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#openttd IRC Logs for 2010-02-22

---Logopened Mon Feb 22 00:00:28 2010
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03:25<roboboy>grr my OpenTTD has stopped building
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03:38<roboboy>Is it a bad idea to rename the folder my OpenTTD source is in?
03:41<Noldo>shouldn't be a problem
03:41<roboboy>hm I renambed the folder my source is in and now it fails to compile
03:41<roboboy>it goes looking for a file under the old foldername
03:43<roboboy>but im on windows?
03:43<Ammler>well, then you lost :-P
03:43<Ammler>no, sorry, no idea there...
03:43<roboboy>It also seems to be a file thats generated on build that teels it to go looking in this location
03:43<ccfreak2k>roboboy, wasn't a problem for me.
03:44<ccfreak2k>But then I switched to a custom static makefile.
03:45<roboboy>c:\Users\Leo.Giusti\Documents\Visual Studio 2008\Projects\OpenTTD\r19145\src\thread\thread_win32.cpp is the path its looking for but the revision should be r19163
03:47<roboboy>if I rename the folder to the old name it starts looking for files under the name it currently has
03:59<roboboy>hm setting it to debug allowed it to compile
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04:03<Zuu>Rubidium: The download links for the savegames of round2 have not been updated for v2 and give a 404.
04:03<Zuu>s/v2/round 2/
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04:17<roboboy>I wonder why ompiling a debug build worked but not a release
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04:20<roboboy>hm I might just create a new directory and start again
04:25<Zuu>MSVC? Did you change the project properties to set library paths?
04:25<Zuu>If you did so, then you probably need to do that for both debug and release.
04:26<Zuu>I usually don't edit project properties for libraries, but instead set those path globally in the MSVC properties.
04:27<roboboy>thats what I did
04:30<roboboy>I changed all my OpenTTD include and library settings to global settings
04:32<roboboy>well I think my new copy of r1613 plus my patches is compiling in release mode
04:33<roboboy>well its further than it as on my other checkout
04:34<roboboy>and it built
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04:39<@Rubidium>Zuu: where?
04:39<@Rubidium>oh, there :)
04:40<Zuu>I guess you found it, but otherwise it is the links to the zip-files.
04:40<@Rubidium>Zuu: should be fixed now
04:43<Zuu>Oh, all the round2 title games are smaller in file size than the current title game.
04:45<planetmaker>he, interesting :-)
04:46<@Rubidium>and likely they're going to be a tiny bit smaller when adding them to trunk
04:48<planetmaker>how would they shrink in size?
04:49<planetmaker>and Zuu asked an interesting question: do you add it to trunk or to the 1.0 branch?
04:49<planetmaker>I would even see reason to only add it to the 1.0 branch: you keep the old savegame loading test savegame
04:50<planetmaker>(what a nice word combination! :-P )
04:50<Zuu>planetmaker: did I?
04:50<Zuu>I mentioned it, but IIRC I didn't do it as a question. :-)
04:50<planetmaker>hm, I though. Or you stated that it would only be the stable branch. ;-)
04:50<planetmaker>whatever :-)
04:51<planetmaker>so I take your savegame is in round two, too, yes? :-)
04:51<planetmaker>which reminds me... I should vote. Now
04:52<@Rubidium>planetmaker: yes, only for the 1.0 branch; the old savegame stays in trunk
04:52<Zuu>Yep, both our savegames somehow got to round 2. :-)
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04:54<planetmaker>Zuu, interestingly those three savegames which I rated highest are now in the final round :-)
04:55<planetmaker>Except my own I didn't know for whom I voted, so :-) congratz
04:56<Zuu>I didn't vote highest for any of the round2-savegames (though all three are >= 7)
04:57<planetmaker>I didn't mean highest = 10. But my top 3.
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05:08<planetmaker>Rubidium, so might be a new competition every year for every release branch?
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05:26<@Rubidium>planetmaker: yup
05:26<Pikka>Ru Ru... Rubidium!
05:27<Pikka>or frosch who isn't here!
05:27<Pikka> many cookies available!
05:28<ccfreak2k>What happened to callbacks 0-35?
05:28<Pikka>they only start from 10, and nothing?
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05:30<Pikka>I guess Eddi would do...
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so...
05:31<Pikka>alright then!
