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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-21

---Logopened Sun Feb 21 00:00:26 2010
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04:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19181 /trunk/bin/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
04:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Change: rework the order of the data in the base graphics metadata files.
04:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Add: translations for Czech, German, Finnish and Spanish to the base graphics metadata files.
04:21*roboboy doesm't expect his patched build to build
04:24<roboboy>oo it seems to have compiled
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04:28*roboboy waits for his build to start
04:30<roboboy>hm it seems to work
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04:49*roboboy wonders how often timetables are used
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05:03<Terkhen>good morning
05:04<kd5pbo>Terkhen: Good morning.
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05:18-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
05:18-!-mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ
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05:19<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: TrueBrain
05:20<TrueBrain>good boy
05:20<TrueBrain>who is a good doggy .. who is a good doggy! YES ! YES!
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05:26<@Rubidium>is it a dog?
05:27<@DorpsGek>Bark bark
05:27<@Rubidium>or is it an dyslexic dog?
05:27<TrueBrain>his boss is, so ..
05:27<Muxy>and does he knows a lot of people ?
05:27<@Rubidium>so it's god?
05:28<TrueBrain>Rubidium: nah
05:28<@Rubidium>oh... the mean and median for the title game vote is almost the same :)
05:28<@Rubidium>so the votes must be pretty evenly distributed
05:28<TrueBrain>but shouldn't you have the top? :p
05:31<@Rubidium>yeah, the top 3 (or maybe 4) will go to the next round
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06:30<kd5pbo>What's the point of @whoami?
06:30<Zuu>To see if DorpsGek know who you are?
06:30<@DorpsGek>Zuu: I don't recognize you.
06:31<kd5pbo>Not to tell you who you are, then?
06:31<Zuu>So I can't do op commands which people who are recognized can.
06:31<Zuu>(at least that I think is what it is for)
06:31<kd5pbo>DorpsGek: @help
06:31<Muxy>Zuu: and to do Ops commands, then you need to have Op capability also
06:32<Muxy>kd5pbo: you can have more information with googling supybot
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07:02*roboboy shall try to sleep
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08:32<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19182 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use CommandCost return value in CheckIfIndustryIsAllowed() and CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry().
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08:49-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:53-!-planetmaker is now known as tycoon
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09:17<PeterT>with the changes in trunk, will commands like "!name" be unavailable?
09:17<PeterT>or do the changes in trunk only disallow things like CityBuilder?
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>do you have a specific change in mind?
09:22<PeterT>I believe it was some kind of "CompanyCheck"
09:22<PeterT>let me look at the flyspray
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09:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19183 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Return CommandCost from FindTownForIndustry().
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10:14<PeterT>what would go after the equals sign in a ban?
10:14<PeterT>123.456.789.000 = ?
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>why would there need to go anything?
10:17<PeterT>Why is there an equals sign?
10:17<PeterT>I didn't put it there
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>that's what you get for using a standard format...
10:26*PeterT should learn to use rm -Rfv
10:26<Ammler>PeterT: is that ipv7?
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10:27<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19184 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Return succeeded/failed command from CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree().
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10:34<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: hey, people received mails like that, billing them for downloads they made with that IP ;)
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10:52*andythenorth is sleepy
10:58<andythenorth>anything interesting happening?
10:58<PeterT>andythenorth: no
11:00*Gar`zzz goes to sleep now
11:01<PeterT>Good night
11:01<PeterT>even though it's only 11:00Am
11:01<Alberth>PeterT: you are in the wrong time zone.
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11:32<Alberth>trying a few different jobs ?
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>making planets all day long might get boring after a while...
11:34<planetmaker>he. Sorry
11:35<planetmaker>server issues :-)
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11:44<ashb>wow. thats quite some train
11:47<planetmaker>nice train :-)
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11:57<PeterT>Is there any reason that a file might fail to be deleted?
