains i just can't do that with my current depots
10:54<Oddysee>and i don't want to rebuild them all myself :(
10:55<planetmaker>you'll have to.
10:55<aber>Why is there no thing like two depots joint together?
10:55<planetmaker>no one programmed it?
10:55<Oddysee>aww ok, thanks everyone, you've been a great help
11:00<Oddysee>ok, i think i'll send al my trains to depots, convert track, build monorail depots next to my existing ones, then rebuild my trains
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11:05<PeterT>good solution
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11:11<Oddysee>thanks :)
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11:20<planetmaker>industry action0 property #24 - is that implemented in OpenTTD?
11:21<Yexo>yes
11:21<planetmaker>thanks :-)
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11:22<planetmaker>I just wondered: Junk yards are neither extractive industries nor organic really.
11:22<planetmaker>But if I don't declare them either, AIs won't recognize them as primary ones
11:22<planetmaker>Thus I could call it extractive now, but disable the station name "mines"
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11:36<@peter1138>so are they primary industries?
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11:37<@peter1138>are you not 'extracting' resources from junk?
11:37<@peter1138>(of course, if you need junk delivered...)
11:38<planetmaker>They're primary industries, yes
11:38<planetmaker>At least currently.
11:38<planetmaker>They just 'extract' scrap metal from the junk
11:40<mjk>Hmm ... Yesterday, placing/cycling signals worked as expected: 2-way, 1-way, 1-way opposite direction. Today, it only cycles between 1-way and 1-way opposite direction. I deleted ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg to no avail. HELP! :-}
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>mjk: path signals have no "2-way" mode, so they skip it
11:42<mjk>Eddi|zuHause: Aaaaaaaaah! Thanks! *cuddle*
11:42<mjk>Jeeez ... :-}
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12:11<PeterT>IPG: Hello
12:11<IPG>hello
12:11<PeterT>IPG: we have a new server on #jonty
12:11<PeterT>IPG: jolteon offered to host it
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12:13<IPG>im on
12:14<PeterT>ok
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13:35<ragzid>3 hours spent by finding error in script for iptables... then I found that variable WAN != INET... grrr
13:38<mjk>Welcome to life! :-)
13:38<@Belugas>well... ain't really life... but... reality of the virtual world...
13:39<mjk>:-)
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13:42<PeterT>One more hour to go
13:45<PeterT>Nooooooo!!!!
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19164 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 changes by kasakg
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 19 changes by Tvel
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: czech - 4 changes by Hadez
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: galician - 9 changes by Condex
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13:46<PeterT>No, wait! there was a 24 difference between yesterday's language commit and today's!
13:46<PeterT>"Thu Feb 18 18:45:22 2010 +0000"
13:46<PeterT>"Fri Feb 19 18:45:32 2010 +0000"
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13:50<Oddysee>can anyone tell me if a newgrf vehicle set replaces default vehicles or adds to them?
13:50<planetmaker>Oddysee: depends
13:50<PeterT>usually replaces
13:50<planetmaker>usually sets replace
13:50<PeterT>But it can do either
13:50<Oddysee>ok thanks
13:53<Ammler>hmm, every set replaces, but there is also a default set newgrf
13:54<Oddysee>oh i see
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13:56<Oddysee>oh yeah, i'm using dos graphics so if i dl newgrfs using "check online content" will i get the correct version?
13:56<PeterT>why are you using dos graphics?
13:56<Oddysee>i like them, nostalgic
13:56<Ammler>Oddysee: it supports both
13:56<Oddysee>ok thanks
13:56<Ammler>if you get glitches, change the palette
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>Oddysee: you can switch palettes in the newgrf settings later
13:57<Oddysee>ok thanks
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, that can't be autodetected
13:57<Ammler>and I would bet, you need to change it for almost every set
13:58<Ammler>as they use windows usually.