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05:42<@Rubidium>oh, it's already on frosch' todo list :)
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, for a whole year :)
05:44<Eddi|zuHause>this looks fairly easy at first glance, but there's magic with passenger_capacity and mail_capacity going on that i don't understand
05:44<@peter1138>anyone got a copy of doom.wad i can borrow?
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>the only places that need changing are engine.cpp:GetDisplayDefaultCapacity and vehicle.cpp:GetVehicleCapacity
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05:53<@Rubidium>peter1138: google?
05:53<@peter1138>yeah, i found a doom2.wad download :D
05:53<@Rubidium>morning Terkhen
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05:58<roboboy>whats the best way to update a patched copy of the source?
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05:59<@Rubidium>a 3 way merge
06:00<Eddi|zuHause>git is fairly powerful in that way, i believe
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06:07<Eddi|zuHause>*mental note* don't write this-index when you mean this->index
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>causes fairly cryptic error messages ;)
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06:17<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka, Rubidium, peter1138, anybody: does this look proper to you?
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>(compiled, but untested)
06:18<@Rubidium>that fails as a proper URI
06:19<Eddi|zuHause>well, that might be true, but most browsers tend to add http:// automatically ;)
06:20<TrueBrain>it fails as proper httpd (no inline view)
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>that i do not have an influence on :p
06:20<Noldo>isn't that a matter of right mime-type
06:21<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: the first line I look at I see a coding style error :o
06:21<TrueBrain>(missing space after a , :p
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>uhum... right
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>but if i fix that, i also need to fix alignment in surrounding lines, and that adds clutter to the diff...
06:22<TrueBrain>huh? Not really
06:22<TrueBrain>GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_AIRCRAFT_MAIL_CAPACITY,e->u.air.mail_capacity);
06:22<TrueBrain>it simply misses 1 space
06:23<TrueBrain>alignment is lost already
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes, give me two minutes to fix ;)
06:24<TrueBrain>IT IS A SHOW STOPPER! :p
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>should be fixed (reload)
06:25<TrueBrain>can't reload, as it is not inline :p MWHAHAHA :P
06:25*TrueBrain hugs Eddi|zuHause :)
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06:26<TrueBrain>yeah for coding style! :)
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>then set up your browser correctly :p
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06:41<TrueBrain>I hate crappy music on the radio
06:41<TrueBrain>I want a 'skip-to-next' on it
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>i know that problem!
06:44<SirSquidness>It happens to me all the time when I'm watching TV shows.
06:46<@peter1138>how many grfs?
06:46<Pikka>you know, I'm not sure I've ever seen a definitive answer on this problem from the devs... it's come up several times and is caused by loading too many grfs/sprites...
06:46<Pikka>indeed :)
06:46<@peter1138>there is, in theory, no sprite limit
06:46<Pikka>over 9000, I think
06:47<@peter1138>there is, but it's unfeasibly high
06:47<Pikka>how high is unfeasably high?
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>people will hit the file limit before hitting the sprite limit
06:47<Eddi|zuHause>~2^31, probably
06:48<Pikka>so what causes the error?
06:51<@peter1138>i think it's 2^24 actually
06:51<@peter1138>still plenty
06:52<@peter1138>as for the problem, no idea, i don't think anyone's ever reported it
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06:58<Pikka>peter1138: because it's only encountered by idiots who try to load every single grf they possibly can?
06:59<Pikka>there have been half a dozen threads about it at various times, and it doesn't seem to be caused by any particular grf...
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07:01<@peter1138>that's not reported though
07:01<Pikka>peter1138: because people who try to load every grf can't file proper bug reports, and no-one else cares enough to? *shrugs* :)
07:01<@peter1138>well then :)
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07:28<Eddi|zuHause>so. Pikka, did you find the above patch helpful?
07:29<planetmaker>oh hey, a Pikka ! :-)
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07:33<Pikka>a patch, a patch! :o
07:34<Eddi|zuHause>is that an answer?
07:36<Pikka>well... yes, thankyou. :) but the question is whether it can make it into 1.0.0, and people will stop asking me why their aircraft capacity changes on refit... ;)
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, Higher Powers (tm) have to decide that ;)
07:37*Pikka glares accusingly and pleadingly at Rubidium
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07:38<Eddi|zuHause>but i have to rely on your word that it actually does what it should do
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07:48<Pikka>oh. um...