11:57<PeterT>"<PeterT> !rcon rm test.sav
11:57<PeterT><Server> PeterT: test.sav: Failed to delete file"
11:57<ashb>no perms, or the file is open on windows, or it doesn't actualyl exist
12:01<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19185 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industries.h): -Codechange: Return succeeded or failed CommandCost from CheckIfCallBackAllowsCreation().
12:01<aber>sudo rm -rf :)
12:01<PeterT>recursive? no
12:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19186 /trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Remove use of _error_message from CmdLevelLand().
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12:04<Ammler>PeterT: might not be possible with rcon
12:05<PeterT><Jolteon> the openttd user has no permission to delete anything.
12:05<PeterT>There is my problem
12:05<Alberth>simply save a more useful game over it
12:06<Ammler>doesn't work here either
12:07<Ammler>no rcon issue, !rcon of ap does access the console directly
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12:09*andythenorth awards himself a cup of tea
12:10-!-Muxy is now known as Guest48
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12:10<Ammler>rm looks like obsolete/deprecated
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12:11<Ammler>PeterT: if you have write access, you usually also are able to remove those things
12:11<Ammler>else it is quite a silly setup
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12:12<PeterT>Here's the code that deals with rm
12:13<Ammler>PeterT: write a custom command to delete files
12:13<Zuu>A cup of tea sounds like a good idea.I have only had one cup today. (usually I'll have 3-5 cups of coffe/tea / day)
12:13<PeterT>a script?
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12:15<Ammler>you still don't know what a custom command in AP+ is?
12:15<PeterT>No :S
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12:31<PeterT>Why is strgen compiled for macosx when mac builds have been canceled?
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12:52<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19187 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3634]: the vehicle info in the autoreplace gui was drawn even when the window was shaded
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13:41<PeterT>is there a way to move all ungrouped vehicles to a group?
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19188 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 1 changes by kasakg
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: esperanto - 59 changes by Ailanto
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: hungarian - 8 changes by IPG
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 2 changes by Phreeze
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13:46*PeterT kicks CIA-1
13:47*PeterT rubs CIA-34's tummy
13:47*PeterT rubs CIA-1s tummy
13:47*PeterT rubs CIA-1's tummy
13:47<DJNekkid>i've found yet another "bug" with the new railtypes
13:49<DJNekkid>discribed in the new railtype thread in the dev section on the tt-forums
13:51<ccfreak2k>I had a dream that I mentioned something about DOS graphics in here.
13:51<ccfreak2k>And you guys kept kicking me out.
13:51<ccfreak2k>Linking to the FAQ/wiki/whatever.
13:51<ccfreak2k>I think it was Eddi|zuHause.
13:53-!-_Muddy is now known as Muddy
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>i kicked you in your dreams?
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>man, i don't want to know about that stuff...
13:53<DJNekkid>ehm, nevermind that that comment from me...
13:54<ccfreak2k>It's too late.
13:54<ccfreak2k>You already know.
13:54<ccfreak2k>It is impossible to unknow.
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14:06<Frankr>Does anybody here know the use of the CB36 Cost property, for a newgrf?
14:07<DaleStan>What are you doing now?
14:07<DaleStan>And what unexpected behaviour are you seeing?
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14:08<Frankr>well i want to see whether i can attribute this cost property to a specific sprite
14:08<Frankr>i was wondering what it was used for
14:08<Frankr>or if it just doesn't have a use
14:09<Yexo>the cost is only used when the vehicle is bought, so why would you want to change it later?
14:09<DaleStan>You can't attribute a property to a sprite. In NFO, you can't attribute anything to anything, in fact.
14:09<Yexo>in other words, what does it have to do with a specific sprite?
14:10<DaleStan>But even if you'd used the correct verb: You can't set a property for a sprite.
14:10<Frankr>well we want to put in a kind of landing fee charge for aircraft
14:10<Yexo>you can't do that with a newgrf
14:10<DaleStan>Then CB 36 is not your friend.
14:11<Frankr>ok thanks guys
14:11<Frankr>Is there no point in the Cost property then?