13:58<Oddysee>oh ok
13:58<PeterT>you can also mass-change it
13:58<PeterT>quoting from the --help info:
13:58<PeterT> -i palette = Force to use the DOS (0) or Windows (1) palette
13:58<PeterT> (defines default setting when adding newgrfs)
13:58<PeterT> Default value (2) lets OpenTTD use the palette
13:58<PeterT> specified in graphics set file (see below)
13:59<PeterT>That was a bit large
13:59<Ammler>so start with -i1
13:59<Oddysee>lol now i'm thinking of switching to windows graphics
14:00<PeterT>-i 1
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>Oddysee: that should not be necessary
14:01<Oddysee>alright, i won't, if i see any glaring glitches, i'l just change the pallette
14:01<mjk>Hmmm ... when I try to join airports (ctrl-click), it says "Build a separate station" -- why can't I join 2 airports? The right-click-button-help says I could.
14:01<PeterT>You can join 2 stations
14:01<Yexo>there can be only one airport per station
14:01<PeterT>rail and road only
14:01<PeterT>you can't join docks or airports
14:01<Ammler>starting with -i1 seems easy to me...
14:02<mjk>PeterT: Ooooh .. so that's a bug then? The right-click-button help says "Build airport. Ctrl enables joining stations".
14:02<PeterT>perhaps
14:02<Yexo>mjk: no, that's not a bug
14:02<mjk>Yexo: But instead?
14:03<Yexo>you can join the new airport to an existing station, that does work
14:03<Yexo>but there is a limitation of one airport per station (that's not mentioned)
14:03<Oddysee>it seems that openttd has a great, helpful community :)
14:03<mjk>Yexo: Aaaah ... joining an airport to a railway station would work then?
14:03<Yexo>yes
14:03<mjk>Oddysee: Agreed!
14:03<mjk>Yexo: Thanks for the explanation!
14:03<Yexo>no problem at all
14:04<Yexo>in the same way you can join multiple rail station parts in one station, or multiple bus/truck stops, but there can be only 1 airport and 1 dock per station
14:09<Oddysee>it seems i don't have any AIs. Should I simply dl a few?
14:09<PeterT>Yes
14:09<PeterT>Ai Settings -> Check online content
14:09<PeterT>I would recommend SimpleAI
14:11<Oddysee>ok thanks, its just that the AI debug keeps popping up saying "no suitable AI found to load"
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14:12<PeterT>asb, Git Lord
14:13<Oddysee>oh, i need to get AI libraries too apparently
14:15<PeterT>yes
14:15<PeterT>It should auto-select the need libraries
14:15<PeterT>I just downloaded all of them, in case
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14:28<Wolf01>evening or not evening...
14:28<PeterT>Hello
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14:41<@Belugas>that is the night
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15:32*Belugas stretches
15:33<Wolf01>like a cat_
15:33<Wolf01>'
15:33<Wolf01>...
15:33-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
15:33<Wolf01>?
15:33<@Belugas>like a ... tired and happy guy who finally met a deadline under big fire!
15:35<frosch123>how did you met it? :p did you burst through it?
15:35<Wolf01>gah, I want to continue writing my book, but I don't have any idea :(
15:36<frosch123>err, why do you want to write a book then?
15:38<Wolf01>because I started to write it
15:39<mjk>I have 22 planes which share orders. Now I want 11 of these to share a different order. How would I go about it without a click orgy?
15:40<frosch123>make them both service both orders (alternating)
15:40<mjk>Wolf01: Which book?
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15:41<devilsadvocate>do maglevs disappear after 2050? :\
15:41<Wolf01>science fiction, KGB+Atlantis
15:41<mjk>frosch123: Hm, that's not what I want, actually ... I want to have two independent groups of planes/services ...
15:42<frosch123>well, i guess then you need around 50 clicks
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15:43<mjk>frosch123: Aaah, I see I can copy orders! That will make things much easier. :-)
15:44<frosch123>err, what? may I ask what you meant with "shared orders" then?
15:45<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/Shared_orders#Shared_orders_2 <- i hoped those
15:46<mjk>frosch123: Yeah, exactly ...
15:47<mjk>frosch123: Now I thought I would unshare 11 of my planes, then copy .... aaaaaaah, okay! Yeah, thanks for the hint! Of course ... not copy and then share it "somehow", but simply share them at first. =)
15:47*mjk is confused after being 2 weeks ill :-}
15:47<@Belugas>frosch123, i met him while looking at the mirror
15:48<@Belugas>HAAAAAAAAARGH!!! you're scary!