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08:54<Priski>btw does anyone know any wordchecker when deciding new name fro app/game/etc you don't accidentally pick some word that might mean something embarassing in some foreign country
08:56<Zuu>Eh, any word could have an embarassing meaning in another language. There are too many languages to care about that.
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08:58<Priski>well lets just count out the million african dialects :)
09:03<Priski>maybe ill just pick 'project name' and rename when it's ready to be published
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09:05<Eddi|zuHause>they had this british theatre play with the harry potter guy, and it had a horse named "Trojan" in it, which was fine in britain, but when they wanted to show it in the USA, they had to change the name :p
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>(apparently, "Trojan" is a brand of condoms in the USA)
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09:08<Eddi|zuHause>so... the "embarrasing name" doesn't even work in english-english...
09:08<Priski>I wouldn't consider that a embarassing
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>when "everyone starts giggling when hearing the name" does not run under "embarrasing", then i don't know...
09:09<Priski>that would suggest trademark issue
09:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19191 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move AirportTileSpec to newgrf_airporttiles.h
09:10<Priski>Eddi|zuHause: trojan was then almost same to condoms in US what google is to search engines?
09:10<Priski>then I would understand
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'm an outsider, but that's how i understood the issue...
09:11<Priski>"well hello there..."
09:12<@Belugas>mister Priski, i salute ya
09:12<Priski>didn't pepsi just changed their name en spain?
09:13<Priski>to pesi
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't heard that...
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09:13<Eddi|zuHause>although coca cola is the dominating brand in europe anyway
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09:14<__ln__>Priski: so they say
09:14<Priski>"Recognizing that its name is hard to pronounce in some countries, Pepsi is going by the name Pecsi in Argentina and Pesi in Spain. Ads show Spanish soccer star Fernando Torres unable to pronounce "Pepsi" while making a commercial and finally ripping the letter "p" from a Pepsi sign and telling the director the pronunciation is "Pesi" in his neighborhood."
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09:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19192 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.cpp newgrf_airporttiles.h): -Fix (r19191): forgot to svn add the new file
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, some languages have trouble pronouncing multiple consonants... that's similar to asian people unable to distinguish l and r
09:15<Priski>it's great that coca cola still has the "coca" in it despite brands history :)
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19193 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: increase the maximum number of airport tiles to 256 and introduce AirportTileOverrideManager
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19194 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: action 0/1/2/3 support for newgrf airporttiles
09:16<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19195 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: actually draw newgrf airport tiles
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19196 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp table/airporttiles.h): -Codechange: change the airport tile animation info so it works just like for industry tiles
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19197 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: introduce animation callbacks for airport tiles
09:17<Priski>I guess best way is to make it simple as possible, like no consonants next to each other etc
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19198 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: store the size of stations in savegames
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09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19199 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add a 'name'-property to airport tiles
09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19200 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): -Doc: update the map array documentation
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09:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19201 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: airport tiles now have 4 random bits per tile.
09:18*Eddi|zuHause kicks CIA-1
09:19<Priski>wtf :D
09:20<planetmaker>NewGRF airports :-)
09:20<Yexo>not yet
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: wrong
09:20<Yexo>only airport tiles
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>NewGRF airporttiles
09:20<planetmaker>he :-)
09:21<planetmaker>I wasn't done reading yet ;-)
09:21*roboboy should go to bed
09:21*roboboy needs a new power suply for his old p2 machine
09:22<Priski>no bed time yet
09:22<Priski>we live here in the GMT timezone
09:22<roboboy>its 1:22 AM here
09:22<Priski>thats, err, around americas?
09:23<Priski>ah australia?
09:24<Priski>must be hard when everything is upside down and inside out there :>
09:25*roboboy goes on an upside down and inside out rampage
09:25<Priski>southern hemisphere would be nice now, it just snows and snows here :(
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>Priski: not if you are born there...