14:11<DJNekkid>there is
14:11<DaleStan>It has a point, that's just not it.
14:11<Yexo>of course there is, it's the price you have to pay for the vehicle to buy it
14:12<DJNekkid>it can change over years for example
14:12<Frankr>ah that would make sense
14:12<DJNekkid>or it can change during "exclusive testing"
14:12<DaleStan>Just because it doesn't do what you want (or what you think it does) doesn't mean it doesn't do anything.
14:12<Frankr>i know Yexo i just wondered why you would have a cb for it
14:12<DaleStan>There are very few things in NFO that have no point.
14:12<Yexo>what you could do it give a plane a very high running cost while landing
14:13<Frankr>that is an area i have looked into
14:13<Frankr>but it would get a bit stupid
14:14<Frankr>say for example people have the plane speed rightly so on 1/1 then the landing will be one tick, if we want the fee to be £30k then we are at 12mill
14:15<Frankr>thanks anyway guys for your help
14:16<DJNekkid>word size running costs would be nice :P
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14:19<ccfreak2k>Has anyone come up with a patch to allow competetor vehicles to stop at your stations for a fee per vehicle?
14:20<Matthew>i dont know
14:20<Yexo>it's called infrastructure sharing
14:20-!-Matthew is now known as Guest60
14:20-!-Guest60 is now known as Nekomaster
14:21<Nekomaster>hmm, but IsS doesn't allow you to connect your networks to competitors
14:21<Yexo>it does
14:21<Nekomaster>I tried
14:21<Nekomaster>IsS 2.1
14:21<Yexo>then you must've forgot to enable the settings or so
14:21<Nekomaster>I was playing on a ISS server
14:21<Nekomaster>with the most recet ISS version
14:22<planetmaker>The ISS is controlled from Houston, Texas.
14:22<Nekomaster>International Space station now has email
14:22<lennard>heh, openttd on the internation space station
14:22<lennard>that'd be the da
14:23<Nekomaster>i bet someone already has
14:23<lennard>also, gprs sucks when typing over ssh :P
14:23<planetmaker>I bet they don't
14:23<Nekomaster>how do you know?
14:23<Nekomaster>they have computers
14:23<lennard>they get to look down on the world irl
14:23<planetmaker>Time and resources cost way more than you probably think
14:23<planetmaker>Nekomaster: yes, I DO know.
14:23<Nekomaster>: \
14:24<Nekomaster>Are you on the ISS?
14:24<Hirundo>Yes, his planet factory is there
14:24<planetmaker>And I know that is a problem to get a simple uplink to the ISS for WORK purposes
14:24<ccfreak2k>They finally have e-mail up there?
14:24<Nekomaster>there was a thing on google news a few weeks back
14:25<Nekomaster>before they'ed have to get the guys on the ground to deal with email for them
14:25<PeterT>ccfreak2k: It's called IS, and we have a server at #jonty, and
14:25<PeterT>ccfreak2k: Working !dl commands, too
14:25<ccfreak2k>I don't know what !dl is.
14:25-!-PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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14:26<ccfreak2k>Huh huh huh/
14:26-!-DaleStan is now known as Guest61
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14:26<PeterT>ccfreak2k: Just join either #jonty, or, then type "!download" to get IS binaries
14:26<PeterT>then you can join the server
14:29<Nekomaster>what the hell?
14:29<Nekomaster>why was peter just booted?
14:29<Yexo>Nekomaster: how hard is it to read the kick message?
14:31<Nekomaster>So, anyone here that has free time that can code a small, 2 train grf?
14:32<Nekomaster>well, 2 loco and 2 Passenger cars
14:32<Nekomaster>I can't
14:32<DaleStan>I'll direct you to my price list, posted somewhere on the forums.