15:48<@Belugas>finish your stuff now!!!
15:49<Oddysee>ok, to make an add on to an existing newgrf work, do i simply add then apply them both in the newgrf options?
15:49-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1EF1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:58<Oddysee>anyone?
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16:01<@Belugas>mmh?
16:01<@Belugas>what???
16:02<Oddysee>to make an add on to an existing newgrf work, do i simply add then apply them both in the newgrf options?
16:05<@Belugas>can you clarify?
16:05<@Belugas>to make an add on to an existing newgrf work <--- what do you awnt to do?
16:06<frosch123>[21:50] <Belugas> finish your stuff now!!! <- sorry, took me some time to find the answer: http://allane.multiply.com/photos/album/6/Dilbert_on_coffee_and_work#photo=2
16:06<Oddysee>well for example, the UKRS has an add-on to add more trains
16:07<Oddysee>as in another grf file
16:07<frosch123>just add both, usually the addon after the original, and start a game
16:08<Oddysee>ok thanks
16:13<@Belugas>haaaa... addon... add-on....
16:13<@Belugas>and not add, as in publicity...
16:13<@Belugas>make a publicity onto an existing newgrf <--- what i understood
16:14<Oddysee>lol
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16:14<@Belugas>frosch123, that page, sooo true
16:14<@Belugas>Oddysee, thus my extreme perplexity
16:16<Oddysee>lol np
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16:38<ccfreak2k>Belugas, that would be "ad".
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16:42<NeCKeLBR>any PT/BR here
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>why are your questionmarks broken?
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16:46<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: be nice ;)
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16:51<mjk>Is it possible to auto-replace crashed airplanes? (And auto-copy their orders, of course)
16:52<frosch123>no, but you can disable plane crashes in 1.0
16:52<Ammler>hmm, can't you clone the crashed train?
16:52<Ammler>plane*
16:52<frosch123>yes you can clone them ,but is that automatic?
16:52<mjk>Ammler: Yeah (plane), but I want to do that automatically
16:52<mjk>frosch123: Thanks, that's at least an option I can thing about =)
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16:53<Ammler>yes, it is auto in the sence that you get automatically the orders :-)
16:57<@Belugas>YEAH!@!!
16:57<@Belugas>FREEDOM!!!
16:57<@Belugas>bye!
16:58<Ammler>:-)
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17:06<PeterT>[16:51:23] <mjk> Is it possible to auto-replace crashed airplanes? (And auto-copy their orders, of course) <-- Just clone them before they dissapear
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>the third person that gives the same wrong answer...
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>the only correct answer is "no."
17:09<PeterT>well, "auto" replace them, no
17:09<PeterT>but replace them in general, yes
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17:21<Oddysee>does meing able to buy out the AI opponants make them too easy?
17:21<Oddysee>being*
17:23<Oddysee>they're also ruining my lovely network, i mayturn them off all together :)
17:23<PeterT>you know how to stop a running AI?
17:24<Oddysee>yeah thanks, difficulty settings right?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>that only prevents new ones from appearing
17:24<Oddysee>oh
17:24<PeterT>stop_ai <number> in console
17:25<Oddysee>ok thanks
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17:54<Oddysee>yep, next new game i'm not having AI opponants, kind of annoying
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>i decided that 15 years ago ;)
17:56<rane>how so?
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18:10<PeterT>is it usual for GCC to create strange warnings about squirrel?
18:10<Oddysee>lol
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18:14<PeterT>The only real advantage of GCC over MSVC is that it actually stops when it runs into an error
18:14<PeterT>unlike MSVC, which just continues and wastes time
18:17<aber1>and gcc has some options to chose from ;)
18:17<DaleStan>PeterT: "actually stops when it runs into an error" <-- Like when gcc can't open an #include and promptly aborts the compile? Oh wait. That's MSVC. (Don't assign merit to gcc for make's features.)
18:18<PeterT>I've never seen that
18:19<DaleStan>Add #include "filethatdoesntexist.h" to the top of any file. GCC will continue, despite the fact that there's an excellent chance it's going to run into hundreds of errors as a result of not including that file. MSVC will stop dead in its tracks.