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09:25<Eddi|zuHause>thought experiment: assume you have a drug that switches the perception of red and green in your eyes
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>if you give that drug to an adult, he'll be very confused
09:26<Priski>that would be so cool
09:26<Priski>I want that :D
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>but if you give that drug to a toddler, that child will learn "red is the colour of blood, and green is the colour of grass"
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>and just go with that
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>it'll never know that it ever got switched
09:26<Priski>but Eddi|zuHause I know what you mean, that was just lame ass joke :)
09:26<SirSquidness>01:21:59 * roboboy needs a new power suply for his old p2 machine <-- it would be cheaper to replace the entire PC than to just replace the power supply... almost
09:27<roboboy>I can get a low powered PS for $30 AUD
09:27<SirSquidness>If it's a P2, it's likely to be an old AT PSU?
09:27<SirSquidness>I haven't seen them around the shops for a while
09:27<roboboy>or there abouts
09:28<roboboy>I think its a Micro ATX
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>AT boards have a single row of power supply pins, ATX have a double row
09:37<Priski>only intresting thing about winter olympics is hockey and cannot even watch that since ridicilous times they play it
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>that's what they have invented recording for...
09:38<Priski>why earth would just be flat
09:38<Priski>Eddi|zuHause: well its hard not get the score before you can watch it
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen any (ice-)hockey scores in years...
09:39<Priski>and fin vs swe, they could made so that it would be played around midnight here but nooo....
09:40<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r19202 /trunk/bin/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r19181): some translations were wrong
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10:06<Priski>oh those russian truck drivers
10:09<Priski>there is given warning about slippery road, then comes russian with big lorry drunk as hell and drives wrong side of road with big lorry
10:10<Priski>on a wide busy 4 lane in middle of day
10:12<@SmatZ>why do you think he was drunk?
10:12<Priski>because police took the test and in it showed 0.245%
10:13<Priski>I cant even walk straight when I get that drunk...
10:13<@SmatZ>that's a LOT :)
10:13<@SmatZ>obviously you don't have to walk when you are driving
10:14<Priski>well no
10:14<Priski>4 cars had to steer into ditch to safety but no big accidents
10:14<@SmatZ>luckily :)
10:16<Priski>When I was yougn and could not get boose legally sometimes we went to russian truck drivers to buy some vodka
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10:17<Priski>you just walk up to them and ask for vodka, 1/3 of drivers would sell it, and almost half the price than legally
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10:47<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of aircraft capacity:
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11:02<Priski>hmm, all cancelled?
11:02<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r19203 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airporttiles.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: silence some gcc warnings
11:03<Priski>don't speak deutchlanddialect but that I figured
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>when i read "to silence" i always get an image of a gun and a pillow...
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>Priski: well, the main gist is that the Lufthansa pilots are on strike, so in this parody, "Luft" [=air] has been replaced by "Boden" [=ground]
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11:06<Nite_Owl>Hello all
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>Priski: the other stuff plays on bad service, requiring patience and "Going by train is also fun" :p
11:08<Priski>in finland national rail company has been kinda like that for a while, because of snow
11:08<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19204 /trunk/src/table/airporttiles.h: -Fix (r1919x): airport tiles without animation had an incomplete contructor
11:09<Priski>CEO just said that publicly "don't ride trains" couple days ago
11:09<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19205 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: move AirportSpec to newgrf_airport.h/cpp
11:10<Priski>it's pretty ridicilous since everything else seems to work, it is said to be only company in finland that winter comes by suprise every year
11:11<Priski>seems like transport is jammed everywhere in EU in some form nowadays
11:13<Priski>my brother works at maintaining rail tracks, he said he's been gone to work 5-6am to work and comes back at 8pm to sleep at home every night for while now
11:14<Priski>said only thing he does at home is come to sleep and leave for work in morning
11:16<Priski>that just gave me an idea, summer/winter mod for OTTD? :D
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11:17<Eddi|zuHause>already implemented, GRFs can modify snow line depending on date
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11:17<Priski>didn't know that
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>and industries can change production depending on above/below snow line
11:18<Priski>do GRFs can modify maintenance cost dynamically also?