14:32<Nekomaster>: |
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14:33<Nekomaster>I don't know how many times i've told people, but I can't code any programing language, its just too much for me, I can sprite, but not code
14:33<Nekomaster>and its only a simple set, just to update my QR Tilt Train Set
14:34*andythenorth meh
14:34<Nekomaster>: \
14:34<andythenorth>Nekomaster: that wasn't a "meh" at you
14:35<andythenorth>it was 'meh' at underground suggested yet again.
14:35<Nekomaster>thats why we need to try and do street running railways, it'll be some work but it'll probably be easier to do
14:36<Nekomaster>Street running rails eliminates the need for underground view
14:36<Nekomaster>well, not fully
14:36<Nekomaster>but for running railways in cities it helps
14:37<andythenorth>Nekomaster: that one's not going to happen :)
14:37<Nekomaster>Why not?
14:37<andythenorth>I know it would be cool, but it's too hard
14:38<Yexo><Nekomaster> thats why we need to try and do street running railways, it'll be some work but it'll probably be easier to do <- it won't be any easier
14:38<Nekomaster>hasn't alot of other things?
14:38<andythenorth>road vehicles don't really have much in the way of the collision detection code
14:38<Yexo>there is not enough room in the map array for that, so it'll be as hard as underground railways
14:38<Nekomaster>fine, what ever
14:38<Nekomaster>1 lest realistic thing to think about
14:39<andythenorth>it would be way too easy to deadlock a whole city / rail system because the code for street running can't move vehicles out of the way
14:39<andythenorth>but....I think I've just 'solved' underground
14:39<andythenorth>I need RoadTypes though
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14:39<andythenorth>hmmm....who was working on that
14:39<PeterT>was working on it ^
14:40<Nekomaster>yeah, I think there was a peter on it
14:40<andythenorth>All underground needs is a road type. The trains can be invisible, the tracks are invisible, all that's needed are stairway entrances to the subway
14:40<andythenorth>there will be some interesting side effects on other RVs though
14:40<Nekomaster>but then wouldn't we have to make the roads have diagonals too"?
14:41<Nekomaster>since a one tile turn is unrealistic even for subways
14:41<andythenorth>it would basically just be invisible trams. Which could be 'underground'
14:41<PeterT><DaleStan>I'll direct you to my price list, posted somewhere on the forums. <--
14:43<Nekomaster>those are unrealistic prices
14:44<PeterT>don't mention realism in front of Belugas!
14:44<PeterT>also, $30 is hardly unreasonable for doing work that no one wants
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see why these prices would be unrealistic
14:45<Nekomaster>oh, well I only saw like over 100 per hour
14:45<andythenorth>what's wrong with that?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>really, i don't see that being unrealistic
14:45<andythenorth>that's reasonable for coding
14:45<Nekomaster>no programmer for something this small would get paid that much per hour
14:46<Nekomaster>maybe 50 USD per hour
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>you go at this from the wrong side
14:46<Nekomaster>but 100-200, thats unrealistic
14:46<planetmaker>not at all
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>the price for doing work is not only the wage that comes out at the other end
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>besides, the hourly rate is not really what counts... what counts is the amount of previous knowledge that goes into the work
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>also, a mentor of mine once said: "the price is not based on the work that it takes, but on what the client is willing to pay for"
14:48<Nekomaster>what ever
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>so you overcharge clients for the "easy" features, while you spend actual work on the strategic core
14:49<planetmaker>of course. If only the amount of actual work would count, every person would get the same per hour.
14:49<planetmaker>But edudation and personal value for the client paying is what make the prices
14:49-!-ragzid [] has quit [Quit: ragzid]
14:50<planetmaker>but I like this line from the posting: "Locate the existing implementation: USD 150 per hour, three hour minimum."
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14:51<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's what i said, the "easy" (meaing "boring") things are heavily overcharged for
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>so you get room for making the "interesting" (but less lucrative/less easy to sell) stuff
14:53<planetmaker>:-) yeah. That's how it works. Makes interesting work to actually work out such work offers.
14:53<planetmaker>How much can I actually charge for A without it being "unrealistic" and so on.