18:20<DaleStan>Or, misspell <cstido>
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18:21<PeterT>I'll take your word for it
18:21<PeterT>My mistake
18:21<PeterT>I've never actually had that situation
18:21<PeterT>On an error in french.txt: MSVC continued until it finished, then said "x Succeeded, 1 Failed"
18:22<PeterT>GCC stopped and "make - *** Error [all]"
18:22<DaleStan>No, gcc didn't stop. make stopped. There's a difference.
18:23<DaleStan>Try again with make -k and watch make not stop.
18:24<Yexo>make shouldn't stop on an error in french.txt
18:25<PeterT>what is -k?
18:25<PeterT>Wait, never midn that
18:26<PeterT>Keep going when some targets can't be made.
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18:26<PeterT>So, which is better? MSVC or GCC?
18:26<Yexo>I wouldn't say one is better
18:27<Wizzleby>Matter of tastes and/or needs I'd wager
18:28<PeterT>GCC on msys is good for a quick compile
18:28<PeterT>MSVC is needed for crashlogs
18:29<Wizzleby>I prefer gcc as a compiler because I know how to use it, and I prefer CMake for generating makefiles personally, but I don't generally use gcc in windows much
18:29<PeterT>Also, the CF compiles x64 builds with MSVC pro, correct?
18:30<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19165 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Fix [FS#3629]: vehicle running costs shouldn't be changed in a running game
18:31<PeterT>It's $300, how did you afford that?
18:31<Yexo>IIRC someone already had a valid licence for it that could be used
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18:32<Yexo>PeterT: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=857739#p857739 <- you're most likely missing a cpp file
18:33<PeterT>Thanks
18:33<PeterT>Would you mind looking at my patch file?
18:33<Yexo>if you upload it somewhere, sure
18:33<PeterT>I will pastebin it
18:34-!-Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:34<PeterT>http://paste.openttd.org/223973
18:34<PeterT>the original patch is in the first post
18:34<PeterT>I just made some minor corrections to match current 0.7.5 version
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18:35<Yexo>you should add src/network/citybuilder.cpp to source.list and then configure again
18:35<PeterT>Yexo: It got cut off, please look here: http://users.tt-forums.net/petert/files/citybuilder_0.7.5.diff
18:36<PeterT>ok
18:36<PeterT>must it be in alphebetical order?
18:36<Yexo>yes, or the msvc files wil lchange again when someone uses them
18:36<PeterT>MSYS, in this case
18:37<PeterT>should I add citybuilder.h?
18:37<Yexo>yes
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18:40<PeterT>Yexo: How is this? http://users.tt-forums.net/petert/files/citybuilder_0.7.5.diff
18:40<PeterT>updated
18:40<Yexo>looks ok
18:41<PeterT>there were some warnings...should I be concerned about those?
18:41-!-Uresu [~Wes@5ace7bae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:41<Yexo>depends on the warnings
18:41<PeterT>it's not possible to copy and paste while it's compiling, or else it will break?
18:42<PeterT>Great, compilation worked
18:42<PeterT>Yexo: http://paste.openttd.org/223974
18:43<Yexo>NULL used in arithmetic <- I don't like those
18:43<Yexo>nor those passing negative value `-0x000000001' for converting 2 of `Town* ClosestTownFromTile(TileIndex, uint)'
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18:44<PeterT>what could they be substituted with?
18:44<Yexo>warning: cannot pass objects of non-POD type `class Money' through `...'; call will abort at runtime <- that's an important warning
18:44<Yexo>warning: converting to `int' from `double' <- using floating point variables in network mode is a big no-no
18:46<PeterT>I'm getting lot's of "invalid commands"
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18:48<PeterT>Yexo: http://users.tt-forums.net/petert/files/invalid.png
18:49<Yexo>you'll have to figute that out yourself
18:49<Yexo>obviously something is still wrong with the patch
18:49<PeterT>That's true
18:50<PeterT>At least now I can use this code to figure out how servers do those "!help" commands in privmsg
18:53<PeterT>Is it strange that the metro track set makes the toolbar pink in windows pallete, but in DOS pallete, it is fine?