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>not sure about that
11:18<Priski>I know that they can modify some base values
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>i think i have seen varation depending on running/waiting in station, not sure which other variables are available
11:19<Priski>I use one that increases cost of terrain modifying so much that it does actually make sense to use bridges and make detours
11:20<Priski>makes game much more fun that way IMO
11:20<Priski>otherwise it's way too easy on most of the maps
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19206 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add: concept of fallback base sets, i.e. do not automatically load the NoMusic/NoSound sets when there is another set
11:24<CIA-1>OpenTTD: smatz * r19207 /trunk/src/misc/str.hpp: -Fix (r19127): compilation was broken for gcc 3.3
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11:33<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r19208 /trunk/src/newgrf_airporttiles.cpp: -Codechange: fix a gcc warning
11:38<Priski>"he tried to slide in on both occasions"
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12:59<Priski>hmm quess I have to learn yet another new language; LINQ :P
13:00<u1>I kinda wish i could contribute to the project
13:00<u1>dont have any porgramingskills
13:00<u1>ive spent sooo many hours with ottd
13:00<@Rubidium>update the wiki?
13:00<Priski>well anyone can surely do that
13:01<u1>what needs updating?
13:01-!-u1 is now known as U1
13:02<@Rubidium>the part about the configuration settings; what everything means, what the implications are etc.
13:02<U1>well ill see what I can do
13:02<U1>ill look in to it Rubidium
13:03<Priski>new pics from game since it now has OpenGFX? or does 1.0 eventually have OpenGFX as default grephics set?
13:03<U1>dont think it does
13:04<U1>theres an option for it in the installation if i remember correctly
13:04<U1>atleast with the win installer
13:05<Priski>didn't jump to 1.0.0 meant that finally OTTD is complete standalone, without need of external grfx from old TTD
13:05<U1>if you go with the ogfx sure
13:06<U1>and the osfx
13:06<U1>i still prefer the old one tho :P
13:07<U1>makes me remember the good old days when the game was new
13:08<Priski>I didn't like OGFX at first but now I like it, it has more 'cleaner' look
13:15<SpComb^>I'm considering sticking to principles and never playing OpenGFX :P
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13:41<aber>What build system is used to create the makefiles? Gnu Build System, autoconf? I have some trouble to track the files down...
13:42<Yexo>for openttd? a custom configure file
13:42<Yexo>just run ./configure
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r19209 /trunk/src/lang/ (16 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changes by josesun
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 6 changes by habell
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:51<aber>"custom"? This is done the hard way and handmade? That would explain the comments inside this files...
13:52<@Rubidium>aber: yes, autoconf is annoying
13:52<@Rubidium>and slow, horribly slow :(
13:54<aber>Ever heard from cmake?
13:54<planetmaker>aber, ever heart of the --help option ;-)
13:54<aber>There is something from with loading libraries in OS X
13:55<planetmaker>./configure --help
13:55<planetmaker>it's a universal configure file
13:55<aber>There is something wrong with loading libraries in OS X
13:55<planetmaker>*something* cannot be fixed nor explained
13:56<@Rubidium>planetmaker: it's already fixed; it's unsupported thus no guarantees it works
13:56<dihedral>Rubidium, i have a mac i don't use, you can come and pick it up if you like :-D
13:57<frosch123>does it include some spirit?
13:57<frosch123>and a lighter?
13:58<+glx>[19:54:05] <aber> Ever heard from cmake? <-- yes worse than autoconf for me
13:59<@Rubidium>dihedral: to do WHAT with it?
14:00<@Rubidium>I guess beagling is a something I would do with it
14:03<Yexo>planetmaker: I know you created the ttdpatch wiki pages for newgrf railtypes, can you help me creating them for newgrf airporttiles too? (feature 11)
14:03<Yexo>addnig the content is no problem, but I'm not sure how to add new pages
14:04<planetmaker>Yexo, I cannot add new pages, too. It needs DaleStan to add them.
14:05<dihedral>Rubidium, one of your replies to a thread emphasizes the fact that you do not yourself have a mac to fix the bugs and test etc. :-P
14:05<planetmaker>Looking at it... it's pretty similar to IndustryTiles?
14:05<planetmaker>Except action0 and VarAction2AirportTiles I guess
14:05<Yexo>normal action 2 is the same
14:05<Yexo>so yes, only action 0 and varaction 2
14:05<@Rubidium>dihedral: many others that I can't be bothered to become the OS X maintainer
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14:06<planetmaker>Yexo, should the same be requested for Airports at the same time?