14:53<Yexo>DaleStan: are you already working on nforenum support for newgrf railtypes (or do you know that someone else is already working on it)?
14:54<jordi>catcodec is now in Debian
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14:59<Eddi|zuHause>so, how do i decode what my cat says?
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>wait... that's what the program does, right?
15:00<Nekomaster>Is there any program that converts a regular wave into one that matchs the bit rate, bit depth, and freq. of the waves in the original
15:01<DaleStan>Nekomaster: Yes.
15:01*Alberth was thinking about categories of TeX
15:01<Nekomaster>Is it catcodec? or a differnt program?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>Nekomaster: yes.
15:01<Nekomaster>yes to wat?
15:01<DaleStan>Also, RTFReadme.
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's catcodec or a different program...
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15:02<Nekomaster>nice, very helpful :|
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>why do people have so big problems with simple logic?!?
15:02<Nekomaster>Why do people have problems awnsering simple questions?
15:03<DaleStan>We don't. We answer the question you asked. Why do people have problems asking the question they want answered?
15:03<Nekomaster>Why do people have to be an ass about it?
15:03<DaleStan>Yexo: I'm essentially not working on it now, as I'm pretty sure adding feature 10 support will hide the crash DJ found. I'm also not aware of anyone else working on it.
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>yay, we won.
15:04<Yexo>adding feature 10 support will give the same crash with feature 11
15:04<Yexo>I was able to reproduce that crash before
15:04<Frankr>petert has left
15:05<DaleStan>ITYM "Nekomaster".
15:06<Frankr>or petert he has left actually
15:06<PeterT>Got that
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15:08<Nekomaster>: \
15:09<Nekomaster>You know I really hate lmgtfy
15:09<PeterT>Do I know that?
15:09<Nekomaster>its not like you could just say "Catcodec will covert sounds"
15:10<Yexo>its not like you could search yourself before asking
15:11<Nekomaster>*sigh* here we go again, simple question, simple awnsers, how hard is that? Q "What can convert sound to format?" A " Catcodec"
15:11<Nekomaster>Is something like that so hard?
15:12<Yexo>yes, as I have no idea what catcoded can do exactly
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15:13<Nekomaster>Nor do I
15:13<Yexo>for this one time then:
15:14<Nekomaster>I did once make a newsfx pack but it contained material that i did not own nor could I get explicit permission from the author of the sounds
15:14<DaleStan><Yexo> yes, as I have no idea what catcoded can do exactly <Nekomaster> Nor do I<-- Which is why you ask someone who knows. i.e. Not us.
15:14<DaleStan>The person who wrote TFM and TFReadme is a good guess.
15:15<Nekomaster>Then who does, DaleStan ?
15:15<DaleStan>We don't know that either. Ask someone who does.
15:15<DaleStan>The person who wrote TFM and TFReadme is a good guess.
15:15<Nekomaster>: \
15:15<Nekomaster>Rubidium appers to be the author of the readme
15:17<Nekomaster>Anyways, so im guessing no one has free time that can code or doesn't feel like doing a bit of work for maybe 10-20 minutes for a grf
15:18<PeterT><DaleStan> Which is why you ask someone who knows. i.e. Not us. <-- Eg Google
15:19<PeterT>I can't say this from experience, but I think coding a GRF takes more than 20 minutes
15:19<Nekomaster>Google wont help, Uh, google, wheres someone that can code nfo for someone who can't do it (google) uh..... idk...
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15:19<Nekomaster>thats probably for larger sets
15:19<Frankr>Neko have you even tried
15:20<Nekomaster>its too much for me, I got a headache trying to understand newgrf nfo coding
15:20<Nekomaster>the numbers dont make sense to me
15:20<DaleStan>How long did you spend on getting the realsprites right? That alone takes about a minute each.
15:20<PeterT>That is why you read all of the wiki, and not just some of it
15:20<Nekomaster>Anyways, all the QR TT set is right now is 1 DMU, and 1 EMU, plus their corrisponding passenger cars
15:21<Nekomaster>So, in total 4 Vehicles
15:21<DaleStan>So, 32 sprites minimum, meaning approximately 32 minutes just for the real sprites.