18:54<PeterT>Never mind, I was using the wrong GRF
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>pink is typical for using a dos newgrf under windows palette, while brown is typical for using a windows newgrf in dos palette
18:55<PeterT>I was using a dos newgrf under windows pallete
18:56<PeterT>but a dos newgrf under dos pallete on a windows system?
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>the palette has nothing to do with the system
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19:27<Wolf01>'night
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19:28<mib_uqmy8f>Hello, is petert here ?
19:28<PeterT>Yes
19:28<PeterT>hello
19:28<PeterT>You might want to change your nick: /nick <newname>
19:28-!-ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
19:28<mib_uqmy8f>hello, you have a pm.
19:29<mib_uqmy8f>I never do that sorry.
19:29<PeterT>ChillCore?
19:29<PeterT>I've already replied
19:30<mib_uqmy8f>Yep ChillCore.Ok, will read. Sorry once more. Goodnight all.
19:30<PeterT>It is fine, don't sweat it
19:30<PeterT>Night
19:31<mib_uqmy8f>Night
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19:33<Sacro>http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696 <- learn to pick fights
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20:21<Eddi|zuHause>"After carefully reviewing this bug report with our board of directors on 4chan" <-- great ;)
20:23<kd5pbo>Or, just don't use PHP.
20:23<kd5pbo>Simple.
20:25<__ln__>Am I mistaken or is the famous gambling city of The Plains in a state called Snowfall?
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>that's the only thing that caught you as odd?
20:29<Eddi|zuHause>not that there's a Kansas City (Missouri) and a Kansas City (Kansas) right next to each other
20:29<kd5pbo>Nevada == snowy, not snowfall.
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>or that there's a town called "Brotherlove" in a state called "Penn's forest"
20:30<kd5pbo>That one makes sense, actually.
20:30<kd5pbo>Penn was a quaker.
20:30<kd5pbo>Original peaceniks.
20:33<__ln__>My dictionary says nevada is snowfall, but well, it's known to be wrong before.
20:34<kd5pbo>It might be, as a nown.
20:34<kd5pbo>noun*
20:34<__ln__>But another thing is whether Nevada is spanish or just happens to sound like it.
20:34<kd5pbo>It's Spanish.
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>lots of names around there are spanish
20:36<kd5pbo>Yep.
20:37<kd5pbo>Like, most of California.
20:37<kd5pbo>And a good chunk of Texas.
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20:37<__ln__>I was just thinking about the possibility that it's one of those three-syllable names that originate from a native language.
20:38<__ln__>But nevermind, that's not the case.
20:38<kd5pbo>Nah.
20:38<kd5pbo>Not Nevada
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>that kinda implies that there were actually people living there :p
20:40<kd5pbo>In Nevada?
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20:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's what we're speaking about... if the natives had a name for this place, that would require actual natives living in the region (before european settlers arrived)
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20:43<Eddi|zuHause>besides, seeing that large parts of nevada are mountains, there's a good chance of snow being found there...
20:44<kd5pbo>Well, if I had to guess, it was probably just a mountain that was named, but when it came time to decide borders and whatnot, the name was applied to a massive chunk of nothing.
20:45<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds likely... considering the number of "sierra nevada"s out there...
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which, the snow around here is starting to melt...
20:47<__ln__>the snow around here not
20:48<Eddi|zuHause>it was lieing there for about one and a half months now... i don't remember ever snow staying that long...
20:48<__ln__>snowed some more today, and now it's -18 °C
20:48<kd5pbo>__ln__: Where do you like?
20:49<kd5pbo>live*
20:49<__ln__>southern finland
20:49<kd5pbo>Ah.
20:49<kd5pbo>Cold.
20:50<PeterT>is there a [net] debug setting to stop the "queries" but enable other debugs?
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>the only place during this winter that doesn't have snow is vancouver :p
20:50<Eddi|zuHause>what irony :)
20:50<+glx>hehe
20:50<+glx>and washington go a lot
20:50<+glx>*got
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>washington state?
20:51<kd5pbo>DC
20:51<kd5pbo>Other side of the country.
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20:52<__ln__>we've also had an exceptionally cold and snowy winter. the snow has been on the ground for more than two months now.