14:06<Yexo>there are alraedy pages for airports
14:06<planetmaker>And why is no one of the OpenTTD devs a newgrf wiki admin :S
14:06<Yexo>at least some pages
14:07<Yexo>oh, there aren't actually
14:07<planetmaker>Well. Actually: we can create the pages. We cannot add them to the TOC
14:07<Yexo>so yes, that might be a good idea
14:07<planetmaker>It just needs a link (or URL-editing) to start a new page
14:09<planetmaker>I'll start with action0
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14:22<planetmaker>Yexo, concerning the callback flags and animation triggers: what is already decided there wrt their values (actions 0E and 11)?
14:23<sparr>there is a feature request open for better competing station rating / cargo distribution. i am submitting a patch to fix a bug in the current calculation. should i file a new bug (instead of feature request), or add it to the feature request?
14:23<Yexo>planetmaker: see
14:24<planetmaker>thanks :-)
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14:31<planetmaker> <-- Yexo
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14:36<dihedral>since when is darkvater back in the forums? :-P
14:36<frosch123> <- Eddi|zuHause: you missed one hunk
14:36<@Rubidium>since 22-02-2010 20:03:17 ?
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14:41<Yexo>thanks planetmaker
14:41<Yexo>I'll check it later, there is something wrong :(
14:41<Yexo>Please note that callback 153 doesn't have a bit here. To use callback 153, simply set the wanted bits in property 11 and it will work as intended. <- under the callback flags
14:41<Yexo>but the table lists bit 0 as bit for cb 153
14:42<planetmaker>eh... right
14:42<Yexo>Animation triggers via callback 153 (11) <- that should be 152
14:42<Yexo>so also "callback 152 doesn't have a bit here..."
14:43<Yexo>that wasn't documented at all in my forum post
14:43<planetmaker>it wasn't. But I failed at translating the callbacks ;-)
14:45<frosch123>planetmaker: never write "unused", always "reserved" :)
14:45<planetmaker>ok, I'll change that then in this go, too ;-)
14:45<sparr>two-line fix for a bug in affecting cargo splitting between stations in competition games...
14:46<PeterT>Do you think they're not going to see it unless you spam it in here? :-P
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14:46<sparr>PeterT: probably not, but that's me being jaded over bug handling
14:48<Yexo>bug handling is easy: chose one of: * bug->feature request and forget about it, * close as "works as intended", * blame mac osx
14:49<sparr>PeterT: also, my thought is that most people aware of the issue think it's a long term feature request, not realizing there's a small bug in the code that is exacerbating the deficiencies in the intended algorithm
14:49<Yexo>or they are aware of the issue and think it works as it should
14:49<planetmaker>Yexo, the callbacks still need implementation, right?
14:50<planetmaker>hm... "callbacks for animation"... maybe there ;-)
14:50<Yexo>planetmaker: no, they're already implemented (except the "callback xx")
14:50<sparr>that is, some people think 100%/99% rating causing a 66%/33% split is unfair. arguing against that is hard, and causes feature request level bugs. but there is a bug that causes the split to be 66%/16%, which makes the problem appear bigger than it really is
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14:51<sparr>i happen to agree on that first part, but it's outside the scope of getting the bug fixed
14:54<Hirundo>Or 'they' prefer a patch that adheres to the coding style
14:58<sparr>Hirundo: link?
14:58<Hirundo>Check the wiki
14:58<sparr>I'm not familiar with openttd's specific style. For such a small change it seems trivial to fix if you point it out to me.
14:58<sparr>ok, thanks
14:59<frosch123>or they consider it normal that if you are constantly spammed by the advertisements of two companies, you decide for none
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15:08<sparr>frosch123: ha
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15:08<sparr>frosch123: you assume some level of advertising with no advertising campaign?
15:09<sparr>Hirundo: the problem is ">>" vs " >> "?
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15:10<planetmaker>hmpf. Newgrf wiki gong gaga
15:10<sparr>thanks for the tip
15:11<frosch123>planetmaker: go to the forum and suggest to port it to mediawiki :)
15:11<planetmaker>Nah, I like my head where it is now
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15:23<sparr>Yexo: I think there's a difference in "players disagree with the design" and "the implementation differs from the design"
15:24<Yexo>sparr: I completely agree
15:25<Yexo>however I doubt you can show any design that says the cargo distribution to stations should behave in another way then it does now
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15:26<sparr>the comments seem, to my reasonably practiced eye, to indicate that the penalty is meant to be applied to the split of available cargo between the two stations
15:26<sparr>it being applied again later looks like an oversight on the part of the responsible coder
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15:28<sparr>i admit they aren't entirely clear
15:28<Yexo>the code has been like this since r1 (in this svn repo), so I'm wondering how plain ttd handles this case
15:28<Yexo>if ttd handles this the same, then the comments are in no way a reference to the design
15:28<sparr>an interesting question. is anyone here able and willing to test in ttd?