15:21<Nekomaster>theres only 4 sprites for the pax cars
15:21<Nekomaster>and what do you mean for real sprites?
15:21<Nekomaster>I already drew up the sprites
15:21<andythenorth>or there's grfmaker
15:22<DaleStan>The lines in the NFO what aint pseudosprites.
15:22<Nekomaster>Doesn't work for me, it keeps complaining about "Range Check" errors
15:22<DaleStan>Ah. Blessed silence.
15:22<Nekomaster>What ever
15:23<PeterT>DaleStan: You broke it
15:23<Nekomaster>and you made it worse petert
15:23<@peter1138>why is ssh not working? D:
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15:23<DaleStan>OK then. Blessed not-listening-to-a-certain-idiot-blather.
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15:24<DaleStan>/ignore is my friend.
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>people do occasionally find that helpful, indeed ;)
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15:24<PeterT>DaleStan: Hehe, :-)
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>unfortunately, the forum's ignore function is useless...
15:25<DaleStan>It is indeed less useful than it could be.
15:25<@peter1138>DaleStan, oddly enough, it looks like you were having a conversation with yourself...
15:26<DaleStan>I do that occasionally.
15:26<Eddi|zuHause>nothing to see here... move along...
15:26-!-Rhamphoryncus [] has joined #openttd
15:26<DaleStan>... I mean ... um ...
15:26<Nekomaster>Uh.... crap.... Nothing to see here folks.....
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>DaleStan: you need to watch what your alter egos write :p
15:27<@peter1138>oh, how i love thee, giant jacket potato
15:27<@peter1138>2 hours to cook, 5 minutes to eat
15:29<Frankr>lol peter
15:29<Frankr>well worth the wait?
15:29<@peter1138>not particularly environmentally friendly, hehe
15:29<@peter1138>oh yes
15:30<andythenorth>anyone object to new cargo class LMBR for Lumber? Due to some disagreements with ECS...
15:30<andythenorth>No? great
15:30<andythenorth>I'll get on with it then
15:30<Nekomaster>I don't mind
15:30<planetmaker>actually... does there exist means to convert mp3 or ogg into midi?
15:30<andythenorth>Nekomaster as well you shouldn't, given that you don't (yet) code vehicle grfs (but you might!)
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: why a new one?
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15:31<andythenorth>George doesn't want us using WDPR for lumber
15:31<Nekomaster>Well, i agree with coding it that way, only though , as long as lumber doesnt end up in the wrong place
15:31<andythenorth>I think I know why
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and what does PBI use?
15:31<Nekomaster>well, then again, maybe after 1980 lumber could end up in hoppers
15:31<George>andythenorth: Me?
15:31<andythenorth>I'm guessing WDPR can also be sawdust, wood chips etc which are bulk. In FIRS, lumber is not bulk
15:32<andythenorth>George - think was a long time ago, we haven't made the change to FIRS yet
15:32<andythenorth>maybe not though :o
15:32<George>I have nothing against WDPR for lumber as long as the cargo class is the same
15:33<andythenorth>Well FIRS devs want WDPR to be piece goods only, which is different to ECS definition, so I guess we use a new label :)
15:33<Nekomaster>IRL wood gets carried to the saw mill on flat cars, wether its traditional or pulp wood, then it can be cut and the saw dust\wood chips can be sent to a paper mill
15:33<George>andythenorth: In that case - yes
15:33<andythenorth>George: agreed :)
15:33<DaleStan>planetmaker: Not easily. MIDI is "play this note on this instrument for this long"; MP3/OGG is "send this voltage to the speakers at this time".
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: problem with inventing a new label is always vehicle set support
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15:34<andythenorth>PBI uses WDPR
15:34<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: only for those silly sets which ignore cargo classes
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>is it really that problematic when saw mill products get thrown into bulk wagons?