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>well... would be weird if washington state had snow and vancouver, which is right outside of washington state had not...
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>a friend of mine came back from vancouver about a month ago, and he complained about a temperature drop of 20°C
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>(like from +10°C to -10°C)
20:55<kd5pbo>That's really cold.
20:56<kd5pbo>'Course, I'm in Texas.
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>he whined about that the whole time he was here...
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>he's now back in vancouver :p
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>kd5pbo: so what's the temperature over at your place?
20:58<kd5pbo>Hm.
20:58<kd5pbo>60's today, I think.
20:58<kd5pbo>15 and a half C
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>ähä... and you wear sweaters and ponchos at that temperature? :p
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20:59<kd5pbo>Nah.
20:59<kd5pbo>A light jacket.
20:59<kd5pbo>I've not worn a poncho in a good long time.
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose you don't have rain either :p
20:59<kd5pbo>We do, every so often.
21:00<kd5pbo>Had some last week.
21:00<kd5pbo>Texas isn't all desert, contrary to popular belief.
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>wait... i thought america's speciality was fulfilling prejudices and cliches?!
21:01<kd5pbo>There's desert in Texas, just not my part.
21:01<kd5pbo>Texas is big.
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21:02<kd5pbo>It's about two Germanies.
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>texas is like bavaria
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>it's fairly large, very religious, the people speak a weird dialect and people from there are generally not liked in the rest of the country and vice versa
21:03<kd5pbo>Lol.
21:04<kd5pbo>There's a big difference between cities in Texas and the country.
21:04<kd5pbo>Country as in non-urban areas.
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>there's a big difference between munich and the rest of bavaria, too ;)
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>oh, i forgot "they dress weird"
21:05<kd5pbo>We dress the same as the rest of the countyr.
21:05<kd5pbo>country.
21:05<kd5pbo>City folk don't have silly accents.
21:05<kd5pbo>I don't ride a horse, own a gun, or shoot indians.
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>something i don't understand: how do you people tell apart if you're speaking about indians as in native americans or indians as in people from india...
21:06<kd5pbo>Sometimes it's ambiguous.
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>in german, those are two different words...
21:07<kd5pbo>Actually, Indians == Native Americans isn't politically correct, anyways.
21:07<kd5pbo>But, the short answer is, we don't.
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>"Indianer" vs. "Inder"
21:07<kd5pbo>Yeah, for us it's just Indian and Indian.
21:09<kd5pbo>Just for the record, nobody shoots them any more.
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>the only way germans know about indians are from western movies...
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>which is a very... limited... picture
21:11<kd5pbo>Uh, yeah.
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>especially if you consider that half of these movies were based on stories by a person who never set foot on american soil :p
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21:15<kd5pbo>Who?
21:16<Ammler>but not the Winnetou guy?
21:17<Ammler>Karl May or so...
21:18<Eddi|zuHause>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May
21:19<kd5pbo>Oh.
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>if i skim this correctly, only his last book (Winnetou IV) was written after he actually visited america
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21:53<Bluelight>Ok how do I demand that people make a password before they start playing?
21:54<Bluelight>Is it able to be set from the config file?
21:54<PeterT>No
21:55<Bluelight>Ok
21:55<Bluelight>Script?
21:55<PeterT>No, don't think so
21:55<PeterT>You could try AutoPilot or Avignon
21:55<PeterT>do you have linux?
21:56<Bluelight>No..
21:56<Bluelight>But I will maybe have it later..
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21:56<PeterT>ok
21:56<PeterT>AutoPilot/Avignon only works on linux
21:56<Bluelight>ok
21:57<Bluelight>On FreeBSD?
21:57<PeterT>maybe
21:58<Bluelight>Most linux based software works I think..
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21:58<Bluelight>But I have something to share.. :) My router finally stays stable and I don't know why, but now it's working..
21:59<Bluelight>Even hosting a game works well too..
21:59<Bluelight>There is light in the tunnel..
21:59<Bluelight>But now I'm going to bed.. It's very late.. :p
22:00<PeterT>night
22:00<Bluelight>Night.. :)
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22:53<Sacro>http://www.browserchoice.eu/BrowserChoice/browserchoice_en.htm
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 20 00:00:26 2010