15:30<sparr>it should be easy to test. build two stations with the same <100% rating and consistent service, see if the % transferred for the industry matches the ratings to within 2%, or differs by 5-10%
15:30<Yexo>openttd 0.1.4 (earliest source I could find) already works this way
15:31<sparr>i would expect it's been this way since the code was first written
15:31<frosch123>0.1 also does
15:31*sparr *acquires* a copy of TTD to test
15:32*SmatZ is happy sparr does that instead of him ;)
15:32<PeterT>SmatZ: Hello
15:32<@SmatZ>hello PeterT :)
15:32<PeterT>I've been looking for you
15:32<sparr>so much for not needing to get TTD now that opengfx is ready :)
15:33<PeterT>Do you have a copy of the DoCommand log patch used at #openttdcoop available for me to use?
15:33<PeterT>if so, I would be most grateful
15:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r19214 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
15:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Add: NoSound, just like NoMusic; makes installation easier
15:33<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update: translation of NoSound and other sets
15:36<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19215 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp order_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Add Order::GetLocation() to deduplicate code.
15:42<sparr>waiting for my test station ratings to stabilize
15:42<sparr>i had forgotten how much UI improvement ottd has over ttd
15:43<sparr>two stations stable at 80%, waiting one month for the industry % transported to catch up
15:44<andythenorth>hi hi
15:45<sparr>in openttd 80%:80% ratings results in goods split 66%:33% and goods actually moved as 52%:13% (total 65%)
15:46<sparr>in ttd the total moved is 79%, which is within rounding error of 80%, imo
15:49<sparr>doublechecking in openttd to make sure my math is right
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15:53<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19216 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Feature: Scroll to current order destination when ctrl+clicking the start/stop bar.
15:54<sparr>in openttd i see 82%:82% ratings resulting in 71% transported
15:54<sparr>so i THINK openttd behavior differs from ttd behavior here
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15:55<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19217 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Codechange: Unify punctuation marks.
16:01*planetmaker Ctrl+clicks on frosch123 's start/stop bar
16:02<planetmaker>hm... no scroll, no quak... outside OpenTTD :-P
16:03<sparr>with ratings 63%:55%, the distribution of moved goods seems to be about 5:1, which disagrees with openttd and any other algorithm i can think of
16:03<sparr>in ttd, that is
16:03<frosch123>maybe next order is nearest depot
16:04<PeterT>Thanks frosch123, that's a neat feature
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16:04<frosch123>if someone asks whether it will be backported to 1.0, i will revert it :p
16:05<sparr>backported to a version that's not released yet? was 1.0 forked already?
16:06<frosch123>rc's are from branches in ottd context
16:06<sparr>ahh, k
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16:16<aber>Okay, I resolved one of the mac library problems. Hopefully not the one, that is already resolved. So, probably someone can review what i did and consider to merge it into the trunk.
16:21<aber>Should i append this to the bug tracker?
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16:25<sparr>Yexo: so, differening from TTD is a significant factor?
16:27<Yexo><sparr> with ratings 63%:55%, the distribution of moved goods seems to be about 5:1, which disagrees with openttd and any other algorithm i can think of <- how does openttd behave with 63%:55% ratings?
16:27<sparr>harder to duplicate
16:27<Yexo>sparr: no, but if openttd behaves the same as ttd then it the comments would be wrong and it'd behave "as designed", at least for this code
16:27<sparr>hmm, perhaps i was unclear
16:28<sparr>there are two issues here
16:28<sparr>first, how the available goods are split between the stations. that may or may not be fair, and may or may not match ttd. that is a more debate-worthy topic and much harder to test
16:29<sparr>second is how many goods are wasted by each station after the split happens. this is the area i am investigating, and where i see the probably-bug in the openttd code and the difference in ttd and openttd behavior
16:31<sparr>this being my first openttd patch, i opt to limit the scope to the easier problem :)
16:31<sparr>this bug, if it is a bug, skews discussion of the first issue by making the current distribution method appear to be less fair than it was meant to be
16:32<frosch123>so, try to locate the code in the ttd executible
16:33<sparr>that is far beyond my skills
16:34<sparr>if such was done to create the openttd code (ignoring the copyright implications), the possible origin of the bug is more clear
16:34<sparr>a simple variable transposition
16:34<sparr>frosch123: you realize that looking at the executable for ttd taints future contributions to openttd?