15:35<George>Eddi|zuHause: Using new label is amaller problem than different classes for one label
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but you can't decide the graphics only based on cargo class
15:35<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19189 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: CheckTrackCombination() returns a CommandCost.
15:35<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: do you transport 2x4s in a hopper?
15:35<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: the problem is the xor-ness of a certain refitmask
15:35*PeterT hugs CIA-1
15:35*CIA-1 hugs PeterT
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>PeterT: get a room...
15:36<frosch123>someone got a friend
15:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'm just trying to fix bugs :|
15:36<Nekomaster>Also, do you think that a factory can turn chips into SOLID wood for quality furniture, though they could turn it into partical\chip board
15:36*PeterT kills CIA-1
15:36*CIA-1 dies
15:36<PeterT>problem solved
15:36<andythenorth>how do I ignore Nekomaster for a bit?
15:36<Nekomaster>: (
15:36<planetmaker>DaleStan: yeah, I know. That's my / the problem
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>/ignore Nekomaster
15:37<Nekomaster>: |
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15:37<andythenorth>ok (sorry Nekomaster, you're noisy )
15:37<Nekomaster>Am I really that annoying that every one has to be hostile to me?
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: really, when i weigh the pros and cons of introducing a new cargo label, the cons win
15:38<andythenorth>I would rather not either
15:39<andythenorth>I think we'll just make FIRS consistent with ECS
15:39<andythenorth>and see what happens
15:39<frosch123> <- found the topic
15:40*planetmaker also prefers to rather re-use existing cargo labels than introducing new ones.
15:41*andythenorth agrees
15:41<frosch123>except there is nothing worse than using different classes for the same label
15:41<andythenorth>frosch123: that also sucks
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15:41<Eddi|zuHause>if i were to decide, i would just live with the cargo being carried in the "wrong" wagons...
15:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's nice for you, you don't get the bug reports :P
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's not any different as when someone carries "Food (Milk)" in tank wagons from a fish processing plant...
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15:43<andythenorth>no, it is
15:44<frosch123>or fruit in self-discharging hoppers
15:44<andythenorth>they are clearly carrying....hmm...actually you're right :)
15:44<DJNekkid>peter1138: (or any others) suggestion on Rail Types: if Action0 property 10 is set, then use the "standard" catenary build menu items as well (unless new ones are provided)
15:44<Nekomaster>Well I prefer Wood being on flat beds or gondolas and lumber\wood products being on flatbeds, centerbeams, hoppers or gondolas.
15:46*andythenorth adjusts WDPR in FIRS: sky doesn't fall in
15:46<Nekomaster>Hmm, does paper pulp ever get transported as a cargo?
15:46<Nekomaster>*wood pulp
15:47<planetmaker>[21:41] <frosch123> except there is nothing worse than using different classes for the same label <-- that's, of course, assumed with "re-using existing cargo labels"
15:47<planetmaker>otherwise it doesn't make sense and has similarily weired effects as ISR's re-order or station sprites. Which I still swear at.
15:48<Yexo>DaleStan: I need this patch to be able to compile nforenum on cygwin
15:48*andythenorth does define FRVG as a new label. Sky doesn't fall in
15:49<Yexo>g++ --version returns: g++ (GCC) 4.3.4 20090804 (release) 1
15:50<Yexo>but with this patch it does link to cygwin1.dll
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15:55<CIA-1>OpenTTD: alberth * r19190 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt rail_cmd.cpp): -Add: Improve error message with track building when signals are in the way.
15:56<PeterT>nooo why did you add that?
15:56<Nekomaster>I think that "Impossible track combination" was good enough
15:57<@peter1138>DJNekkid, hmm, maybe... dunno... post it in the thread
15:58*planetmaker translates
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16:02<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the 2.0 thread is useless... people are only short sighted as in "include XYZ patch", nothing remotely visionary
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>except maybe the underground bit
16:03<PeterT>It is really just a smaller version of the OpenTTD Suggestions forum
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16:05*planetmaker agrees with Eddi|zuHause
16:05*andythenorth has been thinking of something for 2.0
16:05<Nekomaster>what, are people already asking for a 2.0?