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16:35<ccfreak2k>Have someone look for you.
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16:36<ccfreak2k>Someone not intent on making patches.
16:38<frosch123>fine, then i will continue looking at ttdp, to improve compatibility
16:38<sparr>that doesn't really help
16:39<sparr>the folks over in #winehq on freenode can give you a more thorough briefing on the problems with having people look at the original binaries
16:39<Yexo>you do realize that in case of openttd that doesn't matter much?
16:40<sparr>much, sure.
16:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r19218 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp newgrf.cpp newgrf_properties.h vehicle.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add CB36 support for aircraft properties 0F and 11. (Eddi)
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17:12<@Belugas>night all
17:12<PeterT>good night Belugas
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17:14<@SmatZ>PeterT: yes :)
17:14<PeterT>what is it called bb?
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17:14<@SmatZ>big brother :-p
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17:29<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> <- Eddi|zuHause: you missed one hunk <-- aha, alright... but it's not a functional change ;)
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>hm, of course i missed him...
17:40<sparr>some forumgoers seem unhappy at posting in old threads
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18:11<Eddi|zuHause># Und Gott sprach zu der Menge:
18:11<Eddi|zuHause># IHR SEID SO LEISE
18:14<OwenS> is now a redirect to
18:14<OwenS>An era has closed
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18:19<OwenS>The unfortunate side effect of the redirect is I will never be able to find information there again
18:19<OwenS>Because Oracle's site organization is terrible
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember ever being to either of these sites, except for downloading java
18:20<OwenS>I work on some BerkelyDB based code
18:20<OwenS>Navigating Oracle's site is a nightmare
18:22<OwenS>On the other hand, I'm glad the acquisition went ahead before all the regulatory burden killed Sun completely
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18:27<__ln__>-24 °C
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>not even my freezer has that...
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18:29<Eddi|zuHause># Chicks were born to give ya fever
18:29<Eddi|zuHause># Be it fahrenheit or centigrade
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19:16<Nite_Owl>Hello all
19:24<PeterT>SmatZ: So, I see that the Big Brother patch implements a GUI of sorts. Does it actually log anything to file?
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19:26<ccfreak2k>Big Brother patch?
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19:27<PeterT>Oh, wait
19:27<PeterT>I'm looking at bb_r19111.diff
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19:30<ccfreak2k>Smatz A and Smatz 1.
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20:54<CrazySpai>Is #openttd open about answering questions?
20:54<PeterT>And development talk
20:55<CrazySpai>Well, my question is, is there a way to -not- have the game end.
20:55<CrazySpai>(Server not single player)
20:55<PeterT>Are you the server, or the client?
20:55<CrazySpai>I'm both?
20:55<PeterT>What do you mean by "end"?
20:56<CrazySpai>The game ends at 2050 correct?
20:56<CrazySpai>I thought it did.
20:56<PeterT>Well, it "ends", but it doesn't end.
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20:56<CrazySpai>So.. the game doesn't reset?
20:56<PeterT>it says it's over, but you can continue playing
20:56<PeterT>the server decides when the game resets
20:56<CrazySpai>Alright, in that case, thank you very much :D
20:57<PeterT>You're welcome
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21:05<Eddi|zuHause>there is a setting "restart_date" or something
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>you can set that to year 5.000.000
21:06<PeterT>CrazySpai: restart_game_year
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23:47<CrazySpai>Is there a way to unlock bigger airports?
23:52<FauxFaux>Time heals all desires for bigger airports.
23:52<CrazySpai>and thanks Eddi|zuHause for the tip.
23:53<CrazySpai>I'm gonna head to bed, I save the server in case my company clear command of 0 doesn't work ;)
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 23 00:00:30 2010