16:06<PeterT>planning goals for 2.0
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16:09*andythenorth likes the suggestion by frosch123 about removing xor for cargo classes:
16:09<frosch123>it was waiting for a test grf :p
16:11<planetmaker>he... what should the grf look like, frosch123 ?
16:12<frosch123>no idea, i would have to read the topic myself again
16:13<andythenorth>I am reading it and trying to understand, but my brain is fried. I learn about bits, and I forget about bits.
16:13<planetmaker>as I read it, any vehicle newgrf *could* serve which deals with some cargos explicitly
16:14<planetmaker>but... difficult with all those (a and not b) xor c
16:14<planetmaker>thrown on top of a cargo translation table
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16:16<frosch123>planetmaker: actually i would expect a testgrf to use the callback
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16:16<frosch123>(though 14E is likely already used nowadays)
16:18<andythenorth>I could have a go at that some time, but not in the next few weeks
16:18*andythenorth is likely to forget
16:19<planetmaker>he... I didn't notice that there was a test implementation and a callback involved. Must be in another than the linked posting ;-)
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16:20<frosch123>so you read how it is for years?
16:20<Zuu>Buying a train ticket is like a lottery. Shall you buy a too early ticket and hope that the train will be late or buy one which is at the time you want to departure? :-p
16:22<Zuu>Shall you buy a high-speed train ticket and hope that that track is less delayed than the track for the slow-trains? etc. :-)
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16:23<Xaroth>now there's two...
16:24<PeterT>hehe, well
16:25<gr00vy>i need some help with a mainline i built
16:25<gr00vy>2 rails for each direction
16:25<PeterT>sure, gr00vy
16:25<gr00vy>but only one rail is preferred
16:25<gr00vy>the 2nd is nearly never used
16:25<gr00vy>and i don't know why
16:26<gr00vy>any connection to the mainline is built so trains can choose which track to use
16:26<Zuu>Perhaps they have different pentalty to the pathfinder?
16:27<Zuu>The one not used probably have higher penalty than the other even if there is many red signals on the used one.
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16:41<gr00vy>what causes penalty?
16:43<Zuu>turns, hills, (red) signals, stations
16:44<Zuu>backside of path-signals.
16:44<Zuu>Even straight track gives a small penalty.
16:45<Zuu>So that a shorter track will give lower penalty if everything else is the same.
16:45<Zuu>Good night
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19:22<Ammler>Hey, good work Rubidium, didn't expect annoucement of round 2 that fast :-)
19:23<PeterT>shiiiiiiiiit, i missed voting
19:24<__ln__>no shit, obama was elected over a year ago.
19:24<@Rubidium>well, the grades seemed stable the last half week, so I just prepared everything; if the grading made the first 3 change I only needed to copy another set of savegames/screenshots which is almost trivial to do
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19:27<PeterT>Rubidium: Where did you get OpenTTD 1.0.0 from? :-P
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19:32<PeterT>Rubidium: the link to all the save games on your round 2 page is broken
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19:32<PeterT>it is "", and not ""
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20:48<Bluelight>Is this the map size? map_x = 10
20:49<PeterT>Bluelight: for what, where?
20:49<PeterT>that is 2^10
20:49<PeterT>@calc 2**10
20:49<@DorpsGek>PeterT: 1024
20:49<Bluelight>Ok, ty
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20:51<Bluelight>@calc 2**9
20:51<@DorpsGek>Bluelight: 512
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21:34-!-PeterT is "Peter Tarkoy" on #openttd #openttdcoop #openttdcoop.bots @#OpenTTDMegaClan #ottd-rcon @+#petert #tycoon #wwottdgd #openttd.notice @#robobot @#spotify
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---Logclosed Mon Feb 22 00:00:28 2010